Trump Mueller investigation

[Slavers]

Why did the democrats and some posters here get it so wildly wrong?

Trump has been cleared of any wrong doing but many on .net the posters were certain that Trump would be arrested over the reports findings?

So Why did they get it so wrong and why were they so convinced of Trumps guilt? There has been no collusion with Russia by Trump.

[matty_f]

Probably because most right minded people think Trump is a ****.

[Slavers]

Probably because most right minded people think Trump is a ****.

Fair enough but surely that's not enough to want him convicted of something he didn't do?

Where did the certainty of guilt come from?

[lapsedhibee]

Fair enough but surely that's not enough to want him convicted of something he didn't do?

Where did the certainty of guilt come from?

Don't know about certainty, but suspicion of wrongdoing is fairly understandable given the number of his associates already convicted and the fact that he's a congenital liar.

The first thing he did after the findings came out was lie about what the findings were.

[CropleyWasGod]

Fair enough but surely that's not enough to want him convicted of something he didn't do?

Where did the certainty of guilt come from?

According to the summary of the report, he wasn't exonerated.

[Smartie]

Fair enough but surely that's not enough to want him convicted of something he didn't do?

Where did the certainty of guilt come from?

I always thought the idea of him colluding with the Russians was a bit far fetched.

Trump's way of doing business has always been aggressive and bullying. Politics doesn't really allow you to behave the way you might wish to in other circles (see comments re grabbing women by the pussy etc).

I'm amazed he hasn't managed to step into one of the many traps that have been laid for him, so the outcome has been a surprise to me - not because I think he was ever a traitor but because he's a belligerent fool with no self-awareness whatsoever whose ruthlessness would likely see him come a cropper at some point.

He'll get himself into bother one day.

And as has been mentioned above - he wasn't exactly exonerated.

I suspect this will be viewed differently in 50 years time. Trump is probably going to have to be tolerated until he can exit at the earliest opportunity. He is probably above the law, as holding him to account for anything will bring about a big reaction from the lunatic fringe who appear to like him and his nonsense and are capable of scary things.

[greenlex]

Has the report been published in full?

[Callum_62]

Has the report been published in full?

Mcconnell apparently putting a stop that

I mean obviously when a investigation finds you have done absolutely nothing wrong, every sane person would then go to lengths to stop the full report being published

Just like the tax returns [emoji102]


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[Mibbes Aye]

Posted a while back that Trump’s biggest threat wasn’t maybe from Mueller but from the investigation by the Southern District of New York District Attorney’s Office, who are looking at illegality around use of campaign funds.

The SDNY is as good as it gets in US prosecutorial circles and has handled huge cases, from John Gotti and the Mafia super-trials through to the various and massive Wall Street prosecutions in the 90s, plus the original WTC bombing and I think some elements of post-9/11, amongst a myriad of others.

Albeit as someone well removed from it all and reliant on reportage for my opinion, it appears there is far more of a smoking gun when it comes to illegal misuse of campaign donations.

[Tobias Funke]

Why did the democrats and some posters here get it so wildly wrong?

Trump has been cleared of any wrong doing but many on .net the posters were certain that Trump would be arrested over the reports findings?

So Why did they get it so wrong and why were they so convinced of Trumps guilt? There has been no collusion with Russia by Trump.

How could anyone be certain when they had absolutely no idea of the inner workings of the investigation? Not to worry though, he’s still up to his nuts in all other sorts of investigations, you do realise he is named as “Individual One” in an indictment where he orchestrated campaign finance fraud, the other perpetrator already due to serve jail time.

Or is that all just “fake news” as your nutjob lot call it?

[DetroitHibs]

The media will have you believing anything they want. Remember when Hillary was so far ahead in the polls they kept reporting about? I didn’t buy it and made a right few quid betting on Trump to win. One look at there rallies and speeches told me Trump would win. Basically the worst dirt they can find on him, is him saying. “Grab them by the pussys”

[bobbyhibs1983]

According to the summary of the report, he wasn't exonerated.

Being a simply minded guy IMO the whole russia investigation thing is pretty simple he /his team/inner circle are either guilty or not guilty..has trump,his team,his inner circle been found guilty of collusion with russia? as i said its either guilty or not guilty which i believe was the *ONLY* thing this ivestigation was looking for.

its like if anyone on hibs.net was charged with a crime...lets say fraud. now if the person is found not guilty but the proscuter comes out and says oh but he was speeding last year and oh they told someone to F off and what not.

as other posters have mentioned about other inverigations, i think they has to be investagated on there own merits but as for the russia investagation IMo he s been found not guilty.

[CapitalGreen]

Being a simply minded guy IMO the whole russia investigation thing is pretty simple he /his team/inner circle are either guilty or not guilty..has trump,his team,his inner circle been found guilty of collusion with russia? as i said its either guilty or not guilty which i believe was the *ONLY* thing this ivestigation was looking for.

its like if anyone on hibs.net was charged with a crime...lets say fraud. now if the person is found not guilty but the proscuter comes out and says oh but he was speeding last year and oh they told someone to F off and what not.

as other posters have mentioned about other inverigations, i think they has to be investagated on there own merits but as for the russia investagation IMo he s been found not guilty.

Not proven as opposed to not guilty.

[bobbyhibs1983]

Not proven as opposed to not guilty.

ah ok fair enough!

as i said im pretty simple minded at things, i often feel things are either one way or another way!

[lapsedhibee]

Not proven as opposed to not guilty.

No evidence of collusion with Russia - so, innocent of that charge.

On the obstruction of justice, neither exonerated nor not exonerated. :wink:

[Smartie]

No evidence of collusion with Russia - so, innocent of that charge.

On the obstruction of justice, neither exonerated nor not exonerated. :wink:

Although..........

Imagine he was not colluding with Russia politically, but prior to becoming president he'd had many business meetings with a view to doing business in Russia. Some of the people he met were dodgy (as you probably have to in order to do business with Russia), some above board, some who have political interests.

He knows it doesn't look good though, so covers up certain meetings with certain people.

He's innocent of any type of collusion but up to his neck in dishonestly so chooses to mislead the inquiry.

Not too far fetched?

[JeMeSouviens]

The media will have you believing anything they want. Remember when Hillary was so far ahead in the polls they kept reporting about? I didn’t buy it and made a right few quid betting on Trump to win. One look at there rallies and speeches told me Trump would win. Basically the worst dirt they can find on him, is him saying. “Grab them by the pussys”

HC “won” the vote by nearly 3M votes, over 2% of the electorate. So the polls were correct in that sense.

[hibsbollah]

HC “won” the vote by nearly 3M votes, over 2% of the electorate. So the polls were correct in that sense.

:agree: Trump won because he had better data and analytics. And if those elements didn't click into place he had better lawyers too.

[bobbyhibs1983]

HC “won” the vote by nearly 3M votes, over 2% of the electorate. So the polls were correct in that sense.

As for winning the number of votes i do believe you are correct (i do recall HC winning more votes than DT so i assume your number is right)
Though the yanks have a weird system its NOT about the number of votes you get its the electoral votes you .I think to become president you had to get something like 275(or there abouts?)
I think DT and HC both knew this before hand so it is what it is.
i think whats annoying with most of the media coverage was they assumed HC would win by like 20 miles!!!

Smartie
in regards your post you do make sense i feel in regard mentioning some *dodgy people* I do think doing business with dodgy business is stupid think and i can understand if he did he'd wanna cover it up.
PM

[Jack Hackett]

Why did the democrats and some posters here get it so wildly wrong?

Trump has been cleared of any wrong doing but many on .net the posters were certain that Trump would be arrested over the reports findings?

So Why did they get it so wrong and why were they so convinced of Trumps guilt? There has been no collusion with Russia by Trump.

Not looking quite so wildly wrong now that the (redacted) report has been digested by other than the highly selective Attorney General. I fully expect it to look even worse when the full(unredacted), subpoenaed report reaches congress. Obstruction of justice looks like a stick-on, and Trumps reaction to the report over the last couple of days has been a complete volte-face... from "Total Exoneration"... to "Total BS"

[Bristolhibby]

Hillary’s emails turning up via Wikileaks was a wonderful coincidence for the Trump campaign. Who’d have thunk it.

Also, love how the report on the start of the Muller investigation quotes Trump as saying “I’m ****ed”.

J

[Jack Hackett]

Hillary’s emails turning up via Wikileaks was a wonderful coincidence for the Trump campaign. Who’d have thunk it.

Also, love how the report on the start of the Muller investigation quotes Trump as saying “I’m ****ed”.

J

Butbutbut..."I know nothing about wikileaks"


"WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump, who declared "I love WikiLeaks" during the 2016 presidential campaign, refused Thursday to comment on the arrest of the website's founder Julian Assange in London.“I know nothing about WikiLeaks," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. "It’s not my thing."

