VAR - is it good for the game?

[PatHead]

Must admit that I have never been in favour of it. The ongoings at the woman's world Cup seems to cause more problems than it solves. If it has to be brought in it should only be used for clear cut decisions. Any thoughts?
Experienced it yesterday and it holds up the game too much. Obviously an American idea.

[Alan62]

No. It’s a waste of time and money.


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[hibsbollah]

It's good for hibs.net. It gives folk something else to be opinionated blowhards about.

Personally I don't like it.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I thought it would be but, I'm yet to be convinced.

[Haymaker]

No. Killing the game.

[Just Jimmy]

it's not the video. it's the substandard refereeing. I bet it's not as bad in the premiership next year as the standard of original decisions is (despite the clowns on match of the day) much higher and they'll only use it for its proper purpose of correcting a clear error.

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[Saturday Boy]

Must admit that I have never been in favour of it. The ongoings at the woman's world Cup seems to cause more problems than it solves. If it has to be brought in it should only be used for clear cut decisions. Any thoughts?
Experienced it yesterday and it holds up the game too much. Obviously an American idea.

Having spent two weeks in France at the World Cup, all I can say is that it’s a nightmare.

It breaks up play, and I agree with the American point.

Next we’ll have 4 quarters, subbing formations for offensive or defensive plays.

Taking a beautiful game and ruining it to suit morons with money.

Did I mention that I’m not a fan of VAR 😂

[BILLYHIBS]

A start would be getting goal line technology in the SPFL Premiership

[Scouse Hibee]

Never liked it from the start and with every game I watch I see nothing to change my mind, Goal line technology is sufficient.

[Sir David Gray]

Football's the only sport to have actually been made worse instead of better with video technology.

I really thought it would have been an improvement but it's been a bit of a disaster so far.

[Robbo6-2]

Its ruining the game.

Bad decisions are part and parcel of football and you just need to get on with it.

[Radium]

I’m in favour but it is ponderous atm.

Goal line technology of some sort is needed but is separate from VAR

Think the issue is that it was brought in to deal with injustices like the Henri handball but is fumbling around trying to find fouls at too many incidents.

Think that FIFA are allowing associations to use it in whatever way they see fit. Clearly in the hope that a someone comes up with an effective way to use it.

The communication with the crowd/ viewers need to be sorted. An area where you can look at cricket/ rugby


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[we are hibs]

Yes. People seem to have a go at VAR when it's rarely VAR's fault. If you're offside then you're offside. If you're off your line then you're off your line. These aren't subjective decisions yet people seem to want to blame VAR for getting these kind of decisions right according to the rules. It's not perfect but it's not the devil as some would have you believe.

[Liam6270]

Not a fan, I used to think if it was for offsides or a blatant dive then it might be be a good thing, now it’s just ruining the whole game I fell in love with. The only new introduction I like is goal line technology, quick and easy

[Saturday Boy]

Yes. People seem to have a go at VAR when it's rarely VAR's fault. If you're offside then you're offside. If you're off your line then you're off your line. These aren't subjective decisions yet people seem to want to blame VAR for getting these kind of decisions right according to the rules. It's not perfect but it's not the devil as some would have you believe.


The problem is that you’re standing in the stadium for five minutes or more, with absolutely no idea what’s going on.

And it’s crap referees correcting a decision made by a crap referee,

[MWHIBBIES]

Yes, without doubt. It needs to be refined a bit and referees make better decisions with its help but having technology to help refs is obviously a good thing.

The ones arguing against it remind me of Jonathan Pearce in this video


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HjIj_GlvLD4

[HibeeMackenzie]

It would be brilliant for the game if it was used differently. This stop start checking every tight call isn’t the way to go.
Could some sort of challenge system be implemented

[ballengeich]

It's useful when it corrects clear errors like the offside flag which initially disallowed Brazil's goal this evening. It shouldn't be used for decisions which the referee can't decide on a first, or at most second viewing. After that the on-field decision should stand e.g. for the disallowed French goal where the review took several minutes and it was a matter of opinion whether there was a foul.

[Liam6270]

Not a fan, I used to think if it was for offsides or a blatant dive then it might be be a good thing, now it’s just ruining the whole game I fell in love with. The only new introduction I like is goal line technology, quick and easy

[neil7908]

I'm a big fan but like all new technology it needs time to bed in and adapt to how the game is actually played. That includes refs getting more training, quicker decisions and consistency on its use.

Fans have come in expecting it to be perfect straight away but it was always going to take time for such a huge change to win people over.

In 5 years there won't be any debate on this, in the same way no one wants to go back to 2 points for a win or pass backs to the goalkeeper.

[Eyrie]

We're seeing the game being stopped for VAR to review whether a marginal decision is right or wrong which is ruining the flow of the game.

Keep it for clear and obvious errors, and limit the time the referee can spend looking at it. If the error can't be spotted in the first thirty seconds, then it wasn't clear and obvious so stay with the original call.

I have no problem with the marginal call made on the field being wrong if the alternative is five minutes of freeze frames. That also returns authority to the officials on the pitch, as at the moment they're shirking responsibility in the belief that VAR will sort it out.

[Criswell]

If a very marginal VAR decision goes for your team you'd probably think it was a good thing. However, if the next marginal goes against your team you might think differently!

[iwasthere1972]

Hard to celebrate a goal now. Not for me. Imagine if it was available at the Argentina v England match in 1986 and the hand of God goal was disallowed.

[The 90+2]

Definitely.

[The 90+2]

Hard to celebrate a goal now. Not for me. Imagine if it was available at the Argentina v England match in 1986 and the hand of God goal was disallowed.

As would the 1966 winner.

[Saturday Boy]

Hard to celebrate a goal now. Not for me. Imagine if it was available at the Argentina v England match in 1986 and the hand of God goal was disallowed.

I just wish it had been available in 1966.

[mayo hibee]

Of course it's a good thing. Anything that reduces the number of errors made by referees is to be welcomed. I would definitely refine its implementation, put the video up on the big screen and mic up the ref and the VAR room so that people can hear the rationale behind each decision, but the principle of VAR is good and it's here to stay.

