Morrissey

[G B Young]

Perhaps one for those who recall The Smiths providing a musical backdrop to their youth...

I know Morrissey has often been linked with the right wing down the years, but the way he's become so open about it of late makes it hard to reconcile his lyrics from back in the day to his present-day political views.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/may/30/bigmouth-strikes-again-morrissey-songs-loneliness-shyness-misfits-far-right-party-tonight-show-jimmy-fallon

[matty_f]

Really good article. I love The Smiths but I wouldn't touch anything by Morrissey these days. He just seems like a bitter old racist these days.

[Hiber-nation]

Really good article. I love The Smiths but I wouldn't touch anything by Morrissey these days. He just seems like a bitter old racist these days.

Me too, we should have known after Bengali In Platforms but that was brushed aside at the time.

[Northernhibee]

A tired has been who hasn't done anything of relevance in fifteen years and now needs to appeal to the worst of society to stay in the papers.

I'm surprised he wasn't appointed Scotland manager.

[G B Young]

Me too, we should have known after Bengali In Platforms but that was brushed aside at the time.

As you say, perhaps his true views were lurking there all along. I wonder if Marr managed to keep him in check during the heyday of The Smiths as such views would have alienated much of their fanbase. Once left to his own devices he certainly seems to have become steadily more reckless and outspoken.

Cornershop were apparently burning Morrissey posters as far back as 1992!

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/cornershop-set-fire-to-morrissey-posters-1992-racism/

[Hibernia&Alba]

I don't know what's happened to him. The Smiths were so anti-Thatcher. If he's merely attention seeking, he's far too intelligent for that.

[Fife-Hibee]

He has previous.

In 2014 he told Ireland's Hot Press magazine that Scotland should leave the UK as we didn't need Westminster. Then just last year, people booed him and walked out of the SSE Hydro when he openly criticized Nicola Sturgeon.

Honestly. I think the guys just a bit of an anarchist who likes to create a stir.

[Peevemor]

He has previous.

In 2014 he told Ireland's Hot Press magazine that Scotland should leave the UK as we didn't need Westminster. Then just last year, people booed him and walked out of the SSE Hydro when he openly criticized Nicola Sturgeon.

Honestly. I think the guys just a bit of an anarchist who likes to create a stir.

I've always thought he was a fanny and he seems to be getting worse with age.

[G B Young]

I don't know what's happened to him. The Smiths were so anti-Thatcher. If he's merely attention seeking, he's far too intelligent for that.

I think at best he's simply become a cranky oldish man and at worst more openly racist. Down the years there's been enough ambiguity about some of his statements and actions for the jury to be out, but in recent years calling the Chinese a 'subspecies' and his recent comments about Khan and immigration ('Germany is now the rape capital or Europe') don't really leave any room for doubt.

Perhaps, as I said earlier, Marr was the one who fuelled The Smiths' perceived political identity. Or was Morrissey anti-Thatcher because he didn't agree with her that our future was in Europe? As he said in 1992, "I don’t want to be European. I want England to remain an island".

[JeMeSouviens]

I think at best he's simply become a cranky oldish man and at worst more openly racist. Down the years there's been enough ambiguity about some of his statements and actions for the jury to be out, but in recent years calling the Chinese a 'subspecies' and his recent comments about Khan and immigration ('Germany is now the rape capital or Europe') don't really leave any room for doubt.

Perhaps, as I said earlier, Marr was the one who fuelled The Smiths' perceived political identity. Or was Morrissey anti-Thatcher because he didn't agree with her that our future was in Europe? As he said in 1992, "I don’t want to be European. I want England to remain an island".

The warning signs were there only a few years after the Smiths split when he started literally wrapping himself in the Union flag on stage.


It's so easy to laugh
It's so easy to hate
It takes strength to be gentle and kind


I suppose now I know it's over. :boo hoo:

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think at best he's simply become a cranky oldish man and at worst more openly racist. Down the years there's been enough ambiguity about some of his statements and actions for the jury to be out, but in recent years calling the Chinese a 'subspecies' and his recent comments about Khan and immigration ('Germany is now the rape capital or Europe') don't really leave any room for doubt.

Perhaps, as I said earlier, Marr was the one who fuelled The Smiths' perceived political identity. Or was Morrissey anti-Thatcher because he didn't agree with her that our future was in Europe? As he said in 1992, "I don’t want to be European. I want England to remain an island".

