Loyalty / Attendance Points

[Hibbyradge]

If you lived in New York you would still be entitled to your opinion, but my point still stands.

Define loyal? I don't have an away ST, and I know that I have attended at least the same amount of away games this season of those that are and in a lot of cases more.

I get it that you might miss out, and that must feel unfair to you.

There are people who PATG for home games who attend more regularly than loads of ST holders, but they get no benefit.

Should a loyalty program be funded for them too?

Under the current arrangements, a few fans who go to a lot of away games might miss out on a game or two.

It won't change, imo.

[Rocky]

Feed the rich, to hell with rest then?

Better to feed those who are rich enough in time and money to go to lots of away games (putting their money into other clubs and transport companies) than those who put a similar amount of money into Hibs directly?

[cabbageandribs1875]

after reading the thoughts of one elitist individual and his total disregard for walk-ups i've now changed my mind re: Loyalty Points, just keep it as it is LD :agree: indeed, just scrap the AST as well :thumbsup:

[Antifa Hibs]

I don't know anyone outside of here who threatened to not renew a ST because 3000 fans might be in front of them in the pecking order for a ticket at Tynie. If you're going to stop supporting Hibs on a Saturday and deny your club £300-400 for that you're quite frankly a weirdo.

A simple solution is to split the allocation and that surely keeps everyone happy? 70% of the allocation goes to the top point holders, the rest go on a general sale or a ballot.

Anyway i wish it came back but no chance it is. Dempster made a rip roaring james blunt of it and she'll be to stubborn to change it.

[Hibbyradge]

Define loyal?

That's a great point, by the way.

Is someone who can afford to attend loads of away games more loyal than the person who would love to attend, but because of their family size and financial situation, they can't?

Instead they save up and go to 4 games outside Edinburgh per season.

Should someone like that be rewarded for their efforts or are the regulars more worthy?

In our case, it's all about opinions. In Hibs case, it's far more practical.

ST holders get benefits. That's it.

[ronaldo7]

Except these johnny come latelys cant be bothered to turn up at the less attractive away games but kick and scream when they can't get a ticket for the big 3 away games.

Folks lives don't always revolve around what you may want to happen, it's called choice, we've all got it, and I'm sure some of those "Johnny come latelys" will have been watching hibs when you were still in your nappies.

If you're trying to get people on your side, I'd suggest you improve on your use of language, when categorizing other hibs fans.

As others on the thread have alluded to, dempster has said it's a no go, and she is the boss.

Enjoy your fight. 👊

[Hibbyradge]

after reading the thoughts of one elitist individual and his total disregard for walk-ups i've now changed my mind re: Loyalty Points, just keep it as it is LD :agree: indeed, just scrap the AST as well :thumbsup:

Who are you talking about. It's rather unfair to be so enigmatic with your insults.

I'm interested why you would scrap the AST, though. It reads like you've taken a hissy fit and gone all huffy on us because someone has a different opinion to you.

I'm sure it's not that, though.

[Hibbyradge]

You are correct about the points hoarders though, that has been a problem since the scheme began, they do this to keep themselves at the top of the tree for Man U away tickets but City are talking about revamping the whole system next season.

Same with the TA.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Who are you talking about. It's rather unfair to be so enigmatic with your insults.

I'm interested why you would scrap the ADT, though. It reads like you've taken a hissy fit and gone all huffy on us because someone has a different opinion to you.

I'm sure it's not that, though.


ofgs insults and hissy fits :faf: don't take things too seriously

[Hibbyradge]

insults and hissy fits :faf:

You're fairly rocking the enigmatic posts today.

Will we ever know who this "elitist" poster is that caused your girly tantrum?

I do hope so.

[cabbageandribs1875]

You're fairly rocking the enigmatic posts today.

Will we ever know who this "elitist" poster is that caused your girly tantrum?

I do hope so.


aw man girly tantrum now :faf:keep trying

[Hibbyradge]

aw man girly tantrum now :faf:keep trying

At least you're not denying it.

You're determined to keep the poster's identify a secret, eh?

I admire that. Gossiping just causes problems, although there may be some insecure folk wondering if it's them that is "elitist" with no regard for walk up fans.

However, you haven't explained why you are advocating the scrapping of the AST?

Come on, spill.

Or are you really just trying to make yourself appear more interesting by letting us know that you have all these secrets?

:faf:

[Rocky]

The language of 'threatening not to renew' is emotive and unhelpful. The fact is that season tickets don't make financial sense for lots of people as they work shifts / can't attend midweek matches / can't attend games that are shifted for TV so they know they'd be cheaper paying walk up prices for the games they can attend. So their decision to buy / renew is based on the additional benefits that come with a ST, i.e. guaranteed their own seat at ER and priority for away sales.

If you essentially take away (or at least drastically dilute) one of those benefits then how many people will make the judgment that it's not worthwhile any more? Let's suppose it's 500 - would we rather have 200k to spend on players in the summer window or loyalty points to satisfy those people who go to quite a lot, but not all, away matches? What's the benefit to the club of the latter, considering those people are clearly still going to those away games to support the team, or they wouldn't be fussed about loyalty points in the first place?

I don't really understand all the language that seems to suggest that away supporters are doing the club some kind of favour either. People go to away games because they WANT to go to away games - they're not making some kind of selfless sacrifice to the club.

