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Hibs90
07-04-2019, 03:22 PM
https://twitter.com/jadeaitken_9/status/1114859009922805760

Keith_M
07-04-2019, 03:27 PM
Racists are total Ar5hol3s, no matter which team they support.

A Hibs Fan was lifted not that long ago at ER for racist comments. They should be shouted down at every opportunity.

whiskas
07-04-2019, 03:49 PM
Said it before and I’ll say it again. I don’t know how any football fan can be racist in this day and age.

leither17
07-04-2019, 03:55 PM
I could see this happening from where I was sitting couldn’t hear what was going on though

SeanWilson
07-04-2019, 04:06 PM
Said it before and I’ll say it again. I don’t know how any football fan can be racist in this day and age.

Take out football fan, replace with anyone.

Luckily, I get the feeling big Marv is made of stronger stuff.

660
07-04-2019, 04:12 PM
https://twitter.com/freddyheron/status/1114887373547102218?s=21

DaveF
07-04-2019, 04:42 PM
https://twitter.com/freddyheron/status/1114887373547102218?s=21

Page does not exist now but the guy has previous according to a Celtic blog article.

Bangkok Hibby
07-04-2019, 04:46 PM
Said it before and I’ll say it again. I don’t know how any football fan can be racist in this day and age.

Football and racism is not mutually exclusive

hibsbollah
07-04-2019, 04:52 PM
Said it before and I’ll say it again. I don’t know how any football fan can be racist in this day and age.

In this day and age it's more prevalent than its been since the early 80s. It's aw the fashion again, just look round the world. Montenegro, Serbia, Russia, Italy all in the news for hilarious monkey noises at black players japery.

And three examples in just one day in England yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/06/derby-wigan-northampton-alleged-racist-abuse

Frazerbob
07-04-2019, 04:53 PM
I saw this at the time but couldn’t hear what was being shouted. Guy with the Red Hand Flag was loosing the plot and being pushed back from the gate by the police. Marv was enjoying winding him up. They really hate Marv for some reason.

Peevemor
07-04-2019, 05:03 PM
Some people are racist. They can't help it and may even try to fight it, but it's still there.

Those comfortable enough with their racism to openly shout abuse is a different thing.

bawheid
07-04-2019, 05:21 PM
They really hate Marv for some reason.

It’s because during his time at Hibernian, Marvin Bartley has had HMFC in his back pocket.

Superfurry72
07-04-2019, 05:27 PM
Some people are racist. They can't help it and may even try to fight it, but it's still there.

Those comfortable enough with their racism to openly shout abuse is a different thing.

I mentioned this on a previous thread, but we had a racist cabbie on the way to the game yesterday. When pulled up he didn’t even apologise.

Keith_M
07-04-2019, 05:34 PM
In this day and age it's more prevalent than its been since the early 80s. It's aw the fashion again, just look round the world. Montenegro, Serbia, Russia, Italy all in the news for hilarious monkey noises at black players japery.

And three examples in just one day in England yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/06/derby-wigan-northampton-alleged-racist-abuse


Sadly, many eastern European countries seem to have very large problems with racist fans.

It dwarfs anything in the UK.

hibsbollah
07-04-2019, 05:49 PM
Sadly, many eastern European countries seem to have very large problems with racist fans.

It dwarfs anything in the UK.

I think there's a danger of complacency in that attitude, to be honest. In the 80s England was the beating heart of racist football violence, and wider political changes mean it's clearly making a comeback. No doubt there is a more serious problem in Eastern and Central European at the moment in stadiums in relation to the monkey chant thing, but that's partly because of ultra culture, large groups being able to congregate together, lack of monitoring of ticket sales and no CCTV.

whiskas
07-04-2019, 05:55 PM
Take out football fan, replace with anyone.

Luckily, I get the feeling big Marv is made of stronger stuff.

I specified football fan given every team in the country has at least one BAME player in their team. I don’t understand the cognitive dissonance in shouting racist abuse at opposing teams players and cheering on your own.

Jumbo
07-04-2019, 07:15 PM
The linesman must've heard what was said as he was yelling at Marv "don't get involved" when they had a corner.

MWHIBBIES
07-04-2019, 07:17 PM
Sadly, many eastern European countries seem to have very large problems with racist fans.

It dwarfs anything in the UK.

England has a big racism problem, not just football related.

BILLYHIBS
07-04-2019, 07:31 PM
Looked to me as though The Bartman was laughing at the guy and saying to him come and have a go if you think you are hard enough

Still no need and no employee should be exposed or subjected to abuse of any kind while going about what is effectively his job

I hope Budgie is made aware of this

Do not mention coconuts :greengrin

AltheHibby
07-04-2019, 07:32 PM
England has a big racism problem, not just football related.

So has Scotland. Whether we like it or not anti-English behaviour is racist.

RIP
07-04-2019, 07:51 PM
Really disappointed at the treatment that Marv received yesterday.

I look forward to the time when fellow fans start pulling people up for this but in the modern era we have had to tolerate groups like the SDL pitching up at the foot of the Walk like they own the place. When you go in the bogs under the East you might be unlucky enough to overhear a couple of them having a meeting.