As far as I know, he defined himself as a socialist during The Smiths and denounced Thatcher's economic policy on places like Manchester. He seems to have lost the plot, trying to be outrageous, when some of his remarks simply make look an idiot, which he definitely is not.

[lapsedhibee]

some of his remarks simply make look an idiot, which he definitely is not.


"I want England to remain an island".

:hmmm:

[G B Young]

As far as I know, he defined himself as a socialist during The Smiths and denounced Thatcher's economic policy on places like Manchester. He seems to have lost the plot, trying to be outrageous, when some of his remarks simply make look an idiot, which he definitely is not.

Perhaps that old adage 'if you're not a socialist before you're 25 you have no heart; if you're a socialist after 25 you have no head' applies to Morrissey? He might not have become a Thatcher supporter, but here's what he came out with a few years back: "I nearly voted for Ukip. I like Nigel Farage a great deal. His views are quite logical, especially where Europe is concerned."

[Hibernia&Alba]

Perhaps that old adage 'if you're not a socialist before you're 25 you have no heart; if you're a socialist after 25 you have no head' applies to Morrissey? He might not have become a Thatcher supporter, but here's what he came out with a few years back: "I nearly voted for Ukip. I like Nigel Farage a great deal. His views are quite logical, especially where Europe is concerned."

I prefer this quote from a great man:


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative". John Stuart Mill

[Bangkok Hibby]

An utter irrelevance and a total ****er

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Washed up irrelevant throw back. Stop me if you think you've heard this one before.

[Colr]

I’ve heard Jonny Marr gigs are pretty good.

The Smiths were amazing but Morrissey has turned out to be an utter wholloper

[He's here!]

Posed an interesting question at his London gig last night:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/morrisey-is-right-about-the-manchester-arena-bombing

[hibsbollah]

Posed an interesting question at his London gig last night:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/morrisey-is-right-about-the-manchester-arena-bombing

It’s a fair point about the medias clumsiness around racially sensitive issues. And sometimes by ignoring stories about radical Islam the BBC and the Guardian play into the hands of racists, because they don’t have the tools to have a proper conversation about it.

But Brendan O Neill misses the point that Morrissey IS ‘far right’, it’s not just that his detractors CLAIM he is. He’s intelligent, well informed, and he wants a mythical England where there is less black people. That’s his belief. And I say that as someone who went to his gig at the usher hall when he was more circumspect about going public with his beliefs. National Front Disco came out in the 90s as he went solo, and it was possible to believe it was a piece of irony. Not so much now, when he goes on talk shows with Britain First badges. A reactionary rebel is still a reactionary.

[Kato]

Posed an interesting question at his London gig last night:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/morrisey-is-right-about-the-manchester-arena-bombingIs there anyone who said "go easy on the killer" when talking about the MA bombing? Or does anyone say "don't look back in anger" about the atrocity?

Not saying there aren’t just wondering who they are.

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[hibsbollah]

Is there anyone who said "go easy on the killer" when talking about the MA bombing? Or does anyone say "don't look back in anger" about the atrocity?

Not saying there aren’t just wondering who they are.

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There’s a lot of straw men about…

[Kato]

There’s a lot of straw men about…I wish Morrisey was one of them. He's never been a rebel either. Just an angry pedant with a huge regard for himself.

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[hibsbollah]

I wish Morrisey was one of them. He's never been a rebel either. Just an angry pedant with a huge regard for himself.

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Absolutely loved the Smiths, have to be honest. Still listen to them from time to time.

[hibsbollah]

John Cleese to join GB News to talk about ‘woke issues and cancel culture’. Up the Rebels !

[Kato]

Absolutely loved the Smiths, have to be honest. Still listen to them from time to time.I stick by my initial impression. I saw The Smiths supporting The Gang of Four in London early 80's. I thought then more or less what I think now, good band spoiled by a dickhead frontman who has a really annoying voice. Nothing has changed my mind.

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[He's here!]

Is there anyone who said "go easy on the killer" when talking about the MA bombing? Or does anyone say "don't look back in anger" about the atrocity?

Not saying there aren’t just wondering who they are.

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IIRC Don't Look Back in Anger became the anthem for the One Manchester events that were held in the wake of the bombing, with various artists coming together to sing it.