[mayo hibee]

Hard to celebrate a goal now. Not for me. Imagine if it was available at the Argentina v England match in 1986 and the hand of God goal was disallowed.

The goal wouldn't have stood and Argentina would still have won the game. Don't see the relevance to be honest.

[Eyrie]

Of course it's a good thing. Anything that reduces the number of errors made by referees is to be welcomed. I would definitely refine its implementation, put the video up on the big screen and mic up the ref and the VAR room so that people can hear the rationale behind each decision, but the principle of VAR is good and it's here to stay.

How do you feel about McNulty being offside in the build up to Horgan's first goal at the Tiny PBS?

[Sir David Gray]

How do you feel about McNulty being offside in the build up to Horgan's first goal at the Tiny PBS?

Probably similar to the way the Hearts fans felt about the Oli Shaw and Leigh Griffiths goals both being ruled out despite both being over the line.

[The 90+2]

How do you feel about McNulty being offside in the build up to Horgan's first goal at the Tiny PBS?

Probably the opposite of Leigh’s goal or the offside goal at Tiny that was well onside. Or Ollies goal.

[Saturday Boy]

I take it that I’m still the only poster that’s had to suffer VAR at a game?

There’s a big difference between those who go to football matches and those who watch television.

If I’m at a game, I’m watching football. If I’m at home or in the pub, I’m watching television.

[Hibbyradge]

No. Killing the game.

It's really not.

It's changing it. And for the better.

Future generations will laugh at the fact that we used to put up with completely wrong decisions although they were obvious to everyone in the stadium and those watching on TV.

Its use will improve and the long delays will disappear.

Colin Campbell was brought down by Peter McCloy in the 1979 cup final, but no penalty was given. It was such a bad decision, that finding a video of it is almost impossible.

VAR helps refs get decisions right and exposes them when they don't.

[Archie70]

It's really not.

It's changing it. And for the better.

Future generations will laugh at the fact that we used to put up with completely wrong decisions although they were obvious to everyone in the stadium and those watching on TV.

Future generations will never know the debate and discussion we had that lasted for years... I am still raging about McCoy in 79...stone wall penalty.. we would have won the cup...blah blah. However for me the debates and the arguments, the points of view and the biased opinions are what absolutely makes the game. People still talk about 1966 but would they if there had been var... probably not.

It will kill the game

[Hibbyradge]

Future generations will never know the debate and discussion we had that lasted for years... I am still raging about McCoy in 79...stone wall penalty.. we would have won the cup...blah blah. However for me the debates and the arguments, the points of view and the biased opinions are what absolutely makes the game. People still talk about 1966 but would they if there had been var... probably not.

It will kill the game

I prefer good football and good decisions to arguments about mistakes.

The main reason we talk about 1966 is because England won and we wish they hadn't. If it had been Portugal v W Germany with the same incidents and result, we wouldn't discuss it at all. I remember several brilliant WC finals which didn't have glaring refereeing errors.

You might as well stop going now if you think that the game will die, because VAR is here to stay.

[Archie70]

I prefer good football and good decisions to arguments about mistakes.

There has been as many arguments about mistakes in the women’s World Cup than in any other and that’s with var

[MWHIBBIES]

Future generations will never know the debate and discussion we had that lasted for years... I am still raging about McCoy in 79...stone wall penalty.. we would have won the cup...blah blah. However for me the debates and the arguments, the points of view and the biased opinions are what absolutely makes the game. People still talk about 1966 but would they if there had been var... probably not.

It will kill the game

Yes, the biggest sport in the world will die because of video replays. The stadiums pulled down, the balls burst, the players working in supermarkets and down mines, the fans shopping with their wife's on Saturdays all because of video replays :faf:

Honestly, "it will kill the game", have a word...

[MWHIBBIES]

There has been as many arguments about mistakes in the women’s World Cup than in any other and that’s with var

The real world cup had it last summer and there was very few problems. So few actually that everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

[Scouse Hibee]

As would the 1966 winner.

You do know that England won 4-2?

And the goal has since been proved over the line as it would also have been with VAR.

[Hibbyradge]

There has been as many arguments about mistakes in the women’s World Cup than in any other and that’s with var

So why are you worrying about not having arguments?

[Haymaker]

It's really not.

It's changing it. And for the better.



I disagree, it's changing the game sure but for the worse.

I'm (and friends of mine) already getting bored watching games with it and I doubt it'll improve. Managers will end up arguing that every decision needs to be reviewed and the players will pressure referees to use it all the time to break up play.

It's not for me.

[DetroitHibs]

Saw the England vs Cameroon highlights. You can’t start giving goals that have been ruled offside. Every one of those defenders stopped and stared, the goalkeeper could have possibly been influenced too.

[tonyrougier123]

Probably the opposite of Leigh’s goal or the offside goal at Tiny that was well onside. Or Ollies goal.

Theres VAR which is crap,and thers goal line tech which is good for the game imo.

[InchHibby]

Yes, the biggest sport in the world will die because of video replays. The stadiums pulled down, the balls burst, the players working in supermarkets and down mines, the fans shopping with their wife's on Saturdays all because of video replays :faf:

Honestly, "it will kill the game", have a word...

Think you’ve taken it a bit far with the shopping with the wife bit. 😂

[Since452]

It's not for me

[blackpoolhibs]

The utter bedlam of your team scoring a goal has gone, and just for that reason i'd bin it. I no longer cheer when a goals scored, my first thought is will it be allowed.

Goal line tech is all we need, and i used to be all for VAR.

[Bangkok Hibby]

It would be brilliant for the game if it was used differently. This stop start checking every tight call isn’t the way to go.
Could some sort of challenge system be implemented

It will be brilliant for the game which is being spoilt by cheating, bad decisions etc. These bad decisions and a refusal to check on camera up to now have cost teams millions. Tennis gives the players 3 calls per set. That might be an idea but it's here to stay and once it's refined it'll be fine, just like other sports which use video technology to keep the game fair.

[hibsbollah]

The utter bedlam of your team scoring a goal has gone, and just for that reason i'd bin it. I no longer cheer when a goals scored, my first thought is will it be allowed.

Goal line tech is all we need, and i used to be all for VAR.

