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madhatter
05-05-2019, 05:03 PM
Is it maybe a blessing that our challenge for 4th is over? I am glad Hecky will be able to take a better look at the squad now.

This might be ambitious but I don’t want McNulty next season, I’ve a feeling he’d end up being like Kamberi in 2nd season. In terms of loans, I’d only want us to see about Omeonga.

I think Milligan, Bartley, Gauld, McNulty, Bogdan, Spector, Johnson, Nelom, Agyepong, Bigirimana and Slivka could be leaving in one way or another.

We need to add some youth and energy to the squad, hope we get kit released soon and a few suitable pre-contracts. We need a good pre-season with a reasonable squad already assembled.

Borderhibbie76
05-05-2019, 05:12 PM
Yeah it means a longer pre season without an early Euro start and a chance for Hecky to get a good pre-season and add his players to squad...might well be a good thing

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Pretty Boy
05-05-2019, 05:16 PM
Yeah it means a longer pre season without an early Euro start and a chance for Hecky to get a good pre-season and add his players to squad...might well be a good thing

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Will our pre season be that much longer? We'll have League Cup group games to play now.

We played our 1st European game on 21st July this season, Hearts started their LC campaign 3 days earlier.

lyonhibs
05-05-2019, 05:19 PM
Absolutely not. Can't enter that mentality at all. Hibs should always be striving to finish as high as possible in the league table at the business end of the season, and falling at the last in that pursuit should always be seen as a disappointment.

Heckingbottom has done a great job mind, I'm not downbeat about next season but to have the rest of the season be meaningless from a Hibs perspective is *****, let's not try to sugar coat it otherwise.

Borderhibbie76
05-05-2019, 05:20 PM
Will our pre season be that much longer? We'll have League Cup group games to play now.

We played our 1st European game on 21st July this season, Hearts started their LC campaign 3 days earlier.Probably not but be less testing games I'd imagine ...glorified pre season friendlies

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bingo70
05-05-2019, 05:21 PM
Is it maybe a blessing that our challenge for 4th is over? I am glad Hecky will be able to take a better look at the squad now.

This might be ambitious but I don’t want McNulty next season, I’ve a feeling he’d end up being like Kamberi in 2nd season. In terms of loans, I’d only want us to see about Omeonga.

I think Milligan, Bartley, Gauld, McNulty, Bogdan, Spector, Johnson, Nelom, Agyepong, Bigirimana and Slivka could be leaving in one way or another.

We need to add some youth and energy to the squad, hope we get kit released soon and a few suitable pre-contracts. We need a good pre-season with a reasonable squad already assembled.

McNulty and Kamberi haven’t turned into poor players, both players have just suffered from a lack of creativity behind them.

Both of them with Allan, Boyle and a.n other behind them is a different proposition altogether.

rotherhamrob
05-05-2019, 05:31 PM
McNulty and Kamberi haven’t turned into poor players, both players have just suffered from a lack of creativity behind them.

Both of them with Allan, Boyle and a.n other behind them is a different proposition altogether.

Agreed.
For all his faults it's how much of a difference Boyle makes both as an attacker and an out ball, Allan obviously for his vision and passing.
I honestly believe that we are only a couple of players away from being a really good team.

truehibernian
05-05-2019, 05:33 PM
McNulty and Kamberi haven’t turned into poor players, both players have just suffered from a lack of creativity behind them.

Both of them with Allan, Boyle and a.n other behind them is a different proposition altogether.

He's been a huge miss bingo and I agree, he does bring out the best in others in the forward line and creates chances. He'll be a huge plus having back :aok:

SingaporeHibs
05-05-2019, 05:34 PM
Absolutely not a blessing in the slightest. Euro qualifying brings additional revenue and adds to the selling of the club to potential new players.
Given where we were when PH came in there was more chance of a bottom 6 finish than our late challenge for 4th but what an ending to the season that would have been and a huge lift for everyone.
It’s far from doom and gloom though, we can hopefully continue on for the next couple of games to finish on a high. 5th place finish would be a great achievement relative to where we were in early Feb!
Onwards and upwards but just coming up short isn’t a blessing ever.

ancient hibee
05-05-2019, 05:35 PM
McNulty and Kamberi haven’t turned into poor players, both players have just suffered from a lack of creativity behind them.

Both of them with Allan, Boyle and a.n other behind them is a different proposition altogether.
Absolutely right.McNulty’s control was poor today but the team set up doesn’t help us in the goal scoring stakes.When Boyle is back,getting past the first defender and drawing others toward him things will improve particularly if Allan has retained his passing skills.

madhatter
05-05-2019, 05:37 PM
Absolutely not. Can't enter that mentality at all. Hibs should always be striving to finish as high as possible in the league table at the business end of the season, and falling at the last in that pursuit should always be seen as a disappointment.

Heckingbottom has done a great job mind, I'm not downbeat about next season but to have the rest of the season be meaningless from a Hibs perspective is *****, let's not try to sugar coat it otherwise.

After the 1st half of the season, I think finishing in the top 6 is an achievement. Hecky has overachieved with the squad we have and the time he has had. We’ve got no depth and not enough players who are mobile. Mallan and Milligan must be one of the slowest pairings in centre mid I’ve seen. We can’t create width because we only have 1 fit winger in Horgan.

