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Hibeesmad
02-04-2019, 09:06 PM
The battle for top four down south is going right down to the wire.

As it stands:

3rd Arsenal P31 63PTS
4th Spurs P31 61PTS
5th Man Utd P32 61PTS
6th Chelsea P31 60PTS

Remaining fixtures are as follow.

Arsenal- Spurs-

Everton (A) Palace (H)
Watford (A) Huddersfield (H)
Palace (H) Man City (A)
Wolves (A) Brighton (H)
Leicester (A) West Ham (H)
Brighton (H) Bournemouth (A)
Burnley (A) Everton (H)


Man Utd- Chelsea-

West Ham (H) Brighton (H)
Everton (A) West Ham (H)
Man City (H) Liverpool (A)
Chelsea (H) Burnley (H)
Huddersfield (A) Man Utd (A)
Cardiff (H) Watford (H)
Leicester (A)


Based on those fixtures I fancy Spurs to get 3rd and Arsenal to get 4th.

Sir David Gray
02-04-2019, 09:14 PM
A couple of weeks ago Manchester Utd looked certainties to get top 4 but they've now lost 3 of their last 4 matches and it's now not looking so good for them.

They also have Manchester City and Chelsea coming up soon.

Arsenal look like they're in superb form at the right time and I can't see past them for 3rd place. It's a toss up between Tottenham, Manchester Utd and Chelsea for 4th place. If I had to choose I would probably say Tottenham.

Hibeesmad
02-04-2019, 09:19 PM
A couple of weeks ago Manchester Utd looked certainties to get top 4 but they've now lost 3 of their last 4 matches and it's now not looking so good for them.

They also have Manchester City and Chelsea coming up soon.

Arsenal look like they're in superb form at the right time and I can't see past them for 3rd place. It's a toss up between Tottenham, Manchester Utd and Chelsea for 4th place. If I had to choose I would probably say Tottenham.

I think it will be between Arsenal and Spurs. But with Spurs having 5 home matches and only 2 away games I think it could sway towards them.

Arsenal have the opposite with 2 home games and 5 away games. The away games against Everton, Watford, Wolves, Leicester and Burnley. I would be surprised if they managed to accumulate more points than Spurs in their respective home matches at their new stadium.

Sir David Gray
02-04-2019, 09:23 PM
I think it will be between Arsenal and Spurs. But with Spurs having 5 home matches and only 2 away games I think it could sway towards them.

Arsenal have the opposite with 2 home games and 5 away games. The away games against Everton, Watford, Wolves, Leicester and Burnley. I would be surprised if they managed to accumulate more points than Spurs in their respective home matches at their new stadium.

All depends on how quickly Tottenham take to their new surroundings.

Hibeesmad
02-04-2019, 09:25 PM
All depends on how quickly Tottenham take to their new surroundings.

I think tomorrow will be the biggest one to get out the way, win that and it will regain a lot of confidence and good feeling factor around the club.

Arsenal have played 6 EPL away games since boxing day taking only 2 points from a possible 18. That is not including losing to BATE and Rennes along the way.

In fact, they haven't won an away game in the league since 25th November.

Danderhall Hibs
02-04-2019, 09:46 PM
A couple of weeks ago Manchester Utd looked certainties to get top 4 but they've now lost 3 of their last 4 matches and it's now not looking so good for them.

They also have Manchester City and Chelsea coming up soon.

Arsenal look like they're in superb form at the right time and I can't see past them for 3rd place. It's a toss up between Tottenham, Manchester Utd and Chelsea for 4th place. If I had to choose I would probably say Tottenham.

And they’ve bowed to media (and fan?) pressure to appoint Ole - not been great since that. :dunno:

Zazu62
02-04-2019, 10:00 PM
Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?

Hibeesmad
02-04-2019, 10:05 PM
Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?

As a football fan watching some of the best teams in the world compete to play in the Champions League next season I find it exciting. But that's me.

Jdawg
02-04-2019, 11:06 PM
Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?

Correct. It’s an absolute joke. A made up pile of pish due to the champions league.

jgl07
02-04-2019, 11:23 PM
Money talks and a top four place guarantees vast sums of money.

At times it appeared that Arsenal, under Wenger, were deliberatively aiming to finish between second and third. Spend enough to qualify for the Group Stages of the CL but not sufficient to have a serious prospect of winning the PL. Going for that offered a better return on investment.