This is my biggest bugbear with it; I have stopped celebrating because I assume every goal is going to be checked. This changes everything for fans, by removing the spontaneity. The only sticking plaster would be Fifa/uefa investing some of this £2.7 billion 'contingency fund' they seem to have in ensuring all major stadia have giant screens that allow fans to know what's going on.

[Onion]

Whether we like it or not, there's no going back. Technology will increasingly find it's way into footie to remove doubt and human error. There's just too much money in the game now for £millions to rest on a wrong call at the highest level.

At the moment VAR is clunky, slow and in some cases killing what we love about the game. An obvious change is goal line technology replacing VAR for goalkeepers positioning at penalties, instantly sending a signal to the ref.

[Onion]

It will be brilliant for the game which is being spoilt by cheating, bad decisions etc. These bad decisions and a refusal to check on camera up to now have cost teams millions. Tennis gives the players 3 calls per set. That might be an idea but it's here to stay and once it's refined it'll be fine, just like other sports which use video technology to keep the game fair.

In time, video will itself be made redundant when the player's boots, strips, the ball, the goals, and the pitch all have multiple sensors in them to determine the position of the bal, the players (eg offside), touches on the ball, touches of opponents etc to remove most decision-making and the outcome will be instant. The technology already exists but would be too costly to implement and would make it much more difficult for authorities such as the SFA to manipulate results - hence it could be a generation before we see anything like that :wink:

[MWHIBBIES]

This is my biggest bugbear with it; I have stopped celebrating because I assume every goal is going to be checked. This changes everything for fans, by removing the spontaneity. The only sticking plaster would be Fifa/uefa investing some of this £2.7 billion 'contingency fund' they seem to have in ensuring all major stadia have giant screens that allow fans to know what's going on.


The utter bedlam of your team scoring a goal has gone, and just for that reason i'd bin it. I no longer cheer when a goals scored, my first thought is will it be allowed.

Goal line tech is all we need, and i used to be all for VAR.

VAR has never been used in a game involving Hibs so how have you stopped celebrating? Unless your clapping at the TV I guess?

[PatHead]

I take it that I’m still the only poster that’s had to suffer VAR at a game?

There’s a big difference between those who go to football matches and those who watch television.

If I’m at a game, I’m watching football. If I’m at home or in the pub, I’m watching television.

I have suffered it live. The big problem is it disrupts the flow of the match. Even if they had it on the big screen the game would stop and start.

It would take a lot of passion out of the support due to the momentum being taken out of the game.

Imagine if Lewis's wee shove in the cup final had resulted in a penalty or if the referee had disappeared for 5 minutes to check Stokey's equaliser? We would not have had the momentum. Sevco regroup and whole game changes.

It's rubbish. Just ensure referees and officials are better.

[Steve20]

It's took the emotion out of the game. Totally ruin it for people attending a match because you'll never be sure if a goal is going to checked for something or not.

But as has been pointed out, there will be no going back. So Football fans will have to accept the game has taking a turn for the worse.

[Sproule Three]

I take it that I’m still the only poster that’s had to suffer VAR at a game?

There’s a big difference between those who go to football matches and those who watch television.

If I’m at a game, I’m watching football. If I’m at home or in the pub, I’m watching television.
I’ve experienced it attending A league games here in Australia for past 2 seasons .
Im in favour of binning it.Every week there’s at least one game that VAR is the main talking point .
It’s been a disaster imo .Then again that might be because refs are not as good ( being kind here when referring to A league) as World Cup where it was less controversial .
As mentioned elsewhere goal line cameras are good .
Unequivocal- over line or not and game is not delayed.

[Hibby Bairn]

Why not just copy Tennis and Cricket where it works well and adds to the drama and atmosphere for those at the game and watching on tv?

Give each team captain 3 challenges per match after which nothing is looked at. Even then situations are only looked at if a challenge is made. Otherwise it is down to the ref.

[delbert]

Must admit that I have never been in favour of it. The ongoings at the woman's world Cup seems to cause more problems than it solves. If it has to be brought in it should only be used for clear cut decisions. Any thoughts?
Experienced it yesterday and it holds up the game too much. Obviously an American idea.

We used to scream blue murder when we perceived assistants were getting tight offsides wrong, now it looks like the screaming is even louder when VAR gets even tighter ones correct !! People suddenly saying that’s not what we meant, we didn’t mean it to be used like this because they are on the end of a few controversial (but correct) decisions. The main problem for me is that VAR is sanitising the spontaneity, passion and debate out of the game we love, because a debate over something which has been proved to be right or wrong isn’t much of a debate? It’s a flawed system possibly years away from being perfected and instead of actually helping match officials, it’s being used as a stick to further beat them with which is just crazy.

[malcolm]

It would be good if it was

* quick,
* only fixes the clear and obvious errors, and
* consistent

... it is none of these at the moment. It could be good but it’s not and it might yet be in tournaments but can’t see it ever being used here.. goal line yes var no :wink:

[hibsbollah]

VAR has never been used in a game involving Hibs so how have you stopped celebrating? Unless your clapping at the TV I guess?

I attended two Ligue 1 games this season with the 'check everything that happens in the box' VAR policy in place. Constant booing, everyone in the stadium seems to detest it.

[Sioux]

Consider a situation where its 0 : 0. hertz get a corner against Hibs in the 92nd minute. The ball's cleared and Hibs break out and 8 seconds later score at the other end.

Ref checks the corner and then decides that there was a shove somewhere in the penalty area at the corner. He gives hertz a penalty and they score. There's still debate after the game as to whether that decision was right or wrong.

I take it some would walk out the ground happy that so called fair play has prevailed? Never in a million years!

Pitch invasion!!!!!!

Some of the decisions that have been made defy belief. Especially hand ball. We now have a situation where from next season if a ball touches the arm or hand it will be a free kick/penalty. From now on any forward in the penalty area can, and will, deliberately aim to play the ball onto the arm/hand of an opponent and the result will be a penalty. There's no rule that disallows a forward to act in that manner.

So, even when VAR is asked to consider that type of decision, it was always inconclusive because its a subjective call. To avoid that they change the rule so the only criteria is: did the ball touch the hand or arm? VAR in these circumstances has been a total failure and has now moved on from correcting glaring referee errors of judgement to looking at anything that might impact on a critical passage of play (goal, penalty claim etc). Even then, the decision are down to the subjective view of a referee after he's looked at video evidence from a number of angles.

