Is our game too physical?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-coach-michael-beale-makes-16266655.amp?__twitter_impression=true

I know it’s a Sevco coach but I think his point is valid. The game here is a lot more physical than other leagues and I think it hurts us when we play in Europe.


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[Keith_M]

I think it is.

Some games I've attended have seemed more like wrestling matches, in particular when playing Hearts, Killie, Aberdeen and, more recently, games against The Rangers.

[JimBHibees]

I think it is.

Some games I've attended have seemed more like wrestling matches, in particular when playing Hearts, Killie, Aberdeen and, more recently, games against The Rangers.

Definitely is IMO the assaults that some teams get away with are ridiculous. Certainly doesnt improve the entertainment when some teams rotationally foul and players are given 3 or 4 blatant fouls before getting a yellow. The skillful ball players need more protection. Hearts / Aberdeen and Motherwell last couple of season this season not so much are the worst offenders.

[lyonhibs]

Rich coming from a Rangers coach with Flanagan doing his best effort to rearrange Scott Brown's facial features just yesterday.

[JimBHibees]

Rich coming from a Rangers coach with Flanagan doing his best effort to rearrange Scott Brown's facial features just yesterday.

And their disciplinary record this season which should have been worse also.

[Ozyhibby]

Rich coming from a Rangers coach with Flanagan doing his best effort to rearrange Scott Brown's facial features just yesterday.

They have a discipline problem with individual players doing really stupid things but their style of play is not overly rough like Hearts or Aberdeen.


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[Billy Whizz]

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-coach-michael-beale-makes-16266655.amp?__twitter_impression=true

I know it’s a Sevco coach but I think his point is valid. The game here is a lot more physical than other leagues and I think it hurts us when we play in Europe.


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I actually think Brendan Rodgers Celtic played technical football

[JimBHibees]

They have a discipline problem with individual players doing really stupid things but their style of play is not overly rough like Hearts or Aberdeen.


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Agree with that at least they do try and play passing football which is actually good to watch quick passing and pace.

Just read the article and to me he is absolutely spot on.

[007]

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-coach-michael-beale-makes-16266655.amp?__twitter_impression=true

I know it’s a Sevco coach but I think his point is valid. The game here is a lot more physical than other leagues and I think it hurts us when we play in Europe.


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He is correct. We have an overly physical league due to referees allowing that style of play to go unpunished.

[HoboHarry]

He is correct. We have an overly physical league due to referees allowing that style of play to go unpunished.
The referees are subject to supervision in Scotland just like they are elsewhere and they carry out instructions and directives - the problem lies at the feet of John Fleming, not individual referees. He could change it if he wanted to with the backing/insistence of the clubs but I wouldn't be holding my breath....

[Smartie]

They have a discipline problem with individual players doing really stupid things but their style of play is not overly rough like Hearts or Aberdeen.


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Totally agree with this.

There has been a lot of noise and silliness surrounding our games with Sevco over the past few years but we've actually had some really good technical games of football with them.

Even some of the "weaker" teams try to play football in the SPFL so I don't think this is a fair blanket comment to make.

Hearts and Aberdeen are a blight on the league and it is shameful what they are allowed to get away with. Decent refereeing would clamp down on them.

That, and ditching the plastic pitches would do a lot for our game.

[SChibs]

Yes. It's a nationwide problem imo. We like to focus on the physical attributes of players rather than their technical ability. We are so far behind other nations in terms of skill it's quite embarrassing.

[Ryan91]

Fans often wonder why Scotland struggles on the international stage when the likes of Iceland are managing to qualify for major tournaments. Our game suffers because there seems to be a bigger focus on physicality and out muscling your opponent rather than a focus on the technical aspect of the game, and as long as we continue to focus on that, we're going to struggle in International competition.

So yes, our game is too physical, and if the SFA and everyone else want us to start qualifying for major tournaments, they need to deter teams from trying to kick their opponent off the park if they choose a more technical style of play.

[Smartie]

I don't think it helps when so much is made of picking players for the national side who can defend set pieces rather than play football.

Genetics eh?

[Monktonhall 7]

The problem lies with the SFA and therefore the Referees. I'm sure most Hibs fans, like me want,to watch decent standards of football. Passing, movement, pace. Unfortunately the SFA allow some teams to kick, wrestle and elbow their way through a match. The fact that 2 of these teams regularly feature in our top 6 means that other teams need to adopt a more physical approach to compete. It makes Scottish Football a joke imo.

[Smartie]

The problem lies with the SFA and therefore the Referees. I'm sure most Hibs fans, like me want,to watch decent standards of football. Passing, movement, pace. Unfortunately the SFA allow some teams to kick, wrestle and elbow their way through a match. The fact that 2 of these teams regularly feature in our top 6 means that other teams need to adopt a more physical approach to compete. It makes Scottish Football a joke imo.

