Players budget

[Since90+2]

Are we not being abit hypocritical if the club have decided against having alcohol sponsors as has been suggested by some? The club will shift lots of alcohol in hospitality and behind the goals and are happy to take the income from that however it's been suggested we shouldn't be sponsored by the alcohol industry.

Behind the goals in particular is an area where lots of folk with young kids attend and will no doubt be in the company of adults consuming alcohol. If we are happy to provide an area where young kids will be whilst alcohol is served , consumed and a profit made from its sale how is that any different to being sponsored by a beer or cider company?

[DetroitHibs]

And what if someone offered £20k? Should the club have accepted that?

Basically we have no idea what happened so I don't understand all the bumping of gums.

We never have any idea as we are basically told **** all from the club. They want a fan based ownership, but we are privy to zero financial information.

[PH91]

I assume you are one of the fan rep's.

I know you are not privy to the negotiation, and will be quoting leeanns briefing.

But, with respect this should have been sorted 12 months ago, especially given leeanns background.

It is a commercial fiasco, and if it happened in the company I worked for, people would have walked.

Two offers on the table, sorry I love my club, but that is truly woeful

What would you like to happen now? What would make you feel less aggrieved?

Hibs to announce to the world the reason why we couldnt attract a sponsor? Or announce the figures the were offered? LD to walk? LD to personally apologise to you? To all the fans?

[Peevemor]

I assume you are one of the fan rep's.

I know you are not privy to the negotiation, and will be quoting leeanns briefing.

But, with respect this should have been sorted 12 months ago, especially given leeanns background.

It is a commercial fiasco, and if it happened in the company I worked for, people would have walked.

Two offers on the table, sorry I love my club, but that is truly woefulHave you considered that it may not be the club's fault?

For example, the Brexit fiasco has ringpieces twitching in company boardrooms nationwide (and beyond).

There could be any number of reasons that a 99% certain potential sponsor might back out.

[Peevemor]

We never have any idea as we are basically told **** all from the club. They want a fan based ownership, but we are privy to zero financial information.Do you understand why certain information shouldn't be made public?

[Caversham Green]

What would you like to happen now? What would make you feel less aggrieved?

Hibs to announce to the world the reason why we couldnt attract a sponsor? Or announce the figures the were offered? LD to walk? LD to personally apologise to you? To all the fans?

To be fair, I don't think anyone is in much doubt that Hibs have missed the chance of some income and we're now being spun a line. In an ideal world Leeann would say yes, we've missed an opportunity but we're making the best of a bad deal. However, in the world we're living in, and given the drama queenery evident on this thread, if she did that there would be calls for someone to lose their job and threats to cancel subscriptions to HSL.

In the grand scheme of things it's just not that big a deal. We'll be fine next season, the football budget will be as much as the club can afford and life will go on. The helipad will have to wait another season though.

[PH91]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is in much doubt that Hibs have missed the chance of some income and we're now being spun a line. In an ideal world Leeann would say yes, we've missed an opportunity but we're making the best of a bad deal. However, in the world we're living in, and given the drama queenery evident on this thread, if she did that there would be calls for someone to lose their job and threats to cancel subscriptions to HSL.

In the grand scheme of things it's just not that big a deal. We'll be fine next season, the football budget will be as much as the club can afford and life will go on. The helipad will have to wait another season though.

:aok:

[CockneyRebel]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is in much doubt that Hibs have missed the chance of some income and we're now being spun a line. In an ideal world Leeann would say yes, we've missed an opportunity but we're making the best of a bad deal. However, in the world we're living in, and given (1)the drama queenery evident on this thread, if she did that there would be calls for someone to lose their job and threats to cancel subscriptions to HSL.

(2)In the grand scheme of things it's just not that big a deal. We'll be fine next season, the football budget will be as much as the club can afford and life will go on. The helipad will have to wait another season though.

(1) I like this turn of phrase.

(2) I second that emulsion.

[Since90+2]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is in much doubt that Hibs have missed the chance of some income and we're now being spun a line. In an ideal world Leeann would say yes, we've missed an opportunity but we're making the best of a bad deal. However, in the world we're living in, and given the drama queenery evident on this thread, if she did that there would be calls for someone to lose their job and threats to cancel subscriptions to HSL.

In the grand scheme of things it's just not that big a deal. We'll be fine next season, the football budget will be as much as the club can afford and life will go on. The helipad will have to wait another season though.

Have to disagree on your second point. Hibs not being able to secure a main shirt sponsor, and the likely £200,000 or so that would likely have been invested into the club , is a fairly big deal.

That sort of money is a significant sum to a club like Hibs.

[Caversham Green]

Have to disagree on your second point. Hibs not being able to secure a main shirt sponsor, and the likely £200,000 or so that would likely have been invested into the club , is a fairly big deal.

That sort of money is a significant sum to a club like Hibs.

Where was £200,000 coming from? How many clubs are getting that sort of money from the slogans on their shirts?

[The 90+2]

That's good enough. Ta.

Me too. 👍

[matty_f]

We never have any idea as we are basically told **** all from the club. They want a fan based ownership, but we are privy to zero financial information.

I think you struggle to with some of the stuff being discussed, to be honest.

Your post makes no real sense.

[DetroitHibs]

I think you struggle to with some of the stuff being discussed, to be honest.

Your post makes no real sense.

Do you have an idea? We have one person saying the deal could be £20,000 and another saying £200,000. We don’t know what was turned down, or offered. Every other SPL club is sponsored. Some will be making more than others. Our board of directors had 12 months to find a club sponsorship and has failed to do so.

[B.H.F.C]

Do you have an idea? We have one person saying the deal could be £20,000 and another saying £200,000. We don’t know what was turned down, or offered. Every other SPL club is sponsored. Some will be making more than others. Our board of directors had 12 months to find a club sponsorship and has failed to do so.

I think it’s fine to be disappointed with the failure to secure a sponsor. That’s what I think it is, a failure, and I think they deserve criticism for it.