I know we have to respect that everyone has different beliefs but personally speaking I’m sad we have to tolerate these people within our own ranks.

SChibs
07-04-2019, 07:52 PM
I seen Mallan was spat on too when he was at the sidelines. They really are a strange breed.

Dashing Bob S
07-04-2019, 08:00 PM
So has Scotland. Whether we like it or not anti-English behaviour is racist.

I’m not so sure. It’s certainly unpleasant and even a hate crime but Scottish and English people are generally from the same race.

AltheHibby
07-04-2019, 09:13 PM
True, Bob, I can't disagree. However, sadly I have heard the Celtic (race) v Anglo Saxon stuff too often. Including aimed at me during the Scottish independence referendum for having English blood in me.

Antifa Hibs
08-04-2019, 08:21 AM
RIP wrote...
Really disappointed at the treatment that Marv received yesterday.

I look forward to the time when fellow fans start pulling people up for this but in the modern era we have had to tolerate groups like the SDL pitching up at the foot of the Walk like they own the place. When you go in the bogs under the East you might be unlucky enough to overhear a couple of them having a meeting.

I know we have to respect that everyone has different beliefs but personally speaking I’m sad we have to tolerate these people within our own ranks.

In all my years of sitting/standing in the old east and new in the last 20 years I can't ever recall hearing a racist remark let alone seeing SDL types having a meeting in the concourse or bogs. I've never even saw an SDL pin-badge or patch or anything like that.

SRHibs
08-04-2019, 08:30 AM
In all my years of sitting/standing in the old east and new in the last 20 years I can't ever recall hearing a racist remark let alone seeing SDL types having a meeting in the concourse or bogs. I've never even saw an SDL pin-badge or patch or anything like that.

I have heard racist comments many times. Not so much in the recent past though, so it definitely seems to have heavily improved, although you wouldn’t believe so from reading the papers.

SRHibs
08-04-2019, 08:30 AM
So has Scotland. Whether we like it or not anti-English behaviour is racist.

Aye, and likewise I’d like everyone down here who’s called me a jock jailed for hate crimes.

we are hibs
08-04-2019, 09:00 AM
He got the last laugh as he and mcnulty got it up them at the end and he strode off the park at tynie as if he owns the place.
It's 2019. Hard to fathom that some people still have the mentality to racially abuse anyone.

Hibbyradge
08-04-2019, 09:00 AM
Aye, and likewise I’d like everyone down here who’s called me a jock jailed for hate crimes.

Jock isn't even an insult never mind a hate crime.

Phil MaGlass
08-04-2019, 09:25 AM
Has anything happened with this guy, arrested?

Clarence
08-04-2019, 09:37 AM
So has Scotland. Whether we like it or not anti-English behaviour is racist.

I don’t think Scotland has a problem with anti English abuse. Especially not in Edinburgh where there are so many English people. Some of my best friends are English.

Clarence
08-04-2019, 09:41 AM
Aye, and likewise I’d like everyone down here who’s called me a jock jailed for hate crimes.

I work in the City a lot and the number of haggis comments I’ve heard is embarrassing but I don’t consider it abuse.

ben johnson
08-04-2019, 12:11 PM
I work in the City a lot and the number of haggis comments I’ve heard is embarrassing but I don’t consider it abuse.

We work in England all week.
Sweaty Sock.
Tight wads
Skirt wearing scroungers
Re build Hadrian’s wall
Time England left you in the lurch

And that’s our best customer talking to us
Water off a ducks back.

NAE NOOKIE
08-04-2019, 12:13 PM
So has Scotland. Whether we like it or not anti-English behaviour is racist.

Bigoted and xenophobic certainly … I doubt you could call it racists.

To pretend we don't have a problem with anti English sentiment would be foolish, but IMO its nowhere near as rampant as certain people who would love to push that agenda as a stick to beat anybody who believes in Scottish independence with would have folk believe. I would be willing to bet that there isn't a single person on this forum who hasn't worked, or works, with English people or who doesn't have English friends, relatives or at least acquaintances.

I have worked with many many English folk over my working life and I have never heard a single one say they have been abused because they are English. Our walking football team has about 25 members of whom around a quarter are English. My point being if Scotland was anywhere near the hostile environment some folk make out I doubt it would be such a popular place for English people to locate to.

Do we have brain dead morons who have watched Braveheart and think the English are the 'enemy' as a result, yes we do, but they are a tiny proportion of the population. Its not so long ago that an SNP MP was told to 'get back to your own country' and bizarrely called 'a traitor to England' in the street outside of Parliament. We have also heard an SNP MP told to 'go home' by a fellow member of parliament inside the chamber.

I doubt a few incidents like that which are widely reported correlate to rampant anti Scottish xenophobia within the English population any more than the few trolls and idiots in Scotland who express anti English sentiment represent the majority of our population.

As for the Bartley incident …. I would imagine the vast majority of Hearts fans will be disgusted to see what happened and want to disassociate themselves from the idiot concerned.

