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View Full Version : What impact will women’s football have on future of the men’s game in Scotland?



Austinho
20-03-2019, 12:09 AM
This post is meant as a discussion on the impact the rise in women’s football could have on smaller men’s leagues, rather than to degrade or dismiss the women’s game.

I saw an article recently about a campaign to get more equality (media coverage etc) for the women’s game. In the way our society is moving, it will only be a matter of time before this happens, and more pressure placed on equal pay too. The US women’s team are suing their FA to be paid the same, and the New Zealand teams already have this in place. Where will this money come from, and will it negatively impact the men’s game? In England they can afford to invest in both games, but for countries like Scotland, can we currently afford both equally without hurting the other.

The BBC have also just agreed to show both women’s FA Cup semi finals live, amongst other initiatives. Scottish men’s football is already down the pecking order in terms of UK media coverage, and rightly or wrongly - having us pushed further down the headlines section to be fed more women’s results is going to impact our game.

We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us. Surely it won’t be long until we are competing for coverage with women’s teams around the world too? Or can both games be promoted without impacting the other? If Sky for example started ploughing money into the WPL, then that it’s bound to leave less in the pot for the TV deal in Scotland.

On the flip side, if the Scottish government were to invest more in the women’s game, that could lead to more investment in training facilities etc, and be of benefit to clubs as a whole. Investment in grassroots would help to produce talented girls and boys alike.

Also, a few years ago - the English FA announced Rachel Yankey as their all time most capped player, ahead of Peter Shilton. Whether you agree that both games should be compared as like for like or not, there may be a day in years to come where Hibs fans are staking a claim to be Scotland 2nd most successful club ahead of Aberdeen and Hearts because we’ve won 27 major honours in total between both men and women!

Brightside
20-03-2019, 12:18 AM
So if i want to get the recent results of the Hibs Womens team you are saying its easier to find that on the BBC site than the Hibs mens team? Its not by the way. If the scottish mens games is really worried about losing column inches to the womens game then its the people that market the mens sport in Scotland that need to review what they are doing.

There was a great game in the with Durham and Chelsea at the weekend (including 2 ex Hibs players playing for Durham). The minor reporting of that on the BBC website didnt effect the reporting of any other mens game.

Michael
20-03-2019, 12:24 AM
I don't think the rise of the woman's game will have any noticeable impact on the Scottish men's game. There is room for both in my opinion.

There is a general decline in small leagues though and in my opinion the only resolution is to change with the times and form an Atlantic League with other smaller countries.

Monts
20-03-2019, 07:44 AM
So if i want to get the recent results of the Hibs Womens team you are saying its easier to find that on the BBC site than the Hibs mens team? Its not by the way. If the scottish mens games is really worried about losing column inches to the womens game then its the people that market the mens sport in Scotland that need to review what they are doing.

There was a great game in the with Durham and Chelsea at the weekend (including 2 ex Hibs players playing for Durham). The minor reporting of that on the BBC website didnt effect the reporting of any other mens game.

I don't think they were saying that it'll be easier to find the hibs women's team than the hibs men's team. They were saying if parity between the sexes is achieved then it'll be easier to find the England women's team than the Scotland men's team on websites like the BBC, as the England women's team would be on par with their men's team, and as we all know, England comes first when it comes to the BBC.

SChibs
20-03-2019, 08:01 AM
When Ronda Rousey was asked about the different payments in UFC she said it was fair men got paid more than her because they brought in a lot more money to the sport. That's how I see it with football too.

I read that Man Utd recouped much of Pogbas 89m transfer fee in shirt sales shortly after his arrival. Even the best woman's player isn't going to pull in anywhere close to that sort of money.

Viva_Palmeiras
20-03-2019, 08:07 AM
Wonder if we’ll ever see a woman coach a men’s team. With the grief Andy Murray and coach got likely any move dead in the water from football perspective. But why not?

superfurryhibby
20-03-2019, 08:15 AM
Personally, I have no interest in watching woman’s football. Nothing against it in principle, but it doesn’t do it for me. On that purely personal basis I would say that it’s unlikely to have much, if any, impact on the future of the men’s game.

Brightside
20-03-2019, 08:25 AM
Wonder if we’ll ever see a woman coach a men’s team. With the grief Andy Murray and coach got likely any move dead in the water from football perspective. But why not?

Already happened. Shelley Kerr managed a mens teams before taking the scotland job.

Pretty Boy
20-03-2019, 08:33 AM
It's probably worth remembering that the women's game was hugely popular in the early decades of the 20th century, particularly in England. Crowds of 40k and above weren't unknown. The FA reacted by banning the game for the next 50 years. The SFA followed suit and when a vote was held on lifting the ban guess who was the only country to vote against it....

When I was playing youth football I couldn't have named a girls team at the same age group as they were so few and far between. Now I could name 10 without even thinking; young girls who want to play football have somewhere to go. Part of the process is giving these girls their own role models to look up to and that means the professional ladies game needs a push. What impact will that have on men's football? In terms of salary men still earn about 100x more in England than women and in Scotland the gap can't really be qualified because the women's game here is so different in it's make up. TV deals will be driven by viewing figures and, in turn, advertising profitability and in the foreseeable future women's football isn't going to rival the men's game. The immediate concern should be that the Scottish women's game has already been left miles behind the game in England.

MWHIBBIES
20-03-2019, 08:39 AM
Equal pay would be a hilarious debate. Playing infront of a few hundred people expecting Ronaldo wages. If that actually happens clubs will just disband their women's teams and rightfully so. They should build it slowly rather than expecting the same as the guys teams who have been competing for 150 years.

Antifa Hibs
20-03-2019, 08:50 AM
The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 08:54 AM
The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.

I know this is going to sound like I’m just putting down women’s teams but Cowdenbeath u18s would demolish the best woman’s team (possibly Hibs?) in Scotland. You’d be looking at them being on a par with u15 boys at community clubs like Spartans or Leith etc imo.

Antifa Hibs
20-03-2019, 08:58 AM
calumhibee1 you're probably about right > https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

Austinho
20-03-2019, 09:05 AM
The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.I’m not suggesting we’d lose any Scottish fans to any of those leagues - but we could quite easily lose out in transfers, foreign viewers, global TV deals etc if we continue to be complacent and don’t promote the Scottish game well.

Brightside
20-03-2019, 09:07 AM
I know this is going to sound like I’m just putting down women’s teams but Cowdenbeath u18s would demolish the best woman’s team (possibly Hibs?) in Scotland. You’d be looking at them being on a par with u15 boys at community clubs like Spartans or Leith etc imo.

So what. It’s got nothing to do with this discussion.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 09:12 AM
So what. It’s got nothing to do with this discussion.

Well seeing as the quality of the women’s game will play a big part in how much it will impact the future of the men’s game it does have something to do with it. Infact, it’ll probably the single biggest factor. The women’s game will have no impact on the men’s game if the quality isn’t there.

AltheHibby
20-03-2019, 09:17 AM
So what. It’s got nothing to do with this discussion.

I think it is relevant in terms of cash. Would you pay to watch an under - 16 league? And if that's the equivalent standard, would you be prepared to pay to watch women's football?

That's not to demean the women's game, which is, in my view, 100 years behind the men's in the unsporting behaviour department (a positive), and is exciting to watch as Hibs pick up yet another trophy 🏆. 😁

Pretty Boy
20-03-2019, 09:20 AM
Well seeing as the quality of the women’s game will play a big part in how much it will impact the future of the men’s game it does have something to do with it. Infact, it’ll probably the single biggest factor. It’ll have no impact on the men’s game if the quality isn’t there.

Is quality the single biggest factor in deciding where to watch your football? If it was then clubs like Hibs would have fallen by the wayside years ago and we'd all be 'supporting' Man Utd or Barcelona. I'd argue tradition, familial ties and community are every bit as important to most fans as the quality on the park. Of course it's debatable whether the women's game has any of those factors in it's favour either but it's as much of a consideration as 'Cowdenbeath would pump Hibs'.

Brightside
20-03-2019, 09:22 AM
Well seeing as the quality of the women’s game will play a big part in how much it will impact the future of the men’s game it does have something to do with it. Infact, it’ll probably the single biggest factor. It’ll have no impact on the men’s game if the quality isn’t there.

Again people continue to fail to understand there will always be a difference in the "quality" People that watch womens tennis, golf, athletics etc arent expecting them to be better than men. Why some people (especially men) find that difficult to understand is staggering. The OPs view is that the increase in reporting will effect the game. It wont. In exactly the same way reporting of other sports hasn't effected the male equivalent. What has improved is the analysis on TV now. Alex Scott is as good as any of the men out there and better than most. So there is a positive from gender balancing.

Womens football will continue to improve and will continue to increase in popularity. And sport in general will be all the better for it.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 09:28 AM
Is quality the single biggest factor in deciding where to watch your football? If it was then clubs like Hibs would have fallen by the wayside years ago and we'd all be 'supporting' Man Utd or Barcelona. I'd argue tradition, familial ties and community are every bit as important to most fans as the quality on the park. Of course it's debatable whether the women's game has any of those factors in it's favour either but it's as much of a consideration as 'Cowdenbeath would pump Hibs'.

The SPL is the highest standard of football in this country. If we had teams of Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etcs standards you could pretty much guarantee that family ties, tradition, community etc would fall by the way side for the vast majority in favour of these teams that are light years ahead quality wise.

The same goes for women’s football. People can go and watch a standard of football at 21 different SPFL stadiums a weekend, Lowland League, Juniors and that football is light years ahead of the women’s game standard wise. Even Saturday amateur and older youth football is of a better standard to watch. Unless that gap closes then no community links or tradition will lead to women’s football impacting on the men’s game.

Pretty Boy
20-03-2019, 09:33 AM
From another angle I watched pretty much all of Cheltenham last week. Horse racing in the UK is one of the few sports in which men and women compete on equal terms and some women are superior to their male counterparts.

Over the course of the week Rachael Blackmore rode 2 winners and is well in the hunt to be the Irish champion jockey, Bryony Frost won a Grade 1 race and Lizzie Kelly also rode a winner. Finally the feature race of the 3rd day was won by a horse with a female trainer. The general reaction was that it was a great day for the sport and the various racing groups I'm a member of had almost universal acclaim for what a significant and brilliant day it was. The snide comments or dismissal of the achievements was very much in the minority.

Maybe it's a mentality issue of men feeling 'their game' is threatened that leads to a near constant need for someone to make a joke about doing the dishes or to point out which team would pump a women's team.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 09:36 AM
Again people continue to fail to understand there will always be a difference in the "quality" People that watch womens tennis, golf, athletics etc arent expecting them to be better than men. Why some people (especially men) find that difficult to understand is staggering. The OPs view is that the increase in reporting will effect the game. It wont. In exactly the same way reporting of other sports hasn't effected the male equivalent. What has improved is the analysis on TV now. Alex Scott is as good as any of the men out there and better than most. So there is a positive from gender balancing.

Womens football will continue to improve and will continue to increase in popularity. And sport in general will be all the better for it.

They’re not expecting them to be better than men, but they are expecting them to be better than teenage boys who play whatever sport it is down the local park.

The gap between men’s football and women’s football is much much wider than in the vast majority of other sports imo. Until that gap closes there will be no impact on the Scottish men’s game whether that be less reporting in favour of reporting on the women’s game or less numbers through the door at men’s games purely because there won’t be enough of an interest in the women’s game to detract from the men’s game.

Pretty Boy
20-03-2019, 09:40 AM
The SPL is the highest standard of football in this country. If we had teams of Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etcs standards you could pretty much guarantee that family ties, tradition, community etc would fall by the way side for the vast majority in favour of these teams that are light years ahead quality wise.

The same goes for women’s football. People can go and watch a standard of football at 21 different SPFL stadiums a weekend, Lowland League, Juniors and that football is light years ahead of the women’s game standard wise. Even Saturday amateur and older youth football is of a better standard to watch. Unless that gap closes then no community links or tradition will lead to women’s football impacting on the men’s game.

So if, as an example, Hearts found a Saudi billionaire investor, started to win everything and became competitive in the Champions League you think Hibs, Aberdeen and Celtic fans would start to support them and feel as passionate as they would about the team their parents and grandparents supported? Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see it.

blackpoolhibs
20-03-2019, 09:42 AM
Women's football has no impact at all in my life, i don't watch it bar the odd Hibs game which i don't really enjoy and it's only on because it's Hibs.

There is a place for it, and if it thrives then great.

If women want to play football they have every right in the world to play it, it should be self sufficient in my opinion, and any media coverage it gets really does not affect me as i don't read it.

There are many sports i don't enjoy, wrestling, hockey, swimming, judo, the list goes on, and women's football is just one of a long list that have no real effect on anything i choose to do.

GreenCastle
20-03-2019, 09:45 AM
The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.

It’s nothing to do with physicality.

People don’t watch more men’s football because they want to see more physicality.

There is more to it than that.

Horse Racing / Formula 1 etc - limited females involved but the package of entertainment and what TV shows etc makes it attractive for people to watch. Personally both bore me but many millions watch / attend.

Regarding the other leagues mentioned..Scottish Football is in its own little bubble here. These other leagues are thriving and money is being made. Other countries have thrown lots of money into the game and Scotland has been left behind.

The women’s football team has qualified for World Cup as the women’s game doesn’t have the crazy money in it yet plus many Scottish National Team players play abroad / in England so they are getting challenged by the best.

Reality is men’s football in this country is regarded at same level of Irish and Welsh leagues around the world and miles away from EPL levels structurally and financially.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 09:48 AM
So if, as an example, Hearts found a Saudi billionaire investor, started to win everything and became competitive in the Champions League you think Hibs, Aberdeen and Celtic fans would start to support them and feel as passionate as they would about the team their parents and grandparents supported? Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see it.

I don’t think a lot of folk that currently had a team would start supporting them (some no doubt would though!) but they’d absolutely start to gather the vast majority of new fans from Edinburgh and the surrounding areas and eventually all over Scotland in the same way Celtic currently do.

where'stheslope
20-03-2019, 09:49 AM
I think it is relevant in terms of cash. Would you pay to watch an under - 16 league? And if that's the equivalent standard, would you be prepared to pay to watch women's football?

That's not to demean the women's game, which is, in my view, 100 years behind the men's in the unsporting behaviour department (a positive), and is exciting to watch as Hibs pick up yet another trophy 🏆. 😁
Like your analogy with Hibs Ladies pulling in trophy's!

My problem is, the way the world is going, soon they will be asking for equal pay as in tennis?

We know they are not all as strong as men but are just as athletic, their game is more open and they have a lot more time on the ball so not as gritty as mens football!

If I'm right SKY have just invested in England's woman's rugby at international level?

Where will it stop? not sure how much was invested in England Rugby, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was more than what Scotland gets for men's football!!!!

GreenCastle
20-03-2019, 09:51 AM
I find it out people who like football can’t watch women’s football.

Football is football - I watch all levels as the sport interests me.

I’m surprised when people say women’s football isn’t good then go watch thier mate play for dog and parrot pub team and the standard is horrific or even a kids game. Football is football.

Hopefully if any dads are on here they give their daughter a chance to play and go along and support them / the sport and not avoid watching games as it’s women’s football - it’s football.

People often say I don’t watch tennis - rarely I don’t watch men’s tennis or I don’t watch women’s tennis. Most tennis fans watch tennis.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 10:00 AM
People often say I don’t watch tennis - rarely I don’t watch men’s tennis or I don’t watch women’s tennis. Most tennis fans watch tennis.

Women’s tennis is of a much higher standard comparatively than women’s football which is where the comparison becomes a bit unstuck imo. Likewise women’s golf and apparently women’s horse racing (and probably other sports aswell).

Women’s football is considerably behind a lot of other women’s sports in terms of standard. To be expected when women’s football is still in its infancy of course.

GreenCastle
20-03-2019, 10:05 AM
Women’s tennis is of a much higher standard comparatively than women’s football which is where the comparison becomes a bit unstuck imo. Likewise women’s golf and apparently women’s horse racing (and probably other sports aswell).

Women’s football is considerably behind a lot of other women’s sports in terms of standard. To be expected when women’s football is still in its infancy of course.

Tennis benefits from major tournaments being played at same time alongside each other.

Imagine men’s and women’s World Cup on at same time - growth would be huge.

Issue is those investing haven’t done enough to help and women’s game has been left behind.l and only recently teams / FAs are doing more to help as there are some gains - usually financially at end of it.

SFA criteria for teams is clubs must have link to women’s team / girls pathway.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 10:06 AM
Tennis benefits from major tournaments being played at same time alongside each other.

Imagine men’s and women’s World Cup on at same time - growth would be huge.

Issue is those investing haven’t done enough to help and women’s game has been left behind.l and only recently teams / FAs are doing more to help as there are some gains - usually financially at end of it.

SFA criteria for teams is clubs must have link to women’s team / girls pathway.

True, that definitely helps the likes of tennis playing alongside each other :agree:

Danny_Hibee
20-03-2019, 10:09 AM
I find it out people who like football can’t watch women’s football.

Football is football - I watch all levels as the sport interests me.

I’m surprised when people say women’s football isn’t good then go watch thier mate play for dog and parrot pub team and the standard is horrific or even a kids game. Football is football.

Hopefully if any dads are on here they give their daughter a chance to play and go along and support them / the sport and not avoid watching games as it’s women’s football - it’s football.

People often say I don’t watch tennis - rarely I don’t watch men’s tennis or I don’t watch women’s tennis. Most tennis fans watch tennis.

I think a lot of it is down to having an interest for one reason or another rather than quality of football. I would be far more likely to watch an SPL game or even Scottish Championship than Serie A or Bundesliga because I have an interest of sorts.

Same goes for watching kids games or mates games, there is an interest because it's your mates or (hopefully) your kids.

As for the equal pay argument, surely that is only valid when it comes to prize money? It makes no sense whatsoever in terms of wages otherwise all male players would be paid the same!

Renfrew_Hibby
20-03-2019, 10:14 AM
The rise of girls football is truly amazing.
Im often up at the Braehead shopping centre on a Sunday and the amount of girls there with their dads, still in the kits from Sunday morning games is unreal.
I never see that amount of lads kicking about, maybe it's just the location but when you see 4 teenage girls having a kick about in my local park, when there's not a boy in sight then you know times are a changing.

Brightside
20-03-2019, 10:16 AM
From another angle I watched pretty much all of Cheltenham last week. Horse racing in the UK is one of the few sports in which men and women compete on equal terms and some women are superior to their male counterparts.

Over the course of the week Rachael Blackmore rode 2 winners and is well in the hunt to be the Irish champion jockey, Bryony Frost won a Grade 1 race and Lizzie Kelly also rode a winner. Finally the feature race of the 3rd day was won by a horse with a female trainer. The general reaction was that it was a great day for the sport and the various racing groups I'm a member of had almost universal acclaim for what a significant and brilliant day it was. The snide comments or dismissal of the achievements was very much in the minority.

Maybe it's a mentality issue of men feeling 'their game' is threatened that leads to a near constant need for someone to make a joke about doing the dishes or to point out which team would pump a women's team.

Great post and spot on.

Brightside
20-03-2019, 10:21 AM
Barclays have just announced a multi million deal for the WSL down south. It will still be another generation before the girls can make a decent living from the game but the quicker the better for me. And none of it will effect the men’s game.

Antifa Hibs
20-03-2019, 10:22 AM
City of green wrote...
It’s nothing to do with physicality.

People don’t watch more men’s football because they want to see more physicality.

Was more talking sport in general not specifically football.

There is more to it than that.

Horse Racing / Formula 1 etc - limited females involved but the package of entertainment and what TV shows etc makes it attractive for people to watch. Personally both bore me but many millions watch / attend.

Individual sports were skill is more needed than physical attributes. As I said if a female jockey, darts player or motorsport driver can compete with men directly then 100% they should be allowed too and rewarded the same. Won't surprise me if female's are allowed to compete with male golfers soon.

Regarding the other leagues mentioned..Scottish Football is in its own little bubble here. These other leagues are thriving and money is being made. Other countries have thrown lots of money into the game and Scotland has been left behind.

Left behind were? States has 330m people, China over 1b people, Australia 25m people. Course these countries are going to be able to attract better players. As the popularity of football grows simply due to their population they're going to be able to generate alot more money than Scotland and its 5m people

The women’s football team has qualified for World Cup as the women’s game doesn’t have the crazy money in it yet plus many Scottish National Team players play abroad / in England so they are getting challenged by the best.

Reality is men’s football in this country is regarded at same level of Irish and Welsh leagues around the world and miles away from EPL levels structurally and financially.

Reality is mens football in this country is regarded at the same level of every other football league in Europe outside of the German, English, Spanish and Italian leagues. You're not telling me Ukrainian, Croatian and Danish football is alot more highly regarded than ours to the Asian and American markets. We've got two of the biggest supported clubs in the continent (outside the top teams in those top 4 leagues). Go abroad and most football fans know Rangers and Celtic.

As above..

MWHIBBIES
20-03-2019, 10:31 AM
Women’s tennis is of a much higher standard comparatively than women’s football which is where the comparison becomes a bit unstuck imo. Likewise women’s golf and apparently women’s horse racing (and probably other sports aswell).

Women’s football is considerably behind a lot of other women’s sports in terms of standard. To be expected when women’s football is still in its infancy of course.
Really? No female tennis player would get close to the top 250 men. Physically they are miles ahead.

calumhibee1
20-03-2019, 10:53 AM
Really? No female tennis player would get close to the top 250 men. Physically they are miles ahead.

Of course. I’m not saying it’s the same level as mens tennis. But it’s a hell of a lot closer than the difference between men’s football and women’s football imo.

wookie70
20-03-2019, 11:09 AM
How would we get equal pay between women and men players when we don't have it among the men. It isn't unusual for a better paid player to be sat on the bench while a player earning less does the same job

wookie70
20-03-2019, 11:25 AM
Women have a higher hourly rate at Wimbledon etc as they only play three set to the men's five.

Allant1981
20-03-2019, 11:27 AM
Of course. I’m not saying it’s the same level as mens tennis. But it’s a hell of a lot closer than the difference between men’s football and women’s football imo.

Serena William's played a guy ranked about 200 in the world and he horsed her about 6-0, not really that close

GaryOsCheerios
20-03-2019, 11:46 AM
My friend wrote an article on this very subject at the start of 2018 that some of you may find interesting:thumbsup:

https://thefootballblether.com/2018/01/04/should-scotland-look-at-a-woman-to-lead-the-mens-game/

Any views or feedback would be welcome!:cb

JeMeSouviens
20-03-2019, 11:49 AM
From the handful of games I've seen on the telly, I don't think the standard, even in internationals, is good enough to get a mass market yet. But it might in a few years. There should be a snowball effect if more women take up the game and hence the talent pool will get deeper.

I wonder if, given the women are a bit less powerful than men, if it might be better if they reduced the size of the pitch a bit? Maybe play Scotland womens' at Tiny?

Brightside
20-03-2019, 11:55 AM
From the handful of games I've seen on the telly, I don't think the standard, even in internationals, is good enough to get a mass market yet. But it might in a few years. There should be a snowball effect if more women take up the game and hence the talent pool will get deeper.

I wonder if, given the women are a bit less powerful than men, if it might be better if they reduced the size of the pitch a bit? Maybe play Scotland womens' at Tiny?

68000 at the recent Barca womens game. Id say its mass market already. :wink: I'll ignore the pitch size nonsense. :greengrin

JeMeSouviens
20-03-2019, 12:08 PM
68000 at the recent Barca womens game. Id say its mass market already. :wink: I'll ignore the pitch size nonsense. :greengrin

Good stat. But then again 50000 turned up at Hampden to watch u-16s (or u-35s if you're Saudi :wink:) back in the day, so one swallow and all that.

And, according to google, Atleti let their socis in for free and paying tickets started at 5 euros, so maybe not quite mass market yet.

Just Jimmy
20-03-2019, 12:19 PM
I regularly go and watch man utd ladies in league 2 down here. it's 5 quid to get in. they play at a nice wee stadium and get crowds between 2 and 4k.

it's a family feel to it, plenty dad's with their kids and wee girls who are absolutely over the moon to be able to follow football and have heroes that aren't just men. equality you can see how much it means to the dad's who take their daughters and get to spend quality time with them at their biggest interest.

the utd shop is full of young kids of both sexes getting their shirts printed with their favourite woman's player.

the standard is miles better than most on here give credit for. yes it's not as physical or even fast paced as the men's game but it's a good standard and some of the players are very technical. Katie Zelem played for juventus before utd and is excellent on the ball.

our own Kirsty Smith and Lizzy Arnott are going well and have never looked out of place.

I know the English leagues get more coverage and money than Scotland do but it's still miles behind the men's game.

I don't think it'll have a negative impact and if it gives young girls something to look up to and aspire to, or the ability to say I can do that - then it's done something positive.

if you watch it and don't enjoy it fair enough because it is different from the men's game but to rubbish it on the basis soley because it's woman is ignorance and chauvinistic.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Speedy
20-03-2019, 12:28 PM
From another angle I watched pretty much all of Cheltenham last week. Horse racing in the UK is one of the few sports in which men and women compete on equal terms and some women are superior to their male counterparts.

Over the course of the week Rachael Blackmore rode 2 winners and is well in the hunt to be the Irish champion jockey, Bryony Frost won a Grade 1 race and Lizzie Kelly also rode a winner. Finally the feature race of the 3rd day was won by a horse with a female trainer. The general reaction was that it was a great day for the sport and the various racing groups I'm a member of had almost universal acclaim for what a significant and brilliant day it was. The snide comments or dismissal of the achievements was very much in the minority.

Maybe it's a mentality issue of men feeling 'their game' is threatened that leads to a near constant need for someone to make a joke about doing the dishes or to point out which team would pump a women's team.

It's a different comparison imo. As you say, women are up there with the best im terms of jockeys and trainers so you'd expect them to be paid accordingly.

That isn't (currently at least) the case with football so talk of equal pay is quite easily shot down.

Like it or not quality has a bearing on levels of interest and income generated. As an example, you regularly get threads on here asking for £15/£5 entry for say Hibs v Elgin but if we drew Celtic or Aberdeen at he same stage of the same cup then higher prices are expected.

James Stephen
20-03-2019, 12:42 PM
Personally, I just don't care about women's fitba, in the sense that I'm totally ambivalent and have no interest.

When it comes to Hibs, obviously I would rather the women's team won than got beat but I dont care a jot if they lose.

Im not against it, I think it's great that more young girls are playing sport, and if i had a daughter maybe I'd feel differently. But I'm not going to pretend I like it, or care about it just because its become fashionable. I see its success or failure coming from getting women watching it, otherwise whats the point in it - its an inferior version of the world's most popular sport, and it wont be able to compete.

I do resent the media attention it gets, which i think is forced and disproportionate, and I absolutely do resent all these suggestions that women players somehow deserve to be treated the same as the men. Men's football has taken 150 years to evolve to the point it is now at, and it pays so well because it earns so well. And which men do the women feel they should be paid the same as? The top few % of elite players, or the guy playing juniors earning 50 quid a week semi pro?

Women's football needs to stand (or fall) on its own merits imo and find its own natural level, which will be reflected in levels of pay and prize money.

Pretty Boy
20-03-2019, 03:13 PM
Personally, I just don't care about women's fitba, in the sense that I'm totally ambivalent and have no interest.

When it comes to Hibs, obviously I would rather the women's team won than got beat but I dont care a jot if they lose.

Im not against it, I think it's great that more young girls are playing sport, and if i had a daughter maybe I'd feel differently. But I'm not going to pretend I like it, or care about it just because its become fashionable. I see its success or failure coming from getting women watching it, otherwise whats the point in it - its an inferior version of the world's most popular sport, and it wont be able to compete.

I do resent the media attention it gets, which i think is forced and disproportionate, and I absolutely do resent all these suggestions that women players somehow deserve to be treated the same as the men. Men's football has taken 150 years to evolve to the point it is now at, and it pays so well because it earns so well. And which men do the women feel they should be paid the same as? The top few % of elite players, or the guy playing juniors earning 50 quid a week semi pro?

Women's football needs to stand (or fall) on its own merits imo and find its own natural level, which will be reflected in levels of pay and prize money.

I suppose you could argue women's football is miles behind the men's game in it's standing because the game was banned for 5 decades and denied the chance to evolve in the same way. As I pointed out prior to the ban it was a hugely popular sport in it's own right; the cynic may suggest the ban was put in place as the (male) blazers felt threatened.

Whether that means we should artificially promote women's football is another matter but the decades in which footballs popularity soared to new heights, European football was born and international football developed into organised tournaments coincided with the decades in which women were denied the right to play the game in any official capacity.

ancient hibee
20-03-2019, 06:09 PM
Women’s football will probably take off on TV when someone remembers that 50 % of the viewing audience is women.Then perhaps the difference in ability and physicality won’t matter so much as women may enjoy watching women doing well.After all the Scottish women’s team has done far better than the men’s.

2016-05-21
20-03-2019, 06:33 PM
I suppose you could argue women's football is miles behind the men's game in it's standing because the game was banned for 5 decades and denied the chance to evolve in the same way. As I pointed out prior to the ban it was a hugely popular sport in it's own right; the cynic may suggest the ban was put in place as the (male) blazers felt threatened.

Whether that means we should artificially promote women's football is another matter but the decades in which footballs popularity soared to new heights, European football was born and international football developed into organised tournaments coincided with the decades in which women were denied the right to play the game in any official capacity.

Not strictly true re the women’s game being banned though is it? The English FA banned the use of member clubs’ ground’s being used by women’s teams. They didn’t ban the sport.

The English Ladies FA was formed the same year as the ‘ban’ and they used rugby grounds. People could still go and watch it if they had wanted.

cleanyman
20-03-2019, 06:41 PM
Serena William's played a guy ranked about 200 in the world and he horsed her about 6-0, not really that close

This was over 20 years ago

Peak Williams would win a couple of games at the very least

The standard of the women's tennis is fantastic but as many have said football has an issue with that at the moment.

judas
20-03-2019, 06:53 PM
In the end the definitive factor will be who wants to watch what and it will not be women’s football IMO.

It’s Formula 1, but with Ford Fiestas.

judas
20-03-2019, 06:56 PM
Not strictly true re the women’s game being banned though is it? The English FA banned the use of member clubs’ ground’s being used by women’s teams. They didn’t ban the sport.

The English Ladies FA was formed the same year as the ‘ban’ and they used rugby grounds. People could still go and watch it if they had wanted.

I’m glad you said it.

Allant1981
20-03-2019, 06:58 PM
This was over 20 years ago

Peak Williams would win a couple of games at the very least

The standard of the women's tennis is fantastic but as many have said football has an issue with that at the moment.

She won the US open the following year so wasnt exactly a novice, she was ranked 20th in the world in 1998,just checked and she did actually win a game.

Lago
20-03-2019, 07:00 PM
It's probably worth remembering that the women's game was hugely popular in the early decades of the 20th century, particularly in England. Crowds of 40k and above weren't unknown. The FA reacted by banning the game for the next 50 years. The SFA followed suit and when a vote was held on lifting the ban guess who was the only country to vote against it....

When I was playing youth football I couldn't have named a girls team at the same age group as they were so few and far between. Now I could name 10 without even thinking; young girls who want to play football have somewhere to go. Part of the process is giving these girls their own role models to look up to and that means the professional ladies game needs a push. What impact will that have on men's football? In terms of salary men still earn about 100x more in England than women and in Scotland the gap can't really be qualified because the women's game here is so different in it's make up. TV deals will be driven by viewing figures and, in turn, advertising profitability and in the foreseeable future women's football isn't going to rival the men's game. The immediate concern should be that the Scottish women's game has already been left miles behind the game in England.

And will continue to be left behind with Barclays announcement of sponsorship.

cleanyman
20-03-2019, 07:07 PM
She won the US open the following year so wasnt exactly a novice, she was ranked 20th in the world in 1998,just checked and she did actually win a game.

And aftet that in practice matches she beat a few men

So you've lost your point

Allant1981
20-03-2019, 07:10 PM
And aftet that in practice matches she beat a few men

So you've lost your point

No I've not, training is completely different, I scored a goal against an ex pro keeper once, doesn't mean I'm good enough to play in the premier league

cleanyman
20-03-2019, 07:12 PM
No I've not, training is completely different, I scored a goal against an ex pro keeper once, doesn't mean I'm good enough to play in the premier league

But she's played at elite level her whole life

You haven't

Allant1981
20-03-2019, 07:16 PM
But she's played at elite level her whole life

You haven't

We are going round in circles here, she wasnt good enough to win when she was claiming that her and her sister could win, the guy had went for a drink beforehand and still won, what she could or couldnt do at her peak is irrelevant as she never done it. Hopefully the thread gets back on track now

cleanyman
20-03-2019, 07:20 PM
We are going round in circles here, she wasnt good enough to win when she was claiming that her and her sister could win, the guy had went for a drink beforehand and still won, what she could or couldnt do at her peak is irrelevant as she never done it. Hopefully the thread gets back on track now

Because you've lost your point

Any dumpling could do what you've done. Winning a set of tennis is a far superior task. You said it wouldn't be close yet she's beaten men in practice times. I was lucky enough to be hitting on another court when she was dishing a lesson out to a fellow male French pro. These things do happen.

Of course they wouldn't ne anywhere near the top 100 but they'd give most of the men a game outwith what

judas
20-03-2019, 07:21 PM
And aftet that in practice matches she beat a few men

So you've lost your point

What a ridiculous statement.

Allant1981
20-03-2019, 07:23 PM
Because you've lost your point

Any dumpling could do what you've done. Winning a set of tennis is a far superior task. You said it wouldn't be close yet she's beaten men in practice times. I was lucky enough to be hitting on another court when she was dishing a lesson out to a fellow male French pro. These things do happen.

Of course they wouldn't ne anywhere near the top 100 but they'd give most of the men a game outwith what

I've not lost any point, she played a match and was gubbed, that's the fact, practice is completely different, if you have played any sport at any level you would know that, no doubt you will come back with something else as you tend to like that last word so fire in, I'm out

cleanyman
20-03-2019, 07:24 PM
I've not lost any point, she played a match and was gubbed, that's the fact, practice is completely different, if you have played any sport at any level you would know that, no doubt you will come back with something else as you tend to like that last word so fire in, I'm out

6-1 and 6-2 wasn't exactly 6-0 though was it? And she was 17 with Venus 18 at the time

Okay then

Kaff
20-03-2019, 08:16 PM
The OP made a point that the majority have missed, the question wasn't about which is better but what effect the increased interest in women's football will have on the men's game up here.
It's very pertinent since English men's football is being priced out of the BBCs ability to cover live games and helps them meet equality targets by showing more of the women's fame, coupled with this big new Barclays sponsorship deal I can see their game growing ever bigger and the actual coverage eclipsing what the Scottish men's game achieves in no time at all.
Of course the women's game here too will struggle with that but of course a gateway to the English game is there for the better players in the same way it is for their male counterparts.
Will satellite broadcasters start throwing money at the women's game as well if it continues on an upwards curve? Course they will and that's where the OP is looking towards when he's wondering if the Scottish game will potentially be down graded in the eyes of the media.

Keith_M
20-03-2019, 08:36 PM
When I lived in Munich, the German Ladies team was preparing for the World Cup Finals (having been world champions as recently as 2007) and had various games in preparation. One of these was against a team from the south of Bavaria who were representing their region, an area roughly the size of East Lothian

A full strength Ladies team was sent out and duly earned a 2-2- draw... against the Under 18 boys.

Kaff
20-03-2019, 08:47 PM
When I lived in Munich, the German Ladies team was preparing for the World Cup Finals (having been world champions as recently as 2007) and had various games in preparation. One of these was against a team from the south of Bavaria who were representing their region, an area roughly the size of East Lothian

A full strength Ladies team was sent out and duly earned a 2-2- draw... against the Under 18 boys.

And yet the women's game is growing in popularity and markedly so from that time, it's got nothing to do with direct comparison to the mens game, the question was about any impact it may have on the coverage of the Scottish men's game.
I can't imagine there's a single person who will say that they think women's football in general would be able to beat our elite teams in a match but I absolutely believe that the women's game in England will financially be ahead of our game if the same path is followed by both games for the next 10 yrs

Eyrie
20-03-2019, 09:05 PM
When I watch a Hibs Ladies game on the TV, I don't wonder if they have the physicality to cope with Hearts or the skills to match Barcelona, I just enjoy watching some decent football from a Hibs team.

I'm also aware that there will be some bad errors in the game, but then I'm equally aware that I'm watching amateurs and not full time professionals. I adjust my expectations to the level I'm watching, just as I do when I'm at Easter Road or watching the World Cup.

Silky
20-03-2019, 09:06 PM
The rise of girls football is truly amazing.
Im often up at the Braehead shopping centre on a Sunday and the amount of girls there with their dads, still in the kits from Sunday morning games is unreal.
I never see that amount of lads kicking about, maybe it's just the location but when you see 4 teenage girls having a kick about in my local park, when there's not a boy in sight then you know times are a changing.

:agree: My daughter is 10 and loves football. She plays whenever she can and is pretty decent. A few years ago she played with a team. There were about 6 girls and the rest were boys. They were all coached the same and I found the girls were technically better than the boys
When they played their matches at weekends they could more than hold their own and some were physically stronger than the boys!

I love the fact that women's football is out there and is being talked about and publicised a bit more than it ever has before. There is absolutely no reason why a girl who loves football should have to solely watch men play a game which can be played by anyone. I'll take my daughter to watch a women's game any day of the week and I'll sit and watch women's games with her. I don't want her growing up thinking that football is a game which can only be played at a high level by boys. There are men and women in the world and there should be no limits as to what anyone can do.

Pretty Boy
20-03-2019, 09:17 PM
Not strictly true re the women’s game being banned though is it? The English FA banned the use of member clubs’ ground’s being used by women’s teams. They didn’t ban the sport.

The English Ladies FA was formed the same year as the ‘ban’ and they used rugby grounds. People could still go and watch it if they had wanted.

Not banned outright but stripped of it's status, funding and administration.

It's hard to suggest that lack of 'official' recognition didn't have a negative impact on the game when you compare the status of the women's game here to countries in Scandinavia and the US.

Ozymandias
20-03-2019, 09:59 PM
There seems to be a desire for some to make it and either/or debate when it should really be seen as a "both" opportunity. The more the womens game thrives, the more a previously largely untapped source of fans becomes engaged with it. Some will watch womens matches, and it will grow and thrive. It also - critically - will push more people to go and watch the mens game. The mens game is established and provides the pinnacle of the sport (and given the physical/biological differences is likely to remain so).

It is an utter irrelevance about who would beat who. In literally any sport that requires physicality as a core component of competitiveness, a mediocre mens squad or individual will beat a womens equivalent be it football, rugby, hockey, cricket, tennis, athletics or whatever. If you think this is a valid point, then the logical conclusion is that all womens sport is largely pointless and irrelevant. This clearly isn't the case

I've recently moved down south and have been getting back involved in coaching girls football after heavy involvement in Scotland for years. I was at a meeting last week and the FA's goal is to have equal playing numbers of boys and girls in tem years, and are funding the growth very strongly. The Scottish FA are also working hard to develop and enhance the game. What is clear is the it will continue to grow, and the option of not embracing it for the overall benefit of the game wont exist.

Finally, the question of equal pay is largely moot. No-one is suggesting (seriously) that Hibs Ladies get paid the same as the mens 1st team. That's a straw man with no basis in truth
Remuneration for international representative football for what are essentially amateur players (certainly those based domestically) is worthy of more consideration.

Wee Effen Bee
20-03-2019, 10:08 PM
Not banned outright but stripped of it's status, funding and administration.

It's hard to suggest that lack of 'official' recognition didn't have a negative impact on the game when you compare the status of the women's game here to countries in Scandinavia and the US.

I agree. I wonder where women’s fitba would be if if there hadn’t been concerted efforts by those old men in Smokey rooms to keep women in their place. Girls were prohibited from playing in boys teams up to the 90s for Christ sake. I wonder where the men’s game would be if it were as stifled and discouraged as much as the women have been. Our popular national sports would be bowling, golf or darts. This nonsense about men being better than women a straw man argument. Give women’s fitba 150 years of real backing and I’m guessing things will be a whole lot different.

Forza Fred
20-03-2019, 10:44 PM
Whether the dinosaurs like it or not, the upsurge in women’d Football...of all codes, continues in Oz.

There is now a women’s Australian Rules competition and is in its second year.

Crowds of around 5000 are now not unknown and tv coverage is also in place

Rugby League...the most brutal of sports in my opinion, has also jumped on the bandwagon and has started its own competition too.

Fitba wise, the W League has been going for a few years, and although not getting any huge gates, is shown live on tv every week during the season.

The National women’s fitba team known as the Matildas, has been referred to as ‘Australia’s favourite sports team’ partly because of their excellent role modelling skills, but mostly because of their high standing in women’ world football...they win!

I have watched the emergence of women’s football down here, as a fitba supporter, with pride.

I can’t see them overtaking men’s football spectator wise, but if they do, good luck to them.

GreenCastle
21-03-2019, 10:28 AM
When I lived in Munich, the German Ladies team was preparing for the World Cup Finals (having been world champions as recently as 2007) and had various games in preparation. One of these was against a team from the south of Bavaria who were representing their region, an area roughly the size of East Lothian

A full strength Ladies team was sent out and duly earned a 2-2- draw... against the Under 18 boys.


The term ladies is very dated now.

It's not gentlemen's football.

It's men and women's football - or really just FOOTBALL.

Hibs Ladies will change to Hibs Women in near future but nearly all clubs now try avoid ladies.

Brightside
21-03-2019, 11:00 AM
Because you've lost your point

Any dumpling could do what you've done. Winning a set of tennis is a far superior task. You said it wouldn't be close yet she's beaten men in practice times. I was lucky enough to be hitting on another court when she was dishing a lesson out to a fellow male French pro. These things do happen.

Of course they wouldn't ne anywhere near the top 100 but they'd give most of the men a game outwith what

But this has got nothing to do with the OP original point. Why people keep turning this into women arent as good as men at sport is beyond me. ITS NOT THE POINT.

Allant1981
21-03-2019, 11:10 AM
The term ladies is very dated now.

It's not gentlemen's football.

It's men and women's football - or really just FOOTBALL.

Hibs Ladies will change to Hibs Women in near future but nearly all clubs now try avoid ladies.

Dated? Since when

Brightside
21-03-2019, 11:20 AM
Dated? Since when

Since all the teams started changing their name to Womens club or even better just removing the gender completely.

Lago
21-03-2019, 01:10 PM
But this has got nothing to do with the OP original point. Why people keep turning this into women arent as good as men at sport is beyond me. ITS NOT THE POINT.

Unfortunately a lot of folk want it to be THE POINT & only point !!

Keith_M
21-03-2019, 02:59 PM
And yet the women's game is growing in popularity and markedly so from that time, it's got nothing to do with direct comparison to the mens game, the question was about any impact it may have on the coverage of the Scottish men's game.
I can't imagine there's a single person who will say that they think women's football in general would be able to beat our elite teams in a match but I absolutely believe that the women's game in England will financially be ahead of our game if the same path is followed by both games for the next 10 yrs



My post was in the context of the previous comments about the difference in quality between the Men's and Women's games.

As for a direct comparison... it was the cream of the Women's side against Boys, and they still couldn't win. Anyone that thinks they should be paid the same level of wages (as some have actually suggested) must be aff their nut.


If there's a market for Women's football, then that's fair enough, good luck to them. I don't think it'll be a threat to Men's Football commercially.

Keith_M
21-03-2019, 03:01 PM
The term ladies is very dated now.

It's not gentlemen's football.

It's men and women's football - or really just FOOTBALL.

Hibs Ladies will change to Hibs Women in near future but nearly all clubs now try avoid ladies.


You win the award for overly-awoke post of the day. Congrats.

No offence was intended to anybody, but that still doesn't stop people taking it.

easty
21-03-2019, 03:25 PM
The term ladies is very dated now.

It's not gentlemen's football.

It's men and women's football - or really just FOOTBALL.

Hibs Ladies will change to Hibs Women in near future but nearly all clubs now try avoid ladies.

I can't put into words just how much I hate this post.

Pretty Boy
21-03-2019, 03:29 PM
You win the award for overly-awoke post of the day. Congrats.

No offence was intended to anybody, but that still doesn't stop people taking it.

Maybe I'm missing it but where did anybody 'take offence'?

A poster simply stated that many clubs are now dropping the term 'Ladies' from their women's team, which happens to be factually correct, and another suggested it won't be long before Hibs follow suit. If that is 'taking offence' then our definitions of the term are obviously miles apart.

Brightside
21-03-2019, 03:32 PM
I can't put into words just how much I hate this post.

Why?

easty
21-03-2019, 03:43 PM
Why?

I cant put it into words

LancashireHibby
21-03-2019, 04:40 PM
I do some work for women's football and it's very much a family audience that they attract, much more so than men's football but there's no doubting that the groundwork is there with crowds and coverage increasing all the time. In reality though there's always likely to be a certain ceiling in how far crowds will progress and - most importantly - how much money the game can generate for itself. At the moment, a lot of the clubs are either struggling to stay afloat on their own limited income or are, rightly or wrongly, subsidised by each club's men's side.

The outfield technical ability can be outstanding in the games that I've seen, but there is certainly a lack of quality at times in the organisation of defences and certainly goalkeeping, though again it's improving all the time as the player pool increases.


Rugby League...the most brutal of sports in my opinion, has also jumped on the bandwagon and has started its own competition too.
I actually watched a bit of the Jillaroos on TV during the World Cup in 2017 and the standard was remarkably high. Ruan Sims is their captain and played rugby union for Australia (don't know about their nickname!) in World Cup 2010. Her brothers Ashton, Korbin and Tariq are all pro RL players. With Ashton playing over here for Warrington (now with Toronto), there was a bit of a feature on Sky about the family which was pretty interesting. Seems she certainly didn't back down from the scraps with her brothers as kids!

GreenCastle
21-03-2019, 04:42 PM
You win the award for overly-awoke post of the day. Congrats.

No offence was intended to anybody, but that still doesn't stop people taking it.

Maybe - but if you speak to those involved in the game they all prefer women’s football or just simply football.

Just trying to help those who are oblivious to the changes taking place in the game - not trying to be a smart arse.

Pretty Boy
21-03-2019, 04:44 PM
Anyone know what the women are up to on Saturday?

Saturday Boy
21-03-2019, 04:50 PM
Anyone know what the women are up to on Saturday?

Hibs Ladies playing Stirling Uni at Stenhousemuir on Sunday.

Scotland Under 17 women’s team play Norway at Oriam on Saturday. 16:30 kick off and free admission.

cabbageandribs1875
21-03-2019, 04:52 PM
Hibs Ladies playing Stirling Uni at Stenhousemuir on Sunday.

Scotland Under 17 women’s team play Norway at Oriam on Saturday. 16:30 kick off and free admission.



assuming they get back in time after playing in Kazakhstan tonight





oops, getting my genders mixed up sorry :)

The 90+2
21-03-2019, 05:27 PM
The term ladies is very dated now.

It's not gentlemen's football.

It's men and women's football - or really just FOOTBALL.

Hibs Ladies will change to Hibs Women in near future but nearly all clubs now try avoid ladies.

Ffs.

GreenCastle
21-03-2019, 05:31 PM
Ffs.

What’s wrong ? Try put it into proper words.

calumhibee1
22-03-2019, 07:01 AM
But this has got nothing to do with the OP original point. Why people keep turning this into women arent as good as men at sport is beyond me. ITS NOT THE POINT.

The OP is asking what impact women’s football will have on the future of the men’s game in Scotland. You’re kidding yourself on if you think the quality of the game compared to the men’s game is irrelevant to that point. At the end of the day, the quality of the product is the most important aspect, so it’s probably the most important point of all. It would seem more like you don’t want it to be one of the points because it’s not going to result in a favourable answer for women’s football.

You wouldn’t ask “what impact will product A have on the future of the world favourite, long established product B” without asking if the quality of product A was actually any good. The same applies here. And when someone told you that product A was massively inferior your answer would then be “absolutely none”.

Brightside
22-03-2019, 07:24 AM
The OP is asking what impact women’s football will have on the future of the men’s game in Scotland. You’re kidding yourself on if you think the quality of the game compared to the men’s game is irrelevant to that point. At the end of the day, the quality of the product is the most important aspect, so it’s probably the most important point of all. It would seem more like you don’t want it to be one of the points because it’s not going to result in a favourable answer for women’s football.

You wouldn’t ask “what impact will product A have on the future of the world favourite, long established product B” without asking if the quality of product A was actually any good. The same applies here. And when someone told you that product A was massively inferior your answer would then be “absolutely none”.

No one is going to stop watching Hibs men in order to watch a Hibs Women team. That’s clear to everyone. Some will watch both when they can. Those that are going to watch the Women’s games are luckily well aware that there is no comparison between men and women’s football. In the same way many of us go and watch u14s kids play every week. It’s just football. They are not competing against each other and never will do. So the impact on men’s football is zero. But don’t let that stop the sexist bull that appears on every thread that brings up women’s football. I hope some of the people on this thread never bring daughters into the world.

calumhibee1
22-03-2019, 07:48 AM
No one is going to stop watching Hibs men in order to watch a Hibs Women team. That’s clear to everyone. Some will watch both when they can. Those that are going to watch the Women’s games are luckily well aware that there is no comparison between men and women’s football. In the same way many of us go and watch u14s kids play every week. It’s just football. They are not competing against each other and never will do. So the impact on men’s football is zero. But don’t let that stop the sexist bull that appears on every thread that brings up women’s football. I hope some of the people on this thread never bring daughters into the world.

Read your first sentence then read the question that was asked. You’ve given the same answer as the posts you’re objecting to.

Just because the answer isn’t favourable to women’s football it doesn’t make it sexist bull. You don’t have to big up women’s football as something it’s not to not be sexist.

Change the question to “what impact will junior/lowland league football have on the future of top level men’s football in Scotland” and you’d get the same answer with the same reasoning (although junior/lowland league football is much closer to the men’s top level game in the majority of aspects whether that be standard, coverage, crowds, finances, probably even facilities).

People aren’t making these points because it’s women’s football, it’s because it’s pretty hard to see any other outcome than it having no impact whatsoever.

Allant1981
22-03-2019, 07:52 AM
No one is going to stop watching Hibs men in order to watch a Hibs Women team. That’s clear to everyone. Some will watch both when they can. Those that are going to watch the Women’s games are luckily well aware that there is no comparison between men and women’s football. In the same way many of us go and watch u14s kids play every week. It’s just football. They are not competing against each other and never will do. So the impact on men’s football is zero. But don’t let that stop the sexist bull that appears on every thread that brings up women’s football. I hope some of the people on this thread never bring daughters into the world.

It's not being sexist suggesting that female players should not get paid the same as the top guys when the product is not as good, it's not being sexist to say the game should not get as much coverage, the top junior teams dont get that much space in a newspaper so why should the women? The papers/media will write about it if the reader wants it but clearly there currently isn't a market for it,Promote the game of course, anyone should be able to play the game regardless of age or sex but to suggest it's being sexist(on this thread at least) is nonsense

Brightside
22-03-2019, 08:08 AM
It's not being sexist suggesting that female players should not get paid the same as the top guys when the product is not as good, it's not being sexist to say the game should not get as much coverage, the top junior teams dont get that much space in a newspaper so why should the women? The papers/media will write about it if the reader wants it but clearly there currently isn't a market for it,Promote the game of course, anyone should be able to play the game regardless of age or sex but to suggest it's being sexist(on this thread at least) is nonsense

You are the only one saying anything about paying them the same? Hibs Women get paid nothing! Not a single penny. Lisa Robertson recently signed for Durham. She gets travel expenses and nothing more. For that she works full time in edinburgh then jumps on a train at 5pm....trains every night in Durham then get the last train home at night. She's up again at 6am to start her working day again. Plenty of Junior men players get paid and they still play in front of 10 men and a dug.

As a planet we have a roughly 50/50 split of sexes. So why wouldnt the news reflect that? Its nothing to do with how much they are paid or how many people want to watch them. And in case you haven't noticed there is no shortage of space for reporting now. Its not like they are pushing out Junior teams from the pages of the Pink. The majority read sports news on line.

Brightside
22-03-2019, 08:12 AM
Read your first sentence then read the question that was asked. You’ve given the same answer as the posts you’re objecting to.

Just because the answer isn’t favourable to women’s football it doesn’t make it sexist bull. You don’t have to big up women’s football as something it’s not to not be sexist.

Change the question to “what impact will junior/lowland league football have on the future of top level men’s football in Scotland” and you’d get the same answer with the same reasoning (although junior/lowland league football is much closer to the men’s top level game in the majority of aspects whether that be standard, coverage, crowds, finances, probably even facilities).

People aren’t making these points because it’s women’s football, it’s because it’s pretty hard to see any other outcome than it having no impact whatsoever.

No my first sentence is clear. There isnt a choice that needs to be made. Unless Hibs Women start playing at 3pm on a Saturday anyone can watch both. So there isnt an impact on the Mens game. The main issue with the mens game in Scotland is rubbish coaching and a poor end product thats getting worse every year. Mens football should be more concerned with that and less concerned with what the womens game is doing.

Allant1981
22-03-2019, 08:19 AM
You are the only one saying anything about paying them the same? Hibs Women get paid nothing! Not a single penny. Lisa Robertson recently signed for Durham. She gets travel expenses and nothing more. For that she works full time in edinburgh then jumps on a train at 5pm....trains every night in Durham then get the last train home at night. She's up again at 6am to start her working day again. Plenty of Junior men players get paid and they still play in front of 10 men and a dug.

As a planet we have a roughly 50/50 split of sexes. So why wouldnt the news reflect that? Its nothing to do with how much they are paid or how many people want to watch them. And in case you haven't noticed there is no shortage of space for reporting now. Its not like they are pushing out Junior teams from the pages of the Pink. The majority read sports news on line.

Others have also mentioned equal pay in their posts but no problem, the top junior players get paid, most get paid travel money, but you will know that of course

If there is the market for reporting on the womens game then it will happen, it probably does already but of course it has to do with how many people watch it or how popular it is

calumhibee1
22-03-2019, 08:26 AM
No my first sentence is clear. There isnt a choice that needs to be made. Unless Hibs Women start playing at 3pm on a Saturday anyone can watch both. So there isnt an impact on the Mens game. The main issue with the mens game in Scotland is rubbish coaching and a poor end product thats getting worse every year. Mens football should be more concerned with that and less concerned with what the womens game is doing.

Maybe it’s the question that you have an issue with rather than peoples replies then?

The question asks if there’ll be an impact on the future of the men’s game. The quality of the women’s game is massively linked to whether there would be any impact. Low quality will mean low/no impact. High quality could potentially mean a big impact, people potentially going to watch on a Sunday at 5pm or whenever it’s played and not going to watch men on a Saturday at 3pm.

I’m not sure if you’re talking about on this thread or more generally, but there’s been absolutely nothing sexist as far as I can see. People just aren’t dressing women’s football up as some sort of entertaining high quality product and are pointing out that while the standard is as poor as it is that there’s no incentive to watch or read articles or whatever else and that because of that it’ll have no impact on the men’s game.

Brightside
22-03-2019, 08:29 AM
Others have also mentioned equal pay in their posts but no problem, the top junior players get paid, most get paid travel money, but you will know that of course

If there is the market for reporting on the womens game then it will happen, it probably does already but of course it has to do with how many people watch it or how popular it is

The vast majority of junior players are on salaried contracts.

Women is scotland wont get on that level in my lifetime. Hence why anyone who is half decent is moving down south. That will have a detrimental effect on the womens games in scotland as the quality will not be seen to improve. Even if the best scottish players are improving.

The WSL in england is improving every year and is a very watchable spectacle for most now.

Allant1981
22-03-2019, 08:37 AM
The vast majority of junior players are on salaried contracts.

Women is scotland wont get on that level in my lifetime. Hence why anyone who is half decent is moving down south. That will have a detrimental effect on the womens games in scotland as the quality will not be seen to improve. Even if the best scottish players are improving.

The WSL in england is improving every year and is a very watchable spectacle for most now.

Again the top teams pay money, most get paid enough to cover expenses to get to training etc, I worked with a player who plays for one of the top junior teams in the country and we discussed this a fair bit.

I have no doubt the game is improving and as I've mentioned before anyone who wants to play the game should be able to regardless of age or sex.

Brightside
22-03-2019, 08:42 AM
Again the top teams pay money, most get paid enough to cover expenses to get to training etc, I worked with a player who plays for one of the top junior teams in the country and we discussed this a fair bit.

I have no doubt the game is improving and as I've mentioned before anyone who wants to play the game should be able to regardless of age or sex.

So just to wrap up on the OP. Any additional reporting of Womens football in the press or social media will not have any impact on the Mens game in scotland. Can we all agree on that?

Allant1981
22-03-2019, 08:44 AM
So just to wrap up on the OP. Any additional reporting of Womens football in the press or social media will not have any impact on the Mens game in scotland. Can we all agree on that?

😁

LancashireHibby
22-03-2019, 09:22 AM
Is there a certain angle that some parents might start to be more inclined to take their kids - especially girls - to watch women's games in a family atmosphere rather than the bile that so often accompanies the bile in the men's game in Scotland?

Ozymandias
22-03-2019, 04:53 PM
Maybe it’s the question that you have an issue with rather than peoples replies then?

The question asks if there’ll be an impact on the future of the men’s game. The quality of the women’s game is massively linked to whether there would be any impact. Low quality will mean low/no impact. High quality could potentially mean a big impact, people potentially going to watch on a Sunday at 5pm or whenever it’s played and not going to watch men on a Saturday at 3pm.

I’m not sure if you’re talking about on this thread or more generally, but there’s been absolutely nothing sexist as far as I can see. People just aren’t dressing women’s football up as some sort of entertaining high quality product and are pointing out that while the standard is as poor as it is that there’s no incentive to watch or read articles or whatever else and that because of that it’ll have no impact on the men’s game.

Rather than retype an earlier reply, the likely impact on the mens game will be positive. As the sport of football becomes more widely played and enjoyed- and the main growth in participation is by far amongst women and girls - them the demand to watch at the highest level (currently and likely to remain the professional mens game) is likely to increase also. This is surely straightforward to see?

Sammy7nil
22-03-2019, 05:38 PM
You are the only one saying anything about paying them the same? Hibs Women get paid nothing! Not a single penny. Lisa Robertson recently signed for Durham. She gets travel expenses and nothing more. For that she works full time in edinburgh then jumps on a train at 5pm....trains every night in Durham then get the last train home at night. She's up again at 6am to start her working day again. Plenty of Junior men players get paid and they still play in front of 10 men and a dug.

As a planet we have a roughly 50/50 split of sexes. So why wouldnt the news reflect that? Its nothing to do with how much they are paid or how many people want to watch them. And in case you haven't noticed there is no shortage of space for reporting now. Its not like they are pushing out Junior teams from the pages of the Pink. The majority read sports news on line.

There won't be a 50\50 split because people men and women are not interested. Exactly the same way Cowdenbeath won't get the same coverage as Celtic people are not interested. No organisation except a public one like BBC will make even minimum effort until the sport grows itself. I don't know what Barca did to 60k at a women's game but we are long way of regular crowds of even 1000.

Renfrew_Hibby
22-03-2019, 05:51 PM
There won't be a 50\50 split because people men and women are not interested. Exactly the same way Cowdenbeath won't get the same coverage as Celtic people are not interested. No organisation except a public one like BBC will make even minimum effort until the sport grows itself. I don't know what Barca did to 60k at a women's game but we are long way of regular crowds of even 1000.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Sky have thrown their full weight behind netball. They have funded a professional league which is now covered extensively on their channels.

This is a sport that is widely played but has had very minimal general public awareness outside of Australia and New Zealand until now but we now have established sides, professional players and an ever growing tv following.

I believe that there is a real willingness down south to promote female participation in sport and plenty of companies and organizations are looking to capitalize financially off the back of it.

Sky are using netball as a test and a forerunner to how it will cover womens football further down the line.
Ten years from now, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Sky and the BBC are shelling out far more to cover womans football than male Scottish football, it will be a far bigger sport, UK wide, both in participation and interest.

Just Jimmy
22-03-2019, 06:00 PM
There won't be a 50\50 split because people men and women are not interested. Exactly the same way Cowdenbeath won't get the same coverage as Celtic people are not interested. No organisation except a public one like BBC will make even minimum effort until the sport grows itself. I don't know what Barca did to 60k at a women's game but we are long way of regular crowds of even 1000.

except BT sport regularly show woman's games.

men's football in Scotland has got enough to worry about without wetting the bed because of woman's football. our game is a bloody shambles.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Sammy7nil
22-03-2019, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Sky have thrown their full weight behind netball. They have funded a professional league which is now covered extensively on their channels.

This is a sport that is widely played but has had very minimal general public awareness outside of Australia and New Zealand until now but we now have established sides, professional players and an ever growing tv following.

I believe that there is a real willingness down south to promote female participation in sport and plenty of companies and organizations are looking to capitalize financially off the back of it.

Sky are using netball as a test and a forerunner to how it will cover womens football further down the line.
Ten years from now, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Sky and the BBC are shelling out far more to cover womans football than male Scottish football, it will be a far bigger sport, UK wide, both in participation and interest.


except BT sport regularly show woman's games.

men's football in Scotland has got enough to worry about without wetting the bed because of woman's football. our game is a bloody shambles.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Sorry I thought we were talking about Scottish women's football. I have no doubt someone will try to cash in on women's sport. I just think it is very unlikely it will take off in my life time. The only women's sport shown regularly on tv over the past twenty years is tennis. The have equality in pay however I have no idea how as out with the slams the crowds look very poor. Do you know anyone who has watched netball match on Sky ? If more and more women's sport is on tv i can see more and more people ending their subscription. I may be wildly off the mark.

Dom'sFirstTouch
22-03-2019, 06:19 PM
It’s a false dichotomy.

The far bigger issue is the ever increasing concentration of resources among a decreasing number of elite European clubs.

Until we find a way to stop this and start redistributing money properly across the game Scottish football in all its forms will continue to fall further and further behind.

Ozymandias
22-03-2019, 06:44 PM
...I just think it is very unlikely it will take off in my life time...

I hope your health is not in such a precarious state...
The sport indisputably has taken off in the last 5-10 years. Some facts: largest female participation team sport in UK. Third largest team sport in UK (behind mens football and rugby). Largest growth of participants in any sport on both percentage and absolute numbers.
This doesn't mean it's better or it will ever draw the same crowds or finance or interest. What can't be doubted is that it exists and is thriving. With this level of growth and market it will attract money and coverage

Sammy7nil
22-03-2019, 07:24 PM
I hope your health is not in such a precarious state...
The sport indisputably has taken off in the last 5-10 years. Some facts: largest female participation team sport in UK. Third largest team sport in UK (behind mens football and rugby). Largest growth of participants in any sport on both percentage and absolute numbers.
This doesn't mean it's better or it will ever draw the same crowds or finance or interest. What can't be doubted is that it exists and is thriving. With this level of growth and market it will attract money and coverage

Participation yes but it won't take off on the crowd side week to week in Scotland it probably never will. I have no doubt the women's world cup will have huge crowds but that is once every four years. People in Scotland will never turn out to watch Scottish women's football imho.

Stonewall
22-03-2019, 09:50 PM
One of the most notable changes over my 48 years watching Hibs has been in the number of women attending matches. Therefore the more women who play and are interested in football means the men’s team will receive a benefit, that’s why it is important that Hibernian Ladies remain strong and are regarded as part of the same club.

hibsboy69
22-03-2019, 10:38 PM
If women want to play football good luck to them. :aok:

In the same way as the majority of women don't like watching men's football, I personally feel the same way about women's football...…...I find it painful to watch and I don't think they're very good, especially the goalies ! (in my opinion).

Having said that......the women's team would surely have put up a more impressive performance against Kazakhstan than the men's team did ! :rolleyes:

To answer the OP, I don't think women's football will have any impact on men's football :agree:

Eyrie
22-03-2019, 10:51 PM
As the playing numbers increase, the standard will increase as well which will help win over some of the doubters.

RyeSloan
22-03-2019, 11:33 PM
Sone relevant stuff to this thread in here.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/one-club-vision-aims-to-put-hearts-in-the-vanguard-of-women-s-game-1-4893847


As some have alluded to the game in England is going from strength to strength, no doubt assisted by the riches of the clubs.

That said it’s interesting to note that Hearts are effectively folding the womens / girls set up into the club as a whole, something I would like Hibs to do as well, esp as we seem keen to espouse our ‘community’ connections. Yet as it stands we seem reluctant to formally include the community of girls and women that already represent Hibernian into the football club.

As for the Op I’m not sure it’s a zero sum game. The rise and rise of girls playing football can also benefit the men’s senior teams as well. The fact the girls can aspire to play for their own club and country as well as dream of being professionals in their own right only encourages them to have an interest in the game as a whole. That means more of them want to see the men’s team play and the fan base of the club gets bigger by their involvement.

So I think it’s short sighted to see the women’s game as a challenge to the men’s game, it should be seen as an opportunity to bring more people into the game and ultimately more girls and women through the turnstiles at ER.

Kaff
23-03-2019, 12:21 AM
Sone relevant stuff to this thread in here.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/one-club-vision-aims-to-put-hearts-in-the-vanguard-of-women-s-game-1-4893847


As some have alluded to the game in England is going from strength to strength, no doubt assisted by the riches of the clubs.

That said it’s interesting to note that Hearts are effectively folding the womens / girls set up into the club as a whole, something I would like Hibs to do as well, esp as we seem keen to espouse our ‘community’ connections. Yet as it stands we seem reluctant to formally include the community of girls and women that already represent Hibernian into the football club.

As for the Op I’m not sure it’s a zero sum game. The rise and rise of girls playing football can also benefit the men’s senior teams as well. The fact the girls can aspire to play for their own club and country as well as dream of being professionals in their own right only encourages them to have an interest in the game as a whole. That means more of them want to see the men’s team play and the fan base of the club gets bigger by their involvement.

So I think it’s short sighted to see the women’s game as a challenge to the men’s game, it should be seen as an opportunity to bring more people into the game and ultimately more girls and women through the turnstiles at ER.
Some good points by you and a couple of others about the potential of awakening more women/girls to following the men's Hibs team as a result of their involvement with the women's game.
My 'fear' is that as the game grows south of the border then it further draws money that could potentially have gone into television or sponsoring the Scottish game. Barclays are basically committed to it now and many other big corporates will follow, we'll likely be left with betting and alcohol companies which will then get banned from sponsorship/advertising knowing our luck!

Edit. Not that I think the womens game should be held back, my daughter will watch and certainly gets an empowerment from seeing successful female athletes of all disciplines,definitely enjoys the success of the Hibs women

Brightside
23-03-2019, 07:43 AM
Some good points by you and a couple of others about the potential of awakening more women/girls to following the men's Hibs team as a result of their involvement with the women's game.
My 'fear' is that as the game grows south of the border then it further draws money that could potentially have gone into television or sponsoring the Scottish game. Barclays are basically committed to it now and many other big corporates will follow, we'll likely be left with betting and alcohol companies which will then get banned from sponsorship/advertising knowing our luck!

Edit. Not that I think the womens game should be held back, my daughter will watch and certainly gets an empowerment from seeing successful female athletes of all disciplines,definitely enjoys the success of the Hibs women

The fear is shared by many in the scottish game. Any girl in scottish football who is showing ability is quickly being signed up by agencies and punted around the english clubs. The Hearts announcement is smoke and mirrors - all they are doing is using the same facilities as the boys and the same coaching guidelines. The same thing already happens at Hibs. The problem Hibs have is the persistence to keep the womens game separate and ran under the charity arm of the club. They are still treated as the poor cousins of the football club and that has to change.

Pretty Boy
23-03-2019, 07:49 AM
The fear is shared by many in the scottish game. Any girl in scottish football who is showing ability is quickly being signed up by agencies and punted around the english clubs. The Hearts announcement is smoke and mirrors - all they are doing is using the same facilities as the boys and the same coaching guidelines. The same thing already happens at Hibs. The problem Hibs have is the persistence to keep the womens game separate and ran under the charity arm of the club. They are still treated as the poor cousins of the football club and that has to change.

Part of the problem at Hibs is the women are unable to go out and source their own sponsorship or funding. They are tied into the Marathon Bet, Macron etc etc deal but almost none of the financial reward from that makes it way to them.

I understand why some would be unhappy if money that could be spent on the men's team was diverted away but the flip side of that is the women's team are unable to 'stand on their own two feet' in terms of income because of the commercial contracts at the club.

I_Love_Latapy
23-03-2019, 08:11 AM
It’s a false dichotomy.

The far bigger issue is the ever increasing concentration of resources among a decreasing number of elite European clubs.

Until we find a way to stop this and start redistributing money properly across the game Scottish football in all its forms will continue to fall further and further behind.

Absolutely this.
If you side-step sexist nonsense, the growth of the women’s game in Scotland IMHO likely to have a positive impact on the game for all reasons given by multiple posters. The real competition for funding comes from the mega clubs. Because of this there may well be decisions made by media companies to support fast growing sports that reach out to new audiences for them. Answer for Scottish football is to make sure ‘product’ (ugh) is good which does not mean losing the visceral edge but does mean cleaning up its act as discussed on other posts.

2016-05-21
23-03-2019, 08:30 AM
The fear is shared by many in the scottish game. Any girl in scottish football who is showing ability is quickly being signed up by agencies and punted around the english clubs. The Hearts announcement is smoke and mirrors - all they are doing is using the same facilities as the boys and the same coaching guidelines. The same thing already happens at Hibs. The problem Hibs have is the persistence to keep the womens game separate and ran under the charity arm of the club. They are still treated as the poor cousins of the football club and that has to change.

What are you suggesting? They get part of our income? Money from our season ticket sales? That should never happen. They need to generate their own income. It’s hard enough competing at our level, without donating money to a women’s team.

danhibees1875
23-03-2019, 08:40 AM
What are you suggesting? They get part of our income? Money from our season ticket sales? That should never happen. They need to generate their own income. It’s hard enough competing at our level, without donating money to a women’s team.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to get a portion of the sponsorship income given PB's comments about shirt sponsorship (hadn't considered that before).

I don't think they should get ST/gate money, but I wonder if there's more we can do to help promote their game and help them to generate their own money better.

Keith_M
23-03-2019, 09:08 AM
I'm a bit confused why people think that existing clubs should be subsidising Women's football.

Surely if it's a viable commercial business, they would survive in their own right.

Brightside
23-03-2019, 09:11 AM
I'm a bit confused why people think that existing clubs should be subsidising Women's football.

Surely if it's a viable commercial business, they would survive in their own right.

It’s how the game has grown in other countries. But I realise it won’t happen any time soon in Scotland. This country is struggling to keep its men’s teams going.

But there is a reason that there are Hibs and Hearts women’s team. There is an emotional link to parent clubs and that’s a benefit to those parent clubs.

Ozymandias
23-03-2019, 09:26 AM
I'm a bit confused why people think that existing clubs should be subsidising Women's football.

Surely if it's a viable commercial business, they would survive in their own right.

At a very basic commercial level, it makes sense to create an environment that attracts people to the club. A relatively small investment results - directly - in longer term sustained income. If you attract as few as ten girls to as few as ten games a season, with an adult its not unreasonable to think that could drop £3-5,000 into the coffers that would not otherwise have been there. It is less a case of why should clubs invest in the womens side, more a case if why on earth wouldn't they?
And for the record I am not suggesting equal pay, but a sensible and coordinated integration that gives benefit everywhere.

Brightside
23-03-2019, 09:28 AM
At a very basic commercial level, it makes sense to create an environment that attracts people to the club. A relatively small investment results - directly - in longer term sustained income. If you attract as few as ten girls to as few as ten games a season, with an adult its not unreasonable to think that could drop £3-5,000 into the coffers that would not otherwise have been there. It is less a case of why should clubs invest in the womens side, more a case if why on earth wouldn't they?
And for the record I am not suggesting equal pay, but a sensible and coordinated integration that gives benefit everywhere.

Agreed. It’s better for all to try and find an attractive solution rather than the stock answer of Tough **** they should be forced to do it on their own.

JimBHibees
23-03-2019, 09:43 AM
At a very basic commercial level, it makes sense to create an environment that attracts people to the club. A relatively small investment results - directly - in longer term sustained income. If you attract as few as ten girls to as few as ten games a season, with an adult its not unreasonable to think that could drop £3-5,000 into the coffers that would not otherwise have been there. It is less a case of why should clubs invest in the womens side, more a case if why on earth wouldn't they?
And for the record I am not suggesting equal pay, but a sensible and coordinated integration that gives benefit everywhere.

Makes sense more girls playing the game so clubs should be trying to get more to attend with their families. Good pr for the club and can have economic benefits also. Makes the club more inclusive and welcoming which is why the recent fans incidents need to be dealt with and a safe environment provided for all.

Eyrie
23-03-2019, 11:19 AM
The women's game is trying to get away from alcohol and gambling sponsorships as part of its drive to present a family-friendly face.

That could present a problem when Hibs look for a new sponsor, as our Ladies team may need to find a different sponsor. So it's up to the club's commercial department to find an alternative which, given the success of our team, shouldn't be difficult as the sums involved won't be large. Improved media coverage will help here as well.

BBC Alba televising live games is an example of this. They're showing the Ladies game on Friday evening against Glasgow City, but frustratingly that clashes with BT Sport showing the trip to Livingston. The viewing figures on Alba and attendance against Glasgow City would both be better if the clash had been avoided when re-arranging the game for TV. Very few Hibs fans will choose the ladies game over the mens.

I'm one of those who won't. I'll watch the Livingston trip live and record the visit of Glasgow City to watch immediately afterwards. Just need to stay off Twitter to avoid the score in the latter game.

RyeSloan
23-03-2019, 12:36 PM
The fear is shared by many in the scottish game. Any girl in scottish football who is showing ability is quickly being signed up by agencies and punted around the english clubs. The Hearts announcement is smoke and mirrors - all they are doing is using the same facilities as the boys and the same coaching guidelines. The same thing already happens at Hibs. The problem Hibs have is the persistence to keep the womens game separate and ran under the charity arm of the club. They are still treated as the poor cousins of the football club and that has to change.

Agree with most of this but the Hearts announcement, while definitely spun to the max, is more than just smoke and mirrors. Budge has pledged significant funding to the woman’s team and girls set up which includes the use of the Oriam for all their teams (a direct cost Hibs don’t have to bear of course) as well as more coaches etc. They really are making a push to make the woman’s / girls set up as an integral part of the football club rather than a subsidiary or associated venture.

I know many won’t agree that this is an approach that Hibs should follow and Hibs ladies as well as the girls teams are already very well regarded without it but it does look and feel like a very inclusive way forward that is designed to them build a lot of grass roots support and loyalty in the long run.

Malthibby
23-03-2019, 05:12 PM
At a very basic commercial level, it makes sense to create an environment that attracts people to the club. A relatively small investment results - directly - in longer term sustained income. If you attract as few as ten girls to as few as ten games a season, with an adult its not unreasonable to think that could drop £3-5,000 into the coffers that would not otherwise have been there. It is less a case of why should clubs invest in the womens side, more a case if why on earth wouldn't they?
And for the record I am not suggesting equal pay, but a sensible and coordinated integration that gives benefit everywhere.

I also believe in the club spending to help the women's team develop and it's a no-brainer for me that women's footie also brings in more interest and bums on seats to the men's team as a side effect.
They're called Hibs, they wear Hibs shirts; we should be supporting them.
GG

Oscar T Grouch
24-03-2019, 01:28 PM
Hibs ladies coasting it against Stirling Uni in the quarter finals of the women’s Scottish Cup at the moment. 5-0 so far. Mon the ladies.

Oscar T Grouch
24-03-2019, 02:07 PM
Final score 0-6 to the Hibs Ladies, onward to yet another semi final
:flag:

cabbageandribs1875
24-03-2019, 08:58 PM
Juventus women beat Fiorentina 1-0 in front of a capacity 39,000 today, a record for a women's game in italy, although tickets were free


last weekend 60, 739 watched Barcelona beat Real Madrid 2-0, a record for a top-flight domestic women's game in Europe



impressive

Renfrew_Hibby
24-03-2019, 11:43 PM
Juventus women beat Fiorentina 1-0 in front of a capacity 39,000 today, a record for a women's game in italy, although tickets were free


last weekend 60, 739 watched Barcelona beat Real Madrid 2-0, a record for a top-flight domestic women's game in Europe



impressive

Think it was Atletico Barca were playing. Still impressive though.

hibsbollah
25-03-2019, 11:22 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/mar/25/arsenal-under-12-girls-boys-equal-footing

This is the reality. I agree that talking about 'quality' of football is irrelevant in talking about how both sports develop. But the quality gap itself is not as wide as some on the Jurassic wing of the argument like to make out.

I was watching a game yesterday between Pele 2007 kids, the top level at their age group. There was a girl playing who easily holds her own (NO, don't do it) with the best boys at her own age. Physically, athletically, technically. If teams like Arsenal continue to have mixed training sessions for youngsters as they go into the eleven a side game, the gap will continue to narrow. Some of the womens games I catch five minutes of at the Oriam are very high standard indeed.

RIP
25-03-2019, 02:40 PM
The women’s game is already having a huge impact on the number of young coaches coming through the ranks. My nephew Callum is coaching Celtic U13 girls and my son Cammy has just started coaching Edinburgh South U11 girls. My niece Lyndsey, 23 has played football for the past 16 years and may yet take on a coaching role.

cabbageandribs1875
25-03-2019, 07:38 PM
Think it was Atletico Barca were playing. Still impressive though.



it was indeed :agree: and the previous record was just several weeks ago...


The attendance shattered the previous European record of 48,121 who watched Athletic Bilbao's women's team play Atletico in a Copa del Rey match in Bilbao in January.