You can see what he’s trying to do with the pressing but we need more legs and more pace to do it well.

My concern is some of our signings and loans this season suggests the club are becoming a training centre for out of sorts players...too many loans or short term deals that have barely played. Hope that isn’t the case next year. Bigirimana, Nelom, Johnson, Agyepong, Gauld, Spector have possibly collectively played 15 games at most. Only loan that I’ve really rated is Omeonga. McNulty has been ok but has been very poor for a number of games now.

We need to get players in fast. Really annoys me seeing other clubs signing good players on pre-contracts and we end up with a last minute loan just before window closes. That’s two seasons in a row where we’ve had to “fix” the squad in January. Both times being issues in midfield and upfront. Not good enough.

Get most of the squad assembled for early pre-season. Scott Allan is a big boost but we need to strengthen a lot even to achieve the same next year.

we are hibs
05-05-2019, 05:37 PM
Boyle hadn't been all that before injury this season. Although he was playing up top and I think he's better out wide.

truehibernian
05-05-2019, 05:40 PM
Absolutely not a blessing in the slightest. Euro qualifying brings additional revenue and adds to the selling of the club to potential new players.
Given where we were when PH came in there was more chance of a bottom 6 finish than our late challenge for 4th but what an ending to the season that would have been and a huge lift for everyone.
It’s far from doom and gloom though, we can hopefully continue on for the next couple of games to finish on a high. 5th place finish would be a great achievement relative to where we were in early Feb!
Onwards and upwards but just coming up short isn’t a blessing ever.

Depending on how Villa do in the EPL Play-Off games I think we'll get much more additional revenue from the sale of SJM / Villa's possible promotion to the EPL than we would have in a European run SH - we'll get very good money either way or from both. Finishing 5th from where we were under Lennon is a decent achievement and probably the correct one given how well Aberdeen and Killie have played (consistently). The games v Hearts, The Rangers and Celtic will have told PH all he needs to know regards where to strengthen the side.

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 05:45 PM
No way is it better. I can’t see how being out of the race for European qualification, which should be our goal every year, can be be considered a blessing.

madhatter
05-05-2019, 05:49 PM
No way is it better. I can’t see how being out of the race for European qualification, which should be our goal every year, can be be considered a blessing.

Hecky can play players that aren’t normally in the starting lineup to see if they are good enough, if not he can clear them out? Surely that is a blessing, no? Rather than playing his favoured line up striving to get the wins for Europe. Last 2 seasons have felt like we’ve been lurching from season to season. Why are we having to “fix” the squad in January? Will we need to do that again this coming season?

Jones28
05-05-2019, 05:50 PM
It's not, that is diddy club stuff.

bigwheel
05-05-2019, 05:51 PM
Hecky can play players that aren’t normally in the starting lineup to see if they are good enough, if not he can clear them out? Surely that is a blessing, no? Rather than playing his favoured line up striving to get the wins for Europe. Last 2 seasons have felt like we’ve been lurching from season to season. Why are we having to “fix” the squad in January? Will we need to do that again this coming season?

We’ve still got to finish 5th. Above Hearts and
More money for the club is too important to be testing out squad players ...

sambajustice
05-05-2019, 05:51 PM
I'm not sure how soon we release the new strip will help with signings!

MagicSwirlingShip
05-05-2019, 05:52 PM
Give the young lads like Fraser Murray, Mackie & Gullan some game time for the last 2 games.

truehibernian
05-05-2019, 05:54 PM
No way is it better. I can’t see how being out of the race for European qualification, which should be our goal every year, can be be considered a blessing.

Maybe 'blessing in disguise' is the wrong turn of phrase but what the last quarter has done is allow PH time to rate the squad he has inherited, given them a challenge (which for the most part has been very successful) and enlightened him as to who is worth building a team around and keeping. The form has been decent and the players have picked themselves up after the Lennon saga - so the new management team must take a lot of credit for that.

Just hope we get back on the horse and try to win both remaining games so we show we are and can be competitive.

madhatter
05-05-2019, 05:57 PM
We’ve still got to finish 5th. Above Hearts and
More money for the club is too important to be testing out squad players ...

Pretty sure we can finish 5th while testing the squad. Gauld playing against Rangers was testing the squad. His match fitness clearly wasn’t there but was played anyway.

cabbageandribs1875
05-05-2019, 06:01 PM
i think it's 120k the difference between 5th and 6th....could pay one/two contracts for a season, every little helps

bigwheel
05-05-2019, 06:03 PM
Pretty sure we can finish 5th while testing the squad. Gauld playing against Rangers was testing the squad. His match fitness clearly wasn’t there but was played anyway.

And what if playing some fringe players means we end up 6th and behind Hearts. Not Something to mess about with. Get 3 more points and we will be fine.

Tbh. Other than Gauld I’m Pretty sure they’ve seen enough of the players to know who the want to keep

madhatter
05-05-2019, 06:03 PM
I'm not sure how soon we release the new strip will help with signings!

Shirt sales? Player reveal with new kit? Beyond that, I’m sure club personnel will be involved in both aspects (kit contracts/manufacturing updates etc. and player contracts and transfer dealings). Better getting one essentially wrapped up and getting money coming in from your customers, no?