Expecting the club to disclose anything to do with commercial negotiations is silly though.

[easty]

I’m not sure what folk mean when they ask “what do you want the club to say about it?” and things like that.

I’m not arsed what the club have to say about it. I don’t care about the reasons. I am bothered that, in a league where money is already tight, we’ve failed to sort out a sponsorship deal. There’s no way that bringing in less money is better than bringing in more. It’s a failure by the club.

Doesn’t mean I’m not behind the team for the coming season. Doesn’t mean that I want the board sacked. Just means I want us to be as competitive on the pitch as possible, and believe that the more money we bring in, the more chance we have of moving forward and being more competitive.

[DetroitHibs]

I think it’s fine to be disappointed with the failure to secure a sponsor. That’s what I think it is, a failure, and I think they deserve criticism for it.

Expecting the club to disclose anything to do with commercial negotiations is silly though.

I don’t expect the fine details of the deal. When the announced the last deal no figures were given, but they did confirm it was a six figure deal. In this case, if the club had said we turned down a five figure deal that didn’t match our evaluation, this thread wouldn’t even be relevant. Just a rough idea would go a long way.

[Eyrie]

I don’t expect the fine details of the deal. When the announced the last deal no figures were given, but they did confirm it was a six figure deal. In this case, if the club had said we turned down a five figure deal that didn’t match our evaluation, this thread wouldn’t even be relevant. Just a rough idea would go a long way.

What level of detail does your boss share with you about confidential negotiations?

Or if you're the boss, what level do you share with your staff?

[Scouse Hibee]

It won't affect the playing budget so nothing to be concerned about really.

[DetroitHibs]

What level of detail does your boss share with you about confidential negotiations?

Or if you're the boss, what level do you share with your staff?

I dont ask my staff for money to help fund and run my business. The fans are the bloodline of the club, not Petrie, Farmer or Dempster. Without us fans the club dies. The club disclosed the facts that we had secured a six figure deal with the previous sponsorship. Why not disclose what digit figure we turned down.

[DarlingtonHibee]

It won't affect the playing budget so nothing to be concerned about really.

That's the party line, but we are missing commercial partner money.

Could have been used for a couple of sign on fees.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe we will sell more strips as there is no crappy sponsor logo on it?


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[Eyrie]

I dont ask my staff for money to help fund and run my business. The fans are the bloodline of the club, not Petrie, Farmer or Dempster. Without us fans the club dies. The club disclosed the facts that we had secured a six figure deal with the previous sponsorship. Why not disclose what digit figure we turned down.

You won't have a business if your staff don't turn up. They're the ones doing the work which lets you do the management.

And your customers fund your business, so how much do you share with them?

[Scouse Hibee]

That's the party line, but we are missing commercial partner money.

Could have been used for a couple of sign on fees.


It also could have been used to paint the stadium, buy new equipment, improve the catering, tarmac the car park etc, etc etc............................................... ..................

The budget for players wages and future transfers sign on fees is already set and won't be altered by the lack of a shirt sponsor. The club is always looking at ways to develop and increase the financial input from existing commercial partners and indeed have done so. You ask for clarity from the club then dismiss what ever they say as "the party line"?

There has been a statement about the situation and that was all that was required, why would any business want to give out a figure in £'s?

We are missing commercial partner money but it won't affect the paying budget, other budgets and cost cutting will be made in order to ensure that is the case, can't really see any other explanation is required.

[Scouse Hibee]

Maybe we will sell more strips as there is no crappy sponsor logo on it?


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:agree: I tend to agree, who wants to walk round with some crap sponsor on their shirt when they can have a nice sponsor free one.

[DarlingtonHibee]

It also could have been used to paint the stadium, buy new equipment, improve the catering, tarmac the car park etc, etc etc............................................... ..................

The budget for players wages and future transfers sign on fees is already set and won't be altered by the lack of a shirt sponsor. The club is always looking at ways to develop and increase the financial input from existing commercial partners and indeed have done so. You ask for clarity from the club then dismiss what ever they say as "the party line"?

There has been a statement about the situation and that was all that was required, why would any business want to give out a figure in £'s?

We are missing commercial partner money but it won't affect the paying budget, other budgets and cost cutting will be made in order to ensure that is the case, can't really see any other explanation is required.

Can't agree with you, we have missed a revenue stream, big time, it does affect the playing budget.
But I will respect your view.

[The 90+2]

:agree: I tend to agree, who wants to walk round with some crap sponsor on their shirt when they can have a nice sponsor free one.

Even though it looks like a training top? Or a top of a club who’s filed to secure a sponsor? I’ll get the kids ones with the logo on it because it looks like the strip the team will have on.

[B.H.F.C]

We are missing commercial partner money but it won't affect the paying budget, other budgets and cost cutting will be made in order to ensure that is the case, can't really see any other explanation is required.

The playing budget won’t be reduced but we won’t have the opportunity to increase it. And some other areas of might need costs cut and suffer as a result.

In the last few months we’ve been told we’ll be spending 100k on CCTV but been assured it won’t affect the budget. Now we’re paying someone to be on the front of the strip, rather than someone paying us, but again it won’t affect the budget.

Whilst it’s not affecting the budget in the sense that we don’t need to reduce what we set it at, it’s a lot of money that could have been added to the budget that won’t be.

[DetroitHibs]

You won't have a business if your staff don't turn up. They're the ones doing the work which lets you do the management.

And your customers fund your business, so how much do you share with them?

Its not even close to being the same as supporting a football club. We are entering a fans owned club. A business is not owned by employees or customers. If I had customers and employees buying shares in my business, then yes I would disclose with them major dealing.

[Scouse Hibee]

Can't agree with you, we have missed a revenue stream, big time, it does affect the playing budget.
But I will respect your view.

It’s not my view it’s the clubs, which you blatantly choose to ignore, however that’s up to you. I’ll leave you to it. 👍

[Scouse Hibee]

Even though it looks like a training top? Or a top of a club who’s filed to secure a sponsor? I’ll get the kids ones with the logo on it because it looks like the strip the team will have on.

