Gary Caldwell Managerial Masterclass

[easty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48120968

He's an embarrassment to Partick Thistle. I'd not be happy if a Hibs manager ever did this. Do your job and manage your players. Weak.

[tonyrougier123]

Strange one that.wonder how the directors feel about that.think he might do well with them though in the end if given the chance at partick beyond what is a really bad year for them.although wouldnae want a hibs gaffer attempting that.

[-Jonesy-]

Doesn’t mean that they are picking the team themselves, Caldwell probably trying to think outside the box a bit

[Michael]

He still picks the team though. Not sure if it will help or not, but will be keeping an eye on the score.

[calumhibee1]

Sounds like he’s more just wanting to know what the players think of their team mates and who they want on the pitch beside them. Wonder if everyone will include themselves in the starting 11? :greengrin

[Since90+2]

Suppose the proof will be in the pudding as they say. It's maybe a little of of mind games and to try and get the players thinking who they want in the trenches with them.

Not sure if be happy if Heckingbottom done that but if it works then fair enough.

[Brightside]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48120968

He's an embarrassment to Partick Thistle. I'd not be happy if a Hibs manager ever did this. Do your job and manage your players. Weak.

Nothing wrong with that. Its a great way to see what they think of each other etc.

[pollution]

Embarrassing spelling.

[Since452]

Shambles. What a weak lack of leadership. The players should be concentrating on taking instructions and playing the game not picking teams. I'm actually cringing for the Partick players.

[hibbydog]

Weird. Probably a worthwhile exercise for a team building event or company away day. Totally inappropriate for a crucial relegation decider though and it just makes him look weak. You have to wonder how the players will react to it too.

And the spelling on the message is cringeworthy. Nobody likes the grammar polis, but honestly, come on!! I can still remember being taught the difference between two, too and to as a ten year old!!!

[MWHIBBIES]

Sounds like he’s more just wanting to know what the players think of their team mates and who they want on the pitch beside them. Wonder if everyone will include themselves in the starting 11? :greengrin

Exactly what I thought. Pretty clever tbh. Certainly not embarrassing.

[The 90+2]

Great idea and very thoughtful.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Exactly what I thought. Pretty clever tbh. Certainly not embarrassing.

I thought the same earlier. If you try and do something a bit different in football it gets ridiculed though.

[Hakim Sar]

Easy to stick the boot into two unpopular ex players. They are doing something different by trying to understand the psyche of the squad. Given the predicament Partick face going into this weekend I'd suggest that the players just taking instructions from the management has failed. So why not do something provocative? The real issue is why was this made public? Massive breach of Brian Kerr's trust.

[Pretty Boy]

It's an interesting idea. Ultimately the manager will still pick the team and it's anonymous so there is no reason for it to cause a fall out. It might just give an insight into which players are trusted by their teammates.

There are plenty things to criticise Caldwell about as a manager but I'm not sure this is one of them.

[Leith Green]

Reminds me of the Brendan Rodgers envelope episode at Liverpool. Think that made him look like a complete tool to the players , would have thought the same would apply here. Players are paid to play , managers pick the team start playing mind games with players and u are on a road to failure.

[wookie70]

Much will depend on the relationship he already has with the players. Nothing wrong with the idea and maybe he could have been brave and asked them to say who they would like in the dug out

[Since452]

Weird. Probably a worthwhile exercise for a team building event or company away day. Totally inappropriate for a crucial relegation decider though and it just makes him look weak. You have to wonder how the players will react to it too.

And the spelling on the message is cringeworthy. Nobody likes the grammar polis, but honestly, come on!! I can still remember being taught the difference between two, too and to as a ten year old!!!

Exactly

[Bleeds green]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48120968

He's an embarrassment to Partick Thistle. I'd not be happy if a Hibs manager ever did this. Do your job and manage your players. Weak.

Because you wouldn’t be happy ‘he’s an embarrassment’ I see nothing wrong with trying this or other different ideas. Too many dinosaurs with opinions these days quick to judge because they disagree with something

[WoreTheGreen]

A smokescreen to take the pressure off the players

[tamig]

Doesn’t mean that they are picking the team themselves, Caldwell probably trying to think outside the box a bit

That’s the way I see it. I’m not a fan of Caldwell in the slightest but I think some of the comments on here are a bit unfair.

[SChibs]

Don't see an issue with it at all. The players spend every working day with each other and will know who they can rely on and trust. Players might not want to speak up about certain things so doing it anonymously could get the message across

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Caldwell will get eleven bits of paper that say the manager is a pr!ck. Twelve if he completes one as well.

