PDA

View Full Version : Rambling Queen Ann statement incoming...



G B Young
11-04-2019, 03:08 PM
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-statement

JimBHibees
11-04-2019, 03:13 PM
100k on cctv upgrade, closure of lower corner of wheatfield stand (not before time imo).

King Cosell
11-04-2019, 03:13 PM
Section N closed for the rest of the season. A wise move.

CallumLaidlaw
11-04-2019, 03:14 PM
Fair play to both Edinburgh clubs for taking REAL action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hibs Fraggle
11-04-2019, 03:15 PM
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-statement

"It beggars belief!" :greengrin

JimBHibees
11-04-2019, 03:15 PM
Section N closed for the rest of the season. A wise move.

Not section n, section g of wheatfield.

Gatecrasher
11-04-2019, 03:15 PM
The day I can't go to the football because of someone else's behaviour is the day I stop going. What about those who have season tickets and can't attend games, will they be refunded?

sixtwo
11-04-2019, 03:15 PM
Not sure if the statement refers to it or not, but they have closed a section for the last two games of the season.

She does drone on a bit!

04Sauzee
11-04-2019, 03:15 PM
Beggars belief 😂

JimBHibees
11-04-2019, 03:16 PM
The day I can't go to the football because of someone else's behaviour is the day I stop going. What about those who have season tickets and can't attend games, will they be refunded?

Why should they be they are being offered alternate seats until end of the season.

theonlywayisup
11-04-2019, 03:16 PM
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-statement

For those not willing to click on their website!!

Chairman's Statement on tackling Unacceptable Conduct at Tynecastle Park


As we all know, barely a week goes by at the moment without the headlines on the sports pages screaming out about the latest incidents at football matches…and, of course, they are rarely talking about the football performance! The media has no shortage of material with which to paint a pretty bleak picture of what to expect if you attend a football stadium to “enjoy” a hotly contested fixture.


By saying this, I am not criticising the media. They are simply doing their jobs. I am, of course, criticising the supporters who carry out the actions, which provide the headlines…actions such as singing sectarian songs…thereby inciting trouble; abusing players…whether verbally or physically; setting off pyrotechnics, endangering lives in the process; or causing stadium damage, etc, etc. Stadium rules have for years listed many forms of unacceptable behaviour which are stated to be “prohibited”…and yet this behaviour goes on and is seemingly on the increase. So simply listing what is unacceptable is not enough. We have to work together to stamp out these unacceptable behaviours. The government, the police, the football authorities, the clubs, the supporters…we all have a part to play.


Since getting involved in football, I have been hugely impressed by the effort made by clubs to try to ensure unacceptable behaviour is, ideally, prevented from happening, or at worst, dealt with…albeit often retrospectively. However, we have to do more!


At Tynecastle, we have worked hard over the last few seasons to strengthen our security processes and practices, and we continue to do so. Nonetheless, during the course of last Saturday’s Derby against Hibernian, no less than 7 pyrotechnics were discharged / thrown onto the pitch….4 from the Hearts area and 3 from the Hibs stand. In addition, there were instances of coins being thrown, cups, some containing hot drinks, being thrown and even… a coconut being thrown onto the pitch. Every single instance could have resulted in injury to an individual and in the case of the pyrotechnics, this did result in damage to the pitch…a pitch which, with the financial support of our fans, we have recently put down at a cost of £1 million! Why would our own fans want to damage this? It beggars belief!


To add to this, we have seen an appalling example of racist abuse, by a Hearts “supporter” to a Hibs player, circulated on social media. I am pleased to report that an individual has now been charged by Police Scotland in relation to this incident. Yes, I have also received reports of Hearts players being racially abused by Hibs “supporters!”; just because it happens both ways, in no way, condones it.


I have also received reports of sectarian comments being made by Hearts supporters. On the day, thanks to CCTV footage, and indeed thanks to supporters reporting incidents of unacceptable behaviour, 4 Hearts supporters were ejected and 3 were arrested. Other matters are still being followed up with Police Scotland.


I have said before that we will continue to take action to drive this behaviour out of Tynecastle Park… and I know that I have the support of all fair-minded Hearts supporters in our efforts to eradicate this behaviour. Since a number of the incidents mentioned above emanated from lower section G of the Wheatfield Stand, I have given instructions to close this Section with immediate effect. Season ticket holders within this Section will be offered seats elsewhere in the Stadium for the remaining 2 games of the season. I apologise to any “innocents” who are caught up in this.


I want to stress that this is not something we do lightly. This will impact close to 200 season ticket holders and as such, will cost the club financially. We have already lost income by closing corner sections of the Roseburn Stand in recent games. That we are having to reduce available capacity at games…when we have worked so hard to increase our capacity through building our new stand… is nothing short of ludicrous. As ludicrous as having spent £1 million on a state-of-the-art pitch, which some of our own fans are willing to risk destroying. To counter this appalling behaviour, I have already committed to spending another £100,000 in upgrading our CCTV system. This will be implemented during the close season. There are so many other things we could be doing with that money!


Our supporters have been magnificent in their financial backing of the Club…so we cannot sit back and allow a small group of mindless individuals undermine our achievements. Thanks to this kind of behaviour, the costs associated with providing a safe, secure and family friendly environment for supporters to enjoy the game they love, are escalating. Please work with us to stamp this out! I would encourage all supporters to text us confidentially to report incidents of unacceptable behaviour on the Fan Reporting Service number, which can be found on the club website. Help us to protect the reputation we have fought so hard to re-build.

Dalianwanda
11-04-2019, 03:16 PM
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-statement

Sure we could pick holes in it but cant see much wrong with the message..

Mikey
11-04-2019, 03:17 PM
I wonder if any of their fans will throw a strop and cancel their DD's.

Gatecrasher
11-04-2019, 03:17 PM
Why should they be they are being offered alternate seats until end of the season.

What's the point in closing the section then if the same people can attend the game anyway?

ancient hibee
11-04-2019, 03:17 PM
Excellent statement and :top marks for the action being taken.

The Green Goblin
11-04-2019, 03:18 PM
Three comments on that statement:

1. Fair play to her for tackling what has happened and mentioning the worst of it (Marv etc.) objectively.

2. She included the phrase “it beggars belief”. :greengrin

3. I take issue with the idea that they have rebuilt their reputation.

JimBHibees
11-04-2019, 03:19 PM
Sure we could pick holes in it but cant see much wrong with the message..

Good message liked the prominent mention of sectarian abuse.

SteveHFC
11-04-2019, 03:19 PM
Bit over the top reaction by Budge i would say.

JimBHibees
11-04-2019, 03:20 PM
What's the point in closing the section then if the same people can attend the game anyway?

More the section's proximity to away fans and it having more people than seats with sole intention of goading the opposition fans.

theonlywayisup
11-04-2019, 03:21 PM
Actually, that's an excellent statement. It's about time that these morons (irrespective of which team they support) would just GTF.


For those not willing to click on their website!!

Chairman's Statement on tackling Unacceptable Conduct at Tynecastle Park


As we all know, barely a week goes by at the moment without the headlines on the sports pages screaming out about the latest incidents at football matches…and, of course, they are rarely talking about the football performance! The media has no shortage of material with which to paint a pretty bleak picture of what to expect if you attend a football stadium to “enjoy” a hotly contested fixture.


By saying this, I am not criticising the media. They are simply doing their jobs. I am, of course, criticising the supporters who carry out the actions, which provide the headlines…actions such as singing sectarian songs…thereby inciting trouble; abusing players…whether verbally or physically; setting off pyrotechnics, endangering lives in the process; or causing stadium damage, etc, etc. Stadium rules have for years listed many forms of unacceptable behaviour which are stated to be “prohibited”…and yet this behaviour goes on and is seemingly on the increase. So simply listing what is unacceptable is not enough. We have to work together to stamp out these unacceptable behaviours. The government, the police, the football authorities, the clubs, the supporters…we all have a part to play.


Since getting involved in football, I have been hugely impressed by the effort made by clubs to try to ensure unacceptable behaviour is, ideally, prevented from happening, or at worst, dealt with…albeit often retrospectively. However, we have to do more!


At Tynecastle, we have worked hard over the last few seasons to strengthen our security processes and practices, and we continue to do so. Nonetheless, during the course of last Saturday’s Derby against Hibernian, no less than 7 pyrotechnics were discharged / thrown onto the pitch….4 from the Hearts area and 3 from the Hibs stand. In addition, there were instances of coins being thrown, cups, some containing hot drinks, being thrown and even… a coconut being thrown onto the pitch. Every single instance could have resulted in injury to an individual and in the case of the pyrotechnics, this did result in damage to the pitch…a pitch which, with the financial support of our fans, we have recently put down at a cost of £1 million! Why would our own fans want to damage this? It beggars belief!


To add to this, we have seen an appalling example of racist abuse, by a Hearts “supporter” to a Hibs player, circulated on social media. I am pleased to report that an individual has now been charged by Police Scotland in relation to this incident. Yes, I have also received reports of Hearts players being racially abused by Hibs “supporters!”; just because it happens both ways, in no way, condones it.


I have also received reports of sectarian comments being made by Hearts supporters. On the day, thanks to CCTV footage, and indeed thanks to supporters reporting incidents of unacceptable behaviour, 4 Hearts supporters were ejected and 3 were arrested. Other matters are still being followed up with Police Scotland.


I have said before that we will continue to take action to drive this behaviour out of Tynecastle Park… and I know that I have the support of all fair-minded Hearts supporters in our efforts to eradicate this behaviour. Since a number of the incidents mentioned above emanated from lower section G of the Wheatfield Stand, I have given instructions to close this Section with immediate effect. Season ticket holders within this Section will be offered seats elsewhere in the Stadium for the remaining 2 games of the season. I apologise to any “innocents” who are caught up in this.


I want to stress that this is not something we do lightly. This will impact close to 200 season ticket holders and as such, will cost the club financially. We have already lost income by closing corner sections of the Roseburn Stand in recent games. That we are having to reduce available capacity at games…when we have worked so hard to increase our capacity through building our new stand… is nothing short of ludicrous. As ludicrous as having spent £1 million on a state-of-the-art pitch, which some of our own fans are willing to risk destroying. To counter this appalling behaviour, I have already committed to spending another £100,000 in upgrading our CCTV system. This will be implemented during the close season. There are so many other things we could be doing with that money!


Our supporters have been magnificent in their financial backing of the Club…so we cannot sit back and allow a small group of mindless individuals undermine our achievements. Thanks to this kind of behaviour, the costs associated with providing a safe, secure and family friendly environment for supporters to enjoy the game they love, are escalating. Please work with us to stamp this out! I would encourage all supporters to text us confidentially to report incidents of unacceptable behaviour on the Fan Reporting Service number, which can be found on the club website. Help us to protect the reputation we have fought so hard to re-build.

Gatecrasher
11-04-2019, 03:22 PM
More the section's proximity to away fans and it having more people than seats with sole intention of goading the opposition fans.

So it's nothing but posturing then,inconvenience some folk for a few weeks to make out like your doing something.

JimBHibees
11-04-2019, 03:23 PM
So it's nothing but posturing then,inconvenience some folk for a few weeks to make out like your doing something.

