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Pagan Hibernia
02-07-2019, 10:15 AM
What happens now to the supporters shareholding vehicle and the agreement to purchase newly issued shares in the club as and when they can afford them?

Antifa Hibs
02-07-2019, 10:19 AM
What happens now to the supporters shareholding vehicle and the agreement to purchase newly issued shares in the club as and when they can afford them?

No idea but with the mortgage cleared I'm inclined now more than ever to restart my donation as i'm alot more satisfied it won't be going to debt and will go straight to the club.

Be good to have some clarity on the situation and maybe a perfect time for a relaunch?

Pretty Boy
02-07-2019, 10:49 AM
HSL email sent to members:


Today's Club Announcement
Following some weeks of speculation the Club have today made the following statement.

I thought it would be helpful to make a brief statement to avoid unnecessary further speculation surrounding our position in relation to these events.

I was introduced to Ron Gordon last night and I am delighted to confirm what you will no doubt hear from many others over the coming weeks and months. I was hugely impressed by his passion and above all is ambition for our Club. He was fully aware of the work that we are doing and he impressed upon me his desire that we continue to work together going forward. To this end we have agreed to meet later in the week to develop things further. While we are not in a position to answer any questions at the moment it is clear that Ron sees Hibernian Supporters as an important element in his plans for exciting and hopefully successful times ahead.


James Adie
Chairman

Bostonhibby
02-07-2019, 11:28 AM
It would be a good time to get that meaningful shareholding and a proper seat on the board.

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NAE NOOKIE
02-07-2019, 11:49 AM
This is not a pop at our new owner, but now that Hibs are no longer in the hands of STF and RP two people who whatever they were we always knew had the best interests of the club at heart it has become imperative that enough of Hibs is in the hands of the fans that we can always scupper the best efforts of shysters and carpetbaggers.

HSL has all of a sudden become very very important.

PaulSmith
02-07-2019, 12:00 PM
This is not a pop at our new owner, but now that Hibs are no longer in the hands of STF and RP two people who whatever they were we always knew had the best interests of the club at heart it has become imperative that enough of Hibs is in the hands of the fans that we can always scupper the best efforts of shysters and carpetbaggers.

HSL has all of a sudden become very very important.

Absolutely, if nothing else it will remove any comment that funds are diverted from HSL to RP/STF so we should see an uptake


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Oscar T Grouch
02-07-2019, 12:04 PM
I canít imagine that HSL will have the same goals now. I have a feeling it may change into an additional funding stream for the manager rather than a vehicle to buy shares in the club. Whilst we donít actually know I canít imagine the new owner will want his newly acquired shares being diluted down to 49%. The email we got is ambiguous because HSL donít know whatís happening, it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

Pagan Hibernia
02-07-2019, 12:59 PM
I canít imagine that HSL will have the same goals now. I have a feeling it may change into an additional funding stream for the manager rather than a vehicle to buy shares in the club. Whilst we donít actually know I canít imagine the new owner will want his newly acquired shares being diluted down to 49%. The email we got is ambiguous because HSL donít know whatís happening, it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

If thatís the case itíll probably be the end of my donations. My ambition for HSL is that it got that permanent 25% blocking stake.

still, Iíll wait to hear more.

Speedway
02-07-2019, 01:10 PM
I imagine HSL's work just became a lot more important.

Oscar T Grouch
02-07-2019, 01:23 PM
If thatís the case itíll probably be the end of my donations. My ambition for HSL is that it got that permanent 25% blocking stake.

still, Iíll wait to hear more.

If the money is guaranteed to go to the manager then I would keep up my payments. HSL will end up with a place on the board, but I think the 51% fan owned target may change. We just need to wait and see.

NAE NOOKIE
02-07-2019, 01:27 PM
I canít imagine that HSL will have the same goals now. I have a feeling it may change into an additional funding stream for the manager rather than a vehicle to buy shares in the club. Whilst we donít actually know I canít imagine the new owner will want his newly acquired shares being diluted down to 49%. The email we got is ambiguous because HSL donít know whatís happening, it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

There's no indication that HSL will be blocked from buying shares in the club. But if this does mean the 51% fan ownership plan is out the window I for one wont be too disappointed Ö. After initial enthusiasm I came to the conclusion that such a move can only really be successful for clubs with huge fan bases in huge leagues with huge commercial potential like Germany. In Scotland an owner with majority control and hopefully deep pockets is of far more value.

But as I said, that probably actually increases the need for fans to have enough control that they can act as a firewall that scuppers asset strippers Ö hopefully that's exactly where Hibs will end up.

wookie70
02-07-2019, 02:17 PM
There's no indication that HSL will be blocked from buying shares in the club. But if this does mean the 51% fan ownership plan is out the window I for one wont be too disappointed Ö.

Was 51% one of the aims. It only says to achieve a meaningful share on their about page

Since452
02-07-2019, 02:22 PM
Hopefully this now helps to clarify that any donations don't go towards any debt (not that it ever did).

JohnMcM
02-07-2019, 03:08 PM
Hopefully this now helps to clarify that any donations don't go towards any debt (not that it ever did).

I never did nor could begin to believe any of our donations were being used to pay off debt.

