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The 90+2
24-06-2019, 11:04 PM
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/west-brom-hit-out-at-neil-lennon-over-celtic-s-treatment-of-oliver-burke-1-4953409

HoboHarry
24-06-2019, 11:16 PM
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/west-brom-hit-out-at-neil-lennon-over-celtic-s-treatment-of-oliver-burke-1-4953409
Article is pretty hard hitting - whatever it was that happened it must have been a doozy......

The 90+2
24-06-2019, 11:18 PM
In all the other media too. Surprised the media are going against Lennon and Celtic here but it’s spot on.

660
24-06-2019, 11:32 PM
but lenny is a bOrN wInNeR

The_Horde
24-06-2019, 11:34 PM
but lenny is a bOrN wInNeR

He is. And clearly Burke and Kamberi aren't..

Or so some will have you believe.

HoboHarry
25-06-2019, 12:03 AM
In all the other media too. Surprised the media are going against Lennon and Celtic here but it’s spot on.
What exactly happened?

Centre Hawf
25-06-2019, 12:31 AM
Not surprised in the slightest. It's a very damning thing for another club to come out publicly like this, whatever happened must have been poor from Lennon. It seems he was also harsh on Timothy Weah also. I'm glad he's gone from our club, I think he was good for us for a period but imo it started to show signs of Terry Butcher damage coming its way. You can be a hard task master and take no prisoners but it catches up with you eventually and it was for the first half of last season.

Celtic fans best be careful because Rangers look like they've actually gotten a rocket up their back side with some of their business. I think the gap between the two will be significantly smaller than any other since Liquidation.

DetroitHibs
25-06-2019, 12:35 AM
Can't get away with treating players like that any more. Gone are the days of young players cleaning boots and doing a graft. Heard many times from ex players that it actually toughened them up and good for them.

ian cruise
25-06-2019, 01:45 AM
Can't get away with treating players like that any more. Gone are the days of young players cleaning boots and doing a graft. Heard many times from ex players that it actually toughened them up and good for them.

It's difficult because the ones who it worked for probably stayed in the game and had semi decent careers (at least) but for every one of them there's another guy who works as a postie* or something who didn't make it because it wasn't an approach that worked with them and they're lost to the game.


* other non footballing job also apy to this example, nothing wrong with being a postie.

Centre Hawf
25-06-2019, 02:02 AM
It's difficult because the ones who it worked for probably stayed in the game and had semi decent careers (at least) but for every one of them there's another guy who works as a postie* or something who didn't make it because it wasn't an approach that worked with them and they're lost to the game.


* other non footballing job also apy to this example, nothing wrong with being a postie.

For every player that says it worked for them there’s plenty that probably were mentally scarred from demands and bullying that went on in the older days. Not a surprise to see so many cases of the “Flawed Genius” in Scottish football with gifted players with drinking problems etc. It’s not a tactic that should be encouraged in any work place and football is the same.

Unseen work
25-06-2019, 02:07 AM
Charlie Mulgrew spoke about Lennon quite openly and said that his demands are absolutely massive and when you’re winning and it’s all rosey he is great. However if you drop points he goes through you which for some folk could be hard to take.

He said at Celtic he probably got off with it because they had the quality to bounce back and win however thought it would be difficult to take if you played for hibs as you’re going to drop more points and Lennon would just keep going for you

Since452
25-06-2019, 05:38 AM
Lennon is a dinosaur. I'll be surprised if he lasts long at Celtic.

Paisley Hibby
25-06-2019, 05:47 AM
Lennon is a dinosaur. I'll be surprised if he lasts long at Celtic.

10 in a row to Celtic is like Brexit to the Tory Party. So I feel that as long as they think Lennon will deliver it the personal stuff/behaviour will be overlooked and he'll get their backing. But the minute it looks at risk he'll be dropped like a flash. Celtic being Celtic, they might get lucky but it'll be ugly.

Since90+2
25-06-2019, 06:19 AM
If anybody has seen the Open Goal interview with Aiden McGeady it will come as no surprise Lennon gets involved in these spats. The way McGeady talks about how Lennon treated him as a 16 year old was an eye opener.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 06:54 AM
10 in a row to Celtic is like Brexit to the Tory Party. So I feel that as long as they think Lennon will deliver it the personal stuff/behaviour will be overlooked and he'll get their backing. But the minute it looks at risk he'll be dropped like a flash. Celtic being Celtic, they might get lucky but it'll be ugly.

Cannae wait!

Got my popcorn ready. :greengrin

:timebomb:

:nanawave:

JimBHibees
25-06-2019, 06:56 AM
Honestly still very surprised they gave Lennon the job especially given what looked like a clear dropping off of performance at the end of the season including getting very lucky in the cup final.

brog
25-06-2019, 07:14 AM
Can't get away with treating players like that any more. Gone are the days of young players cleaning boots and doing a graft. Heard many times from ex players that it actually toughened them up and good for them.

There's a vast difference between all young players doing menial tasks but being treated equally & young(ish) but 1st team players being singled out for hostile treatment. In any work environment that smacks of bullying, no pun intended! I'm sure NL's own well documented problems are a contributory factor here & I feel some sympathy but equally I'm glad he's no longer at ER. I honestly think the Celtc job may be his last as a manager.

neil7908
25-06-2019, 07:21 AM
You wonder what that 16 year old Dembele's parents will be thinking now.

Suggesting in the papers he will be in the squad this season and if I was his family I'd be wondering if this was the manager to develop him.

Maybe a touch harsh on Lennon but it seems to be younger players that he has issues with.

wookie70
25-06-2019, 07:50 AM
You wonder what that 16 year old Dembele's parents will be thinking now.

Suggesting in the papers he will be in the squad this season and if I was his family I'd be wondering if this was the manager to develop him.

Maybe a touch harsh on Lennon but it seems to be younger players that he has issues with.

Younger players are easier to bully. They don'y have the track record so can fall out the game more easily and are more likely not to give it back. Fairly classic bullying tactics to go after the smallest and weakest.

J-C
25-06-2019, 07:51 AM
Younger players are easier to bully. They don'y have the track record so can fall out the game more easily and are more likely not to give it back. Fairly classic bullying tactics to go after the smallest and weakest.

Alex Harris a perfect example.

Vault Boy
25-06-2019, 07:59 AM
In cases like this I think it's fair to assume there's no smoke without fire, it's a recurring theme for Neil Lennon.

Makes me glad he's no longer at our club. An approachable man-manager turned us around and won the Scottish Cup, there's no need for a militant approach.

Borderhibbie76
25-06-2019, 08:04 AM
Theres no smoke without fire and these stories just keep following Lennon around. We had a good spell under him our 1st season back up and will always be thankful for that. But the wheels came off at Tiny at the end if that season when he lost the plot and he should have gone then...I felt at the time he disrespected our great club that night and there would be no way back from it.
Ultimately that proved the case and it was a long 9 months till he finally left last Jan.

Septics problem now and they're welcome to him IMO

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 08:15 AM
Theres no smoke without fire and these stories just keep following Lennon around. We had a good spell under him our 1st season back up and will always be thankful for that. But the wheels came off at Tiny at the end if that season when he lost the plot and he should have gone then...I felt at the time he disrespected our great club that night and there would be no way back from it.
Ultimately that proved the case and it was a long 9 months till he finally left last Jan.

Septics problem now and they're welcome to him IMO

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

:aok:

jeffers
25-06-2019, 08:26 AM
Theres no smoke without fire and these stories just keep following Lennon around. We had a good spell under him our 1st season back up and will always be thankful for that. But the wheels came off at Tiny at the end if that season when he lost the plot and he should have gone then...I felt at the time he disrespected our great club that night and there would be no way back from it.
Ultimately that proved the case and it was a long 9 months till he finally left last Jan.

Septics problem now and they're welcome to him IMO

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Sums it up perfectly for me, glad he's nowhere near the Hibees.

Have his pals Sutton and Hartson been in the media yet defending him ?

hibs4life
25-06-2019, 08:26 AM
I think we need to be careful we are not rewriting history now. In my view, for the majority of Lennon's time here, I think we saw quite a few players' performances improve and it seemed he instilled a greater degree of confidence and self belief in players and it did seem a happy and united team, which provided great entertainment.
Of course latterly that didn't seem to be so evident, so his approach was then correctly questioned.
However, I think his time with us should be remembered positively, save for the last couple of months where, for whatever reason, things seem to spin beyond his control. Those last few months now seem to be how he will be remembered with us, which is a shame for us and him.

CockneyRebel
25-06-2019, 08:47 AM
I think we need to be careful we are not rewriting history now. In my view, for the majority of Lennon's time here, I think we saw quite a few players' performances improve and it seemed he instilled a greater degree of confidence and self belief in players and it did seem a happy and united team, which provided great entertainment.
Of course latterly that didn't seem to be so evident, so his approach was then correctly questioned.
However, I think his time with us should be remembered positively, save for the last couple of months where, for whatever reason, things seem to spin beyond his control. Those last few months now seem to be how he will be remembered with us, which is a shame for us and him.


Glad he's away now but I have to agree with your review.

worcesterhibby
25-06-2019, 08:47 AM
I think we need to be careful we are not rewriting history now. In my view, for the majority of Lennon's time here, I think we saw quite a few players' performances improve and it seemed he instilled a greater degree of confidence and self belief in players and it did seem a happy and united team, which provided great entertainment.
Of course latterly that didn't seem to be so evident, so his approach was then correctly questioned.
However, I think his time with us should be remembered positively, save for the last couple of months where, for whatever reason, things seem to spin beyond his control. Those last few months now seem to be how he will be remembered with us, which is a shame for us and him.

With a team mainly inherited from Stubbs, he got us promoted and with Dylan, SJM and Scott Allan in midfield, we looked a good team under his stewardship. But he lost Dylan (who we are told didn't want to play for him) SJM and Allan and the players he replaced them with were not good enough. He then blamed everyone but himself and lost the dressing room. He is an accident waiting to happen wherever he goes.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 08:49 AM
We’re well rid. Still astonished that Celtic took him on permanently.

Hibernian32
25-06-2019, 08:50 AM
A year ago lennon put the best hibs team together since the tornadoes everyone on here was ranting and raving about the new season on the horizon and europa league which I may add was a successful campaign for us.

I can't understand this lennon seeth some of us have, yes he chucked it a little and his attitude was wrong at times but I feel the new modern players is a little bit a snowflake. I never played at a high level above 17 year old. Highest level I would say was East of Scotland i played. We got absolutely hounded as youngesters and it gave me that bit between my teeth " ill ****ing show you then" was my attitude. If you can't handle the criticism don't sign for a high profile club and and don't get into a job where you are scrutinised for every move you make.

Perfect example was Steven Gerrard under GH early in his career and you hear him talk about rafa as well the uncertainty they gave him and " bullying" some people call it.

Its no reason only the mentality strong are succesful

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 08:53 AM
I think we need to be careful we are not rewriting history now. In my view, for the majority of Lennon's time here, I think we saw quite a few players' performances improve and it seemed he instilled a greater degree of confidence and self belief in players and it did seem a happy and united team, which provided great entertainment.
Of course latterly that didn't seem to be so evident, so his approach was then correctly questioned.
However, I think his time with us should be remembered positively, save for the last couple of months where, for whatever reason, things seem to spin beyond his control. Those last few months now seem to be how he will be remembered with us, which is a shame for us and him.

