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PatHead
07-05-2019, 06:58 AM
BBC reporting we could move to a 12 team Premiership after next season. Initially thought it was not a bad idea until I noticed that 2 colt teams would be added to the league. Wonder where they will come from?

Fed up with us all pandering to the old firm.

CallumLaidlaw
07-05-2019, 07:00 AM
Do you mean championship?


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The Leith Dutch
07-05-2019, 07:05 AM
BBC reporting we could move to a 12 team Premiership after next season. Initially thought it was not a bad idea until I noticed that 2 colt teams would be added to the league. Wonder where they will come from?

Fed up with us all pandering to the old firm.

Assuming you mean championship but completely agree on the colt teams crap.
Last thing I want is those vile clubs going to Engerland and thinking they can still but titles and cups in Scotland too.

Scottish football would actually be quite interesting without two teams whose budget guarantees them the top two places in the league.

Diclonius
07-05-2019, 07:17 AM
Why should two particular clubs get colt teams and the rest of us get **** all?

hfc rd
07-05-2019, 07:24 AM
BBC reporting we could move to a 12 team Premiership after next season. Initially thought it was not a bad idea until I noticed that 2 colt teams would be added to the league. Wonder where they will come from?

Fed up with us all pandering to the old firm.


Do we not already have a 12 team Premiership?

PatHead
07-05-2019, 07:27 AM
Do we not already have a 12 team Premiership?

Sorry meant championship. Can someone change the title for me?

It's a good idea as the likes of Falkirk or Raith should not be down in the third league. It could finish them as clubs, certainly full time.

neil7908
07-05-2019, 07:35 AM
Happy enough with 12 teams in the Championship but if this is used to parachute in 2 colt teams from the OF it will be disgrace

HibeeHibernian4
07-05-2019, 07:38 AM
Why should two particular clubs get colt teams and the rest of us get **** all?

The fundamental point is that nobody should get colt teams. They are a bad idea and tradition in football is good. We should not throw nearly 130 years of Scottish league football into a skip for the sake of player development. And that's before we even get into the debate of colt teams actually improving players, at all.

Basically, get this idea to **** because it's just another trojan horse that they're using to bring colt teams in.

Waxy
07-05-2019, 07:38 AM
Stuff this colts crap. Your just disadvantaging teams like East kilbride/Spartans from the league.It ruins other leagues.

seanshow
07-05-2019, 08:28 AM
They had a vote on this not so long ago and it was rejected, trying to disguise it as something else is not going to change anything.

How about they make the proposal a 10 colt team expansion to 52 teams and maybe it'll be taken seriously.

Give most of the top tier clubs a chance to give their young players competitive games every week, create money from a second crowd income etc.

.. instead of just 2 from glasgow... Load of bullocks

Joe6-2
07-05-2019, 08:59 AM
I’m sick to the back teeth of the pampering that pair get!

Ringothedog
07-05-2019, 09:05 AM
Historically there was a division C that had reserve teams in it, although if they won the league they couldn’t be promoted, I think it’s a great idea if all teams are given the opportunity to put a reserve team in the league, it could also be split into a North and South. Our manager has already mentioned that our reserve league is poor and doesn’t prepare players for the 1st team

Brightside
07-05-2019, 09:27 AM
There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2? 100 fans and a 2 whippets?

HibeeHibernian4
07-05-2019, 09:43 AM
There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2? 100 fans and a 2 whippets?

What's the point of Hibs? Don't be dismissive and disrespectful of clubs with 100+ years of history. Tradition is good and very little about our league should change.

sambajustice
07-05-2019, 10:09 AM
There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2? 100 fans and a 2 whippets?

Agree.

These teams should play in amateur leagues or merge. There should be two top national divisions then everything after that should be regionalised and put in a pyramid.

Theoretically, Skipton Reserves playing in the 19th tier of English football in the Craven and District amateur league could get up to the EPL.

If we have an elite 24 - 32 teams where more money can be generated surely it would then filter down to the grassroots.

Who is wanting to sponsor Cowdenbeath away at Elgin on pissing down Wednesday night??

Teams like Annan playing Montrose, it probably costs the clubs more to travel to these games than money they generate from them

bingo70
07-05-2019, 10:27 AM
What's the point of Hibs? Don't be dismissive and disrespectful of clubs with 100+ years of history. Tradition is good and very little about our league should change.

Those clubs could still exist though and play in a Competitive league every season, would effectively just be non-league. A more localised fixture list may even help some of these clubs.

ballengeich
07-05-2019, 10:49 AM
Agree.



If we have an elite 24 - 32 teams where more money can be generated surely it would then filter down to the grassroots.