We were told by all concerned at the time the money would go the manager's fund.

There is no way our club would lie to us.

Under the stewardship of STF, RP and LD, that was and still is an unthinkable thing to me.

:flag:

Peevemor
02-07-2019, 03:14 PM
I never did nor could begin to believe any of our donations were being used to pay off debt.

We were told by all concerned at the time the money would go the manager's fund.

There is no way our club would lie to us.

Under the stewardship of STF, RP and LD, that was and still is an unthinkable thing to me.

:flag:

Hibs have bills to pay like everyone else. On top of the £500k per year debt repayment, there are all the usual overheads including payment of non-playing staff. What was left went to the football budget.

HSL means there's more cash coming into the club, meaning there's more left over to go to the football budget.

It's no more complicated than that.

1875STEVE
02-07-2019, 03:14 PM
I've a feeling it will keep going until we get 25%

20% gets us a board member and 25% gets us a "meaningful say".

I think it will keep going until 25% then change into a "Managers transfer fund".

hibbydad
02-07-2019, 03:15 PM
Peevmor no more debt repayments

Peevemor
02-07-2019, 03:19 PM
Peevmor no more debt repayments

Exactly, so £500k pa more for the football budget. What's not to like?

JohnMcM
02-07-2019, 03:39 PM
Hibs have bills to pay like everyone else. On top of the £500k per year debt repayment, there are all the usual overheads including payment of non-playing staff. What was left went to the football budget.

HSL means there's more cash coming into the club, meaning there's more left over to go to the football budget.

It's no more complicated than that.

Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not Peevemor?

Peevemor
02-07-2019, 03:52 PM
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not Peevemor?

I am.

Speedway
02-07-2019, 04:28 PM
I've a feeling it will keep going until we get 25%

20% gets us a board member and 25% gets us a "meaningful say".

I think it will keep going until 25% then change into a "Managers transfer fund".

That what it USED to get us.

We don't know if RG wants to keep it that way or not yet.

lord bunberry
02-07-2019, 04:29 PM
I thought HSL were buying STFís shares. If heís just sold them, then whoís shares will they be buying? I think this will be the end for HSL in its current form, and it will move to a different model.

1875STEVE
02-07-2019, 04:32 PM
That what it USED to get us.

We don't know if RG wants to keep it that way or not yet.

Yeah but it's meant to keep going until we get to 51%, what im saying is, I think it will continue as it is until we hit 25%, then it will change to a "boost the transfer fund" with no more shares being bought.

JohnMcM
02-07-2019, 04:37 PM
I am.

:greengrin

Peevemor
02-07-2019, 04:41 PM
I thought HSL were buying STFís shares. If heís just sold them, then whoís shares will they be buying? I think this will be the end for HSL in its current form, and it will move to a different model.HSL are/were buying newly created shares, with each batch of shares bought effectively diluting STF's overall percentage. I see no reason why Ron Gordon will change this, though he might limit the fan ownership part to 49 instead of 51%. We're a few years away from that anyway.

Speedway
02-07-2019, 04:43 PM
Yeah but it's meant to keep going until we get to 51%, what im saying is, I think it will continue as it is until we hit 25%, then it will change to a "boost the transfer fund" with no more shares being bought.

Indeed but it's possible that RG could say that he's not interested in diluting his shareholding especially since he just bought it.

1875STEVE
02-07-2019, 04:46 PM
Indeed but it's possible that RG could say that he's not interested in diluting his shareholding especially since he just bought it.

Of course.

It could be the end of HSL.

However the HSL statement seems to suggest that he wants to work with them, I think he will let it keep going until a certain point as it is, then it'l change.

IMO he won't let it get past 25%.

cabbageandribs1875
02-07-2019, 04:47 PM
i thought HSL were just wanting/needing to acquire 26%

Speedway
02-07-2019, 04:50 PM
Of course.

It could be the end of HSL.

However the HSL statement seems to suggest that he wants to work with them, I think he will let it keep going until a certain point as it is, then it'l change.

IMO he won't let it get past 25%.

That could well be the case.

Speaking of cases, I think that the case for the HSL message is stronger in light of today's news than it has ever been.

1875STEVE
02-07-2019, 04:51 PM
i thought HSL were just wanting/needing to acquire 26%

Think the long term was 51%

20% to get someone on the board, 25% to have a big say.

They must be close to 20% now, they were sitting at 18.81% and have just iirc bought £70,000 worth of shares due to the initative with the strip. They normally pay in about £14,000 a month.

cabbageandribs1875
02-07-2019, 04:52 PM
Think the long term was 51%

20% to get someone on the board, 25% to have a big say.

They must be close to 20% now, they were sitting at 18.81% and have just iirc bought £70,000 worth of shares due to the initative with the strip. They normally pay in about £14,000 a month.


muchas gracias :aok:

lord bunberry
03-07-2019, 02:05 AM
HSL are/were buying newly created shares, with each batch of shares bought effectively diluting STF's overall percentage. I see no reason why Ron Gordon will change this, though he might limit the fan ownership part to 49 instead of 51%. We're a few years away from that anyway.
Would a guy thatís just paid a hefty whack for shares be prepared to immediately have his share holding diluted for no personal gain? The HSL money wonít be going to Ron Gordon, it goes to into the managers fund.