[bawheid]

If Caldwell keeps them up (which I think he will) then he’s done a good job and I would fancy them to kick on for promotion next season.

[Smartie]

I quite like it when managers try something different.

It has a wee whiff of letting Jason Cummings give the team talk about it.

[Inconsequential]

What is the right way to manage a football club? If Partick get a result and Caldwell keeps his team up no Partick supporters will be complaining. I have a few friends who support Thistle so have a little soft spot for them the club that is not my red and yellow pals. Always been a slightly unconventional club through the years much like their support.

[patlowe]

I have no problem with this, I just think it was stupid to put it on WhatsApp as it only ever takes one disgruntled player to undermine what you're trying to do.

[JimBHibees]

It's an interesting idea. Ultimately the manager will still pick the team and it's anonymous so there is no reason for it to cause a fall out. It might just give an insight into which players are trusted by their teammates.

There are plenty things to criticise Caldwell about as a manager but I'm not sure this is one of them.

Agree don't see any issue in it. Gets the players thinking about the whole team rather than just themselves. A wee change of focus probably a good thing.

[JimBHibees]

I have no problem with this, I just think it was stupid to put it on WhatsApp as it only ever takes one disgruntled player to undermine what you're trying to do.

Probably just trusted the players not too, pretty disappointing one couldn't just do what was asked.

[overdrive]

I have no problem with this, I just think it was stupid to put it on WhatsApp as it only ever takes one disgruntled player to undermine what you're trying to do.

Brian Kerr probably thought it would be invisible.

[easty]

Because you wouldn’t be happy ‘he’s an embarrassment’ I see nothing wrong with trying this or other different ideas. Too many dinosaurs with opinions these days quick to judge because they disagree with something

Dinosaur...never been called that before. If a football dinosaur is someone who wants the players to play and the manager to manage, then I guess I am.

For those who don't think it's embarrassment, or weak management, I bet you'd have thought differently if it had come out that Butcher asked the team to pick itself before the Hamilton play off game.

[JimBHibees]

Dinosaur...never been called that before. If a football dinosaur is someone who wants the players to play and the manager to manage, then I guess I am.

For those who don't think it's embarrassment, or weak management, I bet you'd have thought differently if it had come out that Butcher asked the team to pick itself before the Hamilton play off game.

He isnt asking the players to pick the team he is asking them to pick who they would choose. Caldwell will pick the team.

[CapitalGreen]

Dinosaur...never been called that before. If a football dinosaur is someone who wants the players to play and the manager to manage, then I guess I am.

For those who don't think it's embarrassment, or weak management, I bet you'd have thought differently if it had come out that Butcher asked the team to pick itself before the Hamilton play off game.

He's not asked the team to pick itself though, he's asked them what their preferred starting XI's would be. Managers draw on the opinions of their coaching staff about who they should play, why not draw on the opinions of the players too.

[calumhibee1]

Dinosaur...never been called that before. If a football dinosaur is someone who wants the players to play and the manager to manage, then I guess I am.

For those who don't think it's embarrassment, or weak management, I bet you'd have thought differently if it had come out that Butcher asked the team to pick itself before the Hamilton play off game.

As others have said there’s no indication he’s going to let one of them pick the team. He’s just asking their opinion of who they would play. He can then totally ignore them or it might give him food for thought if there’s a player or two who he always plays/never plays who’s name doesn’t or does feature a lot. After that food for thought he might well ignore it all and do as he pleases.

[Since452]

For a relegation decider I'd want my manager to put his trust in me and give me the confidence to go out and perform. Create a bit of seige mentality within the team. To ask the players to start picking teams, even for a bit of fun, would say to me the manager doesn't have a clue and will only create insecurities, devides trying to second guess and a lack of respect for the management team. It's not really the time to be fannying around with things like that.

[bigwheel]

I think this is a strange thing to do ...players will probably quite like having a voice ...so appreciate getting asked..but ramifications could be poor. For example: it will really isolate those who are left out. As they will feel their teammates voted against them .

Ultimately it will be defined by the result. If they win it was a quirky approach that perhaps got the right reaction. Lose and it will be seen as naive at best ...

A more appropriate approach perhaps would have been to two 2-3 trusted insurers in the shoulder and ask them barely what their views were ...and take that into the mix ..

[Baader]

If a manager asked that of me I'd think they were clueless.

[bigwheel]

If a manager asked that of me I'd think they were clueless.

But they are not asking the players to actually pick the team - they are in effect asking “who do you trust in the battle this weekend ”? It just a piece of insight for them ...

[IWasThere2016]

Nothing wrong with that. Its a great way to see what they think of each other etc.