Brightside
08-04-2019, 12:21 PM
So has Scotland. Whether we like it or not anti-English behaviour is racist.

Its not. They are the same race in most cases. Xenophic yes....but not racist.

Iggy Pope
08-04-2019, 12:22 PM
Wonder what the big man makes of this debate, him being English and black. Does that make him mixed race? Some ***** on here and quite often.

Keith_M
08-04-2019, 01:01 PM
I think there's a danger of complacency in that attitude, to be honest. In the 80s England was the beating heart of racist football violence, and wider political changes mean it's clearly making a comeback. No doubt there is a more serious problem in Eastern and Central European at the moment in stadiums in relation to the monkey chant thing, but that's partly because of ultra culture, large groups being able to congregate together, lack of monitoring of ticket sales and no CCTV.


I wssn't intending to downplay racism here.

I've worked with people from a number of countries and a number of those from Easter Europe (Ukraine, Poland and Croats) were of the view that their own countries had a lot of catching up to do when it came to racist attitudes.

However, I have relatives who are very racist, so I'm not deluded enough to think we have no problems.

HoboHarry
08-04-2019, 02:16 PM
Its not. They are the same race in most cases. Xenophic yes....but not racist.
Correct :agree:

we are hibs
08-04-2019, 02:20 PM
https://twitter.com/holyroodboxing/status/1115248041227956224?s=19


Disgraceful

DaveF
08-04-2019, 02:26 PM
https://twitter.com/holyroodboxing/status/1115248041227956224?s=19


Disgraceful

Well that should lead to a hefty jail sentence.

And for the benefit of hearts, it'll be the guy just behind him in the bright yellow jacket when you review your cctv.

0762
08-04-2019, 02:55 PM
Appalling behaviour but looks like quick action - looks like someone arrested today over incident.

Similarly 2 others, one for a pyro and the other throwing a coin.

Absolutely no place for these type of people in football.

AltheHibby
08-04-2019, 02:57 PM
Aye, and likewise I’d like everyone down here who’s called me a jock jailed for hate crimes.

Seriously? I'm talking about being told to "F... Off back to England where I belong". Calling Scots Jocks and officers Ruperts was common in The MOD when I worked there and I never heard anyone take offence.

Iggy Pope
08-04-2019, 03:19 PM
https://twitter.com/holyroodboxing/status/1115248041227956224?s=19


Disgraceful

That’s pretty horrible to hear. Its mind boggling there isn’t the sound of a punch in the mouth followed by picture loss. Edinburgh Derby or White Power rally? Who in the name of **** uses these words?

Centre Hawf
08-04-2019, 03:27 PM
https://stv.tv/news/east-central/1436900-fan-arrested-after-hibs-marvin-bartley-racially-abused/

That was quick.

blackpoolhibs
08-04-2019, 03:31 PM
That video is just a wow moment that i certainly never hear these days, glad they have arrested the gimp. :top marks


Why is it so quickly addressed yet bigotry is seemingly ignored? :confused:

Kato
08-04-2019, 03:43 PM
Why is it so quickly addressed yet bigotry is seemingly ignored? :confused:

Because it's harder to identify 40,000 singing sectarian songs than it is to just catch one person, apparently.

HibbyAndy
08-04-2019, 03:44 PM
https://stv.tv/news/east-central/1436900-fan-arrested-after-hibs-marvin-bartley-racially-abused/

That was quick.

Charged but no mention off being banned from Tiny ?:confused:

CMurdoch
08-04-2019, 03:58 PM
That video is just a wow moment that i certainly never hear these days, glad they have arrested the gimp. :top marks


Why is it so quickly addressed yet bigotry is seemingly ignored? :confused:

Think he was captured at the game.

Captain Trips
08-04-2019, 04:02 PM
Horrible C##t

Carheenlea
08-04-2019, 04:05 PM
The footage is absolutely sickening. Thankfully the man has been identified and arrested promptly (a 38 year old man at that), and I’d like to think that the police have been assisted by other Hearts fans who were sat nearby in identifying the moron.
Tou could see at the game there was a bit of abuse forthcoming towards Bartley and the other subs and there was a bit of toing and froing back and forward with smiles all round from the Hibs boys, so was genuinely shocked when hearing the dialogue in that clip. Dialogue obviously not heard from Bartley and the other subs.

CMurdoch
08-04-2019, 04:09 PM
Will get the jail for that.
Outrageous in a very bad way.

Topographic Hibby
08-04-2019, 04:31 PM
Will get the jail for that.
Outrageous in a very bad way.I’ve just posted on the 100 days thread about the jailed Hibby, so in the interests of balance, I have no sympathy for this Hearts racist bigot and hope he gets at least 100 days also.

Borderhibbie76
08-04-2019, 04:32 PM
I have heard racist comments many times. Not so much in the recent past though, so it definitely seems to have heavily improved, although you wouldn’t believe so from reading the papers.As have I not to mention the Homophopic remarks almost weekly...we are quick enough to condemn the abuse of LD on Twitter by Jambos but it comes out the mouths of an element own support weekly ...which is very disappointing TBH.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

pontius pilate
08-04-2019, 04:40 PM
Its not. They are the same race in most cases. Xenophic yes....but not racist.

