Scottish attendances

[Since452]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48473238

Hopefully we can continue as the third biggest supported club in Scotland next season. Impressive considering we cut the uglies allocation earlier in the season.

[Iggy Pope]

Nice read.

[Jones28]

Aberdeen must be wondering wtf they've to do to get numbers through the gates.

[Diclonius]

Aberdeen must be wondering wtf they've to do to get numbers through the gates.

New stadium might sort that.

[HoboHarry]

But, but, but....... I thought Hearts were the biggest and huuuuuugest supported team outside of Glasgow?

[Steven79]

But, but, but....... I thought Hearts were the biggest and huuuuuugest supported team outside of Glasgow?

We only have higher crowds because we give away 5000 free tickets to every game....

[where'stheslope]

New stadium might sort that.

New stadium could mean higher prices, so could have the opposite effect????

[Billy Whizz]

Aberdeen must be wondering wtf they've to do to get numbers through the gates.

Play football

[Iggy Pope]

New stadium might sort that.

How so? They've played at Pittodrie for a lifetime, yours, mine and everyone else on here.
St Johnstone play in a 'new' stadium......

[04Sauzee]

Doesn't seem to be a thread on Kickback reporting this

[Bostonhibby]

How so? They've played at Pittodrie for a lifetime, yours, mine and everyone else on here.
St Johnstone play in a 'new' stadium......And we're now basking in the new stand effect down gorgie way.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Stevie Reid]

Doncaster's got a ****ing nerve claiming that Scottish football "continues to punch above its weight" - this was the **** who was claiming armageddon was coming without Rangers in the SPL.

[Steven79]

How so? They've played at Pittodrie for a lifetime, yours, mine and everyone else on here.
St Johnstone play in a 'new' stadium......

It's 30 years old!

[Wakeyhibee]

Doncaster's got a ****ing nerve claiming that Scottish football "continues to punch above its weight" - this was the **** who was claiming armageddon was coming without Rangers in the SPL.

I don't like Doncaster but his first comment is accurate in that per capita Scottish football is well supported. Its just a shame that roughly half support just 2 teams.

[Stevie Reid]

I don't like Doncaster but his first comment is accurate in that per capita Scottish football is well supported. Its just a shame that roughly half support just 2 teams.

I'm not arguing that point, and it is great. I'm taking issue with Doncaster using such language when he was predicting its demise without Rangers.

[Aim Here]

New stadium might sort that.

I'm sceptical. The location is atrocious. They're moving from somewhere within walking distance of the town centre to somewhere 6 miles out of town. 1/3 of the people going to Pittodrie walk to the stadium on match day, and those guys, if they're still going, are now being made to use motor transport, as well as almost everybody who currently drives, along one single road.

I suspect a few matchweekends of painful gridlock will see a lot of the more casual fans start to drift away.

[Since452]

Doesn't seem to be a thread on Kickback reporting this

Aye but 5-1

[NAE NOOKIE]

Its never a bad thing to see attendances on an upward spiral. How much that has to do with the likes of Doncaster is open to question, how much better might those figures be if cup semi finals were at reasonable times and we had fewer lunch time kick offs for league matches.

All that being said. If you match up the top 5 clubs in Scotland against the likes of Europe's top leagues outside of the EPL and Bundesliga we do pretty well. Going by figures for the 17/18 season this is how Hibs and Aberdeen would match up., with the ugly sisters obviously doing far better.

Spain …. Hibs 13th …. Aberdeen 17th

Italy …. Hibs 14th …. Aberdeen 15th

France …. Hibs 11th …. Aberdeen 13th

Netherlands …. Hibs 7th …. Aberdeen 10th …. ( against attendances for Dutch 18/19 season )

English Championship …. Hibs 15th …. Aberdeen 19th

When you consider the 5 countries on that list have populations far bigger than Scotland we don't do too badly at all :aok:

[007]

Funny how the Jambo reporting on it in the EEN leaves out the breakdown showing each clubs' attendances.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/scottish-football-attendances-increase-for-the-4th-season-running-near-the-4-5m-mark-1-4938525

[2belhaven]

Can someone tell me what the season ticket sales for Hibs and Hearts were last season. 2018/19
Recall we were around 13,500

[Since452]

Its never a bad thing to see attendances on an upward spiral. How much that has to do with the likes of Doncaster is open to question, how much better might those figures be if cup semi finals were at reasonable times and we had fewer lunch time kick offs for league matches.

