What can we do?

[sauzee6_2]

Rangers fans can regularly be heard spouting their sectarian bile.

At today’s semi final Celtic fans could clearly be heard singing sectarian songs, whilst also abusing Derek McInnes.

I’m no fan of McInnes, but he was abused - no doubt.

Hearts fans do sing sectarian songs, albeit to a lesser extent.

I am sure there will be Hibs fans who are bigots, although I’ve not heard Hibs fans singing a sectarian song for a long, long time.

So my question is, what can we really do to stop this?

I’m no snowflake, but fed up hearing that this is deplorable, it’s unacceptable, a scourge on society....yet nothing changes!

Seriously, what can we do to make a stand and really get this out our game?

I’m fed up hearing this time after time, so asking, what lengths would people go to? Boycott big games? Group demonstrations? Or are we just complaining without any conviction?

Discuss,👍

[Diclonius]

In this thread: 5 pages of "what Celtic sing isn't sectarian", therefore proving that whataboutery ensures nothing will be done.

[Leith Green]

Rangers fans can regularly be heard spouting their sectarian bile.

At today’s semi final Celtic fans could clearly be heard singing sectarian songs, whilst also abusing Derek McInnes.

I’m no fan of McInnes, but he was abused - no doubt.

Hearts fans do sing sectarian songs, albeit to a lesser extent.

I am sure there will be Hibs fans who are bigots, although I’ve not heard Hibs fans singing a sectarian song for a long, long time.

So my question is, what can we really do to stop this?

I’m no snowflake, but fed up hearing that this is deplorable, it’s unacceptable, a scourge on society....yet nothing changes!

Seriously, what can we do to make a stand and really get this out our game?

I’m fed up hearing this time after time, so asking, what lengths would people go to? Boycott big games? Group demonstrations? Or are we just complaining without any conviction?

Discuss,👍


The line should be drawn at singing songs at someone due to their football allegiances. Anything over and above should be dealt with in the harshest punishment possible... Singing songs about someones race , faith , colour , sexuality, or beliefs is wrong and needs stamped out.. Our countries football teams , particularly the old firm are embarrassing and cringey. Just stick to giving pelters based on football its really that simple.

[sauzee6_2]

The line should be drawn at singing songs at someone due to their football allegiances. Anything over and above should be dealt with in the harshest punishment possible... Singing songs about someones race , faith , colour , sexuality, or beliefs is wrong and needs stamped out.. Our countries football teams , particularly the old firm are embarrassing and cringey. Just stick to giving pelters based on football its really that simple.

You mention the line should be drawn, what does that mean? What actions would be taken if the line was crossed?

[Scouse Hibee]

Do what I do,watch the match and don’t listen to it. I honestly have no idea why so many folk get so hung up on what is being sung these days. Even when at ER I genuinely couldn’t tell you what is sung by the away fans as I never listen.

[Hibeesmad]

It's a difficult one for clubs as they could say it's out of their control. Hibs and Hearts have both made efforts lately to show they are making an effort which probably couldn't be said about the Old Firm unless I have missed any sort of statement etc in recent times. If you begin to fine clubs and dock points for lets say sectarian abuse amongst supporters then there is going to be controversy about where the line is drawn as such. If you dock Celtic or The Rangers 5 points for evidence of sectarian abuse at a game from 20,000 people then should the same deduction be made to Kilmarnock or Hibs if there is evidence of 30 people also giving sectarian abuse at a game.

[Leith Green]

You mention the line should be drawn, what does that mean? What actions would be taken if the line was crossed?

The line between what is acceptable and what isn't is what i mean by that. Action needs to be taken by clubs and football authorities.

[sauzee6_2]

Do what I do,watch the match and don’t listen to it. I honestly have no idea why so many folk get so hung up on what is being sung these days. Even when at ER I genuinely couldn’t tell you what is sung by the away fans as I never listen.

Got to be honest, I find that hard to believe.

Are you honestly telling this forum you’ve never heard “hullo, hullo” or “boys of the old brigade “?

[sauzee6_2]

It's a difficult one for clubs as they could say it's out of their control. Hibs and Hearts have both made efforts lately to show they are making an effort which probably couldn't be said about the Old Firm unless I have missed any sort of statement etc in recent times. If you begin to fine clubs and dock points for lets say sectarian abuse amongst supporters then there is going to be controversy about where the line is drawn as such. If you dock Celtic or The Rangers 5 points for evidence of sectarian abuse at a game from 20,000 people then should the same deduction be made to Kilmarnock or Hibs if there is evidence of 30 people also giving sectarian abuse at a game.

Very interesting.

Given it’s likely (largely due to budgets) that Celtic and Rangers will finish first and second in the league, if there was a punishment of 20 points would this stop the problem?

[Scouse Hibee]

Got to be honest, I find that hard to believe.

Are you honestly telling this forum you’ve never heard “hullo, hullo” or “boys of the old brigade “?

I have heard hullo hullo being chanted as it’s pretty hard to miss a chant like that, as for any other words or boys of the old brigade (didn’t know what it was called until you told me) I couldn’t tell you the words or what they are singing about. I’m not interested so just do not listen.

[Hibeesmad]

Very interesting.

Given it’s likely (largely due to budgets) that Celtic and Rangers will finish first and second in the league, if there was a punishment of 20 points would this stop the problem?

It may stop a few folk from getting involved but to be honest I think it's mostly a personal thing with most old firm fans which makes the chances of it going away quite difficult.

[Paisley Hibby]

Celtic and Rangers make lots of money off the back of sectarianism - they claim to abhor it but have no real incentive to actually do anything about it. Dock them points every time though and they would soon stamp it out. But as the Scottish football authorities also benefit from Celtic and Rangers wealth and sectarian rivalry (eg TV deals on Old Firm games) they'll never do more than pay lip service.

[SChibs]

The line should be drawn at singing songs at someone due to their football allegiances. Anything over and above should be dealt with in the harshest punishment possible... Singing songs about someones race , faith , colour , sexuality, or beliefs is wrong and needs stamped out.. Our countries football teams , particularly the old firm are embarrassing and cringey. Just stick to giving pelters based on football its really that simple.

Easier said than done. Think about all the Stevie Fulton jokes over the years. Someone being ugly isn't anything to do with football alleigences

[Dashing Bob S]

Set up machine gun turrets pointing in towards the south stand. At the first whiff of sectarian nonsense from Johnny hun pepper the away stand with bullets. The rest would soon get the message.