There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2?

I don't see how reducing the number of teams in the SPFL would make any significant financial impact on the bigger clubs. Prize money for League 2 this season is about £600,000. Move these clubs into non-league and that gives about £20,000 per club extra for the 32 remaining. That's not even one extra squad player.

superfurryhibby
07-05-2019, 11:01 AM
What's the point of Hibs? Don't be dismissive and disrespectful of clubs with 100+ years of history. Tradition is good and very little about our league should change.

Tradition is why Scottish football is struggling so much.

Traditional incompetence from our game’s custodians.

Traditional bias towards the entrenched refereeing culture which means only refs from a small number of local associations make the grade.

Traditional favouritism towards the Old Firm has helped maintain their dominance of our game.

There are too many team, not enough fans and not enough money to justify the current league set up. It should be regionalised, with opportunities to play your way into the second pro league.

I like the history associated with our game, but it’s time we woke up to the reality of where it’s at now. We are a low status footballing backwater. Our game’s culture desperately needs to change. We seem to lack the vision, as fans, and within boardrooms and amongst office bearers to make it happen.

Smartie
07-05-2019, 11:01 AM
What's the point of Hibs? Don't be dismissive and disrespectful of clubs with 100+ years of history. Tradition is good and very little about our league should change.

I've never really understood the obsession we have in this country with the number of teams we have in each league, as if getting this right would lead to global domination for Scotland.

It's miles down my list of priorities.

Our small clubs are often very stable and very well-run - hence the fact that they've been around for ever. They are an example to the poor performance and bad management of some of Scotland's biggest clubs.

I don't know why we should be looking to punish them?

In improving Scottish football I'd be starting with a few biggies - marketing our game properly in order raise profile and revenue, getting a national team manager who gets players wanting to play for the national side and doing so to the best of their ability when selected, and by getting as many youngsters as possible playing the game regularly.

davhibby
07-05-2019, 11:09 AM
Always fans of the bigger clubs that dismiss smaller clubs and it's pretty embarrassing to see. Colt teams should never be allowed near the pro leagues as no fans of a lower league club wants to watch reserves play their team. The best way to restructure things imo would be to make the Championship and League 1 a bit bigger and then have the regional leagues(Lowland league or similar) in below that.

Waxy
07-05-2019, 11:24 AM
It would also just give Celtic and Rangers even more money.Its already a really really really really unlevel playing field as it is.

Lmc2105
07-05-2019, 11:28 AM
You have to wonder what the point in all the project brave stuff was for?! what does Malky Mackay actually do what has been achieved?! am i not right in saying that this was brought into ensure that we have some of the best academies in the country and that Reserve football was also suppose to help?!

The article out today just sums it all up for me, Looking after the big two development teams and having the advantage of playing against the teams that we currently send our youth players out to gain experience. The only difference is that they all get to play with each other and gel as a team which should lead to more being promoted to the first team. This will never happen at Rangers and Celtic as lets be honest how many make it through to the first team?!

The likes of Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell have some excellent youths coming through and they have benefited from sending players out to the lower league teams and gaining some brilliant experience some of which are now established first team players.

Hibs - Porteous - Edinburgh City
Hearts - Zanatta - Alloa
Motherwell - Hastie (think it was Alloa)
Aberdeen - Mckenna - Ayr

Only a few that i can think off over the last few years that have benefited by playing lower league football, but many more that i have missed. It's simple if Colt teams can't be used for all benefits then the whole idea should be scrapped for consistency and not keeping the big two at an advantage anymore than what they have currently.

danhibees1875
07-05-2019, 11:28 AM
There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2? 100 fans and a 2 whippets?

I'd agree that we have too many teams in the professional league set up. To be clear, I'd have a regionalised pyrimid league set up below the professional league, but cutting it to 2 divisions seems a reasonable step.

The localised structure should help clubs save on costs and having more teams vying for promotion to a new, larger championship would increase interest in their games and have fresher teams in the championship each year playing against higher calibre teams each week and bringing in more money.

In theory it could be done whilst keeping the 12 team structure in the Premiership.

Wakeyhibee
07-05-2019, 11:34 AM
There's always a knee jerk reaction to a big club getting relegated.

Promotion/relegation should be on merit only. Colt teams should never get anywhere near the pro leagues.

If you wanna protect the bigger teams in the Prem and the mid ranking teams in the championship, then make the top 2 leagues bigger and forfeit some of the TV money based around the OF.

And make any play offs even. Champ to Prem is ridiculous for the 3rd/4th placed teams.

