New Zealand Terror Attack

[Sylar]

Utterly horrific news from Christchurch this morning.

40 people dead, as 4 (possibly more) people storm 2 mosques and open fire. Four in custody, but more may still be at large.

Cars were being stopped as they had devices attached to them too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47578798

Utterly harrowing news to wake up to.

[makaveli1875]

What is the world coming to. Utter carnage

[Hibrandenburg]

Madness, utter madness. Men, women and children gunned down in what is one of the most peaceful corners of the world. My heart goes out to those who've lost family and friends. Cycle of hate needs to be broken, but how?

[Pretty Boy]

Crazy.

The constant cycle of 'revenge' for this and that only leads to tragic events like this.

[makaveli1875]

Madness, utter madness. Men, women and children gunned down in what is one of the most peaceful corners of the world. My heart goes out to those who've lost family and friends. Cycle of hate needs to be broken, but how?

As long as there are people out there that are prepared to die or kill a complete stranger for the sake of their beliefs it will never end.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Hows this for a touch of reality? The World is ****ed. Despite us all knowing many lovely humans there are too many ****s and not enough of those in power willing or brave enough to do anything about it. And no I'm not drunk. Just heart sick of this relentless madness. I genuinely see no answer.

[Ozyhibby]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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[blackpoolhibs]

This is horrendous, i have just watched the video where a man just goes through the mosque shooting everyone multiple times to make sure they are dead with a camera attached to his head, it seemed as if i was watching a video game.

A poor woman outside injured calling for help, he just shot her again twice in the head. Then got in his car and drove off over her only to stop a few times to shoot others.

Evil, just evil.

[Speedy]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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Horrible and idiotic. He's putting a target on his (and his state's) back.

[hibsbollah]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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That's absolutely spine chilling. He's basically inciting more of it.

No different to saying Lee Rigby had it coming because of western foreign policy. Shocking.

[Lendo]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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This is LITERALLY the worst thing i have ever read. I actually felt like crying (genuinely) reading that. How can anyone possibly say something like that when men, women and children have just been executed.

[Hibrandenburg]

As long as there are people out there that are prepared to die or kill a complete stranger for the sake of their beliefs it will never end.

As long as people are willing to blame all for the actions of a few then anybody will be considered fair game by nutters on all sides of any conflict. Once more a group of innocent people have paid the price for the actions of a few and the false perception of guilt by association. Whether Manchester, Paris, Christchurch or any other atrocity carried out by extremists, the same sick ideology of guilt by association is the thread that connects them all.

[Hibrandenburg]

This is LITERALLY the worst thing i have ever read. I actually felt like crying (genuinely) reading that. How can anyone possibly say something like that when men, women and children have just been executed.

Absolutely stomach turning, I fear there will be worse to come.

[Mr Grieves]

Horrific.

This is an interesting piece about the media and politicians role in the rise of white nationalism.

https://amp.smh.com.au/national/white-broken-men-the-20190315-p514ml.html?__twitter_impression=true


Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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What an absolute ****.

[Rocky]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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I didn't think the news could get any worse till I read that. Absolutely horrific stuff.

[Speedy]

This is LITERALLY the worst thing i have ever read. I actually felt like crying (genuinely) reading that. How can anyone possibly say something like that when men, women and children have just been executed.

He seems to have form for that sort of stuff.

[Bangkok Hibby]

As long as people are willing to blame all for the actions of a few then anybody will be considered fair game by nutters on all sides of any conflict. Once more a group of innocent people have paid the price for the actions of a few and the false perception of guilt by association. Whether Manchester, Paris, Christchurch or any other atrocity carried out by extremists, the same sick ideology of guilt by association is the thread that connects them all.

Not saying you're wrong but do you, I, or any politician you know have the answers?
For me we must evolve to the point where we all understand religion is nonsense. Will it ever happen? I doubt it

[HiBremian]

Horrific.

This is an interesting piece about the media and politicians role in the rise of white nationalism.

https://amp.smh.com.au/national/white-broken-men-the-20190315-p514ml.html?__twitter_impression=true



What an absolute ****.

Horrible. My heart sank this morning when I caught up with the news. And in New Zealand of all places.

That article reminds me of the nutters I’ve recently encountered and argued with on social media around Brexit. Their base position is that I’m a “serf” of an EU that is enabling an islamic takeover of Europe. Their language is violent, and a small step away from this tragedy. YouTube, Facebook, Twitter need to up their game pronto and make online identities much more transparent.


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[ronaldo7]

49 now dead. Absolutely despicable behavior.

[Ozyhibby]

Horrible. My heart sank this morning when I caught up with the news. And in New Zealand of all places.

That article reminds me of the nutters I’ve recently encountered and argued with on social media around Brexit. Their base position is that I’m a “serf” of an EU that is enabling an islamic takeover of Europe. Their language is violent, and a small step away from this tragedy. YouTube, Facebook, Twitter need to up their game pronto and make online identities much more transparent.


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Facebook live-streamed the attack. If a broadcaster did this people would be sent to jail.


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[Benny Brazil]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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Speechless at that - to then quote from the bible to justify the attacks whilst criticising Islamic fanatics

[DaveF]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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Can't quite believe I just read that. He should booted out of office asap. Democracy and free speech can take a back seat as far as this arse is concerned.