Peevemor
03-07-2019, 05:36 AM
Would a guy thatís just paid a hefty whack for shares be prepared to immediately have his share holding diluted for no personal gain? The HSL money wonít be going to Ron Gordon, it goes to into the managers fund.

It's possible that this was taken into account when negotiating the purchase price.

BSEJVT
03-07-2019, 06:35 AM
Think the long term was 51%

20% to get someone on the board, 25% to have a big say.

They must be close to 20% now, they were sitting at 18.81% and have just iirc bought £70,000 worth of shares due to the initative with the strip. They normally pay in about £14,000 a month.

The 25.1% provides a barrier to the passing of any special resolution and can therefore stop the club being made private and the forcing of all shareholders to sell their stake.

It is also a reasonable vote to hold in a block and can impede anything the holders doesn't see being in the businesses interest's being passed without a fight

To me the case for HSL is far far stronger than now than it ever was.

We have gone from having a long term benevolent owner to the complete unknown.

If he will permit it we should be buying as much of the shares as possible to keep him honest or probably, more importantly, to keep the next owners honest after he sells up.

These are exciting times and I have every hope that Ron Gordon will be as benevolent an owner as STF but there is simply no getting away from the fact that yesterdays change makes us potentially more exposed to future trouble than we were.

Scottish Football, in particular, is littered with rich or pretend rich men's discarded playthings and it has (Celtic excluded) never ended well

I have no great love for fan ownership and many will argue reasonably that need to help the playing budget has substantially reduced, but to me, this has always been about securing the clubs long term future.

I am hopeful but not expectant that those who previously failed to support HSL solely through their dislike of the old regime or their objection to their perceived parsimony, will now get on board.

I guess we will see what Ron Gordon has to say over HSL and whether those people I have referenced will now support it if they can.

sean04
03-07-2019, 06:43 AM
Time for everybody to invest! Let's really get behind the club.
Hsl and season tickets

The Spaceman
03-07-2019, 06:44 AM
Question for HSL - if I pledge the £18.75 per month now, will that get me onto the 3rd kit next season? Not my primary motivation of course and I will still sign up, but a good perk!

Onion
03-07-2019, 07:02 AM
The 25.1% provides a means of stopping any attempt to take the club private.

To me the case for HSL is far far stronger than now than it ever was.

We have gone from having a long term benevolent owner to the complete unknown.

If he will permit it we should be buying as much of the shares as possible to keep him honest or probably, more importantly, to keep the next owners honest after he sells up.

These are exciting times and I have every hope that Ron Gordon will be as benevolent an owner as STF but there is simply no getting away from the fact that yesterdays change makes us potentially more exposed to future trouble than we were.

Scottish Football, in particular, is littered with discarded rich or pretend rich men's discarded playthings and it has (Celtic excluded) never ended well

I have no great love for fan ownership and many will argue reasonably that need to help the playing budget has substantially reduced, but to me, this has always been about securing the clubs long term future.

I am hopeful but not expectant that those who previously failed to support HSL solely through their dislike of the old regime or their objection to their perceived parsimony, will now get on board.

I guess we will see what Ron Gordon has to say over HSL and whether those people I have referenced will now support it if they can.

Good points, especially about trying to keep our new and future owners honest. STF was a Leith man with family connections to the club, who's motivation was to support the community and put something back in. Very different to Ron Gordon who has no affinity with Edinburgh or Leith and who lives miles away. We need to be able to defend our club from the Vlad and Duffs of this world.

Pagan Hibernia
03-07-2019, 12:35 PM
Good points, especially about trying to keep our new and future owners honest. STF was a Leith man with family connections to the club, who's motivation was to support the community and put something back in. Very different to Ron Gordon who has no affinity with Edinburgh or Leith and who lives miles away. We need to be able to defend our club from the Vlad and Duffs of this world.

This is what worries me. While itís hard not to be excited about the investment announced yesterday and I donít believe for one moment that Farmer would have handed over the reins to anybody he didnít 100% trust, itís what happens ten or twenty years down the line that Iím wary of. If Gordon gets an offer from elsewhere...

two thirds of our club is now out of the hands of ĎHibs peopleí. Yes I know Farmer wasnít a football man but he had long family connections to the club and was embedded in leith. I will eagerly await news from HSL as to how this effects our campaign to safeguard the club in future.

Just Alf
03-07-2019, 06:17 PM
As everyone is pointing out 25.1% HSL ownership has become key. Once we reach that we're safe.

Personally not bothered a out shares after that, but I'll keep contributing to help the manager fund.

GGTTH!

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jacomo
03-07-2019, 09:04 PM
The 25.1% provides a barrier to the passing of any special resolution and can therefore stop the club being made private and the forcing of all shareholders to sell their stake.

It is also a reasonable vote to hold in a block and can impede anything the holders doesn't see being in the businesses interest's being passed without a fight

To me the case for HSL is far far stronger than now than it ever was.

We have gone from having a long term benevolent owner to the complete unknown.

If he will permit it we should be buying as much of the shares as possible to keep him honest or probably, more importantly, to keep the next owners honest after he sells up.