We are slow with kit reveal and slow with signings. It is becoming a trend sadly. Don’t mind it being slow but if we get to January again and we are scrambling for a new frontline or midfield then I will be annoyed, like many fans.

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 06:06 PM
Hecky can play players that aren’t normally in the starting lineup to see if they are good enough, if not he can clear them out? Surely that is a blessing, no? Rather than playing his favoured line up striving to get the wins for Europe. Last 2 seasons have felt like we’ve been lurching from season to season. Why are we having to “fix” the squad in January? Will we need to do that again this coming season?

Na there is no blessing as far as I’m concerned.

It might give him a chance to fix the squad so we can try to qualify for Europe next year? Whereas we got ourselves in to a position to be able to do it this year and didn’t.

Not having a go at Heckingbottom by the way, but I don’t see who he is going to learn anything about in games that are meaningless to us. You learn about players when it matters.

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 06:08 PM
i think it's 120k the difference between 5th and 6th....could pay one/two contracts for a season, every little helps

It’ll pay for the CCTV!

madhatter
05-05-2019, 06:10 PM
And what if playing some fringe players means we end up 6th and behind Hearts. Not Something to mess about with. Get 3 more points and we will be fine.

Tbh. Other than Gauld I’m Pretty sure they’ve seen enough of the players to know who the want to keep

Dropping one or two fringe players into our squad shouldn’t mean we are likely to chuck points away. Club are indicating they don’t intend on doing major surgery to squad. If we can’t swap a couple of players out of our starting 11, without a complete collapse, I think club need to reassess summer plans, we need major work then. I think we need 6 good players in minimum and I doubt that will happen, if it does it will be loans.

Since452
05-05-2019, 06:10 PM
I think it is to be honest. Means we should hit the ground running in the league.

cabbageandribs1875
05-05-2019, 06:12 PM
It’ll pay for the CCTV!



good point, the 20k left over can go into LD's pension pot :whistle:

madhatter
05-05-2019, 06:17 PM
Na there is no blessing as far as I’m concerned.

It might give him a chance to fix the squad so we can try to qualify for Europe next year? Whereas we got ourselves in to a position to be able to do it this year and didn’t.

Not having a go at Heckingbottom by the way, but I don’t see who he is going to learn anything about in games that are meaningless to us. You learn about players when it matters.

He can play Mackie, Murray and Gullan. Games might not mean anything to us but they should have professional pride and will be playing against two teams fighting for 3rd place. The senior players would surely be playing for a contract as well?

Some contract talks will have been put on hold until Europe was decided. We know we aren’t in Europe now so I’d imagine certain players will be told they are not getting renewals ASAP. Blessing is club can turn focus to next season and players like Bartley can find a new club rather than being left clubless for next season.

The 90+2
05-05-2019, 06:19 PM
I think it is to be honest. Means we should hit the ground running in the league.

How does that work?

bigwheel
05-05-2019, 06:20 PM
He can play Mackie, Murray and Gullan. Games might not mean anything to us but they should have professional pride and will be playing against two teams fighting for 3rd place. The senior players would surely be playing for a contract as well?

Some contract talks will have been put on hold until Europe was decided. We know we aren’t in Europe now so I’d imagine certain players will be told they are not getting renewals ASAP. Blessing is club can turn focus to next season and players like Bartley can find a new club rather than being left clubless for next season.

Isn’t Gullan on loan at Raith ? He can’t play for us if he is

He knows what Mackie can do. And for me , wont make it as a regular for us ...

Murray fair enough ..he can contribute well

NAE NOOKIE
05-05-2019, 06:22 PM
If it wasn't for the league cup groups the extra rest and chance to build up in pre season friendlies would probably be helpful, but we cant afford to take the league cup lightly, though you would expect us to comfortably qualify out of any group.

As I said on another thread it will be interesting to see what sort of player we bring in, but I don't think there will be many permanent ones .. outside of Allan probably another two permanent signings and a couple of loans. But hopefully we will have Boyle and Porteous back fully fit which will be like having two new signings.

But at the end of the day I would far rather we had qualified for Europe than not.

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 06:24 PM
He can play Mackie, Murray and Gullan. Games might not mean anything to us but they should have professional pride and will be playing against two teams fighting for 3rd place. The senior players would surely be playing for a contract as well?

Some contract talks will have been put on hold until Europe was decided. We know we aren’t in Europe now so I’d imagine certain players will be told they are not getting renewals ASAP. Blessing is club can turn focus to next season and players like Bartley can find a new club rather than being left clubless for next season.

Again, I don’t see any blessing in that. If they are good enough to force their way in, they will. Mackie has a chance to earlier in the season, and didn’t. Qualifying for Europe, or not, shouldn’t have any impact on the like of Bartley and their contract situation surely? He’s never started him, he’s not going to give him games and a contract now surely?

madhatter
05-05-2019, 06:32 PM
If it wasn't for the league cup groups the extra rest and chance to build up in pre season friendlies would probably be helpful, but we cant afford to take the league cup lightly, though you would expect us to comfortably qualify out of any group.

As I said on another thread it will be interesting to see what sort of player we bring in, but I don't think there will be many permanent ones .. outside of Allan probably another two permanent signings and a couple of loans. But hopefully we will have Boyle and Porteous back fully fit which will be like having two new signings.