What a disgrace.

[Sylar]

It's amazing that Twitter continue to provied a platform to "Senator" Anning. His posts are absolutely littered with racism, xenophobia, anti-religious hatred and inciting violence. Yet he continues to post freely - since this shooting has occured, not only has he released that horrific statement but he's also been tweeting about Islamic terror attacks asking "left wing media" to condemn these historical events.

The man is a ****. ****. ****. ****.

Him and his ilk need removed from any and all positions of power.

[weecounty hibby]

My heart goes out to all who have been effected by this tragedy. And the Australian senator who wrote that nonsense should lose his job. Free speech is one thing but he is basically justifying mass murder and in fact seems to be condoning and encouraging it.

[Bangkok Hibby]

These hand wringing, angry, outraged posts are appearing all over the world right now. Whats the point? Our anger means nothing...nothing...NOTHING!
Does anyone have the answer? Anger gets us nowhere.

[lapsedhibee]

That article reminds me of the nutters I’ve recently encountered and argued with on social media around Brexit. Their base position is that I’m a “serf” of an EU that is enabling an islamic takeover of Europe. Their language is violent, and a small step away from this tragedy. YouTube, Facebook, Twitter need to up their game pronto and make online identities much more transparent.

It's not just on social media. The MSM regularly gives a platform to people from the ERG talking about "betraying 17.4 million people" when other people merely have a different opinion to them. BBC/SKY should be calling them out on the ridiculous hyperbole. Tone it all down ffs.

[Smartie]

These hand wringing, angry, outraged posts are appearing all over the world right now. Whats the point? Our anger means nothing...nothing...NOTHING!
Does anyone have the answer? Anger gets us nowhere.

Anger gets you everywhere as long as it is acknowledged and acted upon.

Apathy gets you nowhere.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Anger gets you everywhere as long as it is acknowledged and acted upon.

Apathy gets you nowhere.

Yes. So do you detect any actions which will stop this?

[Mantis Toboggan]

Yes. So do you detect any actions which will stop this?

Obviously thats a really hard question to answer, but what is definitely not the answer is just accepting it.

Re the Senators statement - got to be the worst thing I have ever seen from an elected official. The irony of the bible quote is telling.

[danhibees1875]

These hand wringing, angry, outraged posts are appearing all over the world right now. Whats the point? Our anger means nothing...nothing...NOTHING!
Does anyone have the answer? Anger gets us nowhere.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting here? Unless someone has a solution that will bring about world peace and posting it on Hibs.net is all that is needed to make it happen then they shouldn't bother posting anything? :confused:

I've, thankfully, not seen the video but it sounds awful. The response from someone in a position of power in Australia is a shocker too. They'll rightly be condemned across the world by people with varying degrees of power/ability to bring about change.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes. So do you detect any actions which will stop this?

You could come off Facebook, YouTube etc until they stop promoting these people. If people do this then advertisers will follow and the sites will change their policies real quick.


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[Bangkok Hibby]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting here? Unless someone has a solution that will bring about world peace and posting it on Hibs.net is all that is needed to make it happen then they shouldn't bother posting anything? :confused:

I've, thankfully, not seen the video but it sounds awful. The response from someone in a position of power in Australia is a shocker too. They'll rightly be condemned across the world by people with varying degrees of power/ability to bring about change.

Hi, world peace is very different from the vast majority of these terrorist attacks which are based on religious beliefs or a hatred of religious beliefs. My suggestion is educate ourselves and evolve from believing in religion and moving on. This isnt impossible as we no longer believe Thor, Odin, Ganesh etc but for the moment improbable, hence my negativity and doubt this will ever stop in our lifetime.
Organised religion as opposed to a belief in a supreme being is regularly used for evil. Nothing will change until this changes.

[blaikie]

Video doing the rounds on Facebook ..... absolutely horrfic, we are destroying the world.

[Bangkok Hibby]

You could come off Facebook, YouTube etc until they stop promoting these people. If people do this then advertisers will follow and the sites will change their policies real quick.


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I meant actions which will stop the violence. Not the reporting.

[Ozyhibby]

I meant actions which will stop the violence. Not the reporting.

This only exists because they have a platform to share their violence. This is how they communicate with each other.


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[Bangkok Hibby]

This only exists because they have a platform to share their violence. This is how they communicate with each other.


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Fundamentalist beliefs in Islam for example do not rely on the internet. Grooming and recruiting does. The big problem the world faces is organised religion

[Smartie]

Fundamentalist beliefs in Islam for example do not rely on the internet. Grooming and recruiting does. The big problem the world faces is organised religion

I wish I had the answers you (and the world are looking for) but I don't, and I don't think they exist.

Some humans are ****bags, always have been and always will be. They will always find ways to commit atrocities on the people they see fit to commit them on.

My solutions?

Don't blame all religion. I'm not a man of faith myself but I know plenty of people who are, including many muslims. They are peaceful and pleasant and just happen to hold a particular opinion about deep philosophical subjects such as why we are here and how we fill in the gaps that our scientific knowledge does not yet explain. I don't hate them, I don't judge them, I let them be.