[munchar]

Discuss,👍[/QUOTE]

Imo, players hearing things about their “lack of ability” is deemed to be acceptable banter. Any homophobic, racist or sectarian shouts is toatally unacceptable. How do we eradicate it? With the technology we have now, I’m sure CCTV can pick out the culprits. It’s not really the clubs fault for the actions of these bigots, & so punishing them with point deductions would only punish the club & well behaved fans unfairly. Emotions run high at football, so maybe a 1, 2 or 3 strikes and your out type of ban would discourage this behavior. We can all do things we regret, so an instant ban is maybe harsh, but repeated misbehavior should result in short & then long term bans.

[Stonewall]

Discuss,👍

Imo, players hearing things about their “lack of ability” is deemed to be acceptable banter. Any homophobic, racist or sectarian shouts is toatally unacceptable. How do we eradicate it? With the technology we have now, I’m sure CCTV can pick out the culprits. It’s not really the clubs fault for the actions of these bigots, & so punishing them with point deductions would only punish the club & well behaved fans unfairly. Emotions run high at football, so maybe a 1, 2 or 3 strikes and your out type of ban would discourage this behavior. We can all do things we regret, so an instant ban is maybe harsh, but repeated misbehavior should result in short & then long term bans.[/QUOTE]

I look forward to Lennon coming out supporting McInnes for reacting to the sectarian abuse as he has himself. I’m listening Neil...

[hibby rae]

I went into Malones on Morrison St to watch the Liverpool game just as the Celtic game ended. The bar began playing 'Oh Ah Up the RA' with quite a few Celtic folk singing along. Can you imagine if people were singing songs supporting Al Qaeda? Not even sure what the laws are for this but the bar is across the road from West End Police Station.

[Bishop Hibee]

Thing is, the use of ‘Fenian’ and ‘Orange’ in chants at football had pretty much died out. David Murray did his part with oldco. Newco revived it as Green etc positively encouraged the bigots in their support. The bigots in the Celtc support are following suit. Add in the toxic ‘I can say anything now’ atmosphere we have in politics and we have our current situation.

Personally, I feel anybody chanting using these terms in a derogatory fashion should face punishment.

The worst song I’ve ever heard at ER is Huns singing the famine song. Nothing was done. Racist and sectarian.

[Sammy7nil]

Got to be honest, I find that hard to believe.

Are you honestly telling this forum you’ve never heard “hullo, hullo” or “boys of the old brigade “?

Definitely heard it but it is background noise i could not tell you the words and have no interest. If others are offended by those songs i support their right to take action.

[Ozyhibby]

Hibs are happy to keep selling them tickets to sing their songs to our kids so no point us worrying about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hulk1875]

I got brought up in the east terracing and the songs I heard and learned in this day and age isn’t allowed by the supporter polis. I’m 30 I don’t know many of the new songs which i do enjoy. But the terrace chants were the best no matter how bad they were at the time. WE ARE HIBERNIAN FC WE HATE JAM TARTS AND WE HATE DUNDEE

[GGTTH1980]

I went into Malones on Morrison St to watch the Liverpool game just as the Celtic game ended. The bar began playing 'Oh Ah Up the RA' with quite a few Celtic folk singing along. Can you imagine if people were singing songs supporting Al Qaeda? Not even sure what the laws are for this but the bar is across the road from West End Police Station.

I went to Malones for the derby and it was pretty much the same but Hibs fans singing IRA songs

[Dr What If?]

Hibs are happy to keep selling them tickets to sing their songs to our kids so no point us worrying about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am living proof that this impacts our own home support. My wee one just turned seven and I have been patiently waiting to take him to a Hibs game at an age where he would actually enjoy it. Now we are there I am hesitant, he is still so young I don't want to subject him to the kind of vile abuse that comes from the visiting fans (and yes, even our own). Protecting my boy from the evil he might hear outweighs my love of Hibs. I've figured I will take him to some of the smaller ties next season but my conscience will not let me take him to see the 'bigger' teams visits our holy ground.

[#2 Double Tap]

Set up machine gun turrets pointing in towards the south stand. At the first whiff of sectarian nonsense from Johnny hun pepper the away stand with bullets. The rest would soon get the message.


haha reminded me of this song


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWBjwgxEawo

[DetroitHibs]

Personally the away end could sing whatever the hell they wanted and it wouldn’t bother me. Where I draw the line is players been racially targeted and the likes.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Rangers fans can regularly be heard spouting their sectarian bile.

At today’s semi final Celtic fans could clearly be heard singing sectarian songs, whilst also abusing Derek McInnes.

I’m no fan of McInnes, but he was abused - no doubt.

Hearts fans do sing sectarian songs, albeit to a lesser extent.

I am sure there will be Hibs fans who are bigots, although I’ve not heard Hibs fans singing a sectarian song for a long, long time.

So my question is, what can we really do to stop this?

I’m no snowflake, but fed up hearing that this is deplorable, it’s unacceptable, a scourge on society....yet nothing changes!

Seriously, what can we do to make a stand and really get this out our game?

I’m fed up hearing this time after time, so asking, what lengths would people go to? Boycott big games? Group demonstrations? Or are we just complaining without any conviction?

Discuss,👍

Well … I made a suggestion of where we could start on another thread and absolutely got my arse kicked over it.

[proud_and_green]

Personally the away end could sing whatever the hell they wanted and it wouldn’t bother me. Where I draw the line is players been racially targeted and the likes.And there is a difference how?

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[proud_and_green]

I am living proof that this impacts our own home support. My wee one just turned seven and I have been patiently waiting to take him to a Hibs game at an age where he would actually enjoy it. Now we are there I am hesitant, he is still so young I don't want to subject him to the kind of vile abuse that comes from the visiting fans (and yes, even our own). Protecting my boy from the evil he might hear outweighs my love of Hibs. I've figured I will take him to some of the smaller ties next season but my conscience will not let me take him to see the 'bigger' teams visits our holy ground.Yep me too!

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[proud_and_green]

Definitely heard it but it is background noise i could not tell you the words and have no interest. If others are offended by those songs i support their right to take action.I can understand not being personally offended - and I tend to that view myself - but that is not the same as accepting it as a cultural and societal norm.
Surely we must want better for our society than hatred based on outdated views based on ignorance and mob mentality.

