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Tom Hart RIP
20-05-2019, 07:27 AM
I was at the AGM on Sunday and the board are looking for suggestions to increase membership.

At the moment the club gets roughly £200k per year from HSL which is used to up the playing budget. The Foundation of Hearts pay roughly £1.4m to the club. I fully appreciate that the Hearts fans paid money to save their club but the vast majority have kept paying and this must give them a bigger budget than us. My concern is that we could end up falling behind them particularly when they have paid off the stand so I would like to share my idea.

I joined HSL after chatting to Amit at a fans event one day and he introduced me to Ally Mcleod, one of my all time heroes. I got such a buzz from meeting Ally, I went home and went through my finances. I decided to phone Sky and after suggesting that I wanted to downgrade or leave, they reassessed my monthly bill ans reduced it by £20 per month if I agreed a new yearly contract. I did this and joined HSL, paying £10 per month and am now a member. So in the end we both won.

Just a though but I suspect that many of us could save money by shopping around on insurance, mobile bills, electricity/gas companies etc, and we could give a percentage of what we save to HSL for Heck's budget.

I appreciate that for many others this won't be possible and I am not suggesting that anyone should join that can't afford it, but my suggestion would mean that Hibs are benefiting from some large company without costing the fans anything other than some time phoning around.

I think the HSL officials read this site so I wondered whether anyone else has ideas on how to increase the membership?

GGTTH

Greencore
20-05-2019, 07:39 AM
If hibs can stick all those stickers on a seat yesterday, why can't they get it done for hsl?

When I bought my season ticket last season I wasn't offered to sign up with HSL

Two separate company's I get that, but the HSL advertisement has been poor. Not had one thing through my door about them.

kennyh
20-05-2019, 07:58 AM
FF lower have the old bookies pod sitting empty. I am guessing its the same in other stands.

If HSL have some form of branding / banners etc they could be placed around / in the unused pods and all adults are handed a simple leaflet as they enter the turnstile outlining the benefits with a straight comparison of what current members contribute compared to the Hearts and Dons donations to their club hopefully hundreds more would sign up.

I appreciate there are not that many people involved in this logistically at the moment so possibly tackle an area at a time with leaflets and a visible presence at the turnstiles guiding people to the pods if they have any questions. East for the first 4 games of the season, then FF Upper etc etc

If they dont already could all Hospitality guests in the West stand be given a leaflet on their table and an application form so it could be monitored how effective that was ?

Tom Hart RIP
20-05-2019, 08:02 AM
They were saying that a presence at the stadium hasn’t worked as most people arrive around 2.45 and are keen to get to their seats rather than take time to chat or sign up.

green day
20-05-2019, 08:11 AM
If hibs can stick all those stickers on a seat yesterday, why can't they get it done for hsl?

When I bought my season ticket last season I wasn't offered to sign up with HSL

Two separate company's I get that, but the HSL advertisement has been poor. Not had one thing through my door about them.

I don't care if it's 2 separate companies. The only way HSL will increase is by Dempster coming out and endorsing it for Hibs, advertising it on the front page of the website, putting it in the programme, putting billboards up around ER.

HSL themselves can't do this, that much is obvious.

I am now getting a bit pissed off with HSL asking for answers which - as you point out - are very very clear.

HappyAsHellas
20-05-2019, 08:15 AM
I don't recall getting emails from HSL advertising what is happening. The club do so every year with season tickets and other promotions, so is it not possible for HSL to access the database and start contacting people? If you don't already subscribe you could be easily forgiven for not being aware of what they do.

Tom Hart RIP
20-05-2019, 08:38 AM
I think they said they have twice had access to the club database and will get access for a third time in the near future.
Leeann was there and seemed supportive although she did admit that it had possibly fallen down her list of priorities, particularly the 3rd team jersey which will have every Hsl members name on it. She now realised the popularity of the initiative.

DaveF
20-05-2019, 09:05 AM
I don't care if it's 2 separate companies. The only way HSL will increase is by Dempster coming out and endorsing it for Hibs, advertising it on the front page of the website, putting it in the programme, putting billboards up around ER.

HSL themselves can't do this, that much is obvious.

I am now getting a bit pissed off with HSL asking for answers which - as you point out - are very very clear.

Correct.

Although I don't agree with your last sentence as I think the guys that run HSL have to strike a balance between their relationship with the club and the fans they are trying to reach.

The club can and should be doing so much more. That is obvious and a real disappointment to me.

Jones28
20-05-2019, 09:05 AM
They need to increase their presence online, especially on social media and actually make people acutely aware that their donations go to the playing budget.

DaveF
20-05-2019, 09:06 AM
They need to increase their presence online, especially on social media and actually make people acutely aware that their donations go to the playing budget.

Yep. And hibs tweeting about it would help no end.

matty_f
20-05-2019, 09:26 AM
How about a member referral incentive?

If you're an existing member and get someone to sign up, then you go into a draw for a prize. The prizes that HSL have put out so far have been fantastic, and I would imagine that there would be some "money can't buy" type prize that could be arranged with a referral scheme.

One entry per new member signed up, ideally you'd want a prize that both the referrer and the referred can win.

Brummie_Hibs
20-05-2019, 09:29 AM
It just needs Paul Kane to publicly announce that it is not a Ponzi Scheme.

Since452
20-05-2019, 09:39 AM
I didn't even realise i was a paid up member until i logged in and saw a "download certificate" tab. No email telling me or anything. In all honesty i'd forgotten all about it. In saying that i've changed address since i started paying every month so not sure if something was sent to old address.

It's a great idea and hopefully gains more momentum.

Tom Hart RIP
20-05-2019, 10:07 AM
How about a member referral incentive?

If you're an existing member and get someone to sign up, then you go into a draw for a prize. The prizes that HSL have put out so far have been fantastic, and I would imagine that there would be some "money can't buy" type prize that could be arranged with a referral scheme.

One entry per new member signed up, ideally you'd want a prize that both the referrer and the referred can win.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Since452
20-05-2019, 11:11 AM
Think the names on the shirts idea will be a good money spinner. I'll be buying one and not bought a shirt in years.

WhileTheChief..
20-05-2019, 11:24 AM
Is it really about getting their message out there?

I’d be surprised if there are any Hibs fans alive that aren’t aware of HSL by now!

I’d suggest it’s much more likely that people just don’t want to subscribe to it rather than not knowing about it.

Tom Hart RIP
20-05-2019, 11:31 AM
Think the names on the shirts idea will be a good money spinner. I'll be buying one and not bought a shirt in years.

Hsl haven’t yet decided whether to sell the shirts or give them free to members according to the chairman yesterday. There was also a suggestion that everyone who is donating should get their name on the jersey even if they have not reached the membership threshold but as it’s alreadt been announced that it would be members only.

Personally I’ll be happy to pay for one.

They did say there would be an announcement giving people time to reach the £225 in time to get their name in it.

Golden Bear
20-05-2019, 11:38 AM
Is it really about getting their message out there?

I’d be surprised if there are any Hibs fans alive that aren’t aware of HSL by now!

I’d suggest it’s much more likely that people just don’t want to subscribe to it rather than not knowing about it.

:agree:

Personal choice for me.

I'd rather go down the ABERDNA route than the share issue one. I'm a stubborn auld git I know.

:greengrin

matty_f
20-05-2019, 11:40 AM
Is it really about getting their message out there?

I’d be surprised if there are any Hibs fans alive that aren’t aware of HSL by now!

I’d suggest it’s much more likely that people just don’t want to subscribe to it rather than not knowing about it.

There's a degree of truth in what you suggest, but I suspect that there is still a large part of the Hibs supporting population that fall into these categories:

- Don't know anything about HSL and are totally unaware
- Know about HSL but don't know why they are there and what they do
- Know about HSL and have an understanding of them that is not accurate (i.e. ponzi scheme)
-Know about HSL and don't want to participate
- like HSL but can't afford to donate

HSL's activities can definitely help with the first three.

A wider bit of work to overcome the objections to HSL would help with the second last group but it needs those people to engage and tell HSL why they don't agree.

From my own point of view, there are 2 main benefits to HSL, which are:

- Protects the club from another Mercer
- gives the manager money to compete and mitigates some of the financial advantage that FoH gives Hearts.

I think when you understand what happens with the money, the difference it makes to the club AND the consequences of NOT having the contributions, it's a no-brainer.

IMHO, we all want the best for the club, and a healthy, competitive Hibernian relies on us as a support to fund it.

STF bailed the club out years ago, he set out the terms at that point that he wanted the club to be self-sufficient.

Without FoH, we'd be competitive financially with Hearts, but the reality is that their fans are still donating significant sums to their club.

I think that if we as a support genuinely wanted to put distance between us and Hearts, we know what to do.

Our infrastructure and set up has been the thing that has given us the advantage over them in the last few years - we've recruited good staff across the club and that's paid dividends.

At some point, Hearts will catch up with us in that regard and then their financial clout will give them an advantage.

We can act now and negate that advantage.

3pm
20-05-2019, 11:45 AM
How about a member referral incentive?

If you're an existing member and get someone to sign up, then you go into a draw for a prize. The prizes that HSL have put out so far have been fantastic, and I would imagine that there would be some "money can't buy" type prize that could be arranged with a referral scheme.

One entry per new member signed up, ideally you'd want a prize that both the referrer and the referred can win.

There is something being worked on. A referral league table basically.

Detail still being worked through.

3pm
20-05-2019, 12:00 PM
Is it really about getting their message out there?

I’d be surprised if there are any Hibs fans alive that aren’t aware of HSL by now!

I’d suggest it’s much more likely that people just don’t want to subscribe to it rather than not knowing about it.

It's a personal choice for everyone.

They said yesterday that our 'natural competitors' are Aberdeen and Hearts. Both of those teams receive support from their fans which should, in theory, make a difference. If Hearts fans maintain their current level of donation, then they will have an additional £1.4m coming into their club each season (whether that all goes to Levein or not is another matter) so they should get stronger.

Leeann said she'd back our infrastructure (Good manager, assistant, recruitment team etc) to negate some of the additional funding Aberdeen / Hearts receive but there is a limit to what Hecky / Robbie etc can do.

I would never tell anyone how to spend their cash but I think we need to be aware that if we don't collectively pull together then it will be far harder to compete nearer the top and it reduces the chances of another day like the one we experienced a few years ago.

Just quoting you WTC, this isn't aimed at you...

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 12:03 PM
:agree:

Personal choice for me.

I'd rather go down the ABERDNA route than the share issue one. I'm a stubborn auld git I know.

:greengrin
Golden Bear

We do intend to contribute to this thread, if it helps, but for now we hope you don't mind us dealing with this particular point first.

Can we first of all point out that we fully respect everyone's right to have their own opinion on things and we will never lose sight of that. With that in mind, and bearing in mind that I am an individual HSL Director and may be biased ( let others decide), can we ask why you think the ABERDNA route is better ? I think our proposition is much better but clearly it helps us understand why our own supporters thinks another scheme is so attractive ?


HSL

DaveF
20-05-2019, 12:06 PM
:agree:

Personal choice for me.

I'd rather go down the ABERDNA route than the share issue one. I'm a stubborn auld git I know.

:greengrin

Only half of the donation goes the the club I believe. The other half on admin, prizes etc. Not what Im after at all

hibbydad
20-05-2019, 12:10 PM
There's a degree of truth in what you suggest, but I suspect that there is still a large part of the Hibs supporting population that fall into these categories:

- Don't know anything about HSL and are totally unaware
- Know about HSL but don't know why they are there and what they do
- Know about HSL and have an understanding of them that is not accurate (i.e. ponzi scheme)
-Know about HSL and don't want to participate
- like HSL but can't afford to donate

HSL's activities can definitely help with the first three.

A wider bit of work to overcome the objections to HSL would help with the second last group but it needs those people to engage and tell HSL why they don't agree.

From my own point of view, there are 2 main benefits to HSL, which are:

- Protects the club from another Mercer
- gives the manager money to compete and mitigates some of the financial advantage that FoH gives Hearts.