We need to choose our words wisely and we need to consider the types of language that we consider to be acceptable and unacceptable. I'm not wanting to end free speech but we need to think long and hard about the column inches, air time and credibility we give to hate preachers. Hate speech has encroached on our everyday language and into respectable quarters and it needs banished. I wonder how much horror people I know are REALLY feeling today, those who post facebook links to everything Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins or whoever has to say? It has infected the office of the President of the United States of America and decent people everywhere need to stand up to it. You do not protect your children in this country by hating or standing up to people of another religion.

I don't know much about the gun laws of New Zealand but I don't think that mental illness, entitlement and hatred should be allowed to mingle freely with deadly weapons.


I don't think we'll ever see an end to attacks like this as they are borne of an awful part of human nature.

Those who know better though, could go a long way towards stopping fanning the flames that cause them.

And when they happen? Be angry, be upset, demand action and make sure that the finger of blame points in the right direction.

[JeMeSouviens]

I wonder if anyone will describe the attacker as a "Christian extremist" today.

[Hibernia&Alba]

49 dead. Dear God.

[Hibrandenburg]

I wonder if anyone will describe the attacker as a "Christian extremist" today.

I wonder if the far right will stand up and apologise for the whole of the white christian world who are obviously guilty through association.

[Bangkok Hibby]

I wish I had the answers you (and the world are looking for) but I don't, and I don't think they exist.

Some humans are ****bags, always have been and always will be. They will always find ways to commit atrocities on the people they see fit to commit them on.

My solutions?

Don't blame all religion. I'm not a man of faith myself but I know plenty of people who are, including many muslims. They are peaceful and pleasant and just happen to hold a particular opinion about deep philosophical subjects such as why we are here and how we fill in the gaps that our scientific knowledge does not yet explain. I don't hate them, I don't judge them, I let them be.

We need to choose our words wisely and we need to consider the types of language that we consider to be acceptable and unacceptable. I'm not wanting to end free speech but we need to think long and hard about the column inches, air time and credibility we give to hate preachers. Hate speech has encroached on our everyday language and into respectable quarters and it needs banished. I wonder how much horror people I know are REALLY hurting today, those who post facebook links to everything Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins or whoever has to say? It has infected the office of the President of the United States of America and decent people everywhere need to stand up to it. You do not protect your children in this country by hating or standing up to people of another religion.

I don't know much about the gun laws of New Zealand but I don't think that mental illness, entitlement and hatred should be allowed to mingle freely with deadly weapons.


I don't think we'll ever see an end to attacks like this as they are borne of an awful part of human nature.

Those who know better though, could go a long way towards stopping fanning the flames that cause them.

And when they happen? Be angry, be upset, demand action and make sure that the finger of blame points in the right direction.

Good post and you touch on many points. Humanity, hate speech, gun laws, but you seem to absolve religion by saying you know many nice religious people. As do we all. My point though is about fundamentalist religious believers. They, and their opponents commit terrorist acts. Not the law abiding Muslims, Christians, Jews etc etc we all know. Nothing will change until humanity finally evolves to understand organised religion is a nonsense

[Ozyhibby]

Good post and you touch on many points. Humanity, hate speech, gun laws, but you seem to absolve religion by saying you know many nice religious people. As do we all. My point though is about fundamentalist religious believers. They, and their opponents commit terrorist acts. Not the law abiding Muslims, Christians, Jews etc etc we all know. Nothing will change until humanity finally evolves to understand organised religion is a nonsense

Organised religion would only be replaced by another ideology. Human nature means that we tend to gather in groups of some sort. Your asking the impossible.
Should we evolve to understand that politics is nonsense because of all the violence it brings?


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[stokesmessiah]

Good post and you touch on many points. Humanity, hate speech, gun laws, but you seem to absolve religion by saying you know many nice religious people. As do we all. My point though is about fundamentalist religious believers. They, and their opponents commit terrorist acts. Not the law abiding Muslims, Christians, Jews etc etc we all know. Nothing will change until humanity finally evolves to understand organised religion is a nonsense

I absolutely agree with this. People need to start believing in people.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Organised religion would only be replaced by another ideology. Human nature means that we tend to gather in groups of some sort. Your asking the impossible.
Should we evolve to understand that politics is nonsense because of all the violence it brings?


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Wow...whataboutery at its best!! Ive already said it wont happen in our lifetime but hey lets carry on excusing it cos something else will just come along to replace it.
By the way, politics is real, driven by humans and inter community (nation) interactions. Religion is a faith in the unprovable

[Ozyhibby]

Wow...whataboutery at its best!! Ive already said it wont happen in our lifetime but hey lets carry on excusing it cos something else will just come along to replace it.
By the way, politics is real, driven by humans and inter community (nation) interactions. Religion is a faith in the unprovable

You don’t need to tell me that, I’m an atheist.


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[Smartie]

Wow...whataboutery at its best!! Ive already said it wont happen in our lifetime but hey lets carry on excusing it cos something else will just come along to replace it.
By the way, politics is real, driven by humans and inter community (nation) interactions. Religion is a faith in the unprovable

There are a lot of teachings within religion that are anti-violence. Many people will draw on their faith as a reason NOT to carry out attacks, and to get along with people of all faiths and of none.

Religion is a red herring regarding this New Zealand business. Ok, the victims were of the same faith and were at a place of worship but even if they were not then they were perceived outsiders. They had funny voices, different coloured skin, a different belief system and their more recent ancestors were from elsewhere on Earth to the recent ancestors of the attackers. The attackers would have found a reason to attack them for that instead, if there was no religion in the world.