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[neil7908]

Personally the away end could sing whatever the hell they wanted and it wouldn’t bother me. Where I draw the line is players been racially targeted and the likes.

What about homophobic chanting? Odds are that plenty of Hibs fans (and likely a player a some point) are gay. I'm not sure it makes sense to draw a line that allows anything but racism.

[neil7908]

Do what I do,watch the match and don’t listen to it. I honestly have no idea why so many folk get so hung up on what is being sung these days. Even when at ER I genuinely couldn’t tell you what is sung by the away fans as I never listen.

Genuine question - how do you not listen? You can close your eyes but not your ears surely?

I guess it may depend where you sit in the ground but when there are 4k of them in the south stand belting out bile I personally can't physically ignore it.

I do generally sit in the West Stand closer to that's end of the ground so that may be part of it.

[.Sean.]

I went to Malones for the derby and it was pretty much the same but Hibs fans singing IRA songs
Baffling.

Its unfortunate but there are a fair number of plastic, wannabe Celtic, Irish Rebel loving bams in our support.

[DetroitHibs]

What about homophobic chanting? Odds are that plenty of Hibs fans (and likely a player a some point) are gay. I'm not sure it makes sense to draw a line that allows anything but racism.

Homophobic I wouldn’t condone either. But where do you draw the line exactly? Is the “sumo” chant and making fun of overweight players out the window too? Bald, ugly? Gazza, Nade, Fulton all took abuse based on there looks and size.

[Smartie]

Homophobic I wouldn’t condone either. But where do you draw the line exactly? Is the “sumo” chant and making fun of overweight players out the window too? Bald, ugly? Gazza, Nade, Fulton all took abuse based on there looks and size.

I think this is the valid point that Gordon Strachan was trying to make, albeit in a ridiculously clumsy fashion.

Abuse is abuse, why does our moral compass allow and encourage some types yet abhor others?

[neil7908]

Homophobic I wouldn’t condone either. But where do you draw the line exactly? Is the “sumo” chant and making fun of overweight players out the window too? Bald, ugly? Gazza, Nade, Fulton all took abuse based on there looks and size.

Just to be clear I'm not a having a go at you and don't think for a second that you're condoning other forms of abuse but you can't say as you did earlier "I draw the line at racism" and then later on say "but where do you draw the line?"- you've just drawn it and presumably have a reason for doing so.

Pretty much all society is are lines we draw about what you can and cannot do. We have legislation on things like hate speech for a reason and imo those are fairly clear in law and the difference between insults and something else. You may argue or disagree with the lines but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have them.

As horrendous as racism is, I personally don't think we can have a tough line on that but then not mention sectarianism, homophobia, sexism etc. There are laws on these types of abuse and saying things like this on the street are liable to get you in trouble in a way calling someone fat wouldn't. I don't see why being in a football ground should make a difference.

[makaveli1875]

Think it would be better to deal with the Coin throwing , smoke bombs , coconuts , folk running on the pitch etc before someone loses an eye . Once thats under control they can start worrying about what ***** folkare chanting

[Scouse Hibee]

Genuine question - how do you not listen? You can close your eyes but not your ears surely?

I guess it may depend where you sit in the ground but when there are 4k of them in the south stand belting out bile I personally can't physically ignore it.

I do generally sit in the West Stand closer to that's end of the ground so that may be part of it.

I sit in the West Upper seat 42 so not that far from the away support too. Pretty easy really just like when you don’t listen to what people are saying in a normal conversation.

[hibee]

Do what I do,watch the match and don’t listen to it. I honestly have no idea why so many folk get so hung up on what is being sung these days. Even when at ER I genuinely couldn’t tell you what is sung by the away fans as I never listen.

I don’t know what they sing either, I genuinely have no interest in religion, as far as I’m concerned it’s all made up nonsense so if someone’s signing about it that’s just fictional rubbish too.

[Ozyhibby]

Homophobic I wouldn’t condone either. But where do you draw the line exactly? Is the “sumo” chant and making fun of overweight players out the window too? Bald, ugly? Gazza, Nade, Fulton all took abuse based on there looks and size.

I think the line has to be drawn at targeting people’s faith or sexuality. If you must abuse players, stick to making it about their behaviour and not what they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

Think it would be better to deal with the Coin throwing , smoke bombs , coconuts , folk running on the pitch etc before someone loses an eye . Once thats under control they can start worrying about what ***** folkare chanting

Why can’t we try and tackle both at the same time? Separate issues, but no reason why we can’t take steps to address both issues simultaneously.

[The Spaceman]

Celtic statement:

"Chanting of this nature should have no place in football and we condemn this wholeheartedly. We hope the authorities also take the same interest in offensive chanting directed at Celtic Football Club and our supporters at yesterday's match and other games."

A predictably empty, classless, tit-for-tat statement from Celtic.

[Diclonius]

"Aye we did a bad thing but everyone else is worse" - basically the Celtic statement.

[BILLYHIBS]

They have issued a counter claim that Aberdeen fans called their players and fans “paedos”. :confused:

[WeeRussell]

Do what I do,watch the match and don’t listen to it. I honestly have no idea why so many folk get so hung up on what is being sung these days. Even when at ER I genuinely couldn’t tell you what is sung by the away fans as I never listen.

I don’t think many of us on here are actually offended by it, but just not wanting to turn a blind eye and pretend it’s acceptable, which it absolutely is not.

As an aside. Singing about people being dead/child molesters also crosses the line in my opinion. Some of our own efforts in recent years have been more offensive than much of the regular bile from the West, and really really not liking someone isn’t an excuse.

What can we do outside ourselves and our own support? Not an awful lot unfortunately.

[Smartie]

There's a bit of me is quietly pleased with Hibs throughout this. We've had a few incidents where our fans have behaved badly, our club has come out swiftly and decisively and with no excuses got tough with dealing with the problems.

That Celtic statement is nothing short of a disgrace, and exactly what you'd expect from a club with so little class.

[basehibby]

Rangers fans can regularly be heard spouting their sectarian bile.

At today’s semi final Celtic fans could clearly be heard singing sectarian songs, whilst also abusing Derek McInnes.

I’m no fan of McInnes, but he was abused - no doubt.

Hearts fans do sing sectarian songs, albeit to a lesser extent.

I am sure there will be Hibs fans who are bigots, although I’ve not heard Hibs fans singing a sectarian song for a long, long time.