Seems like action rather than posturing no doubt with intention of closing again in the future if no improvement.

JeMeSouviens
11-04-2019, 03:24 PM
Three comments on that statement:

1. Fair play to her for tackling what has happened and mentioning the worst of it (Marv etc.) objectively.

2. She included the phrase “it beggars belief”. :greengrin

3. I take issue with the idea that they have rebuilt their reputation.

True, but it's extremely rare for them to acknowledge their reputation needed rebuilt. The logic of that requires acknowledgement their last cup win was, to put it mildly, tainted.

That aside though, good to see them taking action.

Tarrahib
11-04-2019, 03:25 PM
Bit over the top reaction by Budge i would say.
I would hope that Leanne would take the same stance.

Stuart93
11-04-2019, 03:27 PM
How long is it until the rangers and Celtic take all this action? Their fans are a lot worse behaved than either ours or hearts.

Seems like the media focussing all their attention on our fan behaviour hasn’t went unnoticed by budge or Dempster. Absolute silence from the west coast clubs. Where was the outcry when a linesman had his head split from a rangers fan throwing a coin? Or flares being set off by the green brigade at CP last season?

CallumLaidlaw
11-04-2019, 03:28 PM
So it's nothing but posturing then,inconvenience some folk for a few weeks to make out like your doing something.

Splitting up the hate mob will give them less impact. And also the club are losing the income of 200 seats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kaff
11-04-2019, 03:28 PM
Good message liked the prominent mention of sectarian abuse.
Agree with you on that Jim

I wonder if this is a first move from the Capital clubs to force the authorities to get a grip of the Old Firm?
Both looking inwards at general yobbish behaviour, racist incidents and Hearts taking action against their sectarian element.
If we're seen to take firm steps to control these elements in our support then the accusations of whataboutery are unfounded and we can rightly say to SFA/SPFL/Scottish government that both those clubs should be taken to task when they sing their outlawed songs and trash stadiums.

Hopefully this could be a new dawn and this is a first step towards it.

CLASS OF 72 -73
11-04-2019, 03:30 PM
Sure we could pick holes in it but cant see much wrong with the message..

Only that its on a green site in maroon ink!

Del Boy
11-04-2019, 03:32 PM
Good statement from Hearts. One you’d expect from every other club in the country in similar circumstances, except the obvious two.

Hibbyradge
11-04-2019, 03:32 PM
"Since a number of the incidents mentioned above emanated from lower section G of the Wheatfield Stand, I have given instructions to close this Section with immediate effect. Season ticket holders within this Section will be offered seats elsewhere in the Stadium for the remaining 2 games of the season."

There are more than 2 games left, no? :confused:

JeMeSouviens
11-04-2019, 03:32 PM
Splitting up the hate mob will give them less impact. And also the club are losing the income of 200 seats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree your first point but I can't see Tiny being very full for their last 2 home games.

Stuart93
11-04-2019, 03:33 PM
"Since a number of the incidents mentioned above emanated from lower section G of the Wheatfield Stand, I have given instructions to close this Section with immediate effect. Season ticket holders within this Section will be offered seats elsewhere in the Stadium for the remaining 2 games of the season."

There are more than 2 games left, no? :confused:

2 games left at tynie

ElginHibbie
11-04-2019, 03:33 PM
"Since a number of the incidents mentioned above emanated from lower section G of the Wheatfield Stand, I have given instructions to close this Section with immediate effect. Season ticket holders within this Section will be offered seats elsewhere in the Stadium for the remaining 2 games of the season."

There are more than 2 games left, no? :confused:

Nope, they have Killie and Rangers at home left and 3 away matches

CallumLaidlaw
11-04-2019, 03:34 PM
"Since a number of the incidents mentioned above emanated from lower section G of the Wheatfield Stand, I have given instructions to close this Section with immediate effect. Season ticket holders within this Section will be offered seats elsewhere in the Stadium for the remaining 2 games of the season."

There are more than 2 games left, no? :confused:

Not at Tiny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cmcd
11-04-2019, 03:38 PM
Bit over the top reaction by Budge i would say.

Explain please

One Day Soon
11-04-2019, 03:40 PM
It may be a little over verbose but, fair play to her, she's called out what needs to be called out. I'm quite impressed in fact, specifically on naming the sectarian and racist stuff.

Radium
11-04-2019, 03:41 PM
Good intentions that will hopefully have an impact.

Hope that the Hibs fans who were racially abusing Hearts players are caught.

This is hopefully a wake up call to our board: call out all fans of all clubs for their behaviour because other clubs will rightly call out ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

we are hibs
11-04-2019, 03:41 PM
Don't agree with closing sections of stadiums. That's not going to solve anything. It's the individuals who are doing these things that need punished - not innocent supporters who just so happen to sit in a certain part of a ground.


But seeing as she has done so I'm surprised it's the section at the Wheatfield being shut when section N directly over from it is traditionally the one which most trouble eminates from no?

Tarrahib
11-04-2019, 03:41 PM
Agree your first point but I can't see Tiny being very full for their last 2 home games.
IT has got nothing to do with the size of the crowd.It is all about the statement.Enough is enough.Lets enjoy the football not the hate around it.

Golden Bear
11-04-2019, 03:41 PM
Explain please

I'd say its a wind up based on some of the drama queens reaction to the CCTV and sniffer dogs thread.

Seveno
11-04-2019, 03:42 PM
The mindless vandalism directed at the English language should be reported.

Do they not have a PR dept at Tinycastle to add even a touch of professionalism to the Queen’s ramble?

SteveHFC
11-04-2019, 03:42 PM
Explain please

Closing the section because of a number of a idiots. Shame the decent fans in that section will have to move seats because of a number of idiots.

Lendo
11-04-2019, 03:43 PM
Were they not boycotting the remaining games anyway?

neil7908
11-04-2019, 03:46 PM
Decent statement and actions.

Hibs have been equally vocal and taken steps to address issues with our support.

Now over to the OF.

ElginHibbie
11-04-2019, 03:46 PM
While it is good to see action taken, wonder if this would have been done if they realistically had something to play for and highly doubt it would have happen if the derby was there

Shame on the decent fans in that section, but as there seems to a push to have fans report troublemakers themselves guess it is basically statement saying if you don't you will be effected for other's stupidity

cmcd
11-04-2019, 03:47 PM
Closing the section because of a number of a idiots. Shame the decent fans in that section will have to move seats because of a number of idiots.

I know what you're saying but what else could she do .I can see the same happening at Easter Road if the idiots keep chucking pyrotechnics and bottles etc

SteveHFC
11-04-2019, 03:49 PM
I know what you're saying but what else could she do .I can see the same happening at Easter Road if the idiots keep chucking pyrotechnics and bottles etc

Maybe have a look at the idiots who sit in that section and give them verbal warnings or issue banning orders.

Diclonius
11-04-2019, 03:51 PM
Us and Hearts are showing the OF how it's done in terms of weeding out the idiots at football.

If the exact same things happened at the OF derby the following statements would be released.

Celtic: "Aye but Rangers are worse"
Rangers: "Aye but Celtic are worse"

Tarrahib
11-04-2019, 03:55 PM
Maybe have a look at the idiots who sit in that section and give them verbal warnings or issue banning orders.
How many more warnings do they need.Admire her pragmatism.

nonshinyfinish
11-04-2019, 03:57 PM
I would hope that Leanne would take the same stance.

Albeit with better punctuation.

WhileTheChief..
11-04-2019, 04:00 PM
Both spending £100k on new cctv?

Surprised they’re not spending a tad more to make sure it’s the biggest and best in the city.

GloryGlory
11-04-2019, 04:01 PM
Not sure if the statement refers to it or not, but they have closed a section for the last two games of the season.

She does drone on a bit!

That's OK. With the world's greatest megastand the crowds will still flock...

Tarrahib
11-04-2019, 04:03 PM
Albeit with better punctuation.
It's all about the point.Not the Punctuation.Scottish education is the best in the world but you have to use it.

Iggy Pope
11-04-2019, 04:03 PM
Both spending £100k on new cctv?

Surprised they’re not spending a tad more to make sure it’s the biggest and best in the city.

Joint statement due, cosy chat over coffee with the lucky contractor. Castle somewhere in the background behind the glass and all the buildings and flats and tenements and that.

Paisley Hibby
11-04-2019, 04:10 PM
Credit where it's due - well done to her. What's cringeworthy is the sneering "high brow" comments on her writing style. Get a life guys.

Kojock
11-04-2019, 04:11 PM
Maybe Im missing something but what is the point of closing section G as its only agaist Hibs that away fans are next to them as every other game the section next to them in the Roseburn is allocated to Hear7s fans.

Hibernia&Alba
11-04-2019, 04:16 PM
At least she's trying to deal with the radges amongst them, so fair play to her.

Billy Whizz
11-04-2019, 04:17 PM
Maybe Im missing something but what is the point of closing section G as its only agaist Hibs that away fans are next to them as every other game the section next to them in the Roseburn is allocated to Hear7s fans.

Is section G not the area nearest Hibs fans in the Hearts main stand?

JeMeSouviens
11-04-2019, 04:17 PM
Is section G not the area nearest Hibs fans in the Hearts main stand?

No, that's Section N(azi).

Moulin Yarns
11-04-2019, 04:19 PM
Joint statement due, cosy chat over coffee with the lucky contractor. Castle somewhere in the background behind the glass and all the buildings and flats and tenements and that.

Maybe the 100 grand is being shared, you have it one week we have it the next week.

Malthibby
11-04-2019, 04:20 PM
Congratulations to the woman.
For those questioning the closure, perhaps if fans knew some utter fool's behaviour was going to affect them like that, they
might be a bit more inclined to shop them instead of putting up the blinkers and letting the behaviour carry on. Simple self interest.

Lago
11-04-2019, 04:20 PM
:aok:
Good statement from Hearts. One you’d expect from every other club in the country in similar circumstances, except the obvious two.

Kojock
11-04-2019, 04:21 PM
Is section G not the area nearest Hibs fans in the Hearts main stand?

As said it's the opposite stand the Wheatfield. The lower corner of the Roseburn was was closed off last Saturday.

Billy Whizz
11-04-2019, 04:23 PM
As said it's the opposite stand the Wheatfield. The lower corner of the Roseburn was was closed off last Saturday.

Ok ta, thought the fans who abused Bartley were in the lower tier of the main stand

Kojock
11-04-2019, 04:23 PM
Ok ta, thought the fans who abused Bartley were in the lower tier of the main stand

They were lol

Tarrahib
11-04-2019, 04:23 PM
No, that's Section N(azi).
I wouldn't know I've never been lucky enough to get a ticket for a Derby at Tynecastle.

nonshinyfinish
11-04-2019, 04:24 PM
It's all about the point.Not the Punctuation.Scottish education is the best in the world but you have to use it.

I was agreeing with you. I combined with a petty dig at Hearts, which I wouldn't expect to be particularly controversial.

Pilrig_Sauzee
11-04-2019, 04:30 PM
Well done Edinburgh.

cabbageandribs1875
11-04-2019, 04:32 PM
the wheatfield is a start, what about the bottom corner in the Tommy Robinson stand :rolleyes:

wearethehibs
11-04-2019, 04:36 PM
Embarrassing from both Edinburgh clubs. I few minor incidents in the last month or so. You'd think we had hooligans having running battles on the pitch every game.