We're all Jock Tamson's bairns and if you go back enough thousands of years we're all derived from the same primate, a fact that really hurts the hard of thinking.

[Sylar]

Some of the details emerging on social media about this are utterly harrowing (not the videos/manifesto etc).

The first man to be shot, as the gunman approached him with the rifle pointing right at him, greeted him with "hello brother". No anger, no panic - just love and welcome, despite the inevitability of what was about to happen.

Religion isn't the ****ing problem.

[Bangkok Hibby]

You don’t need to tell me that, I’m an atheist.


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As am I and actively trying to encourage others to see the folly in accepting things for what they are

[Hibrandenburg]

Wow...whataboutery at its best!! Ive already said it wont happen in our lifetime but hey lets carry on excusing it cos something else will just come along to replace it.
By the way, politics is real, driven by humans and inter community (nation) interactions. Religion is a faith in the unprovable

Religious belief is as old as humans. Change won't happen over night and any attempts at forcing it will be met with resistance and calls of persecution. I'm no fan of religion but we need to accept that it's here for a long time to come.

[Bangkok Hibby]

We're all Jock Tamson's bairns and if you go back enough thousands of years we're all derived from the same primate, a fact that really hurts the hard of thinking.

Smartie...is this aimed at me or at the violence? Either way how is is relevant?

[Bangkok Hibby]

Religious belief is as old as humans. Change won't happen over night and any attempts at forcing it will be met with resistance and calls of persecution. I'm no fan of religion but we need to accept that it's here for a long time to come.

My point I think. Anger and complaining will have no affect

[Smartie]

We're all Jock Tamson's bairns and if you go back enough thousands of years we're all derived from the same primate, a fact that really hurts the hard of thinking.

Smartie...is this aimed at me or at the violence? Either way how is is relevant?

Just musing really.

I'm taking you up on the religion side of your argument.

I don't think religion is hugely relevant to this attack.

It was an attack borne of hatred on "others" by people who have a different level of ignorance.

I don't like the concept of "others".

This is not a criticism of you or anything you've said, I'm mainly just blethering.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Just musing really.

I'm taking you up on the religion side of your argument.

I don't think religion is hugely relevant to this attack.

It was an attack borne of hatred on "others" by people who have a different level of ignorance.

I don't like the concept of "others".

This is not a criticism of you or anything you've said, I'm mainly just blethering.


OK brother 👍🏻

[Ozyhibby]

As am I and actively trying to encourage others to see the folly in accepting things for what they are

And I’m saying that it is not religion but intolerance that is the problem and you are showing intolerance.


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[Hibrandenburg]

There are a lot of teachings within religion that are anti-violence. Many people will draw on their faith as a reason NOT to carry out attacks, and to get along with people of all faiths and of none.

Religion is a red herring regarding this New Zealand business. Ok, the victims were of the same faith and were at a place of worship but even if they were not then they were perceived outsiders. They had funny voices, different coloured skin, a different belief system and their more recent ancestors were from elsewhere on Earth to the recent ancestors of the attackers. The attackers would have found a reason to attack them for that instead, if there was no religion in the world.

We're all Jock Tamson's bairns and if you go back enough thousands of years we're all derived from the same primate, a fact that really hurts the hard of thinking.

:agree: It's good old fashioned racism finding an anti religious angle. I'm sure there will be links found to Brevik and Yaxley-Lennon.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Was there just the one gunman?

[Hibrandenburg]

Was there just the one gunman?

Difficult to believe considering the attack was in 2 separate locations.

[Bangkok Hibby]

And I’m saying that it is not religion but intolerance that is the problem and you are showing intolerance.


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Ok Im intolerant in believing murder in the name of religion is wrong. In this case or every other. Not sure we can take this any further so Im out.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/the-daily-mail-let-readers-download-the-new-zealand-mosque

No shock which newspaper let their readers download the attack.[emoji35]


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[Lendo]

Killer has “for Rotherham” written on one of his assault rifle magazine clips.

If if this isn’t proof of the hatered and extremism spread by Stephen Yaxley-Lennon then nothing is.

sit back and wait on Hibs.net’s defenders of “our Tommy”

[Ozyhibby]

Companies like LNER happy to run their ads alongside videos of the attack.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/de2e29e35a4aa6983efb48fd61fffb7c.jpg


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[danhibees1875]

Companies like LNER happy to run their ads alongside videos of the attack.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/de2e29e35a4aa6983efb48fd61fffb7c.jpg


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Am I missing something here? :confused:

Do you expect there to be no adverts next to articles containing bad news?

The advert will either be because they have paid to be next to X amount of their stories or based on your search history depending on how these ones work. :dunno:

[Hibrandenburg]

Killer has “for Rotherham” written on one of his assault rifle magazine clips.

If if this isn’t proof of the hatered and extremism spread by Stephen Yaxley-Lennon then nothing is.

sit back and wait on Hibs.net’s defenders of “our Tommy”

Tommy Ten Names enjoys a certain amount of celebrity status down under. It's easy for him to sell his lies on the other side of the world amongst their hard of thinking. I would not be surprised if there is a definite link there.