So my question is, what can we really do to stop this?

I’m no snowflake, but fed up hearing that this is deplorable, it’s unacceptable, a scourge on society....yet nothing changes!

Seriously, what can we do to make a stand and really get this out our game?

I’m fed up hearing this time after time, so asking, what lengths would people go to? Boycott big games? Group demonstrations? Or are we just complaining without any conviction?

Discuss,👍

Re the bit in bold - from what I can gather songs identified as sectarian have pretty much been banished from the home stands at Easter Rd for over 30 years purely as a result of self-policing by the fans and nothing else - and NEVER ONCE in all that time have I heard the slightest acknowledgement of this from the media.

Nope - what I have perceived over the years in fact is the opposite. ie the media falling over themselves to aim criticism at the Hibs support at any and every opportunity with zero acknowledgement of this extremely positive fan lead initiative. Perhaps if this admirable and laudable aspect of fan behaviour and power was actually acknowledged, congratulated and held up as a positive example it might spark off some sort of competition for fans of respective clubs to outdo each other in good behaviour rather than the opposite. :dunno:

[WhileTheChief..]

Other than rival football fans, nobody cares.

Sure, politicians will pay it lip service now and again but the general public don’t give a damn.

Brexit, Trump, Indy2 - these are things that folk talk about at work or round the dinner table or wherever, not sectarianism in Scotland.

When’s the last time any of you tried to discuss the subject with anyone that wasn’t into football?

I’ll bet none of you have, ever.

[WeeRussell]

Other than rival football fans, nobody cares.

Sure, politicians will pay it lip service now and again but the general public don’t give a damn.

Brexit, Trump, Indy2 - these are things that folk talk about at work or round the dinner table or wherever, not sectarianism in Scotland.

When’s the last time any of you tried to discuss the subject with anyone that wasn’t into football?

I’ll bet none of you have, ever.

Perhaps if the mainstream media didn’t turn a blind eye to it, we would?

Whenever it gets mentioned it’s made out to be unfortunate isolated incidents across all teams... not the constant by the main and almost sole protagonists that it really is.

[JXM73]

Only thing hibs can do is cut the away allocation but all that is doing is hurting our own pockets.

Provide the authorities and press photos of culprits and let them deal with it. If they chose to do hee haw we can say we provided evidence.

As for our own bams then ban them, hand evidence to police and failing that close sections of stands. Some one knows who threw the bottle and are just as bad imho of course

[Johnny Clash]

A lot of chants at football are purely designed to get a rise out the opposition. Some of it is witty and funny and some of it is hateful and horrible. If a chant aimed at the opposition got no reaction then it would be pointless continuing. I remember Aberdeen fans originally took the song about their alleged attraction to sheep very badly. Then, after a while they started cheering and applauding when it was sung then the red devils started singing it back. Hardly hear it nowadays - the rotters!

McInnes admits himself that he should have just ignored being called an ‘Orange B***’ the minute he reacts the Celtc fans got what they wanted. Would he have reacted if he was called a Sheep ****ging b*******? Part of his reaction was frustration the way the game was going.

Songs that could incite hatred and abuse are bang out of order. They ingrain a hatred into the minds of morons but how you deal with them isn’t easy. The more opposition fans react the more they’re sung but ignoring a serious problem isn’t the answer either. Maybe we should aim for 20,000 hibbys laughing at them as if we were watching a few thousand clowns performing in the away end?

[The 90+2]

It will never change. It’s the media’s dream plus Celtic and rangers are clubs who are bigger than the rest purely down to religious hate and unionist/republican roots.

[The 90+2]

A lot of chants at football are purely designed to get a rise out the opposition. Some of it is witty and funny and some of it is hateful and horrible. If a chant aimed at the opposition got no reaction then it would be pointless continuing. I remember Aberdeen fans originally took the song about their alleged attraction to sheep very badly. Then, after a while they started cheering and applauding when it was sung then the red devils started singing it back. Hardly hear it nowadays - the rotters!

McInnes admits himself that he should have just ignored being called an ‘Orange B***’ the minute he reacts the Celtc fans got what they wanted. Would he have reacted if he was called a Sheep ****ging b*******? Part of his reaction was frustration the way the game was going.

Songs that could incite hatred and abuse are bang out of order. They ingrain a hatred into the minds of morons but how you deal with them isn’t easy. The more opposition fans react the more they’re sung but ignoring a serious problem isn’t the answer either. Maybe we should aim for 20,000 hibbys laughing at them as if we were watching a few thousand clowns performing in the away end?

McInnes is a former hun player and grew up supporting them. The song isn’t sung to wind him or get a reaction it’s because I’m their pathetic minds he’s a sad orange bassa.

[Hibbyradge]

There's a bit of me is quietly pleased with Hibs throughout this. We've had a few incidents where our fans have behaved badly, our club has come out swiftly and decisively and with no excuses got tough with dealing with the problems.

That Celtic statement is nothing short of a disgrace, and exactly what you'd expect from a club with so little class.

Yet what Celtic said is almost exactly what Leeane Dempster is being criticised on here for not saying.

[WeeRussell]

McInnes is a former hun player and grew up supporting them. The song isn’t sung to wind him or get a reaction it’s because I’m their pathetic minds he’s a sad orange bassa.

I actually think it'll mostly be sung for the same reasons we would sing "jambo b****rt" but they're used to using the word 'orange'. Doesn't make it okay though.

[WhileTheChief..]

Perhaps if the mainstream media didn’t turn a blind eye to it, we would?

Whenever it gets mentioned it’s made out to be unfortunate isolated incidents across all teams... not the constant by the main and almost sole protagonists that it really is.

I doubt it.

If the sectarian singing was being done by fans of a couple of rugby clubs instead of the Old Firm it wouldn’t be discussed on here at all.

If the OP is so offended by it then I’d ask him what he has done himself other than bump his gums on here?

I’d guess nothing. Same as everyone else.

[Iggy Pope]

There's a bit of me is quietly pleased with Hibs throughout this. We've had a few incidents where our fans have behaved badly, our club has come out swiftly and decisively and with no excuses got tough with dealing with the problems.

That Celtic statement is nothing short of a disgrace, and exactly what you'd expect from a club with so little class.

On the Whataboutery thread though you are less convinced that our club is tough it seems. More the sort of club with a ‘blue pound’ motivation.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?339032-Whataboutary-Club-of-the-Month-for-April&p=5766017#post5766017

Make your mind up?

