What iconic football moments would have been changed by VAR?

[bigwheel]

VAR can create some drama - such as the match last night - but I’m not sure it’s a good thing overall....controversy is a key ingredient of football....what great moments of football would have been changed by VAR??

For example Maradona’s hand of god goal - football would be worse off without that story surely ?

What others stand out ?

[greiggy]

1966 World Cup final


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[Ryan91]

VAR can create some drama - such as the match last night - but I’m not sure it’s a good thing overall....controversy is a key ingredient of football....what great moments of football would have been changed by VAR??

For example Maradona’s hand of god goal - football would be worse off without that story surely ?

What others stand out ?

Our first goal Vs them in the recent derby For certain

[Jones28]

We'd have had two goals against Hearts.

Probably the most widely known recently would be Henrys handballs against Ireland?

[SaulGoodman]

We might not even have been relegated in 2013 if Forsters header wasn’t disallowed v Them.

[Diclonius]

We'd have been down to ten men in the final early in the second half but still only 1-2 down.

Oh, and about fifty disallowed goals in derbies.

[Bristolhibby]

Hearts “Penalty” in the Cup Final v them.

At 2-1 we were in the game. Up step a penalty outside the box and a red card and it was 3-1 and the game was over.

J

[007]

Straight red for Black for his assault on Griffiths.

[fiolex1]

Ian Blacks elbow incident at the 2012 cup final, should’ve been a sending off. Who knows what the outcome would’ve been?

[lyonhibs]

Ian Blacks elbow incident at the 2012 cup final, should’ve been a sending off. Who knows what the outcome would’ve been?

Ditto Ian Murray in a Derby. Almost took Black's head off. De Jong after 3 minutes in a WC Final also springs to mind.

[Bostonhibby]

Would using it in the toilets at dens park in 1986 have been allowed?

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[Bishop Hibee]

We’d have won the Scottish Cup in 1979 when Peter McCloy brought Colin Campbell down in the box.

[mca]

The Hand of God World cup... phew :thumbsup:

[southsider]

Colin Campbell’ s misssed penalty in 1979 final. Ref screwed us big time. Hun barsteward.

[theonlywayisup]

1966 World Cup final


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Close thread, this must be the most obvious.

Another must be the France goal against Republic of Ireland in a World Cup playoff match.

[calumhibee1]

Jordon Forster header at Tynie which was miles onside

Griffiths free kick at ER

Oli Shaw at Tynie

[Smartie]

Would using it in the toilets at dens park in 1986 have been allowed?

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If Craig Levein could use VAR to review his decision to have the mutton vindaloo the night before the title decider at Dens Park, I think that decision would be overturned.

[Bostonhibby]

If Craig Levein could use VAR to review his decision to have the mutton vindaloo the night before the title decider at Dens Park, I think that decision would be overturned.[emoji23]

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[surreyhibbie]

Alan gordon headed goal against Leeds United early 70's..

Certain it was onside.but ref disallowed it.

[Austinho]

We'd have been down to ten men in the final early in the second half but still only 1-2 down.

Oh, and about fifty disallowed goals in derbies.He clipped his own heels. Don’t think it was even a foul never mind a booking. Not watched it for a while mind!

[Alex Trager]

1966 World Cup final


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How so?

[greiggy]

Really?


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[greiggy]

The whole of the ball did not cross the line for England’s third goal. Modern analysis seems to back this up.


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[BILLYHIBS]

John Macdonald

[Lancs Harp]

Joe Jordan v Wales in 77.

Scotland may not have gone on to beat Holland in the final in 78 without that "stroke" of luck.

[The 90+2]

1966 World Cup final


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Goalline technology would be used for that.

[Just Jimmy]

every single trophy 'won' by either half of the old firm. after the endless amount of crap decisions in their favour were put right.



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[BILLYHIBS]

Scotland v Italy 2007

Alan Hutton getting barged over at our corner flag and the award going to Italy directly leading to their winning goal in stoppage time 1-2 knocking us out of Euro 2008 :confused:

[heretoday]

John Macdonald

LoL! Never forgotten.....

[BILLYHIBS]

LoL! Never forgotten.....

Agree!