[Hibrandenburg]

Am I missing something here? :confused:

Do you expect there to be no adverts next to articles containing bad news?

The advert will either be because they have paid to be next to X amount of their stories or based on your search history depending on how these ones work. :dunno:

I think the point is that the Daily Mail made the attackers live stream available for download rather than the adverts.

[Ozyhibby]

Am I missing something here? :confused:

Do you expect there to be no adverts next to articles containing bad news?

The advert will either be because they have paid to be next to X amount of their stories or based on your search history depending on how these ones work. :dunno:

I think if I was in charge of advertising for a company I would definitely make it clear I did not want my brand associated with terrorist snuff videos.


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[danhibees1875]

I think if I was in charge of advertising for a company I would definitely make it clear I did not want my brand associated with terrorist snuff videos.


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That is fair enough, but then you probably just wouldn't advertise on a news website at all then really, it's not usually stuff that is a good image to be associated with. Take the top 10 news stories on the BBC (maybe not the best example, since they don't have adverts) which would you want to advertise against:

1. Mosque terror attack
2. 18 year old dies
3. 2 killed
4. Brexit vote
5. Man killed
6. Jackson child abuse allegations
7. Wetherspoons profits are up
8. Lib Dems
9. A killer
10. Mosque terror attack


I don't think anyone would ever link the story of an article with a brand advertising near the article. If the story had been about a train crash then someone might have took notice, but otherwise I don't see why you would expect them not to just follow normal advertising procedures for the story.

[Ozyhibby]

That is fair enough, but then you probably just wouldn't advertise on a news website at all then really, it's not usually stuff that is a good image to be associated with. Take the top 10 news stories on the BBC (maybe not the best example, since they don't have adverts) which would you want to advertise against:

1. Mosque terror attack
2. 18 year old dies
3. 2 killed
4. Brexit vote
5. Man killed
6. Jackson child abuse allegations
7. Wetherspoons profits are up
8. Lib Dems
9. A killer
10. Mosque terror attack


I don't think anyone would ever link the story of an article with a brand advertising near the article. If the story had been about a train crash then someone might have took notice, but otherwise I don't see why you would expect them not to just follow normal advertising procedures for the story.

If it was just a news report then fine but the mail are showing the whole video and have a downloadable copy of his manifesto. It’s almost a ‘how to’ guide. Most responsible news sites don’t do this.
If companies like LNER want to fund this then they deserve to be called out.


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[Smartie]

I think if I was in charge of advertising for a company I would definitely make it clear I did not want my brand associated with terrorist snuff videos.


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I wouldn't want any business I owned to have any links to the Daily Mail.

They have a large leadership (a surprisingly resilient print copy one and a successful online one) that makes it tempting to do business with them.

You have to be prepared to have your brand standard associated with theirs though, and if it's not live terrorism it might be links to Katie Hopkins or Jeremy Clarkson or whichever hateful and incendiary line they happen to be peddling on any given day.

You take their buck to advertise on your site, you deserve to be associated with them, you deserve the brand damage you may suffer as a result.

I'm not going to tolerate "aye, but we didnae expect the Daily Mail to go with stuff like this" from desperate business folk who were only to happy to take the Mail's tainted dollar as they desperately try to savage their company's reputation.

[danhibees1875]

If it was just a news report then fine but the mail are showing the whole video and have a downloadable copy of his manifesto. It’s almost a ‘how to’ guide. Most responsible news sites don’t do this.
If companies like LNER want to fund this then they deserve to be called out.


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I see your point now. :agree: I hadn't fully appreciated what the article contained (despite your post saying so!). I still think it's the DM at fault than LNER, but I understand what you're saying in terms of choosing to advertise with a company who would publish the videos.

[Ozyhibby]

I see your point now. :agree: I hadn't fully appreciated what the article contained (despite your post saying so!). I still think it's the DM at fault than LNER, but I understand what you're saying in terms of choosing to advertise with a company who would publish the videos.

There is no point trying to change the DM. They backed Hitler ffs.
But we can stop funding them and other by going after the advertisers.
The explosion in right wing hate stuff online is because google ads, YouTube, Facebook etc have given them a way to monetise their hatred.


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[7 Up]

There was a thread on this forum very recently where people were defending Tommy Robinson. Robinson once said that British Muslims are “enemy combatants who want to kill you, maim you and destroy you”; and refugees are “raping their way through the country”.* People need to wake up and see the link between rhetoric like that and the awful events in New Zealand.

*Source (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/07/tommy-robinson-global-support-brexit-march)

[Newry Hibs]

Tommy Robinson, who's real name is Stephen yaxley-Lennon doorstepped on his way to court.

https://youtu.be/u6OkcwV1zew

2.42 minutes in.

[Moulin Yarns]

Statement from an Australian senator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/46988df5c5343f30ba073554188734aa.jpg

What a horrible ****.


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Is everyone aware that he only got 19 votes in 2016 and was only elected because the winner was disqualified because of fraud.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Imagine filming yourself as you murder 49 people, as if it's entertainment or for some kind of celebrity. Could it be the attempt of a social inadequate to become known for something, anything? No doubt more details about the killer will emerge.

[Dinkydoo]

You're upset and angry, I get it. So are we all. But you've mostly shown here a complete lack of understanding of how these platforms and the tech that underpins them work.