I would say it is racist. If you called someone an English **** in the street you would be charged with a breach of the peace with the racial element thrown in for good measure

neil7908
08-04-2019, 04:51 PM
I would say it is racist. If you called someone an English **** in the street you would be charged with a breach of the peace with the racial element thrown in for good measure

Definition of racism:

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

Key part is someone of a different race. Not to downplay anti English abuse in any way but by no common meaning of the word is it racism.

pontius pilate
08-04-2019, 04:52 PM
It's not just confined to black players either. Son has come out and stated since he has moved to England he has been racially abused on more than one occasion. The English FA has tried to take the moral high ground since the sterling incident yet no club in the premier league championship or football league record these horrible incidents. How can we ever win the fight against this if we as fans report it to the club yet no records are kept as they see it as a police issue. Surely keeping a record would let clubs not only work closer with police but deal with these people as they see fit

pontius pilate
08-04-2019, 04:54 PM
Definition of racism:

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

Key part is someone of a different race. Not to downplay anti English abuse in any way but by no common meaning of the word is it racism.

Not wanting an argument with you mate but around 10 years ago after a minor disturbance with my ex and her new fella I inexplicably called her an English cow. I was subsequently charged and appeared in court with a breach of the peace with the racial element thrown in for good measure

Here’s Lucy!
08-04-2019, 05:03 PM
Because it's harder to identify 40,000 singing sectarian songs than it is to just catch one person, apparently.

It's also too much work for them.

neil7908
08-04-2019, 05:13 PM
Not wanting an argument with you mate but around 10 years ago after a minor disturbance with my ex and her new fella I inexplicably called her an English cow. I was subsequently charged and appeared in court with a breach of the peace with the racial element thrown in for good measure

Wow, I'm genuinely shocked by that. Take back my post above, just seems crazy to me that they law would define that as racism.

Carheenlea
08-04-2019, 06:20 PM
Marvin’s dignified response.

https://i.postimg.cc/jjKHDmQJ/23-D763-E4-EB54-4-DE7-8593-9539-ABBB55-C4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/cv9gjDzs)

bingo70
08-04-2019, 06:25 PM
Jock isn't even an insult never mind a hate crime.

I know the debate has moved on a bit from this post but just want to say that I personally find the term Jock insulting.

It’s a term I associate as a derogatory name used by English people to describe Scottish people. You might not find it insulting and that’s fine, think you live in England so you’ve maybe got a different interpretation of the word but I don’t think a blanket statement of it not being an insult is correct.

matty_f
08-04-2019, 06:26 PM
Marvin’s dignified response.

https://i.postimg.cc/jjKHDmQJ/23-D763-E4-EB54-4-DE7-8593-9539-ABBB55-C4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/cv9gjDzs)

I love Marvin. Just putting that out there.

SRHibs
08-04-2019, 06:28 PM
Seriously? I'm talking about being told to "F... Off back to England where I belong". Calling Scots Jocks and officers Ruperts was common in The MOD when I worked there and I never heard anyone take offence.

Was just joking, or exaggerating. Jock is about the worst “racism” I’ve received here, and it was said lightheartedly.

we are hibs
08-04-2019, 06:28 PM
I love Marvin. Just putting that out there.

https://twitter.com/calvin_charlton/status/1114940581720072192?s=19


In the end hes the one who went home a winner. That racist cretin went home a loser in more than one way.

Mick O'Rourke
08-04-2019, 06:37 PM
Charged but no mention off being banned from Tiny ?:confused:

I guess Hearts will wait for due process to take its course.
If he is found guilty,i would expect Hearts to ban him from their ground.

bingo70
08-04-2019, 06:43 PM
Was just joking, or exaggerating. Jock is about the worst “racism” I’ve received here, and it was said lightheartedly.

The word Paki was once upon a time said by people lightheartedly, doesn’t mean it was right.

The only time I’ve heard the word Jock has been used to belittle a Scottish person. I don’t want people to be offended by things they’re not so if you’re not then great. I still don’t think it’s a nice word for Scottish people though.

FWIW I’m not comparing the word Jock to what that cretin was shouting at Marv. What he has had to hear there is completely unacceptable and is sickening to hear, the word Jock is just a bit of a pet hate of mine that winds me up.

Keith_M
08-04-2019, 06:45 PM
Seriously? I'm talking about being told to "F... Off back to England where I belong". Calling Scots Jocks and officers Ruperts was common in The MOD when I worked there and I never heard anyone take offence.


I'm sure there is prejudice among some Scots towards English people. Just as there's prejudice in the other direction.

You can't complain about one and excuse the other.

malcolm
08-04-2019, 06:58 PM
I know the debate has moved on a bit from this post but just want to say that I personally find the term Jock insulting.

It’s a term I associate as a derogatory name used by English people to describe Scottish people. You might not find it insulting and that’s fine, think you live in England so you’ve maybe got a different interpretation of the word but I don’t think a blanket statement of it not being an insult is correct.