For me all that VAR has done is highlight the fact that there are different interpretations on any incident where a human has to make a decision. VAR has not changed that at all. And in its current form, never will.

[Stevie Reid]

Absolutely despise VAR.

[Caversham Green]

The utter bedlam of your team scoring a goal has gone, and just for that reason i'd bin it. I no longer cheer when a goals scored, my first thought is will it be allowed.

Goal line tech is all we need, and i used to be all for VAR.

Agreed. Just think if we'd had to sit and wait on a VAR decision on 21/6/16 - and then it was disallowed (I'm sure they'd have done their best to find something wrong).

Another drawback is that linesmen are no longer flagging for marginal offside because VAR will make the decision for them. That means that play goes on, the attacking team scores/someone is brought down in the box/someone gets injured and then play is brought back because there was an offside at the outset but the linesman didn't flag.

I think VAR has a place, but it's currently being over-used. IMO it should be used only where the referee has made a clear error, or for off the ball incidents and dives. Rather than analysing whether a player's shoulder is offside (as happened to Waghorn in the FA Cup) the VAR should simply consider whether the decision was blatantly wrong or not - one replay should usually be enough IMO.

[hibsbollah]

Consider a situation where its 0 : 0. hertz get a corner against Hibs in the 92nd minute. The ball's cleared and Hibs break out and 8 seconds later score at the other end.

Ref checks the corner and then decides that there was a shove somewhere in the penalty area at the corner. He gives hertz a penalty and they score. There's still debate after the game as to whether that decision was right or wrong.

I take it some would walk out the ground happy that so called fair play has prevailed? Never in a million years!

Pitch invasion!!!!!!

Some of the decisions that have been made defy belief. Especially hand ball. We now have a situation where from next season if a ball touches the arm or hand it will be a free kick/penalty. From now on any forward in the penalty area can, and will, deliberately aim to play the ball onto the arm/hand of an opponent and the result will be a penalty. There's no rule that disallows a forward to act in that manner.

So, even when VAR is asked to consider that type of decision, it was always inconclusive because its a subjective call. To avoid that they change the rule so the only criteria is: did the ball touch the hand or arm? VAR in these circumstances has been a total failure and has now moved on from correcting glaring referee errors of judgement to looking at anything that might impact on a critical passage of play (goal, penalty claim etc). Even then, the decision are down to the subjective view of a referee after he's looked at video evidence from a number of angles.

For me all that VAR has done is highlight the fact that there are different interpretations on any incident where a human has to make a decision. VAR has not changed that at all. And in its current form, never will.

I agree completely with all of that, and add into the mix the important element that everything always looks different slowed down to almost freeze frame.

[worcesterhibby]

Just to sum up...VAR is utter jobby.

[heretoday]

Ditch VAR. Keep the goalline technology so we can see if it's a goal.
Keep the game as simple as possible.

[PatHead]

Ditch VAR. Keep the goalline technology so we can see if it's a goal.
Keep the game as simple as possible.

And work on improving the standard of refereeing with the money saved.

[JohnM1875]

If we're going to use VAR fine. But don't use it until the referees are adequately trained in using it.

It's an utter joke that it's been rolled out just now with so many issues. Think it's having a negative effect.

[Future17]

Some of the decisions that have been made defy belief. Especially hand ball. We now have a situation where from next season if a ball touches the arm or hand it will be a free kick/penalty. From now on any forward in the penalty area can, and will, deliberately aim to play the ball onto the arm/hand of an opponent and the result will be a penalty. There's no rule that disallows a forward to act in that manner.

So, even when VAR is asked to consider that type of decision, it was always inconclusive because its a subjective call. To avoid that they change the rule so the only criteria is: did the ball touch the hand or arm? VAR in these circumstances has been a total failure and has now moved on from correcting glaring referee errors of judgement to looking at anything that might impact on a critical passage of play (goal, penalty claim etc). Even then, the decision are down to the subjective view of a referee after he's looked at video evidence from a number of angles.

I'm maybe misunderstanding you, but that is not the rule re: handball.


For me all that VAR has done is highlight the fact that there are different interpretations on any incident where a human has to make a decision. VAR has not changed that at all. And in its current form, never will.

I think this hits the nail on the head for me. VAR is a spotlight on both the standard of officiating and the creation/drafting of the rules. It's been a massive talking point in the Women's World Cup because a) it's the first major tournament where some of these rules are being implemented and b) the standard of officiating is so poor.

I like VAR as a concept, because, in theory, it should make the game more fair. The problem is that, at the moment, it's application is so inconsistent that it's actually being perceived as creating unfairness. I haven't seen it explained anywhere, but I don't understand how we got to the stage of using VAR to review the GK's position at penalty kicks - there's no scope for that based on IFAB's own VAR principles, so why is it happening?

Also, on the general point of poor officiating, the England v Cameroon match yesterday saw a lot of attention on VAR for England's second goal and Cameroon's disallowed goal, but I think both decisions were right. However, I think England's first and third goal were worth talking about; for me, it was never a backpass for the first goal and, for the third, the corner wasn't taken from inside corner area.

[mayo hibee]

Consider a situation where its 0 : 0. hertz get a corner against Hibs in the 92nd minute. The ball's cleared and Hibs break out and 8 seconds later score at the other end.

Ref checks the corner and then decides that there was a shove somewhere in the penalty area at the corner. He gives hertz a penalty and they score. There's still debate after the game as to whether that decision was right or wrong.

I take it some would walk out the ground happy that so called fair play has prevailed? Never in a million years!



And if the exact same thing happened in reverse and we benefitted from it you'd be devastated?

You can't bin VAR just because some day a decision might go against your own team because of it. Equally plenty of poor decisions that went against us over the years would have been corrected if it had been used.

TMO decisions have been in existence for nearly 20 years in rugby and you'd struggle to find a single rugby supporter who would want the system abandoned. Sometimes decisions go your way, sometimes they go against you. As long as more decisions are correct over the longer term than were previously it's worth keeping.