But at the end of the day I would far rather we had qualified for Europe than not.

Lose 10 players in the summer and add 5? Our squad has been far too small for far too long but we’re going to make it smaller? After all these years who is our backup right back? This is why I think we are lurching from season to season. Loans are great if you get the right ones but Agyepong and even Barker before proved problematic with injuries.

Porteous is clearly good enough to be a first team regular. We need more youth breaking through if we are going with a tiny first team squad. Shaw, Murray and Mackie particularly need to make it next year or they never will at Hibs in my eyes. They need to play though but we can’t loan them out because our squad is too small. So they warm benches and play dev football.

Tarrahib
05-05-2019, 06:39 PM
Give the young lads like Fraser Murray, Mackie & Gullan some game time for the last 2 games.
Aye and Sadicki as well.

madhatter
05-05-2019, 06:48 PM
Again, I don’t see any blessing in that. If they are good enough to force their way in, they will. Mackie has a chance to earlier in the season, and didn’t. Qualifying for Europe, or not, shouldn’t have any impact on the like of Bartley and their contract situation surely? He’s never started him, he’s not going to give him games and a contract now surely?

Killie have a better squad than us (league position doesn’t lie) and I don’t think as many are there on loan or strange short term contract where they never play. They have great chance to qualify for Europe. They haven’t had European football for years yet did better than us this year. Being successful goes beyond money, it’s squad building and good coaching. Looks like we have a good coach now, can certainly see a tactic and team philosophy forming.

I’d have preferred European football but we’ve had it a fair few times recently and I don’t think our starting 11 has really benefited from it. McGinn and McGeouch to Milligan and Mallan. Same back 4 with same lack of backup, same problem with January squad surgery because of poor league performance. My concern is our season could’ve went the other way in January the past two seasons, easily bottom 6 team before January. I’m hoping lack of Europe gives us a chance to reassess where we are and what our plan is.

NAE NOOKIE
05-05-2019, 06:59 PM
Lose 10 players in the summer and add 5? Our squad has been far too small for far too long but we’re going to make it smaller? After all these years who is our backup right back? This is why I think we are lurching from season to season. Loans are great if you get the right ones but Agyepong and even Barker before proved problematic with injuries.

Porteous is clearly good enough to be a first team regular. We need more youth breaking through if we are going with a tiny first team squad. Shaw, Murray and Mackie particularly need to make it next year or they never will at Hibs in my eyes. They need to play though but we can’t loan them out because our squad is too small. So they warm benches and play dev football.

I'm not contesting that MH … I agree we need a bigger squad, but if we do then we need to shift every bit of dead wood we can to accommodate it, we need to be absolutely brutal and yes that does mean players like Fraser and Mackie stepping up, Shaw as well if it comes to it. I agree about loans too … far from bringing a lot to the team half the time East Mains seems to be a convalescent home for broken players from other clubs … come to Hibs on loan get injured seems to be the way.

I love Lewis I really do …. but listening on the radio today when I heard 'Mallan out to Stevenson' or 'Omeonga out to Stevenson' or 'Hanlon out to Stevenson' I just knew any chance of a quick Hibs break had ended right there. We need an overlapping left back with Lewis definitely on the bench every week where he is a very able replacement at LB or even in midfield if it comes to it.

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 07:12 PM
Killie have a better squad than us (league position doesn’t lie) and I don’t think as many are there on loan or strange short term contract where they never play. They have great chance to qualify for Europe. They haven’t had European football for years yet did better than us this year. Being successful goes beyond money, it’s squad building and good coaching. Looks like we have a good coach now, can certainly see a tactic and team philosophy forming.

I’d have preferred European football but we’ve had it a fair few times recently and I don’t think our starting 11 has really benefited from it. McGinn and McGeouch to Milligan and Mallan. Same back 4 with same lack of backup, same problem with January squad surgery because of poor league performance. My concern is our season could’ve went the other way in January the past two seasons, easily bottom 6 team before January. I’m hoping lack of Europe gives us a chance to reassess where we are and what our plan is.

If we were in Europe, our season would start two or three days earlier than it does now.

We don’t have any extra opportunity to reassess things. We’d be much better off having qualified for Europe.

Slavers
05-05-2019, 07:12 PM
If we beat Aberdeen and Killie and if Killie loose to Rangers then surely we get into Europe?

The Modfather
05-05-2019, 07:14 PM
I'm not contesting that MH … I agree we need a bigger squad, but if we do then we need to shift every bit of dead wood we can to accommodate it, we need to be absolutely brutal and yes that does mean players like Fraser and Mackie stepping up, Shaw as well if it comes to it. I agree about loans too … far from bringing a lot to the team half the time East Mains seems to be a convalescent home for broken players from other clubs … come to Hibs on loan get injured seems to be the way.

I love Lewis I really do …. but listening on the radio today when I heard 'Mallan out to Stevenson' or 'Omeonga out to Stevenson' or 'Hanlon out to Stevenson' I just knew any chance of a quick Hibs break had ended right there. We need an overlapping left back with Lewis definitely on the bench every week where he is a very able replacement at LB or even in midfield if it comes to it.