Trump said he didn't know anything about Assange's arrest and said what happens next is up to the attorney general."I know nothing really about it — it’s not my deal in life," he said.

Trump repeatedly praised WikiLeaks during the 2016 campaign for releasing documents stolen from the Democratic Party as part of a Russian effort to influence the election on Trump's behalf."

[RyeSloan]

Not looking quite so wildly wrong now that the (redacted) report has been digested by other than the highly selective Attorney General. I fully expect it to look even worse when the full(unredacted), subpoenaed report reaches congress. Obstruction of justice looks like a stick-on, and Trumps reaction to the report over the last couple of days has been a complete volte-face... from "Total Exoneration"... to "Total BS"

Basically so far it looks like Trump attempted numerous times to obstruct justice but only failed due to his staff not carrying out his orders.

I’d have thought that even attempting to obstruct might be a thing and for the President to do so multiple times is a million miles away from complete exoneration.

And that’s before the ‘no smoke without fire’ claims regarding his families actions.

[lapsedhibee]

Butbutbut..."I know nothing about wikileaks"


"WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump, who declared "I love WikiLeaks" during the 2016 presidential campaign, refused Thursday to comment on the arrest of the website's founder Julian Assange in London.“I know nothing about WikiLeaks," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. "It’s not my thing."

Trump said he didn't know anything about Assange's arrest and said what happens next is up to the attorney general."I know nothing really about it — it’s not my deal in life," he said.

Trump repeatedly praised WikiLeaks during the 2016 campaign for releasing documents stolen from the Democratic Party as part of a Russian effort to influence the election on Trump's behalf."


All very reminiscent of our next PM and his "I never said anything about Turkey in 2016".

Meanwhile a comedian triumphs in elections at the other side of Europe, and a clown's about to triumph in elections at the heart of it in May.

Things are not going well in the world.

[One Day Soon]

Why did the democrats and some posters here get it so wildly wrong?

Trump has been cleared of any wrong doing but many on .net the posters were certain that Trump would be arrested over the reports findings?

So Why did they get it so wrong and why were they so convinced of Trumps guilt? There has been no collusion with Russia by Trump.


They didn't.

An in depth reading of the report shows that this is more of a staging post than a conclusion. This is far from over and Trump will probably still go to jail - or at the very least be convicted at some point. There are 14 separate investigations under way and it's very likely they cover him, his son in law and his sons.

Obstruction of justice is coming for him.

[JeMeSouviens]

They didn't.

An in depth reading of the report shows that this is more of a staging post than a conclusion. This is far from over and Trump will probably still go to jail - or at the very least be convicted at some point. There are 14 separate investigations under way and it's very likely they cover him, his son in law and his sons.

Obstruction of justice is coming for him.

The Dems don’t have the numbers in the senate for impeachment.

[Mibbes Aye]

They didn't.

An in depth reading of the report shows that this is more of a staging post than a conclusion. This is far from over and Trump will probably still go to jail - or at the very least be convicted at some point. There are 14 separate investigations under way and it's very likely they cover him, his son in law and his sons.

Obstruction of justice is coming for him.


The Dems don’t have the numbers in the senate for impeachment.

I think, though stand to be corrected, that there is an unofficial position that makes it unlikely for sitting Presidents to be prosecuted for criminal offences until they are out of office, unless it is by special counsel or through Congress (which doesn't have to be criminal anyway).

Saying that, I find it hard to think that some of the obstructions won't stick.

I've posted before however, I think his biggest threat comes from the SDNY Attorneys' Office who are investigating him for electoral fraud.

[Ozyhibby]

The Dems don’t have the numbers in the senate for impeachment.

They don’t although they have a duty to hold impeachment hearings anyway. And once they start holding televised hearings putting witnesses under oath then public opinion can change and there may be senators who switch camps. Survival is what really motivates politicians most.


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[JeMeSouviens]

They don’t although they have a duty to hold impeachment hearings anyway. And once they start holding televised hearings putting witnesses under oath then public opinion can change and there may be senators who switch camps. Survival is what really motivates politicians most.


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Hmmm, not sure about that. I imagine they want to get as much of the story out as they can but in as non-partisan a way as they can, if that's possible. There's no point in the formal impeachment process as they can't win*. So Trump will claim exoneration and as we've seen countless times, he has the brass neck to just keep going with that in the face of all evidence.

I'm not sure what can happen to him when he's no longer pres?