It doesn’t look like a training top it’s a strip without a crap name on it to me. I fully appreciate that kids want to wear the same shirts as the players including the logo though, can’t be pretending to be a player without the same shirt 👍

[DarlingtonHibee]

It’s not my view it’s the clubs, which you blatantly choose to ignore, however that’s up to you. I’ll leave you to it. 👍

Thanks.

Personal view.

We knew a year ago that we were looking for a new commercial partner.

We are the only club not to have a shirt sponsor.

[GreenOnions]

As I understand it Sir Tom Farmer rescued Hibs not because of our on-field displays but because of the importance of the club as a whole in the community of Leith and Edinburgh.

I support Hibs for a number of reasons and one of them is what I perceive to be the club's ethos. Developing partnerships with local organisations such as The Foundation would certainly seem to me to something we should focus on.

I also feel that, unlike our neighbours, Hibs are generally not prepared to seek success at the expense of our values.

Irrespective of how it transpired I have been in favour of refusing shirt sponsorship from gambling and alcohol companies for a considerable time.

This does not mean the club shouldn't sell alcohol at the stadium etc. Shirt sponsorship is something that has a direct impact on children whether or not the logos are allowed on kids' strips. Children will have pictures of their idols on their walls, 'phones etc and the shirt sponsor's name is always prominent. People even refer to previous strips by the name of the sponsor at that time.

The argument about financial impact is a.different one. However - I am proud of the fact that we are leading on this issue - an issue that will (quite rightly) continue to run over the next few years IMHO

[tonyrougier123]

Can't agree with you, we have missed a revenue stream, big time, it does affect the playing budget.
But I will respect your view.

Tbf how would anybody actually know if the playing budget has been affected,we might have a really good season and nobody will actually b bothered,but thers a flipside to that.personally I see it as good but I ken where ur coming from,with missed income.

[Peevemor]

The most ridiculous thing about this thread are the folk (who have never run a professional football club) suggesting that Leeann Dempster is incompetent.

I leave it there.

[Jones28]

We never have any idea as we are basically told **** all from the club. They want a fan based ownership, but we are privy to zero financial information.

Because it's commercially sensitive? How are people not understanding this?

[Jones28]

Thanks.

Personal view.

We knew a year ago that we were looking for a new commercial partner.

We are the only club not to have a shirt sponsor.

We do, the Hibs Community Foundation.

[Heisenberg]

Because it's commercially sensitive? How are people not understanding this?

Would imagine these will be the same folk who demand to know absolutely everything about our transfer activity, including the financial side. Makes no sense whatsoever for hibs to be openly telling the fans about this kind of thing.

[Caversham Green]

I dont ask my staff for money to help fund and run my business. The fans are the bloodline of the club, not Petrie, Farmer or Dempster. Without us fans the club dies. The club disclosed the facts that we had secured a six figure deal with the previous sponsorship. Why not disclose what digit figure we turned down.

Because it would serve no useful purpose.

[Tyler Durden]

Have to disagree on your second point. Hibs not being able to secure a main shirt sponsor, and the likely £200,000 or so that would likely have been invested into the club , is a fairly big deal.

That sort of money is a significant sum to a club like Hibs.

To put it in perspective, that would be about 2% of our turnover.

[DetroitHibs]

Because it would serve no useful purpose.

So previously it was stated and reported that the initial deal with Marathon Bet was “A significant six figure deal” You’ll find that if you bother to look. The club under LD was happy to disclose that at the time, can’t have it both ways.

[DetroitHibs]

To put it in perspective, that would be about 2% of our turnover.

Or twice as much as we paid for Flo.

[danhibees1875]

To put it in perspective, that would be about 2% of our turnover.

Or one measly Scott Allan. :dunno:

[Tyler Durden]

Or twice as much as we paid for Flo.

You’re the one moaning about Hibs never releasing transfer details, which by the way is completely normal. How do you know how much we paid for Flo?

[danhibees1875]

So previously it was stated and reported that the initial deal with Marathon Bet was “A significant six figure deal” You’ll find that if you bother to look. The club under LD was happy to disclose that at the time, can’t have it both ways.

I don't think the club should be disclosing every detail to the general public. They're a business that thrive on positivity and absolutely can have it both ways by being a little more open about the good things that happen and spinning the more negative stories into something nice. I don't see the problem with that.

I think it's a shame we've missed out on an opportunity to grow our commercial income streams, I'd be confident that is one of the clubs - off field - main objectives at the moment. But there can be a downside to sharing that news as matter of factly as you seem to want and it's not the way Hibs - or most other businesses would go about things.

Financially, it is what it is and needs to be accepted and learned from. The end result is fantastic exposure for a worthy cause and a cracking looking football top that can be had without any OTT corporate sponsor plastered across it.

[DetroitHibs]

You’re the one moaning about Hibs never releasing transfer details, which by the way is completely normal. How do you know how much we paid for Flo?

It was widely reported we had a £100,000 option to buy after his loan deal.

[matty_f]

It was widely reported we had a £100,000 option to buy after his loan deal.

Was it as widely reported as the club saying they wouldn't break the wage ceiling for one player?

Are there any quotes available for these points?

Edit: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/florian-kamberi-signs-hibs-three-12704688.amp

Daily Ranger story said we signed Flo for £100k. No quotes but would imagine they got that from someone at the club if they were happy to run with it.

[Caversham Green]

So previously it was stated and reported that the initial deal with Marathon Bet was “A significant six figure deal” You’ll find that if you bother to look. The club under LD was happy to disclose that at the time, can’t have it both ways.

That was good publicity for both the club and Marathon Bet i.e. it served a purpose. Talking about the amount we turned down isn't good publicity and would just make you angrier.

[DetroitHibs]

For me the club only tell us some of the financial deals when it suits them. Edinburgh Evening News revealed we sold Simon Murray for £150,000. Great piece of business IMO. I don’t see how they can tell us on one deal that they secured a significant six figure deal, yet not say for instance that we turned down a five figure deal that didn’t meet our expectations.