Spurs seem to be following the same pattern recently.

All very sad.

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2019, 07:08 AM
Correct. It’s an absolute joke. A made up pile of pish due to the champions league.Don't watch it then.


Money talks and a top four place guarantees vast sums of money.

At times it appeared that Arsenal, under Wenger, were deliberatively aiming to finish between second and third. Spend enough to qualify for the Group Stages of the CL but not sufficient to have a serious prospect of winning the PL. Going for that offered a better return on investment.

Spurs seem to be following the same pattern recently.

All very sad.Those clubs both spent hundreds of millions on new stadiums, that is why they aren't/didn't spend it on players.


Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?Was exciting as a Hibs fan when we were doing it last year.

Speedy
03-04-2019, 07:15 AM
Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?

We've got a huge game tonight in our own battle for top 4.

hibsbollah
03-04-2019, 07:19 AM
Money talks and a top four place guarantees vast sums of money.

At times it appeared that Arsenal, under Wenger, were deliberatively aiming to finish between second and third. Spend enough to qualify for the Group Stages of the CL but not sufficient to have a serious prospect of winning the PL. Going for that offered a better return on investment.

Spurs seem to be following the same pattern recently.

All very sad.

:agree: All those consecutive CL qualifications and the odd cup win still represent underachievement for Arsenal relative to their income.

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2019, 07:31 AM
:agree: All those consecutive CL qualifications and the odd cup win still represent underachievement for Arsenal relative to their income.

Not while building a stadium and replacing the ageing invincible team. The underachievement came from 2013 onwards when the stadium had been payed off.

Speedy
03-04-2019, 07:36 AM
Not while building a stadium and replacing the ageing invincible team. The underachievement came from 2013 onwards when the stadium had been payed off.

They've won the FA cup 3 out of the last 5 years. They're not doing that bad.

Scouse Hibee
03-04-2019, 07:48 AM
Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?

It is if your a fan of the EPL.

hibsbollah
03-04-2019, 07:50 AM
Not while building a stadium and replacing the ageing invincible team. The underachievement came from 2013 onwards when the stadium had been payed off.

Thats a narrative designed by Wenger to excuse the crap purchases that characterized his later years. It shouldn't take 10 years to replace a team, especially when you're raking in tens of millions every year from European qualification.

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2019, 08:06 AM
Thats a narrative designed by Wenger to excuse the crap purchases that characterized his later years. It shouldn't take 10 years to replace a team, especially when you're raking in tens of millions every year from European qualification.

What crap purchases did he made between 2006-2013? Signed some absolutely class like Koscielny, Nasri, hleb, Sagna, Flamini, Walcott, Eduardo and many more for pennies. Gervinho maybe the only big crap signing, he was still a good player, just didn't fit.

It's not a narrative, it's a fact that Arsenal couldn't go spending millions and had to get rid of players. Wenger done a great job and developed Fabregas, Wilshere, Ramsey etc. 2015 summer was his real error, only signing Cech and finishing 2nd to Leicester.

.Sean.
03-04-2019, 08:18 AM
I find it very sad that finishjng 3rd or 4th on the league is viewed more successful than winning the FA Cup.

hibsbollah
03-04-2019, 08:27 AM
What crap purchases did he made


Take your pick.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/arsenals-15-worst-signings-of-all-time/qvvzsul961qs1l3ergxjqibao

Arse shavings, Diaby, Chamakh, Denilson, Squillaci, Gervinho all jump out at me.

Hibbyradge
03-04-2019, 09:04 AM
Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?

Aren't we trying to do the same thing?

Hibbyradge
03-04-2019, 09:55 AM
I find it very sad that finishjng 3rd or 4th on the league is viewed more successful than winning the FA Cup.

Sad in a football sense it may be, but it's completely understandable and, frankly, it's a justified approach financially.

I'm sure you know that's the case, but the numbers involved are breathtaking.

The 2019 FA Cup winner will have earned a total of £6.8m in prize money.

The CL winner will get close to €100m.

Just qualifying for the group stages of the CL is worth €15.25m then €2.7m for a win and €900000 for a draw.

The total prize money for the CL is €2.04 billion. The FA Cup prize fund this year has been doubled to about £14 million (I think that's the correct figure).

