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SetonClapper
09-03-2019, 01:16 PM
With the apparent increase of "supporters" prepared to destroy the good name and reputation of our club, is strict liability the only mechanism for stamping out this alarming trend ?

It feels like something draconian is required.

hibsbollah
09-03-2019, 01:24 PM
In France, a firecracker gets thrown on the pitch near a player, a whole curva behind a goal gets closed. The clubs lose €200,000 in ticket sales and looks visibly embarrassing on TV. Has happened at least twice to both Marseille, Nice and Lyon this season already.

The other lesson from France is netting behind each goal. I can actually see this happening in Scotland unless the chucking stuff stops; it's cheap for clubs, it's easy and it works. Only problem is, the recent trouble at ER has been the east stand in an area where it's harder to net.

Now being discussed on five live, Tom English and Roddy Forsyth, both actually talking sense.

bigwheel
09-03-2019, 01:26 PM
In France, a firecracker gets thrown on the pitch near a player, a whole curva behind a goal gets closed. The clubs lose €200,000 in ticket sales and looks visibly embarrassing on TV. Has happened at least twice to both Marseille, Nice and Lyon this season already.

The other lesson from France is netting behind each goal. I can actually see this happening in Scotland unless the chucking stuff stops; it's cheap for clubs, it's easy and it works. Only problem is, the recent trouble at ER has been the east stand in an area where it's harder to net.

Now being discussed on five live, Tom English and Roddy Forsyth, both actually talking sense.

Wow....how much did PSG get for this? [emoji3][emoji6]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/a0cd95545c3baa320257cc3fdbe5411e.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

H18 SFR
09-03-2019, 01:27 PM
The problem I have is, I'm 40 year old, I've never been involved in any football related disorder, if someone did something that resulted in the Famous Five stand being closed then I'd be punished despite 36 unblemished years of following and supporting my club.

SetonClapper
09-03-2019, 01:32 PM
The problem I have is, I'm 40 year old, I've never been involved in any football related disorder, if someone did something that resulted in the Famous Five stand being closed then I'd be punished despite 36 unblemished years of following and supporting my club.

I totally get that and I'm exactly the same, but something needs to be done. Lifetime bans are closing the door after the horse has bolted. Maybe in time it will be enough to buck the trend, but I have my doubts.

hibsbollah
09-03-2019, 01:34 PM
Wow....how much did PSG get for this? [emoji3][emoji6]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/a0cd95545c3baa320257cc3fdbe5411e.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Flares and firecrackers are so common in France theres a degree of toleration, otherwise the stands would be almost permanently shut:greengrin It's when they get chucked on the pitch that they actually close a stand.

Michael
09-03-2019, 01:35 PM
I totally get that and I'm exactly the same, but something needs to be done. Lifetime bans are closing the door after the horse has bolted. Maybe in time it will be enough to buck the trend, but I have my doubts.

How effective is a ban anyway? Must be pretty easy to hide amongst 10-20 thousand people.

SetonClapper
09-03-2019, 01:36 PM
Flares and firecrackers are so common in France theres a degree of toleration, otherwise the stands would be almost permanently shut:greengrin It's when they get chucked on the pitch that they actually close a stand.

Maybe I'm getting old but to me that looks like a war zone rather than something that enhances atmosphere 8-)

hibsbollah
09-03-2019, 01:41 PM
Maybe I'm getting old but to me that looks like a war zone rather than something that enhances atmosphere 8-)

I know what you mean. But bear in mind that those displays are always in the same sections, where the ultras congregate. The 'scarfers' and kids and families sit in the main stands, radges get segregated. Which is better management than in Scotland, where the family stands are often filled with radges on the drink and you never know what type of fan you're going to be sitting around based on what seat you buy.

Hibernia&Alba
09-03-2019, 01:44 PM
I'm in favour of strict liability, which I think is only thing which will effectively tackle sectarianism, for example. Fines, points deductions, stand closures: whatever it takes to stop the idiots, just like UEFA uses.

Hibernia&Alba
09-03-2019, 01:49 PM
I know what you mean. But bear in mind that those displays are always in the same sections, where the ultras congregate. The 'scarfers' and kids and families sit in the main stands, radges get segregated. Which is better management than in Scotland, where the family stands are often filled with radges on the drink and you never know what type of fan you're going to be sitting around based on what seat you buy.

:hilarious

I like that. "Can all radges please assemble in the appropriate section", over the P.A. Embarrassed radges shuffling off to the meeting point. Section caged off, labelled Radges. :aok:

SetonClapper
09-03-2019, 02:05 PM
Flares and firecrackers are so common in France theres a degree of toleration, otherwise the stands would be almost permanently shut:greengrin It's when they get chucked on the pitch that they actually close a stand.

Maybe I'm getting old but to me that looks like a war zone rather than something that enhances atmosphere 8-)

SetonClapper
09-03-2019, 02:18 PM
Flares and firecrackers are so common in France theres a degree of toleration, otherwise the stands would be almost permanently shut:greengrin It's when they get chucked on the pitch that they actually close a stand.

Maybe I'm getting old but to me that looks like a war zone rather than something that enhances atmosphere 8-)

hibsbollah
09-03-2019, 02:38 PM
:hilarious

I like that. "Can all radges please assemble in the appropriate section", over the P.A. Embarrassed radges shuffling off to the meeting point. Section caged off, labelled Radges. :aok:

It makes sense to me. Having young kids sitting next to coked up radges is no fun, either for the families or the coked up radge. Radge apartheid is the way forward:thumbsup:

I_Love_Latapy
09-03-2019, 03:17 PM
It makes sense to me. Having young kids sitting next to coked up radges is no fun, either for the families or the coked up radge. Radge apartheid is the way forward:thumbsup:

Love the idea ... cue 2 month debate on where in ER the new Radge Section is put ...

Moulin Yarns
09-03-2019, 03:19 PM
Love the idea ... cue 2 month debate on where in ER the new Radge Section is put ...

Is it not already called the directors box?

Jim44
09-03-2019, 05:54 PM
If strict liability was brought in, who exactly takes the hit? If it’s the home club’s responsibility, what would happen if the away supporters caused mayhem?

Glory Lurker
09-03-2019, 05:57 PM
I posted an entirely ignored thread with the same title last week :boo hoo::boo hoo::boo hoo::greengrin

How would strict liability apply to offensive chanting? There are songs that use words that, used in the street against someone, constitute a hate crime and these would clearly be actionable. How many folk singing them qualifies for action, though? One guy, a few, a whole stand? Who decides if it’s been heard? Fourth official? Telly watchers? Someone in other end who swears he/she heard it?

Then, of course, there’s tons of songs (thinking about the OF songbook) that don’t have words in them that are in themselves hate crime-lingo, but are clearly not conducive to good community relations. Do these lead to action? Who decides which are acceptable and which aren’t?

There’s enough uncertainty there to show why strict liability won’t hit the problems that are more prevalent in top flight Scottish football than what happened last night (not to be taken in any way as a defence of the wee ned - I think he deserves a life ban from ER on top of whatever the court chucks at him).

hibsbollah
09-03-2019, 06:00 PM
If strict liability was brought in, who exactly takes the hit? If it’s the home club’s responsibility, what would happen if the away supporters caused mayhem?

If it's brought in and UEFA guidelines are followed, away team would be fined if their travelling fans misbehaved. (eg Roma fined €50k for their fans fighting in Liverpool last season). You are responsible for your own fans, regardless of where the match is played.

Onion
09-03-2019, 06:18 PM
I'm in favour of strict liability, which I think is only thing which will effectively tackle sectarianism, for example. Fines, points deductions, stand closures: whatever it takes to stop the idiots, just like UEFA uses.

How ironic would it be that after decades of tens of thousands of Celtic and Sevco fans spouting their sectarian bile (aka a "small minority"), a couple of incidents involving individual nutters could lead to Strict Liability ?

The crazy things is it's virtually impossible for clubs to manage the risk of an individual nutter, yet quite possible for Celtic and Sevco fans to restrain themselves from singing the "folk songs".

Celtic and Sevco would prefer their players to be at risk of harm from the odd nutter than vote for Strict Liability.

Iggy Pope
09-03-2019, 06:29 PM
If it's brought in and UEFA guidelines are followed, away team would be fined if their travelling fans misbehaved. (eg Roma fined €50k for their fans fighting in Liverpool last season). You are responsible for your own fans, regardless of where the match is played.

Celtic had their own stewards at Easter Road last week I seen them getting out of their bus pre-match. Don’t know about the Huns yesterday, never got that close to them.
Maybe they’re both a step ahead of the rest of us in terms of liability?

hibsbollah
09-03-2019, 06:31 PM
Celtic had their own stewards at Easter Road last week I seen them getting out of their bus pre-match. Don’t know about the Huns yesterday, never got that close to them.
Maybe they’re both a step ahead of the rest of us in terms of liability?

Yeah I saw them too. Had no idea they did that.