So now as fans we can only guess what was offered and how significant that could be going forward. I don’t think we are in a position to be turning down offers like that lightly.

[Lendo]

It is staggering just how many financial and commercial experts use Hibs.net.

[DetroitHibs]

We could debate and guess wether it’s a smart move from LD until we are blue in the face. Without the actual facts it’s pointless. I’m in the camp that it’s not a good move for the club. Everyone’s entitled to there opinions on the matter.

[B.H.F.C]

For me the club only tell us some of the financial deals when it suits them. Edinburgh Evening News revealed we sold Simon Murray for £150,000. Great piece of business IMO. I don’t see how they can tell us on one deal that they secured a significant six figure deal, yet not say for instance that we turned down a five figure deal that didn’t meet our expectations.

So now as fans we can only guess what was offered and how significant that could be going forward. I don’t think we are in a position to be turning down offers like that lightly.

I think you answered your own question in there. The EEN reported that, not the club.

[Ozyhibby]

The clubs commercial income has trailed Aberdeen’s and Hearts for years now and it looks like it’s getting worse rather than better. It’s the one area that has not improved at all under Dempster.


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[SMAXXA]

The clubs commercial income has trailed Aberdeen’s and Hearts for years now and it looks like it’s getting worse rather than better. It’s the one area that has not improved at all under Dempster.


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Genuine question how do you know this is it in the EoY financials or something?

[Vault Boy]

The clubs commercial income has trailed Aberdeen’s and Hearts for years now and it looks like it’s getting worse rather than better. It’s the one area that has not improved at all under Dempster.


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Pretty important to note that for Leeann's first 3 seasons we were a Scottish Championship side. That would significantly impact our commercial income potential.

Whether or not enough has been done during the last two years is up for debate.

[Greencore]

Genuine question how do you know this is it in the EoY financials or something?

Hearts have more money from foh and Aberdeen have a businessman based in the United States investing in them.

[ronaldo7]

We had, "two good offers on the table", according to Leeann, but decided not to go with the "good offers", and instead ask supporters to pay an extra £5, for the community Foundation logo. Lost opportunity here, where we could have taken one of the "good offers", and still asked supporters if they'd pay a couple of pounds for a smaller logo on the shorts.

[Golden Bear]

We had, "two good offers on the table", according to Leeann, but decided not to go with the "good offers", and instead ask supporters to pay an extra £5, for the community Foundation logo. Lost opportunity here, where we could have taken one of the "good offers", and still asked supporters if they'd pay a couple of pounds for a smaller logo on the shorts.



That's all very well but let's hope this decision doesn't prevent any potential future sponsors from coming forward.

[Peevemor]

The clubs commercial income has trailed Aberdeen’s and Hearts for years now and it looks like it’s getting worse rather than better. It’s the one area that has not improved at all under Dempster.


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Hearts commercial income may be higher than Hibs but their catering/hospitality is kept in-house whereas Hibs is outsourced. As a result Hearts have (30-40?) more employees than Hibs. The net results for the 2 clubs will be a lot closer than a quick glance at the end of years accounts might have you believe.

Aberdeen is a one team city therefore not a like-for-like comparison. They don't have Murrayfield to compete with either.

[Ozyhibby]

Hearts have more money from foh and Aberdeen have a businessman based in the United States investing in them.

Aberdeen’s investment from their American shareholder does not make up the difference between our income and theirs. Ours is about £10m pa and theirs is about £15m pa on smaller crowds. Our board need to look at why this is happening because that is a massive difference and it shows on the park.


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[The_Horde]

That's all very well but let's hope this decision doesn't prevent any potential future sponsors from coming forward.

I think it puts us in a better bargaining position. The other offers obviously were nowhere near what we wanted.

[Golden Bear]

I think it puts us in a better bargaining position. The other offers obviously were nowhere near what we wanted.

Yet Leanne is quoted as saying they were "good offers"

[The_Horde]

Yet Leanne is quoted as saying they were "good offers"

Aye. But if they were as good as Marathon bet, we'd not have a charity as a sponsor...

[SMAXXA]

Hearts have more money from foh and Aberdeen have a businessman based in the United States investing in them.

I was referring to commercial income?

[ronaldo7]

That's all very well but let's hope this decision doesn't prevent any potential future sponsors from coming forward.

My point is, if both offers were "good", as she said, why would we refuse them.

It just looks like we've put more pressure on fans having to dig deep, when that cash could have gone to HSL.

[Caversham Green]

Hearts commercial income may be higher than Hibs but their catering/hospitality is kept in-house whereas Hibs is outsourced. As a result Hearts have (30-40?) more employees than Hibs. The net results for the 2 clubs will be a lot closer than a quick glance at the end of years accounts might have you believe.

Aberdeen is a one team city therefore not a like-for-like comparison. They don't have Murrayfield to compete with either.

Try 175 more.

To be fair they specify that 109 of them are part time hospitality staff but they still have 50 commercial and administration staff to Hibs 35. Aberdeen have 49 (plus 11 maintenance staff which Hibs presumably include in commercial and admin).

[Peevemor]

My point is, if both offers were "good", as she said, why would we refuse them.

It just looks like we've put more pressure on fans having to dig deep, when that cash could have gone to HSL.

If a business has shown interest in putting money into Hibs, Leeann will not criticise them or any offer publicly. Even if an offer was well below what Hibs were looking for, she'll describe it as "good" out of respect and simple courtesy.

[Jones28]

We could debate and guess wether it’s a smart move from LD until we are blue in the face. Without the actual facts it’s pointless. I’m in the camp that it’s not a good move for the club. Everyone’s entitled to there opinions on the matter.

It is pointless, and it's also pointless of choosing to go down the route of not backing the decision from the club without all the facts instead of automatically going down criticism route. It can cut both ways.

[Peevemor]

It is pointless, and it's also pointless of choosing to go down the route of not backing the decision from the club without all the facts instead of automatically going down criticism route. It can cut both ways.