All that being said. If you match up the top 5 clubs in Scotland against the likes of Europe's top leagues outside of the EPL and Bundesliga we do pretty well. Going by figures for the 17/18 season this is how Hibs and Aberdeen would match up., with the ugly sisters obviously doing far better.

Spain …. Hibs 13th …. Aberdeen 17th

Italy …. Hibs 14th …. Aberdeen 15th

France …. Hibs 11th …. Aberdeen 13th

Netherlands …. Hibs 7th …. Aberdeen 10th …. ( against attendances for Dutch 18/19 season )

English Championship …. Hibs 15th …. Aberdeen 19th

When you consider the 5 countries on that list have populations far bigger than Scotland we don't do too badly at all :aok:

Interesting. Wonder how that compares to clubs in Norway etc

[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting. Wonder how that compares to clubs in Norway etc

Might also be worth comparing attendance figures with TV amounts paid to each league.

[Hakim Sar]

So Hamilton could play an entire season and still not come close to filling a stadium the size of Celtic Park? Barely filling Ibrox also.

How do they even come close to maintaining a ground and a squad of players?

[Wakeyhibee]

Interesting. Wonder how that compares to clubs in Norway etc

Hibs 17k
Hearts 17k
Rosenberg 16k
Aberdeen 14k
Brann 10k
Valerenga 9k
Molde 7k

Other 5k and below mostly. Dunno the TV money side although I think they get more than the SPFL.

Figures are from their 2018 league season
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avenor.htm

[04Sauzee]

TV deals for other European leagues, apologies its the DR

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-football-paid-a-pittance-10124880

[Since452]

Hearts need to get used to being behind Hibs both in league position and attendances. Natural order is very different without money laundering.

[Keith_M]

Austria has a population of around 8.5 million but they only have one club that has average attendances higher than Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen... and even that was only about 1,400 per game more than Hibs.

[KDY Hibs]

Hearts need to get used to being behind Hibs both in league position and attendances. Natural order is very different without money laundering.

This 100% hearts are a smaller club. Post cheating has lowered their ranking, and if they keep up the good work, Aberdeen will move swiftly into 4th....

[Billy Whizz]

Austria has a population of around 8.5 million but they only have one club that has average attendances higher than Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen... and even that was only about 1,400 per game more than Hibs.

Probably TV/Sponsorship money

[Jones28]

New stadium might sort that.

Can't see it, if they don't attend a stadium in their city they aren't going to trek to an out of town one!

[beensaidbefore]

Doesn't seem to be a thread on Kickback reporting this

:smug:

[beensaidbefore]

Funny how the Jambo reporting on it in the EEN leaves out the breakdown showing each clubs' attendances.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/scottish-football-attendances-increase-for-the-4th-season-running-near-the-4-5m-mark-1-4938525

Thought that myself. Even funnier imo. Shows how much it must hurt them. Hahaha

[LancashireHibby]

Might be an unpopular opinion but I think one of the great aspects of the Edinburgh derby is that neither side are ever too far in front of the other, both on and off the pitch.

[Billy Whizz]

Might be an unpopular opinion but I think one of the great aspects of the Edinburgh derby is that neither side are ever too far in front of the other, both on and off the pitch.

It’s very rare of recent times, for both of us to do well at the same time

[Sammy7nil]

Might be an unpopular opinion but I think one of the great aspects of the Edinburgh derby is that neither side are ever too far in front of the other, both on and off the pitch.

Ha ha Hearts were dominant for years. They have won more Derbies at ER than Hibs have.

[LancashireHibby]

It’s very rare of recent times, for both of us to do well at the same time
Quite often mince at the same time though!

[poolman]

We only have higher crowds because we give away 5000 free tickets to every game....


Ah but how can we afford that when we have to pay STF £500,000 every year

[where'stheslope]

Thought that myself. Even funnier imo. Shows how much it must hurt them. Hahaha
Whoever did the sums on attendances were D- at school!!
We played 19 home games this year, the Hertz played 18!!!
Take the total attendances and divide by 19 and 18 and its "whack whack oops"!!!!
It makes us on 17.5K to over 18K?????