:agree:

Baffling team selections formations and tactics

Not speaking to the Media

Allowing young Porteous to play on despite having to reset his own dislocated knee three times

Calling out Flo ( maybe rightly so )

A shocking 15 game run

Threatening to leave

No plan B

You just got the vibe he didnae want to be here

All of the above well documented on these threads

In Hecky we trust!

My_Wife_Camille
25-06-2019, 08:56 AM
A fraud of a manager

HFC93
25-06-2019, 08:56 AM
A year ago lennon put the best hibs team together since the tornadoes everyone on here was ranting and raving about the new season on the horizon and europa league which I may add was a successful campaign for us.

I can't understand this lennon seeth some of us have, yes he chucked it a little and his attitude was wrong at times but I feel the new modern players is a little bit a snowflake. I never played at a high level above 17 year old. Highest level I would say was East of Scotland i played. We got absolutely hounded as youngesters and it gave me that bit between my teeth " ill ****ing show you then" was my attitude. If you can't handle the criticism don't sign for a high profile club and and don't get into a job where you are scrutinised for every move you make.

Perfect example was Steven Gerrard under GH early in his career and you hear him talk about rafa as well the uncertainty they gave him and " bullying" some people call it.

Its no reason only the mentality strong are succesful

You lost me with the use of ‘snowflake’.

WhileTheChief..
25-06-2019, 08:57 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 09:02 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

Engineered his way out to conveniently end up in the Celtic job and bullied some of our players. Threatened to leave on numerous occasions as if he was bigger than the club and left us in absolute free fall.

His record at the end and treatment of Flo are the reasons most people are justifiably glad he’s gone. Judging by this article it would seem he treats numerous players like ****.

we are hibs
25-06-2019, 09:04 AM
When it all goes tits up for celtic this season he will continue the theme of blaming everyone else but himself. He had a excellent 6 months at hibs but outwith that it ranged from mediocre to poor. The comparisons to Eddie Turnbull were as laughable then as they are now. Lennon shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as him.

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 09:05 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

It’s doubtful we will have the same quality as McGinn or McGeough and Ambrose so you’re probably right.

The season he left was a complete shambles. Like Billy said he gave the impression he was doing a Colin Calderwood too. That was all after he shat the bed at Tynie with his tactic the night he took a tantrum. Then there was celebrating against the huns when we drew because it looked like it denied them second after blowing 3-0 lead to be 5-3 behind.

Hibernian32
25-06-2019, 09:06 AM
You lost me with the use of ‘snowflake’.

Pansies

worcesterhibby
25-06-2019, 09:09 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

Hyperbole and nonsense. Everyone doesn't "Hate" him. But many are of the opinion that his exit was in the long term best interests of the club.

You have no idea what Heckingbottom can achieve, and he doesn't have the luxury of taking over a team on the UP who had just won the Scottish Cup, and included SJM, Dylan and younger versions of Hanlon, McGregor, Stevenson and Gray.

The Modfather
25-06-2019, 09:11 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

Why are you focusing on the points total? Yes it is an achievement, but if Heckingbottom was to finish 3rd with a lower points total is that a lesser achievement? Lennon finished 4th, that was a good finish but hardly unrepeatable.

James Stephen
25-06-2019, 09:28 AM
Why are you focusing on the points total? Yes it is an achievement, but if Heckingbottom was to finish 3rd with a lower points total is that a lesser achievement? Lennon finished 4th, that was a good finish but hardly unrepeatable.

The record points total line makes me laugh.

When did 3 points for a win come in? Early 90s? So basically he secured our highest points total since the early 90s (still good going) but finished beneath where Miller, McLeish and Mowbray had us in 3rd.

Best team since the 70s? It was the best team (for 6 mths) since the Mowbray / Collins team of 2005 - 2008 imo.

Lenny was good for us and I like him, but he didn't do anything exceptional, that hasn't been done before or won't be done again many times in the future.

People need to calm down with the extremes.

brog
25-06-2019, 09:28 AM
I think we need to be careful we are not rewriting history now. In my view, for the majority of Lennon's time here, I think we saw quite a few players' performances improve and it seemed he instilled a greater degree of confidence and self belief in players and it did seem a happy and united team, which provided great entertainment.
Of course latterly that didn't seem to be so evident, so his approach was then correctly questioned.
However, I think his time with us should be remembered positively, save for the last couple of months where, for whatever reason, things seem to spin beyond his control. Those last few months now seem to be how he will be remembered with us, which is a shame for us and him.

I agree & it's unfortunate this thread is now becoming polarised. Here's my attempt at balance.

Season 1. Pro, got us promoted. Con, Terry Butcher could have got us promoted without Yams & Sevco in League. We scored 1 more point than under AS in both his seasons.
Season 2. Pro, highest ever points total, some great entertainment, 10 Hibs goals in last 2 home games. Won twice at Ibroke. Had the nerve to change out our largely successful strike force. Cons, not many. Poor home games vs Hamilton & St J, a shocker away at Aberdeen. No wins at PBS. Early signs of player problems in winter break at Portugal.
Season 3. Pro, great start to season, 2 losses over 90 minutes in first 16 games. Cons, Shocking 2nd half to 1st half of the season, 2 league wins in 15 games, conflicts with players & appeared to lose the dressing room.
One other overall plus (IMO) for NL was he raised the profile of our club both in Scotland & beyond. Overall it was an entertaining but turbulent ride. We move on however & I'm very happy with our current, more stable set up.

WhileTheChief..
25-06-2019, 09:29 AM
I wonder what you’ll all be saying about Heckingbottom when he leaves!

Forza Fred
25-06-2019, 09:33 AM
The record points total line makes me laugh.

When did 3 points for a win come in? Early 90s? So basically he secured our highest points total since the early 90s (still good going) but finished beneath where Miller, McLeish and Mowbray had us in 3rd.

Best team since the 70s? It was the best team (for 6 mths) since the Mowbray / Collins team of 2005 - 2008 imo.

Lenny was good for us and I like him, but he didn't do anything exceptional, that hasn't been done before or won't be done again many times in the future.

People need to calm down with the extremes.

This forum is renowned for extremes.

Players are usually either superstars or absolute dugsite...rarely are they average.

Managers are too it appears.

My view on Lennon was that for the most part, he was good, but his shelf life was reduced after the Hearts rant, and it became all about him and not the club.

I am happy he has moved on.

The_Horde
25-06-2019, 09:39 AM
A fraud of a manager

Deary me.

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 09:39 AM
I wonder what you’ll all be saying about Heckingbottom when he leaves!

People slag off cup winning hero of a legend Stubbsy so no doubt there will be a few negatives flown his way. As long as he respects the club and isn’t on a piss poor run it will be mainly positive.

Pretty Boy
25-06-2019, 09:40 AM
Football has changed and a lot of players just don't respond to 'motivation' that essentially boils down to bullying anymore.

I've referenced it before but Alex Fergusons discusses his change in style at length in his book on leadership. He basically says that the 'hairdryer' just doesn't work anymore. Modern players, even at a young age, know their value and they just won't respond to being berated on a regular basis. It can be used but it has to be appropriate and proportionate. If it's a go to method then it just goes in one ear and out the other. It's still possible to set high standards and let players know what is expected of them without belittling them. It would be a hard push to argue Fergie wasn't a winner so I'd take his opinion over the 'run them up the dunes at Gullane' brigade.

I suppose it's something that can be transferred to all our working lives. I've had bosses who have tried to be the 'big man' and screamed and shouted at people. They just look like dicks and become a bit of a joke figure with people doing impressions of them and laughing at them behind their back. Most people I know respond better to a bit encouragement, constructive criticism and a boss who is approachable but firm when they have to be.

The_Horde
25-06-2019, 09:40 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

The stars aligned for Lennon. He had one of the best midfields we've probably ever had at his disposal and once they all left he'd no idea how to adapt.

Lester B
25-06-2019, 09:41 AM
Pansies

Seriously? Care to elaborate on that?

My_Wife_Camille
25-06-2019, 09:44 AM
This forum is renowned for extremes.

Players are usually either superstars or absolute dugsite...rarely are they average.

Managers are too it appears.

My view on Lennon was that for the most part, he was good, but his shelf life was reduced after the Hearts rant, and it became all about him and not the club.

I am happy he has moved on.
The funny thing is even when someone does say that a player or manager is ‘average’, it’s somehow taken to mean that they are absolute dug***** anyway 😂

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 09:46 AM
The funny thing is even when someone does say that a player or manager is ‘average’, it’s somehow taken to mean that they are absolute dug***** anyway 😂

I can confirm that is the first thought that goes through my head when someone says a player is average now that you’ve pointed it out :greengrin

Hibs90
25-06-2019, 09:49 AM
Deary me.

We were utter mince all bar 6 months.

Since452
25-06-2019, 09:51 AM
Lennon had the easiest task of any Hibs manager i can remember when he took the job. Club and fanbase riding the crest of a wave and no Hearts or Rangers to battle for promotion. We huffed and puffed but got promoted in the end. Huffed and puffed to the January transfer window when we were back in the Premiership and signed Allan, Maclaren and Kamberi which transformed the 2nd half of the season into a brilliant one. Last season was turgid after not a bad start and by the time he left we looked like relegation fodder. 4/5 excellent months, 3/4 woefull months and the rest average at best.

we are hibs
25-06-2019, 09:52 AM
I wonder what you’ll all be saying about Heckingbottom when he leaves!


Hopefully that he's a Hibs Legend for bringing another Trophy/trophies back to Leith? I get the feeling those who think Lennon was the greatest thing since time began are waiting on Heckingbottom's first slip up.

Heckingbottom currently has a more difficult job this summer in recruiting players than Lennon ever did. Lennon walked into a settled side and used them. Heckingbottom is about to start a transition period where the players who have served us well over the last 5 years are being faded out and new blood and a new style is being implemented.

He done well so far with what was someone elses squad and playing a style of football he admitted himself will be night and day to the one we will play this season with his own players. He deserves the opportunity to mould his own side and has shown enough with Lennon's side that he is more than capable of doing the job.

marinello59
25-06-2019, 09:58 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

I don't hate him.
He was the right man to come in after Stubbs and get us promoted. At no point during that first season did I think he would fail to achieve that goal, a confidence I have rarely felt following Hibs over the years.And his second season was tremendous fun, apart from a few blips it was an absolute joy going to the fitba.
His last few months with us were brutal though. His actions in the dugout swayed between Butcher and Malpas like rants at players and hiding away unable to change things as he did at Killie away. He really did have to go. I reckon he will be OK at Celtic until Sevco start to provide a real challenge and then it will be the same Lennon we saw over the last few months here. There is no doubt its all going to end in tears.

My_Wife_Camille
25-06-2019, 09:59 AM
Lennon had the easiest task of any Hibs manager i can remember when he took the job. Club and fanbase riding the crest of a wave and no Hearts or Rangers to battle for promotion. We huffed and puffed but got promoted in the end. Huffed and puffed to the January transfer window when we were back in the Premiership and signed Allan, Maclaren and Kamberi which transformed the 2nd half of the season into a brilliant one. Last season was turgid after not a bad start and by the time he left we looked like relegation fodder. 4/5 excellent months, 3/4 woefull months and the rest average at best.
Totally agree with this.