But we all know none of this will happen.

malcolm
07-05-2019, 11:35 AM
Could have a colt league.. but could call it something novel like a reserve league😉

I don’t agree with the idea of colts in any real league and if it happens there should be a rule to ensure a club only gets one dollop of prize money and even better teams should have to choose the lowers placed team for the first 2 years as a condition of having a colt team in the league 😁

MyJo
07-05-2019, 11:44 AM
There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2? 100 fans and a 2 whippets?

Been saying this for years but its a no goer under the current administration because it means only two old firm games a season rather than four and that's all that matters to them.

My preference would be for:

16 team premiership, 16 team championship.
League cup changed to have these 32 teams playing in a champions league format competition.

Pyramid system below this with regionalised Highland/Lowland leagues then North/South/East West of Scotland leagues and Challenge Cup competition.

Colt teams could be permitted to compete below Championship level and in the Challenge Cup only.

KeithTheHibby
07-05-2019, 12:01 PM
Historically there was a division C that had reserve teams in it, although if they won the league they couldn’t be promoted, I think it’s a great idea if all teams are given the opportunity to put a reserve team in the league, it could also be split into a North and South. Our manager has already mentioned that our reserve league is poor and doesn’t prepare players for the 1st team

Having a Hibs colt team would also ensure we wouldn't need to send players out on loan to lower league teams as we would be competing amongst them.

Brightside
07-05-2019, 12:09 PM
What's the point of Hibs? Don't be dismissive and disrespectful of clubs with 100+ years of history. Tradition is good and very little about our league should change.

There are far too many teams. We are a tiny nation dictated by tradition. Its why we are basically shiyte at football!

chippy
07-05-2019, 12:15 PM
Been saying this for years but its a no goer under the current administration because it means only two old firm games a season rather than four and that's all that matters to them.

My preference would be for:

16 team premiership, 16 team championship.
League cup changed to have these 32 teams playing in a champions league format competition.

Pyramid system below this with regionalised Highland/Lowland leagues then North/South/East West of Scotland leagues and Challenge Cup competition.

Colt teams could be permitted to compete below Championship level and in the Challenge Cup only.
Mostly agree with this but would add Belgian/Danish end season splits which gets 4 old firm games and often 4 Edinburgh Derbys. I think colt teams for all full time premier clubs is great idea. Will help speed up development of loads of Scots players can only be good for our game and reduces need for imports. I’d let colts teams rise to Championship level but that’s it for same reasons as above.

AltheHibby
07-05-2019, 12:16 PM
2 leagues of 20 and 22 would be best. Play each other twice and create a league that allows young players a chance, potentially helping the national team.

Or 2 leagues of 20 each and 1 league of 4:2 bigot teams and 2 bigot colt teams. 😁

ancient hibee
07-05-2019, 12:22 PM
Funny isn’t it.Our only world class player got his chance because he played for the type of club that people want to do away with.It’s not the small clubs that are badly run and go bust is it.

Deansy
07-05-2019, 12:32 PM
You'd think we'd all know by now that any proposed changes to 'improve our game', first and foremost, have been devised with what benefits it can offer the 'Old S**m' ??. If any of the rest of the clubs could benefit there's very little chance any proposed changes would even make it past the the first stage of the process !

Since452
07-05-2019, 12:39 PM
Hate saying it but feel myself getting closer to just chucking Scottish football. Total farce. Hibs will prevent me from ever doing it but it's tough going when the whole set up is for the benefit of two clubs.

KWJ
07-05-2019, 12:44 PM
I've never really understood the obsession we have in this country with the number of teams we have in each league, as if getting this right would lead to global domination for Scotland.

It's miles down my list of priorities.

Our small clubs are often very stable and very well-run - hence the fact that they've been around for ever. They are an example to the poor performance and bad management of some of Scotland's biggest clubs.

I don't know why we should be looking to punish them?

In improving Scottish football I'd be starting with a few biggies - marketing our game properly in order raise profile and revenue, getting a national team manager who gets players wanting to play for the national side and doing so to the best of their ability when selected, and by getting as many youngsters as possible playing the game regularly.

Agree 100%

HibeeHibernian4
07-05-2019, 01:17 PM
Tradition is why Scottish football is struggling so much.

Traditional incompetence from our game’s custodians.

Traditional bias towards the entrenched refereeing culture which means only refs from a small number of local associations make the grade.

Traditional favouritism towards the Old Firm has helped maintain their dominance of our game.

There are too many team, not enough fans and not enough money to justify the current league set up. It should be regionalised, with opportunities to play your way into the second pro league.

I like the history associated with our game, but it’s time we woke up to the reality of where it’s at now. We are a low status footballing backwater. Our game’s culture desperately needs to change. We seem to lack the vision, as fans, and within boardrooms and amongst office bearers to make it happen.

Why does our league have to be 'good'?

Was it set up with intention of being a 'good' league? One of the 'good' leagues in Europe?

Or was it actually just a bit of formalisation for local lads having a kickabout against another team of local lads?

This just smacks of New Labour-type, aspirational guff, quite frankly. So what if we're a backwater (we're not, by the way, but it wouldn't matter if we were)?

Scottish football isn't 'struggling' because that's an irrelevant metric to judge it on.

Our teams turning up to fulfil their fixtures? Yes. Do fans still attend games? Yes, although more would if we lowered prices.

Scottish football is performing exactly as it should, it is running leagues for the clubs it has always has had, and will hopefully continue that way until life on earth ceases to exist.

Are you really going to break the hearts of 2-500 ardent lower league fans at each club by telling them "sorry lads, you know that 130 years of history you have? we're tossing it away because I think Scottish football isn't doing well enough".

Wake up mate, look at the money in football these days, we need to be doing everything we can to move away from that as quickly as possible, not trying to swim in its stream.

Cut the prices, cut the wages, become the counter culture and Scottish football will 'thrive' as you so desperately want it to.

neil7908
07-05-2019, 01:36 PM
There are far too many teams. We are a tiny nation dictated by tradition. Its why we are basically shiyte at football!

By that logic, should we not be merging with Hearts, Dundee with Dundee United etc? Then we might actually win the league and have a shot of getting further in Europe.

I think its very dangerous to dismiss smaller teams in this way. Scottish football gets decent crowds for a country of 5m. The likes of Alloa, Montrose etc are not what is holding the game back. Focus for me must be the two teams at the top who suck all the life out of our game.

Brightside
07-05-2019, 01:42 PM
By that logic, should we not be merging with Hearts, Dundee with Dundee United etc? Then we might actually win the league and have a shot of getting further in Europe.

I think its very dangerous to dismiss smaller teams in this way. Scottish football gets decent crowds for a country of 5m. The likes of Alloa, Montrose etc are not what is holding the game back. Focus for me must be the two teams at the top who suck all the life out of our game.

Yes we should. Dundee 100% Edinburgh probably has the population for 2 main teams.

Wakeyhibee
07-05-2019, 02:15 PM
Yes we should. Dundee 100% Edinburgh probably has the population for 2 main teams.

Not a very big league though. 6 - 8 teams unless you have Ayrshire, Lanarkshire and Central Belt United

Ozyhibby
07-05-2019, 02:20 PM
This is a perfect opportunity for the fans reps to let us know the clubs position on this? Do we support the old firm building in yet more advantage for themselves?


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Ozyhibby
07-05-2019, 02:24 PM
What's the point of Hibs? Don't be dismissive and disrespectful of clubs with 100+ years of history. Tradition is good and very little about our league should change.

They are subsidised by Hibs though. They should be able to stand on their own two feet.


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hfc rd
07-05-2019, 04:35 PM
If this is to give the OF the chance to field colt teams in the professional leagues (which I think it is) then I am dead against it. How much more do they have to pander to the OF to make them even more stronger than the rest?

I’d love to see an expansion to the top flight but I know that is never going to be on the agenda due to the prospect of losing 2 extra OF fixtures a season.

Smartie
07-05-2019, 05:12 PM
They are subsidised by Hibs though. They should be able to stand on their own two feet.


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Which clubs cannot stand on their two feet and need to be subsidised by Hibs?

Rather than the smaller Scottish clubs (who have a track record going back a long time of being able to live within their means) we should save our anger for those who have on occasion proven themselves unable to do so.

Diclonius
07-05-2019, 06:02 PM
John Robertson talking sense on Sportsound, two 14 team leagues and regional divisions below. SPFL spokesman immediately says no to regional leagues, total joke.

Michael
07-05-2019, 06:22 PM
John Robertson talking sense on Sportsound, two 14 team leagues and regional divisions below. SPFL spokesman immediately says no to regional leagues, total joke.

What's his reason? Regional leagues are common sense for that level.

Iggy Pope
07-05-2019, 06:28 PM
There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2? 100 fans and a 2 whippets?

Supremacist capitalist claptrap. And nobody takes whippets to a game outside of Yorkshire. Barnstoneworth I think was the last recorded example. And a capital S for Scotland next time please.

Joe6-2
07-05-2019, 06:34 PM
John Robertson talking sense on Sportsound, two 14 team leagues and regional divisions below. SPFL spokesman immediately says no to regional leagues, total joke.

And there is the problem!

Pretty Boy
07-05-2019, 06:43 PM
I'm not keen on the idea of a significantly expanded top flight.

For all the stick it gets the split ensures, generally speaking, more teams are playing games that matter until later in the season. An 18 or 20 team top league would see some clubs playing meaningless games from about late February. Arguably good for playing a couple of youngsters in nominally competitive games but not so good for giving people an incentive to attend games. I also don't like the idea we should dictate to fans of Arbroath, Forfar, Brechin and Montrose, as examples, that their clubs aren't important so they either support Dundee or Aberdeen or stop following football altogether. The couple of hundred people that follow those teams regularly care as much about their team as I care about Hibs. There's also a financial argument. Any less than 18 teams and the number of games doesn't really work. The argument in favour of 14 teams was always that a LC group structure could make up the shortfall but recent years have shown that simply won't happen.

Some form of regionalisation seems a decent idea in theory but I'm unsure how it would work in practice. In the lower leagues there are 21 teams from Dundee or south and only 9 from north of that point so a viable highland/lowland structure doesn't exist unless you bring in all the Highland and lowland league teams which then compromises the pyramid people argued in favour of for years. How would that impact the East of Scotland leagues which feed into the Lowland league for example? If you include all those teams you suddenly have 75 teams (outwith 2 14 team top leagues) to regionalise and structure in a competitive way.

I think this is one of those situations in which, contrary to popular opinion, there is no easy answer.

Ryan91
07-05-2019, 07:27 PM
John Robertson talking sense on Sportsound, two 14 team leagues and regional divisions below. SPFL spokesman immediately says no to regional leagues, total joke.

Doing that doesn't benefit the ugly sisters, so of course it's rejected out of hand.

jgl07
07-05-2019, 07:38 PM
Agree.

These teams should play in amateur leagues or merge. There should be two top national divisions then everything after that should be regionalised and put in a pyramid.

So Hibs merge with Hearts, Celtic with Sevco, Dundee with United.

I agree with the Pyramid. The crackpot ideas expressed should be buried in one.

greenlex
07-05-2019, 07:45 PM
There should be two divisions of 16 and thats it. Far far too many teams in scotland. Fan bases are far too diluted for teams to make money from football and we dont make enough in TV rights. So whats the point of Div 1 and Div 2? 100 fans and a 2 whippets?
I agree there should be two “senior” leagues but a pyramid system below that. A lot of these smaller clubs are well run and even the juniors are well run. In fact louts of the bigger junior clubs are now in fact so called senior clubs now competing in the lower leagues east of Scotland etc. The pyramid system as is will see the Cowdenbeaths etc of this world slide into even lower tiers in any case.
As stated on other threads the likes of Cove Rangers and Kelly Hearts have thrown some money at it. Bonnyrigg Rose are now lowland league too.

allezsauzee
07-05-2019, 07:46 PM
Supremacist capitalist claptrap. And nobody takes whippets to a game outside of Yorkshire. Barnstoneworth I think was the last recorded example. And a capital S for Scotland next time please.

Alternatively a bit of common sense. If you spread the smaller teams thin enough it makes it easier for Celtic and Rangers to dominate

sambajustice
07-05-2019, 07:53 PM
So Hibs merge with Hearts, Celtic with Sevco, Dundee with United.

I agree with the Pyramid. The crackpot ideas expressed should be buried in one.

No idea what this means

bigwheel
07-05-2019, 07:54 PM
A 16 team league would be a disaster for Scotland. There would be around 6 teams each season who will never get relegated nor never get into Europe. There would be so many dead rubber games it would kill our league. Whilst I was very young in the 70s - any reading of it tells us that the 18 team league was killing our game. Wouldn’t be far off that

Whilst far from perfect our 10 team league has almost every game as meaningful right to the end - makes it an interesting league

Actually surprised they are changing the championship too as this season it’s been amazing. Right up to the end.

Eyrie
07-05-2019, 08:10 PM
Alternatively a bit of common sense. If you spread the smaller teams thin enough it makes it easier for Celtic and Rangers to dominate

The Ugly Sister problem isn't the result of a couple of hundred fans attending Arbroath, Brechin, Forfar and Montrose instead of Dundee or Dundee United.

At least they're supporting their team and not sitting in the pub watching whichever Ugly Sister is on.

Eyrie
07-05-2019, 08:12 PM
One other point has been overlooked about the 12 team Championship. The proposal is that each team will play the others twice at home and twice away for a 44 game season. How are all the extra matches going to be fitted in?

BoomtownHibees
07-05-2019, 08:20 PM
Bonnyrigg Rose are now lowland league too.

Believe it or not, the SFA have rejected their application for a licence to join the Lowland League because they don’t have floodlights. They were due to get installed over the summer

greenlex
07-05-2019, 08:25 PM
Believe it or not, the SFA have rejected their application for a licence to join the Lowland League because they don’t have floodlights. They were due to get installed over the summer
Seriously? That’s outrageous

greenlex
07-05-2019, 08:28 PM
A 16 team league would be a disaster for Scotland. There would be around 6 teams each season who will never get relegated nor never get into Europe. There would be so many dead rubber games it would kill our league. Whilst I was very young in the 70s - any reading of it tells us that the 18 team league was killing our game. Wouldn’t be far off that

Whilst far from perfect our 10 team league has almost every game as meaningful right to the end - makes it an interesting league

Actually surprised they are changing the championship too as this season it’s been amazing. Right up to the end.
An alternative view would be that those games helped blood youngsters. Is it a coincidence that both domestically and internationally Scottish teams abroad fared far better at that time? Our game was arguably far more competitive than it is now. There’s an argument about the quality but it wasn’t dying.

BoomtownHibees
07-05-2019, 08:29 PM
Seriously? That’s outrageous

Part of Bonnyrigg Rose statement below:

As a reminder, we applied for SFA membership on October 26th based on the criteria published in 2018 and the application fee was paid on the same date. November 22nd I received notice from SFA licensing that they would audit the club on December 12th at 10 a.m. At 6 p.m. on December 11th I received notification from SFA licensing of revisions to the SFA criteria for 2019 which now included a provision for the existence of floodlights. On the day of the audit it was confirmed by the licensing officers that despite applying for a license in 2018 (which would have been several months earlier has there not been an embargo in place allowing us to) we would be audited on the 2019 criteria. This gave us approximately 16 hours to ensure floodlights were in place which wasn’t achievable.
Since the time of the audit we submitted a planning application for floodlights & pending a decision from the council we will have them in place for this summer.

Smartie
07-05-2019, 08:33 PM
A 16 team league would be a disaster for Scotland. There would be around 6 teams each season who will never get relegated nor never get into Europe. There would be so many dead rubber games it would kill our league. Whilst I was very young in the 70s - any reading of it tells us that the 18 team league was killing our game. Wouldn’t be far off that

Whilst far from perfect our 10 team league has almost every game as meaningful right to the end - makes it an interesting league

Actually surprised they are changing the championship too as this season it’s been amazing. Right up to the end.

The Championship is in many ways a superb competition.

A decent (well, relatively big) team has been relegated from it and it's not often that you see a team relegated into it bounce straight back up. Any one from half a dozen teams, maybe more, might win it next year. Sometimes well run wee clubs get promoted into it and hold their own, sometimes decent sized poorly run clubs get relegated from it.

The only way this proposal would be even considered would be if it were to somehow benefit the Old Firm.

Ah. Of course.

bigwheel
07-05-2019, 08:35 PM
An alternative view would be that those games helped blood youngsters. Is it a coincidence that both domestically and internationally Scottish teams abroad fared far better at that time? Our game was arguably far more competitive than it is now. There’s an argument about the quality but it wasn’t dying.

There’s many more youngsters playing now ..particularly due to the multi subs of today..don’t see that as a key correlation..the league had ended up very boring ..would happen again

Jones28
07-05-2019, 09:29 PM
One other point has been overlooked about the 12 team Championship. The proposal is that each team will play the others twice at home and twice away for a 44 game season. How are all the extra matches going to be fitted in?

How the hell are they going to fit in 44 matches plus 3 cup competitions?

Bearing in mind it well result in more part time club moving in to the championship if it were to be expanded.

Surely the same format as the premiership is best? 12x3 and then a split of 6?

Eyrie
07-05-2019, 10:08 PM
How the hell are they going to fit in 44 matches plus 3 cup competitions?

Bearing in mind it well result in more part time club moving in to the championship if it were to be expanded.

Surely the same format as the premiership is best? 12x3 and then a split of 6?

44 games was the report I read.

And there was no mention about promotion/relegation with the Premiership. Can you imagine finishing 3rd or 4th and having a further 6 play off games if they kept the current rigged system?

jgl07
08-05-2019, 12:55 AM
How the hell are they going to fit in 44 matches plus 3 cup competitions?

Bearing in mind it well result in more part time club moving in to the championship if it were to be expanded.

Surely the same format as the premiership is best? 12x3 and then a split of 6?

The EFL have a 46 match schedule and seem to manage it. Two of the three divisions have three cup competitions - FA Cup, EFL Cup, and EFL Trophy. Four of the teams involved in each division will have a two or three match play-off schedule.

Portsmouth will play 62 or 63 matches this season, Sunderland will play 61 or 62. Newport will play 60 or 61 matches.

The Championship teams play a few less as they only have two domestic cup competitions. Derby County play 56 or 57 matches while West Brom will play 54 or 55.

In the Premier League things are just as bad with Chelsea likely to play 63 matches (or 62 if they don't make the Europa Final). Manchester City will play 61 and Tottenham 57 or 58.

In the Scottish Premiership, Celtic will play 61 matches, Rangers 58. Hibs will complete 48 despite missing the LC Qualifying Rounds and early defeats in the LC and the SFA Cup.

Jones28
08-05-2019, 03:08 AM
The EFL have a 46 match schedule and seem to manage it. Two of the three divisions have three cup competitions - FA Cup, EFL Cup, and EFL Trophy. Four of the teams involved in each division will have a two or three match play-off schedule.

Portsmouth will play 62 or 63 matches this season, Sunderland will play 61 or 62. Newport will play 60 or 61 matches.

The Championship teams play a few less as they only have two domestic cup competitions. Derby County play 56 or 57 matches while West Brom will play 54 or 55.

In the Premier League things are just as bad with Chelsea likely to play 63 matches (or 62 if they don't make the Europa Final). Manchester City will play 61 and Tottenham 57 or 58.

In the Scottish Premiership, Celtic will play 61 matches, Rangers 58. Hibs will complete 48 despite missing the LC Qualifying Rounds and early defeats in the LC and the SFA Cup.

The teams you mention are all full time, it's fine if you've got the resources to do that.

I'm talking about part time clubs being bumped up into the championship and being expected to cope with a punishing schedule. All it will result in is stagnation where the full time teams are able to keep up with the schedule, any part time clubs are as good as automatically relegated and what has been a competitive and exciting league of late just turns in to a waiting room for a shot at promotion for the full time championship teams.

It's daft.

jgl07
08-05-2019, 10:23 AM
The teams you mention are all full time, it's fine if you've got the resources to do that.

I'm talking about part time clubs being bumped up into the championship and being expected to cope with a punishing schedule. All it will result in is stagnation where the full time teams are able to keep up with the schedule, any part time clubs are as good as automatically relegated and what has been a competitive and exciting league of late just turns in to a waiting room for a shot at promotion for the full time championship teams.

It's daft.

How many part time clubs make it to the Championship and remain competitive?

I do see your point. The solution is probably a larger full-time (18 team) Premiership and the similar sized predominantly part-time Championship with a three-way regional structure (East, West and North) below.

I don't see a great down side to expanding the Premiership. There is not much of a gulf in standards - or level of support - between the likes of Hamilton, St Mirren, Livingston, Dundee, Motherwell, etc. and Ross County, Inverness, Dundee United, Partick Thistle, and Ayr United.

It will never happen because too many clubs are obsessed with matches against the dastardly duo.

Ozyhibby
08-05-2019, 11:01 AM
How many part time clubs make it to the Championship and remain competitive?

I do see your point. The solution is probably a larger full-time (18 team) Premiership and the similar sized predominantly part-time Championship with a three-way regional structure (East, West and North) below.

I don't see a great down side to expanding the Premiership. There is not much of a gulf in standards - or level of support - between the likes of Hamilton, St Mirren, Livingston, Dundee, Motherwell, etc. and Ross County, Inverness, Dundee United, Partick Thistle, and Ayr United.

It will never happen because too many clubs are obsessed with matches against the dastardly duo.

The top two leagues should only be for full time clubs. Problem solved.


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PatHead
08-05-2019, 12:37 PM
The top two leagues should only be for full time clubs. Problem solved.


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With no plastic pitches.

Wakeyhibee
08-05-2019, 01:21 PM
The current set up was to try an stop a trend of falling attendances since the 60s. It created briefly for a decade a competitive league with mostly 4 teams vying for trophies.

However it failed to stop the slump that carried on despite this into the 80s. The reasons have turned out to be mostly social and economic for that time and was another knee jerk reaction after an initial post war boom as a benchmark when it reset a relatively level playing field.

The problems I see is that when The Rangers get back to Europe regularly and the money that brings they will close the gap on Celtic and it will revert to 2 teams leaving the rest by 20 - 30 pts again because of playing 4 times.

The negatives of our system (And there are still positives ie the Championship this year) is that over the last 40 years we've seen our mid ranking teams become near part time, Killie, St John's disappeared for long periods. Patrick, St Mirren, Dundee, Dunfy etc have become yo-yo teams with all the financial challenges that presents. We've had more teams in admin & liquidation in the quest of top flight survival and in 2 cases success during this period.

Scotland is big enough for a larger league, its also too small to have it's better supported mid ranking teams outside the top flight if it is ever gonna promote a healthier competition.

I don't accept the meaningless games argument it's true these games exist but why is it only in the Scottish supporting psyche not to bother going to these games?

There are màny bigger sized leagues, top flight and lower where this doesn't happen. Motherwell and St Johnstones have had nothing to play for in the current set up have their supports collapsed?

People buy STs these days rather than walk up (thats changed over 40 years) and attend games more regularly. Attendances are in a mini boom for quite a few clubs, But I fear we are about to go backwards competition wise in the top flight.

18/20 team top league please. Encourage football not PL survival, give other teams a breathing space to build something instead of boom/bust and play each other twice there's more chance of an upset against the OF and a closer finish at the top.

HibeeHibernian4
08-05-2019, 03:57 PM
If I had to choose any structure, it would be 16 teams splitting into a top and bottom 8. 37 games a season, but far less monotony of playing teams over and over again.

Waxy
08-05-2019, 04:07 PM
Three leagues of 18. Straight 34 game season.Theres enough ambitious club in the lowland/highland and ex juniors now.

number9dream
08-05-2019, 04:38 PM
How the hell are they going to fit in 44 matches plus 3 cup competitions?

Bearing in mind it well result in more part time club moving in to the championship if it were to be expanded.

Surely the same format as the premiership is best? 12x3 and then a split of 6?

Don't forget the play-offs... a marathon season.
If they copied the split and retained the same play-off format some teams at the top end would be playing each other another three times post-split.*
A split, then 11th in Prem v 4th and 2nd v 3rd as play-off semis might be best.

* Actually not any different from current set up - Ayr play ICT six times and it looks like ICT v Dundee Utd will be seven since they met in the cup too.

Sammy7nil
08-05-2019, 06:09 PM
The EFL have a 46 match schedule and seem to manage it. Two of the three divisions have three cup competitions - FA Cup, EFL Cup, and EFL Trophy. Four of the teams involved in each division will have a two or three match play-off schedule.

Portsmouth will play 62 or 63 matches this season, Sunderland will play 61 or 62. Newport will play 60 or 61 matches.

The Championship teams play a few less as they only have two domestic cup competitions. Derby County play 56 or 57 matches while West Brom will play 54 or 55.

In the Premier League things are just as bad with Chelsea likely to play 63 matches (or 62 if they don't make the Europa Final). Manchester City will play 61 and Tottenham 57 or 58.

In the Scottish Premiership, Celtic will play 61 matches, Rangers 58. Hibs will complete 48 despite missing the LC Qualifying Rounds and early defeats in the LC and the SFA Cup.

What size and quality of squads do they have? Are they all full-time with a huge backroom team ?

EI255
08-05-2019, 07:39 PM
Why should two particular clubs get colt teams and the rest of us get **** all?Absolutely!!!!

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jgl07
08-05-2019, 07:56 PM
What size and quality of squads do they have? Are they all full-time with a huge backroom team ?

It depends what level they are at. There will a difference between Derby County and Newport County.

All the EFL Divisions play 46 League Matches as do the National League. Even National North and National South play 42 League matches and they certainly include part time teams.

Jones28
08-05-2019, 08:05 PM
How many part time clubs make it to the Championship and remain competitive?

I do see your point. The solution is probably a larger full-time (18 team) Premiership and the similar sized predominantly part-time Championship with a three-way regional structure (East, West and North) below.

I don't see a great down side to expanding the Premiership. There is not much of a gulf in standards - or level of support - between the likes of Hamilton, St Mirren, Livingston, Dundee, Motherwell, etc. and Ross County, Inverness, Dundee United, Partick Thistle, and Ayr United.

It will never happen because too many clubs are obsessed with matches against the dastardly duo.

Some will, some won't. Brechin accrued 4 points in their single season.

Increasing the size of the premiership would be fine, but it could result in a lot of dead rubber matches in the middle of the table.

It would have to be countered by having significant differences in the prize money.

Jones28
08-05-2019, 08:07 PM
Don't forget the play-offs... a marathon season.
If they copied the split and retained the same play-off format some teams at the top end would be playing each other another three times post-split.*
A split, then 11th in Prem v 4th and 2nd v 3rd as play-off semis might be best.

* Actually not any different from current set up - Ayr play ICT six times and it looks like ICT v Dundee Utd will be seven since they met in the cup too.

I think if it were to split they could do away with the playoffs. A straight 2 up 2 down.