Heckingbottom seems to be pragmatic and play to players’ strengths. If he wants the fullbacks to provide most of our attacking width that’s not Stevenson, and to a lesser extent Gray. However if he wants to play wingers in front of the fullbacks and let the fullbacks primarily focus on defending Stevenson & Gray (although question marks around his injury record) are perfect.

madhatter
05-05-2019, 07:17 PM
I'm not contesting that MH … I agree we need a bigger squad, but if we do then we need to shift every bit of dead wood we can to accommodate it, we need to be absolutely brutal and yes that does mean players like Fraser and Mackie stepping up, Shaw as well if it comes to it. I agree about loans too … far from bringing a lot to the team half the time East Mains seems to be a convalescent home for broken players from other clubs … come to Hibs on loan get injured seems to be the way.

I love Lewis I really do …. but listening on the radio today when I heard 'Mallan out to Stevenson' or 'Omeonga out to Stevenson' or 'Hanlon out to Stevenson' I just knew any chance of a quick Hibs break had ended right there. We need an overlapping left back with Lewis definitely on the bench every week where he is a very able replacement at LB or even in midfield if it comes to it.

Stevenson wasn’t great today and he has his limitations. I thought McGregor, Hanlon, Milligan and Mallan were the main problems today though. Not seen a ball get switched to the other side so slowly in a long time. Each player took a minimum of 2 touches before playing a slow trundling ball to the next player. By the time Gray or Stevenson got the ball they were closed down. Passing and first touch were stinking from most players today. Says it all that Kamberi’s first touch looked quite good today...

Gauld, Omeonga and Horgan often stood at the top end of the pitch near McNulty and beside a marker so we ended up with a disconnect in the centre of our team when building up play. Hence the number of long balls we resorted to. 4-5 attackers far up pitch and rest playing slow trundling passes sideways or backwards is never going to work.

I hope we actually start signing players for a philosophy and on permanent deals where possible. Players like Mallan and Horgan suggest we’ve signed them as they were seen as cheap deals for good players not necessarily that they’d fit in with the way Hibs play football. I’m glad they are permanent though as they have potential. Nelom, Mavrias, Johnson, Spector, Bigirimana and so one suggest we have a bizarre way of building a squad though...

Tarrahib
05-05-2019, 07:27 PM
If we beat Aberdeen and Killie and if Killie loose to Rangers then surely we get into Europe?
If your granny had balls she would be .What? Your Grandad.

madhatter
05-05-2019, 07:29 PM
If we were in Europe, our season would start two or three days earlier than it does now.

We don’t have any extra opportunity to reassess things. We’d be much better off having qualified for Europe.

We were in Europe at the start of this season but come January top six seemed a long shot. Many of us wanted rid of a hero from the previous season (MacLaren) come January as well. Things that seem to be better for you aren’t always better for you. Huddersfield got into Premiership down south earlier than planned and thus far have only got 15pts. Will they be back in two years time? Maybe, maybe not. Was it better for them to have their time in the top league, in my eyes, no because they are going backwards. Looking at our current squad, and the number of loans, I think we are going backwards and I think that needs addressed. Maybe lack of Europe won’t bring us focus and allow us to reassess but I think Hecky will bring us a noticeable playing style with players that fit his philosophy (I hope).

Aberdeen have had a poor season by their recent standards, I think some of that is down to European football at the start. European football is much more difficult and drains players more than league cup.

Ryan91
05-05-2019, 07:30 PM
If we beat Aberdeen and Killie and if Killie loose to Rangers then surely we get into Europe?

7 points is the gap between ourselves and Aberdeen with 2 games to play.

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 07:33 PM
We were in Europe at the start of this season but come January top six seemed a long shot. Many of us wanted rid of a hero from the previous season (MacLaren) come January as well. Things that seem to be better for you aren’t always better for you. Huddersfield got into Premiership down south earlier than planned and thus far have only got 15pts. Will they be back in two years time? Maybe, maybe not. Was it better for them to have their time in the top league, in my eyes, no because they are going backwards. Looking at our current squad, and the number of loans, I think we are going backwards and I think that needs addressed. Maybe lack of Europe won’t bring us focus and allow us to reassess but I think Hecky will bring us a noticeable playing style with players that fit his philosophy (I hope).

Aberdeen have had a poor season by their recent standards, I think some of that is down to European football at the start. European football is much more difficult and drains players more than league cup.

So essentially, we don’t want to have a good season and qualify for Europe because it makes next season too hard. We don’t want the money and opportunity associated with it and are better off playing Montrose away?

danhibees1875
05-05-2019, 07:37 PM
If we beat Aberdeen and Killie and if Killie loose to Rangers then surely we get into Europe?

That's slavers. :greengrin

We're 7 points behind Aberdeen and Killie.

madhatter
05-05-2019, 07:46 PM
So essentially, we don’t want to have a good season and qualify for Europe because it makes next season too hard. We don’t want the money and opportunity associated with it and are better off playing Montrose away?

Have I said that? I would have loved Europe again. However, can you truthfully say we’ve developed/improved our squad following or during our European ventures? With all this added money from Europe, have you seen our squad become stronger in the last 3 years? I’ve seen sideways or backwards steps in the quality of players we have. curious what you think and whether you think another European run will cause a different outcome this time?