No discription needed for those of a certain generation diving wee bassa! :greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

Scotland v Italy 2007

Alan Hutton getting barged over at our corner flag and the award going to Italy directly leading to their winning goal in stoppage time 1-2 knocking us out of Euro 2008 :confused:

We wouldn't have got our goal though. Barry Ferguson was offside.

J

[J-C]

So many especially for us.

That bloody handball against Falkirk.

Griffiths non goal against Hearts, add Ollie's non goal against them too.

[Smartie]

I'm amazed that so many people on here have sufficient faith in the Scottish authorities that they believe that even when faced with unarguable evidence they would possess the knowledge and integrity to make the right call.

[The 90+2]

I'm amazed that so many people on here have sufficient faith in the Scottish authorities that they believe that even when faced with unarguable evidence they would possess the knowledge and integrity to make the right call.

How have I got the feeling they will swing it somehow so var in Scotland is only at Parkhead and Ibrox and when games are on tv (their away games)?

[ian cruise]

I'm amazed that so many people on here have sufficient faith in the Scottish authorities that they believe that even when faced with unarguable evidence they would possess the knowledge and integrity to make the right call.

Footage would be filmed on an iPhone and Gordon Smith would decide the outcome.

[Onceinawhile]

We wouldn't have got our goal though. Barry Ferguson was offside.

J

And if memory serves, Italy had one incorrectly ruled out for offside either just before or after it.

[BILLYHIBS]

We wouldn't have got our goal though. Barry Ferguson was offside.

J

Whataboutery:

Two missed McFadden sitters

David Weir header headed off the line

Lee McCulloch shot handled inside the box

Match reports say Buffon spilled the ball into Ferguson’s path

Defo a game for VAR

I can still see the look of disappointment on my wee boys face

He could not believe how a Scotland player so obviously fouled could have the award go against him

Hey ho!

[Barman Stanton]

Similar to Hearts penalty in the final would be Mickey Weirs v Dunfermline in 91 unfortunately.

The last cpl of minutes against Falkirk in the play offs also spring to mind.

[hibby rae]

Here's a question though, what past decisions in our favour would we not have had?

Obviously Stevie Fulton would have still been booked as it was for being ugly.

[Phil MaGlass]

I'm amazed that so many people on here have sufficient faith in the Scottish authorities that they believe that even when faced with unarguable evidence they would possess the knowledge and integrity to make the right call.

I have said this many a time, huns game v dons prime example where Morelos should have been sent off atleast twice, and the penalty claims.
The games a bogey in scotland

[Argylehibby]

Similar to Hearts penalty in the final would be Mickey Weirs v Dunfermline in 91 unfortunately.

The last cpl of minutes against Falkirk in the play offs also spring to mind.

While Mickey wasn't tripped and the award was given for that VAR would have shown he had been pulled back before that and the penalty still awarded. (He says hopefully!) :wink:

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=greiggy;5767492]1966 World Cup final


Only if you are ABE.
VAR would certainly have allowed the other 3 goals so no change in the actual result. VAR would have cancelled the "hand of God" so think you are on the wrong track here.

[PatHead]

Think sevco would have got a penalty in the final when Lewis pushed one of their players.

[The Green Goblin]

Schumacher on Battiston. 1982.

[007]

1966 World Cup final


Only if you are ABE.
VAR would certainly have allowed the other 3 goals so no change in the actual result. VAR would have cancelled the "hand of God" so think you are on the wrong track here.

Doesn't necessarily follow that the remainder of the game would have been exactly the same. Germany had to try and equalise so maybe had everyone pushed forward when England then scored on the break right at the death.


In any match, any decision given differently could result in a completely different outcome. Though I'd agree if it was 10-0 with a minute to go then it probably wouldn't.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm amazed that so many people on here have sufficient faith in the Scottish authorities that they believe that even when faced with unarguable evidence they would possess the knowledge and integrity to make the right call.

Just thinking that myself. Even when they call in the compliance officer and look at things in detail days later, the New Huns still get a load of ridiculous calls going for them. :rolleyes:

[The 90+2]

Stokesys second would without a doubt be robbed away from us.

[JeMeSouviens]

1966 World Cup final


Only if you are ABE.
VAR would certainly have allowed the other 3 goals so no change in the actual result. VAR would have cancelled the "hand of God" so think you are on the wrong track here.