I think when you understand what happens with the money, the difference it makes to the club AND the consequences of NOT having the contributions, it's a no-brainer.

IMHO, we all want the best for the club, and a healthy, competitive Hibernian relies on us as a support to fund it.

STF bailed the club out years ago, he set out the terms at that point that he wanted the club to be self-sufficient.

Without FoH, we'd be competitive financially with Hearts, but the reality is that their fans are still donating significant sums to their club.

I think that if we as a support genuinely wanted to put distance between us and Hearts, we know what to do.

Our infrastructure and set up has been the thing that has given us the advantage over them in the last few years - we've recruited good staff across the club and that's paid dividends.

At some point, Hearts will catch up with us in that regard and then their financial clout will give them an advantage.

We can act now and negate that advantage.
Excellent post Matty puts eveything into perspective. Comeon guys letsgive Paul the money to spend in the transfer window

Speedway
20-05-2019, 12:13 PM
I was at the AGM on Sunday and the board are looking for suggestions to increase membership.

At the moment the club gets roughly £200k per year from HSL which is used to up the playing budget. The Foundation of Hearts pay roughly £1.4m to the club. I fully appreciate that the Hearts fans paid money to save their club but the vast majority have kept paying and this must give them a bigger budget than us. My concern is that we could end up falling behind them particularly when they have paid off the stand so I would like to share my idea.

I joined HSL after chatting to Amit at a fans event one day and he introduced me to Ally Mcleod, one of my all time heroes. I got such a buzz from meeting Ally, I went home and went through my finances. I decided to phone Sky and after suggesting that I wanted to downgrade or leave, they reassessed my monthly bill ans reduced it by £20 per month if I agreed a new yearly contract. I did this and joined HSL, paying £10 per month and am now a member. So in the end we both won.

Just a though but I suspect that many of us could save money by shopping around on insurance, mobile bills, electricity/gas companies etc, and we could give a percentage of what we save to HSL for Heck's budget.

I appreciate that for many others this won't be possible and I am not suggesting that anyone should join that can't afford it, but my suggestion would mean that Hibs are benefiting from some large company without costing the fans anything other than some time phoning around.

I think the HSL officials read this site so I wondered whether anyone else has ideas on how to increase the membership?

GGTTH

Perhaps ask Sky to sponsor HSL given how much time it will save their operatives from negotiating subscriptions.

Golden Bear
20-05-2019, 12:32 PM
Golden Bear

We do intend to contribute to this thread, if it helps, but for now we hope you don't mind us dealing with this particular point first.

Can we first of all point out that we fully respect everyone's right to have their own opinion on things and we will never lose sight of that. With that in mind, and bearing in mind that I am an individual HSL Director and may be biased ( let others decide), can we ask why you think the ABERDNA route is better ? I think our proposition is much better but clearly it helps us understand why our own supporters thinks another scheme is so attractive ?


HSL

I remember looking at the Aberdeen scheme when it was first launched and the fact that it wasn't linked to share issue was a plus for me. I already have a token private shareholding in Hibs (dates back to the Wallace Mercer takeover bid) but my lifelong interest in Hibs is totally football related and i have no interest in promoting the concept of fan ownership but I do appreciate that others are attracted by such a proposition.

It's all about costing I guess, as you rightly point out not 100% of the ABERDNA scheme will go to the Club but from a supporters viewpoint it offers other attractions - eg discounts on season tickets, club merchandise ,prize draws etc. I even found a link:-

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna-homepage/benefits/

DaveF
20-05-2019, 12:40 PM
I remember looking at the Aberdeen scheme when it was first launched and the fact that it wasn't linked to share issue was a plus for me. I already have a token private shareholding in Hibs (dates back to the Wallace Mercer takeover bid) but my lifelong interest in Hibs is totally football related and i have no interest in promoting the concept of fan ownership but I do appreciate that others are attracted by such a proposition.

It's all about costing I guess, as you rightly point out not 100% of the ABERDNA scheme will go to the Club but from a supporters viewpoint it offers other attractions - eg discounts on season tickets, club merchandise ,prize draws etc. I even found a link:-

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna-homepage/benefits/

I dot see HSL as being attractive in terms of fan ownership. It isn't something Im overly warm on but I do want to help the club prosper and if that means donating 10 quid per month and HSL is that vehicle then I'll do it.

Maybe hibs should launch a membership scheme with the the bits and bobs that come with it. I presume you would sign up for that?

Those who dont fancy HSL could join that instead.

Monts
20-05-2019, 12:47 PM
There's a degree of truth in what you suggest, but I suspect that there is still a large part of the Hibs supporting population that fall into these categories:

- Don't know anything about HSL and are totally unaware
- Know about HSL but don't know why they are there and what they do
- Know about HSL and have an understanding of them that is not accurate (i.e. ponzi scheme)
-Know about HSL and don't want to participate
- like HSL but can't afford to donate

HSL's activities can definitely help with the first three.

A wider bit of work to overcome the objections to HSL would help with the second last group but it needs those people to engage and tell HSL why they don't agree.

From my own point of view, there are 2 main benefits to HSL, which are:

- Protects the club from another Mercer
- gives the manager money to compete and mitigates some of the financial advantage that FoH gives Hearts.

I think when you understand what happens with the money, the difference it makes to the club AND the consequences of NOT having the contributions, it's a no-brainer.

IMHO, we all want the best for the club, and a healthy, competitive Hibernian relies on us as a support to fund it.

STF bailed the club out years ago, he set out the terms at that point that he wanted the club to be self-sufficient.

Without FoH, we'd be competitive financially with Hearts, but the reality is that their fans are still donating significant sums to their club.

I think that if we as a support genuinely wanted to put distance between us and Hearts, we know what to do.

Our infrastructure and set up has been the thing that has given us the advantage over them in the last few years - we've recruited good staff across the club and that's paid dividends.

At some point, Hearts will catch up with us in that regard and then their financial clout will give them an advantage.

We can act now and negate that advantage.

Good post Matty, but I think you missed one main group of fans; know a bit about HSL but don't see what the benefit to them is.

I don't think it helps that the marketing and branding around HSL feels a bit corporate and boring. There's not much of a draw to make people go and find out more.

DaveF
20-05-2019, 01:13 PM
Good post Matty, but I think you missed one main group of fans; know a bit about HSL but don't see what the benefit to them is.

I don't think it helps that the marketing and branding around HSL feels a bit corporate and boring. There's not much of a draw to make people go and find out more.

What makes it appealing bernz?

CapitalGreen
20-05-2019, 01:14 PM
Posted this on the AGM thread by mistake instead of here, but these would have been my suggestions.

- Change the Name, Hibernian Supporters Limited sounds corporate, like a holding company as opposed to the grass roots, fan movement image you are trying to project. A Rangers or Hearts fan promoting their scheme can refer to being part of "Club 1872" or "the Foundation", telling someone you are a member of Hibernian Supporters Limited doesn't really have that same feel IMO despite the groups having generally the same purpose.

- In regards to the AGM, again people aren't signing up to attend corporate events and vote to agree on accounts etc. Stuff like this should be coupled with other more interesting events and promoted as member events.

- Something similar to the plot scheme and ceremonies FoH have. Pledgers are awarded something tangible for their donations which doesn't really cost the club anything. I'm afraid a certificate which you are expected to print at home yourself won't really cut it for most people you are looking to donate £225+.

- The twitter and other social media marketing could still be improved. I understand it is done on a voluntary basis but I am sure there people within the fan base who can assist with this to improve content and reach more people.

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 01:37 PM
I remember looking at the Aberdeen scheme when it was first launched and the fact that it wasn't linked to share issue was a plus for me. I already have a token private shareholding in Hibs (dates back to the Wallace Mercer takeover bid) but my lifelong interest in Hibs is totally football related and i have no interest in promoting the concept of fan ownership but I do appreciate that others are attracted by such a proposition.

It's all about costing I guess, as you rightly point out not 100% of the ABERDNA scheme will go to the Club but from a supporters viewpoint it offers other attractions - eg discounts on season tickets, club merchandise ,prize draws etc. I even found a link:-

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna-homepage/benefits/

Golden Bear

We don't think you are a "stubborn auld git " but do want to engage with you on these points as we feel it may be of help to you and if not certainly to others who may be holding back for similar reasons. We'll see if you are stubborn or perhaps just would welcome more information.

First of all Shares. We see that you have some shares at the moment so we assume that you have some interest in shares, albeit as you say only token. Our Members are the same. Nearly all of them just want to help their Club and so they donate to HSL. Please note that it was not HSL who proposed the issuing of new shares. This was the decision of the Club Board and presumably with the full support of the existing principal shareholder. These shares therefore will be bought and the principal shareholder % will reduce to 49. There is nothing you can do about that now, other than have an influence in where those shares go. You will therefore not be "promoting the concept of fan ownership.

HSL

ps If you really don't have any interest in your shares we would welcome them.

Power
20-05-2019, 01:42 PM
Some good suggestions in here. I can pick some up.

Since452
20-05-2019, 01:44 PM
I'm similar to a lot of fans that aren't particularly bothered about fan ownership and shares etc. If HSL was purely advertised as a way to increase the player budget i think it would attract a lot more people.

hibbydad
20-05-2019, 01:50 PM
Since 452 it has been made very clear the money is going to help improve the playing squad how often does it need to be said for people to understand that

Monts
20-05-2019, 02:11 PM
What makes it appealing bernz?

Not a lot at the moment, I would say.

I think it attracts
- those who want to move to fan ownership,
- those that contribute through a sense of duty
- that's about it

DaveF
20-05-2019, 02:29 PM
Since 452 it has been made very clear the money is going to help improve the playing squad how often does it need to be said for people to understand that

It has but I don't think there is any doubt that the fan ownership thing puts some people off.

I've no idea of its too late to change the mode of operation or even if there are implications in doing so - I suspect the answer to both would be Yes though.

To coin a crap phrase, we are where are. We can back it or continue to find reasons not to.

I've no idea if we will suffer on the field as a result of the yams and dons extra dough. I just want to help my club with that little bit extra.

Hopefully a few thousand others can hop on board too.

CentreLine
20-05-2019, 02:41 PM
Only half of the donation goes the the club I believe. The other half on admin, prizes etc. Not what Im after at all

Good point DaveF bests clarify that this refers to Aberdeen’s version of HSL whereas every penny of HSL money goes to the playing budget at Hibs with the exception of a very few quid for postage etc. All very clear in the accounts published yesterday. If anyone was still in any doubt that is.

The Baldmans Comb
20-05-2019, 02:55 PM
To many mixed messages, terrible administration, very poor communication and surprisingly what seems less than enthusiastic support from the club still keeps me from making any sort of commitment.

In the meantime Hibs TV, Sponsorship and hospitality is my chosen non match day way of making excess contributions.

Sources whereby I at least get something in return rather than what seems a confused mess.

At the highest level do a complete relaunch and start again.

WhileTheChief..
20-05-2019, 02:59 PM
Hopefully a few thousand others can hop on board too.

Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

BSEJVT
20-05-2019, 03:15 PM
Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

For the triumph of evil, all its takes is for good men to do nothing!

People can be persuaded or feel differently about things as time passes.

Independence and Brexit prove this as the support / lack of for both has waxed and waned over the years and these are fundamental life choices with deeply entrenched political views that have changed.

If you are of the Homer Simpson mindset that if something is difficult to do then its probably not worth doing then that is your prerogative, but it doesn't have to be that way.

There are plenty of Hibs supporters still around that remember our winning the league regularly in the 50's, its a huge ask but maybe we need to find different ways of funding to enable us to do so again. This could be one.

Scotland cannot remain a sectarian backwater forever, when it isn't we need to be there ready to pick up the baton when Rantic's support disappears, it may not be in my lifetime, but it will happen, its not so long ago that they were playing to crowds smaller than our current crowds

Closer to the current timeline there are many more who lived through Hands off Hibs, should they have just given up as it looked difficult at the outset? It's a bloody good job they didn't.

Every journey starts with a first step, every £ raised improves us, why on earth would folk stop trying to drum up support for HSL?

Iggy Pope
20-05-2019, 03:21 PM
Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

2500 mugs in amongst the other 10,500 disinterested do you think? That would be a shabby state of affairs.

DaveF
20-05-2019, 03:22 PM
Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

There have been numerous obstacles during that time with plenty lies thrown around which helped not one bit. Plus a lack of, for whatever reason, engagement by the club also didn't help.

I wasn't aware you spoke for the majority but while your views are clear, I would hope others were not so closed.

DaveF
20-05-2019, 03:27 PM
To many mixed messages, terrible administration, very poor communication and surprisingly what seems less than enthusiastic support from the club still keeps me from making any sort of commitment.

In the meantime Hibs TV, Sponsorship and hospitality is my chosen non match day way of making excess contributions.

Sources whereby I at least get something in return rather than what seems a confused mess.

At the highest level do a complete relaunch and start again.

Thats fair enough comment I think and I've said as much myself. The message needs to be clear.

Though the small band that run it are doing so voluntarily so I'd cut them some slack. Or volunteer advice and time :-)

hhibs
20-05-2019, 03:31 PM
I don't care if it's 2 separate companies. The only way HSL will increase is by Dempster coming out and endorsing it for Hibs, advertising it on the front page of the website, putting it in the programme, putting billboards up around ER.

HSL themselves can't do this, that much is obvious.

I am now getting a bit pissed off with HSL asking for answers which - as you point out - are very very clear.


Yep !

Gerard
20-05-2019, 03:35 PM
Thats fair enough comment I think and I've said as much myself. The message needs to be clear.

Though the small band that run it are doing so voluntarily so I'd cut them some slack. Or volunteer advice and time :-)

HSL has made and continues to make an important contribution for the head coach to sign good players. HSL will soon own 20 % of the shares in our club and is in my opinion the way forward for Hibs fans to own an important stake in our club.
If people want to change the way HSL is run they can become full members and seek election to the HSL board.

hhibs
20-05-2019, 03:38 PM
Golden Bear

We do intend to contribute to this thread, if it helps, but for now we hope you don't mind us dealing with this particular point first.

Can we first of all point out that we fully respect everyone's right to have their own opinion on things and we will never lose sight of that. With that in mind, and bearing in mind that I am an individual HSL Director and may be biased ( let others decide), can we ask why you think the ABERDNA route is better ? I think our proposition is much better but clearly it helps us understand why our own supporters thinks another scheme is so attractive ?


HSL

It clearly works thats why.

Perhaps we need both,realise you might no,t but for the good of the club we need something disntict from the HSL share initiative.I am pretty sure there is room for both and would attract a different supporter from those on HSL without necessarily *******ising the original HSL pitch

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 04:39 PM
Posted this on the AGM thread by mistake instead of here, but these would have been my suggestions.

- Change the Name, Hibernian Supporters Limited sounds corporate, like a holding company as opposed to the grass roots, fan movement image you are trying to project. A Rangers or Hearts fan promoting their scheme can refer to being part of "Club 1872" or "the Foundation", telling someone you are a member of Hibernian Supporters Limited doesn't really have that same feel IMO despite the groups having generally the same purpose.

- In regards to the AGM, again people aren't signing up to attend corporate events and vote to agree on accounts etc. Stuff like this should be coupled with other more interesting events and promoted as member events.

- Something similar to the plot scheme and ceremonies FoH have. Pledgers are awarded something tangible for their donations which doesn't really cost the club anything. I'm afraid a certificate which you are expected to print at home yourself won't really cut it for most people you are looking to donate £225+.

- The twitter and other social media marketing could still be improved. I understand it is done on a voluntary basis but I am sure there people within the fan base who can assist with this to improve content and reach more people.

Thank you for taking an interest in us. Allow us to give feedback on your comments :

- Your point about our name is well made and there isn't anyone here in disagreement. None of the Directors are precious about our existing name. Please note that "Club 1872" are in fact Club 1872 Ltd but they choose not to refer to the Ltd. We have never intended to use the Ltd and we certainly agree that HSL doesn't bring any additional clarity. We are in fact Hibernian 1875 Supporters. The point I am making is that we can easily choose to refer to ourselves as something else without the need to change our corporate structure. If we want to be Forever Green, Evergreen, Club 1875, Hibs 1875 or whatever, we can do it. There will be some costs to do this but none of them prohibitive. It's just a question of priorities.
- We had offered non Members the opportunity to attend an informal event in a nice convenient location with a cup of tea thrown in. If we need to do more social events, we can do.
- Given the level of interest shown in the Founders Board and the Strip it is clear that many supporters are motivated by "goodies". That being the case we are happy to continue down that route.
- Our Social Media activities are something else. We receive many compliments about it and we hear supporters telling us that they like the fact that it is distinctive from the Club. Having said this, if as you say we have real social media experts out there please get in touch at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk.


Hope this helps.


HSL

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 04:46 PM
I don't recall getting emails from HSL advertising what is happening. The club do so every year with season tickets and other promotions, so is it not possible for HSL to access the database and start contacting people? If you don't already subscribe you could be easily forgiven for not being aware of what they do.

HappyAsHellas

The Club have very kindly twice forwarded emails from us to the Club database and indeed have agreed to do more. We don't know why you may not have received these but we are not in a position to investigate that.


HSL

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 04:48 PM
FF lower have the old bookies pod sitting empty. I am guessing its the same in other stands.

If HSL have some form of branding / banners etc they could be placed around / in the unused pods and all adults are handed a simple leaflet as they enter the turnstile outlining the benefits with a straight comparison of what current members contribute compared to the Hearts and Dons donations to their club hopefully hundreds more would sign up.

I appreciate there are not that many people involved in this logistically at the moment so possibly tackle an area at a time with leaflets and a visible presence at the turnstiles guiding people to the pods if they have any questions. East for the first 4 games of the season, then FF Upper etc etc

If they dont already could all Hospitality guests in the West stand be given a leaflet on their table and an application form so it could be monitored how effective that was ?

kennyh

We have already approached the Club to do all of this and are hoping for a positive response.


HSL

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 04:50 PM
I'm similar to a lot of fans that aren't particularly bothered about fan ownership and shares etc. If HSL was purely advertised as a way to increase the player budget i think it would attract a lot more people.

Since452

We can assure you that if you want to donate to us all of your money will go to increase the Player Budget. Jump aboard ?

https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/



HSL

matty_f
20-05-2019, 04:50 PM
I'm interested to know what people don't like about the idea of fan ownership?

WhileTheChief..
20-05-2019, 05:04 PM
There have been numerous obstacles during that time with plenty lies thrown around which helped not one bit. Plus a lack of, for whatever reason, engagement by the club also didn't help.

I wasn't aware you spoke for the majority but while your views are clear, I would hope others were not so closed.

I don’t speak for anyone but myself.

The facts are staring you in the face though.

I’m simply one of the 10,000 who haven’t signed up, I’m just not afraid to admit it on here!

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 05:09 PM
Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.

Thank you for your comments and we do of course respect your right of opinion. We do hope that in turn that you will respect our right to take a more positive view on things and in particular commend your fellow supporters for their generous efforts in helping our Team. When we first started against very difficult circumstances and we only attracted 100 Members we could not imagine getting to 200. Same when we reached 400 and thought 800 was just wishful thinking. We didn't give up then and indeed we can't imagine that our Members would want to give up now.

We don't know if you were at our AGM yesterday but the news was fantastic.

- HSL now own almost 19% of the Club
- We are now only 6.1% away from our principal target of 25.1%
- We have donated almost £800,000 to the playing budget
- Leeann confirmed once again the very real difference that this money has made and the players that she was able to bring in that she would not have been able to do otherwise
- We are on an upward trajectory , with increased Membership and more and more money going to our Manager
- A very clear message about our "Founding Members" initiative. Many, many more supporters want to be part of this.

Join now if you want to be part of history .

https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate


HSL

WhileTheChief..
20-05-2019, 05:09 PM
I'm interested to know what people don't like about the idea of fan ownership?

I’ve mentioned previously why I’m against it but won’t repeat why on here as some folk seem to think it’s an attempt by me to hinder HSL.

These threads are like an echo chamber.

Unless you’re 100% behind the idea folk jump on you as if you’re not a fan at all.

If those of you who do subscribe can’t convince a friend or family member to join how do you expect to convince a stranger on the internet?!!

That’s not having a dig by the way, Whatever reason your mates give you is the answer you’re looking for.

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 05:23 PM
To many mixed messages, terrible administration, very poor communication and surprisingly what seems less than enthusiastic support from the club still keeps me from making any sort of commitment.

In the meantime Hibs TV, Sponsorship and hospitality is my chosen non match day way of making excess contributions.

Sources whereby I at least get something in return rather than what seems a confused mess.

At the highest level do a complete relaunch and start again.

The Baldmans Comb

Thank you for your observations and of course we have full respect for your position. We do however have a duty to our Members and others thinking about taking Membership to clarify a couple of points

We don't have any administrative backlogs or indeed communication issues at present. We have in the past 4 years had two minor issues with emails but these have been dealt with. We are not the only Organisation to have some kind of minor IT issues so if you are out there thinking about joining please do not be put off by these comments. It's very easy to log on to our web site and the sign up process is easy and will take less than two minutes.

You are right in as much as you are not our target audience. Our current Members are looking to donate and are not looking for something in return other than just helping to put better Players on the park.

Having said that we are looking to offer more and more simple "thank you gestures" which don't cost the Club money.


HSL

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 05:30 PM
I’ve mentioned previously why I’m against it but won’t repeat why on here as some folk seem to think it’s an attempt by me to hinder HSL.

These threads are like an echo chamber.

Unless you’re 100% behind the idea folk jump on you as if you’re not a fan at all.

If those of you who do subscribe can’t convince a friend or family member to join how do you expect to convince a stranger on the internet?!!

That’s not having a dig by the way, Whatever reason your mates give you is the answer you’re looking for.

While The Chief

Rest assured whether you choose to join or not we will never consider you less of a fan should you choose a different path or indeed simply can't manage to join. We are interested in your views and don't for one minute think you are anti HSL. What we have found is that the very task of teasing out objections on threads like this can highlight misunderstandings and misconceptions. On most such threads, as things are clarified, we end up with more Members, not less. So please do let us know why you have not joined, your feedback will help us and therefore help your Team ?


HSL

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 05:42 PM
It clearly works thats why.

Perhaps we need both,realise you might no,t but for the good of the club we need something disntict from the HSL share initiative.I am pretty sure there is room for both and would attract a different supporter from those on HSL without necessarily *******ising the original HSL pitch

hhibs

With all due respect we still don't have an answer to the question. We are not saying we disagree with you or your colleague, we are simply trying to get feedback and find out what is attractive about other schemes. If we offer a free Season Ticket to everyone who joins within the next week we will no doubt double our Membership. Will that have worked ? What do we mean by worked ?

We are pretty much in a position where we can do whatever we like but surely we want to make sure that it makes sense and achieves our objectives. A Membership of 6000 which gives away half it's income is less productive than a Membership of 3000 keeping all of it's income. One also wants to make sure that you are not having a value destroying impact on your underlying cause.


HSL

Hibbyradge
20-05-2019, 05:42 PM
I've not thought this through properly yet, so my thoughts won't be worded well, but I think there needs to be a better sense of identity and of belonging to something important and desirable.

Being a member of the Hibernian Society or whatever it's eventually called, needs to be something people can be openly proud of and something that people aspire to.

Initiatives as simple as a lapel badge for all members would become a badge of honour and increase take up.

High profile HSL only events like POYT evenings or similar would create interest.

I remember I always wanted to be a member of the Fifty Club and I never even knew what it was. I still don't! :greengrin

Make HSL membership fashionable. Telling folk they have a duty to support it is nowhere near enough.

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 05:53 PM
I've not thought this through properly yet, so my thoughts won't be worded well, but I think there needs to be a better sense of identity and of belonging to something important and desirable.

Being a member of the Hibernian Society or whatever it's eventually called, needs to be something people can be openly proud of and something that people aspire to.

Initiatives as simple as a lapel badge for all members would become a badge of honour and increase take up.

High profile HSL only events like POYT evenings or similar would create interest.

I remember I always wanted to be a member of the Fifty Club and I never even knew what it was. I still don't! :greengrin

Make HSL membership fashionable. Telling folk they have a duty to support it is nowhere near enough.

Hibbyradge

Don't worry at all about thinking out loud, we are simply grateful to you for taking an interest.

We agree with your sentiment that simply relying on a sense of duty is not enough. We have never knowingly attempted to take that position but if that is how you have perceived it please accept our apology. We too want to make it fashionable and desirable and this thread will help us to do that.

We don't have have a lapel badge but we do have a 'Hibernian 1875 Supporters" scarf. Any Member who would like one simply donate £10 and drop us an email to info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk

How about that for a quick response ?


HSL

Itsnoteasy
20-05-2019, 06:09 PM
Is it really about getting their message out there?

I’d be surprised if there are any Hibs fans alive that aren’t aware of HSL by now!

I’d suggest it’s much more likely that people just don’t want to subscribe to it rather than not knowing about it.

Your on the money.
People keep banging on about the money FOH pump into the club, it's no helping them.

Third best team in Scotland with an average home attendance of about 7 - 8K haven't spent a penny on transfers fees & they wont pay the highest wages.

It's up to Hibs to attract better financial sponsorships instead of asking the working man to dig deeper into his pocket.

Hibbyradge
20-05-2019, 06:11 PM
Hibbyradge

Don't worry at all about thinking out loud, we are simply grateful to you for taking an interest.

We agree with your sentiment that simply relying on a sense of duty is not enough. We have never knowingly attempted to take that position but if that is how you have perceived it please accept our apology. We too want to make it fashionable and desirable and this thread will help us to do that.

We don't have have a lapel badge but we do have a 'Hibernian 1875 Supporters" scarf. Any Member who would like one simply donate £10 and drop us an email to info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk

How about that for a quick response ?


HSL

Mighty quick!

Now collect suggestions for a new name, run a supporter base wide poll, and get it changed.

Good luck. 👍

matty_f
20-05-2019, 06:13 PM
Your on the money.
People keep banging on about the money FOH pump into the club, it's no helping them.

Third best team in Scotland with an average home attendance of about 7 - 8K haven't spent a penny on transfers fees & they wont pay the highest wages.

It's up to Hibs to attract better financial sponsorships instead of asking the working man to dig deeper into his pocket.

I want both, to be honest - I expect the board to be working on improving commercial income but realistically there's only so much that a club or size, in this country, can bring in.

There's also the benefit of safeguarding the club, which commercial revenue itself doesn't do.

HSL have, from what I've seen, consistently given the message that they only want what people can afford, so if the working man can't afford to contribute more then they're seemingly fine with that.

Itsnoteasy
20-05-2019, 06:19 PM
I want both, to be honest - I expect the board to be working on improving commercial income but realistically there's only so much that a club or size, in this country, can bring in.

There's also the benefit of safeguarding the club, which commercial revenue itself doesn't do.

HSL have, from what I've seen, consistently given the message that they only want what people can afford, so if the working man can't afford to contribute more then they're seemingly fine with that.


So how do we explain how Kilmarnock have performed for the last 2 seasons. Minimum 10K per home game average less fans than us. Less attractive to sponsors & spent hee haw on players. It's about recruitment & we are sadly lacking in that department.

Chorley Hibee
20-05-2019, 06:26 PM
Your on the money.
People keep banging on about the money FOH pump into the club, it's no helping them.

Third best team in Scotland with an average home attendance of about 7 - 8K haven't spent a penny on transfers fees & they wont pay the highest wages.

It's up to Hibs to attract better financial sponsorships instead of asking the working man to dig deeper into his pocket.

I contribute to HSL, but I agree wholeheartedly with you on this.

Aberdeen raise way more through their commercial side etc than we currently do, and I'd like us to looking at why that is rather than repeatedly looking for the fans to make up the shortfall.

matty_f
20-05-2019, 06:39 PM
So how do we explain how Kilmarnock have performed for the last 2 seasons. Minimum 10K per home game average less fans than us. Less attractive to sponsors & spent hee haw on players. It's about recruitment & we are sadly lacking in that department.

It's not an exact science, and I'll need to hold my hands up and say I'm ignorant as to how Kilmarnock funded their team and how much they spent.

My best guess is that they over achieved, their manager did a better job than or manager did, or they managed to avoid the unfathomably large number of significant injuries that we sustained this season.

I think we finished above them last season, but happy to stand corrected on that one.

Money itself doesn't guarantee anything, but it does give a massive advantage to the teams who can afford to spend more.

green day
20-05-2019, 06:46 PM
So how do we explain how Kilmarnock have performed for the last 2 seasons. Minimum 10K per home game average less fans than us. Less attractive to sponsors & spent hee haw on players. It's about recruitment & we are sadly lacking in that department.

Its a bit of a one off is the simple explanation.

Billie Bowie and the other directors continue to pump a load of their own cash in to that club - as you say they will never do it on gates alone - but that cant continue forever, so its a bit of an ongoing "experiment".

Killie have had loads of plaudits over the last 18 months but as Clarke himself said, they have won the square root of **** all, despite him inheriting some extremely good players and having some very good results in that period.

Its been done to death in other threads, but generally the more you spend the more successful you are in football.

Good luck to Killie but this is about Hibs and doing something which will give us an alternative income stream and the ability to compete with Aberdeen and Hearts (who, despite being a bit of a car crash, only finished 3 points behind us).

Billy Whizz
20-05-2019, 06:47 PM
Its a bit of a one off is the simple explanation.

Billie Bowie and the other directors continue to pump a load of their own cash in to that club - as you say they will never do it on gates alone - but that cant continue forever, so its a bit of an ongoing "experiment".

Killie have had loads of plaudits over the last 18 months but as Clarke himself said, they have won the square root of **** all, despite him inheriting some extremely good players and having some very good results in that period.

Its been done to death in other threads, but generally the more you spend the more successful you are in football.

Good luck to Killie but this is about Hibs and doing something which will give us an alternative income stream and the ability to compete with Aberdeen and Hearts (who, despite being a bit of a car crash, only finished 3 points behind us).

What’s Bowie’s wealth £

green day
20-05-2019, 07:05 PM
What’s Bowie’s wealth £

I dont think he is super wealthy, like a Tom Hunter or Tom Farmer - but crucially he is a fan.

I guess he has the house, car, now has the football club as a toy and the cash to chuck at it.

Fair play to him, Killie used to train in Glasgow and there was no connection to the community - he changed all that.

Seems a decent guy, tbf

tmb1875
20-05-2019, 07:10 PM
Good to see Hsl already on top of a lot of ideas posted and I hope hibs take that on board and grant your requests. something that has stood out for me this year has been the hugely successful testimonial campaign for Paul hanlon. the boys on that committee have done a great job as they did with Lewis Stevenson also. The events raised a lot of attention and no doubt a few quid, could have a 5min pitch to get the message across, and get folk signed up on the night etc..
IMO would be really worthwhile having a conversation with the guys on that committee and see if you could hold regular events through the season with famous fans such as andy Murray, proclaimers, josh Taylor, Gary Anderson and maybe a hibs legends match at Easter road pre season annually where all proceeds go to hsl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DaveF
20-05-2019, 07:29 PM
I don’t speak for anyone but myself.

The facts are staring you in the face though.

I’m simply one of the 10,000 who haven’t signed up, I’m just not afraid to admit it on here!

And who is to say the other 9999 have the same attitude as you? Perhaps with a new, clearer message and a bit of support from the club it might kick on?

Might not but it's worth a try.

SunshineOnLeith
20-05-2019, 07:56 PM
And who is to say the other 9999 have the same attitude as you? Perhaps with a new, clearer message and a bit of support from the club it might kick on?

Might not but it's worth a try.

Another one here, only 9,998 to go.

Seriously though, it became clear quite some time ago that HSL and it's loudest advocates on here aren't interested in having those of us who don't want to join for whatever reason 'sticking our oars in' to their threads.

Even the message on their website asking for donations circles the wagons on anyone other than those who've 'believed' from the start. The second sentence begins "Despite objections and opposition from some quarters...". If you're thinking maybe you've come around to the idea and then read that, it's hardly going to have you reaching for your bank card to set up a direct debit!

DaveF
20-05-2019, 08:00 PM
Another one here, only 9,998 to go.

Seriously though, it became clear quite some time ago that HSL and it's loudest advocates on here aren't interested in having those of us who don't want to join for whatever reason 'sticking our oars in' to their threads.

Even the message on their website asking for donations circles the wagons on anyone other than those who've 'believed' from the start. The second sentence begins "Despite objections and opposition from some quarters...". If you're thinking maybe you've come around to the idea and then read that, it's hardly going to have you reaching for your bank card to set up a direct debit!

I don't think that true at all. Quite the reverse actually as I think they need to know what they are doing wrong and your view matters in that regard whether you contribute or not.

And I certainly don't think they will claim to be perfect (Not putting words in your mouth btw, just agreeing with you regarding bits like you have highlighted on their site)

Itsnoteasy
20-05-2019, 09:02 PM
It's not an exact science, and I'll need to hold my hands up and say I'm ignorant as to how Kilmarnock funded their team and how much they spent.

My best guess is that they over achieved, their manager did a better job than or manager did, or they managed to avoid the unfathomably large number of significant injuries that we sustained this season.

I think we finished above them last season, but happy to stand corrected on that one.

Money itself doesn't guarantee anything, but it does give a massive advantage to the teams who can afford to spend more.

Yes we finished 8 points ahead of them last season. This season we finished 13 points behind them. That's a 21 point swing.

As for money it's not working for Hearts, FOH.

But it's working for Killie FO sweet f+×k all.

The fans pump in enough of their hard earned cash, then the begging bowl is passed round.

Best of luck with the fundraising.

OfficialHSL
20-05-2019, 09:45 PM
Your on the money.
People keep banging on about the money FOH pump into the club, it's no helping them.

Third best team in Scotland with an average home attendance of about 7 - 8K haven't spent a penny on transfers fees & they wont pay the highest wages.

It's up to Hibs to attract better financial sponsorships instead of asking the working man to dig deeper into his pocket.
Gorgiegreens
We are are not sure we can agree with you entirely.
We are reasonably certain that almost every Hearts fan appreciates the help that FOH have and continue to give. They first of paid £4m a few years ago to literally save their Club. Secondly they then paid an extra £3m to help build their new stand. Surely this must have been helpful. They will very soon finish the purchase transaction and have available an extra £1.4m to spend on players. We would imagine any Manager would find this helpful if made available to them.

Your reference to Kilmarnock is well made. We have never said that more money guarantees success. History is littered with examples of Managers given huge sums only to waste. Conversely Managers with little funds doing well. These things can and do happen. Generally speaking however Over the long term the Clubs with the greatest funds generally have more success than those with less funds. The most important ingredient as always is a good Manager.

in terms of the Club needing to attract better sponsorship we can’t comment. Sponsorship is in essence advertising and there will be a going rate for this and we have no reason to suspect we are not already attracting the going rate unless you know otherwise.
We don’t want anyone to donate who can’t comfortably afford to do so. Life has many other more important priorities.

HSL

Fergos
20-05-2019, 10:43 PM
Some great ideas already on here.

A few from the top of my head.....and please nothing intended as critical, more likely to be poorly written....

Aware you get a certificate when you donate your £225, what about tiering the cash milestones, T-shirt when you reach £40, Framed pic of ER at £100, % off next purchase at Club Shop at £150..... whatever, you can be as creative as you wish with whatever you giveaway, personally a old fashioned signed ball from the squad always lit up my Xmas 😂😂etc etc....

We get a match day email from the club in the run up to the games, what about getting a perm link on there to the HSL website? And what about getting a perm pinned link to relevant info on here and Bounce?

Not sure about GDPR, data protection and all that but what about your access to all the supporters on the Hibs season ticket data base?

Any new season ticket cards that go out now could have HSL info on?

Youtube, FB, Instagram, more presence, type in HSL Hibs on YouTube and you get a video from years ago. HSL do the prize winners meet and greet prizes etc, get them videos and online everywhere. Aware this is time and money but any budding young Hibee social media types would be happy to have the experience for their cv Im sure, and no that’s not me.

One off flyering, up and down the terraces old school style, captive audience, create a bit of pre match chatter, simple message.

What has the money so far been able to achieve, don’t want to know what wages and how much, but put what the £ is actually achieving into real terms for what matters to us as supporters and it may have a position be effect.

Matchday announcer / ad boards, any opps to get a message on there? Even just the weblink.

Events, how could you capitalise around Mums / Dads day, Easter, Xmas as a gift idea?

Well done so far to all at HSL and all who have and continue to contribute, it will only get bigger.

GGTTH

Criswell
20-05-2019, 10:51 PM
I have always felt for any enterprise to be successful it is important to build momentum. Success breeds success.This has happened when last season we sold record amount of season tickets; people got the message and wanted to be part of it and the numbers took off.

The same could happen for HSL if properly managed. My suggestion is to set a target for donator numbers; say 2500, and when that target is met make a song and dance about it, set a new target; say 3000, and so on, hopefully building momentum and push on.

It is just a suggestion which may fall flat, I admit, but I feel we have to open to every possible initiative in order to make HSL a success. After all a successful HSL can only benefit the Club, something which every true supporter surely desires.

Mixu62
20-05-2019, 11:34 PM
Over here, some supermarkets and shops do a "donate the change" thing on electronic transactions. So if your total comes to $99.50, you get the option to round it up to $100 and the 0.50c goes to whatever charity is being promoted that week. Perhaps a similar arrangement could be made with the club shop or Behind the Goals? I don't know how many transactions we'd be looking at per week, but on match days it would add up quite a bit.

Another thing I think that puts people off is the "joining up" aspect. Perhaps people would be willing to make more one-off donations from time to time without the "officialdom" of signing up to an organisation. More of a casual thing, like a "donate here" link on hibsnet/bounce or something. Again, it might not add up to millions, but some of those casual contributors might end up signing up longer term.

In terms of more promotion, the club could acknowledge the contribution HSL has made in it's summer signings. Every time a Kamberi or McNulty sign for the club..."We couldn't have done it without HSL" or something.

Apologies in advance if all these things have been suggested/done before, I'm a little removed from it all over here!

BSEJVT
21-05-2019, 05:56 AM
Another one here, only 9,998 to go.

Seriously though, it became clear quite some time ago that HSL and it's loudest advocates on here aren't interested in having those of us who don't want to join for whatever reason 'sticking our oars in' to their threads.

Even the message on their website asking for donations circles the wagons on anyone other than those who've 'believed' from the start. The second sentence begins "Despite objections and opposition from some quarters...". If you're thinking maybe you've come around to the idea and then read that, it's hardly going to have you reaching for your bank card to set up a direct debit!

Where to start

Whilst I agree with the bit of your post that starts "the second sentence...." and thank you for that insight, I cant agree with any of the rest of it.

Its become a badge of honour for some who for whatever reason wont support HSL to criticise those that do, the "believer" bit is a prime example of that type of crap.

Criticising your fellow supporters who put more of their money into the club so you benefit from a better team on the park whilst securing the clubs longevity, classy classy stuff. Well done you. Feeling proud of yourself are you?

For the record, I far from "believed" at the start and even now I am a bit meh about the idea of fan ownership, when we get to 25.1% I will have some serious thinking to do.

But we run the risk of getting left far behind and when we do it will be too late to do anything about it and we will face yet more years of misery and so I joined and began advocating for HSL.

You can almost see some folk salivating when teams with less money that us do better than us and some with more don't, they think it justifies their position whilst conveniently overlooking the fact that the reason that Rantic have dominated Scottish Football for the last 100 years is that they have far more cash than anyone else. Pure and Simple.

Other teams have broken in occasionally but only for fleeting periods and only when they have been brilliant for a short while whilst Rantic haven't.

If folk cant see that money eventually equals success then I guess they are the same ones who still believe in a flat earth.

There are also folk out there who reasonably feel that they do as much as they can or want to, to support the club and that's absolutely understandable but for others to pretend that money doesn't matter is delusional.

I have no problem with folk not supporting HSL, but cant for the life of me understand the need to undermine it.

What is telling though is that these folk are invariably happy to criticise it and folk who support it, but I have never ever read a detailed reasoned post from one of them saying what alternatives they would suggest to close that gap or the personal initiative they are taking to do so.

It's all get more commercial income, encourage wealthy investors pie in the sky type rubbish, they would be as well suggesting digging for gold on Arthur's Seat.

Probably the same folk still waiting for their magic beans to grow or bemoaning how everyone else in the world has got lucky whilst they haven't, whilst failing to notice that those that have " got lucky" have actually got of their ***** and done something rather than sat back proclaiming the injustice of it all.

Don't want to support HSL fine, what about keeping shtum instead of sucking the energy out of every thread trying to do so?

Hate HSL, why not ignore the threads?

Ask not what your club can do for you, but what you can do for it!

weecounty hibby
21-05-2019, 06:10 AM
I'm not particularly interested in fan ownership. Especially when I see some of our fans in action. I donate because, A. I can afford to and B. It's additional money into Hibs. I have long since stopped even noticing that the money is coming out of my account as I'm not a huge contributor and I will probably keep on paying unless my circumstances change.
I too am amazed at the level of animosity shown to HSL by some, all they are trying to do is improve the funds available to the manager and so improve the quality of the team. There have been a load of good suggestions here so hopefully they will be taken on board and HSL and Hibs can keep on improving

LeithMike
21-05-2019, 06:44 AM
I think I would look at different tiers of membership. Becoming an eternal member after a certain level of contributions reduces he incentive to contribute once that level has been achieved but I recognise the difficulties in changing it now.

However, I'd look at using the founding member concept and give a particular time-limited benefit for that - names on the shirt, stone at ER, etc. I'd then look to get those existing and new members into an annual membership requiring a monthly DD with diff benefits based on level of contribution (somewhat similar to AbderDNA).

I also think the fan ownership is a huge incentive. I know a lot of people on here seem to be critical because they think it might put off new investment but I think football clubs should be community owned and if HSL are effectively getting shares for contributing to playing budget, that is an amazing deal. Are Barcelona and Real Madrid not community owned?

I've also mentioned before that HSL could play a bigger role in representing supporters. Given the shareholding and financial contribution to the club there must be a powerful voice there.

Finally, any way of tieing HSL up with season tickets to remove the finance companies? i.e. a direct debit of £50 per month would enable HSL to purchase my season ticket for me and contribute to my HSL membership.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

matty_f
21-05-2019, 06:59 AM
I'm not particularly interested in fan ownership. Especially when I see some of our fans in action. I donate because, A. I can afford to and B. It's additional money into Hibs. I have long since stopped even noticing that the money is coming out of my account as I'm not a huge contributor and I will probably keep on paying unless my circumstances change.
I too am amazed at the level of animosity shown to HSL by some, all they are trying to do is improve the funds available to the manager and so improve the quality of the team. There have been a load of good suggestions here so hopefully they will be taken on board and HSL and Hibs can keep on improving

That's a good post :agree:

What do you think fan ownership would look like in practice?

hibbydad
21-05-2019, 08:43 AM
So many excuses here for not getting involved. I would like to say something about fan ownership: those of us who refused to sell to Mercer know that it is a big plus to have substantial block of shares in friendly hands to block any future hostile takeover bid. STF won't live for ever so it is important to have a substantial shareholding in the club in the hands of Hibs supporters and off course the bonus is that money raised goes straight into the playing squad. People should ignore the Kanes of this world and see the positive nature of this initative

OfficialHSL
21-05-2019, 08:47 AM
Another one here, only 9,998 to go.

Seriously though, it became clear quite some time ago that HSL and it's loudest advocates on here aren't interested in having those of us who don't want to join for whatever reason 'sticking our oars in' to their threads.

Even the message on their website asking for donations circles the wagons on anyone other than those who've 'believed' from the start. The second sentence begins "Despite objections and opposition from some quarters...". If you're thinking maybe you've come around to the idea and then read that, it's hardly going to have you reaching for your bank card to set up a direct debit!
SunshineOnLeith
Can we first of all clarify your first comment.
Please be assured that we absolutely want you “ to stick your oar in” provided you mean offer your opinion and express your viewpoint albeit opposed in a positive manner. All we ask in return is that you enter the debate with an open mind and willing to reconsider your position. The reason we say this is that if we can fully understand the barriers that prevent more supporters stepping forward we have a better chance to change things to overcome those barriers.
Going to your second point, we note your thoughts on the content of our web site. We did not intend to offend anyone with these comments and they were only an observation at the time regarding some supporters who were spreading untruths about our Organisation. As a result of your observations we will happily remove this line as we want to appeal to all Hibs supporters.
Please help us by letting us know why Hibernian Supporters is not for you ?

Hibernian Supporters

weecounty hibby
21-05-2019, 09:20 AM
That's a good post :agree:

What do you think fan ownership would look like in practice?

I'm really not sure, I would hope that all it would be is that there would be an elected representative on the football club board. The only issue with that is that what if there is a disruptive element who get enough support to get their member on the board and this causes grief. I totally get the point made actually below your post about how "friendly" hands on shares helped stave off Mercer as well. I really see that all it would be would be a but of an extension of the fans rep on the board, perhaps with a but more power. The big benefit I see is the safe hands really, makes it more difficult to have a Duff/Gray situation or a Vlad type issue. I suppose as my ramblings show, I don't know and not sure how it will work
Anyway, I still see no downside to HSL at all and would encourage anyone who can to sign up to it

hibbydad
21-05-2019, 09:30 AM
You are right Wee County as I tried to say in my earlier post albeit not very well for me who experienced the Mercer issue as a shareholder the safe hands is the most important bit and the cash to the manager is a bonus. I cannot understand why so many have problems with the share ownership or is it just an excuse. For my part I will continue to contribute to HSL and will buy more shares in my own name when they become available

OfficialHSL
21-05-2019, 09:39 AM
Not a hope in hell of getting a few more thousand fans to sign up now.

The thing has been on the go for what, 5 years or so? In that time around 2500 fans have signed up.

We have in excess of 13k ST holders now, all of whom know about HSL. It’s impossible for them not to.

I’d be amazed if you get a few more dozen to sign up, let alone thousands.

I think you guys need to accept the fact that the vast majority of Hibs fans or season ticket holders just aren’t interested.
While the Chief
First of thank you for your thoughts.
While you may not want to contribute to Hibernian Supporters we were wondering if you would still want to help us ?
If you are right and that the many thousands, including Season Ticket holders “aren’t interested’ what do you think it is that they are not interested in ?
Please do not interpret this in any negative way, we are trying genuinely to understand what the barriers are ?

Hibernian Supporters

Bostonhibby
21-05-2019, 09:43 AM
You are right Wee County as I tried to say in my earlier post albeit not very well for me who experienced the Mercer issue as a shareholder the safe hands is the most important bit and the cash to the manager is a bonus. I cannot understand why so many have problems with the share ownership or is it just an excuse. For my part I will continue to contribute to HSL and will buy more shares in my own name when they become availableYou're the same as me on this one, there's no downside to HSL and it's aims. I appreciate there's folk who have entirely good reasons for not joining and that's their right.

I don't understand the motives of anyone attacking something that can only put money into the playing side of the club, especially the Ponzi activists who don't seem to know what a Ponzi scheme is.

Some good constructive questioning is healthy even if it's repetive.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Gerard
21-05-2019, 10:02 AM
You're the same as me on this one, there's no downside to HSL and it's aims. I appreciate there's folk who have entirely good reasons for not joining and that's their right.

I don't understand the motives of anyone attacking something that can only put money into the playing side of the club, especially the Ponzi activists who don't seem to know what a Ponzi scheme is.

Some good constructive questioning is healthy even if it's repetive.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

I do not understand why some people are being critical of supporting HSL. HSL will ensure that no person who buys a major share holding in Hibs can do anything to harm our club
Such as selling the stadium and building houses for example
HSL in its brief existence has raised money that Hibs has used to improve the playing squad.
As HSl evolves I am sure that the members of HSL will make sure that it will attract as many Hibs fans to support HSL who will then give more money to The club to get better players.

DaveF
21-05-2019, 10:17 AM
I'm really not sure, I would hope that all it would be is that there would be an elected representative on the football club board. The only issue with that is that what if there is a disruptive element who get enough support to get their member on the board and this causes grief. I totally get the point made actually below your post about how "friendly" hands on shares helped stave off Mercer as well. I really see that all it would be would be a but of an extension of the fans rep on the board, perhaps with a but more power. The big benefit I see is the safe hands really, makes it more difficult to have a Duff/Gray situation or a Vlad type issue. I suppose as my ramblings show, I don't know and not sure how it will work
Anyway, I still see no downside to HSL at all and would encourage anyone who can to sign up to it

They covered this at the AGM and said that HSL representation on the board would come from someone who had served their time (2 years was mentioned) on the HSL board first so as to rule out - or as good as rule out - that scenario you raise.

Again, probably something that needs to be made clearer.

WhileTheChief..
21-05-2019, 11:09 AM
While the Chief
First of thank you for your thoughts.
While you may not want to contribute to Hibernian Supporters we were wondering if you would still want to help us ?
If you are right and that the many thousands, including Season Ticket holders “aren’t interested’ what do you think it is that they are not interested in ?
Please do not interpret this in any negative way, we are trying genuinely to understand what the barriers are ?

Hibernian Supporters

I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

Gerard
21-05-2019, 11:25 AM
I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

If the club did not have HSL money they would not have have been able to sign the players we have signed .
It is probable that being the case the club would not have finished 5th this season and would not received the money due to this position from the SPL.
Hearts and Aberdeen will use the funds they receive from fans contributions to attract players that we might have signed.
We agree that the club must not spend money it does not receive as this is the road to bankruptcy

WhileTheChief..
21-05-2019, 11:42 AM
If the club did not have HSL money they would not have have been able to sign the players we have signed .
It is probable that being the case the club would not have finished 5th this season and would not received the money due to this position from the SPL.
Hearts and Aberdeen will use the funds they receive from fans contributions to attract players that we might have signed.
We agree that the club must not spend money it does not receive as this is the road to bankruptcy

Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

matty_f
21-05-2019, 11:55 AM
I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

That's a really good point - and I totally understand the part about a multi-million pound business asking fans for more money.

I think the key difference to Hibs (or most football clubs) doing it is that our multi-million pound business isn't in it to make profit for already wealthy shareholders.

There is also the issue that a club our size has a very limited reach in terms of attracting new investment - there's not much return for businesses advertising with, or sponsoring Hibs. TV revenue is limited in comparison with other countries that compete for players we'd want, and our supporter base has only limited potential for growth.

I think that's a significant difference. If Hibs were super-wealthy and clearly able to compete with similarly sized clubs in Scotland without supporter investment, then I'd probably be inclined to take the same view-point as you.

We're not though, and I view my donation almost as though it's me doing my bit for my club (not saying that those that don't contribute to HSL don't do their bit, btw)

For me, HSL and the share issue is normal business activity for raising capital - if I was running a business and needed investment to expand or compete, I would do a share issue or go to existing shareholders and ask for investment.

This isn't that different but with the benefit of us getting a potentially better team to watch and safeguarding the club for the future.

Gerard
21-05-2019, 12:06 PM
Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

I see your point. There is no guarantee that as you say working smarter will ensure we have quality players as in football there is a risk of signing players and the concept of working smarter as I see it does not guarantee getting the best quality players that the club can afford.
All clubs I am convinced strive to work smarter. The outcome of doing so is not guaranteed.
Before HSL the club had to work within its means. This resulted in the club being at best finishing in the mid range of the spl table and often just below
The consequences of being mediocre is selling less season tickets and walk up tickets, less spl money,less shop sales
And making it difficult to attract players we should be able to attract
I think HSL in the long gives the club the potential to sign better players than the ones we could afford to attract
There is no guarantee that these players will make the club successful
In my opinion a club of our size needs to finish every year in the top six,regularly play European football and occasionally win cups. These are realistic goals

hibbydad
21-05-2019, 12:10 PM
While the Chief it is all about injecting working capital into the business. All businesses need working capital. In our caseit is to invest in the playing squad and a better playing squad will lead to larger revenue streams coming into the club. Your comment about accepting where we are if our opponents get ahead of us does not hold water as you must have seen for yourself the way people react when results go against us

DaveF
21-05-2019, 12:22 PM
Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

Honestly, that is just nonsense. You could just as easily say its your ST money wasted. Right there.

We all put our trust in those in position to identify the correct players who will give value for money. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

WhileTheChief..
21-05-2019, 12:50 PM
Well of course you could say that, there’s just one pot of money after all. We could equally say that our commercial income has just been wasted.

We’re not discussing ST sales on this thread though.

spike220
21-05-2019, 12:59 PM
Here is my suggestion.

Get someone to design an iconic Hibs Polo shirt and or top, that identifies them as a HSL contributor. Make these only available to purchase by people signed up.

When they go to collect their tops they are handed out bt Sir David Grey or other iconic player who shakes thier hand and slaps them on the back.

DaveF
21-05-2019, 01:18 PM
Well of course you could say that, there’s just one pot of money after all. We could equally say that our commercial income has just been wasted.

We’re not discussing ST sales on this thread though.

So why not just say that then?

WhileTheChief..
21-05-2019, 01:24 PM
Are you for real? You know the point I’m making.

Stop trying to pick an argument when some of us are happy trying to have a discussion.

CentreLine
21-05-2019, 01:24 PM
Take a look at the list of players we’ve just released, I’d imagine there’s been a fair amount of wages paid out to players that barely kicked a ball for us, for whatever reason.

That’s your HSL money right there. Wasted.

If we can work smarter with the funds we have there is no reason at all that we need fans to pay more.

But it’s not money waisted. The club required a pool of players. If the position is filled already it needs back up. It’s actually a good thing if the back up has not been used but it has to be there.

DaveF
21-05-2019, 01:29 PM
Are you for real? You know the point I’m making.

Stop trying to pick an argument when some of us are happy trying to have a discussion.

You made a crap point about HSL money being wasted and I questioned you on it. No argument from me, simply a difference of opinion.

I'm out of it now though. You crack on.

Hibbyradge
21-05-2019, 01:37 PM
My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.



STF is getting nothing for his shares this way.

I'm certain that there have been offers for the club which he's turned down, opting instead to give it to the fans as long as they're prepared to invest in the team.

Hibbyradge
21-05-2019, 01:44 PM
Well of course you could say that, there’s just one pot of money after all. We could equally say that our commercial income has just been wasted.

We’re not discussing ST sales on this thread though.

Those players were still necessary, whether they got the chance to contribute or not.

Saying that the money spent on them was a waste is a bit like someone who hasn't had a car accident, had his house burnt down or burgled, and didn't take ill on holiday bemoaning the insurance policies they brought.

If you remember some of the team's and substitute benches we've fielded in recent years, you'll realise that we already operate as close to bare minimum as possible.

I seem to remember a certain emergency goalkeeper being recruited a few years ago. And Spector last season.

WhileTheChief..
21-05-2019, 02:11 PM
So it looks like I’m in the minority then!

I guess someone else can have a go at trying to explain why we don’t have 13,000 HSL subscribers!

Blaster
21-05-2019, 02:22 PM
So it looks like I’m in the minority then!

I guess someone else can have a go at trying to explain why we don’t have 13,000 HSL subscribers!

Why 13,000? Surely there’s no reason we shouldn’t target 5,000 adult hibs supporters contributing something towards HSL. Is that not realistic from where we are just now

RIP
21-05-2019, 02:24 PM
Why don’t we admit that any scheme that was initiated by Rod was always going to lack vision, excitement and a strong connection with the rank and file.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not doubting the sincerity of Rod and the people he worked with back in 2014 to get the wheels in motion. But as with all things Hibs Board, it seems to have lacked real marketing flair or community engagement.

Gerard
21-05-2019, 02:26 PM
So it looks like I’m in the minority then!

I guess someone else can have a go at trying to explain why we don’t have 13,000 HSL subscribers!

There are many reasons why people do not subscribe to HSL ranging from people who can afford to subscribe to people who are not convinced that HSL is making a positive contribution to improving the team.
In time I think HSL will grow the subscriber base and will make the important share holding of 25.1% and grow beyond it
It is possible that HSL will evolve to become similar to the Aberdeen fans scheme that offers incentives for membership
There are hibs fans who can not but season tickets due to the nature of their work or place if residency and they are looking to help Hibs buy better players.

Leithenhibby
21-05-2019, 02:28 PM
Why 13,000? Surely there’s no reason we shouldn’t target 5,000 adult hibs supporters contributing something towards HSL. Is that not realistic from where we are just now

It's an excellent starting point..👏👏

Tom Hart RIP
21-05-2019, 02:33 PM
Just got this email. Good idea. It was discussed on Sunday and now implemented 👍

First of all give yourself a pat on the back for helping to make it happen. The memories linger on.

We want more though, so I wonder if you can please help us to achieve more.

We have been asked by some Members to offer a “refer a friend” incentive so we wanted to do this as quickly as possible.

It’s very simple. We are asking every one of our existing Members/contributors to find just one other Hibee to join us in helping to give a little extra support to our Team.

To make that task a little easier here’s what we can do in return.

For the first 32 (get it) brand new supporters joining us we will enter them into a simple draw (first name out of a hat). The prize – a free Season Ticket for next year. If you already have one we can give you a £100 voucher to spend in the Hibs shop or alternatively credit your new Member Account with 1000 Francks.

For the existing Member/Donator who made that referral they too can earn a free Season Ticket or have a £100 voucher or 2000 Francks credited to their Member account if they already have a Season Ticket.

Remember, to join go to www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk.

Good Luck


James Adie
Chairman

Tom Hart RIP
21-05-2019, 02:34 PM
Ps it was headed happy Scottish Cup day

hhibs
21-05-2019, 02:55 PM
Why don’t we admit that any scheme that was initiated by Rod was always going to lack vision, excitement and a strong connection with the rank and file.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not doubting the sincerity of Rod and the people he worked with back in 2014 to get the wheels in motion. But as with all things Hibs Board, it seems to have lacked real marketing flair or community engagement.




Agree with you there,though many on this board will not admit it ,too many Hibs fan that have a view,RP is like a dead hand on any initiative IMO

He also is a dead hand on our potential commercial activities,as for the marketing of Hibs where blame can be spread about, that is just downright poor,again IMO

:flag::flag::flag:

OfficialHSL
21-05-2019, 04:03 PM
I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

While the Chief

Thank you for taking the time to respond, we can see from your comments that your views are honestly held and you mean no harm to Hibernian Supporters.

I have another engagement shortly and cannot respond in full at the moment but I do want to deal with every single point that you raise, as previously stated, not in a contentious way but rather , " have you thought about this" kind of way. I hope you know what I mean.

Can I first of all deal with your first sentence - " The basic ........"
Herein lies a very interesting point. In our view it is true to say that it does have an £8/9m turnover but is it like any other "business". It isn't really. In a traditional business the owner ( or shareholders ) would seek to maximise the profit from that business with a view to optimising dividends for themselves. In this organisation that doesn't apply. One of the key stakeholders doesn't want the business to make any profit as they want every single surplus penny spent on players because we want sporting success, not financial success. The point I'm making is that I would share your view if there was a sense that the owner of this multi million pound business is seeking to make financial gain at the expense of donators. We just can't see any evidence of that. The current owner paid £4.5m to buy shares in the Club four years ago only to immediately agree to dilute their shareholding in half. Hopefully you can see where we are coming from here ?

" It used to be that........" - you are probably right on this one but I think it is fair to say that times and circumstances have changed. Our nearest neighbouring League ( EPL ) has transformed. I remember when we could take on big English Clubs because the financial gap between us and them wasn't quite so big, but now it is. Financially we can hardly compete for Championship players let alone EPL. But here we have a choice, we can do nothing and accept things as they now are or we can voluntarily agree to pay a little more for the prospect of trying to attract a slightly better quality of player than we could otherwise. The key point here is voluntarily. We don't want anyone to donate if they can't even afford to pay their rent or mortgage. But if you can, great.

Give it some thought and I will respond to your other points.


Hibernian Supporters

Bangkok Hibby
21-05-2019, 04:10 PM
OK HSL, great idea to get us to enrol other people and the prize draw is pretty attractive. I sent the email to my mate at work, he followed the link, set up the DD and donated £225. The only problem is, at no point was referral mentioned so we don't know how...

1) He is recognised as a referral (maybe too late)?
2) I get the credit and a chance to win (again ,maybe too late)?

OfficialHSL
21-05-2019, 04:11 PM
Why don’t we admit that any scheme that was initiated by Rod was always going to lack vision, excitement and a strong connection with the rank and file.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not doubting the sincerity of Rod and the people he worked with back in 2014 to get the wheels in motion. But as with all things Hibs Board, it seems to have lacked real marketing flair or community engagement.

RIP

This scheme was not "initiated" by RP and I am are aware that you too are familiar with all the circumstances surrounding the development and birth of Hibernian Supporters. If we lack vision, excitement or anything else please direct your ire at me and my fellow Directors and fellow supporters who have worked on this.

Jim Adie

OfficialHSL
21-05-2019, 04:14 PM
OK HSL, great idea to get us to enrol other people and the prize draw is pretty attractive. I sent the email to my mate at work, he followed the link, set up the DD and donated £225. The only problem is, at no point was referral mentioned so we don't know how...

1) He is recognised as a referral (maybe too late)?
2) I get the credit and a chance to win (again ,maybe too late)?

Thank you so much for doing this - we know now.

You make a serious point but we do have a simple answer. Please just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk with both your details.


Hibernian Supporters

coldingham hibs
21-05-2019, 04:16 PM
While the Chief

Thank you for taking the time to respond, we can see from your comments that your views are honestly held and you mean no harm to Hibernian Supporters.

I have another engagement shortly and cannot respond in full at the moment but I do want to deal with every single point that you raise, as previously stated, not in a contentious way but rather , " have you thought about this" kind of way. I hope you know what I mean.

Can I first of all deal with your first sentence - " The basic ........"
Herein lies a very interesting point. In our view it is true to say that it does have an £8/9m turnover but is it like any other "business". It isn't really. In a traditional business the owner ( or shareholders ) would seek to maximise the profit from that business with a view to optimising dividends for themselves. In this organisation that doesn't apply. One of the key stakeholders doesn't want the business to make any profit as they want every single surplus penny spent on players because we want sporting success, not financial success. The point I'm making is that I would share your view if there was a sense that the owner of this multi million pound business is seeking to make financial gain at the expense of donators. We just can't see any evidence of that. The current owner paid £4.5m to buy shares in the Club four years ago only to immediately agree to dilute their shareholding in half. Hopefully you can see where we are coming from here ?

" It used to be that........" - you are probably right on this one but I think it is fair to say that times and circumstances have changed. Our nearest neighbouring League ( EPL ) has transformed. I remember when we could take on big English Clubs because the financial gap between us and them wasn't quite so big, but now it is. Financially we can hardly compete for Championship players let alone EPL. But here we have a choice, we can do nothing and accept things as they now are or we can voluntarily agree to pay a little more for the prospect of trying to attract a slightly better quality of player than we could otherwise. The key point here is voluntarily. We don't want anyone to donate if they can't even afford to pay their rent or mortgage. But if you can, great.

Give it some thought and I will respond to your other points.


Hibernian Supporters


Correct on all counts in my opinion. We donate because we love the club and want success, days out at Hampden like 21st May 2016.

I am happy to donate £120 a year if it means I can have more of these special days & magical memories.

If people cannot afford to pay a bit extra then fine no problem, but I for one am fed up with those criticising the job HSL are doing.

Bangkok Hibby
21-05-2019, 04:18 PM
Thank you so much for doing this - we know now.

You make a serious point but we do have a simple answer. Please just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk with both your details.


Hibernian Supporters

Thanks...email sent

WhileTheChief..
21-05-2019, 07:43 PM
Official HSL, thanks for the reply.

Appreciate your thoughts but it’s probably best if I leave it there and wish you well.

Itsnoteasy
21-05-2019, 08:56 PM
I think you guys do a terrific job and I don’t take anything you say in a negative way.

I’m wary of adding anything further as it may be taken as me trying to derail your efforts. I promise that is not my intention at all.

I’ll try and answer in as basic a form as I can, and again I’m only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

The basic principle of a typical fan donating cash to a business with a multi million pound turnover just doesn’t sit right with me. It used be that buying a ST was the way you supported your club financially, now that’s not enough.

I think fans in general pay more than enough already.

The constant mantra of “every little helps” is just BS. If I start donating £10 per month it will make zero difference to anything at the club. Now, the argument here is always that if 5000 of us paid the tenner then we can make a huge difference.

Well that’s a kind of if my auntie had balls argument.

My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.

We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can.

We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!

2019 post of the year.

:top marks

You've had a lot to say for yourself on this topic, like me you will be getting classed as an Attention Seeker soon if not so already.

hibbydad
22-05-2019, 07:13 AM
While the Chief I hope you won't come on this board complaining if Aberdeen and Hearts have better teams than us. You have had an opportunity to join this initative but all you have done is prevaricate and make negative comments. Very sad

Itsnoteasy
22-05-2019, 08:55 AM
While the Chief I hope you won't come on this board complaining if Aberdeen and Hearts have better teams than us. You have had an opportunity to join this initative but all you have done is prevaricate and make negative comments. Very sad

They have already stated where they are with HSL.
Why just mention Hearts & Aberdeen, as I have previously stated Killie over 2 seasons have had a 21 point swing over Hibs from last season to this season. Tell me what fan initiatives they have?

I hardly think his comments are negative or SAD, more realistic.

Remind me how much FOH have pumped into Hearts & where they finished this season.

Gloucester Hibs
22-05-2019, 09:00 AM
They have already stated where they are with HSL.
Why just mention Hearts & Aberdeen, as I have previously stated Killie over 2 seasons have had a 21 point swing over Hibs from last season to this season. Tell me what fan initiatives they have?

I hardly think his comments are negative or SAD, more realistic.

Remind me how much FOH have pumped into Hearts & where they finished this season.

I'm confused; it appears you are suggesting an increase in investment will have no impact whatsoever on our performance on the pitch? :dunno:

Leith's finest
22-05-2019, 09:08 AM
Not everybody is confident in doing payments online, not just hsl but buying tickets for away games etc, I am one of them, it's the reason i can't go to tynecastle etc these days as all tickets are online

green day
22-05-2019, 09:21 AM
Remind me how much FOH have pumped into Hearts & where they finished this season.

Its been explained by Jim Eadie upthread, however if you missed it I will try and summarise FoH spends -




FoH have been pumping money into the (overpriced and over budget) stand / new pitch infrastructure this season, as well as some for players. You have to assume that the Naismith deal is partly donations.
Once the stand is completed, their money will purchase the club outright from Budge.
Once that is completed - and assuming similar levels of ST and commercial income - they will have around £1.5m a year more than us to spend on player purchase or player salaries.


You can fill in the gaps as to what happens thereafter, but I have a fair idea.

WhileTheChief..
22-05-2019, 09:34 AM
While the Chief I hope you won't come on this board complaining if Aberdeen and Hearts have better teams than us. You have had an opportunity to join this initative but all you have done is prevaricate and make negative comments. Very sad

Official HSL and a few other posters were wondering why more people haven’t signed up and were looking for feedback.

GillyHibee
22-05-2019, 09:45 AM
Is there a "sign up" or "donate" tick-box type option on the payment screen when you purchase a season ticket for HSL? That may encourage folk to do a one off donation?

green day
22-05-2019, 09:53 AM
Is there a "sign up" or "donate" tick-box type option on the payment screen when you purchase a season ticket for HSL? That may encourage folk to do a one off donation?

No but your 100% right Hibs have to come more on board and help out.

Personally I don't give a monkeys if they need to be separate companies, but at the moment despite being "willing" Hibs themselves are not helping HSL enough.

Odd, really when all the cash adds to the budget.

Since452
22-05-2019, 10:04 AM
Is there a "sign up" or "donate" tick-box type option on the payment screen when you purchase a season ticket for HSL? That may encourage folk to do a one off donation?

Or even when buying a match day ticket online. Im sure people would donate 10/20 quid here and there

DaveF
22-05-2019, 10:24 AM
No but your 100% right Hibs have to come more on board and help out.

Personally I don't give a monkeys if they need to be separate companies, but at the moment despite being "willing" Hibs themselves are not helping HSL enough.

Odd, really when all the cash adds to the budget.

Totally agree. The comment from LD at the agm was that the club were giving HSL 'space' to grow as they had put aside plans for membership schemes and such like which would have competed alongside it.

Take that how you will. I wasn't really impressed with it as an answer.

green day
22-05-2019, 10:57 AM
Totally agree. The comment from LD at the agm was that the club were giving HSL 'space' to grow as they had put aside plans for membership schemes and such like which would have competed alongside it.

Take that how you will. I wasn't really impressed with it as an answer.

Interesting.

I do wonder what the take up rate would be - now - of a scheme (endorsed by the bounce and .net, perhaps?), run by Hibs, purely for the benefit of the player budget with no muddying the waters with share dilutions etc?

(p.s. I know I am really describing HSL, but there is a bit of a chequered history and - even though I am a member, have been since day 1 - I have wondered about a complete revamp / overhaul for a long time............

Tom Hart RIP
22-05-2019, 01:23 PM
Good to see some fans joining up following the discussion on here.
Hopefully the refer a friend initiative will generate some more.

hibbydad
22-05-2019, 02:23 PM
Gorgie Greens the problem is in future years after the yams have paid their stand off there will be £1.4 m going straight into Potter's playing budget Can you imagine what Paul would do with that money and yes it is sad that not more Hibs supporters want to back this initative.

weecounty hibby
22-05-2019, 04:54 PM
They have already stated where they are with HSL.
Why just mention Hearts & Aberdeen, as I have previously stated Killie over 2 seasons have had a 21 point swing over Hibs from last season to this season. Tell me what fan initiatives they have?

I hardly think his comments are negative or SAD, more realistic.

Remind me how much FOH have pumped into Hearts & where they finished this season.

The Killie thing is a but of a red herring in my opinion. Obviously I don't know the amounts but Clarke was on record as saying that he had been very well backed by Billy Bowie. I think that the directors at Rugby Park are propping them up financially. Can't and won't go on forever, see Dundee Utd and the Thompson's. What is being talked about is sustainable additional revenue, not a rich sugar daddy.

OfficialHSL
22-05-2019, 05:37 PM
Official HSL and a few other posters were wondering why more people haven’t signed up and were looking for feedback.
While the Chief

You are right and your feedback and thoughts are most welcome. As we said previously it really helps us to understand potential barriers if we can hear what supporters think about certain things. It is inevitable that there will be a variety of opinions but what we want to do is eliminate any misconceptions that are out there. We responded to your first couple of points yesterday, allow us to address the others :

"The constant mantra of every little helps..........". If you and you alone pay £10 a month to the Club then you would be correct, it really would not make much difference. However, across the City, if you have 8000 supporters donating on average £14 per month to the Club it does and will in the future make a huge and very real difference. If we were to phone Leeann and say that we will in future be sending over an extra £112,000 a month to spend on Players we can assure you the Board would be overwhelmed, not to mention Paul and Robbie. As more and more supporters are joining us we are handing over more and more money. This is real money that is being made available and is being spent on real players. Your Auntie may only have one ball at the moment but she is gradually growing another ball and once she has this she will indeed be your uncle. For the record, she didn't have any balls when we started.

“My take on things from the outset were that STF couldn’t find anyone to buy the club and that this is a way for him to start to get shot of it. If it had simply been pay £225 to own a wee bit of the club then fine.’

Please note that this is precisely what is proposed so if you are fine with that jump aboard. Indeed it is even better than that because the £225 doesn't go to STF it goes to the Club to spend on players.

‘We are now constantly told that the only way to compete with Hearts or Aberdeen is for us to donate money to the club. I simply don’t agree with this one bit.

If that is the case and I’m wrong, then I think as a club we need to then just accept our place financially and do the best we can. ‘

As we have acknowledged already more money does not guarantee constant success. It is a fact ( Accounts are publicly available ) that Aberdeen and Hearts do have more funds available and in the case of Hearts from around next February this will be around £1.4m. To our credit we have done rather well in such circumstances but it has been a few years since we have had the better of Aberdeen. Now while you may be willing to accept that rather bleak outlook, and you are of course completely entitled to do so, it would seem that no one at the Club is willing to give in. Our Members also take the view that they want to do something about this situation and that is why they donate. But again, that is their prerogative as it is entirely voluntary.

‘We’ve tried spending money we didn’t have in the past resulting in huge debts. Now we’re trying to spend money we don’t have by getting fans to donate it.

How about just spending the money we do have!’
Your first comment is of course right however the second point isn’t. We are indeed spending the money we do have and some of it is coming from our Members. This additional money allows our Manager to spend a little more than he might have had otherwise.

We hope all of this makes sense and would love to have you with us, no matter what you could afford and certainly only if you can afford anything.

Hibernian Supporters

hibbydad
22-05-2019, 06:35 PM
HSL is the monthly amount rising

WhileTheChief..
22-05-2019, 08:04 PM
Decent reply HSL:aok:

Maybe one day:wink:

RIP
22-05-2019, 08:38 PM
RIP

This scheme was not "initiated" by RP and I am are aware that you too are familiar with all the circumstances surrounding the development and birth of Hibernian Supporters. If we lack vision, excitement or anything else please direct your ire at me and my fellow Directors and fellow supporters who have worked on this.

Jim Adie

I’ve no ire whatsoever Jim. What I recall is that between 2011 when I worked with Fife to initiate Let’s Work Together and 2013, when several exciting projects were proposed to the Hibs Board by working groups and their respective board members, we continually felt a reluctance to execute.

My brother had worked for Rangers, Arsenal and a couple of other clubs on bond or ownership schemes and the LWT Sales & Marketing Group were willing to submit a proposal. However, without a CEO or Marketing Director in post there wasn’t a clear commercial strategy, and another idea was pushed into the long grass.

The best thing about 2013 was the campaign run to recruit a CEO. Of course it was Rod that finally realised that he was carrying too many roles since the departure of Fife and Scott. I was thrilled when Leeann was finally approached and pleased when a version of your Hibs in the Community scheme evolved into HSL.

My point, poorly made for which I apologise, was that rather than being seen as ‘fan-led’, HSL was viewed by some fans and groups as ‘board-initiated’. The ten-strong Sales & Marketing Group within LWT had also divided on the best vehicle for a fan purchase and so failed to step forward to get behind the venture.

Looking back it was a troubled time and far from the ideal climate to launch a fan investment model. I admire you greatly for sticking with HSL these 5 years but I’m often left wondering whether you have sufficient skilled volunteer resource or Director support for your efforts. Maybe I’m too remote to have a credible or informed opinion Jim - that’s just my feelings from the outside looking in.

Best Wishes
Gogs

hibbydad
22-05-2019, 08:42 PM
Decent reply HSL:aok:

Maybe one day:wink:
How condescending

OfficialHSL
22-05-2019, 08:45 PM
HSL is the monthly amount rising


Yes it is.

OfficialHSL
22-05-2019, 08:46 PM
Decent reply HSL:aok:

Maybe one day:wink:


Thank you, you will be most welcome should you choose to join.

Hibernian Supporters

hibbydad
22-05-2019, 08:49 PM
I am pleased to hear that we have spoken about in the supporters club often and weare all frustrated that more are not backing HSL. Will have to get my own certificate in due course but not good with a lot of web sites

OfficialHSL
22-05-2019, 08:55 PM
I am pleased to hear that we have spoken about in the supporters club often and weare all frustrated that more are not backing HSL. Will have to get my own certificate in due course but not good with a lot of web sites

Yes it is good news. More and more are stepping towards us. We would be happy to come down to the Club to do another open session if you feel that would help ? Also just drop us an email if you need help regarding your Certificate.

info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk

WhileTheChief..
22-05-2019, 09:16 PM
How condescending

Christ you’re a pest. Pop me on ignore.

hibbydad
22-05-2019, 09:26 PM
Christ you’re a pest. Pop me on ignore.
You would probably be better on sickback. For your information I understand finance having worked in serious finance and I can only tell you that What you are being told about Hearts and Aberdeen is totally true. I appeal to you to think again

hibbydad
22-05-2019, 09:30 PM
Christ you’re a pest. Pop me on ignore.
I also find your language very offensive

WhileTheChief..
22-05-2019, 09:43 PM
You would probably be better on sickback. For your information I understand finance having worked in serious finance and I can only tell you that What you are being told about Hearts and Aberdeen is totally true. I appeal to you to think again

Yup, you’ll win loads of folk over with this kinda chat.

BSEJVT
22-05-2019, 10:10 PM
How condescending

Sorry didn't see it that way at all

WTC and I have crossed swords over HSL in the past and whilst I don't agree with his stance, there are bits of it I understand and respect and I thought your post was uncalled for.

WTC has spent affair bit of time they didn't need to explaining their views and engaging in the debate over HSL and that is all anyone can ask for.

They didn't need to take the time to do so.

matty_f
22-05-2019, 10:20 PM
Sorry didn't see it that way at all

WTC and I have crossed swords over HSL in the past and whilst I don't agree with his stance, there are bits of it I understand and respect and I thought your post was uncalled for.

WTC has spent affair bit of time they didn't need to explaining their views and engaging in the debate over HSL and that is all anyone can ask for.

They didn't need to take the time to do so.

:agree:

HSL need to know what folk don't like about it if they're ever going to grow to the extent we need them to.

They need people like WTC to raise these issues and debate them sensibly, as they have on this thread.

It's healthy.

jacomo
22-05-2019, 10:28 PM
I don't care if it's 2 separate companies. The only way HSL will increase is by Dempster coming out and endorsing it for Hibs, advertising it on the front page of the website, putting it in the programme, putting billboards up around ER.

HSL themselves can't do this, that much is obvious.

I am now getting a bit pissed off with HSL asking for answers which - as you point out - are very very clear.


:agree:

FoH was set up in response to a crisis at Hearts but became the centre of their story. The contrast with HSL is night and day.

AberdeeNA or whatever it’s called was driven by the club.

If Hibs want HSL to deliver more funds then the club has to promote it, not leave it to HSL to rely on volunteers.

c31
22-05-2019, 11:00 PM
Maybe a change of branding is required. I already deal with two company’s that are called HSL and for the Hibs one I didn’t know what the L stood for. It should be club driven, and included in all correspondence. This would promote it to wider audience. Just my tuppence worth.

ozwoody
23-05-2019, 01:53 AM
:agree:

FoH was set up in response to a crisis at Hearts but became the centre of their story. The contrast with HSL is night and day.

AberdeeNA or whatever it’s called was driven by the club.

If Hibs want HSL to deliver more funds then the club has to promote it, not leave it to HSL to rely on volunteers.

Totally agree,
i have looked at both hearts and Aberdeen websites, and their initiatives are featured on the home pages with links.This gives the impression that the clubs are actually endorsing the fundraisers.
Is there anything on our site? Nothing,nada,zilch.Do the majority of our fans know about it?

Without a perceived endorsement and backing from the club in terms of getting the word out there and promoting it, we will always be playing catch up due to fans not having clarity on where the money is going.

i know there are probably emails from HSL to members, but what if people who are swaying about getting involved? They have to email questions, wait on replies etc when all they possibly need to be convinced is figures about their financial input .

Would something like this sway me if I was on the fence? https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna-homepage/benefits/
absolutely it would.

I am astounded the club isn’t shouting this from the rooftops as they are the sole beneficiaries in this venture.

This is not a criticism of the work the volunteers do , it’s more of answering the question regarding feedback

Steve-O
23-05-2019, 02:51 AM
I'm interested to know what people don't like about the idea of fan ownership?

Is it that if the fans stop paying, the club goes down the tubes?

Or is it that many actually don't understand what "fan ownership" truly means? I must confess, I don't.

Agree with a previous point about the name / marketing being a little boring overall? My abiding memory of the marketing I've seen is the Proclaimers both looking utterly miserable while they asked for money. Did not hit the mark for me.

I'm no marketing genius but could certainly buy into a group that is somehow 'cooler' and perhaps there could be exclusive t-shirts or the like for members (the SSC do this, for example) - either as part of sign up, or available to buy, or both.

I get that ALL money goes to the playing budget but the impression I get is that people would like something for their money that is more tangible than simply knowing a small amount has gone to the playing budget.

Agree that the club could do a lot more to show support. From the outside, it almost seems as if HSL are some sort of 'rebel' group not actually on the same page as the club. It sounds like that is totally inaccurate, but that is maybe because some HSL members have openly criticised the club at times?

hibbydad
23-05-2019, 04:51 AM
Yup, you’ll win loads of folk over with this kinda chat.
You will never be won over just be honest and admit that because you don't want to be won over

MSK
23-05-2019, 05:39 AM
You will never be won over just be honest and admit that because you don't want to be won overYou are like a dug wi a bone, the guy has put his reasons over and as far as I can see, he and others have debated the point well. Why dont you focus on promoting HSL instead of sniping at one individual, you are not doing HSL any favours 👍

OfficialHSL
23-05-2019, 07:16 AM
:agree:

HSL need to know what folk don't like about it if they're ever going to grow to the extent we need them to.

They need people like WTC to raise these issues and debate them sensibly, as they have on this thread.

It's healthy.

MattyF

While we did not start this thread we suspect it has reached it's natural conclusion, and as you say there has been a really healthy and helpful debate. We have taken away many great ideas and while we may not be able to implement all of them we will be doing more, much much more, as many will already have noticed.

We are really moving in the right direction and we sense a real bit of momentum gathering. Great positive news with more and more money going to the Club every month as a result of ever increasing Membership. We have the right correct democratic structure in place and by introducing many of the ideas listed above we will grow even faster than we are.

Thank you.


Hibernian Supporters

matty_f
23-05-2019, 08:50 AM
MattyF

While we did not start this thread we suspect it has reached it's natural conclusion, and as you say there has been a really healthy and helpful debate. We have taken away many great ideas and while we may not be able to implement all of them we will be doing more, much much more, as many will already have noticed.

We are really moving in the right direction and we sense a real bit of momentum gathering. Great positive news with more and more money going to the Club every month as a result of ever increasing Membership. We have the right correct democratic structure in place and by introducing many of the ideas listed above we will grow even faster than we are.

Thank you.


Hibernian Supporters

In that case, I'll close off the thread. No point in there being back and forth on the same point!