[hibsbollah]

IIRC Don't Look Back in Anger became the anthem for the One Manchester events that were held in the wake of the bombing, with various artists coming together to sing it.

It seems fair to assume that the choice of an inclusive, 'coming together' song title was about healing, not because it was 'letting the perpetrator off with it because he was a muslim', which is presumably Morrissey's argument? But that's a self fulfilling prophesy, because the man is a racist.

[Kato]

IIRC Don't Look Back in Anger became the anthem for the One Manchester events that were held in the wake of the bombing, with various artists coming together to sing it.Were they singing that about the bomber?

Did anyone say "go easy on the killer".

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[He's here!]

Were they singing that about the bomber?

Did anyone say "go easy on the killer".

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No idea. I doubt any rational person said go easy on the killer.

Some background from the NME:

https://www.nme.com/news/music/morrissey-debuts-new-song-bonfire-of-teenagers-about-manchester-arena-bombing-3262238

[Kato]

No idea. I doubt any rational person said go easy on the killer.

Some background from the NME:

https://www.nme.com/news/music/morrissey-debuts-new-song-bonfire-of-teenagers-about-manchester-arena-bombing-3262238Am not going to click that one as the original link wasn't interesting at all. Just him finding a way to be a bit more fascisty. If you think about what he is saying his argument falls apart in a few seconds.

The NME and Morrisey. Had my fill of that one, cheers.

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[He's here!]

Am not going to click that one as the original link wasn't interesting at all. Just him finding a way to be a bit more fascisty. If you think about what he is saying his argument falls apart in a few seconds.

The NME and Morrisey. Had my fill of that one, cheers.

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Fair enough.

What interested me more than the song's lyrics was the question he posed at the gig (which can be separated from Morissey's argument/politics). Why is it that a mass murderer like Abedi, whose horrific crime was so recent, is a less instantly remembered name than one from long ago like Hindley? Or, for that matter, a Fred West, Harold Shipman or Peter Tobin?

[Smartie]

Fair enough.

What interested me more than the song's lyrics was the question he posed at the gig, which can be separated from Morissey's argument/politics. Why is it that a mass murderer like Abedi, whose horrific crime was so recent, is a less instantly remembered name than one from long ago like Hindley? Or, for that matter, a Fred West, Harold Shipman or Peter Tobin?

Personally I don't think the murderer deserves the profile or notoriety that goes with such a vile act. To be quietly forgotten rather than held up as anything is probably the best way to go. Why should Morrissey be trying to contribute towards his martyrdom?

Morrissey is an idiot of the highest order. I'll acknowledge his contribution to some great songs a few decades ago but I was never even a fan of his whiny voice.

Johnny Marr on the other hand is a bona fide legend.

[He's here!]

Personally I don't think the murderer deserves the profile or notoriety that goes with such a vile act. To be quietly forgotten rather than held up as anything is probably the best way to go. Why should Morrissey be trying to contribute towards his martyrdom?

Morrissey is an idiot of the highest order. I'll acknowledge his contribution to some great songs a few decades ago but I was never even a fan of his whiny voice.

Johnny Marr on the other hand is a bona fide legend.

Yeh I'd agree it would be better if the names of such barbaric killers were to be forgotten. Their notoriety prevents that, however. While Abedi's actions were as horrific as any perhaps the one-off nature of the atrocity (as opposed to the years of killings by Hindley) means the act itself and its devastating legacy are more remembered than his name.

I was never a big Smiths fan but would acknowledge that the Morrissey/Marr partnership yielded a catalogue of music that meant the world to their devotees. I think both were equally integral to the band's success.

[AgentDaleCooper]

without Jonny Marr, he'd just have been a really weird poet, and not a very good one. his words worked as songs, where having a certain vibe has more mileage than words on a page. tbh, it seems to me that this song 'bonfire of teenagers' is horrifically exploiting a tragedy for the sake of his own ego, from which his ghastly beliefs emanate. absolute bell end.

[Kato]

Fair enough.

What interested me more than the song's lyrics was the question he posed at the gig (which can be separated from Morissey's argument/politics). Why is it that a mass murderer like Abedi, whose horrific crime was so recent, is a less instantly remembered name than one from long ago like Hindley? Or, for that matter, a Fred West, Harold Shipman or Peter Tobin?How many names of terrorists slip of the tongue? How many serial killers?