Tarrahib
05-05-2019, 08:01 PM
Heckingbottom seems to be pragmatic and play to players’ strengths. If he wants the fullbacks to provide most of our attacking width that’s not Stevenson, and to a lesser extent Gray. However if he wants to play wingers in front of the fullbacks and let the fullbacks primarily focus on defending Stevenson & Gray (although question marks around his injury record) are perfect.
In the words of the old saying You can only P--h with the c--k that you have got .Unfortunately Hecky has only got Lennons c--k at the moment .Next year he will have his own.Im looking forward to next season.
l

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 08:03 PM
Have I said that? I would have loved Europe again. However, can you truthfully say we’ve developed/improved our squad following or during our European ventures? With all this added money from Europe, have you seen our squad become stronger in the last 3 years? I’ve seen sideways or backwards steps in the quality of players we have. curious what you think and whether you think another European run will cause a different outcome this time?

We were in Europe in 2016 and went on to get promoted and finish fourth in the premiership.

We had our best European run in a long time this year. It was always going to be a transitional period with the quality of player we lost in midfield.

Would it help attract players if we are in Europe? Yes.
Would we make more money than playing in the league cup groups? Yes.
Would the players benefit more from playing against European opposition? Again, I think yes.

Surely all of that gives us more of a chance to build a better team?

madhatter
05-05-2019, 08:12 PM
We were in Europe in 2016 and went on to get promoted and finish fourth in the premiership.

We had our best European run in a long time this year. It was always going to be a transitional period with the quality of player we lost in midfield.

Would it help attract players if we are in Europe? Yes.
Would we make more money than playing in the league cup groups? Yes.
Would the players benefit more from playing against European opposition? Again, I think yes.

Surely all of that gives us more of a chance to build a better team?

My counter argument is - do you think we have a better squad now than in 2016? Do you think we have a better squad this year than last? My answer to both is no. I agree with the points you’ve made but they are what should happen and logical conclusions to circumstances, the reality is not the same. As far as I’m concerned we haven’t developed much squad wise for years. One of our best players this year left in January (Efe) and we won’t get a player comparable in the summer. We also seem to be signing players to give them training facilities and increase our internationalist player count. If we made major signings after the European run this year I’d side with your thinking but we got Milligan...

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 08:20 PM
My counter argument is - do you think we have a better squad now than in 2016? Do you think we have a better squad this year than last? My answer to both is no. I agree with the points you’ve made but they are what should happen and logical conclusions to circumstances, the reality is not the same. As far as I’m concerned we haven’t developed much squad wise for years. One of our best players this year left in January (Efe) and we won’t get a player comparable in the summer. We also seem to be signing players to give them training facilities and increase our internationalist player count. If we made major signings after the European run this year I’d side with your thinking but we got Milligan...

So why is not qualifying for Europe, earning less money and developing the players less going to allow us to make all these signings and improve what we have?

If you don’t want us making loan signings you’re in for a shock given Heckingbottom’s recent comments.

ehf
05-05-2019, 08:21 PM
Just hope we get back on the horse and try to win both remaining games so we show we are and can be competitive.

Losing Hecky's unbeaten run will take away the fear of losing Hecky's unbeaten run, so we should pump Killie and Aberdeen:wink:

madhatter
05-05-2019, 08:44 PM
So why is not qualifying for Europe, earning less money and developing the players less going to allow us to make all these signings and improve what we have?

If you don’t want us making loan signings you’re in for a shock given Heckingbottom’s recent comments.

Maybe it’d help us focus on player recruitment earlier? Get deadwood out earlier and possibly see about some pre-contracts? We don’t have much to play for so surely focus can be put into next season now? Have Hecky discussing targets rather than being on the training pitch so much over the next few weeks, have Robbie taking training. It’s not qualifying for Europe that affects what I’m talking about, it’s taking European qualification to the last day, which is what it would’ve been for us. If we qualified for Europe today, great. That wasn’t on offer though. The problem is the unknown, and important discussions being delayed to the end of the season as the club are focusing on the fight for Europe. That’s gone now, which in my eyes is good. We know what to plan for next season, early.

Club can talk about work going on throughout the summer but that’s paper talk and stuff to please the fans. To key members of staff, similar to school holidays, the summer break from football is when some will take holidays. Whether it be at our club or others we need to negotiate with.

We signed McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship. We’ve had Europe and signed Mallan and Milligan, I don’t see direct correlation between Europe and better players.

Killie haven’t had Europe in a long while but are doing better than us...

I know most of our squad will be made out of loans next season, that’s why I’ve mentioned my frustration at that.

mjhibby
05-05-2019, 08:48 PM
McNulty and Kamberi haven’t turned into poor players, both players have just suffered from a lack of creativity behind them.

Both of them with Allan, Boyle and a.n other behind them is a different proposition altogether.

I don't think you should underestimate how much a miss Boyle has been. Which makes Becky's points haul tremendous

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 08:56 PM
Maybe it’d help us focus on player recruitment earlier? Get deadwood out earlier and possibly see about some pre-contracts? We don’t have much to play for so surely focus can be put into next season now? Have Hecky discussing targets rather than being on the training pitch so much over the next few weeks, have Robbie taking training. It’s not qualifying for Europe that affects what I’m talking about, it’s taking European qualification to the last day, which is what it would’ve been for us. If we qualified for Europe today, great. That wasn’t on offer though. The problem is the unknown, and important discussions being delayed to the end of the season as the club are focusing on the fight for Europe. That’s gone now, which in my eyes is good. We know what to plan for next season, early.