Facebook live-streamed the attack. If a broadcaster did this people would be sent to jail.


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Facebook will have had absolutely no idea what content was in the video it was broadcasting live from the live feed itself. These aren't being reviewed by millions of people in real time, nor is there an AI out there capable of distinguishing real life murder in a video broadcast from fiction which would have been able to auto-reject the feed after a few seconds.



This only exists because they have a platform to share their violence. This is how they communicate with each other.


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No. The internet is not to blame. Neither is mobile phones, snail mail or any other method of communication the problem here. There were these types of attacks before social media existed.



I think if I was in charge of advertising for a company I would definitely make it clear I did not want my brand associated with terrorist snuff videos.


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The ads will mostly appear on auto-rotation based on the User's (your) browser history. The marketing dept probably signed a contract that did not explicitly rule out the chance of their ad popping up on a page containing a "snuff video", why would it. It's a massively unlikely scenario. May as well add beastality, paedos and pretty much any other nasty **** you can think of to that list.


You could come off Facebook, YouTube etc until they stop promoting these people. If people do this then advertisers will follow and the sites will change their policies real quick.


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This I can *kinda* see what you're getting at. I agree, we need to be better at recognising and then banning hate speech and groups online. It took FAR too long for Tommy Robinson to have his social media accounts revoked. We also need to make sure that people DO have the freedom to speak about contraversial things in the public space though. The legislation around this should be clear and implemented rigorously imo.

[hibsbollah]

'Ironic' far right fascism? I can't say I understand all of this article, or the motivations of the people it's describing, but it's intriguing and scary...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/do-the-christchurch-shootings-expose-the-murderous-nature-of-ironic-online-fascism

[Sir David Gray]

This is a shocking act of brutality that any right minded person has to wholeheartedly oppose and come together with all other right minded people from different backgrounds to ensure that these poisonous thoughts are not allowed to be promoted unchallenged.

Whatever cause the perpetrators felt they were helping is totally false. They haven't helped the victims of other attacks or gained revenge on their behalf. They have murdered many innocent lives of people who were simply going quietly about their day.

There are some really dangerously wicked people on this planet. I really feel for every single person affected by this evil atrocity.

[Ozyhibby]

You're upset and angry, I get it. So are we all. But you've mostly shown here a complete lack of understanding of how these platforms and the tech that underpins them work.




Facebook will have had absolutely no idea what content was in the video it was broadcasting live from the live feed itself. These aren't being reviewed by millions of people in real time, nor is there an AI out there capable of distinguishing real life murder in a video broadcast from fiction which would have been able to auto-reject the feed after a few seconds.




No. The internet is not to blame. Neither is mobile phones, snail mail or any other method of communication the problem here. There were these types of attacks before social media existed.




The ads will mostly appear on auto-rotation based on the User's (your) browser history. The marketing dept probably signed a contract that did not explicitly rule out the chance of their ad popping up on a page containing a "snuff video", why would it. It's a massively unlikely scenario. May as well add beastality, paedos and pretty much any other nasty **** you can think of to that list.



This I can *kinda* see what you're getting at. I agree, we need to be better at recognising and then banning hate speech and groups online. It took FAR too long for Tommy Robinson to have his social media accounts revoked. We also need to make sure that people DO have the freedom to speak about contraversial things in the public space though. The legislation around this should be clear and implemented rigorously imo.

This guy would have been online for a long time spewing his hate speech. Facebook will have had plenty of opportunity to remove him and the groups he converses in. It’s not a free speech issue. Facebook are a commercial platform and have the right to remove anyone they choose. It’s time they started.


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[wpj]

This guy would have been online for a long time spewing his hate speech. Facebook will have had plenty of opportunity to remove him and the groups he converses in. It’s not a free speech issue. Facebook are a commercial platform and have the right to remove anyone they choose. It’s time they started.


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Apparently police alerted FB to the live stream

[Ozyhibby]

Apparently police alerted FB to the live stream

This guy should never have been on Facebook for the live stream to happen. Whole manifestos, mass attack plans, death threats etc all seem to go un-noticed by Facebook but one stray nipple in a picture and it’s taken down within 30 mins. Their priorities are very wrong.


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[Dinkydoo]

This guy should never have been on Facebook for the live stream to happen. Whole manifestos, mass attack plans, death threats etc all seem to go un-noticed by Facebook but one stray nipple in a picture and it’s taken down within 30 mins. Their priorities are very wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey do need to be more responsive to this kinda thing however, it is much, much easier to detect a nipple in a photograph than it is to recognise hate speech. Algorithmic censorship (because there aren't enough people to review every single reported post) could open a massive can of worms.

[Ozyhibby]

They do need to be more responsive to this kinda thing however, it is much, much easier to detect a nipple in a photograph than it is to recognise hate speech. Algorithmic censorship (because there aren't enough people to review every single reported post) could open a massive can of worms.

These people congregate in groups though. Facebook could easily afford to hire the people needed to weed these groups out. They are not hard to find. One person tasked with deleting rascist accounts in the uk could do a lot damage to these network in a day. All these ‘Britain first’ ‘Britain for the british’ type accounts are easy to find and they tend to all link to each other making them easy to find could be wiped out in a week. These are the entry points for these people.
It just needs Facebook to act.