"Some of the crowd are on the pitch" usually means the game gets stopped, no? :wink:

[bigwheel]

Lots of good examples. Will the only real controversy in the future will be VAR decisions ..some of these are wonderful historic football Happenings

[CockneyRebel]

Doesn't necessarily follow that the remainder of the game would have been exactly the same. Germany had to try and equalise so maybe had everyone pushed forward when England then scored on the break right at the death.


In any match, any decision given differently could result in a completely different outcome. Though I'd agree if it was 10-0 with a minute to go then it probably wouldn't.


So how do you know it would have made any difference? Just wishful thinking IMO.

[Bristolhibby]

Whataboutery:

Two missed McFadden sitters

David Weir header headed off the line

Lee McCulloch shot handled inside the box

Match reports say Buffon spilled the ball into Ferguson’s path

Defo a game for VAR

I can still see the look of disappointment on my wee boys face

He could not believe how a Scotland player so obviously fouled could have the award go against him

Hey ho!

That one at the end was a stab in the heart. Such a bad decision.

A draw would have kept us in the mix and put the pressure on France. Can’t remember if they got a result in Ukraine or not in the end.

J

[Onceinawhile]

That one at the end was a stab in the heart. Such a bad decision.

A draw would have kept us in the mix and put the pressure on France. Can’t remember if they got a result in Ukraine or not in the end.

J

Think they drew 2-2 but they didn't need to win tbf.

Result in Georgia after all the rangers and celtic players pulled out is what killed us.

[tamig]

So how do you know it would have made any difference? Just wishful thinking IMO.

Its a very valid point. As the guy mentioned, the fourth goal was a breakaway when the Germans were pushing for an equaliser. At 2-2 its a fair assumption that situation wouldn’t have happened. In my opinion.

[CockneyRebel]

Its a very valid point. As the guy mentioned, the fourth goal was a breakaway when the Germans were pushing for an equaliser. At 2-2 its a fair assumption that situation wouldn’t have happened. In my opinion.



I rest my case.

[Paul1642]

The word iconic has been slightly lost on this thread.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We'd have had two goals against Hearts.

Probably the most widely known recently would be Henrys handballs against Ireland?

That's the one which immediately came to mind.

Mourinho's Porto wouldn't have won the Champions League in 2004 with VAR. I was at Old Trafford when Paul Scholes scored a goal wrongly ruled offside which would have knocked them out. Porto went on to win the cup.

[tamig]

I rest my case.

Explain. A team scored 4 goals but had the 3rd been disallowed there is every chance the game would have taken a different course. You can’t just strike the disputed goal off the final score and claim as fact that that’s the end of the story. You are making an assumption yourself.

[Here’s Lucy!]

Geoff Hurst.

[Smartie]

Explain. A team scored 4 goals but had the 3rd been disallowed there is every chance the game would have taken a different course. You can’t just strike the disputed goal off the final score and claim as fact that that’s the end of the story. You are making an assumption yourself.

We got a ridiculous goal allowed that didn't cross the line in a big relegation game against Dunfermline iirc under Calderwood (Hanlon scored).

We ended up pumping them in a comfortable win, but it was made far more comfortable by that goal being allowed at that stage in the game.

[BILLYHIBS]

And the winner is......this!

https://youtu.be/ygVgxYa3mlo

[tamig]

We got a ridiculous goal allowed that didn't cross the line in a big relegation game against Dunfermline iirc under Calderwood (Hanlon scored).

We ended up pumping them in a comfortable win, but it was made far more comfortable by that goal being allowed at that stage in the game.

Exactly. You can’t just remove the dodgy goal and say the game would have ended 3-0 with any certainty. Although gloryhunter might disagree. I’m sure that game was 4-0 and Matt Doherty scored the opener.

[we are hibs]

[QUOTE=greiggy;5767492]1966 World Cup final


Only if you are ABE.
VAR would certainly have allowed the other 3 goals so no change in the actual result. VAR would have cancelled the "hand of God" so think you are on the wrong track here.

"Hand of god" when the ball blatantly hit his head and went in?

[Broken Gnome]

Exactly. You can’t just remove the dodgy goal and say the game would have ended 3-0 with any certainty. Although gloryhunter might disagree. I’m sure that game was 4-0 and Matt Doherty scored the opener.