So not one of jock tamson’s bairns? :wink: Jock like Taff is pretty much in itself inoffensive but like many words it can both be used by those who want to be offensive and can be perceived by those who want to be offended as offensive.

Term never bothered me but I do worry that there is a huge bandwagon surrounding being offended that too many leap upon to the detriment of picking out real bad behaviour like the Bartley incident. Offended means to be a bit annoyed or peeved by something, i.e not liking it. Part of life is not having everything the way you like so life is full of feeling aggrieved or even a bit insulted. Swallowing, where appropriate, a big bit of tough mammary instead of waving the ‘I’m offended’ flag would often make the world a better place:wink:

Bostonhibby
08-04-2019, 07:02 PM
I love Marvin. Just putting that out there.It's a pity the jellyfish concerned never got the chance to discuss it one to one with Marvin.

He gets to hearts on the pitch where he basically owns them so this vile wee creature hides on the terracing spouting cowardly stuff like this.

Looking forward to the prosecution and aftermath already.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Wakeyhibee
08-04-2019, 07:07 PM
The word Paki was once upon a time said by people lightheartedly, doesn’t mean it was right.

The only time I’ve heard the word Jock has been used to belittle a Scottish person. I don’t want people to be offended by things they’re not so if you’re not then great. I still don’t think it’s a nice word for Scottish people though.

FWIW I’m not comparing the word Jock to what that cretin was shouting at Marv. What he has had to hear there is completely unacceptable and is sickening to hear, the word Jock is just a bit of a pet hate of mine that winds me up.

Got parentage from both sides of the border. Lived in England most of my life and have had the sweaty sock bit a lot.

Whilst it is definitely derogatory, it does depend on how it's said and by whom.

I've had it as banter or jokingly and it's definitely the context in which it's said IMO.

bingo70
08-04-2019, 07:20 PM
Got parentage from both sides of the border. Lived in England most of my life and have had the sweaty sock bit a lot.

Whilst it is definitely derogatory, it does depend on how it's said and by whom.

I've had it as banter or jokingly and it's definitely the context in which it's said IMO.

I don’t want to drag this out too much as it’s not the same as what Marv got shouted at him however could that not be said to justify any racial insult?

The word Paki on its own could be described as an abbreviation so surely it’s all about the context as well? When old people describe going to the shops as going to ‘the Pakis’, it’s still wrong and I’m sure the majority (or a large amount) of my generation has corrected a grandparent for saying it.

Anyway, There’s probably no need for me to prolong this point, as I’ve said I’m not comparing that to what Marv had to listen to, I just wanted to pick up on the point that labelling a Scottish person as a Jock ‘isn’t an insult’ as being incorrect from my perspective.

Feel free to have the last word if you can be bothered replying.

AltheHibby
08-04-2019, 07:22 PM
Was just joking, or exaggerating. Jock is about the worst “racism” I’ve received here, and it was said lightheartedly.

Sorry. I missed the joke. Or is that the Jock?


Thanks for getting back to me. 👍

Wakeyhibee
08-04-2019, 07:43 PM
I don’t want to drag this out too much as it’s not the same as what Marv got shouted at him however could that not be said to justify any racial insult?

The word Paki on its own could be described as an abbreviation so surely it’s all about the context as well? When old people describe going to the shops as going to ‘the Pakis’, it’s still wrong and I’m sure the majority (or a large amount) of my generation has corrected a grandparent for saying it.

Anyway, There’s probably no need for me to prolong this point, as I’ve said I’m not comparing that to what Marv had to listen to, I just wanted to pick up on the point that labelling a Scottish person as a Jock ‘isn’t an insult’ as being incorrect from my perspective.

Feel free to have the last word if you can be bothered replying.

Agree with you totally on the "Paki" or anything like that, never heard that used other than in an insulting way.

Fair play don't wanna drag out either. Just saying the Jock thing has been used both jokingly (even if ignorantly) and maliciously that's all. Depends on how said.

mutley
08-04-2019, 07:59 PM
Some one has been lifted for racial abuse towards Marv

Police charge three people over Edinburgh derby disorder https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-47857901





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HUTCHYHIBBY
08-04-2019, 08:04 PM
Some one has been lifted for racial abuse towards Marv

Police charge three people over Edinburgh derby disorder https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-47857901





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Bobby Ewing never died on Dallas. 😉

basehibby
08-04-2019, 09:38 PM
It's kind of fitting and amusing that the sad-sac racist twat was so stupid he thought it would be a good idea to share his words on the internet for all to see. A kind of Darwinism in action here :greengrin

FilipinoHibs
08-04-2019, 10:01 PM
Aye, and likewise I’d like everyone down here who’s called me a jock jailed for hate crimes.

There is an ingrained racism which becomes the society norm. Living in London for 7 years my cockney friends would try and console me after a Scotland loss by saying it will be ok "Jock" or you "Scotch" will comeback. Only by pointing out those words are racist slurs did stop using them.

FilipinoHibs
08-04-2019, 10:03 PM
I don’t want to drag this out too much as it’s not the same as what Marv got shouted at him however could that not be said to justify any racial insult?