Especially in our league where there are regular suspicions of favouritism towards two teams in particular, everyone else should be pushing for the technology to be introduced.

[mayo hibee]

If we're going to use VAR fine. But don't use it until the referees are adequately trained in using it.

It's an utter joke that it's been rolled out just now with so many issues. Think it's having a negative effect.

It has be be tried out somewhere. I was surprised they brought it in for last year's World Cup but it actually went well. I would argue that a minor competition like the women's world cup is the perfect place to trial the system and make any needed changes.

The problem has been that the standard of referees has been as bad as the standard of football in this tournament, the VAR itself has been fine.

[CockneyRebel]

Just to sum up...VAR is utter jobby.


As the song goes - VAR what is it good for?

[hibbyfraelibby]

The Rugby version is much better and less comicated. FIFA have overthought the process. Maybe there should be an NFL style 3 challenge rule where the bench can ask for a review.

[MWHIBBIES]

The thing VAR has highlighted, which very few people actually seem to be talking about (easier to just blame the scary new technology I guess), is that referees are absolutely ****ing horrendous across the board.

[nickwhibs]

Ditch VAR. Keep the goalline technology so we can see if it's a goal.
Keep the game as simple as possible.

Agreed 👍

[Carheenlea]

With most of the decisions referees have to make being matter opinion, VAR can help with decision making but ultimately it’s still matter of opinion and arguments will continue to rage on over decisions.
Most people appear to be happy to have goal line technology, which largely is fact based, but VAR on the whole has been detrimental to the sport rather than an improvement.

[WeeRussell]

Was never for it in the first place and it's even worse than what I expected now it's being implemented.

Slowly but surely the gap that sets our great game apart from every other sh*t sport is being eroded.

Yes it's likely here to stay, but not because it's been a success. Those that made such a song and dance about how important it was to introduce VAR and invest so much money and effort into it, will be too stubborn to acknowledge that it's actually p1sh.

But it is p1sh.

[Smartie]

It should work but it hasn't really.

I don't really know how you can watch a game of football on TV with a beer in hand, see all of the replays and come up with a fairly good idea of which decisions are right and wrong yet it seems to be so difficult for VAR and qualified referees to get it right.

VAR itself isn't so much the problem but I think there are increasingly contentious areas regarding certain rules, such as handball.

I also think that referees feel obliged to change their minds when seeing the VAR, rather than stick to their guns if they look at the screen and don't see a penalty/ red card/ handball etc.

[overdrive]

What’s the phrase? “Don’t hate the player, hate the game”. In this case it is don’t hate the game, hate the player. It is crap referees that is at fault with VAR. The FIFA version of VAR makes it worse (so in this sense it is partly the game). They shouldn’t have the match referee view the incident. It should be more like the English version where a separate official (or team of them) makes the decision. That doesn’t negate the problem that a lot of refs are incompetent/corrupt. A third element comes into the FIFA version... self-protectionism.

[Jones28]

The concept is a positive, but the way it is being used just isn't working for whatever reason. I would argue that we've been screaming for help for referees for difficult decisions but this is still too much left to the ref and there are too many regulations with it.

[ekhibee]

The thing VAR has highlighted, which very few people actually seem to be talking about (easier to just blame the scary new technology I guess), is that referees are absolutely ****ing horrendous across the board.


This.

[Caversham Green]

The thing VAR has highlighted, which very few people actually seem to be talking about (easier to just blame the scary new technology I guess), is that referees are absolutely ****ing horrendous across the board.

I think that's unfair as a generalisation. Referees only get one look from one angle at any incident whereas TV viewers (and the VAR) get to see it from several angles, in slow motion with no crowd noise to influence them. The fact that players cheat as a matter of course - not just diving, but claiming for throw-ins, corners etc when they know they were last to touch the ball doesn't help.

VAR should in general be used to assist refs, but not to overrule them or make decisions for them. It's the watering down of iconic moments that I object to.

[Sylar]

The game needs technology, especially at the top level where marginal decisions aren't just the trigger of debates in pubs, households and online: these decisions are now worth a substantial amount of money to clubs at the top chasing titles and European berths, and those at the bottom fighting to keep their hands on a piece of the pie.

Goal-line technology alone isn't sufficient. It's great for stopping situations like Leigh or Ollie, but let's go back to THAT cup final. VAR would have awarded them a free kick and not a penalty. I'm not saying it changes the outcome, but it has an impact.

The handball rule is going to be a nonsense with or without VAR. That's where the quality of officials will come into play. Dealing with offsides is a situation where it SHOULD shine, but the way it's being implemented is causing all sorts of bother. The lady in the England vs Cameroon game yesterday was probably a stud offside. Again, that's perhaps a critique of the rule rather than the technology, but there's no "benefit of the doubt to the attacker" any longer.

The use of it to identify penalties in the box is valuable. The use of it at penalties to monitor the position of the goalkeeper's feet is not. The use of it to determine red cards that were missed by the officials is fine by me. But that still leaves some subjective decision making to be undertaken by the official team.

I think we need technology in the game - I just don't think the VAR exhibition during the World Cup is necessarily winning over any doubters.

[blackpoolhibs]

VAR has never been used in a game involving Hibs so how have you stopped celebrating? Unless your clapping at the TV I guess?

Watching the last international tournament, that was the beginning, the Euro's were spoilt when game after game you never knew when a goal was going to be given.

Then the Champions league final, never a penalty in my opinion, and the constant reference to VAR looking at incidents has ruined the game FOR ME.

Not sure if you only celebrate goals when Hibs are playing, but i can still get excited when other teams are playing?

[Smartie]

Nothing to do with VAR but I don't properly celebrate a Hibs goal until I've glanced at the linesman and referee to see if the goal has been given.

That is unless there has been absolutely nothing contentious in the build up to the goal.

[WeeRussell]

I know the day is coming soon where my coupon for a life-changing sum is burst 5 minutes after being up. That will be a very sad and sore one.