Exactly.

[ronaldo7]

If a business has shown interest in putting money into Hibs, Leeann will not criticise them or any offer publicly. Even if an offer was well below what Hibs were looking for, she'll describe it as "good" out of respect and simple courtesy.

Fair do's, just looking at her interview and taking her at her word, she may have worded it differently. No biggie, and as you say, she maybe wants to leave the door open for those businesses to interact with the club in other ways.

[ElginHibbie]

Could the situation not be the offers we had on table were say £100k per year and with Marathon Bet it had been closer to £200k as some have suggested.

Rather than be stuck in a contract with that lesser figure for 3 years, we are taking this year to try and make the club more appealing by doing more community stuff to counter some of the bad press we have had recently. This in turn would hopefully lead to offers next season in the higher range?

[worcesterhibby]

If a business has shown interest in putting money into Hibs, Leeann will not criticise them or any offer publicly. Even if an offer was well below what Hibs were looking for, she'll describe it as "good" out of respect and simple courtesy.

Agree, it may well be that they come on board with other sponsorship, so she is unlikely to be anything but positive about her comments. It is very much worth noting that it is very unlikely that Hibs will be down on revenue very much at all. The marathon Bet deal included large amounts of in stadium advertising and the rights to all in stadium betting. These can and may already have been sold separately to a number of companies, which may well end up as much as getting one major sponsor.

[Sioux]

Are there thousands of millionaires out there currently pumping money into football teams for no reason?

Doubt it.

Are there thousands of football teams sponsored by companies? Yes.

Your argument is just fundamentally horse ****.

And yours is just fundamentally horse ****.

[Ozyhibby]

It is pointless, and it's also pointless of choosing to go down the route of not backing the decision from the club without all the facts instead of automatically going down criticism route. It can cut both ways.

I agree that this decision on its own may have been a good one but I think it’s legitimate to question why the commercial department at Hibs if consistently underperforming its closest rivals.


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[Speedway]

IF the playing budget is not affected, as per LD's statement, the conclusions I draw are that:

1. Sponsorship money never went to playing budget in the first place.
2. Money lost from whatever budget it DID go to, has been underwritten privately
3. HSL is unaffected as a result as I don't believe for one second that those paying a £5 for the logo are now saying 'aww I had that fiver ring fenced for HSL'


LD is almost as commercially astute as Old Man Roderick, I don't believe that Hibs have lost out at all. Even if there has been an almighty cock-up in the commercial department, I bet RP and LD have rescued it via other sources, given that it's their job to do so.

Hibs have never been slow to use loss of income as an excuse for poor sporting performance. We haven't played that card which tells me we've sorted it another way.

[Peevemor]

I agree that this decision on its own may have been a good one but I think it’s legitimate to question why the commercial department at Hibs if consistently underperforming its closest rivals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But are they though? How do you know?

The bottom line is that without their mystery benefactors, Hearts have been running at a substantial loss.

[LeithMike]

To put it in perspective, that would be about 2% of our turnover.I would hate to see my contribution to the club through HSL stated as a % of turnover. Would make me think there is little point.

A few additional points:

1. I appreciate Hibs are a business and there is commercially sensitive information but it's ironic that this decision positions the club more towards a community based entity rather than commercial (which is good) but that should bring with it a greater accountability to that community.

2. If there is no information disseminated then the fans are entitled to speculate about possible reasons (provided it's not malicious and not stated as fact). The circumstances certainly point to something very last minute.

3. I note that Kieran Power posted something above to say this has not come about because Hibs have messed up. As someone a bit sceptical of the way the decision appears to have been made, I'm prepared to take Kieran's word on this and am very grateful to him for doing this.

4. I'd still like to hear HSL's view on this. If Hibs have sufficient funds that we can afford to go without a commercial sponsor and partner with a charity, am I not better giving money directly to a charity? I can then pick a charity more aligned with the causes I believe in and the donation can benefit from gift aid. I appreciate that HSL get shares in the club in return but all promotions lately appear to play down this aspect and focus on contribution to the playing budget. Again, making this point not as a criticism but to give those involved the chance to consider.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

Agree, it may well be that they come on board with other sponsorship, so she is unlikely to be anything but positive about her comments. It is very much worth noting that it is very unlikely that Hibs will be down on revenue very much at all. The marathon Bet deal included large amounts of in stadium advertising and the rights to all in stadium betting. These can and may already have been sold separately to a number of companies, which may well end up as much as getting one major sponsor.

'May' is, as they say, doing quite a lot of work here.

[Ozyhibby]

But are they though? How do you know?

The bottom line is that without their mystery benefactors, Hearts have been running at a substantial loss.

Just because they are running at a loss doesn’t mean they are not bringing in more money commercially. Lucky for us, Hearts waste a lot of money.
Aberdeen on the other hand are using the extra money they bring in to put a consistently better team out on the park than us.
We are entitled to ask why that is when they get lower crowds than us. We need to look at what they are doing and try to emulate it.


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[The 90+2]

The most ridiculous thing about this thread are the folk (who have never run a professional football club) suggesting that Leeann Dempster is incompetent.

I leave it there.

Folk said it about Petrie for years, it lead to half empty stadium and relegation.

[The 90+2]

But are they though? How do you know?

The bottom line is that without their mystery benefactors, Hearts have been running at a substantial loss.

While true, that money would be included in their yearly projections with transfer budget etc taken into consideration including benefactors money. It’s different from running at a loss and covering it with mystery money. How do they get pass ffp though I wonder?

[Ozyhibby]

While true, that money would be included in their yearly projections with transfer budget etc taken into consideration including benefactors money. It’s different from running at a loss and covering it with mystery money. How do they get pass ffp though I wonder?

There is no FFP in Scotland for them to pass.


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[worcesterhibby]

'May' is, as they say, doing quite a lot of work here.

Absolutely, but I think it's worth pointing out that you can fail to announce a shirt sponsor and still not be down financially.