Hibbyradge
11-04-2019, 04:47 PM
Embarrassing from both Edinburgh clubs. I few minor incidents in the last month or so. You'd think we had hooligans having running battles on the pitch every game.

Who are you embarrassed in front of? They must have some pretty weird values. Perverse even

Fortunately, the people who run the clubs are embarrassed about sectarian abuse, racist abuse, people running onto the pitch, and pyrotechnics and other objects being thrown.

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 04:52 PM
Cant wait until the next Derby . Everyone sitting on ther ******g hands scared tae fart

nonshinyfinish
11-04-2019, 04:54 PM
Cant wait until the next Derby . Everyone sitting on ther ******g hands scared tae fart

Is it that hard to imagine a middle ground between sitting on your hands and racist abuse?

lyonhibs
11-04-2019, 04:56 PM
Cant wait until the next Derby . Everyone sitting on ther ******g hands scared tae fart

Will they? Odd, it seems to be that as long as you're not chucking pyros or sectarian/racist abuse about the joint willy nilly, and stay in the stand, that you can make us much noise as you would at any other derby.

As usual, there are shades of grey here.

HTD1875
11-04-2019, 04:57 PM
200 people moved out of their seats due to a couple of smoke bombs haha, I certainly wouldn’t be happy if I had stood there without bother for years.

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 05:00 PM
Is it that hard to imagine a middle ground between sitting on your hands and racist abuse?

Did I once refer to racism in any way shape or form there. I was simply referring to the change in CCTV and methods about to be induced by both clubs. Get a a grip ya radge

Famous Fiver
11-04-2019, 05:01 PM
Bit of a mixed reaction over on Kickback.

Overreaction say some.

Opinions, eh!

nonshinyfinish
11-04-2019, 05:04 PM
Did I once refer to racism in any way shape or form there. I was simply referring to the change in CCTV and methods about to be induced by both clubs. Get a a grip ya radge

The context of those changes being racist abuse, among other things.

Did you read the statement or just steam in regardless?

Tarrahib
11-04-2019, 05:09 PM
I hope Hibs publish the hotline number so if I see any bam doing anything that cause harm to me or anybody around me or to Hibs I can report them quickly.

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 05:13 PM
The context of those changes being racist abuse, among other things.

Did you read the statement or just steam in regardless?

The statement is " Tackling Unacceptable behaviour" Where in f knows name did you manage to come up with racism?? Both clubs have made statements and my comment was simply a joke.
Are you Leanne Dempster by the way? Better take my pyro fingers away from my keyboard:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::r olleyes::rolleyes:

Since452
11-04-2019, 05:14 PM
Bit of a mixed reaction over on Kickback.

Overreaction say some.

Opinions, eh!

Massive overreaction tbh

nonshinyfinish
11-04-2019, 05:16 PM
The statement is " Tackling Unacceptable behaviour" Where in f knows name did you manage to come up with racism?? Both clubs have made statements and my comment was simply a joke.
Are you Leanne Dempster by the way? Better take my pyro fingers away from my keyboard:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::r olleyes::rolleyes:

Probably this bit about racist abuse:


To add to this, we have seen an appalling example of racist abuse, by a Hearts “supporter” to a Hibs player, circulated on social media. I am pleased to report that an individual has now been charged by Police Scotland in relation to this incident. Yes, I have also received reports of Hearts players being racially abused by Hibs “supporters!”; just because it happens both ways, in no way, condones it.

Hibbyradge
11-04-2019, 05:16 PM
The statement is " Tackling Unacceptable behaviour" Where in f knows name did you manage to come up with racism?? Both clubs have made statements and my comment was simply a joke.
Are you Leanne Dempster by the way? Better take my pyro fingers away from my keyboard:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::r olleyes::rolleyes:

You obviously haven't read the statement.

It specifically mentioned racism and sectarianism.

Maybe you should have used your "pyro fingers" to click the link and read it.

Tarrahib
11-04-2019, 05:18 PM
The statement is " Tackling Unacceptable behaviour" Where in f knows name did you manage to come up with racism?? Both clubs have made statements and my comment was simply a joke.
Are you Leanne Dempster by the way? Better take my pyro fingers away from my keyboard:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::r olleyes::rolleyes:
Aye they might get burnt!

Pretty Boy
11-04-2019, 05:18 PM
I'm glad Hibs and Hearts are taking a tough stance.

Nothing gets done about Sectarianism and racism in Scottish football because of the culture of 'whataboutery'. If we get our own houses in order then we, as a club and fanbase, are in a position to start asking the uncomfortable questions.

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 05:20 PM
You obviously haven't read the statement.

It specifically mentioned racism and sectarianism.

Maybe you should have used your "pyro fingers" to click the link and read it.

I hate racists and never will condone it. I was simply referring to decent fans being scrutinised as a result of the minority who spoil things. I maybe should have thought before i typed

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 05:21 PM
Aye they might get burnt!

Boom tish

nonshinyfinish
11-04-2019, 05:24 PM
I hate racists and never will condone it. I was simply referring to decent fans being scrutinised as a result of the minority who spoil things. I maybe should have thought before i typed

Fair enough.

CallumLaidlaw
11-04-2019, 05:26 PM
Cant wait until the next Derby . Everyone sitting on ther ******g hands scared tae fart

Funnily enough, the away end was passionate, raucous and chaos, but very few were misbehaving. It’s possible to have a tribal atmosphere without resorting to racism, bigotry, violence or vandalism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hfc rd
11-04-2019, 05:27 PM
At least she hasn’t swept it under the carpet pretending like nothing has happened like the Ugly Sisters tend to do. Taken action to eradicate it.

pacoluna
11-04-2019, 05:27 PM
Statements from leaan Dempster & Anne budge more like.

Best of friends.

#respect the rivalry ������������

Pretty Boy
11-04-2019, 05:29 PM
Funnily enough, the away end was passionate, raucous and chaos, but very few were misbehaving. It’s possible to have a tribal atmosphere without resorting to racism, bigotry, violence or vandalism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spot on.

I was well up for the game, shouted a lot, sang a lot, went mental when we scored but I was able to resist being racist, sectarian or destroying stuff.

There's a middle ground.

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 05:30 PM
Funnily enough, the away end was passionate, raucous and chaos, but very few were misbehaving. It’s possible to have a tribal atmosphere without resorting to racism, bigotry, violence or vandalism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Worst thing is we have been subjected to this for years with the old firm. Never a statement until now:confused:

Kaff
11-04-2019, 05:32 PM
Statements from leaan Dempster & Anne budge more like.

Best of friends.

#respect the rivalry ������������

It possibly won't seem like it just now but if these two women having taken the first strides to confronting sectarianism in Scottish football in this era then well done to them.
Both clubs tackling it together gives far more strength to it and I do respect what they're doing.

I do understand that a lot of what has been covered is nothing to do with racism and sectarianism but my feeling is that these are the first plays in a longer game

Vini1875
11-04-2019, 05:33 PM
Funnily enough, the away end was passionate, raucous and chaos, but very few were misbehaving. It’s possible to have a tribal atmosphere without resorting to racism, bigotry, violence or vandalism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not according to Budge she said our fans were also at it, abusing a hearts player. No evidence of it though.

Barney McGrew
11-04-2019, 05:33 PM
I think it’s quite a shrewd move to close that section by Budgie.....neither game will sell out, they’ll move the season ticket holders to other parts of the ground, not lose money but get a big pat on the back for being seen to take action.

pacoluna
11-04-2019, 05:39 PM
Worst thing is we have been subjected to this for years with the old firm. Never a statement until now:confused:

And if both were in charge of the oldfirm no chance would they release these kind of statements.

Trying to use Hibs and Hearts as an example, quick to condemn our own but absolutely pathetic when it comes to condemning others.

Jones28
11-04-2019, 05:40 PM
Not according to Budge she said our fans were also at it, abusing a hearts player. No evidence of it though.

She's referring to the incident at Easter Road no? Where a guy was caught in the background of a shot from the TV cameras.

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 05:41 PM
And if both were in charge of the oldfirm no chance would they release these kind of statements.

Trying to use Hibs and Hearts as an example, quick to condemn our own but absolutely pathetic when it comes to condemning others.

Very true. Swept under the carpet as per....

adhibs
11-04-2019, 05:42 PM
First I've heard about racist abuse coming from the Hibs end, has it been highlighted elsewhere?

If she's got no proof, her next statement should be an apology... and Dempster should be demanding so!

The 90+2
11-04-2019, 05:44 PM
Sounds like a nursery nurse giving children a row.

Beggars Belief 😂😂 get the cash cow Budgie.

Jones28
11-04-2019, 05:48 PM
Anyone else think it reads like a ranty Facebook post? Totally agree with the content but it looks and reads poorly.

green day
11-04-2019, 05:49 PM
First I've heard about racist abuse coming from the Hibs end, has it been highlighted elsewhere?

If she's got no proof, her next statement should be an apology... and Dempster should be demanding so!

Shes talking about the guy caught on TV calling Dikamona a black ******* in the last derby at ER.

CallumLaidlaw
11-04-2019, 05:50 PM
First I've heard about racist abuse coming from the Hibs end, has it been highlighted elsewhere?

If she's got no proof, her next statement should be an apology... and Dempster should be demanding so!

She’s worded that quite carefully and indicates she means hearts fans have contacted her regarding it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pacoluna
11-04-2019, 05:50 PM
Very true. Swept under the carpet as per....

I await the " get our own house in order first" comments .

Well now it is, so make sure our 110k CCTV cameras don't somehow conveniently miss the sectarian bigotry when the brothers visit! It works both ways.

No chance will we dare to question that lot though.

adhibs
11-04-2019, 05:52 PM
Shes talking about the guy caught on TV calling Dikamona a black ******* in the last derby at ER.

It doesn't read that way. He's was caught and punished quite rightly. The 'received reports' suggests something else.

green day
11-04-2019, 05:56 PM
It doesn't read that way. He's was caught and punished quite rightly. The 'received reports' suggests something else.

I know what you mean, but I think she genuinely finds it difficult to express herself in "words" - its probably more difficult when she has no obvious handle on the English language or use of grammar :greengrin



n.b I am absolutely sure she is referring to the one at ER

Kojock
11-04-2019, 05:57 PM
It doesn't read that way. He's was caught and punished quite rightly. The 'received reports' suggests something else.

Agree the way it reads that she received reports from the last game from Hear7s fans.

I have also received reports of Hearts players being racially abused by Hibs “supporters!”; just because it happens both ways, in no way, condones it.

wookie70
11-04-2019, 05:57 PM
Nothing wrong with that statement.

green day
11-04-2019, 05:59 PM
Agree the way it reads that she received reports from the last game from Hear7s fans.

I have also received reports of Hearts players being racially abused by Hibs “supporters!”; just because it happens both ways, in no way, condones it.