* unless it somehow became a Republican led process. He has plenty of internal enemies so I suppose is possible.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think, though stand to be corrected, that there is an unofficial position that makes it unlikely for sitting Presidents to be prosecuted for criminal offences until they are out of office, unless it is by special counsel or through Congress (which doesn't have to be criminal anyway).

Saying that, I find it hard to think that some of the obstructions won't stick.

I've posted before however, I think his biggest threat comes from the SDNY Attorneys' Office who are investigating him for electoral fraud.

Yes, aiui the House has to start a formal impeachment process and then he would be tried by the Senate. But a 2/3 majority is required to convict.

[One Day Soon]

Impeachment is high risk. Lose that and he actually gets a bounce. They don't have the votes to win it just now but they might later, depending upon what comes out that is not yet public knowledge.

Far better to turn this in to a long term dripping roast, using the un-redacted version of the report to purse a whole series of mini inquiries designed to nail his reputation.

As for criminal convictions, there are two targets. Trump after he leaves office and his sons, son-in-law and closest aides while he is in office. If those 14 other investigations pull any or all of those into court it is effectively the same as putting him on trial.

Mueller's report effectively says that it isn't his job to prosecute Trump and that he has neither a) the evidence to prove collusion nor b) the ability after all that has been investigated to say that he should be exonerated. What it also effectively says is 'here's a whole litany of dodgy things - including obstruction of justice - which either should be, or in many cases already are, being investigated by other agencies which do have both the power and the responsibility to prosecute.

Informed commentators suggest that Trump's real fear throughout all of this was not that he would be found guilty of collusion with the Russians, but that the investigation into that would open up every other can of worms that he knows is out there in his past and ongoing business life and which could lead to prosecution - or worse still in his world - business/commercial failure.

This isn't going away for him, ever. One way or another he will be finished by all this.

[JeMeSouviens]

Impeachment is high risk. Lose that and he actually gets a bounce. They don't have the votes to win it just now but they might later, depending upon what comes out that is not yet public knowledge.

Far better to turn this in to a long term dripping roast, using the un-redacted version of the report to purse a whole series of mini inquiries designed to nail his reputation.

As for criminal convictions, there are two targets. Trump after he leaves office and his sons, son-in-law and closest aides while he is in office. If those 14 other investigations pull any or all of those into court it is effectively the same as putting him on trial.

Mueller's report effectively says that it isn't his job to prosecute Trump and that he has neither a) the evidence to prove collusion nor b) the ability after all that has been investigated to say that he should be exonerated. What it also effectively says is 'here's a whole litany of dodgy things - including obstruction of justice - which either should be, or in many cases already are, being investigated by other agencies which do have both the power and the responsibility to prosecute.

Informed commentators suggest that Trump's real fear throughout all of this was not that he would be found guilty of collusion with the Russians, but that the investigation into that would open up every other can of worms that he knows is out there in his past and ongoing business life and which could lead to prosecution - or worse still in his world - business/commercial failure.

This isn't going away for him, ever. One way or another he will be finished by all this.

Yes, absolutely agree with all that.

[Ozyhibby]

Hmmm, not sure about that. I imagine they want to get as much of the story out as they can but in as non-partisan a way as they can, if that's possible. There's no point in the formal impeachment process as they can't win*. So Trump will claim exoneration and as we've seen countless times, he has the brass neck to just keep going with that in the face of all evidence.

I'm not sure what can happen to him when he's no longer pres?

* unless it somehow became a Republican led process. He has plenty of internal enemies so I suppose is possible.

When he is no longer pres then the SDNY and other agencies can go after him full tilt. It would not surprise me if it brings down his whole organisation. Mueller and Congress are amassing a lot of evidence that can’t be used just now but I’m pretty sure there will be no shortage of prosecutors willing to go after him once he no longer has the protection of the presidency.


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[Jack Hackett]

Hmmm, not sure about that. I imagine they want to get as much of the story out as they can but in as non-partisan a way as they can, if that's possible. There's no point in the formal impeachment process as they can't win*. So Trump will claim exoneration and as we've seen countless times, he has the brass neck to just keep going with that in the face of all evidence.

I'm not sure what can happen to him when he's no longer pres?

* unless it somehow became a Republican led process. He has plenty of internal enemies so I suppose is possible.

When he's ex-pres he becomes an ordinary citizen and open to prosecution... Albeit still called 'Mr President'
Edit
Apologies. Missed the explanation above