I don't say literally lightly, but that might literally be the one outstanding occasion that the dodgy goal could have been removed and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

[SChibs]

Explain. A team scored 4 goals but had the 3rd been disallowed there is every chance the game would have taken a different course. You can’t just strike the disputed goal off the final score and claim as fact that that’s the end of the story. You are making an assumption yourself.

Yup. People talk about Oli Shaws goal as if it robbed us of a victory. The whole game would have been different and as far as I remember it happened pretty early in the game

[CockneyRebel]

Explain. A team scored 4 goals but had the 3rd been disallowed there is every chance the game would have taken a different course. You can’t just strike the disputed goal off the final score and claim as fact that that’s the end of the story. You are making an assumption yourself.


FFS you keep proving my point. We are both making assumptions. I made the assumption that England would have won 3 - 2 anyway. You made the assumption that the game would have panned out differently without that goal. The game can't get replayed and NOBODY (not me, not you, NOBODY) knows how the game would have gone if the goal had been chalked off.

Some say the "hand of God" goal evened things out (against England yeah but didn't do Germany much good so not really even) but that was blatant cheating and a different subject entirely.

My main point/thrust was objecting to folk using terms such as assume, probably, not necessarily, and the like and then indicating that it proved a point

[hibee62]

Its a very valid point. As the guy mentioned, the fourth goal was a breakaway when the Germans were pushing for an equaliser. At 2-2 its a fair assumption that situation wouldn’t have happened. In my opinion.

In the interests of fairness, roles were reversed in 2010. England goal disallowed on the stroke of half time (a couple of feet over the line) which would have made it 2-2. Second half: the Germans picked England off at will for 4-1.

[CockneyRebel]

Exactly. You can’t just remove the dodgy goal and say the game would have ended 3-0 with any certainty. Although gloryhunter might disagree. I’m sure that game was 4-0 and Matt Doherty scored the opener.


I agree wholeheartedly that taking away or awarding a goal/penalty would and does change a game but not necessarily the result (I agree that it would in many or even most cases but nobody knows for sure). You can take a good guess or make a viable assumption but it doesn't prove anything one way or another.

[Onceinawhile]

We got a ridiculous goal allowed that didn't cross the line in a big relegation game against Dunfermline iirc under Calderwood (Hanlon scored).

We ended up pumping them in a comfortable win, but it was made far more comfortable by that goal being allowed at that stage in the game.

That was the 4th in a 4 nil win was it not?

[BILLYHIBS]

Yup. People talk about Oli Shaws goal as if it robbed us of a victory. The whole game would have been different and as far as I remember it happened pretty early in the game

Might have done wonders for his career confidence wise if allowed to stand

Perfectly legitimate goal

Every chance we would have gone on to win the game

Robbed again at the PBS

[tamig]

I agree wholeheartedly that taking away or awarding a goal/penalty would and does change a game but not necessarily the result (I agree that it would in many or even most cases but nobody knows for sure). You can take a good guess or make a viable assumption but it doesn't prove anything one way or another.

I don’t think anyone was claiming anything around the certainty of the outcome. You dismissed the guys point as if it was invalid. You are now saying none of us know how things would have panned out. We are agreed on that point. Nobody knows but it could have resulted in a different outcome. The gist of it is that none of us can give a definitive answer to the OP. The answer is that some outcomes may have been different had VAR been around. Fair enough?

[hfc rd]

That was the 4th in a 4 nil win was it not?


Yes. I’m sure were something like 3-0 up in the first 25 mins or something?

I remember we had a massive crowd that night as well.

[green with envy]

Fletcher's goal for Sheffield Wednesday 10 minutes ago would easily have been chalked off.

[wookie70]

Colin Campbell 1979 stonewall pen in Cup Final

[One Day Soon]

Sorry to harp on about this yet again, but Italy v South Korea in the 2002 World Cup. VAR would have disabled the effect of the bribery which clearly took place and the absolutely scandalous refereeing that rigged the match.

Cheating Ecuadorian ***t, Byron Moreno, would have been found out there and then. Instead we had to wait for his suspension for match fixing back home in Ecuador later that year to find out what he was really all about.

[Smartie]

That was the 4th in a 4 nil win was it not?