And that's just the prize money. There's extra TV and sponsorship deals and the added worldwide exposure and status that qualification for the CL brings.

Here's a couple of interesting articles. The first is a piece about why the FA Cup has lost its sparkle and the second is the official breakdown of the CL prize fund.

http://financialfootballnews.com/category/fa-cup/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/amp/newsid=2562033.html

Hibeesmad
03-04-2019, 10:01 AM
Sad in a football sense it may be, but it's completely understandable and, frankly, it's a justified approach financially.

I'm sure you know that's the case, but the numbers involved are breathtaking.

The 2019 FA Cup winner will have earned a total of £6.8m in prize money.

The CL winner will get close to €100m.

Just qualifying for the group stages of the CL is worth €15.25m then €2.7m for a win and €900000 for a draw.

The total prize money for the CL is €2.04 billion. The FA Cup prize fund this year has been doubled to about £14 million (I think that's the correct figure).

And that's just the prize money. There's extra TV and sponsorship deals and the added worldwide exposure and status that qualification for the CL brings.

Here's a couple of interesting articles. The first is a piece about why the FA Cup has lost its sparkle and the second is the official breakdown of the CL prize fund.

http://financialfootballnews.com/category/fa-cup/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/amp/newsid=2562033.html

If you asked season ticket holders of every team in the EPL whether they would prefer to win the FA Cup or qualify for the Champions League I think that the majority of each team would opt for the Champions League.

Playing in that competition against some of the best teams in the world seems to be more attractive than winning a trophy these days.

Steve20
03-04-2019, 10:20 AM
Spurs and Man Utd will get 3rd and 4th, IMO. Arsenal have the type of away games that they tend to drop points in coming up. And just think Spurs and Man Utd are better teams too.

Hibbyradge
03-04-2019, 10:23 AM
If you asked season ticket holders of every team in the EPL whether they would prefer to win the FA Cup or qualify for the Champions League I think that the majority of each team would opt for the Champions League.

Playing in that competition against some of the best teams in the world seems to be more attractive than winning a trophy these days.

I think you're probably right.

Now that we've got the Scottish Cup monkey off our back, I imagine that a lot, if not the majority, of Hibs fans would feel the same way.

Obviously, we'd currently need to win the league to do so therefore that's a given, but I mean if a qualification spot was also available for second place,

cleanyman
03-04-2019, 11:16 AM
Top 4 zzzzzz

The title race is what it's all about because that's what really matters

Hibbyradge
03-04-2019, 11:22 AM
Top 4 zzzzzz

The title race is what it's all about because that's what really matters

Should Hibs give up trying for 4th? :dunno:

Diclonius
03-04-2019, 11:25 AM
I think you're probably right.

Now that we've got the Scottish Cup monkey off our back, I imagine that a lot, if not the majority, of Hibs fans would feel the same way.

Obviously, we'd currently need to win the league to do so therefore that's a given, but I mean if a qualification spot was also available for second place,

I'd rather win the League Cup than get humped home and away by a Rennes or Palermo or whatever in qualifying round 1 of 64131843464818181646.

Sir David Gray
03-04-2019, 11:29 AM
I think you're probably right.

Now that we've got the Scottish Cup monkey off our back, I imagine that a lot, if not the majority, of Hibs fans would feel the same way.

Obviously, we'd currently need to win the league to do so therefore that's a given, but I mean if a qualification spot was also available for second place,

I would rather win the Scottish Cup again than see us qualify for the Champions League by finishing 4th in the league.

I'd take the league title over the cup but not 4th.

Danderhall Hibs
03-04-2019, 11:59 AM
Should Hibs give up trying for 4th? :dunno:

Obviously not but they definitely shouldn’t play a weakened team in the cup in an attempt to finish 4th either.

Lago
03-04-2019, 12:01 PM
All depends on how quickly Tottenham take to their new surroundings.
They're would be something wrong if they don't take to they're new stadium, magnificent, takes the game down South to an other level.

Since452
03-04-2019, 12:04 PM
I wonder if English clubs fans forums have a thread about the top 4 battle in the Scottish Premiership?

Hibbyradge
03-04-2019, 12:09 PM
I'd rather win the League Cup than get humped home and away by a Rennes or Palermo or whatever in qualifying round 1 of 64131843464818181646.