The geopolitical nutters aren't embedded into collective conscious. There's a Harold Shipman doc on every couple of hours on the Channel 5s, there's 10 part series streaming on practically every platform about any serial killer you want. Most of their names are remembered in jokes or rhymes.

It's the lurid angle alluded to the other day with Tobin. People are natural curtain twitchers, terrorism is too dry for jokes and jump-frights. Morrisey curtain twitched himself in the 80s, with the moors murderers.

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[WeeRussell]

Fair enough.

What interested me more than the song's lyrics was the question he posed at the gig (which can be separated from Morissey's argument/politics). Why is it that a mass murderer like Abedi, whose horrific crime was so recent, is a less instantly remembered name than one from long ago like Hindley? Or, for that matter, a Fred West, Harold Shipman or Peter Tobin?

People like Hindley are trialled and jailed and alive in our media for decades after their crimes. They become infamous names and personalities.

Suicide bombers blow themselves to pieces before we ever know who they are. It doesn’t mean we’re sympathetic or forgiving to them because they’re Muslims.

[Hibs Class]

Personally I don't think the murderer deserves the profile or notoriety that goes with such a vile act. To be quietly forgotten rather than held up as anything is probably the best way to go. Why should Morrissey be trying to contribute towards his martyrdom?

Morrissey is an idiot of the highest order. I'll acknowledge his contribution to some great songs a few decades ago but I was never even a fan of his whiny voice.

Johnny Marr on the other hand is a bona fide legend.

:agree: Was at Madison Square Garden a week past for the Killers and Johnny Marr was the support - really pleasant hearing a couple of Smiths songs without Morrisey.

[Rocky]

It's standard practice in the media to not focus on the perpetrators of terrorist acts, to avoid glorification and martyrdom. Essentially it's a form of propaganda (by omission) but there's an awful lot of research papers and discussion on the subject and I guess it works. When I think back to the Manchester Arena bombing the thought in my mind (aside from the horror of the bombing itself) is the unity of and with the people of Manchester. I haven't a scooby what cause the terrorist was supporting.

There's even a UNESCO handbook about the portrayal of terrorism in the media.

https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000247074

[hibsbollah]

It's standard practice in the media to not focus on the perpetrators of terrorist acts, to avoid glorification and martyrdom. Essentially it's a form of propaganda (by omission) but there's an awful lot of research papers and discussion on the subject and I guess it works. When I think back to the Manchester Arena bombing the thought in my mind (aside from the horror of the bombing itself) is the unity of and with the people of Manchester. I haven't a scooby what cause the terrorist was supporting.

There's even a UNESCO handbook about the portrayal of terrorism in the media.

https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000247074

That’s right. I remember thinking the same about the neo Nazi nail bomber back in the 90s (Brick Lane and the Admiral Duncan pub in Soho, remember that?) and wondering why his name wasn’t widely known. Mark something I think? It’s to avoid martyrdom.

[Rocky]

That’s right. I remember thinking the same about the neo Nazi nail bomber back in the 90s (Brick Lane and the Admiral Duncan pub in Soho, remember that?) and wondering why his name wasn’t widely known. Mark something I think? It’s to avoid martyrdom.

I actually walked past the Admiral Duncan a couple of months back and it stirred a memory of that nail bombing. Couldn't have told you the guy's name or that he was a neo Nazi though.

It's just weird that a racist like Morrissey can climb on a stage and make out he's discovered some kind of right wing gotcha which then gets propagated round the internet when a minute's thinking or research would have shown it to be a daft point.

[Kato]

I actually walked past the Admiral Duncan a couple of months back and it stirred a memory of that nail bombing. Couldn't have told you the guy's name or that he was a neo Nazi though.

It's just weird that a racist like Morrissey can climb on a stage and make out he's discovered some kind of right wing gotcha which then gets propagated round the internet when a minute's thinking or research would have shown it to be a daft point.His ilk wouldn't mind a few Islamist martyrs. Keeps the hate churn going.

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[He's here!]

without Jonny Marr, he'd just have been a really weird poet, and not a very good one. his words worked as songs, where having a certain vibe has more mileage than words on a page. tbh, it seems to me that this song 'bonfire of teenagers' is horrifically exploiting a tragedy for the sake of his own ego, from which his ghastly beliefs emanate. absolute bell end.