I think it is a bit unfair to focus on the negatives.

Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and Killie all play good football and there have been some brilliant games between these sides.

Some of the bottom 6 sides try to play good football too. There will probably be more football played in the Championship now we're not in it (less teams sticking every man behind the ball). These clubs don't have a great deal of cash but still try to play.

I don't think Hearts and Aberdeen (arguably Livingston) should represent Scottish football more than all the other teams put together.

[The Harp Awakes]

Certain teams are over physical. Watched the St Mirren v Hamilton game last night and thought Hamilton were a bunch of thugs.

Would be great to see them getting relegated but if Inverness come up they'll be just as thuggish.

Referees need to clamp down on these teams but they don't. Hearts have got away with it for years. If they hadn't they might have been forced to try and play some football.

[Bostonhibby]

Take jellyfish McGregor out and the problem lessens immediately.

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[Phil MaGlass]

If we focused more on a more passing, less thuggery type of game our football might improve, as someone mentioned some teams in Scotland actually try to play football, while other teams (Dons/Hertz) dont, it stifles our game. the Dutch game encourages football, not always nice to watch, but, their game benefits from it. As can be seen with the amount of their players in other Euro leagues. Maybe just maybe if we had league expansion, without the threat of relegation for a year or so, clubs might be more willing to play football, we could have a plan in place for the future of the Scottish game.

[Ozyhibby]

If we focused more on a more passing, less thuggery type of game our football might improve, as someone mentioned some teams in Scotland actually try to play football, while other teams (Dons/Hertz) dont, it stifles our game. the Dutch game encourages football, not always nice to watch, but, their game benefits from it. As can be seen with the amount of their players in other Euro leagues. Maybe just maybe if we had league expansion, without the threat of relegation for a year or so, clubs might be more willing to play football, we could have a plan in place for the future of the Scottish game.

We just need refs to ref the game the way it is reffed everywhere else. Teams will then adapt to the new reality.
This is just another area the SFA are failing in.


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[Monktonhall 7]

I think it is a bit unfair to focus on the negatives.

Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and Killie all play good football and there have been some brilliant games between these sides.

Some of the bottom 6 sides try to play good football too. There will probably be more football played in the Championship now we're not in it (less teams sticking every man behind the ball). These clubs don't have a great deal of cash but still try to play.

I don't think Hearts and Aberdeen (arguably Livingston) should represent Scottish football more than all the other teams put together.

My point is that if Referees clamped down on the rotational fouling by these teams, then they may decide that they need to change tactic. I think the guy Clare committed at least 4 deliberate pull backs on our players in the recent game at ER, but was only booked once. Heckingbottom commented at the POTY that only in Scotland can you get away with the tactics employed by our neighbours. The product would be vastly improved if Referees did their jobs properly.

[Smartie]

My point is that if Referees clamped down on the rotational fouling by these teams, then they may decide that they need to change tactic. I think the guy Clare committed at least 4 deliberate pull backs on our players in the recent game at ER, but was only booked once. Heckingbottom commented at the POTY that only in Scotland can you get away with the tactics employed by our neighbours. The product would be vastly improved if Referees did their jobs properly.

I agree with every word of this but your previous post ended with "it makes Scottish football a joke".

We have a few overly-physical sides but I don't think our game as a whole is overly physical or a joke.



What can be done about rotational fouling? I often know early on in a game against Aberdeen or Hearts if we're going to get a result. If the referee gets the yellow card out when the first bookable offence is made then we're normally ok. If the referee "is sensible, keeps his cards in his pocket, doesn't ruin the game" (insert Scottish football cliche of choice here) then we know there is going to be little football and we're going to be hoofed out of our stride. That for me is what could be done to improve the game most in this area. Book players that deserve bookings and send them off if they do it again.

[JimBHibees]

We just need refs to ref the game the way it is reffed everywhere else. Teams will then adapt to the new reality.
This is just another area the SFA are failing in.


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Totally agree. No wonder we dont qualify for tournaments there is IMO a clear connection between the two. To have an ex international manager playing the way Hearts play personally think is scandalous. It is a putrid style of football and while it will get wins what does it do for the overall good of the team or player.

[JimBHibees]

My point is that if Referees clamped down on the rotational fouling by these teams, then they may decide that they need to change tactic. I think the guy Clare committed at least 4 deliberate pull backs on our players in the recent game at ER, but was only booked once. Heckingbottom commented at the POTY that only in Scotland can you get away with the tactics employed by our neighbours. The product would be vastly improved if Referees did their jobs properly.