These are exciting times and I have every hope that Ron Gordon will be as benevolent an owner as STF but there is simply no getting away from the fact that yesterdays change makes us potentially more exposed to future trouble than we were.

Scottish Football, in particular, is littered with rich or pretend rich men's discarded playthings and it has (Celtic excluded) never ended well

I have no great love for fan ownership and many will argue reasonably that need to help the playing budget has substantially reduced, but to me, this has always been about securing the clubs long term future.

I am hopeful but not expectant that those who previously failed to support HSL solely through their dislike of the old regime or their objection to their perceived parsimony, will now get on board.

I guess we will see what Ron Gordon has to say over HSL and whether those people I have referenced will now support it if they can.


It's all up in the air at the moment and we definitely need further information from HSL and Ron Gordon about what the plan is now.

However, I agree with you that getting to 20% or 25% would be a very good thing for HSL to do... a seat on the Board and some kind of protection against future calamities.

I am certain that Rod Petrie will have done forensic research before agreeing to this deal, and that we have little to worry about, but having fan representation in this way would be healthy.

Lago
03-07-2019, 09:50 PM
It's all up in the air at the moment and we definitely need further information from HSL and Ron Gordon about what the plan is now.

However, I agree with you that getting to 20% or 25% would be a very good thing for HSL to do... a seat on the Board and some kind of protection against future calamities.

I am certain that Rod Petrie will have done forensic research before agreeing to this deal, and that we have little to worry about, but having fan representation in this way would be healthy.
Not a fan of fan ownership, just don't believe it would work.

Pagan Hibernia
03-07-2019, 10:03 PM
Not a fan of fan ownership, just don't believe it would work.

Holding 25.1% of the shares does not equate to fan ownership.

Bostonhibby
03-07-2019, 10:22 PM
The 25.1% provides a barrier to the passing of any special resolution and can therefore stop the club being made private and the forcing of all shareholders to sell their stake.

It is also a reasonable vote to hold in a block and can impede anything the holders doesn't see being in the businesses interest's being passed without a fight

To me the case for HSL is far far stronger than now than it ever was.

We have gone from having a long term benevolent owner to the complete unknown.

If he will permit it we should be buying as much of the shares as possible to keep him honest or probably, more importantly, to keep the next owners honest after he sells up.

These are exciting times and I have every hope that Ron Gordon will be as benevolent an owner as STF but there is simply no getting away from the fact that yesterdays change makes us potentially more exposed to future trouble than we were.

Scottish Football, in particular, is littered with rich or pretend rich men's discarded playthings and it has (Celtic excluded) never ended well

I have no great love for fan ownership and many will argue reasonably that need to help the playing budget has substantially reduced, but to me, this has always been about securing the clubs long term future.

I am hopeful but not expectant that those who previously failed to support HSL solely through their dislike of the old regime or their objection to their perceived parsimony, will now get on board.

I guess we will see what Ron Gordon has to say over HSL and whether those people I have referenced will now support it if they can.Excellent post, will be interested to see what HSL's future role is.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

1875STEVE
03-07-2019, 11:12 PM
The 25.1% provides a barrier to the passing of any special resolution and can therefore stop the club being made private and the forcing of all shareholders to sell their stake.

It is also a reasonable vote to hold in a block and can impede anything the holders doesn't see being in the businesses interest's being passed without a fight

To me the case for HSL is far far stronger than now than it ever was.

We have gone from having a long term benevolent owner to the complete unknown.

If he will permit it we should be buying as much of the shares as possible to keep him honest or probably, more importantly, to keep the next owners honest after he sells up.

These are exciting times and I have every hope that Ron Gordon will be as benevolent an owner as STF but there is simply no getting away from the fact that yesterdays change makes us potentially more exposed to future trouble than we were.

Scottish Football, in particular, is littered with rich or pretend rich men's discarded playthings and it has (Celtic excluded) never ended well

I have no great love for fan ownership and many will argue reasonably that need to help the playing budget has substantially reduced, but to me, this has always been about securing the clubs long term future.

I am hopeful but not expectant that those who previously failed to support HSL solely through their dislike of the old regime or their objection to their perceived parsimony, will now get on board.

I guess we will see what Ron Gordon has to say over HSL and whether those people I have referenced will now support it if they can.

Excellent post and I agree 100% with the post.

As I've stated Im hopeful Ron will agree to let HSL get to the 25.1% needed.

If it's then stopped and changed to a "transfer fund" id continue backing it.

It give us fans a big say, especially with the fact there's another 15% ish?? in private fan ownership.

If anything went wrong, with HSL at 25% and private at 15% you would be looking at 40% if fans grouped together

Real Emerald
05-07-2019, 12:10 AM
Iíve never been a fan of fan ownership TBH. So many different views and infighting is never a recipe for success with fan ownership Iíve no idea if our new messiah is the answer but there must be more hope with his investment, you would think?

NAE NOOKIE
05-07-2019, 03:11 AM
I canít imagine that HSL will have the same goals now. I have a feeling it may change into an additional funding stream for the manager rather than a vehicle to buy shares in the club. Whilst we donít actually know I canít imagine the new owner will want his newly acquired shares being diluted down to 49%. The email we got is ambiguous because HSL donít know whatís happening, it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

I'm pretty sure 51% fan ownership is a dead duck now and in all honesty as I've said before, personally I am not in the slightest bit bothered about that.

But Ö.Ö. HSL was to all intents and purposes a scheme set up by Hibs, or at least with the full participation of Hibs, to enable fans to become meaningful joint owners of the club and in fact the whole share issue was sold to the folk buying into it from the very beginning on that basis, before HSL was even conceived.

I for one will be very disappointed Ö lets face it rather cross Ö no, in fact raging!!! ... if it transpires that the sale of the club has prematurely brought that concept to an end before supporters have had the chance to acquire at least a 26% share of the club Ö.. and by that I mean genuine supporters who wouldn't dream of letting the shares they do own fall into the hands of anybody they weren't absolutely certain had the best interests of the club at heart. Until we know who owns those large blocks of shares under group names on the shareholders list we cannot in my opinion count them in that category.

STF, Rod Petrie and the rest of the Hibs board and especially Leeann Dempster who holds positions at Hibs and HSL had in my opinion a moral ( if not legal, I don't know ) duty to ensure that under the terms of their transfer of ownership to Ron Gordon their promise that Hibs fans would have a meaningful say in the club's future was adhered to by the new owner Ö. and by that I mean nothing less than getting a guarantee from him in writing that it would be before ownership was transferred to him. If not then in my opinion they have sold the fans who bought into the share issue, including HSL, a pup.

Its my feeling that in order to have proper organisation and the ability to use it effectively if we ever needed to 26% of the club must be in the hands of HSL rather than HSL with say 20% and a disparate group of hundreds / thousands of people with tiny numbers of shares making up the rest.
If in the coming weeks that turns out not to be possible because the new owner of the club has terminated the share issue with HSL well short of the 26% target I will seriously have to ask myself if I can justify continuing with my HSL contributions under those circumstances.

I was willing to put into HSL for so long as I could afford to even long after the share issue had naturally exhausted itself, just so long as my money was going to benefit Hibs Ö. and my attitude will be the same if HSL cease to be a vehicle for buying shares after reaching 26% Ö. but if that does not happen I would not be willing to put money into the club with no assurance that the fans can save it if they need to and my money wont eventually be used by some nefarious so called owner as his personal pot of gold accrued by shafting a bunch of suckers from Leith.

This is not a personal attack on Ron Gordon, my attitude would be the same no matter who our new owner was Ö. too many clubs have been shafted in the last 20 years to make it possible for any football fan to unconditionally trust a new owner.

Dmas
05-07-2019, 05:16 AM
The 25.1% provides a barrier to the passing of any special resolution and can therefore stop the club being made private and the forcing of all shareholders to sell their stake.

It is also a reasonable vote to hold in a block and can impede anything the holders doesn't see being in the businesses interest's being passed without a fight

To me the case for HSL is far far stronger than now than it ever was.

We have gone from having a long term benevolent owner to the complete unknown.

If he will permit it we should be buying as much of the shares as possible to keep him honest or probably, more importantly, to keep the next owners honest after he sells up.

These are exciting times and I have every hope that Ron Gordon will be as benevolent an owner as STF but there is simply no getting away from the fact that yesterdays change makes us potentially more exposed to future trouble than we were.

Scottish Football, in particular, is littered with rich or pretend rich men's discarded playthings and it has (Celtic excluded) never ended well

I have no great love for fan ownership and many will argue reasonably that need to help the playing budget has substantially reduced, but to me, this has always been about securing the clubs long term future.

I am hopeful but not expectant that those who previously failed to support HSL solely through their dislike of the old regime or their objection to their perceived parsimony, will now get on board.

I guess we will see what Ron Gordon has to say over HSL and whether those people I have referenced will now support it if they can.

Great post.

the HSL questions/worries where the reasons Iíve signed up to post here, as before the takeover I was plugging away for the £220 to meet the initial September deadline for the strip.

im now a little sceptical to be honest was the strip idea a final push to reach the 20-25% before the planned sale? LD would have known talks where reaching a conclusion so I canít help feel that the boats been missed for the seat on the board/blocking stake.

I canít see Ron agreeing to dilute his shares heís obviously got plans Iím looking forward to seeing what can happen itís a good time to be a hibby just now exciting times ahead hopefully, but maybe the best we can hope for HSL is he agrees to let us reach the 20% for a seat on the board?

i would be happy (maybe more so) to sign up for a managers fund as I think fan ownership would be a difficult model to get working but I think iíl be waiting on some official statements from both sides before I send over any money.

TrapperJohn
05-07-2019, 06:45 AM
Like other supporters, I had hoped that HSL with at least 20% was the mechanism to avoid any disaster post STF.
Hopefully it will be achieved and never needed.

As an aside it is interesting to see a Charge being applied over assets by Bydand Sports on the 1st July.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005323/filing-history

green day
05-07-2019, 07:45 AM
Like other supporters, I had hoped that HSL with at least 20% was the mechanism to avoid any disaster post STF.
Hopefully it will be achieved and never needed.

As an aside it is interesting to see a Charge being applied over assets by Bydand Sports on the 1st July.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005323/filing-history

Its been discussed at length on the other threads..................

Caversham Green
05-07-2019, 08:05 AM
One thing that should be noted is that Leeann Dempster is a director of HSL and is duty-bound to act in the company's best interests. This is one of the few occasions where a conflict of interest does arise and I hope she's taken her obligations to HSL seriously in all this.

mutley
05-07-2019, 09:25 AM
I've upped my monthly contribution, I think we can only get stronger from here on.

I am not expecting major changes over night, but what I do hope to see is annual progression - meaning higher position each year and better cup runs each year.

If we can keep the ST numbers the same (or even increase each year) then there is no reason why the club can't spend a bit more on players , increasing in quality as we progress.


It has been mentioned elsewhere that the population of Edinburgh and the surrounding areas are expanding, just look at how many new houses are being built in Midlothian. A successful team will draw supporters and the fan base should be able to grow naturally.

It is an exciting time indeed.

FilipinoHibs
05-07-2019, 09:38 AM
Would a guy that’s just paid a hefty whack for shares be prepared to immediately have his share holding diluted for no personal gain? The HSL money won’t be going to Ron Gordon, it goes to into the managers fund.

22.5 million new shares issued and bought by Ron at 4p a share to bring is holding to 67% - HFC held 59% previously. Can't see Ron wanting to dilute his holding and control.

w pilton hibby
05-07-2019, 09:43 AM
22.5 million new shares issued and bought by Ron at 4p a share to bring is holding to 67% - HFC held 59% previously. Can't see Ron wanting to dilute his holding and control.

Is this confirmed anywhere or is this your opinion/theory?

FilipinoHibs
05-07-2019, 09:53 AM
Is this confirmed anywhere or is this your opinion/theory?

He could only get to 67% ownership in two ways. One buy 9m shares off other shareholders other than HFC or 22.5 million of newly issued shares. I think the latter is most likely. The shares have been bought at 4p a share in 2019 so that equates to £900k. The 22.5 million share issue has also been talked about on the Hibs sold thread. I dont think it is an injection if fresh capital but rather a compensation for what remained of Farmers mortgage. Think we will have to wait till end year publication if accounts. But investment well short of £6 million if he paid HFC 4p a share as well . Looks a great deal for him paying around £3.5 million to effectively control and own Hibs.

Peevemor
05-07-2019, 09:54 AM
22.5 million new shares issued and bought by Ron at 4p a share to bring is holding to 67% - HFC held 59% previously. Can't see Ron wanting to dilute his holding and control.

60% or 67% makes no difference regarding control. If new shares have been sold, I can only see that as being a mechanism for injecting cash into the FC (either working capital or to be used toward the loan repayment).

Even if this means that the "other 40%" see their %age share reduce, they'll effectively own a slightlky smaller share of a company that's worth between a million and £3m more.

As I said before, it could be that the global purchase price was negotiated taking into account further new shares being sold to HSL, up to a certain limit (44% including the other individual shareholders?). In that case there's no question of Ron's investment being diluted, only that he paid for what he'll eventually end up with.

Caversham Green
05-07-2019, 10:03 AM
Just a thought here:

In HoMFC's last account there's an entry in the P&L showing a contribution towards player's wages - I think it was probably for Naismith. This shows very clearly that the contribution was used for its intended purpose.

If HSL's share-buying operation came to an end would that be an acceptable way to treat and record any future contributions?

Hibbyradge
05-07-2019, 10:03 AM
I hope that everyone who is now concerned that HSL may not acquire the necessary percentage of shares to stop the club falling into the wrong hands, are already members and have been making donations.

w pilton hibby
05-07-2019, 10:39 AM
He could only get to 67% ownership in two ways. One buy 9m shares off other shareholders other than HFC or 22.5 million of newly issued shares. I think the latter is most likely. The shares have been bought at 4p a share in 2019 so that equates to £900k. The 22.5 million share issue has also been talked about on the Hibs sold thread. I dont think it is an injection if fresh capital but rather a compensation for what remained of Farmers mortgage. Think we will have to wait till end year publication if accounts. But investment well short of £6 million if he paid HFC 4p a share as well . Looks a great deal for him paying around £3.5 million to effectively control and own Hibs.

So, not confirmed anywhere. It's your opinion.

Baldy Foghorn
05-07-2019, 11:28 AM
One thing that should be noted is that Leeann Dempster is a director of HSL and is duty-bound to act in the company's best interests. This is one of the few occasions where a conflict of interest does arise and I hope she's taken her obligations to HSL seriously in all this.

I thought it was a conflict of interest from the day HSL formed with LD and SD holding positions on both boards

Caversham Green
05-07-2019, 11:35 AM
I thought it was a conflict of interest from the day HSL formed with LD and SD holding positions on both boards

I agree in theory, but in practice it was never going to create any real problems until something like this happened. It was also the best practical way to get the whole thing off the ground.

The Spaceman
05-07-2019, 11:45 AM
Question for HSL - if I pledge the £18.75 per month now, will that get me onto the 3rd kit next season? Not my primary motivation of course and I will still sign up, but a good perk!

Anyone at HSL got an answer for me here please?