The word Paki on its own could be described as an abbreviation so surely it’s all about the context as well? When old people describe going to the shops as going to ‘the Pakis’, it’s still wrong and I’m sure the majority (or a large amount) of my generation has corrected a grandparent for saying it.

Anyway, There’s probably no need for me to prolong this point, as I’ve said I’m not comparing that to what Marv had to listen to, I just wanted to pick up on the point that labelling a Scottish person as a Jock ‘isn’t an insult’ as being incorrect from my perspective.

Feel free to have the last word if you can be bothered replying.

That is a good point a racist slur is not an issue by the perpetrators but is for the perpetrated. The coconut safari is a good example.

SRHibs
08-04-2019, 10:08 PM
Sorry. I missed the joke. Or is that the Jock?


Thanks for getting back to me. 👍

No problem, it wasn’t a very good one!

Since452
08-04-2019, 10:26 PM
They can't stand Marv. Was on the park 15 mins but owned them yet again. Resorting to racial abuse when a good few of their own players are black tells you they are intimidated by him. Low intelligence and fear makes people act out of character. Poor lambs.

Sir David Gray
08-04-2019, 10:30 PM
https://twitter.com/holyroodboxing/status/1115248041227956224?s=19


Disgraceful

That is disgusting.

Smartie
08-04-2019, 10:42 PM
I'm loving Marv's response.

basehibby
08-04-2019, 11:14 PM
There is an ingrained racism which becomes the society norm. Living in London for 7 years my cockney friends would try and console me after a Scotland loss by saying it will be ok "Jock" or you "Scotch" will comeback. Only by pointing out those words are racist slurs did stop using them.

Surely it's how a term is intended and not just how it is received which ultimately defines it as racism.

Good example - my dad was looking through an old school yearbook and came across a photo where there was a kid who was slightly dark skinned - of African ancestry - which was rare in those days in Scotland. "Ah there's old Sambo" my old man pipes up. "What?" says I - somewhat taken aback here in the 21st century. He goes on to explain that that was his nickname - he was widely liked and not being picked on - but his nickname was Sambo and he didn't seem to be bothered one bit about it at the time.

That was in the 50s of course and attitudes HAVE changed massively. I've been called "Jock" plenty times down south in a non-agressive friendly way and it never bothered me at all - and I suppose that's the way my dad's pal in his innocence saw it at the time. Of course the term "Sambo" has long since been identified as a patronising racist slur and you could be sure if it was used today that's exactly how it would be intended. I never saw "Jock" as implicitly racist though and so it didn't bother me at all. Different if someone called me a "Jock Basturd" or something - but the difference would more be in the tone of voice than in the word "Jock" being loaded - for me anyway.

Racism is more an attitude rather than just words - an intention to demean and cause offence which was absolutely dripping out of the video nasty which this thread is about. Using inappropriate words without intent to demean or cause offence is ill-educated - politically incorrect maybe - ignorant even - but not racist per se.

Basildon Hibs
08-04-2019, 11:46 PM
Surely it's how a term is intended and not just how it is received which ultimately defines it as racism.

Good example - my dad was looking through an old school yearbook and came across a photo where there was a kid who was slightly dark skinned - of African ancestry - which was rare in those days in Scotland. "Ah there's old Sambo" my old man pipes up. "What?" says I - somewhat taken aback here in the 21st century. He goes on to explain that that was his nickname - he was widely liked and not being picked on - but his nickname was Sambo and he didn't seem to be bothered one bit about it at the time.

That was in the 50s of course and attitudes HAVE changed massively. I've been called "Jock" plenty times down south in a non-agressive friendly way and it never bothered me at all - and I suppose that's the way my dad's pal in his innocence saw it at the time. Of course the term "Sambo" has long since been identified as a patronising racist slur and you could be sure if it was used today that's exactly how it would be intended. I never saw "Jock" as implicitly racist though and so it didn't bother me at all. Different if someone called me a "Jock Basturd" or something - but the difference would more be in the tone of voice than in the word "Jock" being loaded - for me anyway.

Racism is more an attitude rather than just words - an intention to demean and cause offence which was absolutely dripping out of the video nasty which this thread is about. Using inappropriate words without intent to demean or cause offence is ill-educated - politically incorrect maybe - ignorant even - but not racist per se.

That was exactly the same scenario when I was at Blackburn Academy, West Lothian in the late 70's....

Hermit Crab
09-04-2019, 07:02 AM
Back page of the record the day. I know we shouldn’t have to but both teams should walk out with those red cards (give racism the red card) before kick off at ER in the next derby as both clubs have been guilty of it recently.


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green day
09-04-2019, 07:07 AM
Back page of the record the day. I know we shouldn’t have to but both teams should walk out with those red cards (give racism the red card) before kick off at ER in the next derby as both clubs have been guilty of it recently.

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Not quite, a couple of fannies who support both clubs have been guilty of racism.

Hibs and Hearts can and will do what they can - but fannies will still be there with their neanderthal attitudes.