I doubt any English fans would rather prefer the qualifying stages of the CL to winning the FA Cup either.

The comparison I was trying to make was with the top 4 in the EPL who go directly into the groups.

danhibees1875
03-04-2019, 12:11 PM
I doubt any English fans would rather prefer the qualifying stages of the CL to winning the FA Cup either.

The comparison I was trying to make was with the top 4 in the EPL who go directly into the groups.

I think I'd probably take Europa group stages over a league cup win if there was an either or for next season.

Hibbyradge
03-04-2019, 12:13 PM
Obviously not but they definitely shouldn’t play a weakened team in the cup in an attempt to finish 4th either.

Even if we would go directly into the group stage? :dunno:

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2019, 12:25 PM
Take your pick.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/arsenals-15-worst-signings-of-all-time/qvvzsul961qs1l3ergxjqibao

Arse shavings, Diaby, Chamakh, Denilson, Squillaci, Gervinho all jump out at me.Arshavin scored many important goals, well liked among fans

Others cost pennies or were free. Diaby a great talent ruined by injury. Already mentioned gervinho. You've listed 6 players over a 7/8 year period, 2 kids, 1 free transfer and 2 big signings, one was poor and a central defender for cover.

"Years of crap purchases" indeed. Signed far far more good than bad in that time and developed many players from nothing.

660
03-04-2019, 12:44 PM
The "race for the top 4" is almost as tedious and unexciting as the CL itself.

GreenNWhiteArmy
03-04-2019, 12:48 PM
It's a tough one.

Winning either cup would be amazing. We'd have enjoyed a great run culminating in SOL at Hampden followed by a parade down leith the next day and an all round **** hot weekend

Finishing 3rd and getting a run at Europa League, reaching the group stages and gaining around 7M in prize money would give the club a massive boost.

That's no different to clubs down south albeit the monetary values are multiplied by at least ten.

Fans will always say they want the trophies - but if we were given 7M to bolster our squad would we still see it that way?

Board rooms deal in pounds unfortunately so would go for the bigger win every time

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2019, 12:54 PM
The "race for the top 4" is almost as tedious and unexciting as the CL itself.

Didn't catch the Ajax, Juventus, Liverpool or United ties in the last round then? All brilliant ties. Nothing boring about it. Best teams with best players.

Hibbyradge
03-04-2019, 01:01 PM
Arshavin scored many important goals, well liked among fans

Others cost pennies or were free. Diaby a great talent ruined by injury. Already mentioned gervinho. You've listed 6 players over a 7/8 year period, 2 kids, 1 free transfer and 2 big signings, one was poor and a central defender for cover.

"Years of crap purchases" indeed. Signed far far more good than bad in that time and developed many players from nothing.

Arsene Wenger signed a winger from Juventus and asked him to play as a striker.

His name was Thierry Henry.

End of discussion. 😊

hibsbollah
03-04-2019, 01:59 PM
Arshavin scored many important goals, well liked among fans

Others cost pennies or were free. Diaby a great talent ruined by injury. Already mentioned gervinho. You've listed 6 players over a 7/8 year period, 2 kids, 1 free transfer and 2 big signings, one was poor and a central defender for cover.

"Years of crap purchases" indeed. Signed far far more good than bad in that time and developed many players from nothing.

Arshavin was widely liked by fans? I have two relatives who have been season ticket holders for years, and they never liked him. Look at his goals assist record, has to be classed as a failure. Despite looking great for Zenith in that UEFA cup run. Good article here

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/21/andrey-arshavin-arsenal-enigma-ends-career-zenit

I've just reread your previous post. You're using Alexander Hleb as an example of a great signing that's going to make Arsenal challenge for the top honours? Are you being serious?! Were Sagna, Hleb, Flamini ever going to
win Arsenal the champions League? I think you're doing a good job of making the guys argument for him. Arsenal built a team, consistently, to qualify for the CL positions, never to actually win top honours. I can't believe you're arguing otherwise.

Goal magazine has an article dedicated to Wenger's worst ever signings, there are 20 of them. Read the link. Look at the players he bought. He's widely mocked for failing to rebuild for over ten years. Massive budget but fails to get past the round of 16 for what is it,seven consecutive years in the CL?