I've lost coupons every other way though so why not :rolleyes:

[Risboro Hibby]

I hate it!
I do agree with goal line technology. VAR is just another example of the game being ruined by big money. Their argument is there is so much at stake to just accept the referee has made a mistake irritates me. First and foremost it is a game. If you can’t have VAR at all levels of the game then it shouldn’t be allowed just for the big leagues. All my football life I have been told the referee decision is final. Whether we agree with that decision or not we can debate on here or in the pub afterwards. It is one of the fundamentals of our game that makes it so exciting and unpredictable

[Baader]

Was all for it but the way it's being implemented is all wrong and it's spoiling the game.

Sort it or just get rid. Goalline technology works well.

[berwickhibee]

Fast becoming a farce. Please bin it.

[BILLYHIBS]

After watching England v Cameroon last night I could feel myself falling out of love with the game

[worcesterhibby]

I hate it!
I do agree with goal line technology. VAR is just another example of the game being ruined by big money. Their argument is there is so much at stake to just accept the referee has made a mistake irritates me. First and foremost it is a game. If you can’t have VAR at all levels of the game then it shouldn’t be allowed just for the big leagues. All my football life I have been told the referee decision is final. Whether we agree with that decision or not we can debate on here or in the pub afterwards. It is one of the fundamentals of our game that makes it so exciting and unpredictable

This exactly. It does my nut in when people say that we have to change the rules of football and the way the game is played because there is so much money at stake...tough..don't invest in football if you are scared of losing money. Sport should reflect life and life is generally unfair at times. Good people have bad stuff happen to them through no fault of their own, but with courage, grit and determination you overcome those struggles. Sport at it's best reflects that and teams pick themselves up from a poor decision and go again.

I really wish someone would start an online petition to stop VAR from being introduced to Scottish football. I would sign.

[Sammy7nil]

And if the exact same thing happened in reverse and we benefitted from it you'd be devastated?

You can't bin VAR just because some day a decision might go against your own team because of it. Equally plenty of poor decisions that went against us over the years would have been corrected if it had been used.

TMO decisions have been in existence for nearly 20 years in rugby and you'd struggle to find a single rugby supporter who would want the system abandoned. Sometimes decisions go your way, sometimes they go against you. As long as more decisions are correct over the longer term than were previously it's worth keeping.

Especially in our league where there are regular suspicions of favouritism towards two teams in particular, everyone else should be pushing for the technology to be introduced.

:top marks

[superfurryhibby]

I hate it!
I do agree with goal line technology. VAR is just another example of the game being ruined by big money. Their argument is there is so much at stake to just accept the referee has made a mistake irritates me. First and foremost it is a game. If you can’t have VAR at all levels of the game then it shouldn’t be allowed just for the big leagues. All my football life I have been told the referee decision is final. Whether we agree with that decision or not we can debate on here or in the pub afterwards. It is one of the fundamentals of our game that makes it so exciting and unpredictable


And if the exact same thing happened in reverse and we benefitted from it you'd be devastated?

You can't bin VAR just because some day a decision might go against your own team because of it. Equally plenty of poor decisions that went against us over the years would have been corrected if it had been used.

TMO decisions have been in existence for nearly 20 years in rugby and you'd struggle to find a single rugby supporter who would want the system abandoned. Sometimes decisions go your way, sometimes they go against you. As long as more decisions are correct over the longer term than were previously it's worth keeping.

Especially in our league where there are regular suspicions of favouritism towards two teams in particular, everyone else should be pushing for the technology to be introduced.

I agree with much of both arguments on VAR.

I like the idea that it might makes Scottish referees more even handed in their decision making.

I don’t agree that it’s necessary to have it all levels of the game, even at a professional level though, that’s totally impractical.

[Andymac85]

Nope, can’t use things like VAR for subjective decisions.

[WeeRussell]

And if the exact same thing happened in reverse and we benefitted from it you'd be devastated?

You can't bin VAR just because some day a decision might go against your own team because of it. Equally plenty of poor decisions that went against us over the years would have been corrected if it had been used.

TMO decisions have been in existence for nearly 20 years in rugby and you'd struggle to find a single rugby supporter who would want the system abandoned. Sometimes decisions go your way, sometimes they go against you. As long as more decisions are correct over the longer term than were previously it's worth keeping.

Especially in our league where there are regular suspicions of favouritism towards two teams in particular, everyone else should be pushing for the technology to be introduced.

I agree, I don’t think many would want rid of it in rugby including myself. It works well in rugby.

This isn’t rugby though. So far I haven’t seen anything to make me think our game is better for introducing VAR. very much the opposite in fact.

If in time i change my mind I’ll be happy to hold my hands up and acknowledge it. Right now I wish it had never been an option.

[eastcoasthibby]

The Rugby version is much better and less comicated. FIFA have overthought the process. Maybe there should be an NFL style 3 challenge rule where the bench can ask for a review.

The rugby version is better cos the officiating is better to start with and the VAR is fair and honest ... professional !

[Smartie]

The rugby version is better cos the officiating is better to start with and the VAR is fair and honest ... professional !

Rugby, in my opinion, leaves a bit less open to interpretation.

Referees can make more accurate calls when there is less subjectivity involved.

The problem with VAR is that getting the decision right still relies entirely on the referee's opinion.

I'm more chilled out about it and more prepared to accept a referee's "incorrect" decision when I know they've had a good gawk at it on a screen rather than make a decision based on something that happened in a game rampaging away at 100mph whilst they're looking through a ruck of bodies in the opposite direction to where an incident has happened.

[ancient hibee]

Rugby, in my opinion, leaves a bit less open to interpretation.

Referees can make more accurate calls when there is less subjectivity involved.

The problem with VAR is that getting the decision right still relies entirely on the referee's opinion.

I'm more chilled out about it and more prepared to accept a referee's "incorrect" decision when I know they've had a good gawk at it on a screen rather than make a decision based on something that happened in a game rampaging away at 100mph whilst they're looking through a ruck of bodies in the opposite direction to where an incident has happened.

Think you’re wide of the mark re rugby.Practically every penalty particularly when the ball is on the deck can go either way.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It can be good for the game, in my opinion, but it's a matter of how it's used. The idea that it would only be employed for 'clear and obvious errors' e.g. offside, seems to have been supplanted by all sorts of marginal decisions being reviewed, which take an age to be resolved, destroying the flow of the game. It has been used far too much in the Women's World Cup, often inappropriately. FIFA needs to clarify the circumstances in which VAR should be used, making sure it is strictly limited to the prescribed types of incident.