[Smartie]

On the Whataboutery thread though you are less convinced that our club is tough it seems. More the sort of club with a ‘blue pound’ motivation.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?339032-Whataboutary-Club-of-the-Month-for-April&p=5766017#post5766017

Make your mind up?

"Recent".

I've been impressed with the "recent" tough talk.

That is in contrast to what I consider to be a weak stance regarding sectarian abuse of our managers, filling the away end with Rangers fans, urging us to "move on" following the Rangers cheating fiasco prior to that.

I'm looking forward to seeing if Hibs continue their tough stance, which is to be applauded, when we are faced with what is inevitably going to come over the coming weeks, months, years.

My mind is made up. I hope the minds at Hibs are too.

As I said - if Rangers want the full away end at Easter Road (and to take tickets that would in all likelihood be unsold) they can have them on the condition that they drag themselves into the 21st century and refrain from sectarian chanting for the couple of hours they are in OUR ground.

[Iggy Pope]

"Recent".

I've been impressed with the "recent" tough talk.

That is in contrast to what I consider to be a weak stance regarding sectarian abuse of our managers, filling the away end with Rangers fans, urging us to "move on" following the Rangers cheating fiasco prior to that.

I'm looking forward to seeing if Hibs continue their tough stance, which is to be applauded, when we are faced with what is inevitably going to come over the coming weeks, months, years.

My mind is made up. I hope the minds at Hibs are too.

As I said - if Rangers want the full away end at Easter Road (and to take tickets that would in all likelihood be unsold) they can have them on the condition that they drag themselves into the 21st century and refrain from sectarian chanting for the couple of hours they are in OUR ground.

The Rangers were very “recently” at Easter Road and very audibly.

[Smartie]

The Rangers were very “recently” at Easter Road and very audibly.

Yep.

I didn't like it very much at all.

[WeeRussell]

I doubt it.

If the sectarian singing was being done by fans of a couple of rugby clubs instead of the Old Firm it wouldn’t be discussed on here at all.

If the OP is so offended by it then I’d ask him what he has done himself other than bump his gums on here?

I’d guess nothing. Same as everyone else.

Isn’t that why he’s asking what can be done? Maybe suggest something and he will.

And what’s wrong with him discussing it on here. If you don’t think it’s an issue or that anything should be done then that’s your prerogative and maybe you’re on the wrong thread?

[Onion]

Ok here's a idea. Anyone who went to the Scottish Cup game at Ibrox about 10 years ago where we won 3-0 (one of my favourites matches) will recall just how utterly irate the Huns got when Hibs fans started singing "We are the Peepul". They went spare.

Aberdeen fans took ironic ownership of "sheep ****ging *******s" a while back to good effect :) No opposing fans now sing that stuff.

We can render the Sevco bigots impotent and meaningless by singing their songs back at them (using the very same irony that Dons fans are so good at deploying). Something that fans can do, without need for politicians, authorities or weak clubs. Kill the problem and wind up the Huns in the process. What's not to like :cb

[Ozyhibby]

Ok here's a idea. Anyone who went to the Scottish Cup game at Ibrox about 10 years ago where we won 3-0 (one of my favourites matches) will recall just how utterly irate the Huns got when Hibs fans started singing "We are the Peepul". They went spare.

Aberdeen fans took ironic ownership of "sheep ****ging *******s" a while back to good effect :) No opposing fans now sing that stuff.

We can render the Sevco bigots impotent and meaningless by singing their songs back at them (using the very same irony that Dons fans are so good at deploying). Something that fans can do, without need for politicians, authorities or weak clubs. Kill the problem and wind up the Huns in the process. What's not to like :cb

You want Hibs fans to sing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Onion]

You want Hibs fans to sing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

[WeeRussell]

Ok here's a idea. Anyone who went to the Scottish Cup game at Ibrox about 10 years ago where we won 3-0 (one of my favourites matches) will recall just how utterly irate the Huns got when Hibs fans started singing "We are the Peepul". They went spare.

Aberdeen fans took ironic ownership of "sheep ****ging *******s" a while back to good effect :) No opposing fans now sing that stuff.

We can render the Sevco bigots impotent and meaningless by singing their songs back at them (using the very same irony that Dons fans are so good at deploying). Something that fans can do, without need for politicians, authorities or weak clubs. Kill the problem and wind up the Huns in the process. What's not to like :cb

Apart from anything else I can't see how this will kill the problem? It may drown out one or two of their songs when they start, but bigots will remain bigots?

[Since90+2]

Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

What are you suggesting we sing at them apart from we are the people?

[matty_f]

I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s not even a social issue.

Religion plays no part in your ability to get a job, an education, a fair trial or anything else these days.

It’s sticks and stones stuff at the football. Nothing else.

[Moulin Yarns]

Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

We're up to our knees in woolly socks?? :wink:

Suspenders on our thighs??

We are the Hibee fashion police

:greengrin

[Smartie]

I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

Why do you think the sectarian issue - which also existed in cities throughout England in the late 19th and early 20th centuries - died off everywhere else yet has continued to thrive in Scotland to the present day?

There are massive overlaps between football, religion/ sectarianism, politics and national identity that cannot be denied.

The Old Firm are a blight on Scottish society.

[Smartie]

It’s not even a social issue.

Religion plays no part in your ability to get a job, an education, a fair trial or anything else these days.

It’s sticks and stones stuff at the football. Nothing else.

The victims of the violence that exists following every Old Firm match might disagree that it is all "sticks and stones" stuff.

I know that the hospital staff who wait for the football fixtures to be announced before immediately requesting leave around Old Firm games would.

[JeMeSouviens]

Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

"Sing when we're transubtantiating, we only sing when we're transubstantiating ..."

Ok, it's a bit niche, I admit. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

"Sing when we're transubtantiating, we only sing when we're transubstantiating ..."

Ok, it's a bit niche, I admit. :greengrin

or

sing when you're bigots, You only sing when you're bigots

[WhileTheChief..]

The victims of the violence that exists following every Old Firm match might disagree that it is all "sticks and stones" stuff.

I know that the hospital staff who wait for the football fixtures to be announced before immediately requesting leave around Old Firm games would.

I’d imagine that more to do with alcohol than anything else.

[The Harp Awakes]

I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

Ah that old chestnut. Do away with the minority or minority choice and all will be well. There's a good few dictators and demagogues over the years tried that and failed.