As I said - its like she wrote it with a crayon on the office wall then published it - If there was a report of racist abuse we would have heard about it, either in the MSM or in some whataboutery on twitter - there is no report.

adhibs
11-04-2019, 06:10 PM
She’s worded that quite carefully and indicates she means hearts fans have contacted her regarding it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely, shes fully aware of what she's doing. To include something unproven like that in an official statement is completely unprofessional. She needs held to acount if her tarring of the club has no basis.

That line has given the press the opportunity to jump on that claim too.

matty_f
11-04-2019, 06:15 PM
I'm glad Hibs and Hearts are taking a tough stance.

Nothing gets done about Sectarianism and racism in Scottish football because of the culture of 'whataboutery'. If we get our own houses in order then we, as a club and fanbase, are in a position to start asking the uncomfortable questions.

Exactly.

nellio
11-04-2019, 06:19 PM
I see we are also bringing in an anonymous bad behaviour line.

Have seen this in action at Wembley and was very effective.

proud_and_green
11-04-2019, 06:25 PM
How many more warnings do they need.Admire her pragmatism.

Yep, the line has to ne drawn somewhere and it is far easier drawing that line before a leak becomes a flood.

I think it is an excellent statement and not a hint of any whataboutery!

I agree that this is likely preparing the ground for calling out the infirm.

dp00
11-04-2019, 06:28 PM
I think hibs and hearts should actually be commended for the action they are taking .... now if only Celtic and Rangers would follow suit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not In The Know
11-04-2019, 06:31 PM
Anyone want to start a CCTV installation company with me? 😂

matty_f
11-04-2019, 06:37 PM
I think hibs and hearts should actually be commended for the action they are taking .... now if only Celtic and Rangers would follow suit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here. I think it's absurd that folk are giving the club's flak for it.

I don't want Hibs to wait until a small problem turns into a big problem before we do something about it.

silverhibee
11-04-2019, 06:38 PM
the wheatfield is a start, what about the bottom corner in the Tommy Robinson stand :rolleyes:

I thought it was that corner that had been closed :confused::greengrin

Malthibby
11-04-2019, 06:44 PM
Yep, the line has to ne drawn somewhere and it is far easier drawing that line before a leak becomes a flood.

I think it is an excellent statement and not a hint of any whataboutery!

I agree that this is likely preparing the ground for calling out the infirm.


Totally in favour of Hibs getting their own house in order, & I also hope that once we have this stuff in place we can start making life very uncomfortable for the Bigot Bros.
High definition, slow-mo panning of 4000 Rangers fans giving it laldy about being knee deep, pausing occasionally to linger on hate-filled, spittle-flecked abominations their
own mothers must shudder to look at. Gawd I feel dirty.
GG

One Day Soon
11-04-2019, 06:55 PM
It's all about the point.Not the Punctuation.Scottish education is the best in the world but you have to use it.

Surely there should be spaces after two of your full stops there?

pacoluna
11-04-2019, 06:55 PM
[/U]
Totally in favour of Hibs getting their own house in order, & I also hope that once we have this stuff in place we can start making life very uncomfortable for the Bigot Bros.
High definition, slow-mo panning of 4000 Rangers fans giving it laldy about being knee deep, pausing occasionally to linger on hate-filled, spittle-flecked abominations their
own mothers must shudder to look at. Gawd I feel dirty.
GG

Wishful thinking.

Mibbes Aye
11-04-2019, 07:06 PM
What’s with all the exclamation marks, inverted commas and ellipses?

”And even...a coconut”

God, reading that made my eyes hurt.

Since452
11-04-2019, 07:08 PM
How many seats does the closed section have?

Eyrie
11-04-2019, 07:09 PM
Credit to Budge for doing something about the morons in the Hearts support.

With Dempster on the case for us, let's hope that this is something that can be nipped in the bud at both clubs.

Malthibby
11-04-2019, 07:11 PM
Wishful thinking.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm still waiting for the Revolution.

The Green Goblin
11-04-2019, 07:29 PM
Cant wait until the next Derby . Everyone sitting on ther ******g hands scared tae throw bottles and racially abuse players.

Fixed it for you.

Malthibby
11-04-2019, 07:42 PM
Fixed it for you.

:top marks

ionahibby
11-04-2019, 08:03 PM
Cant wait until the next Derby . Everyone sitting on ther ******g hands scared tae fart

The prawn sandwich brigade will be happy though. Sit and clap only no shouting or raucous behaviour allowed. Fair enough deal with the idiots but this closing sections thing is a bit ott and if I was Jambo in that section I would rightly pissed off. There is fine balance between dealing with criminal behaviour and soaking all the atmosphere out the game. I think it’s a bit heavy handed the approach from budge and Dempster.

tamig
11-04-2019, 08:12 PM
Surely there should be spaces after two of your full stops there?

The grammar and punctuation is a bit like their twice yearly transfer policy - scattergun. I’m surprised Budge is happy for that to go out publicly. Decent message in this one but still looks like it’s been written by a kid.

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 08:14 PM
The prawn sandwich brigade will be happy though. Sit and clap only no shouting or raucous behaviour allowed. Fair enough deal with the idiots but this closing sections thing is a bit ott and if I was Jambo in that section I would rightly pissed off. There is fine balance between dealing with criminal behaviour and soaking all the atmosphere out the game. I think it’s a bit heavy handed the approach from budge and Dempster.
My sentiments exactly but a select few on here appear to think I actively encourage such stupidity. A few bams should be dealt with appropriately rather than scrutinizing each and every fan

Hibbyradge
11-04-2019, 08:17 PM
The prawn sandwich brigade will be happy though. Sit and clap only no shouting or raucous behaviour allowed. Fair enough deal with the idiots but this closing sections thing is a bit ott and if I was Jambo in that section I would rightly pissed off. There is fine balance between dealing with criminal behaviour and soaking all the atmosphere out the game. I think it’s a bit heavy handed the approach from budge and Dempster.

Are you trying to set the record for the most straw men in a single post?

Hibbyradge
11-04-2019, 08:19 PM
A few bams should be dealt with appropriately rather than scrutinizing each and every fan

What should happen when that approach fails?

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 08:26 PM
What should happen when that approach fails?
When or if? I’m pretty sure the hefty sentence imposed to the young fan should get the ball rolling so to speak. The rise of social media is also a good way to shame these Neanderthals. It’s certainly a work in progress

green day
11-04-2019, 08:26 PM
My sentiments exactly but a select few on here appear to think I actively encourage such stupidity. A few bams should be dealt with appropriately rather than scrutinizing each and every fan

So, are we only scrutinising those that "look like wee radges"?

kdhibees1
11-04-2019, 08:29 PM
So, are we only scrutinising those that "look like wee radges"?
Nope see my last post. I’m merely trying to bring up slight examples. It’s a cancer of society that seems to be rearing it’s ugly head again.

Hibbyradge
11-04-2019, 08:30 PM
When or if? I’m pretty sure the hefty sentence imposed to the young fan should get the ball rolling so to speak. The rise of social media is also a good way to shame these Neanderthals. It’s certainly a work in progress

It already has failed.

surreyhibbie
11-04-2019, 08:36 PM
Credit to Budge for doing something about the morons in the Hearts support.

With Dempster on the case for us, let's hope that this is something that can be nipped in the bud at both clubs.

A bit rambling but the sentiments there.

Edinburgh clubs leading the way?

Can’t be bad.

The_Horde
11-04-2019, 08:48 PM
I was doing a delivery down by the piggery around 11am and Budge drove past me. She looked absolutely fuming.

BILLYHIBS
11-04-2019, 09:24 PM
Anyone else feel we are headed for a show down with the Ugly Sisters over this issue?

They are both in denial

It is not their fault it is everyone else’s fault

The world is against them

It is not that long ago the South Stand was up to its knees in Fenian blood and Palestinian flags and Irish Rebel songs

I am not talking about a minority as everyone on here is well aware it is the whole stand

As we approach 2020 if HIBS and Hearts make a stand hopefully we can help wipe out “Scotland’s Shame” once and for all

I realise that we both have to clean up our own act first but this has got to stop Celtic and Rangers have been carrying on like this since 1888 and 1872 respectively unabated

Hibernianinc
11-04-2019, 11:38 PM
Good by both clubs.

Canny understand 'fans' still trying to justify idiotic behaviour. AEK Athens was one of the most brilliant, mental atmospheres ever. Not a single d1ck with a flare needed.

Glory Lurker
11-04-2019, 11:55 PM
Good by both clubs.

Canny understand 'fans' still trying to justify idiotic behaviour. AEK Athens was one of the most brilliant, mental atmospheres ever. Not a single d1ck with a flare needed.

Was a bit on social media yesterday about Kevin Harper's winner on 11 April 1998. Complete mayhem when that went in. Scenes at full time. The usual hot atmosphere with singing through most of the game. Nonsense? Nil.

CMurdoch
12-04-2019, 12:02 AM
Female football club chief executives showing their male equivalents up for the gutless careerists that they are.
Both Mrs Hearts & Miss Hibs have grown tired of their respective teams attention seeking supporters and have decided to take them on.
I'm putting my money on them both to win the fight if the courts keep their interest up.

The new CCTV installed for next season will finally allow them to readily identify culprits after any incident and expunge them from both clubs stadiums.
All seater stadiums was a good start and CCTV which records everything that occurs within the problem areas will finish the job inside both stadiums.
Dafties will be still be able to throw things onto the pitch and make racist comments to players but will be subsequently identified, captured and banned.

Well done ladies. Let the battle commence.

If successful they may well set their sights on the sectarian singers of Scottish Football.

jgl07
12-04-2019, 08:09 AM
Section N closed for the rest of the season. A wise move.

Will that not make the Tynecastle capacity less that 20,000?

Green_one
12-04-2019, 09:03 AM
Will that not make the Tynecastle capacity less that 20,000?

Absolutely not. The capacity will remain well over 20000. You are mistaking the total of available seats for actual Tynecastle capacity. Please report immediately to the Georgie Re-education Unit where you will learn how to count again all the way up to 400,000. Mrs B will start with a long rambling description and a brisk tour of the majestic new stand. Please notice the views of the castle and the glass wall

NORTHERNHIBBY
12-04-2019, 09:20 AM
The prawn sandwich brigade will be happy though. Sit and clap only no shouting or raucous behaviour allowed. Fair enough deal with the idiots but this closing sections thing is a bit ott and if I was Jambo in that section I would rightly pissed off. There is fine balance between dealing with criminal behaviour and soaking all the atmosphere out the game. I think it’s a bit heavy handed the approach from budge and Dempster.


Who would you be most pissed off with? The club owner for taking the action , or the individuals that have made this an issue in the first place.

marinello59
12-04-2019, 09:44 AM
The prawn sandwich brigade will be happy though. Sit and clap only no shouting or raucous behaviour allowed. Fair enough deal with the idiots but this closing sections thing is a bit ott and if I was Jambo in that section I would rightly pissed off. There is fine balance between dealing with criminal behaviour and soaking all the atmosphere out the game. I think it’s a bit heavy handed the approach from budge and Dempster.

