Scotland's Missing Pieces

[Sylar]

I didn't want this to add into the match thread, as it's a more speculative post. It's also with the recognition that Belgium are a marvellous footballing team, and so this isn't meant to be overly critical for this evening!

I think Clarke is a good appointment - he has the capability to get a squad of players working well together, and doesn't take any ****.

My concern, looking at the first squad he's pieced together for the Cyprus and Belgium games, is where are the improvements. Identifying the weak links and vulnerabilities are easy - our defense is weaker than I can ever remember, we don't have much creativity from the flanks (apart from Robertson), and we're lacking someone that can control the game in the midfield. We're quite scant up front too.

What worries me, is that I don't look at any of these positions and think "so and so is missing", or "x would make a difference in here" (apart from maybe an on form and healthy Leigh Griffiths, but even then).

Are we genuinely just in a generational slump, or am I missing the 5 or 6 Scottish players that could really kick us on?

[HoboHarry]

I didn't want this to add into the match thread, as it's a more speculative post. It's also with the recognition that Belgium are a marvellous footballing team, and so this isn't meant to be overly critical for this evening!

I think Clarke is a good appointment - he has the capability to get a squad of players working well together, and doesn't take any ****.

My concern, looking at the first squad he's pieced together for the Cyprus and Belgium games, is where are the improvements. Identifying the weak links and vulnerabilities are easy - our defense is weaker than I can ever remember, we don't have much creativity from the flanks (apart from Robertson), and we're lacking someone that can control the game in the midfield. We're quite scant up front too.

What worries me, is that I don't look at any of these positions and think "so and so is missing", or "x would make a difference in here" (apart from maybe an on form and healthy Leigh Griffiths, but even then).

Are we genuinely just in a generational slump, or am I missing the 5 or 6 Scottish players that could really kick us on?
Generational slump?? Its been a lot longer than that.....

[Smartie]

I didn't want this to add into the match thread, as it's a more speculative post. It's also with the recognition that Belgium are a marvellous footballing team, and so this isn't meant to be overly critical for this evening!

I think Clarke is a good appointment - he has the capability to get a squad of players working well together, and doesn't take any ****.

My concern, looking at the first squad he's pieced together for the Cyprus and Belgium games, is where are the improvements. Identifying the weak links and vulnerabilities are easy - our defense is weaker than I can ever remember, we don't have much creativity from the flanks (apart from Robertson), and we're lacking someone that can control the game in the midfield. We're quite scant up front too.

What worries me, is that I don't look at any of these positions and think "so and so is missing", or "x would make a difference in here" (apart from maybe an on form and healthy Leigh Griffiths, but even then).

Are we genuinely just in a generational slump, or am I missing the 5 or 6 Scottish players that could really kick us on?

A fit Robertson makes a difference.

Porteous to get fit and have a solid year under his belt. We need a right sided CH.

Find a right-back.

Get Griffiths back fit.

Go with McGinn, McTominay and AN other in a middle 3.


That will get a first 11 that should stand up to most teams.

[we are hibs]

We are missing competent people to run Scottish football. We currently have some of the most inept, arrogant clowns running our game and until that changes then Scottish football will remain in this slumber of *****.

[Leitherhibs]

A fit Robertson makes a difference.

Porteous to get fit and have a solid year under his belt. We need a right sided CH.

Find a right-back.

Get Griffiths back fit.

Go with McGinn, McTominay and AN other in a middle 3.


That will get a first 11 that should stand up to most teams.

McGregor and Mclean both good options, no shortage of CM’s.

[Pretty Boy]

Kenny McLean has played well tonight. He's been the pick of the Scotland team by a fair bit.

On paper we have half decent options in certain areas. If we can find a way to use Robertson and Fraser effectively, get a balance featuring McGinn, McTominay, Armstrong, McLean and McGreggor in the middle of the park then we have a decent core.

The glaring issues are RB, CB and up top. We lack any real class there and looking at the last 2 games Brophy, McKenna and O'Donnell aren't the answer. I wonder if trying Tierney again at RB is a short term solution for now.

[Joe6-2]

We are missing competent people to run Scottish football. We currently have some of the most inept, arrogant clowns running our game and until that changes then Scottish football will remain in this slumber of *****.

They certainly don’t help!

[Smartie]

McGregor and Mclean both good options, no shortage of CM’s.

I like McGregor but I prefer him further forward, getting shots away and picking wee passes.

McLean also is a good player.

McGinn and McTominay are the first picks for me there though.

[brianmc]

We are missing competent people to run Scottish football. We currently have some of the most inept, arrogant clowns running our game and until that changes then Scottish football will remain in this slumber of *****.

Hard to argue with this. Belgium aren't exactly one of the world's massively populated countries-they're a wee country like us FFS. They must be doing something/many things right that we're doing wrong to become the number 1 ranked team in the world.