A Hi-Bee
05-07-2019, 11:48 AM
IMHO, now or as soon as HSL reaches the required amount of share to have a seat on the board, we should be looking at this body moving into what I have suggested for ages.
A Hibs Supporters Transfer Fund (call it what you want) nothing to do with buying more shares as this would now be pointless, HSL has reached its goal as far as I am concerned with a seat on the board.
I am certain that with a clear and transparent vehicle set up only to generate more cash for players the Hibernian support could be galvanised into providing much more in the way of funds each month (The ones that can of course afford to).
A target of £500,000 each year could be reached, and what if (Jim) in your next or first meeting with Ron Gordon you put it to him that he could match each contribution to bring us in an extra £1,000,000 per year.
Something such as this would be a great way for supporters to help the club and I for one would have no hesitation in upping my current HSL monthly donation.
It could all be done in a way to make it the most tax efficient with all the expertise available.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

Hibbyradge
05-07-2019, 11:54 AM
Anyone at HSL got an answer for me here please?

info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk

Pagan Hibernia
05-07-2019, 12:01 PM
Anyone at HSL got an answer for me here please?

You need to have donated £225 by the end of September or whenever the cut off date is.

3pm
05-07-2019, 12:17 PM
IMHO, now or as soon as HSL reaches the required amount of share to have a seat on the board, we should be looking at this body moving into what I have suggested for ages.
A Hibs Supporters Transfer Fund (call it what you want) nothing to do with buying more shares as this would now be pointless, HSL has reached its goal as far as I am concerned with a seat on the board.
I am certain that with a clear and transparent vehicle set up only to generate more cash for players the Hibernian support could be galvanised into providing much more in the way of funds each month (The ones that can of course afford to).
A target of £500,000 each year could be reached, and what if (Jim) in your next or first meeting with Ron Gordon you put it to him that he could match each contribution to bring us in an extra £1,000,000 per year.
Something such as this would be a great way for supporters to help the club and I for one would have no hesitation in upping my current HSL monthly donation.
It could all be done in a way to make it the most tax efficient with all the expertise available.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

A seat on the board?

A Hi-Bee
05-07-2019, 12:25 PM
A seat on the board?

is that not what was required to provide a blocking vote was it not, along with other private owned shares, as a full supporter ownership model was not really going to happen as far as I could see, now is the time to change to a transfer fund to help. all just my humble opinion of course.

Glory Lurker
05-07-2019, 01:11 PM
The HSL statement on Tuesday said they would be meeting Ron again later in the week. It would be good if we could get an update from HSL as and when.

1875STEVE
05-07-2019, 01:16 PM
A seat on the board?

Seat on the board at 20%

Stanton Spence
05-07-2019, 02:11 PM
Is this confirmed anywhere or is this your opinion/theory?No it's most probably not mate and sing hibs is actually doing my tits in. So much so that I've actually put the tapatalk app on my phone so I can post on this forum. For some reason even though I joined ages ago I can't seem to post using chrome or Firefox.
Why don't you give it a rest Sing hibs? We all get that you worked in finance but that doesn't make you privy to everything that's going on with this take over and your negativity is doing my head in along with most others I'd think. Now unless you have real facts and proof can you please stop spouting the same negative *****!!! We have all heard you now and you ain't posted anything with any proof whatsoever yet you come across as what you say is exactly what has happened

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NAE NOOKIE
05-07-2019, 02:39 PM
I hope that everyone who is now concerned that HSL may not acquire the necessary percentage of shares to stop the club falling into the wrong hands, are already members and have been making donations.

That's certainly the case with me, which is one of the reasons I don't want to see the money I'm putting into HSL not being used for the purpose it was originally intended Ö. IE buying shares .... whatever Hibs do with the money after that is fine with me so long as its for the good of the club, but first and foremost I joined HSL to see fans as a voting block have enough power to ensure the club's safety.


Seat on the board at 20%

Seat on the board or not so far as I'm aware, and I definitely stand to be corrected, HSL or a combination of HSL and individual shareholders must hold at least 26% of the total shares in the club in order to be in a position to shackle any attempt to asset strip or cheat the club and as I said in my previous post ideally HSL should hold 26% themselves so that that decisive block of shares can be used cohesively :rolleyes:

Glory Lurker
05-07-2019, 10:03 PM
The HSL statement on Tuesday said they would be meeting Ron again later in the week. It would be good if we could get an update from HSL as and when.

[Yes, I know i'm bumping my own post] In fairness, the week doesn't end until Sunday, and in a remarkable week like this Monday to Friday doesn't apply. We'll have a better idea soon.

malcolm
05-07-2019, 10:08 PM
Iím just waiting for big Da Doo Ron Ron to be pictured signing up for HSL membership (sure they will all meet up on a Monday). Then we can all be more comforted about the role of HSL in the new order:greengrin

FilipinoHibs
06-07-2019, 02:07 AM
No it's most probably not mate and sing hibs is actually doing my tits in. So much so that I've actually put the tapatalk app on my phone so I can post on this forum. For some reason even though I joined ages ago I can't seem to post using chrome or Firefox.
Why don't you give it a rest Sing hibs? We all get that you worked in finance but that doesn't make you privy to everything that's going on with this take over and your negativity is doing my head in along with most others I'd think. Now unless you have real facts and proof can you please stop spouting the same negative *****!!! We have all heard you now and you ain't posted anything with any proof whatsoever yet you come across as what you say is exactly what has happened

