Official HSL - Paul and Robbie

[OfficialHSL]

#ClubTogether


Hibernian Supporters Limited ( HSL) are delighted to welcome on board our new Coaching team, Paul Heckingbottom and Robbie Stockdale.

Seen here completing their Application Forms, Paul and Robbie were absolutely delighted to support the cause. New Head Coach Paul said “I was delighted to meet the Directors of HSL and hear about the fantastic support from their Members. Robbie and I have received an incredibly warm welcome from everyone at the Club and we will be doing everything we can to move things forward. We are ordinary lads ourselves so we really appreciate the generosity shown by ordinary men, women and children who just want to help their Team.’’

Robbie was also delighted to add his support and commented “Paul and I have received a great reception and have been made to feel at home right from the start. We knew before coming to Scotland that funds are not the same as England and we are so impressed to see ordinary supporters digging into their own pockets to help improve the quality of player that we can bring in. I want to add my support to HSL and thank all Members in advance for helping the Club “.

HSL contributors have now invested almost £750,000 into this squad and this is a remarkable achievement for the numbers involved to date. Jim Adie, Chair of HSL added “ The generosity shown by our Members has been overwhelming and we cannot thank them enough. The reality however is that we will be unable to match the contributions being made by our nearest rivals unless we can convince our fellow supporters to join and help our Team. I hate the thought that Paul and Robbie won’t have the same resources available to them and would like to encourage those who have not already joined to consider doing so now. Of course, please only donate funds if you are in a position to do so. Let’s get right behind them.”


You can join on our web site www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk (http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk)

[IberianHibernian]

Good to hear HSL news here again as I don`t remember seeing anything here during the transfer window when I expected to see extra appeals for donations .

[KWJ]

Is Neil Lennon still a subscriber and contributing?

[hibbydad]

Come on guys lets show the jambos we can get behind our club too

[CmoantheHibs]

Come on guys lets show the jambos we can get behind our club too

We already do. We have a higher average attendance than them.

[IberianHibernian]

Think I read on website that 1700 people contribute . Is this number of members ( think a member is someone who has contributed at least 230 pounds ) or number who are currently contributing every month whether members or not ? Either way , 1700 is still a very high number and probably much higher than other fundraising projects that have existed in the past ( Club 86 , ERIN Trust , Hibernians - does this still exist ? ) .

[hibbydad]

We already do. We have a higher average attendance than them.
Yes but they are leaving us standing with foundation of hearts we as a support need to get behind HSL in numbers if we can afford even a small amount each month

[OfficialHSL]

We already do. We have a higher average attendance than them.


Attendance has been great however what we need to recognise is that supporters at our nearest rivals have chosen to donate huge sums of additional funds to their Team. Once the purchase transaction completes early next year it is likely that the Hearts manager will have possibly as much as an extra £1.5m available to spend on players. Aberdeen will be the same. We are trying to let our fellow supporters realise what is in front of us. Ambition is a much used word and often directed at our Board. The reality is that our Board can only give our Manager the money that we give them. Like Aberdeen and Hearts, we don't need a few people giving a lot we need a lot of people giving a little. At the end of the day it us that will determine what we get.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

Yes but they are leaving us standing with foundation of hearts we as a support need to get behind HSL in numbers if we can afford even a small amount each month

hibbydad

You are so correct. We are trying so hard to help our fellow supporters to understand what is unfolding before our very eyes. The facts are that the Hearts and Aberdeen fans are pouring millions of additional pounds into their playing squads and if nothing changes and this gap continues to widen one can only imagine that our Managers' job will become harder and harder. This is about supporter ambition.


HSL

[Baldy Foghorn]

hibbydad

You are so correct. We are trying so hard to help our fellow supporters to understand what is unfolding before our very eyes. The facts are that the Hearts and Aberdeen fans are pouring millions of additional pounds into their playing squads and if nothing changes and this gap continues to widen one can only imagine that our Managers' job will become harder and harder. This is about supporter ambition.


HSL

Them and Aberdeen are both being heavily backed by one or two very wealthy people. Supporter ambition? Not sure that's fair....Fans always want more for the Club.

[Billy Whizz]

Them and Aberdeen are both being heavily backed by one or two very wealthy people. Supporter ambition? Not sure that's fair....Fans always want more for the Club.

We have a very very wealthy owner/major shareholder.....

[Baldy Foghorn]

We have a very very wealthy owner/major shareholder.....