Sounds like he’s more just wanting to know what the players think of their team mates and who they want on the pitch beside them. Wonder if everyone will include themselves in the starting 11? :greengrin


Exactly what I thought. Pretty clever tbh. Certainly not embarrassing.


Great idea and very thoughtful.


I thought the same earlier. If you try and do something a bit different in football it gets ridiculed though.

Where I'm at. Good luck to them.

[WeeRussell]

Where I'm at. Good luck to them.

Me tae :agree:

Somebody start a 'who on Hibs.net would you want in your first team' if going in to battle:cb

[Baader]

But they are not asking the players to actually pick the team - they are in effect asking “who do you trust in the battle this weekend ”? It just a piece of insight for them ...

Yes but its his job to know that.

[hibee316]

Yes but its his job to know that.

So, if you are managing people, would you never ask them to comment on their own performances and comment on the strengths and weaknesses of those around them?

Or do you see that as being the sole responsibility of the manager to know someone's strength and weaknesses?

Personally, I think it is great management.
It gets players to think about how each player fits in the team and it might get them to consider how they play along side them.
It can also be useful to see if there are any issues going on in a dressing room that were going under the radar.

[bigwheel]

Yes but its his job to know that.

It’s about engagement , getting them thinking differently , understanding the views. Management isn’t a one way dialogue ...

I’m not saying it’s perfect. But it’s not without merit...

[WeeRussell]

If this had come out as a story about how Alex Ferguson went about a successful cup final preparation one time, or something along those lines, it would be filed under 'genius' and nobody would be calling it out as him not doing his job.

Mind you, I doubt he uses whatsapp even today.

[easty]

If this had come out as a story about how Alex Ferguson went about a successful cup final preparation one time, or something along those lines, it would be filed under 'genius' and nobody would be calling it out as him not doing his job.

Aye I'm sure Sir Alex Ferguson was asking his squad to put their suggested line ups in a secret envelopes.

That story will never come out, cos he would never have done it...cos it's weak management.

[Baader]

So, if you are managing people, would you never ask them to comment on their own performances and comment on the strengths and weaknesses of those around them?

Or do you see that as being the sole responsibility of the manager to know someone's strength and weaknesses?

Personally, I think it is great management.
It gets players to think about how each player fits in the team and it might get them to consider how they play along side them.
It can also be useful to see if there are any issues going on in a dressing room that were going under the radar.

I do manage people. But as a football manager I wouldn't be asking my players my best team. And of course he is going to be influenced by their suggestions. It will alienate players and place doubt in the minds of those not featured. It just shows a lack of leadership and hints he is all out of ideas. Wouldn't want to see this at Hibs.

[Eyrie]

If a manager asked that of me I'd think they were clueless.

And if I couldn't answer it then my manager would recognise I'm clueless.

Football is a team sport, so players should be able to think about what makes a team work.

[WeeRussell]

Aye I'm sure Sir Alex Ferguson was asking his squad to put their suggested line ups in a secret envelopes.

That story will never come out, cos he would never have done it...cos it's weak management.

I'm sure he wasn't either, just as I'm sure you're aware I didn't think he had. My point, which you may or may not have missed (seems to be your theme throughout this thread) is that I don't think so many would be jumping on it in the same fashion if it wasn't Gary Caldwell.

You may very well disagree with the approach but it's not simply weak management.

[easty]

I'm sure he wasn't either, just as I'm sure you're aware I didn't think he had. My point, which you may or may not have missed (seems to be your theme throughout this thread) is that I don't think so many would be jumping on it in the same fashion if it wasn't Gary Caldwell.

You may very well disagree with the approach but it's not simply weak management.

Its weak management.

[easty]

It just shows a lack of leadership and hints he is all out of ideas. Wouldn't want to see this at Hibs.

:agree:

[WeeRussell]

Its weak management.

Okay, my mistake.

[matty_f]

Good on him for trying something different.There are a lot of things at play here which all point to good management rather than weak management. Crucially, he'll know his players and what the reaction will be (from the ones he's wanting the reaction from).

[southsider]

I quite like it when managers try something different.

It has a wee whiff of letting Jason Cummings give the team talk about it.

And we all know how that turned out !

[Danderhall Hibs]

Good on him for trying something different.There are a lot of things at play here which all point to good management rather than weak management. Crucially, he'll know his players and what the reaction will be (from the ones he's wanting the reaction from).

And I bet his team talk is already about trusting eachother and how the teams picked were all the same so they know they’re the best team going out there to do the job blah blah blah.

