Next general election

[SHODAN]

Thought I might as well start this off with the revelation that the LDs are now WINNING in the latest opinion poll. People have short memories I guess.

[Hibbyradge]

The SNP are in government in Scotland and swept the board in the Euros 2 weeks ago.

People do have short memories, I guess.i may have said something similar elsewhere recently.

:greengrin

They're in the lead, and the BP is second because Brexit is the single most important issue that this country has faced since WWII.

I'm glad that Liberals are polling well. It must put pressure on Labour to come off the fence and support a 2nd ref, and support remain, properly this time.

[SHODAN]

The SNP are in government in Scotland and swept the board in the Euros 2 weeks ago.

People do have short memories, I guess.i may have said something similar elsewhere recently.

:greengrin

They're in the lead, and the BP is second because Brexit is the single most important issue that this country has faced since WWII.

I'm glad that Liberals are polling well. It must put pressure on Labour to come off the fence and support a 2nd ref, and support remain, properly this time.

Not arguing with you on that, but I think if Corbyn won't fully commit now then he never will. The grassroots need to realise that and install a left-wing Labour leader who's pro-Remain.

[JeMeSouviens]

Not arguing with you on that, but I think if Corbyn won't fully commit now then he never will. The grassroots need to realise that and install a left-wing Labour leader who's pro-Remain.

Their party conference is going to be the big showdown I think.

It's incredible the way they're handling it. Even if they wholeheartedly, enthusiatically supported their own fantasy Brexit policy, it would hardly satisfy a single Leave supporter. Most of them think May's deal is a Brexit-in-name-only sellout, and it's a hard Brexit! So there's no avenue available to make themselves Brexity enough for the Leavers but they refuse to go the other way and are losing all their Remainers as a result. It's as baffling as it is depressing. :confused:

[Fife-Hibee]

Their party conference is going to be the big showdown I think.

It's incredible the way they're handling it. Even if they wholeheartedly, enthusiatically supported their own fantasy Brexit policy, it would hardly satisfy a single Leave supporter. Most of them think May's deal is a Brexit-in-name-only sellout, and it's a hard Brexit! So there's no avenue available to make themselves Brexity enough for the Leavers but they refuse to go the other way and are losing all their Remainers as a result. It's as baffling as it is depressing. :confused:

The sure sign of a party that is doing it's very best not to take over government. As I keep reiterating, they don't want to be in government. The next government is doomed to fail, regardless of who it is and they don't want it to be them.

[Mr Grieves]

Thought I might as well start this off with the revelation that the LDs are now WINNING in the latest opinion poll. People have short memories I guess.

Projections for the number of seats each party would win in this scenario, suggest that Labour in 3rd place and the tories in 4th place would still win the most seats. First past the Post is an absolute joke.

[Fife-Hibee]

Projections for the number of seats each party would win in this scenario, suggest that Labour in 3rd place and the tories in 4th place would still win the most seats. First past the Post is an absolute joke.

What would be the alternative to FPTP and how would it be implemented?

[Moulin Yarns]

What would be the alternative to FPTP and how would it be implemented?

Believe it or not we had a referendum as recently as 2011 on proportional representation. The option was for an alternative vote system. It was defeated by 62% to 38%.

The AV system you rank candidates in order of preference.

[Ozyhibby]

Believe it or not we had a referendum as recently as 2011 on proportional representation. The option was for an alternative vote system. It was defeated by 62% to 38%.

The AV system you rank candidates in order of preference.

PR would be unfair on parties in Scotland, Wales and NI.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Believe it or not we had a referendum as recently as 2011 on proportional representation. The option was for an alternative vote system. It was defeated by 62% to 38%.

The AV system you rank candidates in order of preference.

We do this at local council elections. But it seems to confuse a lot of people who just want to back one particular candidate and are not sure whether numbering the other candidates will be beneficial to their candidate or not.

[Smartie]

Believe it or not we had a referendum as recently as 2011 on proportional representation. The option was for an alternative vote system. It was defeated by 62% to 38%.

The AV system you rank candidates in order of preference.

Was that not driven by the LibDems, and getting a referendum on this was one of the main reasons that they went into coalition?

[JeMeSouviens]

Believe it or not we had a referendum as recently as 2011 on proportional representation. The option was for an alternative vote system. It was defeated by 62% to 38%.

The AV system you rank candidates in order of preference.

AV isn't really PR.

Under AV we would've kept the existing constituencies. The difference between AV and the current FPTP is that you can't win the seat outright with less than 50% of the vote. If all candidates have less than 50%, the last candidate is eliminated and their votes are redistributed to their second choice candidate (if they had one). If still no 50%, the second last eliminated and so on.

The best system to use for Westminster (imo) would be Single Transferable Vote (STV) which is what we use for local council elections. Under that system you'd have much larger constituencies which would elect multiple MPs each (Ireland uses this for the Dail and the constituencies are typically 4-5 TDs). Each party can put up several candidates and you cast votes by ranking them in order of preference.

[7 Up]

It seems unlikely there will be a general election until the Brexit fiasco is resolved one way or another. Both Tories and Labour would be on a hiding to nothing and therefore have a mutual interest in avoiding an election.

[Moulin Yarns]

Latest polling for a Westminster election

Brexit 26%
Labour 22%
Conservative 17%
Libdem 16%
Green 11%
SNP 4%



https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/brexit-party-nigel-farage-lead-opinion-poll-conservatives-opinium?__twitter_impression=true

[Hibbyradge]

Latest polling for a Westminster election

Brexit 26%
Labour 22%
Conservative 17%
Libdem 16%
Green 11%
SNP 4%



https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/brexit-party-nigel-farage-lead-opinion-poll-conservatives-opinium?__twitter_impression=true

The polls, like the electorate, are all over the place at the moment, but if Labour confirms it's commitment to a second referendum, and to campaigning for remain, it would be well ahead.

But ...

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

A protest one policy party in power in the UK is almost unthinkable. Such is our level of conceipt, we would think that we are above this and it is only democracies like Italy and Greece that get caught up with reactionary groundswells.

[SHODAN]

Latest polling for a Westminster election

Brexit 26%
Labour 22%
Conservative 17%
Libdem 16%
Green 11%
SNP 4%



https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/brexit-party-nigel-farage-lead-opinion-poll-conservatives-opinium?__twitter_impression=true

Corbyn's inability to ****ing commit is now putting the country in even more serious danger. Commit to Remain or **** off.

[SHODAN]

Looks like we'd better get ready for one of these this year. Johnson will be PM and won't command the full support of his party.

[SHODAN]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/UK_opinion_polls.svg/1000px-UK_opinion_polls.svg.png

BP votes going directly to the Tories since Johnson became PM. Labour and LD figures static as Corbyn won't commit to Remain and "Liberal" Swinson prefers No Deal over letting Corbyn become PM for a couple weeks. Sigh.

[Colr]

Do you really think Corbyn would be PM for a couple of weeks?

[southfieldhibby]

Do you really think Corbyn would be PM for a couple of weeks?

No chance.

I had an MSP in my work the other day, I like him but he's a pretty divisive character and a target for alot of Nationalist social media venting- alot of the time justified imo. He took a phone call from the leader of his party when he was here and after he was pretty open about a GE on November 7th. Can't see it happening before 31st October.

[Pretty Boy]

This long game Corbyn is playing must be approaching the final whistle by now.

There's a guy in my work who still insists we are only days away from millions of people coming to their senses and carrying comrade Corbyn raised high on their shoulders to victory whilst singing a hearty chorus of The Red Flag.

It's never going to happen.

[Ozyhibby]

This long game Corbyn is playing must be approaching the final whistle by now.

There's a guy in my work who still insists we are only days away from millions of people coming to their senses and carrying comrade Corbyn raised high on their shoulders to victory whilst singing a hearty chorus of The Red Flag.

It's never going to happen.

There are solid remainers who would rather see a no deal brexit than a Corbyn govt.


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[Smartie]

There are solid remainers who would rather see a no deal brexit than a Corbyn govt.


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The thing about Corbyn that I like most is the way he strikes terror into people for no obvious reason.

I'm not mad on him, he's a weak leader and if given a free reign he's a good bit to the left of where I am, but the hyperbole he seems to generate is incredible.

I like that he strikes greatest terror into the most obnoxious conservatives.

We're in for a rough ride over the next years irrespective of what happens with Brexit or any general election. God help us if our crap railway network is nationalised or the better off have to pay a bit more tax.

I'm yet to hear of suggestions that people should have all their possessions stripped off them and be carted off to some sort of gulag.

[Colr]

No chance.

I had an MSP in my work the other day, I like him but he's a pretty divisive character and a target for alot of Nationalist social media venting- alot of the time justified imo. He took a phone call from the leader of his party when he was here and after he was pretty open about a GE on November 7th. Can't see it happening before 31st October.
I can believe that. Boris is going to crash us out call and election and rid himself of the DUP so he can stick a border in the Irish Sea then negotiate a trade deal.

[Colr]

This long game Corbyn is playing must be approaching the final whistle by now.

There's a guy in my work who still insists we are only days away from millions of people coming to their senses and carrying comrade Corbyn raised high on their shoulders to victory whilst singing a hearty chorus of The Red Flag.

It's never going to happen.

He lulling the Tories into a false sense of security, I suppose.

[Ozyhibby]

The thing about Corbyn that I like most is the way he strikes terror into people for no obvious reason.

I'm not mad on him, he's a weak leader and if given a free reign he's a good bit to the left of where I am, but the hyperbole he seems to generate is incredible.

I like that he strikes greatest terror into the most obnoxious conservatives.

We're in for a rough ride over the next years irrespective of what happens with Brexit or any general election. God help us if our crap railway network is nationalised or the better off have to pay a bit more tax.

I'm yet to hear of suggestions that people should have all their possessions stripped off them and be carted off to some sort of gulag.

Communism never starts like that.[emoji23]


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[JeMeSouviens]

I can believe that. Boris is going to crash us out call and election and rid himself of the DUP so he can stick a border in the Irish Sea then negotiate a trade deal.

:agree:

I think this is the plan. Although I think he'd actually be happier if parliament stops no deal so he can throw up his hands in horror and call an election to get a majority for no deal. Then he'll use that majority to do a deal along the lines you describe.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Communism never starts like that.[emoji23]


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to be fair, the bolsheviks were always pretty up front about things like that.

[mjhibby]

This long game Corbyn is playing must be approaching the final whistle by now.

There's a guy in my work who still insists we are only days away from millions of people coming to their senses and carrying comrade Corbyn raised high on their shoulders to victory whilst singing a hearty chorus of The Red Flag.

It's never going to happen.

I've met a few of them and they are so convinced we are all idiots and only brother Jeremy and momentum will sort our woes. I get that most of the under 25s are attracted to socialism but this will never lead to a labour win. Unless labour gets out of the clutches of momentum and gets an electable leader then every election they will build their hopes up only to be cruelly beaten again. It's the hope that kills you but that isn't a realistic hope. Not on any measure you care to look at.

[Hibbyradge]

I've met a few of them and they are so convinced we are all idiots and only brother Jeremy and momentum will sort our woes. I get that most of the under 25s are attracted to socialism but this will never lead to a labour win. Unless labour gets out of the clutches of momentum and gets an electable leader then every election they will build their hopes up only to be cruelly beaten again. It's the hope that kills you but that isn't a realistic hope. Not on any measure you care to look at.

And we've been saying that since he became leader.

The fact that he only lost to the most incompetent Tory leader I can remember, and didn't get anhialated, gave him some respite from some of the voices of disapproval, but that he still lags behind in the polls surely must tell all but the truest of believers, that he's never going to win an election.

It's easy to slag off people because they "would prefer a no deal Brexit to a Corbyn government", but if that's the case, the problem is Labour's.

It's all very well blaming the media for portraying Corbyn as a bogeyman, but everyone knew that would happen, and the new wing of the Labour Party chose to elect him anyway.

Unless Corbyn is replaced by someone more palatable to the electorate, we could be in for a decade of Boris Johnson government.

As I typed that, I started wondering why a supposedly serious political party needs to be told to find an electable leader.

[Colr]

And we've been saying that since he became leader.

The fact that he only lost to the most incompetent Tory leader I can remember, and didn't get anhialated, gave him some respite from some of the voices of disapproval, but that he still lags behind in the polls surely must tell all but the truest of believers, that he's never going to win an election.

It's easy to slag off people because they "would prefer a no deal Brexit to a Corbyn government", but if that's the case, the problem is Labour's.

It's all very well blaming the media for portraying Corbyn as a bogeyman, but everyone knew that would happen, and the new wing of the Labour Party chose to elect him anyway.

Unless Corbyn is replaced by someone more palatable to the electorate, we could be in for a decade of Boris Johnson government.

As I typed that, I started wondering why a supposedly serious political party needs to be told to find an electable leader.

Many think that because of his previous opposition to the EU , failure to campaign for remain and subsequent equivocation on Brexit, Corbyn has been complicit in bringing about the current state of affairs.
That is Corbyn as a front for Milne, McLuskey et al.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm not scared of Corbyn. I voted for Labour at the last GE.

I'm just realistic, he's not got the qualities required to win an election. He has been faced with a divided Tory party who have stumbled from disaster to disaster for almost exactly 4 years and how often has he been ahead in the polls? His failure to compromise, to offer concessions to unite his party and his failure to firstly campaign effectively for remain and secondly to take a strong position post referendum have shown his inability to lead.

[southfieldhibby]

I can believe that. Boris is going to crash us out call and election and rid himself of the DUP so he can stick a border in the Irish Sea then negotiate a trade deal.

This is the most obvious solution and the only folk who'd complain are the unionists in NI ( and Scotland!) and possibly the RoI, but cutting loose NI doesn't automatically have to mean a united Ireland I suppose.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I've met a few of them and they are so convinced we are all idiots and only brother Jeremy and momentum will sort our woes. I get that most of the under 25s are attracted to socialism but this will never lead to a labour win. Unless labour gets out of the clutches of momentum and gets an electable leader then every election they will build their hopes up only to be cruelly beaten again. It's the hope that kills you but that isn't a realistic hope. Not on any measure you care to look at.


If you are saying that we are only likely to get a centrist politician as the PM, how did we get Mrs Thatcher and the present incumbent? Mrs Thatcher was far from the most right wing member of her parliamentary party and her cabinet often contained some really dangerous people, but she swept to power almost unopposed.

[Ozyhibby]

If you are saying that we are only likely to get a centrist politician as the PM, how did we get Mrs Thatcher and the present incumbent? Mrs Thatcher was far from the most right wing member of her parliamentary party and her cabinet often contained some really dangerous people, but she swept to power almost unopposed.

When was the last left wing Labour PM?


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[NORTHERNHIBBY]

When was the last left wing Labour PM?


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Harold Wilson.

[Ozyhibby]

Harold Wilson.

So it’s pretty clear that the country is no longer keen on the idea of a left wing govt. And it would take some salesman to change that. Is Corbyn that salesman?


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[SHODAN]

If you are saying that we are only likely to get a centrist politician as the PM, how did we get Mrs Thatcher and the present incumbent? Mrs Thatcher was far from the most right wing member of her parliamentary party and her cabinet often contained some really dangerous people, but she swept to power almost unopposed.

Yup.

You only hear "unelectable" when discussing Labour politicians that dare to be ever-so-left-of-centre. Suggest that we renationalize any of the public services that were sold off under Thatcher and you're a communist overnight.

If you're a Tory you can be as far to the right as you want and the media don't give a ****.

[Hibbyradge]

Yup.

You only hear "unelectable" when discussing Labour politicians that dare to be ever-so-left-of-centre. Suggest that we renationalize any of the public services that were sold off under Thatcher and you're a communist overnight.

If you're a Tory you can be as far to the right as you want and the media don't give a ****.

You have just accurately described the country in which we live. It certainly applies to the UK. Whether Corbyn would be more "electable" in an independent Scotland is a moot point.

But the fact remains, the electorate won't stomach a Labour leader outside the centre left. Why Labour wants to continue proving that fact is beyond me.

[Ozyhibby]

You have just accurately described the country in which we live. It certainly applies to the UK. Whether Corbyn would be more "electable" in an independent Scotland is a moot point.

But the fact remains, the electorate won't stomach a Labour leader outside the centre left. Why Labour wants to continue proving that fact is beyond me.

I don’t think Scotland would be anymore receptive to a hard left leader than England.


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[CloudSquall]

As much as I think he is a careerist Thomas Tank Labour need someone like Chuka Umunna leading them if they want a majority, they need someone that soft/centre Tory voters would vote for and that isn't Corbyn.

Edit: I know he's Lib Dem now before anyone gets smart :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

As much as I think he is a careerist Thomas Tank Labour need someone like Chuka Umunna leading them if they want a majority, they need someone that soft/centre Tory voters would vote for and that isn't Corbyn.

Edit: I know he's Lib Dem now before anyone gets smart :greengrin

The funny thing is, the Labour Party is not without talented people. It’s just that the hard left have taken over.


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[Colr]

The funny thing is, the Labour Party is not without talented people. It’s just that the hard left have taken over.


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This is the case.

Most of the talent is on the back benches

[Colr]

Edit: I know he's Lib Dem now before anyone gets smart :greengrin

So are a lot of Labour supporters!!

[Smartie]

Strong rumours that the next general election is on its way..............

[Moulin Yarns]

Strong rumours that the next general election is on its way..............

Saw that if the parliament discussed no deal tomorrow General election called on Wednesday.

[CloudSquall]

Strong rumours that the next general election is on its way..............

Looks like it, opposition and rebel Tories look to have the numbers they need in the vote tomorrow, Boris would surely then call an election and campaign on a no deal Brexit / wait for EU to blink strategy.

[JeMeSouviens]

Looks like it, opposition and rebel Tories look to have the numbers they need in the vote tomorrow, Boris would surely then call an election and campaign on a no deal Brexit / wait for EU to blink strategy.

He can't just call an election. He needs a 2/3 majority because of the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

Suggestions from the opposition parties that they will only vote for one after a Brexit extension has been secured.

[Bristolhibby]

The funny thing is, the Labour Party is not without talented people. It’s just that the hard left have taken over.


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More Left. We aren’t talking Communism here. You have fallen into the trap. Guaranteeing no sell of of the NHS, renationalising the Railways and operators and getting the richest to chip in a wee bit more does not make you “far left”.

J

[Bristolhibby]

He can't just call an election. He needs a 2/3 majority because of the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

Suggestions from the opposition parties that they will only vote for one after a Brexit extension has been secured.

That would be brilliant, and I have to agree with Tony Blair. Let the ****er stew!

J

[Smartie]

More Left. We aren’t talking Communism here. You have fallen into the trap. Guaranteeing no sell of of the NHS, renationalising the Railways and operators and getting the richest to chip in a wee bit more does not make you “far left”.

J

That policy being discussed earlier regarding a policy enabling tenants to buy their property from their landlord is pretty "hard left" whichever way you look at it.

I agree that the ideas of Corbyn's already out in the open are pretty mild and tbh common sense.

There are far more ridiculous and frankly worrying ideas bubbling below the surface.