Where do these people sit at fitba that only allow sitting and clapping? :confused:
Some of the best singing at ER this season came from a group in hospitality. The prawn sandwich brigade are a myth, they don’t exist.

marinello59
12-04-2019, 09:53 AM
The section she has closed was mainly populated by kids on Saturday. Daft kids playing up as kids do. If that was the most threatening area of Tynecastle the it’s reputation as a tough ground to visit has been totally blown.

hibsbollah
12-04-2019, 09:54 AM
My sentiments exactly but a select few on here appear to think I actively encourage such stupidity. A few bams should be dealt with appropriately rather than scrutinizing each and every fan

In both occasions of Hearts/Jobs racial abusing players, the protagonist was your regular white, middle aged fan, not the hoody wearing junkie Ned of popular imagination.

Both times I've heard racist abuse at games, the perp was a regular looking, well dressed guy too. These people aren't easy to pre identify.

HFC93
12-04-2019, 09:56 AM
Good by both clubs.

Canny understand 'fans' still trying to justify idiotic behaviour. AEK Athens was one of the most brilliant, mental atmospheres ever. Not a single d1ck with a flare needed.

Spot on, it’s a total myth at the pyro/flares add an atmosphere to the game. It's pushed by the faux ‘ultras’. The craziest Hibs atmospheres I’ve experienced didn’t involve someone setting off a firework or a distress flare.

matty_f
12-04-2019, 10:04 AM
Where do these people sit at fitba that only allow sitting and clapping? :confused:
Some of the best singing at ER this season came from a group in hospitality. The prawn sandwich brigade are a myth, they don’t exist.

I would love to know what behaviour folk do at the football that they think will be stopped by this, individually.

I can't think of a single thing I do that I would expect to be told not to.

Onion
12-04-2019, 10:11 AM
So it's nothing but posturing then,inconvenience some folk for a few weeks to make out like your doing something.

A cheap PR exercise. The hurt and hate goes much deeper than a few folk sitting at n the corner.

And where are they going to re-seat them when the PBS is always a full house ? Or just maybe ... it’s not 😳

HibsGW
12-04-2019, 10:12 AM
The amount of replies on both Hibs and Hearts side to our statements condemning the recent poor behaviour of fans is absolutely embarrassing. Grown adults actively defending people racially abusing players, singing sectarian songs, throwing things on the pitch at players, which by the way could hit your own fans on the way. If this is what going to support Hibs or Hearts is to you, you should probably stop going to the football and go somewhere else where you can take your anger out in an appropriate manner. Maybe train boxing or MMA or something, although I suppose there’s consequences when you act like a roaster in these things so maybe that’d put people off too.

oldbutdim
12-04-2019, 10:20 AM
I would love to know what behaviour folk do at the football that they think will be stopped by this, individually.

I can't think of a single thing I do that I would expect to be told not to.


I read someone say they would be afraid to fart.

I'm not suggesting that you suffer from flatulence any more than the next guy.

But the next guy is forever letting off, and if it stops that then my viewing pleasure will be increased substantially.

NAE NOOKIE
12-04-2019, 10:57 AM
I've made no secret of the fact that I have a sneaky wee liking for smoke bombs :greengrin …. but unfortunately they have to go.

As other posters have pointed out you can create a brilliant atmosphere at a game without descending into stupidity and anti social behaviour.

Fair play to Budge for her actions here, clearly following the lead from Leeann Dempster. Its a shame that we have gotten to this stage where clubs are having to spend thousands on non football related equipment. But as others have said, this is a statement of intent from both Edinburgh clubs who are prepared to call out the racists and bigots in their own support publicly. I still maintain its a small problem and perhaps more evident at Tynecastle than it is at Easter Road …. but the idea has to be to nip it in the bud before it does become a major issue.

But lets be clear here …. If we are to go down this road then every time we play Sevco or Celtic both Hibs and Hearts must at the very least comment on the sectarian singing and abuse spewing out of the away stands … they cant be calling out their own supports and then turn a blind eye to the far far worse behaviour from away fans of the bigot brothers.

It will be interesting to see what happens next season, because in view of recent events I cant see fans of Hibs or Hearts taking kindly to our clubs railing against their own supports and then failing to take the next very obvious step, because if that were to happen it would not be unreasonable for accusations of hypocrisy and cowardice to be bandied about.

matty_f
12-04-2019, 11:00 AM
I read someone say they would be afraid to fart.

I'm not suggesting that you suffer from flatulence any more than the next guy.

But the next guy is forever letting off, and if it stops that then my viewing pleasure will be increased substantially.

:faf:

If I'm going to be held accountable for my farts, then I'll be cancelling my season ticket with immediate effect.

It's the sniffer dogs I feel sorry for, if true.

where'stheslope
12-04-2019, 11:01 AM
From what i've seen and heard about tynie, the section she has shut holds about 200 fans, although not all implicated in the bother, shutting this area means its harder for their fans to taunt and hurl abuse at the away fans!
I think it would maybe be advisable to close the adjacent section in the away fans end at the same time.
For years now it has become a battle ground of venom from both fans in this area.
Unfortunately this will not curb things being thrown as the culprits will be in another area of the ground and still be able to throw things!!!

hibsbollah
12-04-2019, 11:04 AM
I've made no secret of the fact that I have a sneaky wee liking for smoke bombs :greengrin …. but unfortunately they have to go.

As other posters have pointed out you can create a brilliant atmosphere at a game without descending into stupidity and anti social behaviour.

Fair play to Budge for her actions here, clearly following the lead from Leeann Dempster. Its a shame that we have gotten to this stage where clubs are having to spend thousands on non football related equipment. But as others have said, this is a statement of intent from both Edinburgh clubs who are prepared to call out the racists and bigots in their own support publicly. I still maintain its a small problem and perhaps more evident at Tynecastle than it is at Easter Road …. but the idea has to be to nip it in the bud before it does become a major issue.

But lets be clear here …. If we are to go down this road then every time we play Sevco or Celtic both Hibs and Hearts must at the very least comment on the sectarian singing and abuse spewing out of the away stands … they cant be calling out their own supports and then turn a blind eye to the far far worse behaviour from away fans of the bigot brothers. It will be interesting to see what happens next season, because in view of recent events I cant see fans of Hibs or Hearts taking kindly to our clubs railing against their own supports and then failing to take the next very obvious step.

Absolutely agree with all of this. The excellent steps taken by the Edinburgh clubs today have to be partnered with a zero tolerance approach to the Glasgow two; identifying every occasion of sectarianism by using film evidence and then reporting it as a hate crime, if necessary. Why not? There serms to be a new report of racial abuse at every major game down south at the moment (Koulibaly at Arsenal last night now), why do we not take the lead and report it ourselves, as a club, a f the journalists are too spineless to do it?

j'adore hibs
12-04-2019, 11:13 AM
this was discussed on talk sport this morning by brazil and mcoist. brazil admitted to saying silly things on the past which I can only assume were sectarian by nature . mcoist never said a word. they appeared positive about what hibs and hearts were doing but didn't really touch on the old firm issues at all.

my tuppence, I think its a good thing what the Edinburgh clubs are doing and who knows maybe it will lead to more scrutiny on the old firm. Im quite bemused by the comments on here re prawn sandwich brigade and end of atmosphere. It primarily suggests these are the people that want to shout offensive bile and throw stuff. This will not stop people jumping about an enjoying themselves, it will stop racism etc and people throwing things which may cause danger to others or damage property....bet nobody though about the cost of damage to pitch these flares cost.

JeMeSouviens
12-04-2019, 11:14 AM
I've made no secret of the fact that I have a sneaky wee liking for smoke bombs :greengrin …. but unfortunately they have to go.

As other posters have pointed out you can create a brilliant atmosphere at a game without descending into stupidity and anti social behaviour.

Fair play to Budge for her actions here, clearly following the lead from Leeann Dempster. Its a shame that we have gotten to this stage where clubs are having to spend thousands on non football related equipment. But as others have said, this is a statement of intent from both Edinburgh clubs who are prepared to call out the racists and bigots in their own support publicly. I still maintain its a small problem and perhaps more evident at Tynecastle than it is at Easter Road …. but the idea has to be to nip it in the bud before it does become a major issue.

But lets be clear here …. If we are to go down this road then every time we play Sevco or Celtic both Hibs and Hearts must at the very least comment on the sectarian singing and abuse spewing out of the away stands … they cant be calling out their own supports and then turn a blind eye to the far far worse behaviour from away fans of the bigot brothers.

It will be interesting to see what happens next season, because in view of recent events I cant see fans of Hibs or Hearts taking kindly to our clubs railing against their own supports and then failing to take the next very obvious step, because if that were to happen it would not be unreasonable for accusations of hypocrisy and cowardice to be bandied about.

Well said - by all means call out our own idiots, but don't miss theirs. :agree:

Moulin Yarns
12-04-2019, 11:18 AM
From what i've seen and heard about tynie, the section she has shut holds about 200 fans, although not all implicated in the bother, shutting this area means its harder for their fans to taunt and hurl abuse at the away fans!
I think it would maybe be advisable to close the adjacent section in the away fans end at the same time.
For years now it has become a battle ground of venom from both fans in this area.
Unfortunately this will not curb things being thrown as the culprits will be in another area of the ground and still be able to throw things!!!

The front corner sections of the Roseburn stand are already closed to away fans as was clear at the derby

BILLYHIBS
12-04-2019, 11:20 AM
I've made no secret of the fact that I have a sneaky wee liking for smoke bombs :greengrin …. but unfortunately they have to go.

As other posters have pointed out you can create a brilliant atmosphere at a game without descending into stupidity and anti social behaviour.

Fair play to Budge for her actions here, clearly following the lead from Leeann Dempster. Its a shame that we have gotten to this stage where clubs are having to spend thousands on non football related equipment. But as others have said, this is a statement of intent from both Edinburgh clubs who are prepared to call out the racists and bigots in their own support publicly. I still maintain its a small problem and perhaps more evident at Tynecastle than it is at Easter Road …. but the idea has to be to nip it in the bud before it does become a major issue.

But lets be clear here …. If we are to go down this road then every time we play Sevco or Celtic both Hibs and Hearts must at the very least comment on the sectarian singing and abuse spewing out of the away stands … they cant be calling out their own supports and then turn a blind eye to the far far worse behaviour from away fans of the bigot brothers. It will be interesting to see what happens next season, because in view of recent events I cant see fans of Hibs or Hearts taking kindly to our clubs railing against their own supports and then failing to take the next very obvious step.

When England recently played Montenegro and certain English players suffered racist abuse from a section of the Montenegro support UEFA said that one of the options available to the Referee was to remove both teams from the field of play due to the unacceptable behaviour of some Montenegro fans

Surely this must be an option open for us when the Ugly sisters come calling and sing their political and sectarian bile enmasse unchecked?

You are correct next season will be very interesting and the time is coming to call out the bigot brothers for their inbuilt sectarianism racism and political beliefs that have nothing to do with football or modern society

jgl07
12-04-2019, 11:20 AM
No, that's Section N(azi).

Hasn't that been closed on and off for years? It certainly was before the new stand was built.

matty_f
12-04-2019, 11:24 AM
Well said - by all means call out our own idiots, but don't miss theirs. :agree:

I think by taking action to deal with the incidents in our own support, it makes it significantly easier to call out other teams and ask them to deal with their fans.