[Since452]

I quite like Partick Thistle. Feel for their fans. They're not a bad bunch.

[Brightside]

Aye I'm sure Sir Alex Ferguson was asking his squad to put their suggested line ups in a secret envelopes.

That story will never come out, cos he would never have done it...cos it's weak management.

Encouraging people to speak and think is never ever weak management. He's empowering them. It works.

[Hibernian Verse]

Encouraging people to speak and think is never ever weak management. He's empowering them. It works.

Agreed. I manage a branch and regularly ask for input. I sometimes get good ideas, but they always feel empowered and work well, I think, as a consequence.

[Hibeesmad]

If Terry Butcher did the same thing maybe we would have stayed up.

[tamig]

Aye I'm sure Sir Alex Ferguson was asking his squad to put their suggested line ups in a secret envelopes.

That story will never come out, cos he would never have done it...cos it's weak management.

That’s a pretty backward view. You said you’d never been called a dinosaur before. You’re making a pretty decent attempt at demonstrating why someone suggested you were one.

[Since452]

Aye I'm sure Sir Alex Ferguson was asking his squad to put their suggested line ups in a secret envelopes.

That story will never come out, cos he would never have done it...cos it's weak management.

Would love to have seen Roy Keane's reaction to that hahaha

[MWHIBBIES]

Aye I'm sure Sir Alex Ferguson was asking his squad to put their suggested line ups in a secret envelopes.

That story will never come out, cos he would never have done it...cos it's weak management.

Alex Ferguson had world class coaches to help him. Caldwell has Brian Kerr. Hardly surprising he is trying something different.

[Swedish hibee]

I don't get the outrage on here..? I think it's great.

[easty]

That’s a pretty backward view. You said you’d never been called a dinosaur before. You’re making a pretty decent attempt at demonstrating why someone suggested you were one.

If it’s a dinosaurs view to think that Sir Alex Ferguson would never ask his squad to secretly write down who they thought should play in an important game, in any game actually, then...yeah...I’m absolutely a dinosaur.

[Since452]

If it’s a dinosaurs view to think that Sir Alex Ferguson would never ask his squad to secretly write down who they thought should play in an important game, in any game actually, then...yeah...I’m absolutely a dinosaur.

I'd find it highly embarrassing if Hecky did it. You never know Partick might win and he'll look like a genius. If he doesn't he'll be under massive pressure.

[The Modfather]

Over the years managers have sought Messi & Ronaldo’s input, while the manager still has the final say, as to who they should potentially sign. Is that weak management?

[CapitalGreen]

I'd find it highly embarrassing if Hecky did it. You never know Partick might win and he'll look like a genius. If he doesn't he'll be under massive pressure.

Would you be embarrassed to hear that Hecky consulted the opinions of experienced pro's like Gray and McGregor?

[easty]

Would you be embarrassed to hear that Hecky consulted the opinions of experienced pro's like Gray and McGregor?

No, but that's not even close to what Caldwell has done. You think that talking to a couple of senior members of the squad is the same as asking all squad members to secretly write down what they think the line up should be?

[easty]

Over the years managers have sought Messi & Ronaldo’s input, while the manager still has the final say, as to who they should potentially sign. Is that weak management?

Nope, nor is it the same thing.

[The Modfather]

Nope, nor is it the same thing.

So it’s not the manager seeking input from his team you have a problem with. There’s also no suggestion anyone but Caldwell will pick the team, so I’m still not sure what aspect of you disagree with.

[easty]

So it’s not the manager seeking input from his team you have a problem with. There’s also no suggestion anyone but Caldwell will pick the team, so I’m still not sure what aspect of you disagree with.

Aye you're right, it's the same, well done you :rolleyes:

[matty_f]

Would love to have seen Roy Keane's reaction to that hahaha

I defy anyone who listens to the podcast 'Top Flight Time Machine' to not try and answer that question in the style of Top Flight Time Machine.

"you want me to pick who I trust in the team? I don't trust any of them?! I'm not even sure I can trust myself?! What's the manager asking me that for? Has he gone soft or something?"

[Craig_HFC]

I could maybe understand it if he was new to the job & didn't know the squad very well and used it to see who the majority thought could be trusted but he's been there for months and it's an absolutely crucial game so comes across as a bit strange.

Either way, it's pretty shan from the player who screenshotted it and sent it to whoever they did. I know that leaks from dressing rooms are normal etc but, like I said, this is a crucial game for Partick and someone has shared part of their preparation for it.

[tamig]

If it’s a dinosaurs view to think that Sir Alex Ferguson would never ask his squad to secretly write down who they thought should play in an important game, in any game actually, then...yeah...I’m absolutely a dinosaur.