Strange how this view seems to be generally accepted assessment of events during Neil Lennons time at Hibs these days but anyone who dared say it at the time was a Lennon hating troll who was revelling in negativity.

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 10:04 AM
Totally agree with this.

Strange how this view seems to be generally accepted assessment of events during Neil Lennons time at Hibs these days but anyone who dared say it at the time was a Lennon hating troll who was revelling in negativity.

Folk back the club and the management regardless.

By the way I was called a Lennon hater, when it was just expressing the opinion Lennon in the job through December and January was not in the clubs best interest anymore which was my opinion.

jeffers
25-06-2019, 10:05 AM
Totally agree with this.

Strange how this view seems to be generally accepted assessment of events during Neil Lennons time at Hibs these days but anyone who dared say it at the time was a Lennon hating troll who was revelling in negativity.
Not forgetting his failure to play David Gray and his resentment at him being referred to as Sir David, which was petty to say the least.

MWHIBBIES
25-06-2019, 10:07 AM
The way folk have turned on Lennon is crap.

Record ever points total and yet everyone now hates him.

I doubt Heckingbittom will have us anywhere near the same points in his time with us.

It was a record for 3 points for a win, big differenece. Killie also matched that ''record'' last season so I don't think its ridiculous to suggest Heckingbottom can match it. We were only like 12 points away from it last season, if we beat Livingston home and away and Dundee home and St Mirren home we pretty much have it. Hardly mindblowing to suggest that can happen.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 10:08 AM
A fraud of a manager

Who’s Hibs team produced some of the best football I’ve seen at Easter Road.

Since452
25-06-2019, 10:08 AM
Totally agree with this.

Strange how this view seems to be generally accepted assessment of events during Neil Lennons time at Hibs these days but anyone who dared say it at the time was a Lennon hating troll who was revelling in negativity.

I remember being crucified on here for saying his Tynecastle meltdown was embarrassing. Absolutely hounded for it

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 10:28 AM
Totally agree with this.

Strange how this view seems to be generally accepted assessment of events during Neil Lennons time at Hibs these days but anyone who dared say it at the time was a Lennon hating troll who was revelling in negativity.

Only by people who are prepared to ignore important details and try and frame his tenure to fit their own argument. Those who take a more balanced view will disagree.

FWIW he's gone, it definitely seems like it's for the best, and I care not one bit what he does at Celtic. But he gave me some of my most favourite times as a Hibs supporter, and I'm grateful for that.

My_Wife_Camille
25-06-2019, 10:38 AM
Only by people who are prepared to ignore important details and try and frame his tenure to fit their own argument. Those who take a more balanced view will disagree.

FWIW he's gone, it definitely seems like it's for the best, and I care not one bit what he does at Celtic. But he gave me some of my most favourite times as a Hibs supporter, and I'm grateful for that.
You can’t get more balanced than giving credit where it’s due and, in turn, criticism where it’s due. That assessment of Lennons time at Hibs is as balanced as you can get in 100 or so words.

A lot of people on here appear to confuse ‘balanced’ for ‘positive’ and don’t realise that it is perfectly possible to have a completely fair, rational and balanced view on something and still reach a ‘negative’ conclusion.

Sean1875
25-06-2019, 10:49 AM
We were utter mince all bar 6 months.

:agree: In a championship which didn't include Sevco or Hearts and with a team that had just won a Scottish Cup we still managed to draw 14 games. Said it all along but bar the second half of our first season back in the top league we were incredibly average under Lennon.

GreenNWhiteArmy
25-06-2019, 11:06 AM
Oli Burke is pish and from what I seen of him at Celtic, blows my mind that he is a professional footballer

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 11:07 AM
Neil Lennon is cut from the same managerial cloth as Terry Butcher with admittedly a bit more tactical nous (but not much). Lennon just managed to keep his winning streak going longer than a few games because as soon as a manager like that starts losing a few games on the bounce they have no idea whatsoever to turn around a slump.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 11:09 AM
Who’s Hibs team produced some of the best football I’ve seen at Easter Road.

And also some of the worst.

That five month spell in the 17/18 season was fantastic. The rest was absolutely dismal.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 11:10 AM
Its no reason only the mentality strong are succesful

Some of the most successful people in life suffer from depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses and are able to say when they feel mistreated or that what they are being put under is not acceptable.

I'd love to put together a proper argument, but seriously, get to ****.

J-C
25-06-2019, 11:10 AM
Once again when there's a Lennon thread it's either people who hate or love him. Let's be really honest here and just say he was a decidedly average manger who had a 4 month spell where it just sort of clicked due to the players he had.

Got us promoted by playing dull as dishwater football all bar a couple of games, his players recruitment was in the main very poor, remember the scouting team can only suggest players, the final decision was down to Lennon. Allowed certain favourite players far too much leeway with training etc and lost the core of the senior players due to this and his bully boy style management, training atmosphere was poisonous seemingly with players not enjoying going into training due to the unknown of Lennon's mood swings.

Laid the blame at everyone's feet except his with his bizarre treatment of players, extraordinary team selections and his own weird temperament.

I'm happy he has gone as he just wasn't the model LD and Craig had spoken about, seemingly Lennon approached us about the job as he was never on our radar but due to his reputation it looked a decent option. Heckingbottom like Stubbs is the model we were meant to be going for, young modern up and coming coaches with new ideas, Lennon was not that, he wanted more hands on manager style and not the head coach role, he stepped on too many peoples toes at Hibs, until he over stepped the mark.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 11:13 AM
Oli Burke is pish and from what I seen of him at Celtic, blows my mind that he is a professional footballer
Agree but very fast for such a tall guy but still pish

15m x 2 ??

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 11:14 AM
The stars aligned for Lennon. He had one of the best midfields we've probably ever had at his disposal and once they all left he'd no idea how to adapt.

We 100% should have finished second that season. The best midfield in the country and yet again his baffling team selection at Tynecastle blew it.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 11:17 AM
That reminds me whatever happened to Shane McGowan?

Started off as good cop bad cop and then became bad cop bad cop

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 11:24 AM
We 100% should have finished second that season. The best midfield in the country and yet again his baffling team selection at Tynecastle blew it.
Agree

Shudda just kept a winning team

He had to draw a line under a missed penalty at t sheep but didn’t

S*** happens!

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 11:25 AM
You can’t get more balanced than giving credit where it’s due and, in turn, criticism where it’s due. That assessment of Lennons time at Hibs is as balanced as you can get in 100 or so words.

A lot of people on here appear to confuse ‘balanced’ for ‘positive’ and don’t realise that it is perfectly possible to have a completely fair, rational and balanced view on something and still reach a ‘negative’ conclusion.

I'm not confusing being balanced for being positive. That assessment is fairly balanced, but is ruined by the 'huffed and puffed until the January transfer window' line. This is continually trotted out and is total bollocks.

By that January window were in 4th place, where we finished, and had 35 points from 22 games - 1.59 points per game, on track for 60 points. We had also been to a League Cup semi final, scored three goals when beating Rangers at Ibrox in the first game since the cup final, beaten Hearts at home, and won five away games in the league. Our league and cup record up to that point was P 29 W 14 D 9 L 6 F 54 A 35 - we scored 23 goals in the League Cup alone.

Whilst there were a couple of disappointing results in the period, I don't know how anyone couldn't make an assessment that wasn't positive overall about that spell. The second half of the season was even better, and I think that some people have now compartmentalised the first part as 'bad' because it wasn't as good as the superb form in the last 16 games (the reality of course, is that many are just using the excellent spell against him, and are simply claiming that the rest is rubbish in comparison).

The second half of the season was excellent. The first part was good, at the very least. Saying that we huffed and puffed through it is not a balanced assessment of that time. It is far more balanced than other comments describing it as 'dismal' and 'mince' though, I'll give you that.

One Day Soon
25-06-2019, 11:27 AM
This single transferable thread theme - because that's what it is regardless of the title and intended subject - recurs every time Neil Lennon is discussed.

It's been done to death previously and repeatedly, is never going to reach an agreed conclusion and serves no useful purpose except one - it every so often allows the Lennon-phobes to scratch that itch they are clearly so desperate to get at.

Actually that probably fills some useful psychological purpose.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 11:28 AM
Agree

Shudda just kept a winning team

He had to draw a line under a missed penalty at t sheep but didn’t

S*** happens!

Wasn't a good penalty from MacLaren but when the goalie is so far off his line then the odds dramatically lengthen.

Jamie MacLaren proved that with confidence, played consistently and getting decent service he scores goals. I honestly don't think Mark McNulty is much better than him, just our quality of supply improved with Heckingbottom coming in.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 11:32 AM
Wasn't a good penalty from MacLaren but when the goalie is so far off his line then the odds dramatically lengthen.

Jamie MacLaren proved that with confidence, played consistently and getting decent service he scores goals. I honestly don't think Mark McNulty is much better than him, just our quality of supply improved with Heckingbottom coming in.
Wasn’t a good penalty from Jamie

He was lucky with his penalty at Ibroke sheer power took it over the line

At Tinycastle the camera kept panning to Jamie MAC on the bench

Brandon up front?

Dearie me

People forget that Jamie MAC scored a hatrick versus t Hun to prove Lenny wrong and launch the aeroplane 😁

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 11:37 AM
Wasn’t a good penalty from Jamie

He was lucky with his penalty at Ibroke sheer power took it over the line

At Tinycastle the camera kept panning to Jamie MAC on the bench

Brandon up front?

Dearie me

People forget that Jamie MAC scored a hatrick versus t Hun to prove Lenny wrong and launch the aeroplane 😁

Was that the first or the second time the "natural born winner" celebrated a draw? :greengrin:stirrer:

MWHIBBIES
25-06-2019, 11:38 AM
Wasn’t a good penalty from Jamie

He was lucky with his penalty at Ibroke sheer power took it over the line

At Tinycastle the camera kept panning to Jamie MAC on the bench

Brandon up front?

Dearie me

People forget that Jamie MAC scored a hatrick versus t Hun to prove Lenny wrong and launch the aeroplane 😁

Barker wasn't up front, he was wide in a front 3 with Boyle on the other side.

Don't think anyone forgets his hatrick. Its only scoring one goal in 6 months after that that bothered people.

Starting Whittaker over Bartley or McGeouch was a big error that night as well.

Since452
25-06-2019, 11:40 AM
I see there's been a statement released from the chamber of secrets. Celtic off to an early flyer in the statement table.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 11:49 AM
Barker wasn't up front, he was wide in a front 3 with Boyle on the other side.

Don't think anyone forgets his hatrick. Its only scoring one goal in 6 months after that that bothered people.

Starting Whittaker over Bartley or McGeouch was a big error that night as well.
Whatever it was it didnae work

I remember Boyle and Brandon interchanging that night and conspiring to miss any chances that did come their way

Potter and his cronies must have been laughing their socks off when the team lines came in

Their mind games worked

I agree with you over Bartley and Whittaker

Flo and Jamie last year is a mystery

Maybe one day the real story will come out but NDAs have been signed

😁

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 11:53 AM
I'm not confusing being balanced for being positive. That assessment is fairly balanced, but is ruined by the 'huffed and puffed until the January transfer window' line. This is continually trotted out and is total bollocks.