As things stood it would have been very hollow to call out Rangers fans for anything while we've had a fan run on and confront one of their players, or Celtic fans after a Buckfast bottle was thrown at one of thier players and so on...

I am proud of Hibs for doing something that isn't universally popular in order to be the ones that set the tone in this debate.

We will get our house in order, ideally folk would have had enough self control and awareness to modify their behaviour so that they don't damage the club, but as that opportunity wasn't taken, I think it's right that the club act.

For the vasy majority of people that attend the games, their enjoyment won't in any way be diminished by the club's steps. In many cases, if it helps deal with behaviour that takes away from someone's enjoyment, the experience and atmosphere will be much better.

pacoluna
12-04-2019, 12:05 PM
When or if? I’m pretty sure the hefty sentence imposed to the young fan should get the ball rolling so to speak. The rise of social media is also a good way to shame these Neanderthals. It’s certainly a work in progress

I ask again what happened to the "old we guy" who was caught racially abusing the hearts player.

There seems to an emphasis on this being a generational issue within our support "younger supporters" which is absolutely nonsence and completely hypocritical given it was much, MUCH worse in the past. Would be interesting to hear their stories and the remorse they hold.

That's not deflecting btw it's just stating a fact that noone regardless of age should be taking a moral high ground.

NAE NOOKIE
12-04-2019, 12:12 PM
When England recently played Montenegro and certain English players suffered racist abuse from a section of the Montenegro support UEFA said that one of the options available to the Referee was to remove both teams from the field of play due to the unacceptable behaviour of some Montenegro fans

Surely this must be an option open for us when the Ugly sisters come calling and sing their political and sectarian bile enmasse unchecked?

You are correct next season will be very interesting and the time is coming to call out the bigot brothers for their inbuilt sectarianism racism and political beliefs that have nothing to do with football or modern society

In all honesty I cant ever see a time where the ref will remove the players from the pitch over sectarian singing, or any event where a team will decide arbitrarily to leave the field over it.

But as I said there has to come a time where clubs condemn sectarian behaviour. There is no merit whatsoever in any club saying that its up to the Ugly sisters to put their own house in order either, in their own stadiums yes, but you wouldn't invite somebody to a party in your own house and do nothing if they behaved in such a way as to ruin the event for everybody else there, and that's exactly what happens at Easter Road when they come calling. At that point we have the right, in fact a responsibility, to publicly condemn their behaviour and that's exactly what we should be doing if we are in any way serious about tackling this blight on our game.

It also means that our own fans should be above reproach and that's the message both Hibs and Hearts should be attempting to get over to their respective supports. Its not just about the image of individual clubs, its about the good of the whole of Scottish football. Part of that outlook is for something to happen which I've brought up before, it wont prove popular with sections of our support or the Hearts support but in my opinion its has to happen:

Yes we have the right to fly tricolours and Erin go Bragh flags, both are connected to our clubs foundations …. yes the Jambos have the right to wave union flags, after all ( for now at least :greengrin ) it is the flag of the country they belong to. But the fact is that by doing so and whether we like it or not the use of these symbols at our matches is helping to perpetuate the sectarianism which has blighted our game for a century. Its not a question of whether you can, its a question of whether you should.

B.H.F.C
12-04-2019, 05:21 PM
It’s not just Hibs and Hearts who have problems.

Spurs have banned a number of fans......for persistently standing at their new stadium. After two games!

BILLYHIBS
12-04-2019, 05:38 PM
In all honesty I cant ever see a time where the ref will remove the players from the pitch over sectarian singing, or any event where a team will decide arbitrarily to leave the field over it.

But as I said there has to come a time where clubs condemn sectarian behaviour. There is no merit whatsoever in any club saying that its up to the Ugly sisters to put their own house in order either, in their own stadiums yes, but you wouldn't invite somebody to a party in your own house and do nothing if they behaved in such a way as to ruin the event for everybody else there, and that's exactly what happens at Easter Road when they come calling. At that point we have the right, in fact a responsibility, to publicly condemn their behaviour and that's exactly what we should be doing if we are in any way serious about tackling this blight on our game.

It also means that our own fans should be above reproach and that's the message both Hibs and Hearts should be attempting to get over to their respective supports. Its not just about the image of individual clubs, its about the good of the whole of Scottish football. Part of that outlook is for something to happen which I've brought up before, it wont prove popular with sections of our support or the Hearts support but in my opinion its has to happen:

Yes we have the right to fly tricolours and Erin go Bragh flags, both are connected to our clubs foundations …. yes the Jambos have the right to wave union flags, after all ( for now at least :greengrin ) it is the flag of the country they belong to. But the fact is that by doing so and whether we like it or not the use of these symbols at our matches is helping to perpetuate the sectarianism which has blighted our game for a century. Its not a question of whether you can, its a question of whether you should.

Agree!

It tickles me that The Rangers call out Aberdeen for allegedly singing sectarian songs about their Roman Catholic Manager

Stevie Clarke was obviously genuinely in deep shock at the level of sectarian abuse he was subjected to at Ibrox

We know first hand the level of sectarian abuse Neil Lennon received in his time at Easter Road which must have done little for his mental health and well being

The political and sectarian agenda brought by the Green Brigade to Easter Road

The SFA and the Old Firm sweep all of these issues under the carpet hoping they will simply disappear

It is never their fault yet they are both the main perpetrators of the sectarian bile that blights our national sport

It smacks of pot kettle hypocrisy

As you say if we can get our own house in order then we can call out the Bigot Brothers

In fifty years of supporting HIBS I cannot remember singing any sectarian or political songs

:dunno:

silverhibee
12-04-2019, 05:42 PM
I would love to know what behaviour folk do at the football that they think will be stopped by this, individually.

I can't think of a single thing I do that I would expect to be told not to.

For anyone standing at games at ER beware, Spurs have already banned several fans from there new stadium for standing during the game. :greengrin

superfurryhibby
12-04-2019, 05:59 PM
Yes we have the right to fly tricolours and Erin go Bragh flags, both are connected to our clubs foundations …. yes the Jambos have the right to wave union flags, after all ( for now at least :greengrin ) it is the flag of the country they belong to. But the fact is that by doing so and whether we like it or not the use of these symbols at our matches is helping to perpetuate the sectarianism which has blighted our game for a century. Its not a question of whether you can, its a question of whether you should.

Sorry, not really buying into this. The Erin gu Bragh flags reflect the original club crest at Hibs and should only ever offend the very narrowest of minds. The tricolour is more tenuous, but it’s not exactly prolific, is it? When you compare that to the massed singing of sectarian songs by The Rangers, that horrible club’s pandering to bigotry in the form of an Orange away kit etc, etc.....I think we should not be too worried about perpetuating sectarianism at Easter Road.

When mentioning Hearts you omitted the Red Hand of Ulster flags? I’m also wondering why it’s ok for Hearts fans to wave union flags? For me that flag at Hearts matches is a reflection of a small, but prominent hardcore religious bampot element associated with Hearts. The kind of guys who form their own flute band and wear Maroon whilst parading the streets proclaiming themselves as the Heart of Midlothian Loyal. I’m not aware of any Hibernian focussed Anti Protestant groups, nor have I heard any massed singing of anti Orange songs at Easter Road in decades.

Onion
12-04-2019, 06:15 PM
Agree!

It tickles me that The Rangers call out Aberdeen for allegedly singing sectarian songs about their Roman Catholic Manager

Stevie Clarke was obviously genuinely in deep shock at the level of sectarian abuse he was subjected to at Ibrox

We know first hand the level of sectarian abuse Neil Lennon received in his time at Easter Road which must have done little for his mental health and well being

The political and sectarian agenda brought by the Green Brigade to Easter Road

The SFA and the Old Firm sweep all of these issues under the carpet hoping they will simply disappear

It is never their fault yet they are both the main perpetrators of the sectarian bile that blights our national sport

It smacks of pot kettle hypocrisy

As you say if we can get our own house in order then we can call out the Bigot Brothers

In fifty years of supporting HIBS I cannot remember singing any sectarian or political songs

:dunno:

That only works if the authorities, police, media, politicians and SFA are prepared to do the right thing when the main perpetrators are called out. For more years than I can remember the OF have been accused of unacceptable, sectarianism and the authorities who have been able to do something about this have done... nothing. In fact, the MSM have celebrated, advertised and suckled on this "special atmosphere" for years and would clearly HATE to see it addressed.

Nope, for me, the recent events involving other clubs like Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell and other so called smaller clubs (where no one has been injured) may well develop into the silver bullet that kills the bigger issue of sectarianism. These incident are forcing the media, clubs and authorities to face up to the wider - much more disturbing - OF "problem".

eastcoasthibby
12-04-2019, 06:32 PM
Bit over the top reaction by Budge i would say.

Howz it over the top ? its exactly the position we should be getting from all of the key people in the clubs, this immature pathetic nonsense needs to stop, as we have found its costing us hard cash that should be getting spent on the playing side.

SuperAllyMcleod
12-04-2019, 08:37 PM
Albeit with better punctuation.

I’d hope it would be better written - she used “being thrown” three times in one sentence! There were a quite a few basic errors in there.

Fair play for taking action though.

NAE NOOKIE
13-04-2019, 01:07 AM
Sorry, not really buying into this. The Erin gu Bragh flags reflect the original club crest at Hibs and should only ever offend the very narrowest of minds. The tricolour is more tenuous, but it’s not exactly prolific, is it? When you compare that to the massed singing of sectarian songs by The Rangers, that horrible club’s pandering to bigotry in the form of an Orange away kit etc, etc.....I think we should not be too worried about perpetuating sectarianism at Easter Road.

When mentioning Hearts you omitted the Red Hand of Ulster flags? I’m also wondering why it’s ok for Hearts fans to wave union flags? For me that flag at Hearts matches is a reflection of a small, but prominent hardcore religious bampot element associated with Hearts. The kind of guys who form their own flute band and wear Maroon whilst parading the streets proclaiming themselves as the Heart of Midlothian Loyal. I’m not aware of any Hibernian focussed Anti Protestant groups, nor have I heard any massed singing of anti Orange songs at Easter Road in decades.

This post explains more than I ever could why sectarianism will never be eradicated from Scottish football.

BILLYHIBS
13-04-2019, 06:35 AM
This post explains more than I ever could why sectarianism will never be eradicated from Scottish football.

Agree deep built into our society engrained and will be almost impossible to eradicate

No one said it would be easy

I would say that Hibernian Football Club is one of the least sectarian football clubs I know

Open to all. Catholic Protestant Muslim Hindhu. All religions colours creeds totally inclusive to embrace all cultures and nationalities

I remember during the early eighties during a rise of Irish nationalism in Scotland Tom Hart banned the Irish tricolour from our ground

It seemed to work at the time but seems to be making a come back but of course it is as you quite rightly point out it is part of our heritage a club founded by immigrants rejected by the authorities at the time now mutually inclusive a club open for all and most importantly the local community

What gets me is that anytime football violence is mentioned on TV you get images of pitch invasions fans attacking players green flares and coconuts all HIBS related

Yes every club has their radges but the real perpetrators the instigators agitators of sectarianism in Scotland are still whiter than white and are getting off scott free while they continue to pedal their own particular version of sectarian hatred in every ground in Scotland

superfurryhibby
13-04-2019, 12:04 PM
This post explains more than I ever could why sectarianism will never be eradicated from Scottish football.