There's the same proportion of Catholic schools in England and there is no issue there with religious bigotry. As others have said, the problem is primarily focused around 2 football clubs in the West. Take them to task and it will go a long way to fixing the wider social issue.

[One Day Soon]

"Sing when we're transubtantiating, we only sing when we're transubstantiating ..."

Ok, it's a bit niche, I admit. :greengrin


That's outstanding. May have to hum that one to myself at Mass on Sunday.

[NAE NOOKIE]

In my opinion the sectarian divide driven by religion in Scotland is all style and no substance.

What passes for Protestantism in this country is a hollow shell of the past, even people who would tick Protestant on a census form are a thousand miles away from the church going anti church of Rome zealots of pre 1970s Scotland. The chances that you will actively be discriminated against because you are a Catholic are probably slimmer than they have ever been .... in fact the only place you could point to it and be sure you have hit a bullseye is in the act of union which actively and unashamedly discriminates against Catholics.

Its incredible that the very cornerstones of the establishment which castigates the general public for acts of discrimination and sectarianism, politicians, the police the judiciary swear allegiance to a system which has bigotry and sectarianism at its very heart. The irony and stupefying hypocrisy of them allowing this state of affairs to exist, and continue to exist, and all the while railing against sectarianism for want of a better phrase 'beggars belief'

What the previously active and rampant divisions based on true religious bigotry have left as their legacy is two sides whose most vocal adherents are on the side of either pro or anti unionism … its dressed in a veneer of religion, but that's not the main driving force any more because next to none of the protagonists could prove in a court of law that they are in the slightest truly religious.

That of course doesn't make the effects any better. I don't know about Northern Ireland, but certainly in Scotland its become all about loyalty or not to the UK and whether or not Northern Ireland and now of course Scotland should remain a part of it. The defense of Protestantism angle which drove the Rangers side in the beginning is now very much unionism driven by 'Britishness' and loyalty to 'the crown' …. the adherence to and defence of those things because they were the bastions of Protestantism no longer matters … these things in themselves have now become the cause.

That's why more than any other institution in Scotland outside of the Orange Lodge and the Tory Party folk who follow The Rangers ( not all of them as the 2014 Glasgow voting clearly showed ) identify as unionists and proport to hate the SNP and the Scottish independence movement in general .. even though there isn't a shred of evidence to show that the movement for Scottish self determination is in any way driven by religion of any sort. Proof if it were needed that todays sectarianism is driven by unionists and royalists, not religious zealotry.

And breathe :greengrin

[matty_f]

Ah that old chestnut. Do away with the minority or minority choice and all will be well. There's a good few dictators and demagogues over the years tried that and failed.

There's the same proportion of Catholic schools in England and there is no issue there with religious bigotry. As others have said, the problem is primarily focused around 2 football clubs in the West. Take them to task and it will go a long way to fixing the wider social issue.

It's not to do with taking away the choice but increasing the inclusion and education across the board.

These kids can still be taught about Catholicism and associated values along with the other kids - education is key to it.

[ian cruise]

or

sing when you're bigots, You only sing when you're bigots

I think that's the best approach. Sing louder than them whether home or away and have a few songs, without any sectarian language, that point out how sad they really are with their songs acting like a comfort blanket. It's stop as soon as it's very obvious everyone is laughing at them instead of reacting to them (I include Celtic, hearts and anyone else singing sectarian songs/using sectarian language).

[Paisley Hibby]

or

sing when you're bigots, You only sing when you're bigots

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

[WeeRussell]

It’s not even a social issue.

Religion plays no part in your ability to get a job, an education, a fair trial or anything else these days.

It’s sticks and stones stuff at the football. Nothing else.

Neither does race or sexuality. Should we just give that the okay for abuse at football too?

[Smartie]

I’d imagine that more to do with alcohol than anything else.

It's that heady mix of Scottish blood, alcohol and hatred.

The first two happen every weekend, not without incident, but it goes off the scale whenever the Old Firm match is thrown in.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

We could do away with Catholics totally and make everyone the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibbyfraelibby]

We're up to our knees in woolly socks?? :wink:

Suspenders on our thighs??

We are the Hibee fashion police

:greengrin

Hello, Hello how are you Silly Boys?
Hello, Hello we'll know youse by your toys
You re up to your eyes in Action Men
Barbie Dolls and Ken
For you are the silly billy boys

[Scouse Hibee]

We don’t sing offensive songs
We don’t sing offensive songs
We’re better than you
We don’t sing offensive songs

[matty_f]

We could do away with Catholics totally and make everyone the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm all for it, do away with all religion - load of baloney anyway, imho.

[bigwheel]

I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

Or How about we teach people to accept people as they are rather than doing away with schools who want a certain religious approach to learning ??

[The Harp Awakes]

I'm all for it, do away with all religion - load of baloney anyway, imho.

:rolleyes:

Religionophobe alert. Where's all the Admins when you need them. Er, wait a minute................:tee hee:

[Bishop Hibee]

I'm all for it, do away with all religion - load of baloney anyway, imho.

Celebrate diversity 🙄

[matty_f]

Or How about we teach people to accept people as they are rather than doing away with schools who want a certain religious approach to learning ??

Yeah, that works as well.

My own opinion is that you'd see less sectarianism when people are together more. Perhaps made my point badly but what I was getting at was that instead of segregating schools, an inclusive system would be better.

The kids could still be taught religiously in an inclusive school - I didn't say the teaching needed to be different, but exposure to both on both sides of things would help improve understanding etc.

[matty_f]

Celebrate diversity 🙄

I'm all for diversity, folk can believe in what they want - and by extension in allowed to think it's nonsense.

[matty_f]

:rolleyes:

Religionophobe alert. Where's all the Admins when you need them. Er, wait a minute................:tee hee:

:greengrin

[bigwheel]

Yeah, that works as well.

My own opinion is that you'd see less sectarianism when people are together more. Perhaps made my point badly but what I was getting at was that instead of segregating schools, an inclusive system would be better.

The kids could still be taught religiously in an inclusive school - I didn't say the teaching needed to be different, but exposure to both on both sides of things would help improve understanding etc.