[The 90+2]

There is no FFP in Scotland for them to pass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There should be after all the clubs going into admin/dying but that makes more sense that they get away with it.

[Peevemor]

Just because they are running at a loss doesn’t mean they are not bringing in more money commercially. Lucky for us, Hearts waste a lot of money.

Exactly. They run at a loss therefore I find it ridiculous to use them as an example for how to do things, especially in terms of commercial revenue where, as explained before, they have a higher turnover but also dozens of extra staff to pay. They could even be running at a loss in this respect for all we know.


Aberdeen on the other hand are using the extra money they bring in to put a consistently better team out on the park than us.
We are entitled to ask why that is when they get lower crowds than us. We need to look at what they are doing and try to emulate it.

As posted before being a one team city changes everything. A better comparison would be the Dundee teams.

[Peevemor]

Folk said it about Petrie for years, it lead to half empty stadium and relegation.

Did they? I can't remember RP being described as competent.

[Siralbertkidd]

Hearing a few people on here with the right questions and some good responses.

Leeann has rightly said:
“With respect to the football budget, it is never going to be impacted by these decisions. Paul and his team will continue to get very strong support from the club, as they always do.

“Not one penny will be lost to him from this decision.

“I actually think it will encourage everyone to look forward to buying the strip, wearing it and supporting the Foundation throughout their different campaigns.”

The Hibernian Community Foundation Will now have more exposure and financial backing which is fantastic.

The club will now re-align Finances in other areas to account for no commercial sponsor on the front of shirt. I can’t go into that for commercial sensitivity as pointed out - there is no concern here. It’s looking at all the options and deciding what gives us more value.

I'm afraid I see a bit of a conflict of interest as LD is a Director of the Foundation, who are the main benificiaries. I am sure she would declare this at the time, but I would like to have it confirmed by you as a Board Member. We are definately going to have to cut costs to cover the shortfall, so I suspect no tannoy improvements, no hot water in the East toilets, etc, etc, and I am keen to know as much as possible without breaching commercial sensitivity of those we turned down in favour of the Foundation?

[Peevemor]

'May' is, as they say, doing quite a lot of work here.

Because there are numerous reasons which could explain why Hibs have ended up with HCF on their shirts.

[The 90+2]

Did they? I can't remember RP being described as competent.

I heard him being called a lot worse in the East.

[MyJo]

The club haven't failed to attract a sponsor, it's been confirmed that there were a couple of offers available to us that have been turned down in favour of the Community Foundation option.

Yes this is all being dressed up as us making an ethical choice, that's just marketing, but I don't believe that Dempster is a liar. If there was no offers on the table I would expect zero comment on this or her words to be selected more carefully to avoid reference to other offers rather than to openly admit there was two other companies we could have chosen.

The people in charge of running our club (and who have done a bloody good job of it over the last 5 years IMO) have been comfortable in not accepting what they consider to be an unsuitable offer from a sponsor purely to pull in money, no matter the cost, or to save face with "fans" who are seeing this as some sort of world-ending catastrophe.

It's clear the club now have criteria that we look for in our commercial partners that fits in with the ethos of the club along with the value of these types of partnerships moving forward. If that means we spend a season with a charity on the front of the kit so we can take the time needed to find the right partner for us the following 3-5 years then so be it.

I personally don't have an issue with gambling companies as sponsors but its clear a sizeable portion of the Hibs support and population in general do.It looks like the club have paid attention to that feedback and want to take a stand on this front. I would much rather support a club willing to stick by its principles and do what it considers the right thing than a club willing to do anything for more money.

As for the club refusing to accept alcohol sponsorship, we continue to have Eden Mill as a prominent partner on the kit and in the stadium while there is also a supplier partnership with Carling so I'm not sure why people think this is the case. Either way only time will tell and we will find that out when the deal with Eden Mill comes to an end.

I don't have the inclination to dig into it but I would assume that those who are criticising the club for not accepting whatever sponsor was available had nothing to say about us partnering with marathonbet or the various alcohol companies we've had over the years, or McEwan Fraser and their quick-sale property business or our recent vaping partner? I guess that they were also unconcerned by Hearts being sponsored by Wonga or a dodgy, money laundering, Lithuanian Bank that didn't even operate in the UK? Just so long as they were getting money for it, right?

[My_Wife_Camille]

It is staggering just how many financial and commercial experts use Hibs.net.
You don’t need to be a financial expert to know that less money is worse than more money ffs 😂

[we are hibs]

its staggering the amount of people on here who think you need to be an expert in something to have an opinion about it.

[One Day Soon]

IF the playing budget is not affected, as per LD's statement, the conclusions I draw are that:

1. Sponsorship money never went to playing budget in the first place.
2. Money lost from whatever budget it DID go to, has been underwritten privately
3. HSL is unaffected as a result as I don't believe for one second that those paying a £5 for the logo are now saying 'aww I had that fiver ring fenced for HSL'


LD is almost as commercially astute as Old Man Roderick, I don't believe that Hibs have lost out at all. Even if there has been an almighty cock-up in the commercial department, I bet RP and LD have rescued it via other sources, given that it's their job to do so.

Hibs have never been slow to use loss of income as an excuse for poor sporting performance. We haven't played that card which tells me we've sorted it another way.


Devil's Advocate:

1. Player budget would be composed of a number of revenue sources, predominantly the more stable ones since there is a requirement to both pay up front any fees needed to bring players in but also - and far more importantly - be able to pay their salaries across the period of a season at a minimum but also to do so across the period of their contracts. A three year deal with Marathon Bet must have been one of the most predicable annual sources of income there was so it seems likely that it would have contributed to player budget.

2. Money lost from either whatever other budget the Marathon money was spent on or from whatever other budget was raided to replace the Marathon money in the player budget can only have been dealt with in one of four ways and I would suggest privately underwritten is the least likely. They are: We increased our income all round to an extent that the loss is being absorbed, we have decided to stop doing something that we were previously doing, we have delayed doing something that we otherwise planned to do, a private benefactor has underwritten the sponsorship loss.