Indeed, but he isn't willing to put anymore in

[hibbydad]

Them and Aberdeen are both being heavily backed by one or two very wealthy people. Supporter ambition? Not sure that's fair....Fans always want more for the Club.
Yes Baldy but yams are taking about ££1.4m from fans like us

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yes Baldy but yams are taking about ££1.4m from fans like us

That is paying debt off, we own ground, training centre, little debt, they are still paying stand off and debt.

[Billy Whizz]

Yes Baldy but yams are taking about ££1.4m from fans like us

But they have an owner who’s actively involved, regardless of what we think of her
Think this is the main difference from HSL and Foh, and I contribute to HSL

[Bangkok Hibby]

Happy to be part of this important group.

[OfficialHSL]

Them and Aberdeen are both being heavily backed by one or two very wealthy people. Supporter ambition? Not sure that's fair....Fans always want more for the Club.

Baldy

This is only partly correct. By far the largest amount of money for Hearts is coming from ordinary fans just like us. It is not a large amount coming from a few it is a small amount coming from the many. The FOH will own the Club in about 12 months and from that point they will have about £1.5m per annum to add to the Managers budget. This is the message we are trying to get over to our fellow supporters. We don't want to be in a situation where Aberdeen and Hearts gradually pull away from us because they have more money to attract better players and Managers.

In terms of ambition, the point we are trying to make here is that we often hear some fans suggest that the Board lack ambition. The Board can only give the manager the money that they have and they only have the money that we give them. It would seem from the actions of the Aberdeen and Hearts fans that they are willing to pay more money to help to improve their Team. It's for us to decide what we want to do.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

That is paying debt off, we own ground, training centre, little debt, they are still paying stand off and debt.

Baldy

Can we just clarify this. The final £1.4m that the FOH are paying in essence is being paid to the current owner. This finishes in about 12 months and at that point they will own the Club and will be free to make the £1.4m available to the manager. They too will own their own ground.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

Indeed, but he isn't willing to put anymore in

If that is the case we can either :

- sit back and do nothing

or

- take up the opportunity to put our own money in, just like the Hearts fans.


HSL

[B.H.F.C]

Baldy

This is only partly correct. By far the largest amount of money for Hearts is coming from ordinary fans just like us. It is not a large amount coming from a few it is a small amount coming from the many. The FOH will own the Club in about 12 months and from that point they will have about £1.5m per annum to add to the Managers budget. This is the message we are trying to get over to our fellow supporters. We don't want to be in a situation where Aberdeen and Hearts gradually pull away from us because they have more money to attract better players and Managers.

In terms of ambition, the point we are trying to make here is that we often hear some fans suggest that the Board lack ambition. The Board can only give the manager the money that they have and they only have the money that we give them. It would seem from the actions of the Aberdeen and Hearts fans that they are willing to pay more money to help to improve their Team. It's for us to decide what we want to do.


HSL

Hearts last accounts showed a £2m donation from an unarmed benifactor. I’m not particularly clued up on this type of stuff but guessing that’s nothing to do with the FOH contributions?

[OfficialHSL]

But they have an owner who’s actively involved, regardless of what we think of her
Think this is the main difference from HSL and Foh, and I contribute to HSL

Billy

Thank you for supporting the cause. It is only fair to point out that as recently as 2015 our principal shareholder injected £4.5m into the Club.

If we look at Hearts and consider why the FOH came about we think it tells you much about finances in Scottish Football. When Hearts fell into Administration a number of high profile Hearts fans quite literally searched the planet looking for a Hearts minded wealthy "investor" to save the Club but they could not find anyone. Neither could they find anyone to take things on a commercial basis. The current owner became involved on the basis of a temporary arrangement that involved only a short period of ownership. Football ownership is not for the faint hearted.

They reached the conclusion that the most sustainable way forward was for the supporters collectively to support their Club. Clearly FOH started from different circumstances but that was a few years ago now and what their fans seem to have realised is that if they don't help out it is unlikely that anyone else will. We sense that a lot of Hibs fans just don't realise the harsh financial reality of Scottish Football and aren't aware what the Hearts and Aberdeen fans seem to realise.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

Hearts last accounts showed a £2m donation from an unarmed benifactor. I’m not particularly clued up on this type of stuff but guessing that’s nothing to do with the FOH contributions?

Thats why we were saying it is only partly correct. Once their final instalment is paid in the coming year we understand that the FOH will have paid £9.3m in total. While a one off donation must be very welcome it is a huge advantage to have around 8000 ordinary fans handing over around £1.5m every year.


HSL

[Billy Whizz]

Billy

Thank you for supporting the cause. It is only fair to point out that as recently as 2015 our principal shareholder injected £4.5m into the Club.