Like the spirit of that. But ultimately feel that it’s minorities who are picked on ..catholic’s being one type..and addressing those attitudes is the real battle

[matty_f]

Like the spirit of that. But ultimately feel that it’s minorities who are picked on ..catholic’s being one type..and addressing those attitudes is the real battle

I probably made the point badly by calling out the Catholic schools as the one to do away with, so just for the avoidance of doubt it would be just as helpful to send non-Catholics to Catholic schools, the principle is that if you start inclusion early doors the kids are less likely to grow up seeing anyone different (and that goes across race as well as religion) and so acceptance rather than dear/hate grows.

Channel 4 showed a program last night where an all-white class went into an all-Muslim class to learn together. It was a real eye opener for everyone.

[Bishop Hibee]

I'm all for diversity, folk can believe in what they want - and by extension in allowed to think it's nonsense.

You didn’t say that though. You said you wanted to do away with religion. I don’t want to ‘do away’ with atheism. People should be free to believe what they want.

[matty_f]

You didn’t say that though. You said you wanted to do away with religion. I don’t want to ‘do away’ with atheism. People should be free to believe what they want.

I said I'd do away with it, and I stand by that. I also think people can believe in what they want, it's their choice and if someone chooses to be religious then I can respect their faith.

I'm not saying I'd do away with religious people, by the way - I'm not advocating genocide, just to be clear.

[PatHead]

I probably made the point badly by calling out the Catholic schools as the one to do away with, so just for the avoidance of doubt it would be just as helpful to send non-Catholics to Catholic schools, the principle is that if you start inclusion early doors the kids are less likely to grow up seeing anyone different (and that goes across race as well as religion) and so acceptance rather than dear/hate grows.

Channel 4 showed a program last night where an all-white class went into an all-Muslim class to learn together. It was a real eye opener for everyone.

Nowadays a large proportion of pupils at Catholic schools are not Catholic. In RE classes children are taught about all types of faith and not only Catholicism. Looks like you already have a large element of non denomination in schools already.

[Bishop Hibee]

I said I'd do away with it, and I stand by that. I also think people can believe in what they want, it's their choice and if someone chooses to be religious then I can respect their faith.

I'm not saying I'd do away with religious people, by the way - I'm not advocating genocide, just to be clear.

This doesn’t make sense.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not daft enough to think football can eradicate bigotry and sectarianism in Scotland, but they do have the ability to rid it from football.

As soon as those songs are sung, there should be someone in the stands in contact with the ref, and he gets the ref to take the teams off.

The clubs who are guilty are given a 3-0 defeat and thats the end of it.

The rest of society can do what they like, but football has the tools to get rid of this problem in football grounds.

[matty_f]

This doesn’t make sense.

Makes sense to me. Personally I'd do away with religion (my opinion), it's not up to me and let's face it, you can't do away with something that deep rooted but I completely respect people's right to believe in something and have faith, that's their choice.

[WhileTheChief..]

The simplest, easiest way to deal with this, is to not give tickets to Celtic or Rangers fans.

Problem solved in one swift stroke.

Ignore the league’s rules for once and make a stand. Dress it up as being against sectarianism or whatever you like.

We take a financial hit but you never know, maybe we can fill the stand with everyone that stays away cause of the language.

Also means no away days in Glasgow so it pretty much solves the loyalty point thing too!

Genius.

[Bishop Hibee]

Makes sense to me. Personally I'd do away with religion (my opinion), it's not up to me and let's face it, you can't do away with something that deep rooted but I completely respect people's right to believe in something and have faith, that's their choice.

They’re trying to get rid of it in China. They’ve got a million Muslims in re education camps and tens of thousands of Christians in jail with churches demolished. This is the practical face of ‘doing away with religion’.

Back to the OP, I’d like to see Hibs give clubs whose fans use ‘orange’ or ‘fenian’ as an insult inside Easter Road less tickets for the next game. If it continues, less and less until it stops or they have no fans.

[matty_f]

They’re trying to get rid of it in China. They’ve got a million Muslims in re education camps and tens of thousands of Christians in jail with churches demolished. This is the practical face of ‘doing away with religion’.

Back to the OP, I’d like to see Hibs give clubs whose fans use ‘orange’ or ‘fenian’ as an insult inside Easter Road less tickets for the next game. If it continues, less and less until it stops or they have no fans.

That's a bit of a jump from what I was meaning to the point of being ridiculous. If you took that from my posts you've clearly misinterpreted them.

[One Day]

We're up to our knees in woolly socks?? :wink:

Suspenders on our thighs??

We are the Hibee fashion police

:greengrin

Brilliant

[Besties Debut]

I'm not daft enough to think football can eradicate bigotry and sectarianism in Scotland, but they do have the ability to rid it from football.

As soon as those songs are sung, there should be someone in the stands in contact with the ref, and he gets the ref to take the teams off.

The clubs who are guilty are given a 3-0 defeat and thats the end of it.

The rest of society can do what they like, but football has the tools to get rid of this problem in football grounds. Thats a great idea. The next time we are getting beat of hearts or the huns i can belt out The Sash and Hibs will be awarded a 3-0 victory.

[blackpoolhibs]

Thats a great idea. The next time we are getting beat of hearts or the huns i can belt out The Sash and Hibs will be awarded a 3-0 victory.

Aye because thats what will happen.:rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

Thats a great idea. The next time we are getting beat of hearts or the huns i can belt out The Sash and Hibs will be awarded a 3-0 victory.

It would only be for mass singing so unless you have 1000 equally daft mates then it won’t work.
Strict liability should only be for incidents where there is mass singing not for single idiots running on pitch or throwing things. We have the law for dealing with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

It would only be for mass singing so unless you have 1000 equally daft mates then it won’t work.
Strict liability should only be for incidents where there is mass singing not for single idiots running on pitch or throwing things. We have the law for dealing with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not only that, i'm presuming he'd be belting out the sash in the hibs section of the ground, se we'd actually get the punishment for singing sectarian pish.

I'm pretty sure he'd get a slap round the earhole if he was spouting that pish anywhere in the Hibs sections at easter road or at any away game.

[WhileTheChief..]

The Sash does have a kinda catchy tune to it!

[Moulin Yarns]

The Sash does have a kinda catchy tune to it!

Glad it's not just me 😉

A good beat for striding out on a long walk.

[Brizo]

I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.


The old Chick Young / Derek Ferguson / Gordon Smith deflection tactic.... blame the Catholic Schools.