Club can talk about work going on throughout the summer but that’s paper talk and stuff to please the fans. To key members of staff, similar to school holidays, the summer break from football is when some will take holidays. Whether it be at our club or others we need to negotiate with.

We signed McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship. We’ve had Europe and signed Mallan and Milligan, I don’t see direct correlation between Europe and better players.

Killie haven’t had Europe in a long while but are doing better than us...

I know most of our squad will be made out of loans next season, that’s why I’ve mentioned my frustration at that.

We have a recruitment team who work all year. Being in Europe doesn’t guarantee better players. But you are trying to build a better team to allow you to qualify for Europe. Therefore, I don’t see any blessing in failing to qualify.

Not sure why you should be so frustrated with loans either? It’s a way of getting players you couldn’t otherwise get. Stokes, Henderson...

You’re making the assumption that everything was on hold until we knew where we were finishing. I don’t think it was. We have a structure in place that means that doesn’t happen. Or shouldn’t. .

madhatter
05-05-2019, 09:10 PM
We have a recruitment team who work all year. Being in Europe doesn’t guarantee better players. But you are trying to build a better team to allow you to qualify for Europe. Therefore, I don’t see any blessing in failing to qualify.

Not sure why you should be so frustrated with loans either? It’s a way of getting players you couldn’t otherwise get. Stokes, Henderson...

You’re making the assumption that everything was on hold until we knew where we were finishing. I don’t think it was. We have a structure in place that means that doesn’t happen. Or shouldn’t. .

Gauld, Agyepong, Johnson, Hyndman, Rherras, many reasons to be wary of loan system.

I’m not making an assumption, Hecky said in recent pre-match interview that he’s had players knocking on door to get future sorted and that they were told waiting until the end of the season. Hecky also didn’t seem to know where he wanted to improve the squad because he wanted to reward current players. Again, we should know this by now. Having Europe doesn’t fix the above issues. We should have clear plans and be starting them now. Maybe we are, recent years and January fixes suggest otherwise.

B.H.F.C
05-05-2019, 09:42 PM
Gauld, Agyepong, Johnson, Hyndman, Rherras, many reasons to be wary of loan system.

I’m not making an assumption, Hecky said in recent pre-match interview that he’s had players knocking on door to get future sorted and that they were told waiting until the end of the season. Hecky also didn’t seem to know where he wanted to improve the squad because he wanted to reward current players. Again, we should know this by now. Having Europe doesn’t fix the above issues. We should have clear plans and be starting them now. Maybe we are, recent years and January fixes suggest otherwise.

I could give you plenty examples of players who would make you wary of signing players permenantly.

And again, being in Europe doesn’t fix all your problems. I get that. But qualifying for Europe is probably our primary objective at the start of the year so I just don’t see any blessing in failing to meet that objective.

Do we want our season to be finished early every year to allow us to focus on the next year? Or do we want to compete right to the end, whilst planning for next year at the same time? Which we have done by the way. We’ve just had two players sign long term contracts and already have Allan signed for next year.

Baldy Foghorn
05-05-2019, 09:52 PM
Blessing for my Wallet, but not for Hibs.

Europe is a money spinner, especially two or three ties.

Instead we have the not so glamorous league cup groups to play in....

Sir David Gray
05-05-2019, 09:58 PM
If we beat Aberdeen and Killie and if Killie loose to Rangers then surely we get into Europe?

If those results happen we would finish 5th, 1 point behind Kilmarnock.

Slavers
05-05-2019, 10:15 PM
If those results happen we would finish 5th, 1 point behind Kilmarnock.

Worryingly I looked at that table more than once today and thought we could still qualify.

smack
05-05-2019, 10:51 PM
Aberdeen have had a poor season by their recent standards, I think some of that is down to European football at the start. European football is much more difficult and drains players more than league cup.

Aberdeen only played 1 round in Europe

Eyrie
06-05-2019, 09:12 AM
Hibs can't sort out the future of players until we know our final league position and whether we're in Europe next season because that affects how much we have for the player budget.

The problems this season didn't stem from being distracted by European games but by our approach to signing players which seemed to focus on their quality rather than how they would fit into a team.

I think Heckingbottom won't make the same mistake and his signings will be a clear indication of how he wants us to play.

Since452
06-05-2019, 10:07 AM
Hibs can't sort out the future of players until we know our final league position and whether we're in Europe next season because that affects how much we have for the player budget.

The problems this season didn't stem from being distracted by European games but by our approach to signing players which seemed to focus on their quality rather than how they would fit into a team.

I think Heckingbottom won't make the same mistake and his signings will be a clear indication of how he wants us to play.

Yeah i agree. The club were boasting about how many international players we had at one point. I'd rather we got a gem from the lower leagues that fitted the system and hit the ground running.

Keith_M
06-05-2019, 01:05 PM
Agreed.
For all his faults it's how much of a difference Boyle makes both as an attacker and an out ball, Allan obviously for his vision and passing.
I honestly believe that we are only a couple of players away from being a really good team.


We're also missing, IMO, our best defender in Ryan Porteous.