[HoboHarry]

Hard to argue with this. Belgium aren't exactly one of the world's massively populated countries-they're a wee country like us FFS. They must be doing something/many things right that we're doing wrong to become the number 1 ranked team in the world.
Not to mention Iceland and Croatia.....

[hibbytam]

I didn't want this to add into the match thread, as it's a more speculative post. It's also with the recognition that Belgium are a marvellous footballing team, and so this isn't meant to be overly critical for this evening!

I think Clarke is a good appointment - he has the capability to get a squad of players working well together, and doesn't take any ****.

My concern, looking at the first squad he's pieced together for the Cyprus and Belgium games, is where are the improvements. Identifying the weak links and vulnerabilities are easy - our defense is weaker than I can ever remember, we don't have much creativity from the flanks (apart from Robertson), and we're lacking someone that can control the game in the midfield. We're quite scant up front too.

What worries me, is that I don't look at any of these positions and think "so and so is missing", or "x would make a difference in here" (apart from maybe an on form and healthy Leigh Griffiths, but even then).

Are we genuinely just in a generational slump, or am I missing the 5 or 6 Scottish players that could really kick us on?

I'd say what I'm hoping for is that Clarke helps us be stronger than the sum of our parts, getting a proper team dynamic going.

In the longer term, the solution to the problem you highlight seems simple. Things like improving access to facilities for kids, and improving the skills of those coaching the kids (Not a knock at anyone who coaches, more that those that do should have an easily affordable route to higher coaching qualifications). And as a nation moving away from the 'playing the tall lad' mentality, where you have players like Andy Robertson released from Celtic for being too wee.
It would take time & money though, and i'm not sure there's anyone with the foresight to plan and finance so far ahead.

[CMurdoch]

Not to mention Iceland and Croatia.....

An ageing Iceland team are falling back towards their natural position and will soon be below us in the rankings.
Croatia on the other hand are amazing given their population is similar to ours. Modric will be 34 in September but all their other players are good to go for some time.
We desperately need to find quality, fit and professional strikers.

[HoboHarry]

An ageing Iceland team are falling back towards their natural position and will soon be below us in the rankings.
The coaching system is in place and will remain so. They may suffer from losing individual players but they will continue to exceed expectations for the foreseeable future which is something we haven't done for a very long time....

[PH91]

Kenny McLean has played well tonight. He's been the pick of the Scotland team by a fair bit.

On paper we have half decent options in certain areas. If we can find a way to use Robertson and Fraser effectively, get a balance featuring McGinn, McTominay, Armstrong, McLean and McGreggor in the middle of the park then we have a decent core.

The glaring issues are RB, CB and up top. We lack any real class there and looking at the last 2 games Brophy, McKenna and O'Donnell aren't the answer. I wonder if trying Tierney again at RB is a short term solution for now.

Agree with this.

Tierney never looked comfortable playing rb imo and so i would stick it out with o'donnell for now, at least clarke knows him well and what system best suits him.

Centre half is a big issue. It is really frustrating that porteous got injured when he did last year because if he had kept himself fit he may have been starting to get a look in now. I think if him and souttar can keep progressing there is the makings of a good partnership, although that isnt a short term solution.

Up front is a nightmare, i cant see any solution just now. I am struggling to see why fletcher isnt getting picked, maybe i have missed something. Not the most prolific striker but better than brophy and burke imo, decent in the air and has good experience. Are there even any strikers at u21 level that are breaking through into first team football at the moment?

[The 90+2]

We have fantastic youngsters coming through.

Clarke is a fantastic coach, now tactician .

Russia beat Cyprus 1-0.

[GreenCastle]

We are missing competent people to run Scottish football. We currently have some of the most inept, arrogant clowns running our game and until that changes then Scottish football will remain in this slumber of *****.

Yup - said it for a while you could put Pep in charge of Scotland it wouldn’t matter.

SFA - need disbanded - no one trusts them.
Old Firm bias / sectarian element
TV money
League Structure
Awful refs / compliance

Sort these and the jobs for the boys coaching set up and you might make a small improvement.

[CMurdoch]

Agree with this.

Tierney never looked comfortable playing rb imo and so i would stick it out with o'donnell for now, at least clarke knows him well and what system best suits him.

Centre half is a big issue. It is really frustrating that porteous got injured when he did last year because if he had kept himself fit he may have been starting to get a look in now. I think if him and souttar can keep progressing there is the makings of a good partnership, although that isnt a short term solution.

Up front is a nightmare, i cant see any solution just now. I am struggling to see why fletcher isnt getting picked, maybe i have missed something. Not the most prolific striker but better than brophy and burke imo, decent in the air and has good experience. Are there even any strikers at u21 level that are breaking through into first team football at the moment?