A laughable and lazy response. Usually you’re not short on words and I enjoy your posts.

How does a handful of tricolours and a few Erin Gu Bragh at ER compare to the majority endorsement of religious hatred found in the singing and barely disguised official endorsement of religious division at Ibrox( the Orange away strip- contemptible pandering to the loyalist pound).

The hardcore Hearts fans interest in sectarianism, as per the flute band using their name and colours, has no parallel at Hibs. What historical attachment do Hearts fans have to the Red Hand flag? Once again overt displays of sectarianism?

The problem of perpetuating sectarianism partly with people who fail to see where the problem lies and you appear to be one of them.

When did you last here a religious hate based song at Easter Road? In my book it must be 30 years ago.

I genuinely don’t believe Hibs have a prominent group of fans with overt sectarian tendencies. Unfortunately, this is not the case at Ibrox, Celtic Park or Tynecastle.

The situations are different and pretending it is otherwise lends strength to status quo.

Paisley Hibby
13-04-2019, 12:34 PM
Sorry, not really buying into this. The Erin gu Bragh flags reflect the original club crest at Hibs and should only ever offend the very narrowest of minds. The tricolour is more tenuous, but it’s not exactly prolific, is it? When you compare that to the massed singing of sectarian songs by The Rangers, that horrible club’s pandering to bigotry in the form of an Orange away kit etc, etc.....I think we should not be too worried about perpetuating sectarianism at Easter Road.

When mentioning Hearts you omitted the Red Hand of Ulster flags? I’m also wondering why it’s ok for Hearts fans to wave union flags? For me that flag at Hearts matches is a reflection of a small, but prominent hardcore religious bampot element associated with Hearts. The kind of guys who form their own flute band and wear Maroon whilst parading the streets proclaiming themselves as the Heart of Midlothian Loyal. I’m not aware of any Hibernian focussed Anti Protestant groups, nor have I heard any massed singing of anti Orange songs at Easter Road in decades.
Just to play devil's advocate - if you believe The Rangers are not the same club as the one which went bust in 2012, then you'd have to accept that the Erin Gu Bragh flags also relate to a different club from ours.

I've certainly heard an anti-orange song regularly by Hibs fans within the past few decades - it starts "The Edinburgh Hibees, the Tim Mallory, for we'll not be mastered....". While we don't have the same level of sectarian problem of other some clubs, let's not pretend it doesn't exist. And as for the Tricolours - I hate to see that (and I'm a Catholic by the way).

Diclonius
13-04-2019, 12:40 PM
Just to play devil's advocate - if you believe The Rangers are not the same club as the one which went bust in 2012, then you'd have to accept that the Erin Gu Bragh flags also relate to a different club from ours.

I've certainly heard an anti-orange song regularly by Hibs fans within the past few decades - it starts "The Edinburgh Hibees, the Tim Mallory, for we'll not be mastered....". While we don't have the same level of sectarian problem of other some clubs, let's not pretend it doesn't exist. And as for the Tricolours - I hate to see that (and I'm a Catholic by the way).

Yup. The reason why sectarianism won't be eradicated in Scotland is that the prevailing attitude to it is "it's not us that's bad, it's everyone else". And that includes elements of our support too.

Collective responsibility won't happen because we all want to be the victim.

matty_f
13-04-2019, 12:59 PM
For anyone standing at games at ER beware, Spurs have already banned several fans from there new stadium for standing during the game. :greengrin

I think we'd have known about it by now if it was going to be happening at Easter Road :greengrin


No other takers to say what they do now that they think they'll be stopped from doing?

BILLYHIBS
13-04-2019, 01:13 PM
OK I admit I might have sung “ For we will be mastered by no orange b......” about 30 years ago but no way are we as bad nowadays as the Huns the diets or the smellies. :greengrin


:dunno:


:flag:

Paisley Hibby
13-04-2019, 01:18 PM
OK I admit I might have sung “ For we will be mastered by no orange b......” about 30 years ago but no way are we as bad nowadays as the Huns the diets or the smellies. :greengrin


:dunno:


:flag:

And there is the problem folks....

NAE NOOKIE
13-04-2019, 03:30 PM
A laughable and lazy response. Usually you’re not short on words and I enjoy your posts.

How does a handful of tricolours and a few Erin Gu Bragh at ER compare to the majority endorsement of religious hatred found in the singing and barely disguised official endorsement of religious division at Ibrox( the Orange away strip- contemptible pandering to the loyalist pound).

The hardcore Hearts fans interest in sectarianism, as per the flute band using their name and colours, has no parallel at Hibs. What historical attachment do Hearts fans have to the Red Hand flag? Once again overt displays of sectarianism?

The problem of perpetuating sectarianism partly with people who fail to see where the problem lies and you appear to be one of them.

When did you last here a religious hate based song at Easter Road? In my book it must be 30 years ago.

I genuinely don’t believe Hibs have a prominent group of fans with overt sectarian tendencies. Unfortunately, this is not the case at Ibrox, Celtic Park or Tynecastle.

The situations are different and pretending it is otherwise lends strength to status quo.


You quoted my post and then came up with an argument against it which directly went to the heart of the matter of what I had said when it comes to the perpetuation of sectarianism in this country's football. What did I say? That I was not arguing against the right of Hibs fans to wave Erin go Bragh flags or tricolours and neither was I arguing against the right of Hearts fans to wave union flags … I'm not sure where Ulster flags come into it IMO they cant show any right to wave them, which is why I didn't mention them.

You seem to have entirely missed the pretty obvious point that I was making so I'll reiterate it. The point at issue isn't whether or not fans have a right to wave certain flags, or even a discussion about who does or doesn't have the biggest problem with sectarianism. The point was that if we want to eradicate sectarianism from the terraces then at least as a first step we need to set aside flags and symbols which perpetuate it, no matter how much 'right' we have to wave them and no matter how innocent our intentions when we use them.

Your response to my post was to argue a point that I had already conceded, so if my response to you was lazy then your failure to interpret the case I was making in my post showed that your reading of it was definitely lazy. I cant see where my wish to see the visible symbols which fuel sectarianism, no matter how unintentionally, can in any way be interpreted as giving strength to the status quo as you put it. That only holds water if the argument is about who has a right to do what and a whitabootery discussion regarding who is more sectarian …. that's not the argument I'm making, the argument is about what we can do to eradicate it.

All you did was to indulge in the never ending argument about who can or cant do what and who has or hasn't got the right to fly what flag. That's exactly the attitude which has fuelled sectarianism for decades …. I am not saying you are consciously advocating sectarianism, just that the argument you present has been driving it and will continue to do so unless we change.

superfurryhibby
13-04-2019, 03:35 PM
Just to play devil's advocate - if you believe The Rangers are not the same club as the one which went bust in 2012, then you'd have to accept that the Erin Gu Bragh flags also relate to a different club from ours.

I've certainly heard an anti-orange song regularly by Hibs fans within the past few decades - it starts "The Edinburgh Hibees, the Tim Mallory, for we'll not be mastered....". While we don't have the same level of sectarian problem of other some clubs, let's not pretend it doesn't exist. And as for the Tricolours - I hate to see that (and I'm a Catholic by the way).

The song starts with forever and ever, we’ll follow the boys. Not heard it sung for decades at ER but I don’t go to away games so can’t say that it’s never sung then.

I’m not pretending anything. What I’m saying is that we must be looking at the issue with proportionality. There is a huge, enormous, massive, fundamental difference between the levels of interest and endorsement of religious hatred between Hibs and Rangers fans. Is that not a basic fact?

The presence of a flag with a harp and slogan, as well a few numpties with tricolours bears no relationship to what we see at some other clubs, whether you hate to see them at Hibs or not. It’s not misguided whataboutery on my part, it’s just pointing out some basic facts.

There are many views and many persuasions amongst the Hibsfan base, including racists, homophobes, xenophobes, we even have people who are keen to demonstrate their British credentials ( see the large green and black union flags). There is proportionally as many views as there are amongst supporters of any club. But common sense and my own eyes and ears tell me our contribution to Scotland’s sectarian issue is minimal.

NAE NOOKIE
13-04-2019, 03:40 PM
The song starts with forever and ever, we’ll follow the boys. Not heard it sung for decades at ER but I don’t go to away games so can’t say that it’s never sung then.

I’m not pretending anything. What I’m saying is that we must be looking at the issue with proportionality. There is a huge, enormous, massive, fundamental difference between the levels of interest and endorsement of religious hatred between Hibs and Rangers fans. Is that not a basic fact?

The presence of a flag with a harp and slogan, as well a few numpties with tricolours bears no relationship to what we see at some other clubs, whether you hate to see them at Hibs or not. It’s not misguided whataboutery on my part, it’s just pointing out some basic facts.

There are many views and many persuasions amongst the Hibsfan base, including racists, homophobes, xenophobes, we even have people who are keen to demonstrate their British credentials ( see the large green and black union flags). There is proportionally as many views as there are amongst supporters of any club. But common sense and my own eyes and ears tell me our contribution to Scotland’s sectarian issue is minimal.

I'm pretty sure the guys who came up with them were doing so from a point of view that they looked cool rather than any desire to show their 'Britishness' … only based on the fact that I'm sure on another flag debate thread that's what they said. I stand to be corrected by any of the folk behind those flags.

superfurryhibby
13-04-2019, 03:42 PM
You quoted my post and then came up with an argument against it which directly went to the heart of the matter of what I had said when it comes to the perpetuation of sectarianism in this country's football. What did I say? That I was not arguing against the right of Hibs fans to wave Erin go Bragh flags or tricolours and neither was I arguing against the right of Hearts fans to wave union flags … I'm not sure where Ulster flags come into it IMO they cant show any right to wave them, which is why I didn't mention them.

You seem to have entirely missed the pretty obvious point that I was making so I'll reiterate it. The point at issue isn't whether or not fans have a right to wave certain flags, or even a discussion about who does or doesn't have the biggest problem with sectarianism. The point was that if we want to eradicate sectarianism from the terraces then at least as a first step we need to set aside flags and symbols which perpetuate it, no matter how much 'right' we have to wave them and no matter how innocent our intentions when we use them.

Your response to my post was to argue a point that I had already conceded, so if my response to you was lazy then your failure to interpret the case I was making in my post showed that your reading of it was definitely lazy. I cant see where my wish to see the visible symbols which fuel sectarianism, no matter how unintentionally, can in any way be interpreted as giving strength to the status quo as you put it. That only holds water if the argument is about who has a right to do what and a whitabootery discussion regarding who is more sectarian …. that's not the argument I'm making, the argument is about what we can do to eradicate it.

All you did was to indulge in the never ending argument about who can or cant do what and who has or hasn't got the right to fly what flag. That's exactly the attitude which has fuelled sectarianism for decades …. I am not saying you are consciously advocating sectarianism, just that the argument you present has been driving it and will continue to do so unless we change.