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2019, 02:18 PM
Arshavin was widely liked by fans? I have two relatives who have been season ticket holders for years, and they never liked him. Look at his goals assist record, has to be classed as a failure. Despite looking great for Zenith in that UEFA cup run. Good article here

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/21/andrey-arshavin-arsenal-enigma-ends-career-zenit

I've just reread your previous post. You're using Alexander Hleb as an example of a great signing that's going to make Arsenal challenge for the top honours? Are you being serious?! Were Sagna, Hleb, Flamini ever going to
win Arsenal the champions League? I think you're doing a good job of making the guys argument for him. Arsenal built a team, consistently, to qualify for the CL positions, never to actually win top honours. I can't believe you're arguing otherwise.

Goal magazine has an article dedicated to Wenger's worst ever signings, there are 20 of them. Read the link. Look at the players he bought. He's widely mocked for failing to rebuild for over ten years. Massive budget but fails to get past the round of 16 for what is it,seven consecutive years in the CL?
Arshavin had a goal every 4 games as a winger? How is that a massive failure. He scored so many big goals in big games.

Arsenal couldn't go and challenge for the league or champions League. They didn't have a massive budget (bizarre lie you keep saying). The season arsenal signed hleb they reached the champions League final. Flamini and hleb played every game in that run, knocking out Juventus and Real Madrid. They moved on to AC Milan and Barcelona. 2 great players for Arsenal. Those are facts. Not your opinion on them, actual facts.
Sagna is thought of by many Arsenal fans as one of their best right backs ever and many think he would get into the invincible team.


Wenger was a big success in that time, bizarre to argue otherwise. It was after that, when he had money for quality like Ozil and Sanchez, that he struggled.
He's widely mocked by disrespectful idiots. A genius of football who created an unbelievable team.

Danderhall Hibs
03-04-2019, 02:31 PM
Even if we would go directly into the group stage? :dunno:

As a one off the group stages would be great after the novelty though it’s all about money not the football.

supermcginn
03-04-2019, 03:05 PM
The "race for the top 4" is almost as tedious and unexciting as the CL itself.

The champions league this year has been incredible. Best tournament in the world.

Here’s Lucy!
03-04-2019, 03:45 PM
Is this meant to be exciting? Trying to finish in the top 4?

For me, yes.

For me, Man Utd. getting 4th would be even more exciting.

Cheer up!! :wink:

hibsbollah
03-04-2019, 03:49 PM
Arshavin had a goal every 4 games as a winger? How is that a massive failure. He scored so many big goals in big games.

Arsenal couldn't go and challenge for the league or champions League. They didn't have a massive budget (bizarre lie you keep saying). The season arsenal signed hleb they reached the champions League final. Flamini and hleb played every game in that run, knocking out Juventus and Real Madrid. They moved on to AC Milan and Barcelona. 2 great players for Arsenal. Those are facts. Not your opinion on them, actual facts.
Sagna is thought of by many Arsenal fans as one of their best right backs ever and many think he would get into the invincible team.


Wenger was a big success in that time, bizarre to argue otherwise. It was after that, when he had money for quality like Ozil and Sanchez, that he struggled.
He's widely mocked by disrespectful idiots. A genius of football who created an unbelievable team.

None of this changes the original point, that none of these players were ever going to win Arsenal a major trophy and break through to the next level. Wenger had years to rebuild after the the invincibles and failed to do so. They're the facts.

Lago
03-04-2019, 04:37 PM
The "race for the top 4" is almost as tedious and unexciting as the CL itself.

Not for me it's not, both completions have been superb this season.:agree:

Here’s Lucy!
03-04-2019, 04:41 PM
Not for me it's not, both completions have been superb this season.:agree:

:thumbsup:

You just can't please some folk!

MWHIBBIES
03-04-2019, 04:44 PM
None of this changes the original point, that none of these players were ever going to win Arsenal a major trophy and break through to the next level. Wenger had years to rebuild after the the invincibles and failed to do so. They're the facts.

You do realize arsenal spent 500 million on a stadium in the middle of this? They didn't just gave a man city budget to spent on whatever they wanted?

Arsenal done really quite well. They were 15 minutes away from winning the champions League and 4 points away from the league in 08 so saying it's a fact that they were never going to win it is just untrue.