If a private benefactor is underwriting the loss that is effectively the same thing as saying that a private benefactor is paying for the Foundation logos to be available on all strips. The club are not stating that a benefactor is paying for the Foundation opportunity so we either have a spectacular PR screw up or there is no benefactor/underwriter.

3. HSL is not unaffected because a big part of its pitch is that every penny donated goes to the playing squad. Harder to make that pitch convincing when the club appears to be stating that it is in a position that it can shed a significant six figure sum in sponsorship and still protect the playing budget. If that is the case how much more could have been added to our competitiveness on the park with a decent sponsor income?

If we take the lower end of sponsor figures suggested - £100,000 annually - that is equivalent to 277 HSL donors (just over 2% of the 12,000 season tickets we hope to sell this year) at the HSL top suggested donor rate of £30 per month. Or 833 HSL donors (almost 7% of the 12,000 season tickets we hope to sell this year) at the HSL donor rate of £10 per month.

4. If there has been a commercial cock-up there's no doubt that Rod and Leeann will have acted fast to contain the commercial and football consequences. However dressing it up with the Foundation outcome looks quite a lot like what it seems to be - a sticking plaster to mask the failure to land a sponsor.

5. We haven't used the loss of income/poor sporting performance card because we can't. This isn't a season tickets are down/football generally is struggling/we need to do infrastructure first scenario. It's a 'we had a sponsor and we've failed to replace them' scenario which doesn't look too good.

I am generally the happiest of clappers but even I can see there are legitimate questions in this. To be fair, I can also see that they are not easy to answer in public for commercial and other reasons. It does seem odd however to be the only club in the SPFL to have failed to attract a shirt sponsor commensurate with the status of the club.

Meanwhile back at the shirts themselves the green one is slowly growing on me but the purple one gets worse every time I look at it.

[One Day Soon]

Absolutely, but I think it's worth pointing out that you can fail to announce a shirt sponsor and still not be down financially.

Agreed. It is possible to be in both an improved financial position and simultaneously in not as good a financial position as you could have been.

[My_Wife_Camille]

its staggering the amount of people on here who think you need to be an expert in something to have an opinion about it.
They only think that if it’s a so called ‘negative’ opinion though, which makes it even funnier.

[One Day Soon]

Because there are numerous reasons which could explain why Hibs have ended up with HCF on their shirts.


There are - but I would suggest that 'failing to secure a sponsor' is holding the weapon, has left its fingerprints all over the place and has been apprehended trying to flee the scene of the crime...

[CockneyRebel]

The club haven't failed to attract a sponsor, it's been confirmed that there were a couple of offers available to us that have been turned down in favour of the Community Foundation option.

Yes this is all being dressed up as us making an ethical choice, that's just marketing, but I don't believe that Dempster is a liar. If there was no offers on the table I would expect zero comment on this or her words to be selected more carefully to avoid reference to other offers rather than to openly admit there was two other companies we could have chosen.

The people in charge of running our club (and who have done a bloody good job of it over the last 5 years IMO) have been comfortable in not accepting what they consider to be an unsuitable offer from a sponsor purely to pull in money, no matter the cost, or to save face with "fans" who are seeing this as some sort of world-ending catastrophe.

It's clear the club now have criteria that we look for in our commercial partners that fits in with the ethos of the club along with the value of these types of partnerships moving forward. If that means we spend a season with a charity on the front of the kit so we can take the time needed to find the right partner for us the following 3-5 years then so be it.

I personally don't have an issue with gambling companies as sponsors but its clear a sizeable portion of the Hibs support and population in general do.It looks like the club have paid attention to that feedback and want to take a stand on this front. I would much rather support a club willing to stick by its principles and do what it considers the right thing than a club willing to do anything for more money.

As for the club refusing to accept alcohol sponsorship, we continue to have Eden Mill as a prominent partner on the kit and in the stadium while there is also a supplier partnership with Carling so I'm not sure why people think this is the case. Either way only time will tell and we will find that out when the deal with Eden Mill comes to an end.

I don't have the inclination to dig into it but I would assume that those who are criticising the club for not accepting whatever sponsor was available had nothing to say about us partnering with marathonbet or the various alcohol companies we've had over the years, or McEwan Fraser and their quick-sale property business or our recent vaping partner? I guess that they were also unconcerned by Hearts being sponsored by Wonga or a dodgy, money laundering, Lithuanian Bank that didn't even operate in the UK? Just so long as they were getting money for it, right?


I have criticised the board in the past and will probably do so in the future. I don't bury my head in the sand and I have a moan on here when I think it justified but I have enough confidence in the present board/management set up to do a good job for this club. These people see more of the "bigger picture" than most outsiders and I am happy to leave them to it to do what they feel is best.

[The_Horde]

You don’t need to be a financial expert to know that less money is worse than more money ffs 😂

If the reported 250k loss of marathonbet is correct then I'm assuming people won't be bothered if we sign Doidge for the same amount of money and there won't any more pressure on him hitting the ground running than one of our free agents?

[MrRobot]

Yet Leanne is quoted as saying they were "good offers"

What if the 2 good offers were from companies that Hibs don’t want to be associate with? Gambling, payday loans and even alcohol should be avoided IMO.

[Golden Bear]

What if the 2 good offers were from companies that Hibs don’t want to be associate with? Gambling, payday loans and even alcohol should be avoided IMO.

That policy is fine if it is followed by all Clubs. However I don't want my Club to fall further behind our rivals at the expense of being ethically or whatever correct.

[WhileTheChief..]

This is the crux of it for me.

Did the club turn down any offers cause they weren’t worth what we were looking for?

Or did we turn down the offers due to the nature of the businesses involved?

Both are problems but the latter is of our own making.

[Since452]

This is the crux of it for me.

Did the club turn down any offers cause they weren’t worth what we were looking for?

Or did we turn down the offers due to the nature of the businesses involved?

Both are problems but the latter is of our own making.

100% agree. If we're turning down good deals because we're taking the moral high ground while our rivals surge ahead then I'd be disappointed. I doubt it's the latter though as we're still carrying Eden Mill on our strips.