He also made a comment just after he was in the door that tackles in our league you would not get away with in the English championship which from outside looking in appears to be a physical league. Something needs to change.

[Smartie]

He also made a comment just after he was in the door that tackles in our league you would not get away with in the English championship which from outside looking in appears to be a physical league. Something needs to change.

It may have come from our own manager but that comment is utter nonsense.

No way is our league more physical than the Championship. That league is all about the brawn.

We have a few overly physical teams and refs can be weak. The same inconsistencies can occur there.

[HoboHarry]

It may have come from our own manager but that comment is utter nonsense.

No way is our league more physical than the Championship. That league is all about the brawn.

We have a few overly physical teams and refs can be weak. The same inconsistencies can occur there.
Why would he have made the comment then if he didn't believe it?

[Smartie]

Why would he have made the comment then if he didn't believe it?

He believes it.

I disagree.

Matter of opinion.

[The_Exile]

When youth teams say to the most talented kids "sorry wee man, yer a great player but yer no big/strong enough" for the past 30/40 years and with that kind of attitude still going on, Scotland will continue their downward trend to the very bottom of world fitba. The odd diamond will come through of course but we're ***** because we've got a ***** attitude to the bairns.

[Ozyhibby]

He believes it.

I disagree.

Matter of opinion.

I’m with Heckingbottom. Yes they have some massive players in that league and they do tend to be very fit I still think it’s more technical.


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[Northernhibee]

If referees would referee the game consistently it may change. The amount of niggly fouls, wrestling in the box at corners and downright thuggery that goes unpunished is shameful.

[Smartie]

I’m with Heckingbottom. Yes they have some massive players in that league and they do tend to be very fit I still think it’s more technical.


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It is more technical, simply based on the fact that they have more money to spend on more technical players, but it is still a league that is all about being strong, big and able to run lots. Sometimes players go there from Scotland and thrive (normally if they are about the physical attributes) and sometimes they struggle.

Other than a small handful of teams who choose to play a particular way I don't think our league is any more physical, if anything it is less so.

And if Levein and McInnes left to work elsewhere then I don't think this would even be a conversation worth having.

[basehibby]

Undoubtably our game is allowed to be too physical and it hurts our game both in Europe and Internationally.

Quite simply, refs allow far too many niggly fouls to go unpunished (never mind blatant assaults). Because of this, managers will tend to recruit and select bruisers as opposed to skillful ball players because they know that the bruisers are not punished and are allowed to prosper. This obviously results in a paucity of genuine talent making the breakthrough and we end up with early european exits and a crap international team.

[JimBHibees]

It may have come from our own manager but that comment is utter nonsense.

No way is our league more physical than the Championship. That league is all about the brawn.

We have a few overly physical teams and refs can be weak. The same inconsistencies can occur there.

He said tackles which were not punished in the Scottish league would be punished in the English championship he was talking about the refereeing of games.

[where'stheslope]

Biggest problem in my eyes is the fact that when referees have a bad game there is no punishment given out to them?
Week after week you see the same niggles and the same tackles going in, pushing and pulling in the box at corners and free kicks!!
Yet we got penalised at the week end, if the referee saw something that no one else did then fine, but the next day Flanningan gets booked and no penalty given????
The referees have got to be held responsible for their actions, the same way that players and managers do!!!!!

[Speedway]

I’m not sure I want to move to EPL style football which is fast becoming a non contact sport/diving competition

[JimBHibees]

I’m not sure I want to move to EPL style football which is fast becoming a non contact sport/diving competition

I agree to an extent there is a balance though and poor tackles need to be punished more while also allowing skilful players to play.

[HoboHarry]

I’m not sure I want to move to EPL style football which is fast becoming a non contact sport/diving competition
I do, I want to see more of a passing game because players have that extra split second of knowing they aren't about to get hoofed into the air. Not to mention that we can't really complain that major sponsors won't pay us big bucks when the product is of the industrial variety......

[patlowe]

A funny quirk of our game is that we are seemingly wedded to the idea of a physical, 'up and at em' style but we do not produce players that match that style of play. England (and many other nations) are on a different planet from Scotland physically, both domestically and internationally.

[heretoday]

The game's gone a bit soft. I used to like the old gutsy stuff with tackles going in and players getting up and limping away. Watch videos of the 70s and see.
The worst thing is watching a game on a plastic pitch and the slightest touch leads to a free kick. Awful.

[ShetlandHibby]

Dont agree that hearts and Aberdeen are to blame for Scottish football being poor. Yes they’re big and physical but we have some big boys that like to mix it. Bartley, Milligan, Hanlon, mcgregor, Stevenson all put the boot in. Everyone wants to see nice fitba but good players cost a lot money and teams in Scotland don’t have it