I believe Fletcher is trying to keep his club career going for another few years and hasn't been that interested in playing for a struggling Scotland team.
He might change his mind now that Clarke is in charge. Time will tell.

[The Modfather]

As others have said the real problem is the SFA, do we really have any confidence anything will be any different under Petrie’s stewardship. Should have a root and branch clear out and get John Collins involved in a shaping a new set up.

On the park, I think we need to look at what England are doing and copy that. Have a clear pathway from the u21s to the senior team and remain loyal to the age groups coming through that are successful. Even if they aren’t playing regularly for their clubs, try and build the core of a team that progressed through the youth teams together.

We’ve seen limited teams like Ireland Wales & N Ireland have recent success through either being extremely well organised or having one world class player, or both. With Clarke in charge I think we can do that with Robertson as our talisman that drags us up a level.

[CMurdoch]

Ryan Fredericks of West Ham could help with the problem at right back.
He is 26 and rapid. Played over 100 games for Fulham before transferring to West Ham at the end of the 2017/18 season.
Played 18 games for West Ham last season.
Clarke has spoken to him and he is keen.

[Steve-O]

An ageing Iceland team are falling back towards their natural position and will soon be below us in the rankings.
Croatia on the other hand are amazing given their population is similar to ours. Modric will be 34 in September but all their other players are good to go for some time.
We desperately need to find quality, fit and professional strikers.

Ageing Iceland just beat Turkey who are fresh off beating the World Champions...

[MWHIBBIES]

An ageing Iceland team are falling back towards their natural position and will soon be below us in the rankings.
Croatia on the other hand are amazing given their population is similar to ours. Modric will be 34 in September but all their other players are good to go for some time.
We desperately need to find quality, fit and professional strikers.
Iceland have 3 wins from 4 and have Moldova x2 and Andorra still to play, they've a much better chance of being at the Euros that Scotland.

[CMurdoch]

Ageing Iceland just beat Turkey who are fresh off beating the World Champions...

Before the match Turkey were ranked 39 in the FIFA rankings just ahead of Iceland in 40th (Scotland 44th)
Their win tonight is still a great result and gives them a small chance of 2nd place in their group but i expect they will finish 3rd.
They will also lose their golden generation and will then slide back down the rankings.
Tonight's starting players for Iceland were aged 36, 35, 34, 32x2, 31, 30, 29, 28, 27 & 24.
They as home team had as much possession of the ball as Scotland had in their match tonight and their centre half scored both goals.
Suggests they are well organised to soak up the pressure and look to hit the opposition on the break or at set pieces.
Nothing wrong with that, it's what Scotland tried to do tonight and failed at but i still think that father time is about to call time on their recent run of success.

[CMurdoch]

Iceland have 3 wins from 4 and have Moldova x2 and Andorra still to play, they've a much better chance of being at the Euros that Scotland.


They also need to play in Turkey & Albania and against France at home. I confidently predict they will lose to both Turkey and France with a close tough match in Albania.
IMO they will finish 3rd in their group and we will finish 3rd in ours.

[seanshow]

We can always look forward to the tache propose sweeping changes to Scottish football ::tumble:

[Swedish hibee]

You need a decent striker. As do Hibs. And Sweden need another Zlatan. Sigh.

[Colr]

I didn't want this to add into the match thread, as it's a more speculative post. It's also with the recognition that Belgium are a marvellous footballing team, and so this isn't meant to be overly critical for this evening!

I think Clarke is a good appointment - he has the capability to get a squad of players working well together, and doesn't take any ****.

My concern, looking at the first squad he's pieced together for the Cyprus and Belgium games, is where are the improvements. Identifying the weak links and vulnerabilities are easy - our defense is weaker than I can ever remember, we don't have much creativity from the flanks (apart from Robertson), and we're lacking someone that can control the game in the midfield. We're quite scant up front too.

What worries me, is that I don't look at any of these positions and think "so and so is missing", or "x would make a difference in here" (apart from maybe an on form and healthy Leigh Griffiths, but even then).

Are we genuinely just in a generational slump, or am I missing the 5 or 6 Scottish players that could really kick us on?

So apart from defence, midfield and attack, we’re in good shape!

[DetroitHibs]

Unless Steven Fletcher has retired, he’d be in my starting 11 right now.

[Colr]

We are missing competent people to run Scottish football. We currently have some of the most inept, arrogant clowns running our game and until that changes then Scottish football will remain in this slumber of *****.

Keep looking at what Iceland achieved by rolling out comprehensive network of trained coaches working at EVERY level of the game from primary school upwards. Takes time, though.