I had it in my mind that it was the third but I could be wrong.

I remember feeling that Hibs were quite comfortable when we were given it, and thinking that it would have been very controversial in a closer game.

[eastterrace]

Yes
I had it in my mind that it was the third but I could be wrong.

I remember feeling that Hibs were quite comfortable when we were given it, and thinking that it would have been very controversial in a closer game. sure it was the fourth goal so not really make much difference as Dunfermline were gash.

[Onceinawhile]

3 up after 15 minutes.

Hanlon got the 4th.

[007]

Buchwald's dive and play-acting to get Gazza booked in the semi at Italia '90. Buchwald should have been booked not Gazza.

[Hibeesmad]

Not sure if it has been mentioned already but the Falkirk handball at ER in the play offs

[Bostonhibby]

Yup. People talk about Oli Shaws goal as if it robbed us of a victory. The whole game would have been different and as far as I remember it happened pretty early in the gameTry as I might I'm still comfortable with the idea that the thieves got lucky again, this time at the expense of a terrific young player.

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[JimBHibees]

Buchwald's dive and play-acting to get Gazza booked in the semi at Italia '90. Buchwald should have been booked not Gazza.

Didn't really change the outcome though did it. Actually think it was a yellow but no doubt he exaggerated it hugely. That World Cup was one of the worst for play acting.

[allezsauzee]

Not sure if it has been mentioned already but the Falkirk handball at ER in the play offs

I'm not convinced with this one, it was such an obvious penalty that the only conclusion I can come to is that the officials didn't want to see it. Similarly at Ibrox when Lee McCulloch (i think) dragged the ball away from a Hibs player in the box with his arm.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Germany’s winning penalty against Argentina in the Italia 90 Final.

invisible foul on Rudi Voller. Denying Maradona a second world cup

[danhibees1875]

Germany’s winning penalty against Argentina in the Italia 90 Final.

invisible foul on Rudi Voller. Denying Maradona a second world cup

So England cheated Germany, Argentina cheated England, and Germany cheated Argentina - all evens itself out over a decade or two. :greengrin

I find it increasingly difficult to argue against having the best quality information available to referees to make the right decisions. But the illogical part of me still likes the levels of controversy that come from judgement and human error within football.

[Bristolhibby]

So England cheated Germany, Argentina cheated England, and Germany cheated Argentina - all evens itself out over a decade or two. :greengrin

I find it increasingly difficult to argue against having the best quality information available to referees to make the right decisions. But the illogical part of me still likes the levels of controversy that come from judgement and human error within football.

There is still controversy with VAR. however that’s because people don’t know the laws, it’s relative newness and novelty.

In 20 years we will look back and wonder WTF we did without VAR and goal line technology. (Neither of which we currently have in Scotland at the moment).

J

[iwasthere1972]

We got a ridiculous goal allowed that didn't cross the line in a big relegation game against Dunfermline iirc under Calderwood (Hanlon scored).

We ended up pumping them in a comfortable win, but it was made far more comfortable by that goal being allowed at that stage in the game.

Pretty sure that Pat Fenlon was the manager that night. Crowd numbers were swelled to some extent as your ticket that night was put in a big hat and if you were unlucky enough you had a chance of buying tickets for the Scottish Cup Final later that month. My ticket was pulled out the hat. :grr:

It was a rainy night but remember singing Sunshine on Leith at the final whistle. It was a great night and a huge relief to avoid relegation.

[HiBremian]

Would using it in the toilets at dens park in 1986 have been allowed?

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**** me. Am I not alone in having this memory of pishing up against a wall at that cup semi against the sheep? :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

**** me. Am I not alone in having this memory of pishing up against a wall at that cup semi against the sheep? :greengrin[emoji3]That brought a few panic stricken memories back. We went up in a mini bus and were stuck in traffic for ages. Missed the first ten minutes or so of the game. Another day of disaster following Hibs.

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[GloryGlory]

Schumacher on Battiston. 1982.

Was going to mention that.

A clear case of assault occasioning GBH.

[celthedd1]

Was going to mention that.

A clear case of assault occasioning GBH.

Chesterfield 1997 semi final v Middlesbrough, ball clearly in but not given preventing them a chance of the fa cup final.

[bringbackbenny]

John Macdonald

Polaris :)