By that January window were in 4th place, where we finished, and had 33 points from 22 games - 1.5 points per game, on track for 57 points. We had also been to a League Cup semi final, scored three goals when beating Rangers at Ibrox in the first game since the cup final, beaten Hearts at home, and won five away games in the league. Our league and cup record up to that point was P 29 W 14 D 9 L 6 F 54 A 35 - we scored 23 goals in the League Cup alone.

Whilst there were a couple of disappointing results in the period, I don't know how anyone couldn't make an assessment that wasn't positive overall about that spell. The second half of the season was even better, and I think that some people have now compartmentalised the first part as 'bad' because it wasn't as good as the superb form in the last 16 games (the reality of course, is that many are just using the excellent spell against him, and are simply claiming that the rest is rubbish in comparison).

The second half of the season was excellent. The first part was good, at the very least. Saying that we huffed and puffed through it is not a balanced assessment of that time. It is far more balanced than other comments describing it as 'dismal' and 'mince' though, I'll give you that.

If the first part of the season was good then we would have strolled second as the second part of the season was league winning material. The fact we finished fourth despite an extended run of league winning form in the second half of the season would suggest the first part of that season was average.

WeeRussell
25-06-2019, 11:58 AM
Totally agree with this.

Strange how this view seems to be generally accepted assessment of events during Neil Lennons time at Hibs these days but anyone who dared say it at the time was a Lennon hating troll who was revelling in negativity.

I can't pretend to be a huge fan of a number of posts or indeed your posting style :greengrin however I agree with this.

I think the hibs.net exaggeration during Lennon's tenure is as much to blame as Lennon himself for the polarised threads we still have on him today. There were literally comments every single week, for a spell, insisting he was the best manager we've ever had and should enjoy him while we can. There were posters put-down for suggesting otherwise.

Lennon did alright. And to begin with he definitely improved my opinion on him as a person.

WeeRussell
25-06-2019, 12:01 PM
Why are you focusing on the points total? Yes it is an achievement, but if Heckingbottom was to finish 3rd with a lower points total is that a lesser achievement? Lennon finished 4th, that was a good finish but hardly unrepeatable.

I'll guess that the same people who like the points total record line also don't like people bringing up the points total comparison with Stubbs in the championship (Lennon's season being without Huns/Hertz).

Hibernian32
25-06-2019, 12:03 PM
Seriously? Care to elaborate on that?

Grown men who can't handle a few home truths or a bit hairdryer treatment.

Jessie's / mouse's. Is this type of elaboration good enough?

WeeRussell
25-06-2019, 12:06 PM
Grown men who can't handle a few home truths or a bit hairdryer treatment.

Jessie's / mouse's. Is this type of elaboration good enough?

Do you accept that there are a number of good players, players at the very top even, who most likely excel under a different management/interaction style?

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 12:08 PM
If the first part of the season was good then we would have strolled second as the second part of the season was league winning material. The fact we finished fourth despite an extended run of league winning form in the second half of the season would suggest the first part of that season was average.

We didn't finish higher because Aberdeen and Rangers were above us and won nine of their last 16 matches as well. Again, something not being as good as excellent, doesn't make it average.

WeeRussell
25-06-2019, 12:09 PM
In all the other media too. Surprised the media are going against Lennon and Celtic here but it’s spot on.

Have you seen or heard any further details? Article quoted by OP suggests West Brom really aren't happy at treatment of their player by Lennon, but can't see any specifics as to what the "treatment" was.

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 12:17 PM
Whatever it was it didnae work

I remember Boyle and Brandon interchanging that night and conspiring to miss any chances that did come their way

Potter and his cronies must have been laughing their socks off when the team lines came in

Their mind games worked

I agree with you over Bartley and Whittaker

Flo and Jamie last year is a mystery

Maybe one day the real story will come out but NDAs have been signed

��

We were doing fine and in control of that game before an uncharacteristic mistake by Lewis let them into score - we were creaking after that up until half time though. Second half we were the better team and lost to a goal from a free kick that never was, scored by a guy who should have been suspended. Not one of our best performances of the season, but we definitely did show up that night.

Interestingly the way we set up at the start of that game is exactly how many people expect us to be, formation-wise, under PH next season. His lineup in the win at Tynie recent was possibly the same formation too?

Hibernian32
25-06-2019, 12:19 PM
Do you accept that there are a number of good players, players at the very top even, who most likely excel under a different management/interaction style?

I do look at klopp for a example.

But I feel most managers loose the top sometimes and players go running to the board etc or the papers or release books after there careers.

Could also say Roy Keane, a mad ******* not a good manager I'm no saying it's the only way to manage a player but it's defo needed and little boys get the hump to easy.

Smartie
25-06-2019, 12:29 PM
Burke should come on loan to us.

He's bumped around big clubs, has moved for a few big transfer fees yet never really played that much football.

Burke would be better served going somewhere where he has a good man manager, a crowd behind him and somewhere where he can play every week to get confidence and experience.

It would never happen, as everyone to do with him and his club will convince him that he needs to be playing at a higher level for a bigger club, even though that will only lead to him playing handfuls of games (most off the bench) and his career dwindling away to nothing (whilst he'll still probably move for a few big transfer fees yet).

The McGinn factor, a player of similar ability. We were the right club for him at that stage in his career.

WhileTheChief..
25-06-2019, 12:42 PM
I can't pretend to be a huge fan of a number of posts or indeed your posting style :greengrin however I agree with this.

I think the hibs.net exaggeration during Lennon's tenure is as much to blame as Lennon himself for the polarised threads we still have on him today. There were literally comments every single week, for a spell, insisting he was the best manager we've ever had and should enjoy him while we can. There were posters put-down for suggesting otherwise.

Lennon did alright. And to begin with he definitely improved my opinion on him as a person.

He is my favourite ever Hibs manager, of course I’ll stick up for him for his time with us.

The bile being spewed about him since he left is ridiculous. Folk were kinder about Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood etc etc.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 12:44 PM
We were doing fine and in control of that game before an uncharacteristic mistake by Lewis let them into score - we were creaking after that up until half time though. Second half we were the better team and lost to a goal from a free kick that never was, scored by a guy who should have been suspended. Not one of our best performances of the season, but we definitely did show up that night.

Interestingly the way we set up at the start of that game is exactly how many people expect us to be, formation-wise, under PH next season. His lineup in the win at Tynie recent was possibly the same formation too?
Post match Lennon blamed Hanlon for losing the flight of the ball in the air and other senior pros?

Not like him!

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 01:23 PM
He is my favourite ever Hibs manager, of course I’ll stick up for him for his time with us.

The bile being spewed about him since he left is ridiculous. Folk were kinder about Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood etc etc.

There’s not much bile, just people sharing the opinion they are glad he left based on a good few things.

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 01:25 PM
We were doing fine and in control of that game before an uncharacteristic mistake by Lewis let them into score - we were creaking after that up until half time though. Second half we were the better team and lost to a goal from a free kick that never was, scored by a guy who should have been suspended. Not one of our best performances of the season, but we definitely did show up that night.

Interestingly the way we set up at the start of that game is exactly how many people expect us to be, formation-wise, under PH next season. His lineup in the win at Tynie recent was possibly the same formation too?

We changed formation for some unknown reason and where ***** that night against a piss poor hearts team when it was all to play for and they had sod all. Once again we reverted to battling tactics instead of playing our own game which was successful in many games prior to that evening.

truehibernian
25-06-2019, 01:28 PM
I remember being crucified on here for saying his Tynecastle meltdown was embarrassing. Absolutely hounded for it

Which one ? For me the cracks widened before, during, and after the 2-1 defeat at the end of last season (2-1 game, Flo penalty). His demeanour before the game was unsettling and players like SDG were decidedly dispirited. Half time his behaviour in the dressing room (at Tynie) was erratic to say the least, something which Hearts would have easily heard and been lifted by. At the end when he did the '17 points' and cupping the ears may have been seen by some as a GIRUY but for me the players were fed up looking and unimpressed by his behaviour.

That said I've seen the really nice and positive side of Neil Lennon at events, a good public speaker and nice guy away from the pitch - but he is certainly someone who is Jekyll and Hyde. He's ultra competitive and has high demands and expectations - but you have to be able to temper it and match expectations with realism. Something he was failing to do and by publicly calling out players and demeaning them it was the beginning of the end for him at Hibs.

One main difference I've noticed on the touchline (between NL and PH) is that Hecky coaches throughout the game - makes sure players understand and know their role, gives instruction, and more importantly gives positive feedback. Lennon never coached a game and was content barking orders and littering them with swear words. That can be (and was) counter-productive. You can tell PH has more eye for detail as a game progresses and makes subtle changes without unsettling players or making them unsure of their roles. He also listens to his whole backroom team - I always got the impression the likes of GM, AC and the analysts were intimidated by NL.

BSEJVT
25-06-2019, 01:30 PM
I think the debate over Lennon's tenure is so polarised as Lennon is a love him or hate him type of guy himself.

My take on it would be probably 60/40 positive in his favour but he definitely left at the right time as very little of that 60% positivity came in his least season so the numbers were definitely moving against him.

We weren't brilliant to watch in the Championship but the end justified the means as make no mistake about it, the club from top to bottom were under huge pressure to get out of that league that season and failing to do so would have set us back massively.

Even without the post Christmas huge improvement I would have been happy enough with our first season back until the Tynecastle game, losing the match wasn't the issue, him losing it was a worrying portent of things to come

Apart from a purple patch at the start of his last season, the signs weren't good, baffling team selections and a complete inability to change the shape of the team and a really, really disjointed signing policy had me concerned.

I think he suffered from being disliked when he arrived to winning folk over to going back to being disliked but more strongly than before, his constant Celtic love ins made it difficult for me to fully warm to him even at the best of times.

I am glad he was our manager and enjoyed the ride until the last few months, but he had passed his sell by date when he left and it was in everyone (including his) interests that he left when he did.

I think he will royally **** up being Celtic Manager again and it will all end badly.

For nearly the last decade anyone of us could have managed Celtic and won most of what they have. but truth be told they are full of slightly better than average players many of whom are aging and they are now bereft of the real talent that gave them the edge on the few occasions it was previously required

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 01:35 PM
And also some of the worst.

That five month spell in the 17/18 season was fantastic. The rest was absolutely dismal.


And also some of the worst.

That five month spell in the 17/18 season was fantastic. The rest was absolutely dismal.

That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 01:38 PM
Burke should come on loan to us.

He's bumped around big clubs, has moved for a few big transfer fees yet never really played that much football.

Burke would be better served going somewhere where he has a good man manager, a crowd behind him and somewhere where he can play every week to get confidence and experience.

It would never happen, as everyone to do with him and his club will convince him that he needs to be playing at a higher level for a bigger club, even though that will only lead to him playing handfuls of games (most off the bench) and his career dwindling away to nothing (whilst he'll still probably move for a few big transfer fees yet).

The McGinn factor, a player of similar ability. We were the right club for him at that stage in his career.

Yup. Like you said it’s got no chance of happening, but his development would be much better served being the main man in front of 15k a week at Hibs and scoring 15-20 a season than going on loan to another Championship side and having more of the same.

ancient hibee
25-06-2019, 01:39 PM
Haven’t read the thread which is no doubt the usual for and against Lennon despite the fact that the WBA complaint seems to be that Burke didn’t get picked.To me he is a grossly over rated player and didn’t look even SPFL standard any time I saw him.WBA guy has got some nerve seeing his club throw away £15M on a player and expecting other clubs to improve him.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 01:40 PM
That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

Dylan, SJM and Cummings were all top players under Stubbs, let’s not make out like Lennon took them for average to what they ended up. Boyle did improve though.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 01:41 PM
Haven’t read the thread which is no doubt the usual for and against Lennon despite the fact that the WBA complaint seems to be that Burke didn’t get picked.To me he is a grossly over rated player and didn’t look even SPFL standard any time I saw him.WBA guy has got some nerve seeing his club throw away £15M on a player and expecting other clubs to improve him.

The WBA complaint seems to be very vague, there’s no suggestion it’s because he didn’t get picked. I highly doubt they’d be complaining as they are purely because he didn’t always get a game.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 01:45 PM
Dylan, SJM and Cummings were all top players under Stubbs, let’s not make out like Lennon took them for average to what they ended up. Boyle did improve though.

Dylan was much more effective, consistent and fit under Lennon. And SJM took his game to another level under Lennon. Do you really think a player of Lennons experience at the highest level had no influence on SJM’s development as a player? Cmon now.

Original point is valid, all the players mentioned played there best football for Hibs under Lennon. And it was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Prove me wrong?

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 01:46 PM
We changed formation for some unknown reason and where ***** that night against a piss poor hearts team when it was all to play for and they had sod all. Once again we reverted to battling tactics instead of playing our own game which was successful in many games prior to that evening.

It was an average Hearts team (with a couple of big game performers) who had only lost once at Tynecastle all season, who had plenty to play for - it was a derby at home and they wanted to stop us having any hope of finishing 2nd. We didn't revert to battling tactics, we knocked the ball around well until we went behind - then Hearts swamped us. Sometimes you don't get much choice at Tynie, as the first half an hour of the most recent derby there demonstrated.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 01:49 PM
That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

Cummings, McGinn, McGeouch and to a lesser extent Boyle were already excellent players to begin with, and although Rocky and Ambrose arrive, so did big Dave, Swanson, Whittaker, Brian Graham, Miquel Nelom, Mavrias, Brian McLean, Neil Eardley, Chris Humphrey, Rherras and more. Throwing a lot at the wall springs to mind.

We scored one point more than the previous season having played less games through the whole season, with an easier league that didn't contain Hearts or Rangers and had seen the beginning of the downturn of Falkirk as well.

Neil Lennon inherited McGeouch, McGinn, Cummings, Hanlon, Porteous, McGregor, Boyle, Gray, Stevenson who largely happen to either have left the club or are still the most important members of our squad (Marciano aside).

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 01:55 PM
Cummings, McGinn, McGeouch and to a lesser extent Boyle were already excellent players to begin with, and although Rocky and Ambrose arrive, so did big Dave, Swanson, Whittaker, Brian Graham, Miquel Nelom, Mavrias, Brian McLean, Neil Eardley, Chris Humphrey, Rherras and more. Throwing a lot at the wall springs to mind.

We scored one point more than the previous season having played less games through the whole season, with an easier league that didn't contain Hearts or Rangers and had seen the beginning of the downturn of Falkirk as well.

Neil Lennon inherited McGeouch, McGinn, Cummings, Hanlon, Porteous, McGregor, Boyle, Gray, Stevenson who largely happen to either have left the club or are still the most important members of our squad (Marciano aside).

It wasn’t dismal though was it?

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 01:55 PM
That’s not quite how I remember things. We won the championship by something like 11 points with a goal difference of +54. We were pretty unlucky not to reach the final of the Scottish the same season after a late deflected goal at Hampden against a strong Aberdeen after pumping Hearts 3-1 at Easter Road. We saw Boyle, Cummings, Mcginn, Mcgeough all flourish into top quality players at the top level of the Scottish game. Rocky and Ambrose arrived and went on to become fans favourites.

It was an absolutely superb time to be a Hibs fan and anything but dismal

Second half of the season was good. Perhaps there’s a trend there.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 01:58 PM
It wasn’t dismal though was it?

I was as unenthused as I had been for several years in that first season, thought we were playing boring football and unbalanced in the first half of the second season and last season was Butcher-esque.

Other than six months of his tenure, I thought it was. His repeated celebrating of draws (including one of them being because the other team had a goal disallowed in injury time) was moronic and his "boy band" comment about a team who in the previous season who had overcome hurdle after hurdle was misjudged and his comments about leaving the club after the Tynecastle derby were downright disrespectful.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 02:00 PM
Second half of the season was good. Perhaps there’s a trend there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_Hibernian_F.C._season#Scottish_Cha mpionship

Look at the sheer amount of draws. Not sure I agree with you on that one.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 02:00 PM
I was as unenthused as I had been for several years in that first season, thought we were playing boring football and unbalanced in the first half of the second season and last season was Butcher-esque.

Other than six months of his tenure, I thought it was. His repeated celebrating of draws (including one of them being because the other team had a goal disallowed in injury time) was moronic and his "boy band" comment about a team who in the previous season who had overcome hurdle after hurdle was misjudged and his comments about leaving the club after the Tynecastle derby were downright disrespectful.

We had just won the Scottish Cup, I was absolutely loving life as a Hibs fan and probably the most “enthused” I’ve ever been. Different strokes though!

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 02:06 PM
We had just won the Scottish Cup, I was absolutely loving life as a Hibs fan and probably the most “enthused” I’ve ever been. Different strokes though!

I was so enthused about the Scottish Cup too. However, he came in and called the team who had overcome cup final defeats, awful refereeing decisions in the playoffs, being 2-0 down at Tynie and 2-1 down at Hampden to win the cup a "boyband" and brought in some pretty dismal signings and had us huffing and puffing our way through the Championship.

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 02:10 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_Hibernian_F.C._season#Scottish_Cha mpionship

Look at the sheer amount of draws. Not sure I agree with you on that one.

In terms of no pressure on finishing top from about Feb then 😁

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 02:11 PM
It was an average Hearts team (with a couple of big game performers) who had only lost once at Tynecastle all season, who had plenty to play for - it was a derby at home and they wanted to stop us having any hope of finishing 2nd. We didn't revert to battling tactics, we knocked the ball around well until we went behind - then Hearts swamped us. Sometimes you don't get much choice at Tynie, as the first half an hour of the most recent derby there demonstrated.

We should have finished over 20 points ahead of them, that’s how poor they where. Why we went one up top and dropped Jamie MAC still annoys me that night.

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 02:13 PM
I was so enthused about the Scottish Cup too. However, he came in and called the team who had overcome cup final defeats, awful refereeing decisions in the playoffs, being 2-0 down at Tynie and 2-1 down at Hampden to win the cup a "boyband" and brought in some pretty dismal signings and had us huffing and puffing our way through the Championship.

He didn't say that about the SC winning team.

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 02:14 PM
We should have finished over 20 points ahead of them, that’s how poor they where. Why we went one up top and dropped Jamie MAC still annoys me that night.

He did exactly what PH did in the last derby at Tynecastle.

Amazing that you can make 'only' finishing 18 points ahead of Hearts in our first season back a negative now as well.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 02:14 PM
I was so enthused about the Scottish Cup too. However, he came in and called the team who had overcome cup final defeats, awful refereeing decisions in the playoffs, being 2-0 down at Tynie and 2-1 down at Hampden to win the cup a "boyband" and brought in some pretty dismal signings and had us huffing and puffing our way through the Championship.

For balance I think it’s fair to point out Stubbsys Hibs team also had some pretty “dismal” results in the Championship, lost to Falkirk at Hampden In the Scottish Semis, and got beat by Ross County in a League Cup final.

Imagine if Lennons Hibs side had given us those results.

By the way I’ve not mentioned our best run in Europe for many, many years this past season (yet)

J-C
25-06-2019, 02:18 PM
Haven’t read the thread which is no doubt the usual for and against Lennon despite the fact that the WBA complaint seems to be that Burke didn’t get picked.To me he is a grossly over rated player and didn’t look even SPFL standard any time I saw him.WBA guy has got some nerve seeing his club throw away £15M on a player and expecting other clubs to improve him.


Looking at the WBA statement, it's fairly clear it's a dig at Lennon and not that he wasn't getting picked.

J-C
25-06-2019, 02:25 PM
Dylan was much more effective, consistent and fit under Lennon. And SJM took his game to another level under Lennon. Do you really think a player of Lennons experience at the highest level had no influence on SJM’s development as a player? Cmon now.

Original point is valid, all the players mentioned played there best football for Hibs under Lennon. And it was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Prove me wrong?


Only after he took advice from Snodgrass and seen the same specialist he did which sorted out his hip problems, paid for out his own pocket BTW.

J-C
25-06-2019, 02:26 PM
For balance I think it’s fair to point out Stubbsys Hibs team also had some pretty “dismal” results in the Championship, lost to Falkirk at Hampden In the Scottish Semis, and got beat by Ross County in a League Cup final.

Imagine if Lennons Hibs side had given us those results.

By the way I’ve not mentioned our best run in Europe for many, many years this past season (yet)


Not many will argue there about Stubbs but lets not paint Lennon as some type of god like manager who was all conquering.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 02:27 PM
Not many will argue there about Stubbs but lets not paint Lennon as some type of god like manager who was all conquering.

I’m not trying to, read my posts. The point I’m making is it wasn’t dismal, anything but.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 02:31 PM
Dylan was much more effective, consistent and fit under Lennon. And SJM took his game to another level under Lennon. Do you really think a player of Lennons experience at the highest level had no influence on SJM’s development as a player? Cmon now.

Original point is valid, all the players mentioned played there best football for Hibs under Lennon. And it was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Prove me wrong?

Dylan was fit more often during Lennons second season due to going and seeing a specialist and resolving his injury issues. It stands to reason he’d be more effective and consistent because he played more. That wasn’t down to Lennon, that was down to Dylan and a recommendation from Snodgrass.

SJM was only at Hibs for one season before NL came in. He was outstanding that season. He was outstanding under NL. I’m not sure there was some huge improvement under NL of McGinn, he was destined for the top no matter what.

Some of it was a good time to be a Hibs fan. However plodding through the Championship wasn’t glorious in my eyes, it was effective and that’s about it. Neither was the first half of our first season back up, again, it was decent, but I wouldn’t call it glorious and other than a few results this season was far from glorious under NL. The only period of his tenure id say was glorious was the 12 or so game run when we gained Allan, Flo and JMac. Everything else was effective/decent or in the latter stages absolutely god awful. Let’s remember that his awful run at the end of his tenure was actually longer than his great run in our first season back up.

Since452
25-06-2019, 02:34 PM
Think there's only 6 Lennon signings still at the club and i shudder to think how many he brought in

J-C
25-06-2019, 02:36 PM
I’m not trying to, read my posts. The point I’m making is it wasn’t dismal, anything but.