Since452
09-04-2019, 07:10 AM
Anyone who shouts racial abuse at the football or in any walk of life are just ****bags in my opinion.

andybev1
09-04-2019, 07:24 AM
I wonder if a section of the Hearts crowd have been emboldened since Tommy Robinson was meant to visit their hovel (what happened to that visit again?).

Also, it was reported last night on the news that the coconut was thrown from the hibs section - i have only heard tbis once from a bbc short news report that also had the news that the 'Bartley racist' had been arrested - anyone else know about the veracity of this report?

calumhibee1
09-04-2019, 07:36 AM
Popped over to Kickback to see what they were saying about the abuse. There’s a thread been started after the weekends games called “Racism in Football (NHR)”. Of course there’s no mention of the abuse of Bartley even though it’s in the papers.

Going to the effort of specifically saying it’s non hearts related. Talk about head in the sand.

CapitalGreen
09-04-2019, 07:48 AM
Popped over to Kickback to see what they were saying about the abuse. There’s a thread been started after the weekends games called “Racism in Football (NHR)”. Of course there’s no mention of the abuse of Bartley even though it’s in the papers.

Going to the effort of specifically saying it’s non hearts related. Talk about head in the sand.

They discuss it on the later pages of the coconut Derby thread.

calumhibee1
09-04-2019, 07:49 AM
They discuss it on the later pages of the coconut Derby thread.

Shh that doesn’t fit my agenda :greengrin

BILLYHIBS
09-04-2019, 08:07 AM
Watched the first initial tweet without audio and thought to myself someone is obviously giving Big Marv pelters and he is giving as good back

Watching it back in full audio I must admit to being deeply shocked and disturbed by the sheer callous vitriolic hatred exhibited by the perpetrator and it is very much doubtful going by the noise of the crowd if Marv would be able to hear the exact nature of the abuse being directed towards him

I am not easily shocked believe me

I am only pleased that this racist thug has been caught and hope that Hearts take the required and appropriate action against him

We need to remind ourselves that we had our own racist abuser in a recent Edinburgh Derby match

JimBHibees
09-04-2019, 08:12 AM
Watched the first initial tweet without audio and thought to myself someone is obviously giving Big Marv pelters and he is giving as good back

Watching it back in full audio I must admit to being deeply shocked and disturbed by the sheer veracity and hatred by the perpetrator and it is very much doubtful going by the noise of the crowd if Marv would be able to hear the exact nature of the abuse being directed towards him

I am not easily shocked believe me

I am only pleased that this racist thug has been caught and hope that Hearts take the required and appropriate action against him

We need to remind ourselves that we had our own racist abuser in a recent Edinburgh Derby match

We did and I know this is complete whataboutery however remember watching the Old firm game earlier in the day before the last derby at ER and near the end of the coverage the camera zooms in on an older guy clearly mouthing vile sectarian lyrics, doing exactly what the Hibs fan did later in the day with racist words who was quite rightly charged. Both are wrong, one was highlighted and person charged. Why?

CallumLaidlaw
09-04-2019, 08:13 AM
My wife was working for St. Andrews at the weekend and unfortunately for her she was stationed next to section N. She text me before the game to say she’d been told she was in “animal corner”. I knew where she meant straight away. Also, before the Bartley stuff came out she said she was shocked by the amount of racism being shouted from that corner of the stadium. She said it wasn’t one or two, it was a large portion of that section - and was throughout the whole game. Surely wouldn’t take much to take action against folk in that section of hearts wanted to.


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JimBHibees
09-04-2019, 08:16 AM
My wife was working for St. Andrews at the weekend and unfortunately for her she was stationed next to section N. She text me before the game to say she’d been told she was in “animal corner”. I knew where she meant straight away. Also, before the Bartley stuff came out she said she was shocked by the amount of racism being shouted from that corner of the stadium. She said it wasn’t one or two, it was a large portion of that section - and was throughout the whole game. Surely wouldn’t take much to take action against folk in that section of hearts wanted to.


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Especially given they have been there for years. Is that not the area police normally congregate near to? Would take next to nothing to sort that out, no idea why that hasnt happened. Area should be shut.

CallumLaidlaw
09-04-2019, 08:16 AM
Especially given they have been there for years. Is that not the area police normally congregate near to? Would take next to nothing to sort that out, no idea why that hasnt happened. Area should be shut.

There were certainly a couple of coppers next to her throughout the game.


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BILLYHIBS
09-04-2019, 08:20 AM
We did and I know this is complete whataboutery however remember watching the Old firm game earlier in the day before the last derby at ER and near the end of the coverage the camera zooms in on an older guy clearly mouthing vile sectarian lyrics, doing exactly what the Hibs fan did later in the day with racist words who was quite rightly charged. Both are wrong, one was highlighted and person charged. Why?

The $64000 question

Sectarianism in Scotland is racism

It is a hate crime

Both should have been arrested

Onceinawhile
09-04-2019, 08:22 AM
There were certainly a couple of coppers next to her throughout the game.


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She should write to hearts and let them know (I don't doubt they already know, but if it's coming from someone who is a third party then it should be more impactful).