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

You have to face the facts. HSL holdings diluted with Ron getting another 22.5 million shares. To take him 67% ownership. He will welcome your money and be polite enough to listen. But if you have any experience of US businessmen, he will have his own strategy and put his own people in which he has already done. The cosy days of Farmer and co are over. They, US business people, have wonderful spin and will make you feel warm and fuzzy and wanted but with no influence. Others on the KickBack meltdown thread have confirmed the new shares. Not negative just facing reality. Simple maths tells you if HFC had 59% and Ron holds 67% then there must have been 22.5 million shares issued to him. We don't know if for Farmer's mortgage or a real capital injection. But we will know within a month when they have to be listed at companies house.

FilipinoHibs
06-07-2019, 03:36 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/sports/soccer/premier-league-american-owners.html

malcolm
06-07-2019, 08:36 AM
You have to face the facts. HSL holdings diluted with Ron getting another 22.5 million shares. To take him 67% ownership. He will welcome your money and be polite enough to listen. But if you have any experience of US businessmen, he will have his own strategy and put his own people in which he has already done. The cosy days of Farmer and co are over. They, US business people, have wonderful spin and will make you feel warm and fuzzy and wanted but with no influence. Others on the KickBack meltdown thread have confirmed the new shares. Not negative just facing reality. Simple maths tells you if HFC had 59% and Ron holds 67% then there must have been 22.5 million shares issued to him. We don't know if for Farmer's mortgage or a real capital injection. But we will know within a month when they have to be listed at companies house.

Now now you were confusing your stereotypical beliefs about American businessmen with facts. And of course is he not a Peruvian/US hybrid businessman with a touch of OZ education operating in the Hispanic sector rather than the more typical WASP business world on which such beliefs may be founded :wink:

My opinion is that beliefs and belief systems are the source of much of the badness in the world and are always a wrong place from which to measure and judge. You never leave the box that such beliefs create - real flat earthers never travel too far in case they fall off the end and Hibs flat earthers never think beyond their bias, prejudice and agendas... :greengrin.

Iím still keeping an open mind

Hibbyradge
06-07-2019, 11:36 AM
Assuming that RG stops issuing new shares for HSL to buy, couldn't they offer to buy holdings from individuals in order to gain the necessary percentage for a seat on the board?

Assuming, that is, that the arrangement still stands.

Whatever happens now, HSL has provided a lot of money for our managers to boost the squad, and in that sense alone, it has been a success.

HFC93
06-07-2019, 11:45 AM
I think now is a good time for HSL to rebrand/relaunch itself. It was damaged in it's early days by the 'ponzi scheme' mob and never really captured the imagination of the wider Hibs support. The name HSL is also pretty uninspiring compared to the Well Society or Foundation of Hearts. I think they need to change it to something more emotive.

BoomtownHibeys
06-07-2019, 11:50 AM
I think now is a good time for HSL to rebrand/relaunch itself. It was damaged in it's early days by the 'ponzi scheme' mob and never really captured the imagination of the wider Hibs support. The name HSL is also pretty uninspiring compared to the Well Society or Foundation of Hearts. I think they need to change it to something more emotive.

Iím sure I got an email saying they were moving away from ďHSLĒ as a name

Hibbyradge
06-07-2019, 12:03 PM
Iím sure I got an email saying they were moving away from ďHSLĒ as a name

They have moved away.

It's just "Hibernian Supporters" now.

Eyrie
06-07-2019, 01:39 PM
Assuming that RG stops issuing new shares for HSL to buy, couldn't they offer to buy holdings from individuals in order to gain the necessary percentage for a seat on the board?

Assuming, that is, that the arrangement still stands.
I'm only paying into HSL to put money into the club. If it starts buying existing shares then there are more deserving causes for my spare cash.

I'm not convinced that HSL is legally entitled to a seat on the board at 25%. I think that was just an agreement with Farmer, so there would be nothing to stop Gordon asking HSL to nominate a director as happens with the supporters reps. It'll be interesting to see if anything changes there as well.


Whatever happens now, HSL has provided a lot of money for our managers to boost the squad, and in that sense alone, it has been a success.
Agreed.

Just Alf
06-07-2019, 01:59 PM
That's certainly the case with me, which is one of the reasons I don't want to see the money I'm putting into HSL not being used for the purpose it was originally intended Ö. IE buying shares .... whatever Hibs do with the money after that is fine with me so long as its for the good of the club, but first and foremost I joined HSL to see fans as a voting block have enough power to ensure the club's safety.



Seat on the board or not so far as I'm aware, and I definitely stand to be corrected, HSL or a combination of HSL and individual shareholders must hold at least 26% of the total shares in the club in order to be in a position to shackle any attempt to asset strip or cheat the club and as I said in my previous post ideally HSL should hold 26% themselves so that that decisive block of shares can be used cohesively :rolleyes:Great Post, this was exactly what HSL said at launch and then on later Q&As, I've read it multiple times on threads here and elsewhere.... Hopefully everyone now 'gets it'



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