[cocteautwin]

Whoever did the sums on attendances were D- at school!!
We played 19 home games this year, the Hertz played 18!!!
Take the total attendances and divide by 19 and 18 and its "whack whack oops"!!!!
It makes us on 17.5K to over 18K?????

WRONG. We both played 19 at home and away.

[where'stheslope]

WRONG. We both played 19 at home and away.
They only played 2 games at home after the split, we played 3!

[007]

They only played 2 games at home after the split, we played 3!

They played 17 home and 16 away before the split. We played 16 home and 17 away before the split.

[Eyrie]

They only played 2 games at home after the split, we played 3!

They had nothing to play for after the split, so fewer home games post-split actually helps their average attendance because they had their meaningful games earlier in the season.

We only had one home game when there was nothing to play for, and that the was the last game against Aberdeen.

[Montford]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

Here’s a great link - gives all European average attendances
You’ll be surprised to see Scotland way above the likes of Russia, Poland, Turkey, Belgium, Portugal etc
Which makes you wonder. Why do we associate Turkey with big crowds and atmospheres when it’s patently not true. Maybe just the crowds come out for European games.. or they market their TV pictures in a positive manner..
Also, can’t get my head around, why Edinburgh as the 7th biggest city in the UK doesn’t have the crowds to match
Edinburgh is bigger than Liverpool, Bristol, Southampton and Portsmouth combined, and the same size as Sheffield
We should be realistically getting 25-30,000 each week

[Renfrew_Hibby]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

Here’s a great link - gives all European average attendances
You’ll be surprised to see Scotland way above the likes of Russia, Poland, Turkey, Belgium, Portugal etc
Which makes you wonder. Why do we associate Turkey with big crowds and atmospheres when it’s patently not true. Maybe just the crowds come out for European games.. or they market their TV pictures in a positive manner..
Also, can’t get my head around, why Edinburgh as the 7th biggest city in the UK doesn’t have the crowds to match
Edinburgh is bigger than Liverpool, Bristol, Southampton and Portsmouth combined, and the same size as Sheffield
We should be realistically getting 25-30,000 each week

Its not as simple as the size of the city.
Edinburgh may be the larger stand alone city but the likes of Liverpool, Sheffield and Newcastle dwarf Edinburgh with their metro populations.
Sheffield for example probably has around 2M in and around the city. Yorkshire remember has a larger population than the whole of Scotland.
The demographs of Edinburgh are very different to that of say Liverpool, Edinburgh has a larger than normal middle class and is far more cosmopolitan, less likely to be fervent fitba fans.
We also have to live with the omni presence of the old firm dominating decade after decade to grind us down.

[RyeSloan]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

Here’s a great link - gives all European average attendances
You’ll be surprised to see Scotland way above the likes of Russia, Poland, Turkey, Belgium, Portugal etc
Which makes you wonder. Why do we associate Turkey with big crowds and atmospheres when it’s patently not true. Maybe just the crowds come out for European games.. or they market their TV pictures in a positive manner..
Also, can’t get my head around, why Edinburgh as the 7th biggest city in the UK doesn’t have the crowds to match
Edinburgh is bigger than Liverpool, Bristol, Southampton and Portsmouth combined, and the same size as Sheffield
We should be realistically getting 25-30,000 each week

Well we don’t have the stadium for starters!!

And don’t forget these large averages for Hibs are a very new phenomenon.

It could be argued that actually we are starting to see the types of crowds we should be getting and IF Scottish football as a whole could up its game then there would be plenty of scope for even more to watch down ER way (with the corners filled in!).

As it is an average of around 17k is excellent stuff and I’d love us to try and push on from there.

[Since452]

We're begining to see the massive potential we've always heard about. The Hibs fan base is gigantic as shown by the 40k at the Livi final and 30k at the Ross County final. It's always been there but mostly dormant. Winning the Scottish Cup really did awaken a sleeping giant.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's a superb effort; crowds have really lifted since the cup win. Before that we were struggling to hit ten thousand. Let's hope it continues long term.

[NAE NOOKIE]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

Here’s a great link - gives all European average attendances
You’ll be surprised to see Scotland way above the likes of Russia, Poland, Turkey, Belgium, Portugal etc
Which makes you wonder. Why do we associate Turkey with big crowds and atmospheres when it’s patently not true. Maybe just the crowds come out for European games.. or they market their TV pictures in a positive manner..
Also, can’t get my head around, why Edinburgh as the 7th biggest city in the UK doesn’t have the crowds to match
Edinburgh is bigger than Liverpool, Bristol, Southampton and Portsmouth combined, and the same size as Sheffield
We should be realistically getting 25-30,000 each week

Already been answered, but the demographics are totally different …. there are a million people in the Bristol metropolitan area, how come City and Rovers, two clubs with nothing like the competition Hibs contend with within a 50 mile radius, don't play in front of 30 or 40 thousand every week?

Bare in mind that Edinburgh's population is made up of many folk who live in the city but who aren't 'locals' and the crowds both Hibs and Hearts get stand up brilliantly to many English metropolitan areas which in reality are far far larger.

[superfurryhibby]

Well we don’t have the stadium for starters!!

And don’t forget these large averages for Hibs are a very new phenomenon.

It could be argued that actually we are starting to see the types of crowds we should be getting and IF Scottish football as a whole could up its game then there would be plenty of scope for even more to watch down ER way (with the corners filled in!).

As it is an average of around 17k is excellent stuff and I’d love us to try and push on from there.

It’s not a new phenomenon, it’s a slight reversal of the slow erosion of our football attending fanbase. Hibs were still drawing big crowds to Easter Road well into the 70’s. The difference is that the Old Firm crowds have never dwindled ( long term- I know both have had very low attendances at times).

The demographic factors mentioned by another poster, and the sad love in with the Old Firm that many folk from the Lothian conurbation areas are big factors as to why we struggle to pull in big crowds, but I still wonder where all these Hibees have gone?

The other mystery is why our tv deal is so ***** by comparison many of the less well supported leagues?

[Onion]

We're begining to see the massive potential we've always heard about. The Hibs fan base is gigantic as shown by the 40k at the Livi final and 30k at the Ross County final. It's always been there but mostly dormant. Winning the Scottish Cup really did awaken a sleeping giant.

Like every support there are different types of "supporter". At that game, there were thousands of wives, girlfriends, pals and kids that rarely go to matches.

There's a core 8-10k Hibs fans who will follow Hibs whatever happens, 5-7k who will come along if the club is doing well and a few more thousand who are prepared to come along for special occasions. Getting any of the last lot along to ER on regular basis is a huge task.

[Jones28]

Like every support there are different types of "supporter". At that game, there were thousands of wives, girlfriends, pals and kids that rarely go to matches.

There's a core 8-10k Hibs fans who will follow Hibs whatever happens, 5-7k who will come along if the club is doing well and a few more thousand who are prepared to come along for special occasions. Getting any of the last lot along to ER on regular basis is a huge task.

RE the last lot, absolutely impossible to get them to ER. There is no desire from a huge proportion of Hibs "fans" to actually go to games.

If you take the 150k at the parade for example, I wonder how many of them over the course of the season actually attended ER?

[ionahibby]

RE the last lot, absolutely impossible to get them to ER. There is no desire from a huge proportion of Hibs "fans" to actually go to games.

If you take the 150k at the parade for example, I wonder how many of them over the course of the season actually attended ER?

It doesn’t make them any less a hibs supporter though. Not everybody goes to the games for whatever reason. There seems to be certain amount of folk that think that you aren’t a supporter if you don’t go to x amount of games a season.

[Jones28]

It doesn’t make them any less a hibs supporter though. Not everybody goes to the games for whatever reason. There seems to be certain amount of folk that think that you aren’t a supporter if you don’t go to x amount of games a season.

That's not the point, it's not an uber fan debate. It's about getting people along to games, you're not suggesting that if 40,000 of the 150,000 parade attendees went to ER over the course of the season to remaining 110,000 can't go due to finances or health or any other reason?

[Iggy Pope]

It doesn’t make them any less a hibs supporter though. Not everybody goes to the games for whatever reason. There seems to be certain amount of folk that think that you aren’t a supporter if you don’t go to x amount of games a season.