It was pretty much the same as Stubbs's tenure, some good, some average and some pish.

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 02:37 PM
Cummings, McGinn, McGeouch and to a lesser extent Boyle were already excellent players to begin with, and although Rocky and Ambrose arrive, so did big Dave, Swanson, Whittaker, Brian Graham, Miquel Nelom, Mavrias, Brian McLean, Neil Eardley, Chris Humphrey, Rherras and more. Throwing a lot at the wall springs to mind.

We scored one point more than the previous season having played less games through the whole season, with an easier league that didn't contain Hearts or Rangers and had seen the beginning of the downturn of Falkirk as well.

Neil Lennon inherited McGeouch, McGinn, Cummings, Hanlon, Porteous, McGregor, Boyle, Gray, Stevenson who largely happen to either have left the club or are still the most important members of our squad (Marciano aside).

Funnily enough, Hearts and Rangers weren't our problem, really. We lost 16 of 72 Championship games across two seasons under Stubbs - only four of them were to Hearts (1) and Rangers (3). We were points neutral against Hearts in the season they won the league, and Rangers in the season they went up.

Hearts and Rangers went up before us because they had better results than we did against the other teams, not because they had better results against us in the league. It was the defeats to Falkirk, Alloa, QOS, Raith, Dumbarton and Morton that damaged us.

Falkirk finished 2nd in the league when we won it, same as they had the year before when we finished 3rd.

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 02:38 PM
Think there's only 6 Lennon signings still at the club and i shudder to think how many he brought in

28 not including Kamberi and Jamie Mac twice. Three years for Whittaker ffs.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 02:39 PM
It was pretty much the same as Stubbs's tenure, some good, some average and some pish.

Probably about right. Stubbs tenure was probably more consistently average with the obvious high of the SC thrown in and the fact he had to compete with Hearts and Rangers in the league where as NL seemed to drift between average to outstanding to bloody awful.

Stubbs wins in my eyes though as he managed to deliver an overall average-ish performance level while taking over the biggest mess Hibs have been in during my lifetime. Lennon delivered it on the back of the greatest day in the clubs history.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 02:40 PM
Dylan was fit more often during Lennons second season due to going and seeing a specialist and resolving his injury issues. It stands to reason he’d be more effective and consistent because he played more. That wasn’t down to Lennon, that was down to Dylan and a recommendation from Snodgrass.

SJM was only at Hibs for one season before NL came in. He was outstanding that season. He was outstanding under NL. I’m not sure there was some huge improvement under NL of McGinn, he was destined for the top no matter what.

Some of it was a good time to be a Hibs fan. However plodding through the Championship wasn’t glorious in my eyes, it was effective and that’s about it. Neither was the first half of our first season back up, again, it was decent, but I wouldn’t call it glorious and other than a few results this season was far from glorious under NL. The only period of his tenure id say was glorious was the 12 or so game run when we gained Allan, Flo and JMac. Everything else was effective/decent or in the latter stages absolutely god awful. Let’s remember that his awful run at the end of his tenure was actually longer than his great run in our first season back up.

So when players perfomed well under Lennon it was all to do with the players. And when they performed badly, it was all to do with Lennon.

Riiiiight. I’m out

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 02:43 PM
So when players perfomed well under Lennon it was all to do with the players. And when they performed badly, it was all to do with Lennon.

Riiiiight. I’m out

I never mentioned players performing badly at any point? Dylan and SJM had performed brilliantly under Stubbs, more so SJM due to Dylan’s fitness issues. To make out like NL managed to get them performing is doing a dis-service to the fact they were also great before he got here.

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 02:43 PM
Dylan was fit more often during Lennons second season due to going and seeing a specialist and resolving his injury issues. It stands to reason he’d be more effective and consistent because he played more. That wasn’t down to Lennon, that was down to Dylan and a recommendation from Snodgrass.

SJM was only at Hibs for one season before NL came in. He was outstanding that season. He was outstanding under NL. I’m not sure there was some huge improvement under NL of McGinn, he was destined for the top no matter what.

Some of it was a good time to be a Hibs fan. However plodding through the Championship wasn’t glorious in my eyes, it was effective and that’s about it. Neither was the first half of our first season back up, again, it was decent, but I wouldn’t call it glorious and other than a few results this season was far from glorious under NL. The only period of his tenure id say was glorious was the 12 or so game run when we gained Allan, Flo and JMac. Everything else was effective/decent or in the latter stages absolutely god awful. Let’s remember that his awful run at the end of his tenure was actually longer than his great run in our first season back up.


Probably about right. Stubbs tenure was probably more consistently average with the obvious high of the SC thrown in and the fact he had to compete with Hearts and Rangers in the league where as NL seemed to drift between average to outstanding to bloody awful.

Stubbs wins in my eyes though as he managed to deliver an overall average-ish performance level while taking over the biggest mess Hibs have been in during my lifetime. Lennon delivered it on the back of the greatest day in the clubs history.

Jesus. Why do you even follow football if that's all you've boiled the last few years down to?

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 02:45 PM
Jesus. Why do you even follow football if that's all you've boiled the last few years down to?

Hahaha

Wakeyhibee
25-06-2019, 02:50 PM
A very strange one this!! Is this another example of NL "man management" or just West Brom bleating, Burke did get game time. He got full 90mins in the first 4 games for Celtic and the last man subbed in the 5th. So God knows????

Either way anything that can upset the Celtic apple cart I'm happy with, all Hibs related stuff is irrelevant now :greengrin

Hibernian32
25-06-2019, 02:50 PM
Some of the most successful people in life suffer from depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses and are able to say when they feel mistreated or that what they are being put under is not acceptable.

I'd love to put together a proper argument, but seriously, get to ****.

Don't tell me to get to **** I might have a anxiety attack the next time a think about sharing my opinion:na na:

CockneyRebel
25-06-2019, 02:53 PM
He didn't say that about the SC winning team.


Pretty sure he did.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 02:53 PM
I never mentioned players performing badly at any point? Dylan and SJM had performed brilliantly under Stubbs, more so SJM due to Dylan’s fitness issues. To make out like NL managed to get them performing is doing a dis-service to the fact they were also great before he got here.

Are you seriously suggesting Dylan’s improved performances were all to do with a miracle doctor and absolutely nothing to do with the way his manager set out the team, the training sessions his manager put on, his managers advice as a player who played Premiership, Champions League football, multiple trophies etc?

You know less about how football works that I thought

HoboHarry
25-06-2019, 02:54 PM
Dylan was fit more often during Lennons second season due to going and seeing a specialist and resolving his injury issues. It stands to reason he’d be more effective and consistent because he played more. That wasn’t down to Lennon, that was down to Dylan and a recommendation from Snodgrass.

SJM was only at Hibs for one season before NL came in. He was outstanding that season. He was outstanding under NL. I’m not sure there was some huge improvement under NL of McGinn, he was destined for the top no matter what.

Some of it was a good time to be a Hibs fan. However plodding through the Championship wasn’t glorious in my eyes, it was effective and that’s about it. Neither was the first half of our first season back up, again, it was decent, but I wouldn’t call it glorious and other than a few results this season was far from glorious under NL. The only period of his tenure id say was glorious was the 12 or so game run when we gained Allan, Flo and JMac. Everything else was effective/decent or in the latter stages absolutely god awful. Let’s remember that his awful run at the end of his tenure was actually longer than his great run in our first season back up.
Christ gies peace and away back to your Leonard Cohen records....

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 02:55 PM
Pretty sure he did.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/championship/neil-lennon-pledges-to-toughen-up-boyband-hibs-players-1-4150897


“Boyband, boyband. That’s what I felt about Hibs, from when I first came to Scottish football as a player for Celtic.

“I played against Scott Brown and Steven Whittaker, lads like that. They would play Celtic, play really well and then go out partying in Edinburgh, getting pats on the back. Then they would go and lose to Motherwell the week after.

“That won’t be tolerated here by me.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 02:57 PM
It was pretty much the same as Stubbs's tenure, some good, some average and some pish.

The Championship years were absolutely glorious and I’ll fight that battle to my end. Watching us rise from the ashes and to see the support swell as we improved from a shambolic mess into side genuiemly one of the best in the country was marvellous. I feel privileged I was there home and away most weeks to see it in unfold front of my eyes.

Dismal. It was Class

One Day Soon
25-06-2019, 02:57 PM
Christ gies peace and away back to your Leonard Cohen records....


Glumhibee1 will no' be happy.

we are hibs
25-06-2019, 02:57 PM
Anyone saying the standard of football we played in the 3rd season in the championship was anything other than brutal to watch the majority of the time either has their eyes painted on or weren't there. Spent a season watching us lumping it up to grant holt who wouldn't jump and Brian Graham who would do nothing.

Since452
25-06-2019, 02:59 PM
Anyone saying the standard of football we played in the 3rd season in the championship was anything other than brutal to watch the majority of the time either has their eyes painted on or weren't there. Spent a season watching us lumping it up to grant holt who wouldn't jump and Brian Graham who would do nothing.

With draw after draw

My_Wife_Camille
25-06-2019, 02:59 PM
Christ gies peace and away back to your Leonard Cohen records....
Love of tolerant we are on other people’s views on here 🤣

J-C
25-06-2019, 03:00 PM
Are you seriously suggesting Dylan’s improved performances were all to do with a miracle doctor and absolutely nothing to do with the way his manager set out the team, the training sessions his manager put on, his managers advice as a player who played Premiership, Champions League football, multiple trophies etc?

You know less about how football works that I thought


Yes he is and it's well documented. Dylan had a hip imbalance which caused groin and hamstring issues, he'd tried most physios but nothing worked. Snograss had the same issues and was sent to a specialist in London. After seeing the specialist he was also doing extra work with the Hibs physios specially designed for him.

MWHIBBIES
25-06-2019, 03:02 PM
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/championship/neil-lennon-pledges-to-toughen-up-boyband-hibs-players-1-4150897


“Boyband, boyband. That’s what I felt about Hibs, from when I first came to Scottish football as a player for Celtic.

“I played against Scott Brown and Steven Whittaker, lads like that. They would play Celtic, play really well and then go out partying in Edinburgh, getting pats on the back. Then they would go and lose to Motherwell the week after.

“That won’t be tolerated here by me.

And his last game was a defeat vs Motherwell, only a few weeks after a brilliant victory against Celtic.

Greenbeard
25-06-2019, 03:03 PM
Who’s Hibs team produced some of the best football I’ve seen at Easter Road.
Agreed and had most of us all buzzing for a good spell. But that was mostly undone over the autumn/early winter by some woeful displays and weird selections etc which post-Europe had most of us going from buzzing to fizzing.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 03:05 PM
He didn't say that about the SC winning team.


“I agree Hibs have been soft, I’ve been one of the first to say that about them,” said Lennon.“Boyband, boyband. That’s what I felt about Hibs, from when I first came to Scottish football as a player for Celtic.
“I played against Scott Brown and Steven Whittaker, lads like that. They would play Celtic, play really well and then go out partying in Edinburgh, getting pats on the back. Then they would go and lose to Motherwell the week after.






“That won’t be tolerated here by me.
“I don’t want them getting pats on the back for beating Raith Rovers or drawing away at Dumbarton. I’ll give them 
a pat on the back if they win promotion.
“They’ve got to learn quickly. It’s not acceptable for a club of this standard.”
Lennon added: “Inconsistency won’t be tolerated. Or ill-
discipline. And, yes, I know that’s a bit of poacher turned gamekeeper.

TBF he said that about Hibs in general. But didn't exclude the cup winning team, and then ended up getting quite a lot of draws against teams like Dumbarton. That was a team that deserved praise for overcoming the odds as opposed to the "me me me" tough guy act.

One Day Soon
25-06-2019, 03:06 PM
**** me it's turning into a full on Walking Dead zombie herd scene. Shuffling along, hissing 'Lennnnonnnn', looking for the flesh of The Balanced.

Who'd have thought a thread on Oliver Burke would merit 5 pages...

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 03:07 PM
Yes he is and it's well documented. Dylan had a hip imbalance which caused groin and hamstring issues, he'd tried most physios but nothing worked. Snograss had the same issues and was sent to a specialist in London. After seeing the specialist he was also doing extra work with the Hibs physios specially designed for him.

I’m not discrediting the effect the Dr had on his fitness, not at all, but you can’t put it all down to a Dr and disregard the input of a highly successful midfielder who was managing him at the same time.

Stevie Reid
25-06-2019, 03:08 PM
TBF he said that about Hibs in general. But didn't exclude the cup winning team, and then ended up getting quite a lot of draws against teams like Dumbarton. That was a team that deserved praise for overcoming the odds as opposed to the "me me me" tough guy act.[/FONT][/COLOR]

We had won the Scottish Cup, the next thing to do was to get out of the league we were in - and he highlighted, rightly, where we needed to improve to do that. I don't think many folk took issue with that at the time. He most certainly didn't come out and slaughter the cup winning team, as you had suggested.

Northernhibee
25-06-2019, 03:09 PM
I’m not discrediting the effect the Dr had on his fitness, not at all, but you can’t put it all down to a Dr and disregard the input of a highly successful midfielder who was managing him at the same time.

Neil Lennon was partially responsible for helping correct his hip imbalance? :confused:

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 03:10 PM
Neil Lennon was partially responsible for helping correct his hip imbalance? :confused:

He was partly responsible for his improved performances ;)

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 03:10 PM
The Championship years were absolutely glorious and I’ll fight that battle to my end. Watching us rise from the ashes and to see the support swell as we improved from a shambolic mess into side genuiemly one of the best in the country was marvellous. I feel privileged I was there home and away most weeks to see it in unfold front of my eyes.

Dismal. It was Class

:agree:

This!

Some brilliant games against Der Hun like a phoenix that rose from the ashes and some poor results along the way a veritable roller coaster ride

Typical HIBS

Did we not finish above The Rangers?

Hats off to them no one expected Hearts to go on the run they did

They blew everyone away

Since452
25-06-2019, 03:16 PM
:agree:

This!

Some brilliant games against Der Hun like a phoenix that rose from the ashes and some poor results along the way a veritable roller coaster ride

Typical HIBS

Did we not finish above The Rangers?

Hats off to them no one expected Hearts to go on the run they did

They blew everyone away

For every pumping of Rangers there was an away day soaking at Cowdenbeath. I agree a little though as i quite enjoyed seeing Allan,Malonga etc blossom in the first season down. I don't miss it in the slightest though. If we hadn't won the cup that 3rd season would have been grim. Thank god we did.

Smartie
25-06-2019, 03:17 PM
Anyone saying the standard of football we played in the 3rd season in the championship was anything other than brutal to watch the majority of the time either has their eyes painted on or weren't there. Spent a season watching us lumping it up to grant holt who wouldn't jump and Brian Graham who would do nothing.


With draw after draw

He had one job that season - get us up - which he did.

We didn't have to love it or enjoy it.

If we'd had lovely football and a glorious 3rd failure to get promotion, I hate to think where we might be right now.

Then his first season back up was excellent.

Last season, an inevitable transition season, was disappointing for various reasons but disappointing still ranks above several disasters we've had over the years.

I'm glad he's no longer our manager for several reasons, but I'm happy to look back on his time at Hibs as a success and I don't know where all this negativity is coming from. We've had many managers who achieved much less, relative to expectation.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 03:25 PM
He was partly responsible for his improved performances ;)

Lennon helped Dylan throughout his entire career

Dylan left Celtic to join Rangers when his big brother got dropped by Celtic

Lennon went to Dylan’s house when he was a Rangers player and asked him to come back to Darkheid

Much to the chagrin of Walter Smith

Dylans second half performance against Aberdeen in the SC SF at Hampden was inspirational and he scored a magnificent goal after a one two with Grant Holt and had to go off shortly after apparently straining himself through over celebrating the goal

It is therefore very strange that one of the reasons allegedly given by Dylan McGeoch for wanting to leave Hibernian Football Club was Neil Lennon

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 03:45 PM
The Championship years were absolutely glorious and I’ll fight that battle to my end. Watching us rise from the ashes and to see the support swell as we improved from a shambolic mess into side genuiemly one of the best in the country was marvellous. I feel privileged I was there home and away most weeks to see it in unfold front of my eyes.

Dismal. It was Class

To suggest that finishing with the same points total that RC finished with last season and even less than St Mirren finished with the season before was some sort of glorious achievement will never be something I’ll agree with so we’ll agree to disagree.

With regards to Dylan, I didn’t see Dylan having massively improved as a player under Lennon. He just had his final season where he played more regularly allowing him to have more good games. He had plenty outstanding games before Lennon came in.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 03:48 PM
To suggest that finishing with the same points total that RC finished with last season and even less than St Mirren finished with the season before was some sort of glorious achievement will never be something I’ll agree with so we’ll agree to disagree.

With regards to Dylan, I didn’t see Dylan having massively improved as a player under Lennon. He just had his final season where he played more regularly allowing him to have more good games. He had plenty outstanding games before Lennon came in.

It was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Can you not read?

Can you give Lennon credit for anything good Hibs done during his period as Hibs manager? Been gagging to ask

WhileTheChief..
25-06-2019, 03:56 PM
We will need to improve massively if Heckingbottom is to be spared the same vitriol.

I guess we can still blame Lennon this season if we don’t live up to the new expectations but how long can we do that for?

At what point can we move on and say he’s got nowt to do with us anymore?

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 03:59 PM
It was a glorious time to be a Hibs fan. Can you not read?

Can you give Lennon credit for anything good Hibs done during his period as Hibs manager? Been gagging to ask

“The championship years were glorious” was what you said. Not “a glorious time to be a Hibs fan.”

I’ve already said he had an outstanding period as manager. More than once aswell. Can you not read?

J-C
25-06-2019, 04:05 PM
I’m not discrediting the effect the Dr had on his fitness, not at all, but you can’t put it all down to a Dr and disregard the input of a highly successful midfielder who was managing him at the same time.


Dylan was already a very good midfielder but was constantly troubled by injuries, this means we never really saw the consistently high standard Dylan we got in his final season, nothing to do with Lennon and all to do with Dylan getting the expert help he needed. Are you going to ignore the fact that Dylan was also a very good midfielder under Stubbs and a cup winner before Lennon came in, his talent has never been questioned, his injury status was always questioned on here prior to his final season, also remember there are some who have suggested we offered him a very good deal but he left due to Lennon.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 04:09 PM
“The championship years were glorious” was what you said. Not “a glorious time to be a Hibs fan.”

I’ve already said he had an outstanding period as manager. More than once aswell. Can you not read?

Years = a measurement of time, sorry I had to spell that out for you.

MagicSwirlingShip
25-06-2019, 04:10 PM
Dylan was already a very good midfielder but was constantly troubled by injuries, this means we never really saw the consistently high standard Dylan we got in his final season, nothing to do with Lennon and all to do with Dylan getting the expert help he needed. Are you going to ignore the fact that Dylan was also a very good midfielder under Stubbs and a cup winner before Lennon came in, his talent has never been questioned, his injury status was always questioned on here prior to his final season, also remember there are some who have suggested we offered him a very good deal but he left due to Lennon.

He was a good player before. In my opinion he was a better player under Lennon, due to his improved fitness and by having Lennon as a manager. Will stand by that.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 04:12 PM
Years = a measurement of time, sorry I had to spell that out for you.

You said it was glorious. Which is exactly what I said I wouldn’t describe it as and we could agree to disagree with. I’m not going to debate with you, you can bash on and beat one out to the glory days of pretty poor points totals in the Championship.

blackpoolhibs
25-06-2019, 04:13 PM
I often wonder how old some folk are and what teams they have seen at Easter Road, when they consider sitting 4th in December/January after 3 repeat 3 seasons in the sheite as just ok, average, decent?

Smartie
25-06-2019, 04:15 PM
He was a good player before. In my opinion he was a better player under Lennon, due to his improved fitness and by having Lennon as a manager. Will stand by that.

A number of our players improved during Lennon's time at the club.

How much of that was down to the players and how much of it was down to Lennon is open to debate, but I think it is pretty unfair for anyone not to acknowledge the point.

FWIW I think one of the greatest positives from Lennon's time was the improvement we saw in Boyle, Porteous, McGinn, Dylan and Cummings who I thought all looked better after playing under Lennon. There were other players who played some of the best football of their careers under him too - Scott Allan, Kamberi (1st season), McLaren (1st season) and Barker.

The Modfather
25-06-2019, 04:17 PM
It wasn’t dismal though was it?

The championship season was dismal to watch. It felt like a chore going to games and I just wanted it over with. The next season pre January was fine, room for improvement, but was happy enough. Post January was up there with spells under Mowbray & Collins. Last season was atrocious.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 04:18 PM
Dylan was already a very good midfielder but was constantly troubled by injuries, this means we never really saw the consistently high standard Dylan we got in his final season, nothing to do with Lennon and all to do with Dylan getting the expert help he needed. Are you going to ignore the fact that Dylan was also a very good midfielder under Stubbs and a cup winner before Lennon came in, his talent has never been questioned, his injury status was always questioned on here prior to his final season, also remember there are some who have suggested we offered him a very good deal but he left due to Lennon.

:agree:

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 04:19 PM
The championship season was dismal to watch. It felt like a chore going to games and I just wanted it over with. The next season pre January was fine, room for improvement, but was happy enough. Post January was up there with spells under Mowbray & Collins. Last season was atrocious.

:agree:

J-C
25-06-2019, 04:19 PM
I often wonder how old some folk are and what teams they have seen at Easter Road, when they consider sitting 4th in December/January after 3 repeat 3 seasons in the sheite as just ok, average, decent?


I don't think Lennon's 1st season back up was average, finishing 4th and having a right go at 2nd was great to watch and the team in that final 4 months played some great stuff, we had our problems with Stokes and Portugalgate but it was a pretty good season. Last season though was poor, it was always going to be hard losing an entire midfield but there seems little strategy in Lennon's recruitment policy, with multiple loans and short term fixes.

blackpoolhibs
25-06-2019, 04:20 PM
The championship season was dismal to watch. It felt like a chore going to games and I just wanted it over with. The next season pre January was fine, room for improvement, but was happy enough. Post January was up there with spells under Mowbray & Collins. Last season was atrocious.