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[Besties Debut]

Remember the holocaust didn't start with the gas chambers at Auschwitz. It started with hate speech. That is why we need a huge crackdown on the likes of Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins, Choudhary, and Britain First and those who preach hatred and division. If not these attacks and the revenge which follows will never end

[Dinkydoo]

These people congregate in groups though. Facebook could easily afford to hire the people needed to weed these groups out. They are not hard to find. One person tasked with deleting rascist accounts in the uk could do a lot damage to these network in a day. All these ‘Britain first’ ‘Britain for the british’ type accounts are easy to find and they tend to all link to each other making them easy to find could be wiped out in a week. These are the entry points for these people.
It just needs Facebook to act.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDon't diasgree with any of that. I'd put more accountability on our government though as well. Pass some laws, force the hand of these massive media platforms to ruthlessly weed out the obvious cyber bullies and hate preachers from their networks.

[Dinkydoo]

Remember the holocaust didn't start with the gas chambers at Auschwitz. It started with hate speech. That is why we need a huge crackdown on the likes of Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins, Choudhary, and Britain First and those who preach hatred and division. If not these attacks and the revenge which follows will never endAgree.

Add EDL and Orange Walks to the list of white hate groups that gets a lot of slack from the media and law. It's unacceptable and turning a blind eye to it only serves to allow that sorta thing to breed more hatred and grow out of control.

[Ozyhibby]

Our favourite Australian senator yesterday.

https://twitter.com/henry_belot/status/1106790914414919681?s=21



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[lapsedhibee]

Bit puzzled that so far The Donald doesn't seem to have publicly weighed in with any sort of claim that this shooting proves that there'd be no point tightening US gun laws.

[Pretty Boy]

Bit puzzled that so far The Donald doesn't seem to have publicly weighed in with any sort of claim that this shooting proves that there'd be no point tightening US gun laws.

All I've seen from him so far is a claim that white nationalism isn't a growing threat and it's only a 'small group of people'.

From a man who tried to introduce a blanket ban on travel from entire countries that would be amusing if it wasn't such a serious subject.

[Ozyhibby]

Bit puzzled that so far The Donald doesn't seem to have publicly weighed in with any sort of claim that this shooting proves that there'd be no point tightening US gun laws.

The Australian that committed the murders yesterday could not have bought those weapons in Australia because the gun laws are so much tighter since Port Arthur so he had to do it in New Zealand. I think that perfectly illustrates the benefit of tight gun control.


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[lapsedhibee]

The Australian that committed the murders yesterday could not have bought those weapons in Australia because the gun laws are so much tighter since Port Arthur so he had to do it in New Zealand. I think that perfectly illustrates the benefit of tight gun control.


Indeed, but how would Trump be able to work out that Australia and New Zealand are different countries?

[Ozyhibby]

Our favourite Australian senator yesterday.

https://twitter.com/henry_belot/status/1106790914414919681?s=21



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Here’s a better version.
https://twitter.com/sanasaeed/status/1106814010035503104?s=21


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[One Day Soon]

'Ironic' far right fascism? I can't say I understand all of this article, or the motivations of the people it's describing, but it's intriguing and scary...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/do-the-christchurch-shootings-expose-the-murderous-nature-of-ironic-online-fascism

I read that as suggesting that far-right extremists are essentially trying to normalise and mainstream their extremism by placing it in a context of contemporary culture, memes, issues, language etc which - apart from its deranged hatred content - could otherwise be the inane chat of mumsnet, .net or kickback. 'I'm a totally average normal bloke who just happens to hate blacks/jews/muslims/pakis/gays. I don't really want to hate them but any reasonable ordinary bloke like me can see that they're responsible for X, Y and Z. Ordinary blokes like me should really be taking direct action. Anyone fancy a pint?'.

This episode has really challenged me on my fundamental belief that free speech trumps everything. I have always thought that you cleanse hatred and lies with facts and truth. I'm not so sure now.

As far as comments elsewhere on this thread go I'd just point out that the proportion of Muslims, Jews, Christians - and pretty much any other religion - who go out and commit terrorist acts are tiny. This isn't a religious problem, its an economic, societal and cultural problem.

[hibsbollah]

I read that as suggesting that far-right extremists are essentially trying to normalise and mainstream their extremism by placing it in a context of contemporary culture, memes, issues, language etc which - apart from its deranged hatred content - could otherwise be the inane chat of mumsnet, .net or kickback. 'I'm a totally average normal bloke who just happens to hate blacks/jews/muslims/pakis/gays. I don't really want to hate them but any reasonable ordinary bloke like me can see that they're responsible for X, Y and Z. Ordinary blokes like me should really be taking direct action. Anyone fancy a pint?'.

This episode has really challenged me on my fundamental belief that free speech trumps everything. I have always thought that you cleanse hatred and lies with facts and truth. I'm not so sure now.


I think that's correct. I suppose it's the terminology that I'm not altogether familiar with, ('redpill' is certainly a new one on me) and I don't really get involved with debating with the far right online so Im probably a bit clueless.

The freedom of speech thing is a red herring when you're dealing with those who want to impose totalitarianism on the world. All other political motivations disappear for me personally when you're dealing with violent extremism or totalitarianism, it needs to be defeated and if civil liberties have to be curtailed that's the price that has to be paid. I've definitely moved my position on that.

[Ozyhibby]

I read that as suggesting that far-right extremists are essentially trying to normalise and mainstream their extremism by placing it in a context of contemporary culture, memes, issues, language etc which - apart from its deranged hatred content - could otherwise be the inane chat of mumsnet, .net or kickback. 'I'm a totally average normal bloke who just happens to hate blacks/jews/muslims/pakis/gays. I don't really want to hate them but any reasonable ordinary bloke like me can see that they're responsible for X, Y and Z. Ordinary blokes like me should really be taking direct action. Anyone fancy a pint?'.

This episode has really challenged me on my fundamental belief that free speech trumps everything. I have always thought that you cleanse hatred and lies with facts and truth. I'm not so sure now.

As far as comments elsewhere on this thread go I'd just point out that the proportion of Muslims, Jews, Christians - and pretty much any other religion - who go out and commit terrorist acts are tiny. This isn't a religious problem, its an economic, societal and cultural problem.

Clearing these people out of Facebook and other social media is not curtailing their free speech. They are still free to say what they like, just not on a privately owned platform. If Facebook was publicly owned then they would have a point but it’s not. Facebook is a commercial company and is free to decide who uses its services. It’s time we gave them a push in the right direction.


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[Sergio sledge]

Here’s a better version.
https://twitter.com/sanasaeed/status/1106814010035503104?s=21


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https://twitter.com/donswaynos/status/1106946500465250306?s=19

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.adweek.com/digital/new-zealand-brands-suspend-ads-on-facebook-and-google-following-christchurch-terrorist-attack/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


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[hibsbollah]

Some mad figures here...it's open season.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/22/anti-muslim-hate-crimes-soar-in-uk-after-christchurch-shootings

[Steve-O]

Tommy Ten Names enjoys a certain amount of celebrity status down under. It's easy for him to sell his lies on the other side of the world amongst their hard of thinking. I would not be surprised if there is a definite link there.

Not sure that’s the case in NZ. I genuinely doubt many here will have heard of Tommy Robinson.

[Steve-O]

I think the point is that the Daily Mail made the attackers live stream available for download rather than the adverts.

In the picture, the video on the Mail website is 18 seconds long. The actual video is 17 MINUTES long. I doubt the Mail (vile as they are) are allowing people to download the uncensored 17 minute video.

Both the video and manifesto have been deemed “objectionable” in NZ now and you can be charged with a criminal offence for viewing / sharing either.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not sure that’s the case in NZ. I genuinely doubt many here will have heard of Tommy Robinson.

I really meant Australia Steve, that's where the gunman comes from.

[Hibrandenburg]

In the picture, the video on the Mail website is 18 seconds long. The actual video is 17 MINUTES long. I doubt the Mail (vile as they are) are allowing people to download the uncensored 17 minute video.

Both the video and manifesto have been deemed “objectionable” in NZ now and you can be charged with a criminal offence for viewing / sharing either.

NZ have been absolutely exemplary in their handling of the aftermath. There's a lot we can learn from their reaction.

[hibsbollah]

NZ have been absolutely exemplary in their handling of the aftermath. There's a lot we can learn from their reaction.

:agree: She's been remarkable.

[Steve-O]

NZ have been absolutely exemplary in their handling of the aftermath. There's a lot we can learn from their reaction.

And nobody here is really surprised to be honest.

Still quite hard to believe this happened here. I genuinely thought NZ was simply not on the radar for this type of thing.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/sunapology/status/1113711102590947328?s=21
Shows the success that putting pressure on advertisers is having.


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[Sir David Gray]

Gunman sentenced to life without parole, the first person in New Zealand to ever receive such a sentence and the first conviction of terrorism in the country's history.

Hope he rots for what he did and hopefully the fact that he'll die in prison comes as some comfort to the friends and families of those people he murdered and also those who were injured.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53919624

[hibsbollah]

Gunman sentenced to life without parole, the first person in New Zealand to ever receive such a sentence and the first conviction of terrorism in the country's history.

Hope he rots for what he did and hopefully the fact that he'll die in prison comes as some comfort to the friends and families of those people he murdered and also those who were injured.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53919624

Id almost forgotten about that. What a terrible thing.

[Hibrandenburg]

Ms Ardern has said that "much more" needs to be done to stop radicalisation in the country.

"The challenge for us will be ensuring in our everyday actions, and every opportunity where we see bullying, harassment, racism, discrimination, calling it out as a nation," she said on the first anniversary of the attacks.

This. Bullying, harassment, racism, discrimination, and prejudice needs to be called out everywhere and everytime is raises its ugly head. It starts in the home, we need to teach our kids to call it out in schools, we need to call it out at work, home, on the street, at the football and even on the internet. Bigots, racists and fascists need to be sent back under the rocks they've crawled from and their views need to be made socially unacceptable once more.

[lapsedhibee]

This. Bullying, harassment, racism, discrimination, and prejudice needs to be called out everywhere and everytime is raises its ugly head. It starts in the home, we need to teach our kids to call it out in schools, we need to call it out at work, home, on the street, at the football and even on the internet. Bigots, racists and fascists need to be sent back under the rocks they've crawled from and their views need to be made socially unacceptable once more.

Let's hope that the Dump of Trump in November can be the start of this (though I'm not too optimistic as I think the bots have yet to get going).