I don't know if anyone has seen the bbc's gossip page, but they have it down as "Hibernian midfielder Marvin Bartley claimed he was targeted for "ignorant" verbal and online abuse during Saturday's win over Hearts at Tynecastle, with the home club and police launching an investigation and the Scottish Professional Football League also condemning the incidents"

Claimed? there's bloody video evidence of it FFS! He hasn't claimed he was abused, he's responded to the abuse! Ridiculous from the BBC and the sun.

Hakim Sar
09-04-2019, 08:25 AM
I really like and respect Marvin Bartley. Plays his position well and seems to "get" what it means to play for us. More importantly he comes across as a gentleman and a nice guy and really it's a shame that he has had to experience this.

bingo70
09-04-2019, 08:26 AM
She should write to hearts and let them know (I don't doubt they already know, but if it's coming from someone who is a third party then it should be more impactful).

I don't know if anyone has seen the bbc's gossip page, but they have it down as "Hibernian midfielder Marvin Bartley claimed he was targeted for "ignorant" verbal and online abuse during Saturday's win over Hearts at Tynecastle, with the home club and police launching an investigation and the Scottish Professional Football League also condemning the incidents"

Claimed? there's bloody video evidence of it FFS! He hasn't claimed he was abused, he's responded to the abuse! Ridiculous from the BBC and the sun.

Yeah I saw that too and thought it was very poor.

I know they need to be careful with regards to the person being innocent until proven guilty however I still don’t think the word ‘claimed’ was necessary there at all.

where'stheslope
09-04-2019, 10:31 AM
Yeah I saw that too and thought it was very poor.

I know they need to be careful with regards to the person being innocent until proven guilty however I still don’t think the word ‘claimed’ was necessary there at all.
You answered your own question there, if you don't use "claimed" the defence lawyer would say he has already been convicted by the press and media!!
That outcome the trial could be thrown out!

bingo70
09-04-2019, 10:49 AM
You answered your own question there, if you don't use "claimed" the defence lawyer would say he has already been convicted by the press and media!!
That outcome the trial could be thrown out!

I’m not sure of the technicalities of it and you’re probably right but could it not be confirmed he was racially abused without the finger being pointed at any suspect in particular?

If the papers said ‘mr moron racially abused Marvin Bartley’, the paper could get on bother but thats different from saying Bartley claims he was racially abused when it’s clear he was.

FilipinoHibs
09-04-2019, 10:57 AM
Especially given they have been there for years. Is that not the area police normally congregate near to? Would take next to nothing to sort that out, no idea why that hasnt happened. Area should be shut.

Yes being going on for 20 plus years. I once complained to police and stewards about the sectarian abuse coming from that section during a derby but was completely ignored. Easy for Hearts to do something about it but seem completely unwilling.

FilipinoHibs
09-04-2019, 11:05 AM
Surely it's how a term is intended and not just how it is received which ultimately defines it as racism.

Good example - my dad was looking through an old school yearbook and came across a photo where there was a kid who was slightly dark skinned - of African ancestry - which was rare in those days in Scotland. "Ah there's old Sambo" my old man pipes up. "What?" says I - somewhat taken aback here in the 21st century. He goes on to explain that that was his nickname - he was widely liked and not being picked on - but his nickname was Sambo and he didn't seem to be bothered one bit about it at the time.

That was in the 50s of course and attitudes HAVE changed massively. I've been called "Jock" plenty times down south in a non-agressive friendly way and it never bothered me at all - and I suppose that's the way my dad's pal in his innocence saw it at the time. Of course the term "Sambo" has long since been identified as a patronising racist slur and you could be sure if it was used today that's exactly how it would be intended. I never saw "Jock" as implicitly racist though and so it didn't bother me at all. Different if someone called me a "Jock Basturd" or something - but the difference would more be in the tone of voice than in the word "Jock" being loaded - for me anyway.

Racism is more an attitude rather than just words - an intention to demean and cause offence which was absolutely dripping out of the video nasty which this thread is about. Using inappropriate words without intent to demean or cause offence is ill-educated - politically incorrect maybe - ignorant even - but not racist per se.

Racists words become assimilated in everyday language by the perpetrators and appear to be normal everyday language. But victims know their deep hurtful meaning. What ever way you say a racist word it is still racist. Come to terms with that and using will cease. Put your feet in the shoes of the victim. Lift your consciousness about racism and make this a better world. And let's all stop making pathetic excuses for our racism. Just be big enough to cut it out.

Smartie
09-04-2019, 11:38 AM
There were certainly a couple of coppers next to her throughout the game.


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The clubs couldn't care less what fans think. We know what to expect and we continually pitch up and pay more money for more of it.

They take the thoughts of others a bit more seriously though. Your other half was at her work - in my opinion it is very different to expect someone to put up with witnessing widespread racist abuse at their work, even if it isn't directed at them.

If it bothered her enough, she should speak to Hearts. It's not acceptable.

They'd soon be interested if the person doing her job at the next Derby decided to take it further.

CRAZYHIBBY
09-04-2019, 11:50 AM
Let's all get behind him and show our support for this club legend