Whatever your opinions of Morrissey as a person, you're doing him a disservice there. His input was utterly essential to the Smiths and without his collaboration with Morrissey it's unlikely Johnny Marr would be as respected as he is today.

What if it were Marr who had gone on to express the views Morrissey does these days? Would you still respect his musicianship?

Takes us into the realms of respect for the art, not the artist ie it's easy enough to jettison the likes of Gary Glitter's career to the dustbin in the wake of his imprisonment because he simply wasn't really much of a talent (although he commanded a hefty following at one point), whereas it's harder for long-time Morrissey fans to completely let him go because he's a genuinely talented artist with a body of work to back that up.

[hibsbollah]

Whatever your opinions of Morrissey as a person, you're doing him a disservice there. His input was utterly essential to the Smiths and without his collaboration with Morrissey it's unlikely Johnny Marr would be as respected as he is today.

What if it were Marr who had gone on to express the views Morrissey does these days? Would you still respect his musicianship?

Takes us into the realms of respect for the art, not the artist ie it's easy enough to jettison the likes of Gary Glitter's career to the dustbin in the wake of his imprisonment because he simply wasn't really much of a talent (although he commanded a hefty following at one point), whereas it's harder for long-time Morrissey fans to completely let him go because he's a genuinely talented artist with a body of work to back that up.

I agree with you on that one.

[Smartie]

Whatever your opinions of Morrissey as a person, you're doing him a disservice there. His input was utterly essential to the Smiths and without his collaboration with Morrissey it's unlikely Johnny Marr would be as respected as he is today.

What if it were Marr who had gone on to express the views Morrissey does these days? Would you still respect his musicianship?

Takes us into the realms of respect for the art, not the artist ie it's easy enough to jettison the likes of Gary Glitter's career to the dustbin in the wake of his imprisonment because he simply wasn't really much of a talent (although he commanded a hefty following at one point), whereas it's harder for long-time Morrissey fans to completely let him go because he's a genuinely talented artist with a body of work to back that up.

Yeah, I also think there’s a bit of the “being greater than the sum of the parts” about The Smiths / Morrissey and Marr / many others.

I suppose it’s a bit unfair to diminish Morrissey’s entire contribution just because his voice isn’t to my taste and he’s turned into an absolute weapon later in life.

[Kato]

Whatever your opinions of Morrissey as a person, you're doing him a disservice there. His input was utterly essential to the Smiths and without his collaboration with Morrissey it's unlikely Johnny Marr would be as respected as he is today.

What if it were Marr who had gone on to express the views Morrissey does these days? Would you still respect his musicianship?

Takes us into the realms of respect for the art, not the artist ie it's easy enough to jettison the likes of Gary Glitter's career to the dustbin in the wake of his imprisonment because he simply wasn't really much of a talent (although he commanded a hefty following at one point), whereas it's harder for long-time Morrissey fans to completely let him go because he's a genuinely talented artist with a body of work to back that up.That's similar to Nick Caves view of Morrisey's work.

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[He's here!]

That's similar to Nick Caves view of Morrisey's work.

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I just checked that out. He makes some very valid points IMHO.

Incidentally it seems Gary Glitter DOES in fact still attract fans (albeit the article was written a few years back):

The Gary Glitter fans who still follow the leader | Pop and rock | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/01/gary-glitter-fans-paul-gadd-facebook)

[AgentDaleCooper]

Yeah, I also think there’s a bit of the “being greater than the sum of the parts” about The Smiths / Morrissey and Marr / many others.

I suppose it’s a bit unfair to diminish Morrissey’s entire contribution just because his voice isn’t to my taste and he’s turned into an absolute weapon later in life.

yeah, I think this is sort of what I was getting at - he's obviously very creative and unique, but I think he's very lucky that he had such great chemistry, in a way that IMO, for example, Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood don't rely on, particularly the former...I know I'm comparing apples and oranges...and obviously any 'great' band is partly going to be bigger than the sum of its parts...don't know what my point is TBH. Probably something along the lines of 'he was always a bit over-rated, quite style over substance, and now that he's outed himself as a complete and utter walloper, I can't really be ersed with his music at all.'

something like that anyway :aok: