The disappearance of Madeleine McCann

[matty_f]

Almost as one sided and biased as that Netflix documentary you use as your main point of reference, Matty. I am not funded by the McCanns though. Out of interest have you read Amaral's book, or anything else yet?

Feel free to debunk anything I said, using source material such as the PJ Files. :greengrin

"I think" or "it just couldn't happen" is not really worth a jot.

One thing I really struggle with is how the abductor got in and out in the time window available without being spotted and without leaving any forensic trace

When you say the Netflix documentary is one sided, whose side doors out favour?

The McCanns themselves wanted nothing to do with it and were rumoured to have asked friends not to appear.

They didn’t instruct their lawyers to intervene with any claims or aspects so they exercised no editorial restrictions and from memory, the documentary deals with speculation that the McCanns were involved.

Why would the view point have been one sided?

[HappyAsHellas]

Amaral seems genuinely upset that justice for Madeline seems to have taken a back seat. There are some fundamental questions that need answering and he's annoyed that the evidence is enough to convict in the UK, but not Portugal which raises the question as to why we haven't ever brought them in for questioning. I smell politics and bull in equal amounts, but without the McCanns having to answer some pretty basic questions nothing will ever happen. The Irish family have stated that it was McCann who they seen walking while carrying a little girl on the night in question, but were told to report it to their local police only? The more you dig, the worse it gets.

[Cataplana]

Amaral seems genuinely upset that justice for Madeline seems to have taken a back seat. There are some fundamental questions that need answering and he's annoyed that the evidence is enough to convict in the UK, but not Portugal which raises the question as to why we haven't ever brought them in for questioning. I smell politics and bull in equal amounts, but without the McCanns having to answer some pretty basic questions nothing will ever happen. The Irish family have stated that it was McCann who they seen walking while carrying a little girl on the night in question, but were told to report it to their local police only? The more you dig, the worse it gets.

He passed up the chance to do them for damages.

There are far too many red flags and unanswered questions just to take a Pollyanna approach.

I never understood why they were allowed to leave Portugal , but Portugal's failure to get them back after the Smith sighting came to attention, snacks of politics

I don't know what happened, but if unanswered questions were addressed, I'm sure there would be a conclusion.

[Cataplana]

When you say the Netflix documentary is one sided, whose side doors out favour?

The McCanns themselves wanted nothing to do with it and were rumoured to have asked friends not to appear.

They didn’t instruct their lawyers to intervene with any claims or aspects so they exercised no editorial restrictions and from memory, the documentary deals with speculation that the McCanns were involved.

Why would the view point have been one sided?

I'd say it favours the McCanns in that it perpetuates the falsehoods they have been promoting right from the start. The majority of the participants are pro McCann shills, such Jon Clarke, proprietor of Olive Press, or Brian Kennedy for example.

They allowed the lies about the performance of the Portuguese police, and the validity of Cadaver dog investigation to continue. They didn't flag up that the McCanns ignored any feedback from their investigators that didn't fit their narrative, hence over emphasis on Morrocco, but ignoring "sitings" in Malta.

Brian Kennedy had a whole episode devoted to him, and you have to wonder why he was given so much prominence.

It would also have been interesting to flag up that the official Find Madeleine web page continues to show the picture of a supposed abductor, who had since been traced, as someone they would like to find

They say that it hasn't been proved conclusively that he was the nan Jane Tanner saw. They also play down the siting by the Smith family, and the identikit picture of a man who looks very like Gerry.

But, we've been over all this before, so why bother? The thread started in response to the Netflix films, all I have tried to do is point out the lies in them.

If you can tell me how the abductor managed to do the deed in a 2 minute window, including climbing out of a window that isn't wide enough for a grown man, while carrying a child in one arm, and without leaving any fibres, I might start to question my beliefs.

Good talking to you as always M, and again thank you for discussing it a reasonable way. We might not agree on this, but your civility is appreciated.

[Jakhog1]

Good on you for the detailed analysis of this case, have enjoyed reading discussions from all sides on this, I always thought that there was something not quite right with the supposed abduction of getting in and out of a fairly high window without as you say any evidence, could possible abductor left through any doors?, Also when dogs picked up scent from toy that was in new place they where staying at, there is loads of red flags in this case that don't feel quite right, it's such a shame that no one has yet been held responsible and made accountable for the disappearance of this little girl
I'd say it favours the McCanns in that it perpetuates the falsehoods they have been promoting right from the start. The majority of the participants are pro McCann shills, such Jon Clarke, proprietor of Olive Press, or Brian Kennedy for example.

They allowed the lies about the performance of the Portuguese police, and the validity of Cadaver dog investigation to continue. They didn't flag up that the McCanns ignored any feedback from their investigators that didn't fit their narrative, hence over emphasis on Morrocco, but ignoring "sitings" in Malta.

Brian Kennedy had a whole episode devoted to him, and you have to wonder why he was given so much prominence.

It would also have been interesting to flag up that the official Find Madeleine web page continues to show the picture of a supposed abductor, who had since been traced, as someone they would like to find

They say that it hasn't been proved conclusively that he was the nan Jane Tanner saw. They also play down the siting by the Smith family, and the identikit picture of a man who looks very like Gerry.

But, we've been over all this before, so why bother? The thread started in response to the Netflix films, all I have tried to do is point out the lies in them.

If you can tell me how the abductor managed to do the deed in a 2 minute window, including climbing out of a window that isn't wide enough for a grown man, while carrying a child in one arm, and without leaving any fibres, I might start to question my beliefs.

Good talking to you as always M, and again thank you for discussing it a reasonable way. We might not agree on this, but your civility is appreciated.

[Cataplana]

Good on you for the detailed analysis of this case, have enjoyed reading discussions from all sides on this, I always thought that there was something not quite right with the supposed abduction of getting in and out of a fairly high window without as you say any evidence, could possible abductor left through any doors?, Also when dogs picked up scent from toy that was in new place they where staying at, there is loads of red flags in this case that don't feel quite right, it's such a shame that no one has yet been held responsible and made accountable for the disappearance of this little girl

Thanks, I wouldn't say I have given a detailed analysis, as such, merely tried to point out that I think there is enough to justify further investigation. The explanations that are given for these red flags just aren't credible.

Things like, a trained anaesthetist getting no response from the remaining children, and failing to have them checked over, yet saying later she thought they had been drugged.

Unless you knew what they had been drugged with, or what dose, you would be duty bound to get them to a hospital pronto. Remember, she wasn't the only doctor on the scene, most of the party were doctors.

If the explanation for that was that they panicked and weren't thinking clearly, then it's a case for the British Medical Association, about fitness to practice.

[Jakhog1]

That was the thing that so many people came in and out of the room and the children did not respond, I find it extremely disturbing that British press always claiming that they are closing in on suspects and have people responsible in their sights, which to me is very misleading, also I it's refreshing to see as someone pointed out earlier your investigation into the case, hard to argue some of the points you have made, what are the most important facts as you see regarding the case of what may have happened
Thanks, I wouldn't say I have given a detailed analysis, as such, merely tried to point out that I think there is enough to justify further investigation. The explanations that are given for these red flags just aren't credible.

Things like, a trained anaesthetist getting no response from the remaining children, and failing to have them checked over, yet saying later she thought they had been drugged.

Unless you knew what they had been drugged with, or what dose, you would be duty bound to get them to a hospital pronto. Remember, she wasn't the only doctor on the scene, most of the party were doctors.

If the explanation for that was that they panicked and weren't thinking clearly, then it's a case for the British Medical Association, about fitness to practice.

[Cataplana]

That was the thing that so many people came in and out of the room and the children did not respond, I find it extremely disturbing that British press always claiming that they are closing in on suspects and have people responsible in their sights, which to me is very misleading, also I it's refreshing to see as someone pointed out earlier your investigation into the case, hard to argue some of the points you have made, what are the most important facts as you see regarding the case of what may have happened

I think the most important questions that need to be answered are: proof that an abduction happened; what is the significance of the alerts from the cadaver dogs; and, whose DNA was found in the hire car.

After that, it's a case of the 48 questions that Kate refused to answer. I can't understand how any mother looking for her child would not co operate fully with the police officers who were trying to find her.

(https://theukdatabase.net/uk-child-abusers-named-and-shamed/calls-for-change-in-law/corruption/48-questions-kate-mccann-wouldnt-answer/)Sadly, I think that the truth will only come out in many years time, when all the main players are dead, and the government releases secret papers that will currently have a time bar on them.

Meantime we have Amaral's book, which eventually will be available for sale in the UK. The McCanns latest stalling technique, suing Portugal at the European Court of Human Rights, appears to be yet another expensive folly that is going to diminish the fund and impact on their ability to gag people who ask awkward questions.

[Jakhog1]

Thanks again for the response and links into the case, will spend some to me going over them, I don't think there has been a case quite like this and has so much more questions than answers, I think it's important for people to ask difficult questions and to query absolutely everything as at the end of the day a little girl went missing and not one person has had to answer to it, thanks again
I think the most important questions that need to be answered are: proof that an abduction happened; what is the significance of the alerts from the cadaver dogs; and, whose DNA was found in the hire car.

After that, it's a case of the 48 questions that Kate refused to answer. I can't understand how any mother looking for her child would not co operate fully with the police officers who were trying to find her.

(https://theukdatabase.net/uk-child-abusers-named-and-shamed/calls-for-change-in-law/corruption/48-questions-kate-mccann-wouldnt-answer/)Sadly, I think that the truth will only come out in many years time, when all the main players are dead, and the government releases secret papers that will currently have a time bar on them.

Meantime we have Amaral's book, which eventually will be available for sale in the UK. The McCanns latest stalling technique, suing Portugal at the European Court of Human Rights, appears to be yet another expensive folly that is going to diminish the fund and impact on their ability to gag people who ask awkward questions.

[Cataplana]

Thanks again for the response and links into the case, will spend some to me going over them, I don't think there has been a case quite like this and has so much more questions than answers, I think it's important for people to ask difficult questions and to query absolutely everything as at the end of the day a little girl went missing and not one person has had to answer to it, thanks again

There's certainly plenty of stuff out there. Good luck.

[Jakhog1]

Just read the 48 questions that was not answered, as a parent myself to a child the same age when Maddie went missing, I would want to eliminate myself and help the authorities as much as possible to get them finding out who took my child, I would not hesitate and find it strange you would not answer, to me it seems her guard is up and it may be with her being a doctor that she is very cold and calculated, they were very valid questions and what one would expect to hear in an investigation, what stood out the most is not shouting for help and running back to the tapas bar to raise the alarm.
There's certainly plenty of stuff out there. Good luck.

[Cataplana]

Just read the 48 questions that was not answered, as a parent myself to a child the same age when Maddie went missing, I would want to eliminate myself and help the authorities as much as possible to get them finding out who took my child, I would not hesitate and find it strange you would not answer, to me it seems her guard is up and it may be with her being a doctor that she is very cold and calculated, they were very valid questions and what one would expect to hear in an investigation, what stood out the most is not shouting for help and running back to the tapas bar to raise the alarm.

Answering the questions would have prevented a whole lot of speculation. Can't imagine them getting away with that in this country.

[BigKev]

Shoot, I thought this had gone to sleep. What you playing at poking my conspiracy theory paranoia into action?

Without published accounts for the fund, or any transparency as to what they are doing to look, it's impossible to say whether they have maintained funding.

Edit: the last paragraph is bollocks, published accounts are available here: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06248215/filing-history They appear to show around 832k available.

What is known is that the intention of the fund was to cover "legal fees", and they launched a disastrous defamation action against the detective who dared to question their version of events.

(https://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/2009/06/chapter-1.html)They had not anticipated that Portugal would release all of the official files to the public (http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/), and he merely repeated the hypothesis the Portuguese police had reached. This led to a very vicious campaign by "the fund" to discredit this man, and financially ruin him.

Justice was served when the Portuguese Supreme Court said there was nothing false about his book, and also made the clear point that the McCanns have not been cleared of anything at this stage.

They also used it to cover their mortgage costs, and to hire dodgy private detectives in the early days .

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/madeleine-mccann-and-metodo-3-private-eyes-public-lies-xptdh0lttlw

Many speculate that the money has been spent on maintaining their campaign to ensure the story is reported they way they want it. They paid Bell Pottinger 500,000 to keep the story on the front page of the papers for a year.

On the other hand, Brian Kennedy (https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/in-full/rumour-mill-brian-kennedy-ronny-deila-prince-buaben-1-3583802) appears to have bottomless pockets. Charitable funds have been used as money laundering tools in the past, but he is not into that sort of thing, I believe.

None of this makes them guilty of anything, of course. Although I have yet to read anything that backs their version of events that doesn't belong in the realms of the Brothers Grimm, or Walt Disney.

The theory that there was an abduction is yet to be proved, and the only evidence that there was is the word of the two people who would normally be prime suspects .

But, it wasn't them, because they have never been charged with anything. The DNA evidence, and the alerts of Cadaver dogs is unreliable (source: G. McCann). etc

It's a total mystery whether they have been assisted by the British government in avoiding charges in Portugal. I prefer to believe that the cops there eat four hour lunches, are too drunk to organise searches, and fit up honest, hard working, middle class professionals for crimes they didn't commit, rather than rounding up the usual gypsy, dodgy looking crooks that hang about on every corner in Portugal.

ps Everything the British press publish is a lie. (Well worth a read if you get a chance.)


(http://www.lulu.com/shop/paulo-reis/the-mccanns-war/paperback/product-24134465.html)

Pretty scathing reviews of the last link you published. A conspiracy theorists dream by the looks of it.

[Cataplana]

Pretty scathing reviews of the last link you published. A conspiracy theorists dream by the looks of it.

Yeah, I read the reviews, including the positive one. The facts in the book are well researched and objectively presented, from where I stand with the databases he used and the methodology explained.

I suppose it makes me a conspiracy theorist to suggest that the reviews were posted maliciously? They appear to be about rubbishing the character of the person who wrote the book, rather than questioning the facts in it.

Now, where have we seen that before? Playing the man, rather than the ball?

Well, that's exactly what they did to Amaral. "I hope to ruin him, and make him suffer."

"Reis is deranged. This surely is not the actions of someone who claims to be a journalist? No, it's the action of a sick and desperate con artist."

You know this how?

"This guy has been outed as a conman and a liar, he rips off material from other people and passes it off as his own, then threatens to kill the original auther."

Outed by who?
To be honest I am more embarrassed about the link I provided to the 48 questions. That does appear to be a conspiracy theorist infested website.

At the end of the day though, they are the same questions that are in the official Portuguese files. Just because a nut job tells you something, it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Like, if the Portuguese Police say that a search party of over 150 men combed the area in the early hours of May 4th, and were joined by sniffer dogs from Lisbon, later that morning; yet, the British press state that Kate and Gerry searched alone and got no help whatsoever, who do you believe?

The prime suspects, or a crazy conspiracy theorist. Up to you.

[matty_f]

Answering the questions would have prevented a whole lot of speculation. Can't imagine them getting away with that in this country.

I think I'm right in saying that this was covered earlier in the thread, and that Kate did answer the questions before refusing to answer them later?

[Cataplana]

I think I'm right in saying that this was covered earlier in the thread, and that Kate did answer the questions before refusing to answer them later?

Not these specific questions which were put to her as an arguida, and after British police advised that cadaver dog searches would be a good idea.

She and her husband fled Portugal the day after.

If she told the truth the first time, then it surely wouldn't be that big a challenge to tell it a second time. Police forces all over the world use this technique to eliminate suspects.

If you read the questions, many of them relate to inconsistencies with what was found out subsequent to initial statements, and what was said at the time.

[Cataplana]

Missing person, story doesn't stack up, police get suspicious. Where have I heard that before. :)

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scot-arrested-after-faking-own-death-in-us-to-escape-rape-charges-1-4972254

[bigwheel]

Missing person, story doesn't stack up, police get suspicious. Where have I heard that before. :)

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scot-arrested-after-faking-own-death-in-us-to-escape-rape-charges-1-4972254

What an unhelpful and lightly ludicrous comparison ....doesn’t do your serious analysis and challenging questions any service..

[Cataplana]

What an unhelpful and lightly ludicrous comparison ....doesn’t do your serious analysis and challenging questions any service..

Why do you say that? Explain why it is unhelpful and ludicrous.

Edit: It would be manners to reply to questions which ask you to explain your position.

My original point was that people construct stories about missing persons, which the police subsequently prove are not true. It is usually because the accounts of witnesses do not tie up, as shown in the McCann case.

[Cataplana]

Interesting article from Ireland, that makes you wonder exactly what is going on. Concerns the Smith family spotting a man carrying a child at the time of the disappearance.

Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?

[Cataplana]

Interesting article from Ireland, that makes you wonder exactly what is going on. Concerns the Smith family spotting a man carrying a child at the time of the disappearance.

Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2018/02/maddie-did-the-bbc-bend-the-truth/

[matty_f]

Missing person, story doesn't stack up, police get suspicious. Where have I heard that before. :)

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scot-arrested-after-faking-own-death-in-us-to-escape-rape-charges-1-4972254

Doesn’t this weaken the argument that it was the McCanns, though, if you’re using it as a comparison?

In this case, police noticed inconsistencies, investigated, uncovered the truth and solved the case quite quickly - presumably with significantly less resources available to them than all the police forces involved in the McCann case.

If anything, this shows that simply disappearing someone - in this case someone who wanted to disappear and with only two people being involved - is not easy to get away with.

[matty_f]

Interesting article from Ireland, that makes you wonder exactly what is going on. Concerns the Smith family spotting a man carrying a child at the time of the disappearance.

Maddie: Did the BBC bend the truth?

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2018/02/maddie-did-the-bbc-bend-the-truth/

Bend the truth, lie, make a mistake - could be any of those but depending on how it’s framed will influence people’s thinking.

I note that the article also claims several mistakes with the Portuguese police investigation.

[Cataplana]

Bend the truth, lie, make a mistake - could be any of those but depending on how it’s framed will influence people’s thinking.

I note that the article also claims several mistakes with the Portuguese police investigation.

"the Portuguese investigation was littered with failings and best practice in cases like this dictates it is always important to eliminate those closest to the child first"

I wish they would say what those failings were. Best practice says that the parents should be excluded, and it appears that wasn't done. Amaral says that they should have gone harder on the parents. If the "failings" are those highlighted in the documentary, we have already established that they didn't happen at all, and were a product of the parents' spin doctors' imagination.

"The McCanns say they gave these pictures to the police at the time but chose not to publicise them."

The Leicestershire Police held the pictures back, not the Portuguese.

Point taken as to the real motivation of the BBC in repeating a falsehood, they have said it was an error, and we have to take their word. Pretty significant error in telling the story though, just as Netflix also broadcast several "errors."

[Bridge hibs]

I see there is a lassie claiming she is Maddie, also saying she has same mark on her eye

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-claiming-madeleine-mccann-reveals-29248897.amp

[Jakhog1]

I see there is a lassie claiming she is Maddie, also saying she has same mark on her eye

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-claiming-madeleine-mccann-reveals-29248897.amp

Seen that earlier, don't think it's her but at the same token the young lassie is troubled and needs help, obviously had a horrific childhood, do not think it is for clout or to have her five minutes of fame on social media, lassie seems genuine in her intentions.

[J-C]

Seen that earlier, don't think it's her but at the same token the young lassie is troubled and needs help, obviously had a horrific childhood, do not think it is for clout or to have her five minutes of fame on social media, lassie seems genuine in her intentions.

DNA test proves it, simple.

[Jakhog1]

DNA test proves it, simple.

It's that easy, would they know if it was their Daughter after not seeing her for so long, would be the most amazing story if it was Madeline, unfortunately I just don't think it is, hope I am wrong.

[neil7908]

I see there is a lassie claiming she is Maddie, also saying she has same mark on her eye

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-claiming-madeleine-mccann-reveals-29248897.amp

This is just horrific. With all the terrible ghouls appearing around Nicola Bulleys disappearance, I really dispare at the state of the world.

[J-C]

Seemingly the McCann's are wanting a DNA test done. We cannot just assume this lassie is at it, she also wants a DNA test done. Something happened that night, was the wee lassie stolen to order.

[Bridge hibs]

Seemingly the McCann's are wanting a DNA test done. We cannot just assume this lassie is at it, she also wants a DNA test done. Something happened that night, was the wee lassie stolen to order.

Was this not similar to the young lad Ben Needham when a few years ago a lad came forward to say he was Ben, apologies if not correct as it was so long ago

[heretoday]

This is just horrific. With all the terrible ghouls appearing around Nicola Bulleys disappearance, I really dispare at the state of the world.

Yeah there's a few on these boards too.

[Bristolhibby]

Seemingly the McCann's are wanting a DNA test done. We cannot just assume this lassie is at it, she also wants a DNA test done. Something happened that night, was the wee lassie stolen to order.

Seems this one can be cleared up in a matter of days.

She at it, or is Madeline.

J

[Jakhog1]

Seems this one can be cleared up in a matter of days.

She at it, or is Madeline.

J

She is at it, no doubt now in my mind, she said that she doesn't have a birth certificate, must be easy enough to obtain one I would have thought

[WeeRussell]

She is at it, no doubt now in my mind, she said that she doesn't have a birth certificate, must be easy enough to obtain one I would have thought

I’m not so sure? About the birth certificate bit I mean… Is it not quite likely someone in her position may not be in possession of one and it wouldn’t be that easy or quick to get one? Most likely never had any need for one to date.

[Jay]

She is at it, no doubt now in my mind, she said that she doesn't have a birth certificate, must be easy enough to obtain one I would have thought

Her parents have issued a statement saying she took her birth certificate and photos from the house. Said she's a troubled girl who they've tried to get help for and she always wanted to be 'famous' and popular.

She is her mother's double.in the pics I saw.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

The results are in and confirmation that the woman IS NOT Maddie

[Moulin Yarns]

I am seeing the police are going to search a reservoir in Portugal. What has prompted it after such a long time.

[J-C]

I am seeing the police are going to search a reservoir in Portugal. What has prompted it after such a long time.

The German police, it was on GMB this morning, a guy who was involved in the investigation at the start said if they are doing this then they'll have serious information as they are normally a cautious police force. Remember they have the chief suspect in jail on other charges.