I thought every year we played in that league was mind numbingly boring, apart from the derbys and the games against sevco, the rest were played with as much atmosphere as a friendly game bar the odd exception.

Cup games were decent though.:greengrin

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 04:21 PM
No bother sadsacks. You can beat one out to the droanings of your own repetitive negativity

:hilarious :top marks


:faf:

One Day Soon
25-06-2019, 04:21 PM
We will need to improve massively if Heckingbottom is to be spared the same vitriol.

I guess we can still blame Lennon this season if we don’t live up to the new expectations but how long can we do that for?

At what point can we move on and say he’s got nowt to do with us anymore?


Never. Burn the witch. Then rehydrate him so he can be burned again. Or rather, he had good points and bad points. But still, burn the witch.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 04:24 PM
I don't think Lennon's 1st season back up was average, finishing 4th and having a right go at 2nd was great to watch and the team in that final 4 months played some great stuff, we had our problems with Stokes and Portugalgate but it was a pretty good season. Last season though was poor, it was always going to be hard losing an entire midfield but there seems little strategy in Lennon's recruitment policy, with multiple loans and short term fixes.

:confused:

It was the team he picked in the penultimate game of his second season that was the problem

J-C
25-06-2019, 04:24 PM
A number of our players improved during Lennon's time at the club.

How much of that was down to the players and how much of it was down to Lennon is open to debate, but I think it is pretty unfair for anyone not to acknowledge the point.

FWIW I think one of the greatest positives from Lennon's time was the improvement we saw in Boyle, Porteous, McGinn, Dylan and Cummings who I thought all looked better after playing under Lennon. There were other players who played some of the best football of their careers under him too - Scott Allan, Kamberi (1st season), McLaren (1st season) and Barker.


Could it be said that when things went well, Lennon was a good manager to work under but when it turned sour he wasn't. Lots of stories about bullying and losing the senior players last season when he didn't have what it takes to build a squad. The players above had all been at Hibs a couple of seasons and were probably getting better anyway, I'd suggest Grant Murray and Parker would take a lot of the credit for some of these players.

J-C
25-06-2019, 04:27 PM
:confused:

It was the team he picked in the penultimate game of his second season that was the problem


I never said it wasn't, I was gutted at that game, it was still a cracking season watching us going for 2nd right up until then.

jeffers
25-06-2019, 04:43 PM
We will need to improve massively if Heckingbottom is to be spared the same vitriol.

I guess we can still blame Lennon this season if we don’t live up to the new expectations but how long can we do that for?

At what point can we move on and say he’s got nowt to do with us anymore?

Maybe sounds a bit daft to say, but my own issues with Lennon aren't the football or results as such. I just feel (and from some of the things I've been told) he treated Hibs with contempt and thought he was bigger than the club. At times it was the Neil Lennon circus.

If Paul Heckinbottom tries his best, continues to act in the same manner towards the club and fans even if it doesn't work out I highly doubt he'll receive anything like the vitriol Lennon does.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 04:44 PM
I never said it wasn't, I was gutted at that game, it was still a cracking season watching us going for 2nd right up until then.

Did you think we were going to do it at 3-0 up?

WeeRussell
25-06-2019, 04:47 PM
We will need to improve massively if Heckingbottom is to be spared the same vitriol.

I guess we can still blame Lennon this season if we don’t live up to the new expectations but how long can we do that for?

At what point can we move on and say he’s got nowt to do with us anymore?

6 pages is a lot to check through but I haven’t noticed any posts whatsoever blaming Lennon for anything since he left the club or suggesting he still has anything to do with us? Only a small few including yourself that hold him in the highest of regards in terms of hibs managers, and a larger number who appreciate that it was the right time for him to leave when he did and his time here wasn’t the god-like performance some would have you believe.

Why should you be allowed to talk about how wonderful he was but then make out like he shouldn’t be discussed full stop when someone gives a different opinion?

J-C
25-06-2019, 04:47 PM
Did you think we were going to do it at 3-0 up?


Nope, we needed to win by 6 goals IIRC, when we got to 3 we all looked around at each other and you could see the faces thinking, just maybe but then the head takes over and you realise that was probably never going to happen. It wasn't just the Hearts loss, it was also the draw to Aberdeen that screwed us.

J-C
25-06-2019, 04:52 PM
Maybe sounds a bit daft to say, but my own issues with Lennon aren't the football or results as such. I just feel (and from some of the things I've been told) he treated Hibs with contempt and thought he was bigger than the club. At times it was the Neil Lennon circus.

If Paul Heckinbottom tries his best, continues to act in the same manner towards the club and fans even if it doesn't work out I highly doubt he'll receive anything like the vitriol Lennon does.


Lennon wasn't the model that LD and Craig had been going for, a young enthusiastic forward thinking coach similar to Stubbs. By all account he approached us and it was out the blue, his high profile was not to be sniffed at but he stepped on a few toes at ER forgetting he was a head coach and not a manager.

BSEJVT
25-06-2019, 05:04 PM
We will need to improve massively if Heckingbottom is to be spared the same vitriol.

I guess we can still blame Lennon this season if we don’t live up to the new expectations but how long can we do that for?

At what point can we move on and say he’s got nowt to do with us anymore?

What a strange post

I get that you really liked Lennon but you need to be a bit more balanced.

Most folk are prepared to both praise him for his successes but criticise him for his failings but your posts read as though you think he was the messiah, when in fact he was a naughty boy.

I think by the time the season starts there will be so few of his signings left that there will be no prospect of this team having anything to do with Lennon

Even now I wouldn't consider him either blame worthy or deserving of any credit for this year's team

But I would still expect Kamberi, Whittaker, Marciano & Slivka to go, although it will be dependent on finding takers for Whittaker & Slivka, neither of whom I expect to feature at all in the coming season.

Kamberi wont play 3rd fiddle in a potentially 1 striker team and I think the genie is out the bottle with Marciano.

So that would leave us with Horgan & Mallan ( I think)

I would bite you hand of for 4th now, so I don't necessarily think Heckingbottom needs to do better than Lennon's best, what I expect of him is to achieve it without all the drama and to look as though he knows what he is doing when Plan A isn't working and to refrain from the bingo number selection policies that Lennon employed in his latter days at Hibs

WhileTheChief..
25-06-2019, 05:13 PM
I’ve never once said that I thought he was the best Hibs manager, I’m saying he was MY favourite.

There were games at ER like Natural Order or the aeroplane or the ear cupping at Ibrox, I absolutely loved them.

I can’t remember the last time I was so excited about going to ER, it was fantastic stuff and pretty much everyone agreed so at the time.

Now the same folk are rewriting history and saying his time with us was dismal.

If his time was dismal then what the hell was I watching for the 40 previous years?!

Anyways, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, why do you all need me to see things your way??

CapitalGreen
25-06-2019, 05:27 PM
I’ve never once said that I thought he was the best Hibs manager, I’m saying he was MY favourite.

There were games at ER like Natural Order or the aeroplane or the ear cupping at Ibrox, I absolutely loved them.

I can’t remember the last time I was so excited about going to ER, it was fantastic stuff and pretty much everyone agreed so at the time.

Now the same folk are rewriting history and saying his time with us was dismal.

If his time was dismal then what the hell was I watching for the 40 previous years?!

Anyways, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, why do you all need me to see things your way??

There are countless examples of people throughout history who have been widely lauded at the time for their achievements but as time progresses and as traits of their character are exposed the opinion of that person shifts towards the negative.

People were in the most part positive of his transfer dealings at the end of Jan 2018 but that was before his poor signings the following Summer.

People were so excited about his team and performances after the run of 13 games between Feb and April 2018 but that was before his disastrous run from Oct - Jan 2019.

His man management skills were positively spoken of until it was revealed he nearly drove Kamberi out of the club and made a negative comment about our club captain at an AGM.

calumhibee1
25-06-2019, 05:27 PM
I’ve never once said that I thought he was the best Hibs manager, I’m saying he was MY favourite.

There were games at ER like Natural Order or the aeroplane or the ear cupping at Ibrox, I absolutely loved them.

I can’t remember the last time I was so excited about going to ER, it was fantastic stuff and pretty much everyone agreed so at the time.

Now the same folk are rewriting history and saying his time with us was dismal.

If his time was dismal then what the hell was I watching for the 40 previous years?!

Anyways, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, why do you all need me to see things your way??

The Lennon is a fraud threads that appeared on more than one occasion would suggest that folk were also saying it while he was manager at Hibs, so it’s not necessarily true that everyone agreed at the time that it was fantastic stuff. The only period everyone would probably agree with that would be the 12 or so games when Allan and Flo etc came in and Allan especially was worth the admission money alone.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 05:27 PM
Said it before and I will say it again I feel sorry for any Hibernian that did not see Turnbulls Tornadoes

Hard to imagine it is now almost fifty years ago

What a team that was

No other HIBS team has got close to that level of brilliance a system drilled into them by hard work on the training pitch and an almost telepathic understanding of each other’s role in the team

There have many good HIBS teams over the years and Neil Lennons side in their search for second place came close but ultimately just fell short

Keith_M
25-06-2019, 06:49 PM
Could we have one of the "there's only one Neil Lennon" guys to make a vigorous defence, please?

ancient hibee
25-06-2019, 06:56 PM
Said it before and I will say it again I feel sorry for any Hibernian that did not see Turnbulls Tornadoes

Hard to imagine it is now almost fifty years ago

What a team that was

No other HIBS team has got close to that level of brilliance a system drilled into them by hard work on the training pitch and an almost telepathic understanding of each other’s role in the team

There have many good HIBS teams over the years and Neil Lennons side in their search for second place came close but ultimately just fell short

A sweeping statement ignoring the team that won the league 3 times,finished second 4 times and third once in a period of 8 seasons!!

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 07:00 PM
A sweeping statement ignoring the team that won the league 3 times,finished second 4 times and third once in a period of 8 seasons!!

Alas I am no as old as you auld yin! 😁

The reason I put this into this thread is because I remember at the time people were saying Lennons team were better than the Tornadoes

Oh ma aching sides!

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 07:01 PM
Could we have one of the "there's only one Neil Lennon" guys to make a vigorous defence, please?

Yeah!

Whatever happened to Lennons Lip?

I used to quite like him 😁

ancient hibee
25-06-2019, 07:02 PM
Alas I am no as old as you auld yin! 😁

The reason I put this into this thread is because I remember at the time people were saying Lennons team were better than the Tornadoes

Oh ma aching sides!

A team that didn't fulfil its potential I'm afraid even though wonderful to watch and certainly the best of the last 50 years.

The 90+2
25-06-2019, 07:07 PM
Yeah!

Whatever happened to Lennons Lip?

I used to quite like him 😁

Now Hecky’s Hip I believe.

BILLYHIBS
25-06-2019, 07:25 PM
A team that didn't fulfil its potential I'm afraid even though wonderful to watch and certainly the best of the last 50 years.

Agree!

Jock Steins Celtic didnae help

Broken up far too soon

Shudda brought in reinforcements and adopted the modern squad mentality

People moaning about Lennon I do not think Turnbull was an angel

His way or the highway

Just ask Jim Herriot

One bad game!