[SMAXXA]

100% agree. If we're turning down good deals because we're taking the moral high ground while our rivals surge ahead then I'd be disappointed.

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

[MWHIBBIES]

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

Indeed. Kilmarnock finished above us with a smaller budget. Much more important things going to decide where we finish than a daft shirt sponsor.

[marinello59]

100% agree. If we're turning down good deals because we're taking the moral high ground while our rivals surge ahead then I'd be disappointed.

So nothing is off limits as long as we get money in to the club? I’ll assume you didn’t criticise the Romanaov era at Tynecastle or the Sevco tax dodging scheme.
How about having a tobacco company sponsor our shirts? The Sun newspaper? There is a line to be drawn and depending on the business I’d be happy to see our club draw it.

[Since452]

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially. Might not want to believe it but it's true.

[marinello59]

Lol who’s going to honestly ‘surge’ ahead it’s not going to make or break our season let’s be realistic here.

Exactly.

[marinello59]

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially.

They are hardly surging ahead. We finished ahead of Hearts the last two seasons.

[Bostonhibby]

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially. Might not want to believe it but it's true.in terms of what they actually do with their money Hearts are surging behind, like the previous season.

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[Peevemor]

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially. Might not want to believe it but it's true.

Hearts are being baled out by mystery benefactots, otherwise they're losing £2m+ per year.

What happens when that dries up?

[The 90+2]

Hearts are being baled out by mystery benefactots, otherwise they're losing £2m+ per year.

What happens when that dries up?

They budget not to spend £2m more on a stand or have topped up by their HSL who will have bought the club by then?

[SMAXXA]

Hearts and Aberdeen are both surging ahead financially. Might not want to believe it but it's true.

I would believe it if I thought it were true but I don’t, unless you have a deep insight into the 3 clubs finances I don’t know how you can make such a claim.

[matty_f]

So nothing is off limits as long as we get money in to the club? I’ll assume you didn’t criticise the Romanaov era at Tynecastle or the Sevco tax dodging scheme.
How about having a tobacco company sponsor our shirts? The Sun newspaper? There is a line to be drawn and depending on the business I’d be happy to see our club draw it.

:agree: I'm amazed that's even being debated, in all honesty.

I would 100% rather Hibs found income from other sources if it meant we were holding up some ethical standards.

I get the point being raised about Eden Mills, but not a soul has confirmed that it was alcohol companies who had made offers.

It's also wrong (IMHO) to bring HSL into the debate. HSL exists to fund the purchase of the club and in doing so give additional money to the club towards the transfer budget.

They don't collect money for charitable purposes and they aren't begging for money - there's a transaction where you get something for the money you put in.

I think it's wrong to say Hibs shouldn't turn down sponsorship while HSL are asking for contributions, rather it's a good thing that HSL contributions allows Hibs to 'do the right thing' with sponsorship, but regardless of whether or not Hibs got sponsorship income, HSL needs the contributions to continue to buy shares to safeguard the club.

[Mikey]

The club haven't failed to attract a sponsor, it's been confirmed that there were a couple of offers available to us that have been turned down in favour of the Community Foundation option.



I honestly thought that Kieran's post would have pretty much brought this thread to an end, but it seems not!

[blackpoolhibs]

Our income will go up and down every year through all different circumstances, dont know why some are getting their knickers in a twist?

[SquashedFrogg]

Our income will go up and down every year through all different circumstances, dont know why some are getting their knickers in a twist?

Knicker twisting is cyclical. Last occurrence was when Lennon left.

[Jack]

I was to!d in the pub one of the companies we turned down was Trotters International Traders.

Humph! We could have all been millionaires!!

[DetroitHibs]

Leeann Dempster, you 24 karat gold plonker!

[HibbyAndy]

I was to!d in the pub one of the companies we turned down was Trotters International Traders.

Humph! We could have all been millionaires!!

It was Trotters independent traders to be pedantic ;-)

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

its staggering the amount of people on here who think you need to be an expert in something to have an opinion about it.

Indeed, you'd think it was a fans forum or something! ☺

[green day]

Fans rep KP gave a response the other day -


Hearing a few people on here with the right questions and some good responses.

Leeann has rightly said:
“With respect to the football budget, it is never going to be impacted by these decisions. Paul and his team will continue to get very strong support from the club, as they always do.

“Not one penny will be lost to him from this decision.

“I actually think it will encourage everyone to look forward to buying the strip, wearing it and supporting the Foundation throughout their different campaigns.”

The Hibernian Community Foundation Will now have more exposure and financial backing which is fantastic.

The club will now re-align Finances in other areas to account for no commercial sponsor on the front of shirt. I can’t go into that for commercial sensitivity as pointed out - there is no concern here. It’s looking at all the options and deciding what gives us more value.

Some then questioned if the last para meant we had made a balls up.......


Ideally we would have a local commercial sponsor that buys into the ethos and everything Hibs, matching the value of such sponsorship - my opinion, not the fans or the clubs.

Definitely not a cock-up. A decision based on what was on the table.

I understand the position of taking the best sponsorship offer regardless.

I also take on the position of not taking a commercial sponsorship and boosting our Foundation whilst exploring other opportunities.

Opinions will differ.

As always if there is any concerns I’m happy to pass them on.

Thought it worth reposting, just in case anyone missed these while frothing at the mouth:greengrin

[SMAXXA]

Indeed, you'd think it was a fans forum or something! ☺

There’s having an opinion and claiming to know things are 2 different things

[Bob Box Fish]

Tam Mcmanus putting a cryptic tweet up about money potentially coming in ....

[Centre Hawf]

Tam Mcmanus putting a cryptic tweet up about money potentially coming in ....

Claims it's not to do with John McGinn's potential transfer as well.

[04Sauzee]

Tam Mcmanus putting a cryptic tweet up about money potentially coming in ....

Another of Tams cryptics

[we are hibs]

We will probably be going into admin now