Catholic schools exist in every mainland UK city- London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Dundee, Aberdeen etc etc. Logic would suggest that if faith schools are an incubator for sectarianism these cities would experience football related and societal related sectarianism similar to Glasgow and west central Scotland.

That patently isn't the case. Cities like Manchester and Liverpool with similar demographics to Glasgow had societal sectarianism in the 19th and into the 20th century but have moved on from those days so the question must be why hasn't Glasgow. In my view its the OF who are the incubator for a sectarianism which is now all about tribal labels rather than any actual religious beliefs.

The other question to ask (and its probably one for the Holy Ground) is why faith schools remain so popular in essentially secular 21st century Scotland. Of course the ultimate irony is what keeps them viable is the large number of Protestants, Muslims, Sikhs, agnostics and even atheist parents who choose to send their children to them.

[Ozyhibby]

The old Chick Young / Derek Ferguson / Gordon Smith deflection tactic.... blame the Catholic Schools.

Catholic schools exist in every mainland UK city- London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Dundee, Aberdeen etc etc. Logic would suggest that if faith schools are an incubator for sectarianism these cities would experience football related and societal related sectarianism similar to Glasgow and west central Scotland.

That patently isn't the case. Cities like Manchester and Liverpool with similar demographics to Glasgow had societal sectarianism in the 19th and into the 20th century but have moved on from those days so the question must be why hasn't Glasgow. In my view its the OF who are the incubator for a sectarianism which is now all about tribal labels rather than any actual religious beliefs.

The other question to ask (and its probably one for the Holy Ground) is why faith schools remain so popular in essentially secular 21st century Scotland. Of course the ultimate irony is what keeps them viable is the large number of Protestants, Muslims, Sikhs, agnostics and even atheist parents who choose to send their children to them.

That last paragraph is spot on. The churches are empty on a Sunday but schools are bursting at the seams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

The old Chick Young / Derek Ferguson / Gordon Smith deflection tactic.... blame the Catholic Schools.

Catholic schools exist in every mainland UK city- London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Dundee, Aberdeen etc etc. Logic would suggest that if faith schools are an incubator for sectarianism these cities would experience football related and societal related sectarianism similar to Glasgow and west central Scotland.

That patently isn't the case. Cities like Manchester and Liverpool with similar demographics to Glasgow had societal sectarianism in the 19th and into the 20th century but have moved on from those days so the question must be why hasn't Glasgow. In my view its the OF who are the incubator for a sectarianism which is now all about tribal labels rather than any actual religious beliefs.

The other question to ask (and its probably one for the Holy Ground) is why faith schools remain so popular in essentially secular 21st century Scotland. Of course the ultimate irony is what keeps them viable is the large number of Protestants, Muslims, Sikhs, agnostics and even atheist parents who choose to send their children to them.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post and should have pointed out that by saying the Catholic schools I was just taking them as an example.

My point, albeit poorly made, was that inclusive schools (where religious teaching could still take place) would help build tolerance and undersanding across all communities and ultimately would help with racism and sectarianism etc, in the same way that having mixed sex classes helped with sexism.

I understand also from another poster that there are already pupils from multiple religions that attend Catholic schools, and so hopefully we see this help the situation. Unfortunatley I doubt that the kids of parents who already hold bigotted beliefs are the ones that are attending these schools, so it won't change as much as hoped.

To be clear though, I have no issue with Catholic schools and I am not suggesting for a minute that Catholics are responsible for sectarianism.

[Brizo]

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post and should have pointed out that by saying the Catholic schools I was just taking them as an example.

My point, albeit poorly made, was that inclusive schools (where religious teaching could still take place) would help build tolerance and undersanding across all communities and ultimately would help with racism and sectarianism etc, in the same way that having mixed sex classes helped with sexism.

I understand also from another poster that there are already pupils from multiple religions that attend Catholic schools, and so hopefully we see this help the situation. Unfortunatley I doubt that the kids of parents who already hold bigotted beliefs are the ones that are attending these schools, so it won't change as much as hoped.

To be clear though, I have no issue with Catholic schools and I am not suggesting for a minute that Catholics are responsible for sectarianism.

Cheers for that explanation :flag::aok:

[Besties Debut]

It would only be for mass singing so unless you have 1000 equally daft mates then it won’t work.
Strict liability should only be for incidents where there is mass singing not for single idiots running on pitch or throwing things. We have the law for dealing with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I was ripping the piss out Blackpools insane idea. Spotters in the stands with a hotline to the ref listening out for any bigoted chanting. Once they think they hear something they radio the ref who immediately stops the game and takes the players of the pitch. The team of the fans who were chanting are then handed a 3-0 loss. Too bad if you have paid 30 quid for a ticket and the game is stopped after 5 minutes. I thought our donkey bothering friend was joking but he was actually being serious.

[Moulin Yarns]

I was ripping the piss out Blackpools insane idea. Spotters in the stands with a hotline to the ref listening out for any bigoted chanting. Once they think they hear something they radio the ref who immediately stops the game and takes the players of the pitch. The team of the fans who were chanting are then handed a 3-0 loss. Too bad if you have paid 30 quid for a ticket and the game is stopped after 5 minutes. I thought our donkey bothering friend was joking but he was actually being serious.

How to make friends and influence people :rolleyes:

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Wasn't there a list of unacceptable songs/names published a few years ago? Whatever happened to it?

Reintroduce that and redefine what a hate crime is. Singing someone is a fat so and so IMO is a millions miles away from many of the songs old firm clubs (and a minority of hibs/hearts fans choose to sing) about religion and political battles

Fans singing billy boys? Warning
Fans singing it again? Individual Banning Orders
A third time? SFA involvement with fines/stadium closure within remit
STILL at it? Point deduction

The judicial system is happy to make a Hibs fans a scapegoat in the stand against fans entering the field of play. About time we started getting heavy with serial offenders here and it will soon get through

their are deeper societal issues, but that's another story

[blackpoolhibs]

I was ripping the piss out Blackpools insane idea. Spotters in the stands with a hotline to the ref listening out for any bigoted chanting. Once they think they hear something they radio the ref who immediately stops the game and takes the players of the pitch. The team of the fans who were chanting are then handed a 3-0 loss. Too bad if you have paid 30 quid for a ticket and the game is stopped after 5 minutes. I thought our donkey bothering friend was joking but he was actually being serious.

Yip 100% serious, or should we just continue to do the same as we have done for years, because thats worked well?