[Heisenberg]

Fraser and Forrest out wide makes a difference. Robertson and hopefully Fredericks at West Ham (if he finds that he’s got Scottish grandparents) come in at full back.

The centre of our defence is weak and we don’t have any really stand out options for those positions.

I think our central midfield is also quite decent, we just need the right balance and I’m sure Clarke will find it. McGinn, McTominay, McLean, McGregor, Christie and Armstrong are all good players.

Up front we are also lacking a bit when Griffiths isn’t available. Burke is brilliant for running in behind but has no end product. Fletcher can still do a job but he’s getting on a bit.

[BILLYHIBS]

Aberdeen must be wishing they had taken the 5m they got offered for McKenna by Stoke City :confused:

[Keith_M]

"Scotland's missing pieces"

Decent players?

[MWHIBBIES]

They also need to play in Turkey & Albania and against France at home. I confidently predict they will lose to both Turkey and France with a close tough match in Albania.
IMO they will finish 3rd in their group and we will finish 3rd in ours.

If they beat Albania they could be on 21 points which could well be enough for 2nd. Scotland will struggle for 15 points

[Just Jimmy]

that team had 7 goals for Scotland in it last night. we never look like scoring goals - even if games we should be winning.

we can't keep the ball.

we punt it forward under pressure and it comes right back because we can't hold it up.

we can't defend.

our football intelligence is non existent. see goal 1 where they all just stopped.

the standard of football is dire.

in short - we have a few decent players and one very good player
but it's miles from being serviceable. changing the manager won't help. strachan had the dressing room but was chased out in belief we should be getting more from what we have which is flawed. were just not good enough.

the issue as is well versed here and with the average fan, is that the game here is broken and will take generations to fix properly. even if we started now and we haven't really started. we just pay lip service with crap plans and tin pot marketing campaigns.



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[Steve-O]

Before the match Turkey were ranked 39 in the FIFA rankings just ahead of Iceland in 40th (Scotland 44th)
Their win tonight is still a great result and gives them a small chance of 2nd place in their group but i expect they will finish 3rd.
They will also lose their golden generation and will then slide back down the rankings.
Tonight's starting players for Iceland were aged 36, 35, 34, 32x2, 31, 30, 29, 28, 27 & 24.
They as home team had as much possession of the ball as Scotland had in their match tonight and their centre half scored both goals.
Suggests they are well organised to soak up the pressure and look to hit the opposition on the break or at set pieces.
Nothing wrong with that, it's what Scotland tried to do tonight and failed at but i still think that father time is about to call time on their recent run of success.

I wish we had a recent run of success that father time was about to call time on!

[Iain G]

Fraser and Forrest out wide makes a difference. Robertson and hopefully Fredericks at West Ham (if he finds that he’s got Scottish grandparents) come in at full back.

The centre of our defence is weak and we don’t have any really stand out options for those positions.

I think our central midfield is also quite decent, we just need the right balance and I’m sure Clarke will find it. McGinn, McTominay, McLean, McGregor, Christie and Armstrong are all good players.

Up front we are also lacking a bit when Griffiths isn’t available. Burke is brilliant for running in behind but has no end product. Fletcher can still do a job but he’s getting on a bit.

I think the lack of two good centre backs is a huge problem for us, we don't have that foundation to build on. Right back also a problem, does Patterson drop back into that role?

The central midfield has good options and we looked good down the left flank with Robertson and Fraser linking up well.

Up front we need Griffith's back and Fletch can lead a line still, Burke hasn't grown into the player his potential has suggested, maybe some bad move choices for him?

[CorrieHibs]

Unless Steven Fletcher has retired, he’d be in my starting 11 right now.

Fletch doesn’t want picked. This is the second time he has done this. So, ****** him. Good player, but you cannae pick and chose when you play.

Clarke is only 2 mins in the door. He picked a similar squad to McLeish to assess them all. I’m sure we’ll see some dropped and some new faces in September’s squad.

Centre back positions is something we need to look at. Mckenna is useless. He picked Mulgrew for his experience, which is fair enough. Liam Lindsay has potential, so we should be looking at him.

The 2 matches we just played, we expected 3 points and got them. Cyprus are tougher than folk think. It’s not easy to break teams down, especially with a 4th/5th choice striker making their debut. Cypriot teams do well in the Europa league, so they are no mugs. Russia only beat them 1-0. Belgium totally domainted us and that’s why they are number 1 in the world! We switched off for a second and they punished us. KDB was offside for their second.

We looked far more organised than we had under McLeish. People forget we are in the play offs. If we need that route then that’s fine. Clarke has 9 months to prepare for it.

More positives than negatives.

[MinceAndTatties]

I don't know why Liam Cooper of Leeds United has not been given a chance.
He has had a good season and made the PFA Championship Team of the Season.
He has been capped at under 19 level.