Going to games, most games or some games, is pretty important though, in the grand scheme of things, don’t you think? The thread is about attendances after all. Not potential or disenfranchised.

[Wakeyhibee]

2016 has certainly been a factor latterly.

Stadium facilities and a more familly friendly atmosphere has been a factor since the late 90s.

What is for sure is the latent support has always been there (Dunfy final). And all of this progress has been against a backdrop of OF domination for 30 years which you would think would have the opposite affect.

I think Hibs may be hitting the top end of what they can expect given the success and investment required to take it to the next level.

[RyeSloan]

It’s not a new phenomenon, it’s a slight reversal of the slow erosion of our football attending fanbase. Hibs were still drawing big crowds to Easter Road well into the 70’s. The difference is that the Old Firm crowds have never dwindled ( long term- I know both have had very low attendances at times).

The demographic factors mentioned by another poster, and the sad love in with the Old Firm that many folk from the Lothian conurbation areas are big factors as to why we struggle to pull in big crowds, but I still wonder where all these Hibees have gone?

The other mystery is why our tv deal is so ***** by comparison many of the less well supported leagues?

An average attendance of that size is a new phenomenon...unless you count new as being over 40 years ago.

One off crowds obv. not but for average attendance it defo is.

Anyway long may it continue!! [emoji106][emoji106]

[neil7908]

Austria has a population of around 8.5 million but they only have one club that has average attendances higher than Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen... and even that was only about 1,400 per game more than Hibs.

Someone really needs to challenge Doncaster and the SFA about why they are failing so badly at marketing our game.

As a number of posts in this thread have shown, we have the crowds in Scotland (and not just the OF) to compare favourably with countries of a similar size in Europe. And yet we get a pittance of the TV money they do and the powers that be seem happy to keep taking their salary and entrenching the status quo.

[Keith_M]

Edinburgh and the Lothians has a combined population of 840,000. As there are only two long established football clubs in the area, the attendances of both are actually quite low.

There's a number of reasons for that, not least of which is the all pervasive influence of the Old Firm, where tens of thousands profess them as their favoured team, though a large number of those never actually go to a game.

There's also a considerably high demographic of the middle-classes in Edinburgh, a group that traditionally don't have as much interest in following football (I'm not saying none of them do, before anybody asks). Rugby seems to be the sport of choice for the large numbers who were educated at private schools in the city.

Each to their own, I suppose.

[Islington Hibs]

Like every support there are different types of "supporter". At that game, there were thousands of wives, girlfriends, pals and kids that rarely go to matches.

There's a core 8-10k Hibs fans who will follow Hibs whatever happens, 5-7k who will come along if the club is doing well and a few more thousand who are prepared to come along for special occasions. Getting any of the last lot along to ER on regular basis is a huge task.


That’s probably right but another way of looking at it (and we can't really know the answer as I suspect the data isn't available, even to the Board) is how many different people go along each season to support Hibs. There are around 14,000 seasons but I would guess another 15-20,000 different people attend, at the home end, at least once. Any marketing exec will tell you the easiest customer to convert is an existing one and if we are to sell out each week it is getting the occasional to come more often. Really only two ways to do this a) a successful entertaining team b) price structure like easyJet - but suspect that might be counter-productive.

[where'stheslope]

Like every support there are different types of "supporter". At that game, there were thousands of wives, girlfriends, pals and kids that rarely go to matches.

There's a core 8-10k Hibs fans who will follow Hibs whatever happens, 5-7k who will come along if the club is doing well and a few more thousand who are prepared to come along for special occasions. Getting any of the last lot along to ER on regular basis is a huge task.
I also think that all seated stadiums have played a part, as if your girlfriend, pal or relations want to go with you they can't just turn up and sit beside you!
The having to give back your seat and then find several seats together in another part of the stadium makes it tiresome!
Plus not being able to turn up and pay at the gate puts off the majority of casual attendees, having to arrive at the ground early then having to queue for tickets then queue to get in is a bit long winded!!!
Even if only 1 of the stands were made pay at the gate for "B" matches, could help in attracting casual tourists or supporters!!!!!

[California-Hibs]

Nah nah nah can't be true, we doctor our attendances don't you know?

[Since452]

Nah nah nah can't be true, we doctor our attendances don't you know?

But at least we sell out derbys and cup finals