If we look at Hearts and consider why the FOH came about we think it tells you much about finances in Scottish Football. When Hearts fell into Administration a number of high profile Hearts fans quite literally searched the planet looking for a Hearts minded wealthy "investor" to save the Club but they could not find anyone. Neither could they find anyone to take things on a commercial basis. The current owner became involved on the basis of a temporary arrangement that involved only a short period of ownership. Football ownership is not for the faint hearted.

They reached the conclusion that the most sustainable way forward was for the supporters collectively to support their Club. Clearly FOH started from different circumstances but that was a few years ago now and what their fans seem to have realised is that if they don't help out it is unlikely that anyone else will. We sense that a lot of Hibs fans just don't realise the harsh financial reality of Scottish Football and aren't aware what the Hearts and Aberdeen fans seem to realise.


HSL
Thanks for the reply HSL, probably asks a few more questions than answers. I’m all for investment into Hibs, but what are FOH and Aberdeen doing to raise finances, that we can learn from?
I must admit HSL visibility is low, what are the plans to raise awareness and increase its profile amongst Hibs supporters, and ultimately increase members

[Bangkok Hibby]

Ive signed up tonight. Can I suggest you make the process a little simpler. Maybe allow credit card or debit card payments. Or did I just miss all that? 😟😃

[OfficialHSL]

Ive signed up tonight. Can I suggest you make the process a little simpler. Maybe allow credit card or debit card payments. Or did I just miss all that? 😟😃

Bangkok Hibby

Thank you very much for your donation, it is very welcome and will help our Team.

If you look at the bottom of the "Donate" page you will see a button for international donators or those who don't want to use the Go Cardless system. This allows donations by Credit or Debit card.


HSL

[Bangkok Hibby]

Bangkok Hibby

Thank you very much for your donation, it is very welcome and will help our Team.

If you look at the bottom of the "Donate" page you will see a button for international donators or those who don't want to use the Go Cardless system. This allows donations by Credit or Debit card.


HSL

👍🏻🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬

[Baldy Foghorn]

Baldy

This is only partly correct. By far the largest amount of money for Hearts is coming from ordinary fans just like us. It is not a large amount coming from a few it is a small amount coming from the many. The FOH will own the Club in about 12 months and from that point they will have about £1.5m per annum to add to the Managers budget. This is the message we are trying to get over to our fellow supporters. We don't want to be in a situation where Aberdeen and Hearts gradually pull away from us because they have more money to attract better players and Managers.

In terms of ambition, the point we are trying to make here is that we often hear some fans suggest that the Board lack ambition. The Board can only give the manager the money that they have and they only have the money that we give them. It would seem from the actions of the Aberdeen and Hearts fans that they are willing to pay more money to help to improve their Team. It's for us to decide what we want to do.


HSL

If that is indeed the case, then we have a Board not doing their jobs, bringing in revenue from other streams like sponsorship etc. In fact I don't believe the only money they have comes from us. McGinn transfer money?

[hibbydad]

If that is indeed the case, then we have a Board not doing their jobs, bringing in revenue from other streams like sponsorship etc. In fact I don't believe the only money they have comes from us. McGinn transfer money?
My friend Baldy this is serious they are marching ahead of us not just HSL MAKING IT UP. We need to encourage every Hibs supporter who can to back HSL. In my case I will also buy more shares in my own name if they become available. If I see you at Livingston we can talk about it

[OfficialHSL]

If that is indeed the case, then we have a Board not doing their jobs, bringing in revenue from other streams like sponsorship etc. In fact I don't believe the only money they have comes from us. McGinn transfer money?

Baldy

We are sure that your are not intending to distract us away from the underlying point we are trying to highlight. Yes of course the Club generate some additional funds from advertising etc as well as the occasional transfer fee but so too do other Clubs. We have no reason to believe that Hibs are much different from Aberdeen or Hearts in these areas unless you know otherwise. We are simply trying to make as many Hibs fans as possible aware of what is going on right now at our nearest rivals in relation to their finances. We don't want to see a situation where we fall behind our two nearest rivals. We wish that Scottish football generated much bigger streams of income from other sources but sadly it doesn't.


HSL

[lyonhibs]

Baldy

We are sure that your are not intending to distract us away from the underlying point we are trying to highlight. Yes of course the Club generate some additional funds from advertising etc as well as the occasional transfer fee but so too do other Clubs. We have no reason to believe that Hibs are much different from Aberdeen or Hearts in these areas unless you know otherwise. We are simply trying to make as many Hibs fans as possible aware of what is going on right now at our nearest rivals in relation to their finances. We don't want to see a situation where we fall behind our two nearest rivals. We wish that Scottish football generated much bigger streams of income from other sources but sadly it doesn't.


HSL

The "underlying point" you made that was highlighted was the clearly erroneous one that the board only had to hand the money that had come direct from the fans. That's all. If you post demonstrably wrong info, it is liable to be picked up on.

[OfficialHSL]

The "underlying point" you made that was highlighted was the clearly erroneous one that the board only had to hand the money that had come direct from the fans. That's all. If you post demonstrably wrong info, it is liable to be picked up on.
Lyon Hibs

Thank you for highlighting this. We will of course try to be even more careful with our wording in future.

Returning to what we understand to be the case :

1. Over 8000 Hearts fans continue to make regular donations to their Club

2. Over 6500 Aberdeen fans are making regular donations to their Club

3. Less than 2000 Hibs fans are making regular donations to Hibs


If you do not already donate to HSL, and you can afford to do so, we would love to have you on board.



https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/

[The 90+2]

Them and Aberdeen are both being heavily backed by one or two very wealthy people. Supporter ambition? Not sure that's fair....Fans always want more for the Club.

Take away they one or more wealthy people.

Month after month their support plow much more in.

When they are miles ahead off the park, nobody will be able to moan at all because like relegation we all see it coming get some make excuses.

[The 90+2]

Lyon Hibs

Thank you for highlighting this. We will of course try to be even more careful with our wording in future.

Returning to what we understand to be the case :

1. Over 8000 Hearts fans continue to make regular donations to their Club

2. Over 6500 Aberdeen fans are making regular donations to their Club

3. Less than 2000 Hibs fans are making regular donations to Hibs


If you do not already donate to HSL, and you can afford to do so, we would love to have you on board.



https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/



How embarrassing are they actual stats.

But, but, but..::

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'l start donating again when paypal is reinstated :aok: i'l even donate an extra 36p to cover the paypal costs

[Pagan Hibernia]

Would it be fair to say that Hearts and Aberdeen fans may be, in the main, just a bit better off financially than Hibs fans, with more disposable income? I know historically this has probably been the case with them being the Establishment team and us being proudly working class. When you get to the end of the month, and the rent and bills have been paid that £18.75, or tenner, or whatever just may not be available in a lot of peoples accounts.

Just trying to find reasons for the different responses to our respective fundraising schemes (apart from the whole ‘they had to step up or the club died’).

I don’t believe for one second that they simply care more.

[madhatter]

Would it be fair to say that Hearts and Aberdeen fans may be, in the main, just a bit better off financially than Hibs fans, with more disposable income? I know historically this has probably been the case with them being the Establishment team and us being proudly working class. When you get to the end of the month, and the rent and bills have been paid that £18.75, or tenner, or whatever just may not be available in a lot of peoples accounts.

Just trying to find reasons for the different responses to our respective fundraising schemes (apart from the whole ‘they had to step up or the club died’).

I don’t believe for one second that they simply care more.

They haven't endured a Petrie and Farmer reign. That alone will put most people off.

I pay into HSL but I still don't fully trust the club. Reasons for that are evident even now, highest ST numbers but yet we have a tiny squad. I mean, look at our squad after you've subtracted the loans. It's ridiculously small. It's also getting old and I don't see the forward thinking in terms of signing up talented youth from Championship etc. Instead we sign Milligan, a 33year old. I'm not slating Milligan, just saying we seem to have gone back to quick fixes instead of Boyle-esque projects.

I'm sure the money is being spent somewhere but I'd rather it be evident in the squad...

[Since452]

Or we can just wait for Brenda to buy SJM for 20 million.

[B.H.F.C]

Take away they one or more wealthy people.

Month after month their support plow much more in.

When they are miles ahead off the park, nobody will be able to moan at all because like relegation we all see it coming get some make excuses.

They still relied on the unnamed benefactor to make a profit last year. What if that person doesn’t make that £2m donation to be added to next years accounts?

I’m no expert on this type of stuff so might be talking pish. But to me it doesn’t look a safe or sustainable business model and I don’t think it’s as clear cut as saying all the money they hand over will go straight to Levein.

[Lago]

Baldy

We are sure that your are not intending to distract us away from the underlying point we are trying to highlight. Yes of course the Club generate some additional funds from advertising etc as well as the occasional transfer fee but so too do other Clubs. We have no reason to believe that Hibs are much different from Aberdeen or Hearts in these areas unless you know otherwise. We are simply trying to make as many Hibs fans as possible aware of what is going on right now at our nearest rivals in relation to their finances. We don't want to see a situation where we fall behind our two nearest rivals. We wish that Scottish football generated much bigger streams of income from other sources but sadly it doesn't.


HSL
So 8000 Hearts fans contribute to FOH, how many Hibs fans currently contribute to HSL ?

[green day]

Would it be fair to say that Hearts and Aberdeen fans may be, in the main, just a bit better off financially than Hibs fans, with more disposable income? I know historically this has probably been the case with them being the Establishment team and us being proudly working class. When you get to the end of the month, and the rent and bills have been paid that £18.75, or tenner, or whatever just may not be available in a lot of peoples accounts.

Just trying to find reasons for the different responses to our respective fundraising schemes (apart from the whole ‘they had to step up or the club died’).

I don’t believe for one second that they simply care more.

I doubt that the highlighted bit is the case at all, the demographics of the fans will be broadly similar.

Look, its pretty simple stuff as HSL guy has explained - If we make an assumption that Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen have broadly the same STs (I know we dont, but indulge me) and zero outside investment, then Hearts and Aberdeen are attracting £Millions of additional money directly from their fans.

Its too easy to say "I dont trust the board" - its a total cop out from people that say they want Hibs to be successful, but do nothing in the face of cast iron evidence that we are being left behind by Hearts and Aberdeen fans.

Our fans just keep blaming someone else, and will cry about it when the Jambos march off into the sunset with better players and more chance of trophies.

However, in the way of Hibs.net, no doubt someone will come along shortly to tell me I am totally wrong, or the board should get more money, why should the fans pay, or its all Farmers ponzi scheme.............:rolleyes:

[green day]

So 8000 Hearts fans contribute to FOH, how many Hibs fans currently contribute to HSL ?

He told you above, 1700

[hibsmad]

I doubt that the highlighted bit is the case at all, the demographics of the fans will be broadly similar.

Look, its pretty simple stuff as HSL guy has explained - If we make an assumption that Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen have broadly the same STs (I know we dont, but indulge me) and zero outside investment, then Hearts and Aberdeen are attracting £Millions of additional money directly from their fans.

Its too easy to say "I dont trust the board" - its a total cop out from people that say they want Hibs to be successful, but do nothing in the face of cast iron evidence that we are being left behind by Hearts and Aberdeen fans.

Our fans just keep blaming someone else, and will cry about it when the Jambos march off into the sunset with better players and more chance of trophies.

However, in the way of Hibs.net, no doubt someone will come along shortly to tell me I am totally wrong, or the board should get more money, why should the fans pay, or its all Farmers ponzi scheme.............:rolleyes:

Yep, I just don't get why every time there is a post from HSL on here to promote it, there are people who question it in any way. If someone doesn't want to contribute or can't afford to then fine, but it seems incredible that there are ever any responses that are anything other than positive.

I just wish that HSL would change their name and have a bit of a re-launch at the same time. Also don't be afraid to really push home just how far Foundation of Hearts are ahead of us. The bottom line is that if we remain as far behind them with regards to contributions, it's not a fear that we might be behind them on the pitch, we absolutely will be behind them and we will have to endure more defeats than victories over a prolonged period of time.

We need to get the finger out!

[BSEJVT]

Over the years I have been pretty vocal on HSL but I am afraid the constant negativity from so much of our support has just worn me down.

I am fed up with folk rehashing old arguments about lack of trust in the board as a reason not to contribute and you only have to look at various threads on the board to have reinforced the fact that some folk would rather live in the past and cast up long ago events than look to the future.

What I really don't understand is that if you are that pissed of with and lacking in trust for the board, why don't you :

a) either give the whole thing up as a bad job

or

b) do something to effect change and that something should be reducing their shareholding by contributing to HSL

Why would you perpetuate the status quo you so clearly detest?

It's like constantly reliving Groundhog Day, the same folk making the same points about the same concerns, most of which have been proven to be utter rubbish.

When does it end?

When do we look forward?

Is it when folk with those views are no longer with us?

Is it when STF and RP are no longer with us?

Or does it never end because we sat on our hands and watched the disaster unfold and then gave up on the club because there was no point and we never beat Hearts or Aberdeen and never won anything and the myth about the boards ineffectiveness and parsimony became a self fulfilling prophecy.

If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results then IMO those that can't let go of the past are insane.

The past might help inform the future but it doesn't define it, what we do now does, not what was done 5, 10 , 15, 20 or however many years ago

For my part I am fed up with my part in perpetuating the insanity of trying to encourage people who wont be encouraged by anything to see the bigger picture and give up.

My guess is we will all look back on this in a few short years time as a huge missed opportunity to have taken action when we could, but perversely those that wont get on board will think it justified their approach.

At least we can all be miserable together then!

[Lago]

He told you above, 1700

Sorry I missed that. Those numbers suggest both a bit of complacency & lack of trust from the Hibs fans.

[B.H.F.C]

Yep, I just don't get why every time there is a post from HSL on here to promote it, there are people who question it in any way. If someone doesn't want to contribute or can't afford to then fine, but it seems incredible that there are ever any responses that are anything other than positive.

I just wish that HSL would change their name and have a bit of a re-launch at the same time. Also don't be afraid to really push home just how far Foundation of Hearts are ahead of us. The bottom line is that if we remain as far behind them with regards to contributions, it's not a fear that we might be behind them on the pitch, we absolutely will be behind them and we will have to endure more defeats than victories over a prolonged period of time.

We need to get the finger out!

I agree that people, me included, constantly have the same reservations and reasons not to contribute.

Is there not an argument that HSL constantly have the same narrative as well though? Every so often something will pop up telling us how far we are going to be behind Hearts etc.

One of the biggest differences for me is that, with FOH, there has been a very clear set of milestones that they needed to hit and they know what they get when they hit them. I don’t get that with HSL but that could be through my own lack of understanding.

The way I see it is that Hearts are moving towards the ownership model they are because, at the time it was initiated, it was the only option they had. Rather than compare to Hearts I still think people need to be educated on what fan ownership means, what the benefits are and how it’ll look. Clearly define the milestones that we need/want to hit and what we get when we hit them.

[OfficialHSL]

i'l start donating again when paypal is reinstated :aok: i'l even donate an extra 36p to cover the paypal costs

Would love to have you on board again but we have to be honest and say that Paypal was excluded as the cost implications ( we don't just mean individual collection costs ) just could not justify it.

Would be really interested to understand what the issues are with Go Cardless or Stripe to see if we could find a resolution ?


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

I agree that people, me included, constantly have the same reservations and reasons not to contribute.

Is there not an argument that HSL constantly have the same narrative as well though? Every so often something will pop up telling us how far we are going to be behind Hearts etc.

One of the biggest differences for me is that, with FOH, there has been a very clear set of milestones that they needed to hit and they know what they get when they hit them. I don’t get that with HSL but that could be through my own lack of understanding.

The way I see it is that Hearts are moving towards the ownership model they are because, at the time it was initiated, it was the only option they had. Rather than compare to Hearts I still think people need to be educated on what fan ownership means, what the benefits are and how it’ll look. Clearly define the milestones that we need/want to hit and what we get when we hit them.

Thank you for your comments and we would love to have the opportunity to answer all your queries. Allow us to deal with each of your points :

a. If you look at our communications over the last couple of years we have in fact changed our narrative as a result of feedback given to us. We have been invited to talk less about fan ownership and share % and concentrate on the key point of simply raising additional funds to help our Manager get better player. Needless to say when we do that we find others suggesting we don't do that.

b. In recent times more people have been suggesting that we need to start "talking straight" with our fellow supporters and make it clear to everyone what our rivals are up to and more importantly what the implications are.

c. Our key milestones are set out on our website i.e. 20% shareholding and we gain Board representation , 25.1 % shareholding and we acquire a meaningful stake in our Club. Beyond that we can't say as the depends on our principal shareholder and indeed it also depends on our appetite for greater ownership

d. The Hearts fans did only have one option at the outset but thereafter they had choices. They didn't have to plough an extra £3m in for their stand. Indeed, they don't have to complete the purchase transaction, one can only assume they are pushing ahead because they are ambitious for their Club.

As many others have said, even right now, which Club manager has most funds available to spend on players. Our best guess right now is ;

1. Aberdeen
2. Hearts
3. Hibs

If things continue as they are we believe the gap will only get bigger.


HSL

[green day]

3 questions for those who mistrust the HSL concept and wont contribute at the moment;



What would it take for you to part with - say - a £10 a month donation?
Would it be better if it was rebranded and obviously a donation to pay for players (as opposed to share purchase)?
I know some people mistrust the board and think this in some way benefits them - Given a clean slate, what would it take for some scheme to make you say "aye, I will do that"?


I am not looking for an argument, just wondering if there is a clear and obvious rebrand / change that the guys can enact in order that we can keep up with the Jambos and the sheep?

[lyonhibs]

3 questions for those who mistrust the HSL concept and wont contribute at the moment;



What would it take for you to part with - say - a £10 a month donation?
Would it be better if it was rebranded and obviously a donation to pay for players (as opposed to share purchase)?
I know some people mistrust the board and think this in some way benefits them - Given a clean slate, what would it take for some scheme to make you say "aye, I will do that"?


I am not looking for an argument, just wondering if there is a clear and obvious rebrand / change that the guys can enact in order that we can keep up with the Jambos and the sheep?

Number 2 is the main one for me. Start a parallel fund called "Into Hecky's pocket" or whatever where the only guarantee was that every penny given to it would form part of the 1st squad transfer budget. Not the "footballing activities" budget, the 1st squad transfer budget. No need to faff about with shares, certificates or the like. Or, do away with the "fan ownership/representation" element of HSL, but I appreciate that's highly unlikely.

[Beefster]

I don’t want to get into a debate and detract from the main point but comparisons with Hearts and/or Aberdeen are not valid imho. Hearts were almost dead when their scheme started and Aberdeen’s scheme provides tangible benefits at an individual level. In fact, I’d like to see Hibs implement something along the same lines as Aberdeen.

[hibbydad]

Beefster Hearts were nearly dead but sadly they are now very much alive and leaving us standing still. When are Hibs supporters going to wake up and smell the coffee. I totally detest the Hearts support but they are showing us how to support your football team. As for all the old clapped out arguments about the board and Petrie do some people never move on with anything in life. Surely most people could afford at least a fiver a month to support HSL.

[madhatter]

Beefster Hearts were nearly dead but sadly they are now very much alive and leaving us standing still. When are Hibs supporters going to wake up and smell the coffee. I totally detest the Hearts support but they are showing us how to support your football team. As for all the old clapped out arguments about the board and Petrie do some people never move on with anything in life. Surely most people could afford at least a fiver a month to support HSL.

As far as I'm concerned Hearts aren't showing us how to support our club - blind support no matter what isn't right from a financial point of view. We are not the establishment club that gets bailed out after we enjoy success after not paying tax. We're the club that would go out of business in all likelihood. Hearts fans largely enjoyed that success blindly, just as they are content giving money to club blindly. HSL and Hibs are taking correct position on this one, the fans lives are more important and only those in a position to give should.

As for Petrie and Farmer stuff, until they leave, fans have every right to hold certain thoughts regarding them. Supporting a club isn't free. If I'm paying for anything as far as I'm concerned I'm allowed to have opinions on it.

At the end of the day, beyond Hibs doing social work to help community, what do the club do for free to help most fans on a personal level? That goes for any club in the world. If Hearts fans don't see success shortly they will have pitchforks ready. They'll be expecting something for their cash.

[marinello59]

Beefster Hearts were nearly dead but sadly they are now very much alive and leaving us standing still. When are Hibs supporters going to wake up and smell the coffee. I totally detest the Hearts support but they are showing us how to support your football team. As for all the old clapped out arguments about the board and Petrie do some people never move on with anything in life. Surely most people could afford at least a fiver a month to support HSL.

Top flight Scottish football clubs putting the squeeze on to fans to treat them like charities shows how badly those running our game have done.

[NRW_Hibbie]

Top flight Scottish football clubs putting the squeeze on to fans to treat them like charities shows how badly those running our game have done.

I agree entirely. I have a ST and contribute to HSL but I must admit to feeling uncomfortable with the perception that attending matches is no longer enough. I don’t see putting the squeeze on fans, as you put it, as a sustainable business model.

[Sioux]

As far as I'm concerned Hearts aren't showing us how to support our club - blind support no matter what isn't right from a financial point of view. We are not the establishment club that gets bailed out after we enjoy success after not paying tax. We're the club that would go out of business in all likelihood. Hearts fans largely enjoyed that success blindly, just as they are content giving money to club blindly. HSL and Hibs are taking correct position on this one, the fans lives are more important and only those in a position to give should.

As for Petrie and Farmer stuff, until they leave, fans have every right to hold certain thoughts regarding them. Supporting a club isn't free. If I'm paying for anything as far as I'm concerned I'm allowed to have opinions on it.

At the end of the day, beyond Hibs doing social work to help community, what do the club do for free to help most fans on a personal level? That goes for any club in the world. If Hearts fans don't see success shortly they will have pitchforks ready. They'll be expecting something for their cash.

What is it you want the club to give you for free? Pay your mortgage/rent? Take you out for dinner?

Ask not what your club can do for you, but what you can do for your club - (c)J F Kennedy. On the basis that as a Hibs fan(?) you are the club, you are giving the money (season tickets, HSl contributions etc) to yourself!!

[Pagan Hibernia]

c. Our key milestones are set out on our website i.e. 20% shareholding and we gain Board representation , 25.1 % shareholding and we acquire a meaningful stake in our Club. Beyond that we can't say as the depends on our principal shareholder and indeed it also depends on our appetite for greater ownership



What percentage are we sitting at now HSL?

The figures on the website don’t appear to have been updated for a while and going by what has been said on this thread we’ve raised many thousands more since it was last updated.

I know a lot of people don’t care about the shareholding side of things, but equally a lot of HSL contributors like myself do!

[madhatter]

What is it you want the club to give you for free? Pay your mortgage/rent? Take you out for dinner?

Ask not what your club can do for you, but what you can do for your club - (c)J F Kennedy. On the basis that as a Hibs fan(?) you are the club, you are giving the money (season tickets, HSl contributions etc) to yourself!!

Think you've completely missed my point. Also, while there is a deeper connection to a football club, should we view a subscription to Netflix and Spotify as us becoming Netflix and Spotify? By buying a season ticket, I'm certainly not giving money to myself. Just as paying a monthly sub to Netflix doesn't make me money. Both cause an expense in funds and time.

I don't want the club to give me anything for free. My point is more we are supposed to be civilised people in 21st century that go along to the football to enjoy football. Not as some innate duty, almost tribalistic. Likewise on financial backing of a football club, it's our right to back it or not. We are fans of football first surely, if Hibs weren't around I'd still like football.

Club give me nothing material. I choose to give the club money and choose to spend money to travel to games. It's a choice, not a duty. I'm glad HSL are running with this as club directly asking fans for money in tough times is very poor.

[Sioux]

Think you've completely missed my point. Also, while there is a deeper connection to a football club, should we view a subscription to Netflix and Spotify as us becoming Netflix and Spotify? By buying a season ticket, I'm certainly not giving money to myself. Just as paying a monthly sub to Netflix doesn't make me money. Both cause an expense in funds and time.

I don't want the club to give me anything for free. My point is more we are supposed to be civilised people in 21st century that go along to the football to enjoy football. Not as some innate duty, almost tribalistic. Likewise on financial backing of a football club, it's our right to back it or not. We are fans of football first surely, if Hibs weren't around I'd still like football.

Club give me nothing material. I choose to give the club money and choose to spend money to travel to games. It's a choice, not a duty. I'm glad HSL are running with this as club directly asking fans for money in tough times is very poor.

Ok I did pick you up at the wrong stop :greengrin

Busy at work!

[malcolm]

As far as I'm concerned Hearts aren't showing us how to support our club - blind support no matter what isn't right from a financial point of view. We are not the establishment club that gets bailed out after we enjoy success after not paying tax. We're the club that would go out of business in all likelihood. Hearts fans largely enjoyed that success blindly, just as they are content giving money to club blindly. HSL and Hibs are taking correct position on this one, the fans lives are more important and only those in a position to give should.

As for Petrie and Farmer stuff, until they leave, fans have every right to hold certain thoughts regarding them. Supporting a club isn't free. If I'm paying for anything as far as I'm concerned I'm allowed to have opinions on it.

At the end of the day, beyond Hibs doing social work to help community, what do the club do for free to help most fans on a personal level? That goes for any club in the world. If Hearts fans don't see success shortly they will have pitchforks ready. They'll be expecting something for their cash.

A right indeed to hold whatever thoughts they like but not necessarily rooted in logic, fact or common sense. It’s perhaps a bandwagon belief that some climb aboard, a seemingly irrational aversion or an easy excuse. No one should expect that any others should put a penny into the club but the likes of the Petrie/farmer/ponzi patter is pure pants. :greengrin

[OfficialHSL]

Number 2 is the main one for me. Start a parallel fund called "Into Hecky's pocket" or whatever where the only guarantee was that every penny given to it would form part of the 1st squad transfer budget. Not the "footballing activities" budget, the 1st squad transfer budget. No need to faff about with shares, certificates or the like. Or, do away with the "fan ownership/representation" element of HSL, but I appreciate that's highly unlikely.

lyonhibs

So if we add a button stating "Into Hecky's pocket" you will join HSL ?


HSL

[Iggy Pope]

Would love to have you on board again but we have to be honest and say that Paypal was excluded as the cost implications ( we don't just mean individual collection costs ) just could not justify it.

Would be really interested to understand what the issues are with Go Cardless or Stripe to see if we could find a resolution ?


HSL

I haven’t had a proof of payment receipt from Go Cardless for months and months. Years.
Any idea why that might be?

[OfficialHSL]

I haven’t had a proof of payment receipt from Go Cardless for months and months. Years.
Any idea why that might be?

Iggy

We are sorry about that but Go Cardless stopped sending these out a couple of years ago. Of course you can check your Members page to make sure you are getting the credit for your payments. Any problem just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk


We have had a rather subdued response to the wonderful news that our new Management team were supporting the cause. Come on guys/gals lets show them that we are right behind them.


HSL