Greenbeard
06-05-2019, 02:17 PM
If those results happen we would finish 5th, 1 point behind Kilmarnock.
This would cue all sorts of whatiffery.
What if Kamberi had blasted home that chance late in the game yesterday.
What if McNulty hadn't missed that penalty v Them.
Same match, what if Slivka had headed home.
What if...
What if...
What if.....
Endless.

Steven79
06-05-2019, 02:42 PM
I think it might have given that lot along the road more motivation to win the cup if it had denied us Europe as they seem to care more about denying us than winning something for themselves and it would have been a right pisser seeing them win the cup and deny Europe in one go....

I hope it means we can start planning for next season straight away as we know when our season starts now.

Hopefully Europe will prove to be a distraction for Killie & Aberdeen and we pull away from them when they are playing on the Thursday & Sunday.

Smartie
06-05-2019, 09:44 PM
Hibs can't sort out the future of players until we know our final league position and whether we're in Europe next season because that affects how much we have for the player budget.

The problems this season didn't stem from being distracted by European games but by our approach to signing players which seemed to focus on their quality rather than how they would fit into a team.

I think Heckingbottom won't make the same mistake and his signings will be a clear indication of how he wants us to play.

We could do without having to wait until well into February each season to have our team signed up and match fit.

Months of begging by Hibs followed by record season ticket sales leading to a hopelessly imbalanced squad for half a season isn't acceptable.

jacomo
07-05-2019, 08:15 AM
Will our pre season be that much longer? We'll have League Cup group games to play now.

We played our 1st European game on 21st July this season, Hearts started their LC campaign 3 days earlier.


Good point. I’d much rather play some European ties with a bye through to the next round of the LC.

jacomo
07-05-2019, 08:18 AM
We could do without having to wait until well into February each season to have our team signed up and match fit.

Months of begging by Hibs followed by record season ticket sales leading to a hopelessly imbalanced squad for half a season isn't acceptable.


Indeed, but who was responsible for that?

It’s been pointed out before, but Lennon fell out with his no.1 striker in each of the three seasons he was at Hibs.

Quite an unfortunate consequence, you might say.

If Hecky and the rest of the football dept are working as one then hopefully we will have a calmer and more successful summer recruitment.

My_Wife_Camille
07-05-2019, 08:30 AM
Yeah i agree. The club were boasting about how many international players we had at one point. I'd rather we got a gem from the lower leagues that fitted the system and hit the ground running.
Totally agree with this. Far too much was being made about the number of international players we had signed as if that somehow mattered.

Put it this way, the signings of uncapped John McGinn, Scott Allan and Dylan McGeouch were all better than the signings of Mark Milligan, Emerson Hyndman and Vykintas Slivka.

scooby
07-05-2019, 09:39 AM
McNulty and Kamberi haven’t turned into poor players, both players have just suffered from a lack of creativity behind them.

Both of them with Allan, Boyle and a.n other behind them is a different proposition altogether.

Agree, the service they're getting at the moment is rubbish, what's with all the hopeful high balls?

Smartie
07-05-2019, 10:12 AM
Agree, the service they're getting at the moment is rubbish, what's with all the hopeful high balls?

Saturday was a bit of an aberration and I don't think the hopeful high ball stuff was a deliberate tactic.

Rangers did a great job of pressing Milligan and stopping Hibs getting any easy possession from the back and into midfield, meaning the defence just lumped it.

It is referred to on the Fyvie thread, but that really is the pivotal position and role in the team. Kevin McBride did it brilliantly for a bit for us but there is a fine line between a football team and a hoofball team and it is often the ability of the central midfielders to take the ball of the defence, turn and go forward. Most teams actually want to play football and the likes of Levein who choose to play "the direct way" are something of a minority.

MagicSwirlingShip
07-05-2019, 10:28 AM
We're also missing, IMO, our best defender in Ryan Porteous.

As much as I love Ryan, Darren Mcgregor is the best defender at the club IMO.

KeithTheHibby
07-05-2019, 12:14 PM
The 6 european games we played this season were ok however it did end up with the inevitable humping by a pretty average team.

The squad was in a bit of disarray given how early we started and european games are hardly what you want so soon.

Ronniekirk
07-05-2019, 12:19 PM
Saturday was a bit of an aberration and I don't think the hopeful high ball stuff was a deliberate tactic.

Rangers did a great job of pressing Milligan and stopping Hibs getting any easy possession from the back and into midfield, meaning the defence just lumped it.

It is referred to on the Fyvie thread, but that really is the pivotal position and role in the team. Kevin McBride did it brilliantly for a bit for us but there is a fine line between a football team and a hoofball team and it is often the ability of the central midfielders to take the ball of the defence, turn and go forward. Most teams actually want to play football and the likes of Levein who choose to play "the direct way" are something of a minority.

Rangers have shown an ability to close us down quickly in the previous few games against us so that should of been anticipated
The fact we get pressed into sending it all the way back to keeper or lumping it long is something we need to looking to combat I know it’s away from home and we are going to be more on the back foot but Lennon seemed to be able to get us forward more with players comfortable on the ball for periods and we scored as a result of this
Ok we don’t have Effie or Boyle or Porterous and Kamberi being played in different position is not helping his cause But I trust Heck to find answers to this for next Season when he has all his players fit and added to the squad