[Glory Lurker]

It can be good for the game, in my opinion, but it's a matter of how it's used. The idea that it would only be employed for 'clear and obvious errors' e.g. offside, seems to have been supplanted by all sorts of marginal decisions being reviewed, which take an age to be resolved, destroying the flow of the game. It has been used far too much in the Women's World Cup, often inappropriately. FIFA needs to clarify the circumstances in which VAR should be used, making sure it is strictly limited to the prescribed types of incident.

I've mentioned out already tonight, but Scotland's penalty claims against Japan not getting VAR treatment was very poor. An instance not of overuse but of not being used when it should have been. It bothers me that the very decision to refer to it is subjective. That can't be changed and is as much a risk as overuse imho.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I've mentioned out already tonight, but Scotland's penalty claims against Japan not getting VAR treatment was very poor. An instance not of overuse but of not being used when it should have been. It bothers me that the very decision to refer to it is subjective. That can't be changed and is as much a risk as overuse imho.

Indeed, hence I would rather err on the side of caution and remove subjective decisions from VAR as much as possible. It can be very helpful with offsides, for example, but can create more problems than it solves with decisions like handball.

[Sylar]

I hate it!
I do agree with goal line technology. VAR is just another example of the game being ruined by big money. Their argument is there is so much at stake to just accept the referee has made a mistake irritates me. First and foremost it is a game. If you can’t have VAR at all levels of the game then it shouldn’t be allowed just for the big leagues. All my football life I have been told the referee decision is final. Whether we agree with that decision or not we can debate on here or in the pub afterwards. It is one of the fundamentals of our game that makes it so exciting and unpredictable

It's not a game for the players, who's salary is dictated by what league their team play in during the following season. Or the owners, who invest money into clubs to attract sponsors, fans through the gate and new players to the club on an annual basis. Exposure at a lower level, or missing out on Europe is a business impact. And that can occur as the result of just one dodgy decision (or a number throughout the season).

We have the luxury of it "just being a game", being able to get caught up in a rapture for 90 minutes and then blowing opinions out of our ***** about it for the many weeks, months and years that follow. The players though, have to live and (metaphorically) die by the results they amass - whether or not a club can afford to keep certain players on does depend on the level of investment (through sponsorship and TV revenue), and that depends on the level the club are able to operate at.


This exactly. It does my nut in when people say that we have to change the rules of football and the way the game is played because there is so much money at stake...tough..don't invest in football if you are scared of losing money. Sport should reflect life and life is generally unfair at times. Good people have bad stuff happen to them through no fault of their own, but with courage, grit and determination you overcome those struggles. Sport at it's best reflects that and teams pick themselves up from a poor decision and go again.

I really wish someone would start an online petition to stop VAR from being introduced to Scottish football. I would sign.

If people didn't invest in the game, you'd be as well watching your local junior team on a weekly basis. Easter Road, East Mains, the current playing squad, the processes and supply chains that bring together the new strips everyone's been clammering for, the new signings everyone wants to see happen - none of that happens without investment. And I'm aware that the investment has been there long before VAR etc but for clubs living at the margins of Europe or relegation, these decisions CAN change the available budgets for the following season. We obviously finished well off the pace last year, but how would you have felt if Killie's penalty at Rugby Park last season had been the defining moment between us getting into Europe or not?

Sport has a number of great stories about people picking themselves up after defeats/bad decisions and going again - VAR doesn't remove that narrative, but it has the potential to remove the injustices associated with inept or downright corrupt officiating.

Despite it's problems during this world cup, I'd love to see it introduced up here - it would remove the number of stupid penalties and decisions the OF get on a weekly basis and level the playing field a little with regards to the officials.

[worcesterhibby]

If people didn't invest in the game, you'd be as well watching your local junior team on a weekly basis. Easter Road, East Mains, the current playing squad, the processes and supply chains that bring together the new strips everyone's been clammering for, the new signings everyone wants to see happen - none of that happens without investment. And I'm aware that the investment has been there long before VAR etc but for clubs living at the margins of Europe or relegation, these decisions CAN change the available budgets for the following season. We obviously finished well off the pace last year, but how would you have felt if Killie's penalty at Rugby Park last season had been the defining moment between us getting into Europe or not?

Sport has a number of great stories about people picking themselves up after defeats/bad decisions and going again - VAR doesn't remove that narrative, but it has the potential to remove the injustices associated with inept or downright corrupt officiating.

Despite it's problems during this world cup, I'd love to see it introduced up here - it would remove the number of stupid penalties and decisions the OF get on a weekly basis and level the playing field a little with regards to the officials.

Who invests in Hibs ? .....The fans..not big business, not American conglomerates....you and me. If VAR makes the game boring, stop/start and we lose the essence of football, then we lose the fans and therefore the investment. If we kill the game by turning it into a video replay show that no one inside the ground can see we will lose fans who are sick of never getting to celebrate a goal until 5-6 minutes after it was scored. I have no faith at all that it would make any difference to Old Firm Bias anyway..the decision to use VAR or not is still the referees and as we saw from the Scotland V Japan Game in the WWC a poor or biased referee can just decide not to refer to VAR when they fancy it.

The Scottish Game is actually on the up at the moment. Hibs crowds are at record levels...will we see more fans in the ground if we introduce VAR ? of course not...VAR is all about sitting in front of the TV watching Sky and seeing the replays, not being a proper supporter inside the ground who don't have a clue what is happening and whose enjoyment is spoiled by the constant interruptions to the game.

I will keep arguing about this, because I am VERY VERY worried that this is going to be a huge mistake for football. At the very least the Scottish game should give it 3-5 years before making a decision..let other league try it and see how it works...and remember, for VAR to work you need LOTS of very high quality cameras operated by high quality cameramen. The EPL might be able to afford it, but any Scottish version of VAR is likely to be run using 3 GOPRO's and someone's smartphone. You also need double or treble the numbers of high quality Referees...where the hell are they coming from ?

[worcesterhibby]

online petition demanding that VAR is removed from football. Please sign.

http://chng.it/nghckhBjpW

[MWHIBBIES]

How does a video replay cost a team the tournament? I can't fathom how this is VAR to blame and not terrible referees. Always the idea to blame, never the execution.

[worcesterhibby]

How does a video replay cost a team the tournament? I can't fathom how this is VAR to blame and not terrible referees. Always the idea to blame, never the execution.

It doesn't...I disagree with that line of the petition...but I do agree with the rest.

[PH91]

As the song goes - VAR what is it good for?

Brilliant.

[Bangkok Hibby]

online petition demanding that VAR is removed from football. Please sign.

http://chng.it/nghckhBjpW

No

[we are hibs]

online petition demanding that VAR is removed from football. Please sign.

http://chng.it/nghckhBjpW


57 people signed. That'll be FIFA told :hilarious:

[WeeRussell]

It's not a game for the players, who's salary is dictated by what league their team play in during the following season. Or the owners, who invest money into clubs to attract sponsors, fans through the gate and new players to the club on an annual basis. Exposure at a lower level, or missing out on Europe is a business impact. And that can occur as the result of just one dodgy decision (or a number throughout the season).

We have the luxury of it "just being a game", being able to get caught up in a rapture for 90 minutes and then blowing opinions out of our ***** about it for the many weeks, months and years that follow. The players though, have to live and (metaphorically) die by the results they amass - whether or not a club can afford to keep certain players on does depend on the level of investment (through sponsorship and TV revenue), and that depends on the level the club are able to operate at.



If people didn't invest in the game, you'd be as well watching your local junior team on a weekly basis. Easter Road, East Mains, the current playing squad, the processes and supply chains that bring together the new strips everyone's been clammering for, the new signings everyone wants to see happen - none of that happens without investment. And I'm aware that the investment has been there long before VAR etc but for clubs living at the margins of Europe or relegation, these decisions CAN change the available budgets for the following season. We obviously finished well off the pace last year, but how would you have felt if Killie's penalty at Rugby Park last season had been the defining moment between us getting into Europe or not?

Sport has a number of great stories about people picking themselves up after defeats/bad decisions and going again - VAR doesn't remove that narrative, but it has the potential to remove the injustices associated with inept or downright corrupt officiating.

Despite it's problems during this world cup, I'd love to see it introduced up here - it would remove the number of stupid penalties and decisions the OF get on a weekly basis and level the playing field a little with regards to the officials.

Would it though? How often are clear as day wrong decisions shown on highlights after games etc and the authorities fail to take the appropriate action. If there is a bias, dodgy officiating or refs under pressure to give decisions favouring the Old Firm, I don't think it's because of a lack of technology. It would still be the same types of people choosing when to use said technology and how to apply it, in my opinion.

[WeeRussell]

Rugby, in my opinion, leaves a bit less open to interpretation.

Referees can make more accurate calls when there is less subjectivity involved.

The problem with VAR is that getting the decision right still relies entirely on the referee's opinion.

I'm more chilled out about it and more prepared to accept a referee's "incorrect" decision when I know they've had a good gawk at it on a screen rather than make a decision based on something that happened in a game rampaging away at 100mph whilst they're looking through a ruck of bodies in the opposite direction to where an incident has happened.

Even if it takes away from the best thing in sport - that elation of scoring a goal the second the ball hits the back of the net? It's bad enough the rare occurrences where the ref goes and consults his assistant before confirming the goal or otherwise, never mind standing for minutes after almost every goal that is scored wondering if a review is suddenly going to take place, and if the wonder strike you've just scored to win the game is eventually going to count.

I quite like the idea of a ref knowing when the ball has crossed the line due to technology. Anything else is not for me, and the above is the main reason why. That and the whole circus around VAR right now.. almost every time I switch on the women's world cup, there's some sort of VAR referral or at least reference within a few minutes.

A total farce, for me.

[where'stheslope]

The VAR incidents on penalties so far has been a joke, last night USA got their second penalty after it was reviewed you could clearly see there was no contact as the players leg never moved when supposedly hit from the side????
Then when it comes to the kick, the keeper is reminded that they will be booked if they come off their line before the ball is kicked, so they now are concentrating on their feet not the ball????
OK they've changed the rule at shoot outs? So now there is 2 rules for penalties in the same game???
It all looks to me like its a system to help favourites, as so far most decisions have gone to the more fancied teams in the tournament!!!
I think its time to bin VAR in Scottish football as it will only further help the Ugly Sisters, goal line technology is more what we need!!!!

[Alan62]

The thing with VAR is that it's supposed to remove doubt from major decisions and correct 'clear and obvious' refereeing errors. Yet it's only applied selectively in a game where clearly, every move, every pass, every run, every decision is connected.

Although, in the Women's World Cup, VAR's deficiencies have been exacerbated by poor quality officiating, the very idea of VAR is fundamentally flawed.

For example, in the Scotland v Japan game at the Women's World Cup, a Scotland player was flagged offside when she was undoubtedly onside. VAR has no means to correct a mistake like this yet, less than a minute after that incorrect decision, Japan had scored. The move that resulted in the Japanese goal completely hinged on that offside decision. Without the free kick for offside, the goal wouldn't have happened.

However, VAR can intervene if the offside is part of the immediate build-up to a goal. They'll freeze the play the moment they think the ball was played and draw the lines between the last millimeter of defender and the first micron of attacker and then decide if the goal should stand.

This approach means that offside decisions are no longer equal. Somehow, the offside that happens (or doesn't happen) in a few seconds before a goal is scored, is more important than a vital call maybe 40 seconds before a goal. Yet, clearly, both can have a major impact on the game.

For me, mistakes are part of the game. A mistimed tackle, a careless backpass, a wrong flag, a daft call by a referee, they're all just part of the game. Professionalism and higher standards can help to reduce the mistakes all round but it's impossible to eliminate them completely. More to the point, VAR has not, and will not, clear up controversial decisions because there are times that no matter how many angles you watch in slow-mo, you still can't call it one way or the other.

Let's get rid of it before it spoils the game completely.

[Jones28]

Think you’re wide of the mark re rugby.Practically every penalty particularly when the ball is on the deck can go either way.

I would agree with that, there are rules in place but the referees interpretation is not as scrutinised as it is in football.