Have you read any of the posts from posters who think it’s a reasonable thing that Caldwell has come up with? Every manager is different in the way they go about getting the best out of their team - whether that be in sport or any walk of life. Innovation is to be embraced. What worked for Fergie won’t work for everyone. The key thing here is that I don’t expect for a second that Caldwell will randomly select one of the bits of paper and pin it up as his starting eleven. It’s a clever thing he’s trying here. Imo anyway.

[easty]

Have you read any of the posts from posters who think it’s a reasonable thing that Caldwell has come up with? Every manager is different in the way they go about getting the best out of their team - whether that be in sport or any walk of life. Innovation is to be embraced. What worked for Fergie won’t work for everyone. The key thing here is that I don’t expect for a second that Caldwell will randomly select one of the bits of paper and pin it up as his starting eleven. It’s a clever thing he’s trying here. Imo anyway.

I've read all the posts, and if that's what folk think that's fine by me, I just completely disagree.

I also think opinions would be vastly different if we were sitting second bottom and it came out that Heckingbottom had done this. I think the responses would be more along the lines of "he doesn't know what he's doing" and "if he can't pick a team, then he shouldn't have the job".

[hibbydog]

I quite like Partick Thistle. Feel for their fans. They're not a bad bunch.

Me too. I respect any non old firm fan in the West coast. Especially them from the same city. Good luck to them.

[tamig]

I've read all the posts, and if that's what folk think that's fine by me, I just completely disagree.

I also think opinions would be vastly different if we were sitting second bottom and it came out that Heckingbottom had done this. I think the responses would be more along the lines of "he doesn't know what he's doing" and "if he can't pick a team, then he shouldn't have the job".
Once again, nobody will be picking the team but the manager. Everybody has their own view on it and I’m pleased mine differs from yours.

[easty]

Once again, nobody will be picking the team but the manager. Everybody has their own view on it and I’m pleased mine differs from yours.

Easily pleased :dunno:

[Eyrie]

Easily pleased :dunno:

Judging by the responses on this thread, there are a number of posters who are "easily pleased".

How would you react if your boss asked you for some input?

[Pretty Boy]

Seems to have worked so far.

[Since452]

The one team letting my coupon down. Thought it would backfire massively. Shows what i know.

[Moulin Yarns]

Judging by the responses on this thread, there are a number of posters who are "easily pleased".

How would you react if your boss asked you for some input?

Personally I hated that sort of thing. Once a year the director of my department would get everyone together and do team building stuff. You had everyone from directors, heads of service, team leader, officers and technical team.


But it seems to have worked for Partick

[Billy Whizz]

Scott McDonald was on Sportsound last night. Said the individual was identified who leaked it, and has been dealt with. Wonder if they are in the squad today?

[Leith Green]

Scott McDonald was on Sportsound last night. Said the individual was identified who leaked it, and has been dealt with. Wonder if they are in the squad today?

Depends if his mates picked him 🤔

[PatHead]

Partick winning 2 0. Seems to have worked.

[MWHIBBIES]

:faf:

He's a genius, 3-0 up.

[cleanyman]

Well played

That's the football managers on here taught a lesson

[calumhibee1]

Good result for them. Wonder if there’s been any real changes from their usual starting line up?

[Inconsequential]

Weak management that actually works! How novel. Good for Thistle.

[CapitalGreen]

Well done Gary Caldwell, tried something different to try and elicit a performance out his squad and he has been rewarded with an emphatic 3-0 away win.

[Michael]

Secret to success in pretty much anything is doing the exact opposite of what people on the internet say.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It’s mental how many folk didn’t understand what he was doing. I even heard Stevie Cowan in the radio talking about how “it’s incredible that he was letting the players pick the team”

I don’t think that was ever the case.

Excellent result though.

[Liam978]

It’s mental how many folk didn’t understand what he was doing. I even heard Stevie Cowan in the radio talking about how “it’s incredible that he was letting the players pick the team”

I don’t think that was ever the case.

Excellent result though.

Quite correct DH, an exercise of , " lets see who will prevail in the trenches ".

[IWasThere2016]

It’s mental how many folk didn’t understand what he was doing. I even heard Stevie Cowan in the radio talking about how “it’s incredible that he was letting the players pick the team”

I don’t think that was ever the case.

Excellent result though.

Agree re the team but good on him - and the Jags players.

[worcesterhibby]

Secret to success in pretty much anything is doing the exact opposite of what people on the internet say.

Except it isn't now that you have said it on the internet ! :greengrin