No, the argument I presented said that we have very few issues with overt sectarianism amongst our support. That fact does not drive sectarianism. Ignoring the reality of the nature of religious division in Scottish football and seeking to drag our club into it is bizarre.

kdhibees1
13-04-2019, 04:11 PM
I ask again what happened to the "old we guy" who was caught racially abusing the hearts player.

There seems to an emphasis on this being a generational issue within our support "younger supporters" which is absolutely nonsence and completely hypocritical given it was much, MUCH worse in the past. Would be interesting to hear their stories and the remorse they hold.

That's not deflecting btw it's just stating a fact that noone regardless of age should be taking a moral high ground.

Maybe used the same excuse as Jeremy Corbyn when he was accused of slurring against Theresa May. A lip sync but not proven blurt out perhaps??

BILLYHIBS
13-04-2019, 04:27 PM
And there is the problem folks....

It was my attempt at humour/irony

Still think we are not as bad as the bigots

Moulin Yarns
13-04-2019, 04:38 PM
I'm pretty sure the guys who came up with them were doing so from a point of view that they looked cool rather than any desire to show their 'Britishness' … only based on the fact that I'm sure on another flag debate thread that's what they said. I stand to be corrected by any of the folk behind those flags.


I am sure at least one of the union flags has names of past Hibees names on it to remember them. Someone can maybe confirm this.

My wife mentioned the green union flag recently when it was shown on TV and that's what I thought it was.

BILLYHIBS
13-04-2019, 04:43 PM
I am sure at least one of the union flags has names of past Hibees names on it to remember them. Someone can maybe confirm this.

My wife mentioned the green union flag recently when it was shown on TV and that's what I thought it was.

Hmmmm!

Usually associated with HIBS Casuals movement

Capital City Service

silverhibee
13-04-2019, 04:46 PM
I am sure at least one of the union flags has names of past Hibees names on it to remember them. Someone can maybe confirm this.

My wife mentioned the green union flag recently when it was shown on TV and that's what I thought it was.

One is a CCS flag and pretty sure the other one has some English connection.

BILLYHIBS
13-04-2019, 05:00 PM
I am sure at least one of the union flags has names of past Hibees names on it to remember them. Someone can maybe confirm this.

My wife mentioned the green union flag recently when it was shown on TV and that's what I thought it was.

CCS Flag and Spirits in the Sky banner at the 2016 SC Final

Smartie
13-04-2019, 05:03 PM
Did "Liverpool Hibs" not have a green and black Union flag?

Ringothedog
13-04-2019, 05:34 PM
Hmmmm!

Usually associated with HIBS Casuals movement

Capital City Service

And still is👍

Moulin Yarns
13-04-2019, 05:42 PM
And still is👍

Thanks for the replies guys. Clears it up.

NAE NOOKIE
13-04-2019, 05:58 PM
No, the argument I presented said that we have very few issues with overt sectarianism amongst our support. That fact does not drive sectarianism. Ignoring the reality of the nature of religious division in Scottish football and seeking to drag our club into it is bizarre.

I'm not ignoring the subject of religious division in the slightest.

Here's the facts around religious division in Scottish football. The vast vast majority of folk who follow Rangers and Hearts or Hibs and Celtic are about as religious as the chairman of the British atheist society and you would be as likely to find them in a church or chapel as the local humanist adherent.

The real meat and bones around football's sectarian divide is now far more nationalistic than religious, even if its beginnings were in Ireland's religious divide. The union flag and red hand of Ulster flag wavers are all about Britishness and unionism covered in a veneer of Protestantism, that's the reality of it. The obvious counter culture to that is the tricolour …. and the basis for that is a support of Irish unity, not an anti Protestant standpoint. But the effect is the same … wave a union flag you must be Protestant, wave a tricolour you must be Catholic.

I don't know why you are lecturing me over some perceived idea that I have suggested the Hibs support has a sectarian element, I have never suggested any such thing because there simply isn't any evidence for it. In all honesty I don't think Hearts have much in the way of a sectarian element either, their far bigger problem is a turn towards right wing British nationalism by the minority of dafties in their support … even if it is dressed up as and perceived as sectarianism.

How you can suggest I'm trying to drag Hibs into the sectarian question is bizarre. All I am saying is that from time to time the symbols that have been seen as the visual signs of the sectarian divide in this country are seen within the Hibs support … IE the tricolour and Erin go Bragh flags. It doesn't matter a toss if the folk using these flags say and genuinely believe that they are in honour of our clubs founders or that Erin go Bragh was the clubs original motto, their use enables … and that's the salient point here 'enables' … the knuckle draggers on the other side to indulge in whitabootery.

That's the bottom line in this discussion and I don't know why you continue to lecture me on points I have already conceded from the very beginning. The point isn't whether or not our support, or any support for that matter, has a sectarian element, the point is that if we are to seriously address the problem we have to get away from the fact that we have a right to do this or that and ask the question of whether not doing it would help to eradicate sectarian culture from the whole of Scottish football.

In my opinion if we were to make that sacrifice we would be setting an example which would be a first step on that road. For sure anybody could turn around and say 'aye but why should we when the others wont?' …. but if that is to be the case then we can look forward to the whole vicious circle going on and on and on.

Kato
13-04-2019, 06:05 PM
The real meat and bones around football's sectarian divide is now far more nationalistic than religious, even if its beginnings were in Ireland's religious divide.

The religious divide in Ireland was always political.

NAE NOOKIE
15-04-2019, 12:37 AM
The religious divide in Ireland was always political.

I agree … but the politics are still driven by sectarianism, the two being hopelessly intertwined with Protestants voting one way and Catholics voting the other, a fact which is still the case in Northern Irish politics. Its just that these days the politics is far more important than the religion .. about 90% of the folk who vote for the DUP don't even agree with their policies on abortion or gay marriage, but they still vote for them because they are the pro union party.

That's what I was alluding to in my other posts …. I genuinely believe that your average modern day currant bun singing his sectarian bile doesn't really hate Kaffliks, he just thinks he does .. the truth is the union v a united Ireland is far more to the fore in his thinking than any thoughts of theological divisions.

Whether its religious or political its still sectarianism and at the end of the day arguing the semantics doesn't really address the problem.

jacomo
15-04-2019, 12:50 PM
Sure we could pick holes in it but cant see much wrong with the message..


There’s a problem with the message if you can’t finish the 4th paragraph without falling asleep.

She may be well intentioned but I lost the will to find out what action Hearts are taking.

Keith_M
15-04-2019, 01:07 PM
....we even have people who are keen to demonstrate their British credentials ( see the large green and black union flags). ....


You need to do some more research before stating that so categorically.

I have no doubt that there are Hibs Fans that are proud to be British, but you're wrong about that flag.

Dalianwanda
15-04-2019, 01:40 PM
There’s a problem with the message if you can’t finish the 4th paragraph without falling asleep.

She may be well intentioned but I lost the will to find out what action Hearts are taking.

I doubt your her target demographic though :wink:

superfurryhibby
15-04-2019, 02:32 PM
You need to do some more research before stating that so categorically.

I have no doubt that there are Hibs Fans that are proud to be British, but you're wrong about that flag.

Well why don’t you simply explain the mystery?

BILLYHIBS
15-04-2019, 03:32 PM
The green and black union flag is used by the CCS

Probably because it looks quite cool and to wynd up the Celtic The Huns and the diets

Probably the green and white to represent HIBS and the black to represent a darker more sinister undercurrent

Nothing to do whatsoever with a longing to be part of a United Kingdom although I am sure there might be some hibbies out there that do

Mystery solved

CentreLine
15-04-2019, 03:49 PM
The religious divide in Ireland was always political.

Yes and it is only very recently, more or less the last 50 years, that is has been portrayed as a Catholic v Protestant thing. It was a Church of Ireland v any other form of Christianity thing, based on imposing a political and fiscal dominance. Very few of the leaders of the various rebellion/uprisings in Ireland were catholic.

People keep saying “if you know your history” then demonstrate quite clearly that they don’t.

It is, to a lesser extent, suggested of Jacobite uprising in Scotland that it was a Protestant v catholic struggle. Yet only one in five of the Jacobite army was catholic and the pope supported William of Orange at the start of all that bit of it

Polarisation needs only two poles and so it suits some parties to simplify these things down to Protestant v Catholic in the modern day.

superfurryhibby
15-04-2019, 10:21 PM
The green and black union flag is used by the CCS

Probably because it looks quite cool and to wynd up the Celtic The Huns and the diets

Probably the green and white to represent HIBS and the black to represent a darker more sinister undercurrent

Nothing to do whatsoever with a longing to be part of a United Kingdom although I am sure there might be some hibbies out there that do

Mystery solved

There’s me thinking casuals didn’t sport colours, except on the cover of their book (s). To be fair, I (vaguely) knew one or two guys involved 30 years ago and let’s just say their views weren’t exactly left wing.

CMurdoch
15-04-2019, 11:17 PM
Some wonderful posts by Nae Nookie on this thread.
Nails all my thoughts on the matters of flags, perception, the way forward etc far more eloquently than i ever could. The best i have seen on here.
:top marks:flag::top marks

A good post from Centreline as well.

Brizo
16-04-2019, 05:59 AM
The green and black union flag is used by the CCS

Probably because it looks quite cool and to wynd up the Celtic The Huns and the diets

Probably the green and white to represent HIBS and the black to represent a darker more sinister undercurrent

Nothing to do whatsoever with a longing to be part of a United Kingdom although I am sure there might be some hibbies out there that do

Mystery solved

I don't pretend to be in the know with this type of thing but i'd suggest there were / are some CCS people who share the clubs Irish origins and some who were / are Republican minded, so don't think anything political can be read into this flag. Just like the Hibs support as a whole they seem to me to be a pretty broad church of different views and while there were / are right wing types involved that's not the motivation for the flag afaik. Back in the 80s black was kind of our unofficial third colour so id suggest nothing more sinister than that.

As to the whole "orange b" thing I had plenty atheist mates of Protestant origin who used to sing that song as they viewed orange as something very different from Protestant. However in the world of whataboutery im sure the huns will counter that "fenians" means Republicans and not all Catholics. Havent heard the "tim malloy" song sung for a while but given the world of whataboutery we live in, hopefully it will totally drop off the Hibs songbook.

BILLYHIBS
16-04-2019, 06:04 AM
I don't pretend to be in the know with this type of thing but i'd suggest there were / are some CCS people who share the clubs Irish origins and some who were / are Republican minded, so don't think anything political can be read into this flag. Just like the Hibs support as a whole they seem to me to be a pretty broad church of different views and while there were / are right wing types involved that's not the motivation for the flag afaik. Back in the 80s black was kind of our unofficial third colour so id suggest nothing more sinister than that.

As to the whole "orange b" thing I had plenty atheist mates of Protestant origin who used to sing that song as they viewed orange as something very different from Protestant. However in the world of whataboutery im sure the huns will counter that "fenians" means Republicans and not all Catholics. Havent heard the "tim malloy" song sung for a while but given the world of whataboutery we live in, hopefully it will totally drop off the Hibs songbook.

:aok:

Pretty much where I am and how I remember it

These colours don’t run :greengrin

Brizo
16-04-2019, 06:08 AM
:aok:

Pretty much where I am and how I remember it

These colours don’t run :greengrin


These dodgy knees don't run :greengrin :aok: