Loyalty / Attendance Points

[Duncan Smith]

Hi folks,

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LoyaltyAttendancePoints

I’ve created this survey to gauge supporters opinion on the reintroduction of Loyalty / Attendance Points.

Please share this on any Hibernian Facebook / Twitter / Forums that you’re a member of.

I am aware that this topic has already been raised and it was a NO from the Board.

However if it can be shown that there is a strong appetite backed in numbers for the reintroduction of the points then we have to open proper discussion with the the club.

As a candidate for this years Supporter Representative, I would intend to use these results as a starter to open the discussions with the board should I be elected to represent you.

My reason for creating the survey is that I have had many conversation with supporters recently in person and on social media advocating a return.

Supporters points raised so far :

* Current System of purchasing Away Season Ticket (AST) does not work for everyone, although a ticket has been purchased for every away match, supporters are not always able to make the match leaving the supporter out of pocket

*Away Season Tickets (AST) wont allow you to sit with friends or family who pay at the gate at away matches where seating is allocated.

*Supporters who don’t have an AST but regularly go to every away match are frustrated at the current online / telephone lottery system to purchase Cat A away tickets

*Supporters who have only had a ticket for one season may be disadvantaged when trying to purchase away tickets should the points system be introduced.

*With low attendances at Elgin, Raith and Celtic. Would more supporters have attended the match knowing they would receive additional Loyalty / Attendance Points

Please add in any more constructive points for or against the reintroduction.

[Michael]

Are loyalty points as contentious at other clubs? Can't we just copy someone else who has happy fans?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Are loyalty points as contentious at other clubs? Can't we just copy someone else who has happy fans?

Hearts'.

Literally copy it word for word and we are sorted.

Anybody who objects to it can bolt, quite frankly, it is the definition of fairness.

[Malthibby]

Hearts'.

Literally copy it word for word and we are sorted.

Anybody who objects to it can bolt, quite frankly, it is the definition of fairness.

If Hearts' is the answer, the question's wrong

[Hibeesmad]

Cardiff have a system of selling away tickets firstly to supporters who are season ticket holders and went to a minimum of 5 away games the previous season. Even something as simple as this would make sure those who follow the club to almost every away match without an away season ticket have an advantage of getting a ticket for the games in demand.

[Hermit Crab]

Done, I want them back, even as an AST holder. Its the fairest way. Why should someone who's attended 80-90% of away matches but cant justify an away season ticket due to games missed possibly lose out to someone who fancies Hearts away and its their first away game of the season?

#bringthemback

[Hermit Crab]

Cardiff have a system of selling away tickets firstly to supporters who are season ticket holders and went to a minimum of 5 away games the previous season. Even something as simple as this would make sure those who follow the club to almost every away match without an away season ticket have an advantage of getting a ticket for the games in demand.


Too hard to control as most aways for us are PATG, except Heaets, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen.

[0762]

Done, I want them back, even as an AST holder. Its the fairest way. Why should someone who's attended 80-90% of away matches but cant justify an away season ticket due to games missed possibly lose out to someone who fancies Hearts away and its their first away game of the season?

#bringthemback


Oh so correct Hermit Crab :top marks

[Hibeesmad]

Too hard to control as most aways for us are PATG, except Heaets, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen.

Surely it could be controlled the same way points gathered for loyalty points would be controlled, fans would have to buy tickets directly from the club to receive points.

[greenlad]

Too hard to control as most aways for us are PATG, except Hearts, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen.

Been at every away match this season except Rangers and Aberdeen and I've had a ticket for each one. Unless you mean there's been a PATG option. But if folk want the points/preference they know they'd need to buy the tickets through Hibs in advance.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Surely it could be controlled the same way points gathered for loyalty points would be controlled, fans would have to buy tickets directly from the club to receive points.


not just directed at yourself but out of curiosity, where would walk-up fans come in to the loyalty points equation, a walk-up that goes to (especially)a fair few home games and some away games, what would happen at Semi-final/Final games, would they have the same chance of getting a ticket as say a fan that has not been to ANY home games, this system cannot be called 'loyalty points' whilst fans 'half loyal' have the same chance of a ticket as the 'one game a season' fan, regular walk-ups MUST surely be included in any 'loyalty points' scheme.

[Kojock]

Points should only be awarded for match attendance not for buying a pie etc

[Carheenlea]

not just directed at yourself but out of curiosity, where would walk-up fans come in to the loyalty points equation, a walk-up that goes to (especially)a fair few home games and some away games, what would happen at Semi-final/Final games, would they have the same chance of getting a ticket as say a fan that has not been to ANY home games, this system cannot be called 'loyalty points' whilst fans 'half loyal' have the same chance of a ticket as the 'one game a season' fan, regular walk-ups MUST surely be included in any 'loyalty points' scheme.

It was the points system that changed my habit from paying at the gate at away games to purchasing a ticket in advance. Would always have known within a week if it was a game I was able to go to, so it wasn’t really a major upheaval.

[neil7908]

Completed. It's a total no brainier and utterly bizarre that we aren't doing this.

[Hiber-nation]

Done. Bring them back!

[Billy Whizz]

Done

[Scouse Hibee]

Done

[Keith_M]

not just directed at yourself but out of curiosity, where would walk-up fans come in to the loyalty points equation, a walk-up that goes to (especially)a fair few home games and some away games, what would happen at Semi-final/Final games, would they have the same chance of getting a ticket as say a fan that has not been to ANY home games, this system cannot be called 'loyalty points' whilst fans 'half loyal' have the same chance of a ticket as the 'one game a season' fan, regular walk-ups MUST surely be included in any 'loyalty points' scheme.


I'm in favour of re-introducing Loyalty Points but that's a fair question and any new system would have to find an answer.

[Diclonius]

Already voted for you Duncan knowing full well you're trying to make an issue of this - keep up the good work. :aok:

[Keith_M]

Done

[green day]

I already know the answer to this but perhaps - for balance - Duncan should explain what happened with the previous LP system and why it was dumped?

[DetroitHibs]

This is the best time to hit LD with the loyalty scheme points. She knows season ticket sales will be down and might give in on the subject, instead of digging her heels in.

[K.Marx]

As someone who benefits from the tynecastle free for all, I still vote for loyalty points to be reintroduced. By far the fairest system (if done properly)

[marinello59]

This is the best time to hit LD with the loyalty scheme points. She knows season ticket sales will be down and might give in on the subject, instead of digging her heels in.

If demand has fallen.... and it has...then there is less need for a loyalty points scheme.

[DetroitHibs]

If demand has fallen.... and it has...then there is less need for a loyalty points scheme.

It would be nice to have that cemented in for the future though. The diehard fans that go week in week out should be rewarded over other fans that pick and choose.

[green with envy]

In favour and survey completed.

[oneone73]

Done. In favour, even though I haven't managed an away game so far this season.

[Hibbyradge]

What were the reasons behind the decision to stop the previous scheme?

[green day]

What were the reasons behind the decision to stop the previous scheme?

I mentioned this upthread - it is important - here is the official text:

By: Hibernian Media on 01 Mar, 2016 16:10












A sub-group of the Working Together forum met at Easter Road on Monday night to review the loyalty points scheme which has been the subject of much discussion in recent months. The group included Leeann Dempster, board members Frank Dougan and Amit Moudgil alongside a number of fans, some of whom are involved in supporters clubs and some who are not. Hibernian Supporters Limited (HSL) were also represented and Colin Millar, Communications Manager, and Greig Mailer, Head of Marketing & Commercial Operations, made up the group.

The aims of the loyalty points scheme were outlined:
- To help grow the fanbase
- To encourage fans to attend more matches
- To reward fans who attend the most matches
- To reduce queuing times for the busiest away matches
- To encourage more fans to register and purchase tickets online
- To help ensure that the club database is kept up to date and accurate.

A number of discussion points and issues were raised and debated:
- The number of waves of sales based on the number of loyalty points should be reviewed, the pros and cons of more/less waves was debated.
- Fans who attend all games, home and away, should have priority access to tickets.
- Issues relating to disabled fans to ensure they are able to purchase tickets with their carers where needed.
- The decision to award HSL members with loyalty points was debated, as was the concept of rewarding fans for other commitments, for example the purchase of shares or merchandise. Linked to this was the idea that the club could operate a separate system of ‘reward’ points that is not linked to attendance at matches.
- The current structure, where points are accumulated on a three-year rolling basis, was discussed. There was mixed views as to whether this was fair or if this reinforces the position of the fans with the most points at the top of the scale.
- While many fans have no issues in managing their online accounts, the number of enquiries which the club receives suggests that some supporters have difficulties – the suggestion was raised as to whether the scheme could be simplified.
- The need to ensure that season ticket holders benefit from whatever structure is put in place.
- The use of the term ‘loyalty points’ was questioned in that it can be seen to be provocative/divisive to some fans.
- Complaints had been received that the scheme has unintentionally devalued the season ticket offering.
- It was noted that only three matches, since the introduction of the scheme, had not went to public sale – two matches at Ibrox against Rangers and one match against Hearts at Tynecastle.
- That some fans were feeling excluded from the scheme if they could not afford to attend every match or were only able to attend some matches due to other commitments.
- The ticket office faces a growing amount of pressure and enquires relating to the scheme which has taken up a considerable amount of administrative resource.

The achievements of the scheme to date were also noted:
- Despite the above issues, many fans have welcomed the introduction which had been called for by fan groups for a number of years – meaning tickets can be allocated on a fairer basis.
- Over 5,000 additional supporter records are now active on the club database.
- More and more fans are purchasing tickets online.
- HSL membership grew noticeably following the loyalty points announcement – helping to generate additional investment into the club.

Some solutions were floated but it was agreed that the club reflects on the session and brings forward recommendations and options for review at the next meeting which addressed the issues that have been raised.
The date of the next meeting was set to be held on Monday 21 March at Easter Road.

[green day]

.........and the result

As you may know, the Club has been reviewing the Loyalty Points system for a number of months.
This has taken a little longer than we would have liked as a result of other issues that we had to prioritise, but we needed to take enough time to review and consider a range of opinion from supporters, both those in the working group on loyalty points and others who offered their feedback following our request in March (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/6249). All of the opinions and feedback have been well rehearsed and debated from each perspective - and with that I would like to thank all supporters who have contributed to the discussion and been involved in our Working Together forums. It now requires a decision.
The Club has to make decisions we believe in, but also to reflect that sometimes we get it wrong or that our decisions and actions have unexpected consequences.
I think the decision to create a loyalty points scheme was well intended, but it is one that has failed on more levels than it’s been successful on. But we also need to recognise that supporters who travel to away matches play a vital role in supporting the team, and that getting access to away tickets can be stressful for those who travel week in week out.
We’ve investigated whether it is possible to achieve the desired outcomes which for me are as straightforward as this:
- eliminate the negativity around loyalty points while building the value of season tickets
- being consistent and supportive of those who want to travel
I believe we have come up with a solution that will do both, so it is my decision now to stop the loyalty points programme and to make available to those who may want it an ‘Away Season Ticket’ which would guarantee a ticket to those who travel week in, week out, and who want to commit to every away league game.
We will limit the number of these available based on the historic number of fans who travel to every away match whilst maintaining the availability of away tickets for those home season ticket holders who may also want to travel.
The detail needs to be finalised but, effectively, if you were to sign up for an ‘Away Season Ticket’ you would be guaranteed a ticket and your payment would automatically be taken from a debit or credit card. This would be an automated process with no manual element other than the early set up and you would be required to sign up for all away league fixtures. Once we have finalised these details we will provide a further update to inform everyone how it will work.
This model already operates in other Clubs in Scotland and England and I feel that we have now struck a balance of looking after and supporting those who want to travel all the time and also home season ticket holders who also want access to some away matches.
It is important to stress that this relates to games where we will receive tickets to sell. All things being equal we think that will be every match, but there is a slight possibility that a club may decide to run a simple pay at the gate operation rather than give tickets to Hibernian to sell. This would mean that the away season ticket would not apply. Unlikely but possible, so worth noting.
Given our league opponents this year it is our estimation that the only real pressure on tickets will probably be Dumbarton and Falkirk, and this is manageable.
On domestic Cup matches we will soon be announcing a replacement for the Cup Top up scheme, and this does not form part of what I have outlined above.
This has been a long and at times stressful discussion but given the learning of the past two seasons and the challenges we’ve seen, I believe we have now come up with a solution that will work.
As with the introduction of loyalty points, the decision is based on what we believe to be correct, but we will continue to look at ways to improve our ticketing schemes going forward.

[Hibeewilly]

In favour and survey completed.
Same here...done

[green day]

So - lets be crystal clear on this that Hibs were reacting to fans who said the LP system didnt work.

If anyone goes back to Hibs, its going to have to be a different solution and not just "as you were" or the same people who hated it before will hate it again.



p.s. I liked the old system, but probably because I had a shedload of points :greengrin

[HibeeMassive]

What were the reasons behind the decision to stop the previous scheme?

Sure I heard someone recently (Frank's candidate interview, perhaps?) say that it was because of the complexity and additional workload for the staff involved. I get the feeling it must have been costing a good bit of £££ to run it with how we had it structured previously.

But we also know that there was the whole HSL "free" points issue, when you signed up during a certain period and could get more points than someone who had been to every away game that season. Not sure how much involvement the club had in this decision, or if it was an HSL choice, but either way it was the straw that broke the camels back.

[Blaster]

So - lets be crystal clear on this that Hibs were reacting to fans who said the LP system didnt work.

If anyone goes back to Hibs, its going to have to be a different solution and not just "as you were" or the same people who hated it before will hate it again.


p.s. I liked the old system, but probably because I had a shedload of points :greengrin


It shouldn’t be too difficult. There wasn’t much wrong with it but should be restricted to attending games only. And no points awarded for attending games where away tickets are restricted

I think you could also take ticket stubbs in after games if you PATG which meant extra work for the ticket office. I’d scrap that idea too. Only awarded for pre purchased tickets

[green day]

Sure I heard someone recently (Frank's candidate interview, perhaps?) say that it was because of the complexity and additional workload for the staff involved. I get the feeling it must have been costing a good bit of £££ to run it with how we had it structured previously.

But we also know that there was the whole HSL "free" points issue, when you signed up during a certain period and could get more points than someone who had been to every away game that season. Not sure how much involvement the club had in this decision, or if it was an HSL choice, but either way it was the straw that broke the camels back.

Look at my 2 posts at the end of page 1.........

[Carheenlea]

Sure I heard someone recently (Frank's candidate interview, perhaps?) say that it was because of the complexity and additional workload for the staff involved. I get the feeling it must have been costing a good bit of £££ to run it with how we had it structured previously.

But we also know that there was the whole HSL "free" points issue, when you signed up during a certain period and could get more points than someone who had been to every away game that season. Not sure how much involvement the club had in this decision, or if it was an HSL choice, but either way it was the straw that broke the camels back.

Everyone knows the HSL points killed it dead, so don’t know why they can’t just admit that rather than using the excuses about staff abuse and cost. Mistakes happen, but it’s more important to learn from the mistakes.
A club our size, and with our fanbase and support at both home and away matches, a loyalty point system should be mandatory.

[JJP]

I’m not a season ticket holder currently, but I’ve always felt that if a supporter purchases a season ticket they have shown enough loyalty to the club to be able to purchase tickets for any games at the first available opportunity. Why complicate matters?

[Carheenlea]

I’m not a season ticket holder currently, but I’ve always felt that if a supporter purchases a season ticket they have shown enough loyalty to the club to be able to purchase tickets for any games at the first available opportunity. Why complicate matters?

It’s not really complicated to suggest that the fans who have travelled to support the team at away matches the most are given the first chance of tickets for away matches where demand is highest and tickets are in shorter supply. It’s simply about fairness.

[Hibbyradge]

I’m not a season ticket holder currently, but I’ve always felt that if a supporter purchases a season ticket they have shown enough loyalty to the club to be able to purchase tickets for any games at the first available opportunity. Why complicate matters?

There are 13000 ST members. We get 900 tickets at Ibrox and 4000 at the PBS.

[green day]

It’s not really complicated to suggest that the fans who have travelled to support the team at away matches the most are given the first chance of tickets for away matches where demand is highest and tickets are in shorter supply. It’s simply about fairness.

On the face of it thats very simple, sensible and fair...........however what it also means is that only fans who currently attend these away games get to the "top pf the tree" on LPs and will never be dislodged as long as they continue to attend all matches including Rangers and Celtic where we get hardly any tickets.

The result is a cohort of fans who can always get to away matches, and then a larger group (all other fans) who can never gain enough points to actually attend all away matches.

This results in a smallish group (say 800-1000) who get first dibs at Tynecastle then basically a free for all for the remainder.

So, what I am saying is, you dont have to scratch under the surface too far to determine that its not that simple.

p.s. All clubs have issues, I know Celtc fans rage that the Green Brigade get plum tickets together for every away match.

[Eric]

Duncan I'm pleased to see that you've used the term "Loyalty/Attendance" to define these points.

The straw that broke the camel's back with Loyalty Points was the allocation of points to those joining HSL. From a loyalty point of view this was correct and as an HST member I received mine. However these points were used exclusively for match attendance, not for "loyalty", and could be grouped in tranches. Making it easier for fans who have a good attendance record to get tickets makes sense.

[The 90+2]

Done.

Loyalty points should imo be for paying for a ticket for away and cup games only. Then there is no muddy water.

[The 90+2]

I’m not a season ticket holder currently, but I’ve always felt that if a supporter purchases a season ticket they have shown enough loyalty to the club to be able to purchase tickets for any games at the first available opportunity. Why complicate matters?

Fans who go week in week out should be rewarded. Look how empty the North lower (family stand aye right) is most of the time. You attend more away games and have a season ticket then you should be rewarded for that and it's fair.

It's about time the club started looking after the most loyal supporters.

[Hibbyradge]

Just stamping our feet and shouting "we want them back" will have no effect, regardless of how many people do it.

The only way the board will entertain the idea is if you offer solutions to the problems that caused it to be scrapped in the first place.

I have no vested interest in this issue because of where I live so I think I can look at it objectively.

How much of a genuine need for a scheme is there?

How often has a regular away supporter missed out on a ticket?

Has there been enough "unfairness" evidenced to warrant the extra expense to the club that maintaining a scheme would require?

How are HSL contributers treated?

What should the scheme be called if "Loyalty" points is divisive?

[Hibbyradge]

Duncan I'm pleased to see that you've used the term "Loyalty/Attendance" to define these points.

The straw that broke the camel's back with Loyalty Points was the allocation of points to those joining HSL. From a loyalty point of view this was correct and as an HST member I received mine. However these points were used exclusively for match attendance, not for "loyalty", and could be grouped in tranches. Making it easier for fans who have a good attendance record to get tickets makes sense.

How would ST holders be treated in the scheme?

[GreenCastle]

It’s not really complicated to suggest that the fans who have travelled to support the team at away matches the most are given the first chance of tickets for away matches where demand is highest and tickets are in shorter supply. It’s simply about fairness.

I think it's hard to argue this.

From my point of view I think a rewards scheme / priority scheme is the way forward.

Stay away from LOYALTY points name.

A few things I didn't like about previous system...

1. It wasn't consistent - certain games got points - others didn't. Some away games for example plus Hamden semi final when Hibs DIDN'T fill full allocation - going still deserves recognition.

2. It's hard to stop the rich - getting richer with more and more points - in a way you could say it's fair. But the issue is how do others ever get a chance to attend an away game - does the scheme re-set ? How often? Bit unfair if you build up rewards then get them taken away.

3. I've said for a while - rather than Away ticket season ticket - just simply have away travel membership - this get's priority before home season tickets and means Hibs benefit rather than away teams. But it at start of season with your ST if you plan to attend away games. Though there is still a ballot for high demand games - mainly Hearts away.

4. Or just have a simple system where away games you go into a ballot for high demand games for all ST holders who show interest to attend.

5. The other issue is when games are Pay at the gate - these rewards aren't recorded. Again an issue which happened previously.

6. Stop a way of others collecting points on your behalf - this happened previously.

7. I still think we should be looking at a Hibs membership - that rewards home attendance and away - then you may see more attend games like the cup tie against Celtic if it helps there chances attend an away derby.

I feel a system is needed - but it needs to be simple - fair and consistent.

[ancient hibee]

Hearts'.

Literally copy it word for word and we are sorted.

Anybody who objects to it can bolt, quite frankly, it is the definition of fairness.

Is this a record?
Good start.Second response and you're ready to fall out with other supporters who don't agree with you.

[The Modfather]

Hi folks,

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LoyaltyAttendancePoints

I’ve created this survey to gauge supporters opinion on the reintroduction of Loyalty / Attendance Points.

Please share this on any Hibernian Facebook / Twitter / Forums that you’re a member of.

I am aware that this topic has already been raised and it was a NO from the Board.

However if it can be shown that there is a strong appetite backed in numbers for the reintroduction of the points then we have to open proper discussion with the the club.

As a candidate for this years Supporter Representative, I would intend to use these results as a starter to open the discussions with the board should I be elected to represent you.

My reason for creating the survey is that I have had many conversation with supporters recently in person and on social media advocating a return.

Supporters points raised so far :

* Current System of purchasing Away Season Ticket (AST) does not work for everyone, although a ticket has been purchased for every away match, supporters are not always able to make the match leaving the supporter out of pocket

*Away Season Tickets (AST) wont allow you to sit with friends or family who pay at the gate at away matches where seating is allocated.

*Supporters who don’t have an AST but regularly go to every away match are frustrated at the current online / telephone lottery system to purchase Cat A away tickets

*Supporters who have only had a ticket for one season may be disadvantaged when trying to purchase away tickets should the points system be introduced.

*With low attendances at Elgin, Raith and Celtic. Would more supporters have attended the match knowing they would receive additional Loyalty / Attendance Points

Please add in any more constructive points for or against the reintroduction.

Hi Duncan,

I’ve completed the survey.

Not wholly related to loyalty points but can I ask that the following point be added to the discussion regardless of what does or doesn’t happen with loyalty points. The whole ticket system suitability when it comes to tickets for Tynecastle, Ibrox & Parkhead. The current system can’t handle thousands of people trying to buy tickets at the same time, from simply being unable to log in to tickets disappearing from your basket.

Ticketmaster handles tens of thousands of people buying tickets for big gigs no problem, yet Hibs don’t appear interested in doing anything about what has been an ongoing issue for years now.

Cheers

[CB_NO3]

Just copy Hearts. They seem to have no issues at all with their model.

[green day]

Just copy Hearts. They seem to have no issues at all with their model.

You mean the one that ensures the fans that attend every match (e.g. Celtic park) get first dibs and hence blocks anyone else from getting to that level?

You dont think that one has flaws or Hearts fans complaining?

[The 90+2]

You mean the one that ensures the fans that attend every match (e.g. Celtic park) get first dibs and hence blocks anyone else from getting to that level?

You dont think that one has flaws or Hearts fans complaining?

Points should be reset at the end of seasons.

Set points for all season ticket holders.

Points gained per away match and season card actually being used on match day.

Simples. :greengrin

[Steven79]

Points should be reset at the end of seasons.

Set points for all season ticket holders.

Points gained per away match and season card actually being used on match day.

Simples. :greengrin

Yeah but if a game at Tynecastle or one of the cheeks is at or near the start of the season then what happens as everybody would be on the same points.

[The 90+2]

Yeah but if a game at Tynecastle or one of the cheeks is at or near the start of the season then what happens as everybody would be on the same points.

Season ticket ballot. It might even encourage more people to enlist in the away season scheme. No reward points granted for any Cat A away games.

[HibeeHibernian4]

On the face of it thats very simple, sensible and fair...........however what it also means is that only fans who currently attend these away games get to the "top pf the tree" on LPs and will never be dislodged as long as they continue to attend all matches including Rangers and Celtic where we get hardly any tickets.

The result is a cohort of fans who can always get to away matches, and then a larger group (all other fans) who can never gain enough points to actually attend all away matches.

This results in a smallish group (say 800-1000) who get first dibs at Tynecastle then basically a free for all for the remainder.

So, what I am saying is, you dont have to scratch under the surface too far to determine that its not that simple.

Nope, nope and nope again.

We recently have begun selling out our allocation at three out of eleven SPFL Premiership grounds. Between about 2009 to 2013, we hardly ever sold out our allocation at any of them. Half empty Roseburns, four or five hundred in Glasgow, you name it.

With Hearts away (ie the biggest game for the bandwagon jumpers), if you looked after the current 1,500 regular travellers, there would still be 2,000+ tickets available for folk who don’t go to (m)any away matches. Nobody, and I mean nobody, would be given zero chance of a ticket, just a reduced one, which is basic fairness.

One thing I would agree is that, for games where we sell out before it goes to general sale/outwith the first LP threshold, you shouldn’t get a point for buying a ticket. So if there’s a mad scramble, no extra LP for anybody.

[HibeeHibernian4]

You mean the one that ensures the fans that attend every match (e.g. Celtic park) get first dibs and hence blocks anyone else from getting to that level?

You dont think that one has flaws or Hearts fans complaining?

It really doesn’t. I have a couple of Hearts mates and they are constantly flummoxed by our lack of a loyalty points scheme.

There are never any threads on their forums about it either, I think they are as close to unanimous as a support can be on it.

[green day]

Nope, nope and nope again.

We recently have begun selling out our allocation at three out of eleven SPFL Premiership grounds. Up until about 2013, we never sold out our allocation at any of them. Half empty Roseburns, four or five hundred in Glasgow, you name it.

With Hearts away (ie the biggest game for the bandwagon jumpers), if you looked after the current 1,500 regular travellers, there would still be 2,000+ tickets available for folk who don’t go to (m)any away matches. Nobody, and I mean nobody, would be given zero chance of a ticket, just a reduced one, which is basic fairness.

One thing I would agree is that, for games where we sell out before it goes to general sale/outwith the first LP threshold, you shouldn’t get a point for buying a ticket. So if there’s a mad scramble, no extra LP for anybody.

I didnt say that nobody got zero chance, I said it was a free for all which is the same as a "reduced chance" surely ???

So, back to your "basic fairness" point, and playing devils advocate - If we have 1500 regular away fans, is it reasonable that only those top 8/900 who have a ticket at Ibrox in August and hence rack up the max loyalty points are the people with enough points to ever get the chance to go to Ibrox again?

I am a wee bit confused, because that seems - to me - not to be "basic fairness":wink:

[CB_NO3]

You mean the one that ensures the fans that attend every match (e.g. Celtic park) get first dibs and hence blocks anyone else from getting to that level?

You dont think that one has flaws or Hearts fans complaining?
Hearts have not sold out Parkhead in many a year. So anyone who wants to go to Parkhead or any ground with the exception of Easter Road will get a ticket with no issue. What it does do, is gives the guys who go to most away games a chance to get first dips on the games that they do sell out e.g. Easter Road. I think that is pretty fair.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I didnt say that nobody got zero chance, I said it was a free for all which is the same as a "reduced chance" surely ???

So, back to your "basic fairness" point, and playing devils advocate - If we have 1500 regular away fans, is it reasonable that only those top 8/900 who have a ticket at Ibrox in August and hence rack up the max loyalty points are the people with enough points to ever get the chance to go to Ibrox again?

I am a wee bit confused, because that seems - to me - not to be "basic fairness":wink:

No, that’s not how it works at all, you have tranches, so that everybody over a certain number of points would have a shot. Furthermore, if you attended every other away game in the season, you would invariably overtake a good proportion of those people anyway. And, as I’ve just said, don’t add points to people’s total where they got a ticket in a highly in demand away game. Only for games at the other 8, but that will drop off soon enough and it’ll be all 11.

I feel like folk come up with these hypotheticals (which never seem to trip up Hearts’ loyalty points system) in order to obfuscate things in this debate and basically just use it as a way to help decrease the chances of them being reinstated.

The fundamental fact is, at some point in the future Hibs will go back to selling half the Roseburn and half of our allocation in Glasgow, and we should have a Loyalty Point system ready to reward those who stick with the club, so that when our fortunes have an upswing again, they’re the ones who are given first refusal on tickets. Very, very simple.

[Liam978]

Just stamping our feet and shouting "we want them back" will have no effect, regardless of how many people do it.

The only way the board will entertain the idea is if you offer solutions to the problems that caused it to be scrapped in the first place.

I have no vested interest in this issue because of where I live so I think I can look at it objectively.

How much of a genuine need for a scheme is there?

How often has a regular away supporter missed out on a ticket?

Has there been enough "unfairness" evidenced to warrant the extra expense to the club that maintaining a scheme would require?

How are HSL contributers treated?

What should the scheme be called if "Loyalty" points is divisive?

The last time I was able to attend Tynecastle to see the "Cabbage" was v Bonnyrigg Rose. Not through the want of trying online for Derby tickets I might add. I have only been to 4 away games this season but I'm a season ticket holder,shareholder and Hsl member. So I would concur that it is very often in answer to your question.

[hibsforeurope]

I would be happy for them to return but for season ticket holders only. The club need to keep them as appealing as possible, any season ticket holder should get priority for tickets over a walk up fan for any away game.

[Hermit Crab]

It would be really simple to introduce and keep it manageable.


Anyone who had a home and away ST this season and renews would start next season on 30 points.

Anyone who had a season ticket this season and renews starts on 25 points.

Anyone buying a first time season ticket next season would start on 20 points.

Points would only awarded for buying tickets for away league matches and home and away cup matches.

Games at Tynecastle, Parkhead and Ibrox should see zero points awarded as there is high demand and limited availability.

Points should be awarded for every other away game if the form of 2 points per away match and 1 point for every home cup match.

No retrospective adding of points, if you want them, buy the tickets.

Sorry walk ups but you have to draw a line somewhere and with todays technology its now possible to buy a ticket online and print it or collect it 30 minutes or less before a match meaning you'd get you points so no excuses really.

The scheme should run for a 3 seasons, like Hearts then the last 2 seasons drop off and you start again.

Simple stuff folks.

[Famous Fiver]

How many points do I get for attending Hibs 3 Barcelona 2?

Or for that matter, Hibs 5 Napoli (Dino Zoff and all) 0.

Just asking.

[Hermit Crab]

I would be happy for them to return but for season ticket holders only. The club need to keep them as appealing as possible, any season ticket holder should get priority for tickets over a walk up fan for any away game.


Thats is slightly unfair though, everyone on the database should have the opportunity to collect points for games they attend imo.

[green day]

It would be really simple to introduce and keep it manageable.


Anyone who had a home and away ST this season and renews would start next season on 20 points.

Anyone who had a season ticket this season and renews starts on 15 points.

Anyone buying a first time season ticket next season would start on 10 points.

Points would only awarded for buying tickets for away league matches and home and away cup matches.

Games at Tynecastle, Parkhead and Ibrox should see zero points awarded as there is high demand and limited availability.

Points should be awarded for every other away game if the form of 2 points per away match and 1 point for every home cup match.

No retrospective adding of points, if you want them, buy the tickets.

Sorry walk ups but you have to draw a line somewhere and with todays technology its now possible to buy a ticket online and print it or collect it 30 minutes or less before a match meaning you'd get you points so no excuses really.

The scheme should run for a 3 seasons, like Hearts then the last 2 seasons drop off and you start again.

Simple stuff folks.

How Hearts do it -

Supporters receive Hearts Loyalty Points for:


Booking a ticket for home matches - 1 point per match
Buying a Season Ticket - 20 points
Booking tickets for away matches (where advanced sales apply) - varies

Hearts Loyalty Points are used to determine access to tickets for matches where there is high demand, such Semi-Finals and Finals or away matches.
Hearts Loyalty Points are valid for the current season (2018/19) and the previous season (2017/18). All points accumulated prior to these seasons will be removed before the start of this season

[Hermit Crab]

How Hearts do it -

Supporters receive Hearts Loyalty Points for:


Booking a ticket for home matches - 1 point per match
Buying a Season Ticket - 20 points
Booking tickets for away matches (where advanced sales apply) - varies

Hearts Loyalty Points are used to determine access to tickets for matches where there is high demand, such Semi-Finals and Finals or away matches.
Hearts Loyalty Points are valid for the current season (2018/19) and the previous season (2017/18). All points accumulated prior to these seasons will be removed before the start of this season



Simple stuff really. Hibs would need to make it clear from the start that if you've not got the required points you're not getting a ticket regardless if you're in a group or not no matter how much you kick and scream.

[hibsforeurope]

Thats is slightly unfair though, everyone on the database should have the opportunity to collect points for games they attend imo.

The amount of points gained should not be more than a season ticket holder has. Walk ups could have their own priority after season tickets and before general sales.

[Diclonius]

How Hearts do it -

Supporters receive Hearts Loyalty Points for:



Booking a ticket for home matches - 1 point per match
Buying a Season Ticket - 20 points
Booking tickets for away matches (where advanced sales apply) - varies


Hearts Loyalty Points are used to determine access to tickets for matches where there is high demand, such Semi-Finals and Finals or away matches.
Hearts Loyalty Points are valid for the current season (2018/19) and the previous season (2017/18). All points accumulated prior to these seasons will be removed before the start of this season

Sounds great. Simple and straightforward.

Our system is effectively as follows:

In the singing section, some of the supporters clubs, or away ST holder: first priority
ST holder: second priority
Everyone else: third priority

[Hermit Crab]

The amount of points gained should not be more than a season ticket holder has. Walk ups could have their own priority after season tickets and before general sales.


Edited my original post to reflect this.

Home and away ST this season and renew next season - 30 points

Home ST the season and renew next season - 25 points

New purchaser of a ST next season - 20 points.

[Hermit Crab]

Sounds great. Simple and straightforward.

Our system is effectively as follows:

In the singing section, some of the supporters clubs, or away ST holder: first priority
ST holder: second priority
Everyone else: third priority

[/FONT][/COLOR]


I've often wondered how the SS get tickets all together in the same place at Tynecastle every time we play there as theres no danger they all have AST's.

[Diclonius]

I've often wondered how the SS get tickets all together in the same place at Tynecastle every time we play there as theres no danger they all have AST's.

Think it's been covered before that they and some (all?) of the supporters clubs get an unannounced priority window before the tickets go on general sale to the rest of us.

[green with envy]

It would be really simple to introduce and keep it manageable.


Anyone who had a home and away ST this season and renews would start next season on 30 points.

Anyone who had a season ticket this season and renews starts on 25 points.

Anyone buying a first time season ticket next season would start on 20 points.

Points would only awarded for buying tickets for away league matches and home and away cup matches.

Games at Tynecastle, Parkhead and Ibrox should see zero points awarded as there is high demand and limited availability.

Points should be awarded for every other away game if the form of 2 points per away match and 1 point for every home cup match.

No retrospective adding of points, if you want them, buy the tickets.

Sorry walk ups but you have to draw a line somewhere and with todays technology its now possible to buy a ticket online and print it or collect it 30 minutes or less before a match meaning you'd get you points so no excuses really.

The scheme should run for a 3 seasons, like Hearts then the last 2 seasons drop off and you start again.

Simple stuff folks.

That just about sounds all straight forward and fair. Even though I don't have an away ST, this through principle and haven't missed an away game this season, your example would guarantee me a ticket for any away game that I would want to go to.

[Hermit Crab]

That just about sounds all straight forward and fair. Even though I don't have an away ST, this through principle and haven't missed an away game this season, your example would guarantee me a ticket for any away game that I would want to go to.


I wouldn't say it would guarantee you a ticket for Celtic and Rangers away but it would certainly put you in the second sales wave for these games. It is a fair system if managed properly.

[green with envy]

I wouldn't say it would guarantee you a ticket for Celtic and Rangers away but it would certainly put you in the second sales wave for these games. It is a fair system if managed properly.

Probably not for the first season right enough. It would (I think)? for the second in the likely scenario that I got tickets for celtic & rangers in the first season and attended the rest.

[GreenCastle]

Think it's been covered before that they and some (all?) of the supporters clubs get an unannounced priority window before the tickets go on general sale to the rest of us.

I’m all for the singing section getting seats that will help atmosphere at Away games. Some of the best games have been away when these guys have made a fantastic noise.

[Hermit Crab]

I’m all for the singing section getting seats that will help atmosphere at Away games. Some of the best games have been away when these guys have made a fantastic noise.


As am I but only when they are eligible, they shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to Hearts, Celtic or Rangers away.

This is the group that couldn't be arsed to turn up to Elgin and Raith at home but will kick down doors for Hearts away tickets.

[jax67]

If Hearts' is the answer, the question's wrong

Or 7-0 6-2

[Danderhall Hibs]

The biggest problem last time was the lack of clear comma around how it works. Then to add to that we have a vocal minority on twitter (and here) who look for reasons to stamp their feet. The 100 points for HSL didn’t impact on anyone getting a ticket.

Instead of the club being clear about the scheme and how to accumulate points they pandered to that minority.

[Wembley67]

You put money in the club you get rewarded...say every season ticketed game get's 1 point if used, every away game get's 1.5 points awarded, tally them up EASY.

It's embarrassing that we do not have anything in place for this and folk argue in-house over it.

I've not had a season ticket for many years and rarely attend now but without doubt the folk that are attending regularly should be getting rewarded over people like me who will attend a game at Hampden now and again (and there have never been ticket issues with that if you really wanted one).

Did I just read that the singing section get priority? Oh my sides....REALLY??!!!

[linlithgowhibbie]

Think it's been covered before that they and some (all?) of the supporters clubs get an unannounced priority window before the tickets go on general sale to the rest of us.

I can assure you that our supporters club (Linlithgow and Bo'ness) get no priority at all, neither have we asked for it! It was previously suggested that a supporters club had an "inside" contact that helped them. Whether this was ever proved or not I don't know.

[Hermit Crab]

You put money in the club you get rewarded...say every season ticketed game get's 1 point if used, every away game get's 1.5 points awarded, tally them up EASY.

It's embarrassing that we do not have anything in place for this and folk argue in-house over it.

I've not had a season ticket for many years and rarely attend now but without doubt the folk that are attending regularly should be getting rewarded over people like me who will attend a game at Hampden now and again (and there have never been ticket issues with that if you really wanted one).

Did I just read that the singing section get priority? Oh my sides....REALLY??!!!


The club will never admit it. They always get the same block of tickets at Tynecastle, I'm all for the group going to games and creating an atmosphere but they should not get prime seats at these away games.

[Liam978]

I can assure you that our supporters club (Linlithgow and Bo'ness) get no priority at all, neither have we asked for it! It was previously suggested that a supporters club had an "inside" contact that helped them. Whether this was ever proved or not I don't know.

With you on this one Brian, same applies to St Giles and most of the branches. However there is still a rumour that a particular branch have been going outwith the Association rules that stipulate: there will be no individual branch contact with the parent club. This must be done through the Association.

[Diclonius]

I can assure you that our supporters club (Linlithgow and Bo'ness) get no priority at all, neither have we asked for it! It was previously suggested that a supporters club had an "inside" contact that helped them. Whether this was ever proved or not I don't know.

Fair enough - I was only aware of one specific club (forget which) getting priority hence why I put all in brackets.

To be honest, the fact that it's only select clubs getting access - and therefore being "mates" with someone at the club getting you and your pals priority to high demand games - makes it even worse.

[Hermit Crab]

With you on this one Brian, same applies to St Giles and most of the branches. However there is still a rumour that a particular branch have been going outwith the Association rules that stipulate: there will be no individual branch contact with the parent club. This must be done through the Association.


Think all that stopped a few years ago after it became public.

[HibeeHibernian4]

The club will never admit it. They always get the same block of tickets at Tynecastle, I'm all for the group going to games and creating an atmosphere but they should not get prime seats at these away games.

They were in a different place at the October derby to the ones last season, no idea if that's just them being moved or not. I do agree that it does look like there's an element of them getting tickets off the club. Surely a lot of the main ones must be away season ticket holders? They're at almost every away game without fail, as far as I can see.

[franks]

Think it's been covered before that they and some (all?) of the supporters clubs get an unannounced priority window before the tickets go on general sale to the rest of us.

I'm a member of the supporters club and our branch run a bus to most away games. I can assure everyone that we do not have any priority for away tickets and in fact don't run a bus to the likes of parkhead and ipox as we can't get enough tickets. Not sure what the score is for the SS but supporter clubs have no priority.

[Liam978]

Think all that stopped a few years ago after it became public.

Maybe in theory, so I would suggest that either yourself or a representative from your branch attend a delegates meeting ( first Thursday of every month ) as "they" have been conspicuous by their absence. As have many others'

[Eyrie]

How Hearts do it -

Supporters receive Hearts Loyalty Points for:


Booking a ticket for home matches - 1 point per match
Buying a Season Ticket - 20 points
Booking tickets for away matches (where advanced sales apply) - varies

Hearts Loyalty Points are used to determine access to tickets for matches where there is high demand, such Semi-Finals and Finals or away matches.
Hearts Loyalty Points are valid for the current season (2018/19) and the previous season (2017/18). All points accumulated prior to these seasons will be removed before the start of this season

Sticks in the craw to admit it, but Hearts have got it almost right.

Only changes I'd make are that the points are tallied for the current and immediately previous seasons, and no points are awarded where an away game sells out.

[Hermit Crab]

Sticks in the craw to admit it, but Hearts have got it almost right.

Only changes I'd make are that the points are tallied for the current and immediately previous seasons, and no points are awarded where an away game sells out.


No points for the big 3 aways, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers but points should be awarded for all other aways.

[Gloucester Hibs]

No points for the big 3 aways, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers but points should be awarded for all other aways.

You've probably covered it, but IMO season ticket holders should always have a 'chance' of getting a ticket for the big away games. If this means you need to split the allocations into 2 separate waves, with the first one attendance points-based and the later one open to all ST holders, so be it.

[Hermit Crab]

You've probably covered it, but IMO season ticket holders should always have a 'chance' of getting a ticket for the big away games. If this means you need to split the allocations into 2 separate waves, with the first one attendance points-based and the later one open to all ST holders, so be it.


But all ST holders would have points for buying a ST ticket anyway. All tickets sales should be points based

[Gloucester Hibs]

But all ST holders would have points for buying a ST ticket anyway. All tickets sales should be points based

Even if that excludes some ST holders as they have accumulated insufficient points? IIRC this was one of the contentious issues that led to loyalty points being scrapped (along with ticket office staff getting abuse?)

What I've suggested represents a compromise - you get your loyalty points back but every ST holder still has a shot at a ticket for the big games, thus preserving the value of the ST.

[Hermit Crab]

Even if that excludes some ST holders as they have accumulated insufficient points? IIRC this was one of the contentious issues that led to loyalty points being scrapped (along with ticket office staff getting abuse?)

What I've suggested represents a compromise - you get your loyalty points back but every ST holder still has a shot at a ticket for the big games, thus preserving the value of the ST.


If some season ticket holders do not have the required points for a big game then thats just the way it is, the onus is on them completely, to buy tickets and attend the less popular away matches such as Hamilton and Aberdeen.

[Eric]

How would ST holders be treated in the scheme?

As previously, ST holders would be given points on purchase of their ST for the total number of games covered by their ST. Non ST holders would build up their points as and when they purchased tickets.

[Gloucester Hibs]

If some season ticket holders do not have the require points then thats just the way it is, the onus is on them to buy tickets and attend the less popular away matches such as Hamilton and Aberdeen on a Tuesday night.

I actually agree with you, but if I mind right this is what caused some ST holders to spit the dummy and threaten not to renew as they perceived the value of the season had been lessened as they were now excluded from getting tickets for the big away games. It may not have been the main driver for points being scrapped but IMO it was a factor. Was just thinking of a possible solution that would satisfy both parties.

[Leith's finest]

If we go down the road of LP, I think the old points would have to be scrapped and everybody starting on a even keel

[Diclonius]

I actually agree with you, but if I mind right this is what caused some ST holders to spit the dummy and threaten not to renew as they perceived the value of the season had been lessened as they were now excluded from getting tickets for the big away games. It may not have been the main driver for points being scrapped but IMO it was a factor. Was just thinking of a possible solution that would satisfy both parties.

I'm curious as to how many ST holders actually issued this threat, and why they apparently hold so much sway over Dempster's opinion compared to 3+ years of universal complaint against a **** and unfair system.

What if we introduced a "guaranteed first priority for Hearts tickets" pass, would they be satisfied then? Would they even buy a season ticket? :dunno:

[Gloucester Hibs]

I'm curious as to how many ST holders actually issued this threat, and why they apparently hold so much sway over Dempster's opinion compared to 3+ years of universal complaint against a **** and unfair system.

What if we introduced a "guaranteed first priority for Hearts tickets" pass, would they be satisfied then? Would they even buy a season ticket? :dunno:

No idea, it could all have been bluster and BS. There were a few who were fairly vocal over on the Bounce, must have been some here too. I'd have been up for calling their bluff but maybe LD thought the potential loss of even a few ST holders not worth the risk?

[Hermit Crab]

I actually agree with you, but if I mind right this is what caused some ST holders to spit the dummy and threaten not to renew as they perceived the value of the season had been lessened as they were now excluded from getting tickets for the big away games. It may not have been the main driver for points being scrapped but IMO it was a factor. Was just thinking of a possible solution that would satisfy both parties.



The only reason some ST holders spat the dummy out was because they hadn't bothered to attend the so called lesser attractive away games like Alloa and Dumbarton to build their points up meaning that when the big aways came round they were not eligible for tickets and that was entirely their own fault and they knew that and then threatened to not renew to save face. The club shat it and gave in when if they had stuck to their guns we'd still have a points system going today.

[Hermit Crab]

If we go down the road of LP, I think the old points would have to be scrapped and everybody starting on a even keel


Absolutely, everyone should start a fresh. :agree:

[Hermit Crab]

I'm curious as to how many ST holders actually issued this threat, and why they apparently hold so much sway over Dempster's opinion compared to 3+ years of universal complaint against a **** and unfair system.

What if we introduced a "guaranteed first priority for Hearts tickets" pass, would they be satisfied then? Would they even buy a season ticket? :dunno:


I'm willing to bet it was not a lot.

[Pretty Boy]

3 points from me:

Any scheme should be on a rolling basis. So all points accrue for 3 years then after that period the year 1 points drop off, then year 2 and so on. That stops a situation arising whereby someone can basically build a huge number of points over say a 5 year period and still be at the front of the queue even if their attendance drops off after that point. Equally it allows someone who maybe can't commit to away games now start to build points in the future when their circumstances change. Ultimately it ensures those actually attending at any given point in time are looked after at that time.

Secondly there should be points for overseas Hibs TV subscribers. That subscription is these guys equivalent of a ST and whilst they shouldn't get to the front of the queue for high demand away games they should be looked after when it comes to semi finals and finals.

Thirdly no points should be allocated for games where demand exceeds supply. That won't impact the guys who attend Dingwall, Dundee, Motherwell etc but awarding points for games at Tynecastle when 6000 people want 3200 tickets is nonsensical. At least 2 other clubs I know off operate their system in such a way.

[green with envy]

The only reason some ST holders spat the dummy out was because they hadn't bothered to attend the so called lesser attractive away games like Alloa and Dumbarton to build their points up meaning that when the big aways came round they were not eligible for tickets and that was entirely their own fault and they knew that and then threatened to not renew to save face. The club shat it and gave in when if they had stuck to their guns we'd still have a points system going today.

TBF, It was difficult to get a ticket for Dumbarton due to there only being an allocation of around 700 tickets. Due to that reason, I recall that me and the 3 others that I travel with week in - week out had to go hospitality on one occasion. Alloa on the other hand was a piece of pish to get a ticket and from memory usually well attended.

[Ozyhibby]

Not read the thread but has anyone suggested a way of setting up a loyalty points system that is a lot cheaper than the last time? If not then you are wasting your time on chat about how points are allocated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BoomtownHibees]

Not read the thread but has anyone suggested a way of setting up a loyalty points system that is a lot cheaper than the last time? If not then you are wasting your time on chat about how points are allocated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How much did the last one cost to run/maintain?

[Hermit Crab]

TBF, It was difficult to get a ticket for Dumbarton due to there only being an allocation of around 700 tickets. Due to that reason, I recall that me and the 3 others that I travel with week in - week out had to go hospitality on one occasion. Alloa on the other hand was a piece of pish to get a ticket and from memory usually well attended.


I don't recall Dumbarton away selling out once, I might be wrong though.

[green with envy]

I don't recall Dumbarton away selling out once, I might be wrong though.

I'm pretty positive that Dumbarton sold out every game, as I said that's why we went to hospitality on that particular occasion. I also remember them allocating us more tickets on another particular game due to their own fans not selling out their allocation. They just moved the temp barrier along.

[Hermit Crab]

I'm pretty positive that Dumbarton sold out every game, as I said that's why we went to hospitality on that particular occasion. I also remember them allocating us more tickets on another particular game due to their own fans not selling out their allocation. They just moved the temp barrier along.


It definitely never sold out every game we played there.

[green with envy]

It definitely never sold out every game we played there.

I attended all the games we played there but i'm now starting to doubt myself if that's what you believe. Is there a particular game that you remember that never sold out?

[Hermit Crab]

I attended all the games we played there but i'm now starting to doubt myself if that's what you believe. Is there a particular game that you remember that never sold out?


All of them IIRC, but the 3-2 loss is definitely one we never sold out, as is the 3-6 win.

[Tynie01011973]

If we go down the road of LP, I think the old points would have to be scrapped and everybody starting on a even keel

The old LPs have already been removed from your Account

[green day]

Not read the thread but has anyone suggested a way of setting up a loyalty points system that is a lot cheaper than the last time? If not then you are wasting your time on chat about how points are allocated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The biggest driver was some very vocal fan and association pressure for change, there were a lot of people whingeing that it wasnt fair at the working together meetings etc and - unfortunately IMO - they were listened to.

I dont imagine that running the AST scheme is cheaper than automatic allocation of points on STs and matches bought via ticketmaster, but who knows?

[LancashireHibby]

The amount of points gained should not be more than a season ticket holder has. Walk ups could have their own priority after season tickets and before general sales.

Which as a non-season ticket holder is exactly what I'd be interested in. When the loyalty points were in operation (and the membership scheme before it), knowing you were in bracket x of the sales period meant it was far more viable to book travel/hotels knowing you had a good shout of a ticket rather than ending up in a free-for-all come general sale, especially at Hampden*.

*I know there have been plenty of occasions where we haven't filled our Hampden allocation, but having that extra stage of priority at least gives you a better chance of getting a North/South ticket

[LancashireHibby]

Not read the thread but has anyone suggested a way of setting up a loyalty points system that is a lot cheaper than the last time? If not then you are wasting your time on chat about how points are allocated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's already built in to the Ticketmaster system so I'm sure there would only be a negligible 'bolt on' cost for the club to pay. Not only that, remove the retrospective adding of points and it's completely automated so there would be no additional admin costs either.

[green with envy]

All of them IIRC, but the 3-2 loss is definitely one we never sold out, as is the 3-6 win.
You're wrong if you don't believe we sold out those games.

[CB_NO3]

I don't recall Dumbarton away selling out once, I might be wrong though.

We definitely sold out Dumbarton away on a few different occasions. I would be surprised if we never sold out every time tbh.

[SChibs]

You're wrong if you don't believe we sold out those games.

I think we sold out the 3-2 loss. There was a midweek game that we won 2-1 i dont think we sold out.

[Hibernia&Alba]

On the face of it thats very simple, sensible and fair...........however what it also means is that only fans who currently attend these away games get to the "top pf the tree" on LPs and will never be dislodged as long as they continue to attend all matches including Rangers and Celtic where we get hardly any tickets.

The result is a cohort of fans who can always get to away matches, and then a larger group (all other fans) who can never gain enough points to actually attend all away matches.

This results in a smallish group (say 800-1000) who get first dibs at Tynecastle then basically a free for all for the remainder.

So, what I am saying is, you dont have to scratch under the surface too far to determine that its not that simple.

p.s. All clubs have issues, I know Celtc fans rage that the Green Brigade get plum tickets together for every away match.

That could be gotten around; it's a matter of making the scheme work as fairly as possible. As you say, no scheme will please everyone - that's life - but the current situation for tickets for the most sought after games, particularly Tynecastle, isn't good enough. There will only be a few matches where loyalty points come into play, as tickets are available to all who want them for most games.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I actually agree with you, but if I mind right this is what caused some ST holders to spit the dummy and threaten not to renew as they perceived the value of the season had been lessened as they were now excluded from getting tickets for the big away games. It may not have been the main driver for points being scrapped but IMO it was a factor. Was just thinking of a possible solution that would satisfy both parties.

In the politest way possible, they should be flat out ignored.

A season ticket entitles you to 19 home games in the same seat every season. I don't remember it having these extra magical privileges. As I say though, this will all become moot at some point in the near future because, invariably, people will suddenly remember they've got better things to do on a Saturday than follow Hibs to Ibrox or Parkhead, and eventually Tynecastle will follow.

[HibeeHibernian4]

It definitely never sold out every game we played there.

It definitely did, HC. There was one game on a midweek in April in 2015 (just before the derby and the SC semi final) where it wasn't quite sold out, but every other time it did.

[Hermit Crab]

It definitely did, HC. There was one game on a midweek in April in 2015 (just before the derby and the SC semi final) where it wasn't quite sold out, but every other time it did.


I'm not convinced all bar 1 game at Dumbarton sold out and I was at every game we played there.

[Hermit Crab]

In the politest way possible, they should be flat out ignored.

A season ticket entitles you to 19 home games in the same seat every season. I don't remember it having these extra magical privileges. As I say though, this will all become moot at some point in the near future because, invariably, people will suddenly remember they've got better things to do on a Saturday than follow Hibs to Ibrox or Parkhead, and eventually Tynecastle will follow.


Correct, if they can't be bothered to attend the less attractive away matches then they fall behind the pecking order for big game tickets, thats how it works. They can kick and scream all they want.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I'm not convinced all bar 1 game at Dumbarton sold out and I was at every game we played there.

As was I, what you sometimes had was a handful of empty seats on account of the young team trying to all fit into a couple of rows, which would leave seats nearer the bottom of the stand. Certainly was never PATG once.

[judas]

I like the Spanish approach. Don’t go to away games but turn out in numbers at home and have a subscription style membership.

[BroxburnHibee]

Ditching the word 'loyalty' would be a good starting point.

[Hermit Crab]

Ditching the word 'loyalty' would be a good starting point.


"ticket" points

[green with envy]

I'm not convinced all bar 1 game at Dumbarton sold out and I was at every game we played there.

You suggested in a earlier post that you thought we never sold out any away to Dumbarton. I've found two games without really trying.


http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/7163

https://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2015/08/hibs-ticket-allocation-for-dumbarton-now-sold-out/

[Hermit Crab]

You suggested in a earlier post that you thought we never sold out any away to Dumbarton. I've found two games without really trying.


http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/7163

https://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2015/08/hibs-ticket-allocation-for-dumbarton-now-sold-out/


We revived an additional allocation for that game which did not sell. We are drifting from the thread topic here though.

Bring back the points system. Everyone knows what they need to do in order to secure themselves a ticket for the big games.

[Scouse Hibee]

As a ST holder who very rarely goes away anymore I just want to be guaranteed a ticket for Hampden semis and finals, which I normally am.

[Real Emerald]

The problem I have is it would create an elite group that would virtually always get tickets for the elite away games. By doing so their loyalty points would grow whilst those who don’t get tickets get further behind. It would always be the same people getting these tickets which basically removes any hope from the vast majority of supporters and ST holders. Folks circumstances don’t always allow to go to every game, loyalty points would virtually remove any possibility they had. Supporters who’ve maybe spent decades following Hibs. I’m a NO

[green with envy]

We revived an additional allocation for that game which did not sell. We are drifting from the thread topic here though.

Bring back the points system. Everyone knows what they need to do in order to secure themselves a ticket for the big games.

You'll find it did. However I'm in agreement in sticking with the topic of hoping to bring back some kind of point system.:thumbsup:

[Skol]

There was one season when as part of ST applications you could choose to request Hearts and OF away tickets. They didnt sell out, but if they had there would have been a ballot. Why cant we do the same as these are the problem games. Hampden games have enough tickets to go around STs

[Hermit Crab]

The problem I have is it would create an elite group that would virtually always get tickets for the elite away games. By doing so their loyalty points would grow whilst those who don’t get tickets get further behind. It would always be the same people getting these tickets which basically removes any hope from the vast majority of supporters and ST holders. Folks circumstances don’t always allow to go to every game, loyalty points would virtually remove any possibility they had. Supporters who’ve maybe spent decades following Hibs. I’m a NO


We are talking about a 3 year rolling system so the points for the last 2 seasons drop off.

The onus is on the supporters to go to the less attractive fixtures when circumstances permit in order to collect the ticket points. I don't see what the issue is here, put your time into going to the games and you get higher up in the pecking order in order to have enough points for the big away matches. No points should be awarded for Hearts, Celtic or Rangers away as these are hight demand games with not enough supply.

There are ample games throughout each season, the so called lesser away games where fans can easily buy tickets and gather the points required for the big 3. No excuses imo. Its simple, it works and its fair.

A points system caters for those who attend games and not those who only fancy Hearts away, thats one of the issues we have at the moment with a free for all.

[Hermit Crab]

There was one season when as part of ST applications you could choose to request Hearts and OF away tickets. They didnt sell out, but if they had there would have been a ballot. Why cant we do the same as these are the problem games. Hampden games have enough tickets to go around STs


Because you could then have the situation where someone who's been to every game misses out to someone who hasn't been to away game all season but all of a sudden wants a ticket for Tynecastle

[Skol]

Because you could then have the situation where someone who's been to every game misses out to someone who hasn't been to away game all season but all of a sudden wants a ticket for Tynecastle

But you have to decide at start of season, not on a whim. If someone wants to go every week they have the away season ticket

I guess this response shows why we will never have the scheme back as folk will always pull apart any option offered, There is no perfect solution.

[Hermit Crab]

But you have to decide at start of season, not on a whim. If someone wants to go every week they have the away season ticket

I guess this response shows why we will never have the scheme back as folk will always pull apart any option offered, There is no perfect solution.


Ditch the AST in favour of a points system, I'm a current AST holder and I would rather have the points system back despite the fact the AST suits me, a points system is fairer to those who can't go every week.

[green day]

We are talking about a 3 year rolling system so the points for the last 2 seasons drop off.

The onus is on the supporters to go to the less attractive fixtures when circumstances permit in order to collect the ticket points. I don't see what the issue is here, put your time into going to the games and you get higher up in the pecking order in order to have enough points for the big away matches. No points should be awarded for Hearts, Celtic or Rangers away as these are hight demand games with not enough supply.

There are ample games throughout each season, the so called lesser away games where fans can easily buy tickets and gather the points required for the big 3. No excuses imo. Its simple, it works and its fair.

A points system caters for those who attend games and not those who only fancy Hearts away, yjats one of the issues we have at the moment with a free for all.

If, in theory, we have 1500 fans going week in week out to the less attractive fixtures, then how do you determine the allocation of the 800 tickets for Ibrox?

[Real Emerald]

We are talking about a 3 year rolling system so the points for the last 2 seasons drop off.

The onus is on the supporters to got to the less attractive fixtures when circumstances permit in order to collect the ticket points. I don't see what the issue is here, put your time into going to the games and you get higher up in the pecking order in order to have enough points for the big away matches. No points should be awarded for Hearts, Celtic or Rangers away as these are hight demand games with not enough supply.

There are ample games throughout each season, the so called lesser away games where fans can easily buy tickets and gather the points required for the big 3. No excuses imo. Its simple, it works and its fair.

A points system caters for those who attend games and not those who only fancy Hearts away, yjats one of the issues we have at the moment with a free for all.

It suites people with no commitments in life to take a step above people who do. If they want away tickets they can put down for an away ST and garuntee a ticket. Where’s the problem with that?

[danhibees1875]

Because you could then have the situation where someone who's been to every game misses out to someone who hasn't been to away game all season but all of a sudden wants a ticket for Tynecastle

They are still someone who has committed to a season ticket though, and financially contributed to the clubs most important income stream.

I broadly agree with the idea of attendance points, but I can understand the devaluation arguement as well as the cost and time burden behind a scheme. Some of the tone used in the thread doesn't sit well for what is essentially a discussion about how to differentiate a large(relatively speaking) set of loyal fans.

[Hermit Crab]

If, in theory, we have 1500 fans going week in week out to the less attractive fixtures, then how do you determine the allocation of the 800 tickets for Ibrox?


Need to be quick on keyboard when the go on sale then.

Parkhead in January never came close to selling out so numbers rise n fall. I'd have the points system in regardless of rising and falling away travellers.


Stagger the sales for ibrox as 1500 would not all be on the same points, I find it unlikely anyway.

[Billy Whizz]

It suites people with no commitments in life to take a step above people who do. If they want away tickets they can put down for an away ST and garuntee a ticket. Where’s the problem with that?

There’s been some good discussion on this thread today, just catching up after being at work, but your post is a shocker

[green day]

Need to be quick on keyboard when the go on sale then.

Parkhead in January never came close to selling out so numbers rise n fall. I'd have the points system in regardless of rising and falling away travellers.


Stagger the sales for ibrox as 1500 would not all be on the same points, I find it unlikely anyway.

So, you propose a points system similar to what we had before (with refined points per yours a page or so back) and what basically amounts to an online lottery for the high demand games?

Without being confrontational, is that an improvement on today?

[Hermit Crab]

So, you propose a points system similar to what we had before (with refined points per yours a page or so back) and what basically amounts to an online lottery for the high demand games?

Without being confrontational, is that an improvement on today?


We all know that Parkhead and Ibrox are extremely limited but at the same time not everyone will want to go, plus the last time we had the points systems in operation Ibrox tickets were easy to get using sales waves, everyone knew when they were able to get one.

Lets say the most points anyone has is 50 points when Ibrox go on sale

45 points or more, one ticket 06/03/19
35 points or more, one ticket 07/03/19
25 points or more, one ticket 08/03/18

and so on until they sell out. Its the fairest way imo.

[SChibs]

Why, if you commit to a ST but cant make all the away games the. You could be in a situation where you would never get the chance of a ticket for Ibrox. That can’t be fair? The vast empty spaces in the FF are a huge bugbear but bringing back a non working loyalty points system is not the answer. There may be better ways but not the one we had.

It's fair if they lose out to someone who goes every week and has done for years

[Billy Whizz]

Why, if you commit to a ST but cant make all the away games the. You could be in a situation where you would never get the chance of a ticket for Ibrox. That can’t be fair? The vast empty spaces in the FF are a huge bugbear but bringing back a non working loyalty points system is not the answer. There may be better ways but not the one we had.

It was more to do with the bit where you said it was ok for people with no commitments in life. I can assure you many many Hibs fans have many commitments, but they will do everything to get to the games

[Hermit Crab]

Why, if you commit to a ST but cant make all the away games the. You could be in a situation where you would never get the chance of a ticket for Ibrox. That can’t be fair? The vast empty spaces in the FF are a huge bugbear but bringing back a non working loyalty points system is not the answer. There may be better ways but not the one we had.


Like what? Not including an AST or ballot. :dunno:

[green day]

We all know that Parkhead and Ibrox are extremely limited but at the same time not everyone will want to go, plus the last time we had the points systems in operation Ibrox tickets were easy to get using sales waves, everyone knew when they were able to get one.

Lets say the most points anyone has is 50 points when Ibrox go on sale

45 points or more, one ticket 06/03/19
35 points or more, one ticket 07/03/19
25 points or more, one ticket 08/03/18

and so on until they sell out. Its the fairest way imo.

Good, that is sensible:thumbsup:

[Hermit Crab]

It was more to do with the bit where you said it was ok for people with no commitments in life. I can assure you many many Hibs fans have many commitments, but they will do everything to get to the games


Agree Billy, I juggle things around all the time in order to get to games. Doesn't always make me popular with the Mrs either.

[Hermit Crab]

Good, that is sensible:thumbsup:


Given our history on here I can't tell if you're being serious or not. :greengrin

[Hermit Crab]

It's fair if they lose out to someone who goes every week and has done for years

Spot on. :agree:

Points systems are not designed to suit the Johnny Come Latelys, they're designed to reward those who attend the most matches.

[Real Emerald]

It was more to do with the bit where you said it was ok for people with no commitments in life. I can assure you many many Hibs fans have many commitments, but they will do everything to get to the games

Yes I obviously understand that, I’ve been through being a teenager, having young kids and passing out the other end with only holiday commitments. If for example you end up being ill for three months in year one of the points system, you will never catch up by year three to get an Ibrox ticket. It is a system the stops the vast majority of our support ever getting the chance of these tickets. Maybe because they’re on shifts, Ill or whatever. Part of the reward for committing UP FRONT for a ST is the CHANCE to get your hands on the elite tickets.

[green day]

Given our history on here I can't tell if you're being serious or not. :greengrin

No, I think your suggestion of tiered sales makes a lot of sense and feels fair.

My previous questioning on the subject was only because those suggestions didnt make sense in isolation - what you have said now does.














Still a miserable fanny though.......................:greengrin

[Speedy]

Hearts'.

Literally copy it word for word and we are sorted.

Anybody who objects to it can bolt, quite frankly, it is the definition of fairness.

A group of hearts fans were debating their loyalty scheme at my work today.

One saying it wasn't right that season ticket holders aren't in the first tier for certain games.


Is it fair? Is it the best system? Maybe

Will it stop the moaning? Not a chance

[Eyrie]

A group of hearts fans were debating their loyalty scheme at my work today.

One saying it wasn't right that season ticket holders aren't in the first tier for certain games.


Is it fair? Is it the best system? Maybe

Will it stop the moaning? Not a chance

Based on the points values HC posted earlier, a season ticket holder (20 points) will always be ahead of walk ups. The difference is that a regular attender of away games like HC would be in an earlier group to get tickets for Ibrox/Parkhead/PBS than a season ticket holder like me who doesn't usually go to away games. I find that very fair.

It would mean that I get priority over walk ups, but I supported the logic of the points scheme when I was a walk up anyway because I recognised that it is only fair that regular attenders got priority over me.

[Speedy]

Everyone knows the HSL points killed it dead, so don’t know why they can’t just admit that rather than using the excuses about staff abuse and cost. Mistakes happen, but it’s more important to learn from the mistakes.
A club our size, and with our fanbase and support at both home and away matches, a loyalty point system should be mandatory.

HSL didn't kill it. Fans bickering and creating hassle for the club killed it.

Any of these threads will tell you that there are too many differing, and often vocal, views on how it should work.

[ronaldo7]

It's already built in to the Ticketmaster system so I'm sure there would only be a negligible 'bolt on' cost for the club to pay. Not only that, remove the retrospective adding of points and it's completely automated so there would be no additional admin costs either.

If you could guarantee that, then, Dempster might give it a go. On the other hand if the ticket office manager/ess has to have one of their own administering the system/queries. It's a no go, imo.

[Eyrie]

HSL didn't kill it. Fans bickering and creating hassle for the club killed it.

Any of these threads will tell you that there are too many differing, and often vocal, views on how it should work.

I'd say there is a broad consensus amongst those in favour that season ticket holders get extra points, the points are time limited and sold out games get no points. Everything else is minor details.

[Speedy]

Based on the points values HC posted earlier, a season ticket holder (20 points) will always be ahead of walk ups. The difference is that a regular attender of away games like HC would be in an earlier group to get tickets for Ibrox/Parkhead/PBS than a season ticket holder like me who doesn't usually go to away games. I find that very fair.

It would mean that I get priority over walk ups, but I supported the logic of the points scheme when I was a walk up anyway because I recognised that it is only fair that regular attenders got priority over me.

I get how it is applied and I personally think it is fair.

Others will disagree though, quite vocally in many instances, and that will create work for the club. Work that won't actually benefit the club.

[silverhibee]

Shame that Leeann will disappoint you all when she says it won't be discussed again. :cb

[Ozyhibby]

In the politest way possible, they should be flat out ignored.

A season ticket entitles you to 19 home games in the same seat every season. I don't remember it having these extra magical privileges. As I say though, this will all become moot at some point in the near future because, invariably, people will suddenly remember they've got better things to do on a Saturday than follow Hibs to Ibrox or Parkhead, and eventually Tynecastle will follow.

Casual disregard for the clubs biggest income stream.
The season ticket currently gives you the right to apply for tickets for big away games in the first release. If you want to take that away then you are devaluing the clubs most important product. Doesn’t sound like good business sense to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mim]

We are talking about a 3 year rolling system so the points for the last 2 seasons drop off.

The onus is on the supporters to go to the less attractive fixtures when circumstances permit in order to collect the ticket points. I don't see what the issue is here, put your time into going to the games and you get higher up in the pecking order in order to have enough points for the big away matches. No points should be awarded for Hearts, Celtic or Rangers away as these are hight demand games with not enough supply.

There are ample games throughout each season, the so called lesser away games where fans can easily buy tickets and gather the points required for the big 3. No excuses imo. Its simple, it works and its fair.

A points system caters for those who attend games and not those who only fancy Hearts away, thats one of the issues we have at the moment with a free for all.

I must say this proposal makes total sense.

[Speedy]

I'd say there is a broad consensus amongst those in favour that season ticket holders get extra points, the points are time limited and sold out games get no points. Everything else is minor details.

To be honest, I'm not even sure there is consensus on what the points system is trying to achieve. Never mind anywhere near broad consensus on how to achieve it.

[matty_f]

To be honest, I'm not even sure there is consensus on what the points system is trying to achieve. Never mind anywhere near broad consensus on how to achieve it.

The problem with any points scheme is that people only like it when it suits them and their circumstances. A scheme that leaves them behind in the queue will be complained about.

[Hibbyradge]

How many regular away supporters have missed out on tickets for games since the loyalty points system was scrapped?

[HibeeHibernian4]

If, in theory, we have 1500 fans going week in week out to the less attractive fixtures, then how do you determine the allocation of the 800 tickets for Ibrox?

Then 700 would miss out, but they'd know they missed out to 800 folk who go every week, rather than a random 800 whose broadband happened to be quicker than others.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Yes I obviously understand that, I’ve been through being a teenager, having young kids and passing out the other end with only holiday commitments. If for example you end up being ill for three months in year one of the points system, you will never catch up by year three to get an Ibrox ticket. It is a system the stops the vast majority of our support ever getting the chance of these tickets. Maybe because they’re on shifts, Ill or whatever. Part of the reward for committing UP FRONT for a ST is the CHANCE to get your hands on the elite tickets.

Do you want to argue nonsense hypotheticals, or do you want to just come out and say 'look, I'd have less of a chance for away tickets if you brought back Loyalty Points, so don't bring them back'?

I'd have more respect for you if you were honest about it, rather than inventing things that just wouldn't happen/don't seem to affect Hearts' system.

I'm going to put this in the most simple terms possible, Hearts away is the game that everybody wants to go to, yes?

The Roseburn stand c. 3,400 seats
Hospitality, player comps etc. 200-300 seats
Segregation, maybe another 100 seats

So you're left with 3,000 seats.

Hibs' average away attendance since returning to the Premiership: 1,500

3,000 - 1,500 = 1,500

That would leave 1,500 for the Season Ticket holders who do not go to (m)any away games to go to Tynecastle. They would have a smaller chance of getting one, yes, but people who follow Hibs all over Scotland would be (rightly) rewarded. And if they want to change that situation, they know what to do. Go to some away games.

[Skol]

Do you want to argue nonsense hypotheticals, or do you want to just come out and say 'look, I'd have less of a chance for away tickets if you brought back Loyalty Points, so don't bring them back'?

I'd have more respect for you if you were honest about it, rather than inventing things that just wouldn't happen/don't seem to affect Hearts' system.

I'm going to put this in the most simple terms possible, Hearts away is the game that everybody wants to go to, yes?

The Roseburn stand c. 3,400 seats
Hospitality, player comps etc. 200-300 seats
Segregation, maybe another 100 seats

So you're left with 3,000 seats.

Hibs' average away attendance since returning to the Premiership: 1,500

3,000 - 1,500 = 1,500

That would leave 1,500 for the Season Ticket holders who do not go to (m)any away games to go to Tynecastle. They would have a smaller chance of getting one, yes, but people who follow Hibs all over Scotland would be (rightly) rewarded. And if they want to change that situation, they know what to do. Go to some away games.

Its not the same 1500 though is it....maybe its 2000 people only leaving 1000 !

Anyway, I agree those that are going to away games deserve a ticket more than those that dont.

I tend to only go to Tynecastle (and cup ties) and have maybe missed 5 away derbies in over 30 years including being there many times when we couldnt sell our allocation. Does that mean I get priority over the 1000 - no it doesnt.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Its not the same 1500 though is it....maybe its 2000 people only leaving 1000 !

Anyway, I agree those that are going to away games deserve a ticket more than those that dont.

I tend to only go to Tynecastle (and cup ties) and have maybe missed 5 away derbies in over 30 years including being there many times when we couldnt sell our allocation. Does that mean I get priority over the 1000 - no it doesnt.

Yes, it doesn't.

...I think that's my point?

[Speedy]

Its not the same 1500 though is it....maybe its 2000 people only leaving 1000 !

Anyway, I agree those that are going to away games deserve a ticket more than those that dont.

I tend to only go to Tynecastle (and cup ties) and have maybe missed 5 away derbies in over 30 years including being there many times when we couldnt sell our allocation. Does that mean I get priority over the 1000 - no it doesnt.

Sounds like you have a pretty poor win ratio, time for you to do the right thing and step aside for someone else.

:greengrin

[HibeeHibernian4]

How many regular away supporters have missed out on tickets for games since the loyalty points system was scrapped?

I've missed one Ibrox game and one Parkhead game, and have had to go begging for a spare for Tynecastle on two occasions (got lucky both times in that regard).

So through the 'official channels' of buying through Hibs since loyalty points were scrapped, there've been probably been about 10-12 serious ticket scrambles and I've missed out on 4 of them.

I go to at least 15 out of the 19 away league games each season, for the record. Not enough to justify throwing away the best part of £100 and getting an Away Season Ticket, before somebody suggests that. And besides, that's fully subscribed at the moment.

[Hermit Crab]

A group of hearts fans were debating their loyalty scheme at my work today.

One saying it wasn't right that season ticket holders aren't in the first tier for certain games.


Is it absolutely fair? Is it the best system? Maybe

Will it stop the moaning? Not a chance


That is absolutely fair, its up to the individual to go to games to keep their points level up so they are eligible for the big away days. If they choose not to go to aways over the course of a couple of seasons then they can't complain about falling behind in the points bracket, thats just tough jobbies I'm afraid.

[Hermit Crab]

I've missed one Ibrox game and one Parkhead game, and have had to go begging for a spare for Tynecastle on two occasions (got lucky both times in that regard).

So through the 'official channels' of buying through Hibs since loyalty points were scrapped, there've been probably been about 10-12 serious ticket scrambles and I've missed out on 4 of them.

I go to at least 15 out of the 19 away league games each season, for the record. Not enough to justify throwing away the best part of £100 and getting an Away Season Ticket, before somebody suggests that. And besides, that's fully subscribed at the moment.


I know of around half a dozen guys who have missed out in the online lottery for Hearts and rangers in the last few seasons and like you, have had to go begging for spares. Under the points system these guys were sorted for tickets for these games.

[Speedy]

That is absolutely fair, its up to the individual to go to games to keep their points level up so they are eligible for the big away days. If they choose not to go to aways over the course of a couple of seasons then they can't complain about falling behind in the points bracket, thats just tough jobbies I'm afraid.

And yet they do.

For what it's worth, I agree it is fair. However, the point being that people (Hearts fans included) will still complain if the system doesn't suit them.

[Skol]

I've missed one Ibrox game and one Parkhead game, and have had to go begging for a spare for Tynecastle on two occasions (got lucky both times in that regard).

So through the 'official channels' of buying through Hibs since loyalty points were scrapped, there've been probably been about 10-12 serious ticket scrambles and I've missed out on 4 of them.


I go to at least 15 out of the 19 away league games each season, for the record. Not enough to justify throwing away the best part of £100 and getting an Away Season Ticket, before somebody suggests that. And besides, that's fully subscribed at the moment.

I have never failed in the online lottery yet but I must be due to soon. However why does my tynecastke purchasing history over 30 years count for nothing when someone can go this season only and get priority.

[Real Emerald]

Do you want to argue nonsense hypotheticals, or do you want to just come out and say 'look, I'd have less of a chance for away tickets if you brought back Loyalty Points, so don't bring them back'?

I'd have more respect for you if you were honest about it, rather than inventing things that just wouldn't happen/don't seem to affect Hearts' system.

I'm going to put this in the most simple terms possible, Hearts away is the game that everybody wants to go to, yes?

The Roseburn stand c. 3,400 seats
Hospitality, player comps etc. 200-300 seats
Segregation, maybe another 100 seats

So you're left with 3,000 seats.

Hibs' average away attendance since returning to the Premiership: 1,500

3,000 - 1,500 = 1,500

That would leave 1,500 for the Season Ticket holders who do not go to (m)any away games to go to Tynecastle. They would have a smaller chance of getting one, yes, but people who follow Hibs all over Scotland would be (rightly) rewarded. And if they want to change that situation, they know what to do. Go to some away games.

TBH you’re probably correct in that the Rangers away game would be the real issue where only the same people ever get access to those tickets. It’s not hypothetical if that game matters to you but I do get your point. I’m in the opinion that a ST is the top tier, the product the club needs you to buy and every ST holder should have a chance for tickets to all games regardless if they only attend some away games. That is the incentive the club are trying to push as that’s where their committed finances come from.

[Hermit Crab]

And yet they do.

For what it's worth, I agree it is fair. However, the point being that people (Hearts fans included) will still complain if the system doesn't suit them.


Of course there would be complaints but if everybody knows the rules regarding the points these complaints should not even be entertained by the club, the ones who complain the loudest are the ones who don't bother about any other away games except Hearts, Rangers and Celtic.

[Hermit Crab]

I have never failed in the online lottery yet but I must be due to soon. However why does my tynecastke purchasing history over 30 years count for nothing when someone can go this season only and get priority.

Theres more away days than Tynecastle. Your loyalty would be rewarded for attending every away game under the points system.

[McD]

Casual disregard for the clubs biggest income stream.
The season ticket currently gives you the right to apply for tickets for big away games in the first release. If you want to take that away then you are devaluing the clubs most important product. Doesn’t sound like good business sense to me.


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Your point about the season ticket currently giving the right to apply for big away game tickets in the first release isn’t completely true. The AST subscribers get first release, and in the case of ibrox may be the only ones who get a ticket. So the ‘right’ that you’re describing isn’t quite what you’ve said.


that aside, what you’ve described doesn’t really change if the LP scheme is brought back as ably described by Hermit Crab. Season ticket holders would still get the ‘right’ to apply for/purchase tickets for big games as they do just now, the only difference is that regular/constant away attenders would be getting the opportunity first, as they have been the ones, like HC, who have supported the team in less glamorous matches. Shouldn’t those people get first crack at the big games? Who are all extremely likely to be ST holders anyway?

[PatHead]

There is not a snowball's chance in hell that a loyalty scheme will be brought back in. Over the last few years various people have raised it and been told it is not possible.

This is mainly due to :

The scheme only being required for a handful of games a season. (Hearts away). I stand to be corrected but I think the last Celtic game went to public sale, might have been the case with a recent sevco game.

The cost of implementing such a scheme.

The abuse the ticket office staff get from people claiming their points are incorrect.

The amount of time wasted checking the above.

Fans who pay at the gate for away games not being rewarded.

As in the Tartan Army certain supporters will just harvest points.

No one agrees the best way to set up the scheme so moaning will still happen as there is no perfect scheme.

I must admit I agree that it should just be a ballot for Tynie. The rest just down to luck.

With regards to the o.p.if you were unable to implement a scheme, would you resign from the board as you appear to have this as your main usp?

[HibeeHibernian4]

I have never failed in the online lottery yet but I must be due to soon. However why does my tynecastke purchasing history over 30 years count for nothing when someone can go this season only and get priority.

Well because Hibs play at Tynecastle once or twice a season at most, and there are about 17 other away games where an away support is helpful to the team.

[LaMotta]

How many regular away supporters have missed out on tickets for games since the loyalty points system was scrapped?

Me and my group of 4 - went to 90 percent of away games for years. Since loyalty points were scrapped I've sat on the online system countless times wasting my time for the big games and only managed to get tickets once, for the recent nil nil at Tynecastle.

I've seen some of them from the home ends where I could at Ibrox Tynecastle and Parkhead. Not quite the same though.

[Geo_1875]

Theres more away days than Tynecastle. Your loyalty would be rewarded for attending every away game under the points system.

No. His loyalty would be rewarded for buying a ticket for every away game. He doesn't need to attend these games to be rewarded. He can sell his ticket, he can give it away, he can even use it to light a big cigar if he so chooses. He gets the points and stays at the front of the queue for high demand games.

[Hermit Crab]

No. His loyalty would be rewarded for buying a ticket for every away game. He doesn't need to attend these games to be rewarded. He can sell his ticket, he can give it away, he can even use it to light a big cigar if he so chooses. He gets the points and stays at the front of the queue for high demand games.


Whatever, same thing, buy the ticket get the points, buy the ticket and attend the game and get the points.

[HibeeHibernian4]

No. His loyalty would be rewarded for buying a ticket for every away game. He doesn't need to attend these games to be rewarded. He can sell his ticket, he can give it away, he can even use it to light a big cigar if he so chooses. He gets the points and stays at the front of the queue for high demand games.

Again, the lengths that people will go to in order to keep their chances of tickets is just incredible. :rolleyes:

You know, full well, that this wouldn't happen on any sort of scale where it's worth discussing.

You are being intellectually dishonest in order to muddy the waters and kick this into long grass, because you don't want loyalty points back.

[Ozyhibby]

The length of this thread and the amount of different opinions show why the LP scheme is not coming back anytime soon.



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[Billy Whizz]

The length of this thread and the amount of different opinions show why the LP scheme is not coming back anytime soon.



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Is that because you only do Tynie away, and suits you

[BoomtownHibees]

No. His loyalty would be rewarded for buying a ticket for every away game. He doesn't need to attend these games to be rewarded. He can sell his ticket, he can give it away, he can even use it to light a big cigar if he so chooses. He gets the points and stays at the front of the queue for high demand games.

That can happen already with the AST so no different really

[Ozyhibby]

Is that because you only do Tynie away, and suits you

Funnily enough, I always had enough points when we had the loyalty points scheme. I didn’t go to the last 3 games at Tynecastle although I did try for one but I mucked up when logging on and missed out.


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[Billy Whizz]

Funnily enough, I always had enough points when we had the loyalty points scheme. I didn’t go to the last 3 games at Tynecastle although I did try for one but I mucked up when logging on and missed out.


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Sign up for it then😜

[Hermit Crab]

A points system is a no brainer an those who oppose it are the usually the ones who only want tickets for the big games but don't bother with the run of the mills v St Mirren or Hamilton.

[PatHead]

A points system is a no brainer an those who oppose it are the usually the ones who only want tickets for the big games but don't bother with the run of the mills v St Mirren or Hamilton.

Rubbish

[HibeeHibernian4]

Rubbish

No, it's spot on, actually.

[Hermit Crab]

Rubbish


Sorry, how is it rubbish?

[PatHead]

No, it's spot on, actually.

I go to a reasonable amount of away games but oppose a loyalty points scheme. I went often enough to qualify for the Tyne castle matches and have missed out on ballots in the last 2 Tynie games. Luckily I got tickets for one from a friend.

So the story that it is only fans who miss out that oppose it is rubbish.

[Hermit Crab]

I go to a reasonable amount of away games but oppose a loyalty points scheme. I went often enough to qualify for the Tyne castle matches and have missed out on ballots in the last 2 Tynie games. Luckily I got tickets for one from a friend.

So the story that it is only fans who miss out that oppose it is rubbish.


No, you've missed out in a free for all where 13k ST holders are eligible to try and get a tickets, a lot of those won't have been to an away game all season and this would be their first away game. Thats not right, a points system stops this.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I go to a reasonable amount of away games but oppose a loyalty points scheme. I went often enough to qualify for the Tyne castle matches and have missed out on ballots in the last 2 Tynie games. Luckily I got tickets for one from a friend.

So the story that it is only fans who miss out that oppose it is rubbish.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you oppose a loyalty points scheme?

I'd say it's fair to say that, in the vast majority of cases, it is really only fans whose chances of getting tickets would diminish who are opposed to Loyalty Points, yes.

You're in a very small and unique minority there, I would guess.

To say 'rubbish' to HC's point seems a bit extreme, it's largely accurate.

[PatHead]

If you don't mind me asking, why do you oppose a loyalty points scheme?

I'd say it's fair to say that, in the vast majority of cases, it is really only fans whose chances of getting tickets would diminish who are opposed to Loyalty Points, yes.

You're in a very small and unique minority there, I would guess.

To say 'rubbish' to HC's point seems a bit extreme, it's largely accurate.

The main reason I oppose it is because I know a number of staff who worked in the ticket office. The amount of extra work and abuse they got was not worth it for the few times each season it is required. Can I just check if both you and HC are away season ticket holders?!

[Danderhall Hibs]

The main reason I oppose it is because I know a number of staff who worked in the ticket office. The amount of extra work and abuse they got was not worth it for the few times each season it is required. Can I just check if both you and HC are away season ticket holders?!

That was down to the lack of communication on how the scheme worked. Clear rules and no one can complain.

[Hermit Crab]

The main reason I oppose it is because I know a number of staff who worked in the ticket office. The amount of extra work and abuse they got was not worth it for the few times each season it is required. Can I just check if both you and HC are away season ticket holders?!


That was out of order but it only happened because the system was mismanaged and the abuse was when we did in person sales at the TO for the big aways, something that no longer happens. All sales should be online and phone with no contact with the TO staff.

[Eyrie]

The main reason I oppose it is because I know a number of staff who worked in the ticket office. The amount of extra work and abuse they got was not worth it for the few times each season it is required. Can I just check if both you and HC are away season ticket holders?!

If a few idiots can't behave like adults and abuse the ticket office staff then they should be dealt with appropriately instead of scrapping the points scheme to keep them happy.

[PatHead]

That was out of order but it only happened because the system was mismanaged and the abuse was when we did in person sales at the TO for the big aways, something that no longer happens. All sales should be online and phone with no contact with the TO staff.

No it wasn't. The worst abuse was caused by people who claimed they did not have the correct amount of points. This made them not eligible to apply for tickets and that would still happen.

[HibeeHibernian4]

The main reason I oppose it is because I know a number of staff who worked in the ticket office. The amount of extra work and abuse they got was not worth it for the few times each season it is required. Can I just check if both you and HC are away season ticket holders?!

No, as I said on the last page:

I go to at least 15 out of the 19 away league games each season, for the record. Not enough to justify throwing away the best part of £100 and getting an Away Season Ticket, before somebody suggests that. And besides, that's fully subscribed at the moment."

[PatHead]

No, as I said on the last page:

I go to at least 15 out of the 19 away league games each season, for the record. Not enough to justify throwing away the best part of £100 and getting an Away Season Ticket, before somebody suggests that. And besides, that's fully subscribed at the moment."
Sorry missed that point. Been a long day.

[B.H.F.C]

No it wasn't. The worst abuse was caused by people who claimed they did not have the correct amount of points. This made them not eligible to apply for tickets and that would still happen.

The answer to that isn’t to get rid of the system, it’s to deal with the folk who are giving the staff abuse.

Anybody who has worked in a customer service environment will have taken their fair share of abuse. It’s not right but the answer isn’t just to do away with something because of it.

I’m an AST holder so as long as the club continue to offer that I’m happy. However, I think a loyalty points system caters for the wider support. The folk who attend every week get their tickets for the high demand games. The folk who maybe attend 10 games a season as a walk up don’t get lumped in with folk who never go on the rare occasion cup final tickets come up and things like that.

[percy veer]

Because you could then have the situation where someone who's been to every game misses out to someone who hasn't been to away game all season but all of a sudden wants a ticket for Tynecastle



still not sure why people make a big deal about someone who wants to go to a derby, speaking about fans like that's normal.

[cabbageandribs1875]

The answer to that isn’t to get rid of the system, it’s to deal with the folk who are giving the staff abuse.

Anybody who has worked in a customer service environment will have taken their fair share of abuse. It’s not right but the answer isn’t just to do away with something because of it.

I’m an AST holder so as long as the club continue to offer that I’m happy. However, I think a loyalty points system caters for the wider support. The folk who attend every week get their tickets for the high demand games. The folk who maybe attend 10 games a season as a walk up don’t get lumped in with folk who never go on the rare occasion cup final tickets come up and things like that.


this, unfortunately the commander-in-chief loyalty points heid hencho(the crab) has already stated us bad walkerer-upperers will have no place in his Scheme :boo hoo:oh well

[Hermit Crab]

still not sure why people make a big deal about someone who wants to go to a derby, speaking about fans like that's normal.


Because at present the Johnny Come Latelys, new ST holders that only want to go to Tynecastle have the same chance of a ticket as someone who's been going nearly all away games, thats just not fair.

[Hermit Crab]

See below Manchester Citys points system, every fan knows exactly when they'll be eligible for a ticket. Its so simple.


https://tickets.mancity.com/en-GB/shows/swansea%20city%20v%20manchester%20city/events

[percy veer]

Because at present the Johnny Come Latelys, new ST holders that only want to go to Tynecastle have the same chance of a ticket as someone who's been going nearly all away games, thats just not fair.


should be left as it is, Every season ticket holder should get the same chance of a ticket, that's fair away games don't bring any income to hibs.

[Hermit Crab]

should be left as it is, Every season ticket holder should get the same chance of a ticket, that's fair away games don't bring any income to hibs.


So how is that fair on those who get to 10-15 aways a season but could then miss out on a ticket for tynecastle to someone who has not been to an away game all season? Why should someone who doesn't go to away games get the same chance as someone who does?

[Diclonius]

The length of this thread and the amount of different opinions show why the LP scheme is not coming back anytime soon.



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And yet the most prevalent opinion, that the current system is grossly unfair and unmanageable, is one that our chief executive completely ignores.

[Rocky]

The length of this thread and the amount of different opinions show why the LP scheme is not coming back anytime soon.



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And is full of folk who go to away games who want a system that suits their particular ticket buying pattern. Rather misses the point that LD wants a system that makes an ST as attractive as possible, and therefore brings as much cash into the club as possible, and therefore puts the best team on the pitch. Weighed against that is the fact that folk who go to away games (which make Hibs zero cash) are already still going to away games and buying season tickets or they wouldn't be so fussed about earning loyalty points. So there's literally zero upside to loyalty points other than tuning down the noise from 500 or so people on message boards.

[HibeeHibernian4]

And is full of folk who go to away games who want a system that suits their particular ticket buying pattern. Rather misses the point that LD wants a system that makes an ST as attractive as possible, and therefore brings as much cash into the club as possible, and therefore puts the best team on the pitch. Weighed against that is the fact that folk who go to away games (which make Hibs zero cash) are already still going to away games and buying season tickets or they wouldn't be so fussed about earning loyalty points. So there's literally zero upside to loyalty points other than tuning down the noise from 500 or so people on message boards.

- The basic principle of fairness

- Treating your loyalest customers well instead of taking advantage of them

- Keeping off the park issues to a minimum so that when a bad patch of form on the park rolls around everyone gives you more time to fix things

[ian cruise]

- The basic principle of fairness

- Treating your loyalest customers well instead of taking advantage of them

- Keeping off the park issues to a minimum so that when a bad patch of form on the park rolls around everyone gives you more time to fix things

Howdoes loyalty points keep off the park issues to a minimum and ensure that should a bad patch of form on the park rolls around everyone gives you more time to fix things? We've already had people on this thread who were opposed to loyalty points and gave scenarios which may happen to back up their reasoning pulled up for creating hypotheticals and then you come out with this? Are you suggesting that if there was a loyalty points scheme those fans would be more likely to give a manager and a team more time and backing during a bad patch than any other fan because some of the people who are in favour of the scheme on here are those who are (online at least) the quickest to turn on the team when they believe they are under performing?

Regarding your first point "basic principle of fairness", that's entirely your point of view also. Many other fans perception of what's fair may differ, there is not a universally agreed and predefined basic principle of fairness.

[ronaldo7]

Because at present the Johnny Come Latelys, new ST holders that only want to go to Tynecastle have the same chance of a ticket as someone who's been going nearly all away games, thats just not fair.

Maybe we should only allow the AST holders to attend, tiny. We don't want those "Johnny come latelys" giving our team some vocal support, when they need it.

[jodjam]

And is full of folk who go to away games who want a system that suits their particular ticket buying pattern. Rather misses the point that LD wants a system that makes an ST as attractive as possible, and therefore brings as much cash into the club as possible, and therefore puts the best team on the pitch. Weighed against that is the fact that folk who go to away games (which make Hibs zero cash) are already still going to away games and buying season tickets or they wouldn't be so fussed about earning loyalty points. So there's literally zero upside to loyalty points other than tuning down the noise from 500 or so people on message boards.

Very well put. Hibs are looking at the whole picture and doing what is best.

[we are hibs]

How many people missed out on a ticket on our last trip to both parkhead and ibrox? Both had plenty tickets available for hours after they went on sale. Infact I'm sure parkhead didn't sell out until a few days before the game.

[Speedy]

That was down to the lack of communication on how the scheme worked. Clear rules and no one can complain.

Nonsense.

Rules are clear at the moment. You buy a season ticket, you get as much chance of a ticket at tynie as any other season ticket holders.

Can't get much clearer than that?

[green with envy]

Your point about the season ticket currently giving the right to apply for big away game tickets in the first release isn’t completely true. The AST subscribers get first release, and in the case of ibrox may be the only ones who get a ticket. So the ‘right’ that you’re describing isn’t quite what you’ve said.


that aside, what you’ve described doesn’t really change if the LP scheme is brought back as ably described by Hermit Crab. Season ticket holders would still get the ‘right’ to apply for/purchase tickets for big games as they do just now, the only difference is that regular/constant away attenders would be getting the opportunity first, as they have been the ones, like HC, who have supported the team in less glamorous matches. Shouldn’t those people get first crack at the big games? Who are all extremely likely to be ST holders anyway?

This is far to sensible.

[green with envy]

Rubbish

I'm afraid it's not. HC in this case has made a very valid point.

[Speedy]

I'm afraid it's not. HC in this case has made a very valid point.

It's far from a 'no brainer'. Why would the club not have reinstated it already if it was?

[green with envy]

It's far from a 'no brainer'. Why would the club not have reinstated it already if it was?


In principle it is.

The point that Hermit made about a selection of fans that want to go to Ibrox, Parkhead ot Tynie for that matter, don't go to the run of the mill games when playing away to Killie, Dundee or Ross county Inverness etc is valid. I have no problem getting a ticket for those type of games but it's always a struggle for the other three in bold.

[green with envy]

How many people missed out on a ticket on our last trip to both parkhead and ibrox? Both had plenty tickets available for hours after they went on sale. Infact I'm sure parkhead didn't sell out until a few days before the game.

There was problems with buying tickets online. I had to plead with the ticket seller when I went to the office to buy in person as I was first refused due to them being "online sales only"

[Kojock]

It's simple really, the fans who go to the majority of away games want a loyalty points system as it guarantees them a ticket for the big 3. The fans who don't attend many away games don't want a loyalty point system as they then have an equal chance of getting a ticket for the big 3. The latter group have far greater numbers and that is the reason a loyalty system will never be reinstated.

[Speedy]

In principle it is.

The point that Hermit made about a selection of fans that want to go to Ibrox, Parkhead ot Tynie for that matter, don't go to the run of the mill games when playing away to Killie, Dundee or Ross county Inverness etc is valid. I have no problem getting a ticket for those type of games but it's always a struggle for the other three in bold.

Kojock's post sums it up well. The number of people who would benefit from HC's proposal is less than those who would benefit from the current system.

Edit: Is that fair? Maybe not. Point is that it shows why this is a difficult decision to get right for the club, and why there will always be complaints regardless of what they do.

[Hibbyradge]

It's simple really, the fans who go to the majority of away games want a loyalty points system as it guarantees them a ticket for the big 3. The fans who don't attend many away games don't want a loyalty point system as they then have an equal chance of getting a ticket for the big 3. The latter group have far greater numbers and that is the reason a loyalty system will never be reinstated.

Do away ST holders get priority for the scarce tickets?

[green with envy]

It's simple really, the fans who go to the majority of away games want a loyalty points system as it guarantees them a ticket for the big 3. The fans who don't attend many away games don't want a loyalty point system as they then have an equal chance of getting a ticket for the big 3. The latter group have far greater numbers and that is the reason a loyalty system will never be reinstated.

I wonder why it is that loyalty/point systems can work without issues at other clubs but can't work at Hibs?

[Kojock]

Do away ST holders get priority for the scarce tickets?

Guaranteed a ticket.

[Hibbyradge]

Guaranteed a ticket.

Close the thread.

[Hermit Crab]

Another thing is that as far as I'm led to believe the Edinburgh suite ST holders are guaranteed 2 tickets each for away games and I know someone who has paid for advertising and got sent an application for them to request up to 4 tickets for Tynecastle no questions asked. This happens every away game AFAIK. Hibs don't make that well known though so thats more of the smaller allocations eaten away.

[Kojock]

I wonder why it is that loyalty point systems can work without issues at other clubs but can't work at Hibs?

Because the fans who are season ticket holders but don't go to the majority of the away games have a limited chance of tickets for the bigot brothers. They told the club that because of this there was no point in having a season ticket and would not renew.

[Hermit Crab]

Maybe we should only allow the AST holders to attend, tiny. We don't want those "Johnny come latelys" giving our team some vocal support, when they need it.


Except these johnny come latelys cant be bothered to turn up at the less attractive away games but kick and scream when they can't get a ticket for the big 3 away games.

[green with envy]

Close the thread.

Coming from someone that admittedly doesn't go to many away games.

[Kojock]

Another thing is that as far as I'm led to believe the Edinburgh suite ST holders are guaranteed 2 tickets each for away games and I know someone who has paid for advertising and got sent an application for them to request up to 4 tickets for Tynecastle no questions asked. This happens every away game AFAIK. Hibs don't make that well known though so thats more of the smaller allocations eaten away.

I know for a fact that people / companies who take out a seasons hospitality get two tickets for the big 3

[Hermit Crab]

Because the fans who are season ticket holders but don't go to the majority of the away games have a limited chance of tickets for the bigot brothers. They told the club that because of this there was no point in having a season ticket and would not renew.


Realistically how many threatened not to renew? It's actually beggars belief that people threatened this and the club should have laughed them out the door. Toys out the pram stuff. Parkhead last month didn't even sell out... where were these people then?

[Hibbyradge]

Another thing is that as far as I'm led to believe the Edinburgh suite ST holders are guaranteed 2 tickets each for away games and I know someone who has paid for advertising and got sent an application for them to request up to 4 tickets for Tynecastle no questions asked. This happens every away game AFAIK. Hibs don't make that well known though so thats more of the smaller allocations eaten away.

That's a reward for putting significant money into Hibs.

Not St Mirren or Hamilton.

[Kojock]

Realistically how many threatened not to renew? It's actually beggars belief that people threatened this and the club should have laughed them out the door. Toys out the pram stuff. Parkhead last month didn't even sell out... where were these people then?

Don't shoot me mate, I'm only the messenger.

I have absolutely no idea how many threatened not to renew but that was one of the major reasons LD scrapped the system.

[Hibbyradge]

Because the fans who are season ticket holders but don't go to the majority of the away games have a limited chance of tickets for the bigot brothers. They told the club that because of this there was no point in having a season ticket and would not renew.

I'd be interested in hearing the numbers of people who did that.

The advantages of having a home season ticket are well known.

[Hermit Crab]

I know for a fact that people / companies who take out a seasons hospitality get two tickets for the big 3


These are creamed off the top before AST holders are even allocated tickets so that leaves even less for the free for all. Hibs never come out and say exactly how many tickets we've been allocated and how many will be going on sale to ST holders, I wonder why.

[Kojock]

That's a reward for putting significant money into Hibs.

Not St Mirren or Hamilton.

It's not all about money, ask any players how much a large noisy away crowd inspires them.

[Hermit Crab]

Don't shoot me mate, I'm only the messenger.

I have absolutely no idea how many threatened not to renew but that was one of the major reasons LD scrapped the system.


I'm not mate but I just can't believe that this happened on the scale that LD made out.

[Hermit Crab]

That's a reward for putting significant money into Hibs.

Not St Mirren or Hamilton.


Feed the rich, to hell with rest then?

[Hibbyradge]

Coming from someone that admittedly doesn't go to many away games.

Am I not allowed an opinion because I live in York? I'll answer. Yes, I am.

Our most loyal away supporters are taken care of at no cost to the club.

That's a fine compromise solution to a tricky problem and, frankly, there's no chance that a populist survey/petition designed to help an individual get votes in the fans rep election will change that.

I didn't really expect the thread to be closed, but it might as well be.

[Kojock]

I'd be interested in hearing the numbers of people who did that.

The advantages of having a home season ticket are well known.

Need to ask LD as nobody else seems to know, but that was one of the main reasons she gave for scrapping it. The other being the abuse the TO staff received.

[Hibbyradge]

Feed the rich, to hell with rest then?

Don't you agree that home season ticket holders get priority over walk up fans either?

I went home and away for years and I took my chances like everyone else for scarce tickets.

It's going to be impossible to keep everyone happy. The current situation is the best compromise I can see.

What's the worst that can happen? Folk who admittedly don't go to all the away games anyway, might miss out on a game or two every year.

I wouldn't change anything.

[jodjam]

Another thing is that as far as I'm led to believe the Edinburgh suite ST holders are guaranteed 2 tickets each for away games and I know someone who has paid for advertising and got sent an application for them to request up to 4 tickets for Tynecastle no questions asked. This happens every away game AFAIK. Hibs don't make that well known though so thats more of the smaller allocations eaten away.

A family member of mine doesn’t have a ST and rarely attends yet will always get tickets for PBS from someone at the club again diluting what is available

[Hibbyradge]

It's not all about money, ask any players how much a large noisy away crowd inspires them.

I don't understand your point.

How do loyalty points, or the lack of, affect that?

[jgl07]

Are loyalty points as contentious at other clubs? Can't we just copy someone else who has happy fans?
Nowhere I have experienced complains about loyalty points with a few exceptions that can be dealt with easily.

The only issue raised at Manchester City is about loyalty point hoarders who buy up tickets for away matches that they have no intention of going to. They buy tickets, usually low priced away tickets for European matches to get the loyalty points. The club reacted to this by having the tickets collected overseas and no points awarded until the ticket was picked up.

[Hermit Crab]

Need to ask LD as nobody else seems to know, but that was one of the main reasons she gave for scrapping it. The other being the abuse the TO staff received.


That was out of order but one of the biggest reasons for this was lack of communication from the club and the scheme was mismanaged from the beginning. There was people claiming they had the wrong amount of points who were at it because they couldn't get a ticket for Tynecastle or Ibrox.

[green with envy]

Am I not allowed an opinion because I live in York? I'll answer. Yes, I am.

Our most loyal away supporters are taken care of at no cost to the club.

That's a fine compromise solution to a tricky problem and, frankly, there's no chance that a populist survey/petition designed to help an individual get votes in the fans rep election will change that.

I didn't really expect the thread to be closed, but it might as well be.

If you lived in New York you would still be entitled to your opinion, but my point still stands.

Define loyal? I don't have an away ST, and I know that I have attended at least the same amount of away games this season of those that are and in a lot of cases more.

[Hermit Crab]

Nowhere I have experienced complains about loyalty points with a few exceptions that can be dealt with easily.

The only issue raised at Manchester City is about loyalty point hoarders who buy up tickets for away matches that they have no intention of going to. They buy tickets, usually low priced away tickets for European matches to get the loyalty points. The club reacted to this by having the tickets collected overseas and no points awarded until the ticket was picked up.


That doesn't happen now, the last ticket collection for City away in Europe was Celtic AFAIK although it may have been Barcelona. This was scrapped because it was taking up to 3-4 hours for each fan to go through the collection process, I know as I had to queue for mine for Celtic away and it took nearly 4 hours and we all had to stand in pouring rain while we waited, when I went to Napoli with Man City my ticket was posted to my house.

You are correct about the points hoarders though, that has been a problem since the scheme began, they do this to keep themselves at the top of the tree for Man U away tickets but City are talking about revamping the whole system next season.