[Hibbyradge]

I used to pay for a Cineworld card. I got cheaper entry, free 3D screenings, 25% off at the bar and invitations to pre-screenings of certain films.

There were people who didn't pay for a Cineworld membership, but who went to the cinema more often than me and they received no discounts or benefits.

That's how it works.

[MyJo]

I think it needs to be focused more on attendance than loyalty. Try and get away from this i’m a better fan than you pish that these type of things generally descend into.

i would also suggest that it encourage attendance of cup games and ensure those that do are in with a better shot at tickets when we get to finals etc.

a very basic straightforward points system that is tied to nothing other than ticket purchases.

1 point for a league game (excluding Hearts, Rangers and Celtic games)
2 points for a cup game (excluding semis & finals)
20 points for a season ticket purchase so the value of having a season ticket is maintained as someone attending all home matches on a PAYG basis will only be able to accrue 15/16 points for the season.

maintain it on a rolling basis so your overall points value will be the total points earned over the previous two seasons and the current season only. Set out the cut off points for ticket release at the start of the season so nobody can moan when they end up two points short of the next tier etc come time for buying cup final tickets. Your looking at about 50 points per season maximum under this structure so on day one allow those with 100 points or more first access, second day is for those with 60 to 99 points, third day 20 to 59, fourth day 1 to 19, fifth day is general sale for what’s left.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Kojock's post sums it up well. The number of people who would benefit from HC's proposal is less than those who would benefit from the current system.

Edit: Is that fair? Maybe not. Point is that it shows why this is a difficult decision to get right for the club, and why there will always be complaints regardless of what they do.

Is that fair? Yes it absolutely is, and your perfornative questioning is absolutely desperate.

[HibeeHibernian4]

It’s entirely predictable what this thread has descended into, it’s the same five or six posters from the last thread we had on this making the same disingenuous points and nonsense hypotheticals because they don’t want the completely unjust system changed as it suits them just fine right now.

They cannot grasp that bringing back Loyalty Points would not rule them out of any away game. If you want to improve your chances of a ticket for the (currently but soon to not be) in demand games at Tynecastle, Ibrox and Parkhead (the latter of the two are already dwindling in numbers each time we go), then you can help yourself out by following Hibs across Scotland to the other, less desirable away games that you all seem to find excuses for not attending.

[The Modfather]

Folks lives don't always revolve around what you may want to happen, it's called choice, we've all got it, and I'm sure some of those "Johnny come latelys" will have been watching hibs when you were still in your nappies.

If you're trying to get people on your side, I'd suggest you improve on your use of language, when categorizing other hibs fans.

As others on the thread have alluded to, dempster has said it's a no go, and she is the boss.

Enjoy your fight. 👊

Good post IMO. These threads are always boring and predictable with the same usual suspects all over them.

For some they only see black or white, our away support is either “Johnny come latelys” or those who attend nearly every game with those being the only examples they ever use. Despite the majority of our away support being somewhere in between those two positions. Positions which are fluid and change year to year depending on personal circumstances. I’ve been a home and away man and also not gone to any games, and every variation in between at various times.

[cabbageandribs1875]

At least you're not denying it.

You're determined to keep the poster's identify a secret, eh?

I admire that. Gossiping just causes problems, although there may be some insecure folk wondering if it's them that is "elitist" with no regard for walk up fans.

However, you haven't explained why you are advocating the scrapping of the AST?

Come on, spill.

Or are you really just trying to make yourself appear more interesting by letting us know that you have all these secrets?

:faf:


oh my, what a girly tantrum

if you think i'l give you any kind of response after your 'hissy fit' and 'girly tantrum' drama queenery, you're wrong, but i'l tell you what i will do, i'l let you have the last word....no change there :aok:ta ta

[The Modfather]

It’s entirely predictable what this thread has descended into, it’s the same five or six posters from the last thread we had on this making the same disingenuous points and nonsense hypotheticals because they don’t want the completely unjust system changed as it suits them just fine right now.

They cannot grasp that bringing back Loyalty Points would not rule them out of any away game. If you want to improve your chances of a ticket for the (currently but soon to not be) in demand games at Tynecastle, Ibrox and Parkhead (the latter of the two are already dwindling in numbers each time we go), then you can help yourself out by following Hibs across Scotland to the other, less desirable away games that you all seem to find excuses for not attending.

I think we’ve now ticked every box we all expected to see on one of these threads.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I think we’ve now ticked every box we all expected to see on one of these threads.

I don’t like posters hiding behind other Hibs fans’ low income to use it as an excuse not to go to Perth, Paisley and beyond.

If we want to make football more accessible to our least well off fans, which we hopefully all should, then how about campaigning for cheaper away ticket prices around the country. £26 at Dens for an adult the other night, for example. That’s a disgrace. Our own prices for away fans aren’t that much better.

Let’s just not pretend (this isn’t you specifically) that no Loyalty Points gives these people a chance to scrimp and save for Tynecastle, if that is the case then they could still do it because, and I cannot stress this enough, Hibs’ regular away following would occupy about half of the Roseburn Stand. There would still be 1,500+ tickets up for grabs.

[Hibbyradge]

:faf:what a girly tantrum


and a hissy fit

Ooft, you're still upset about that, I see. I really did touch a nerve.

Never mind. This too will pass. :aok:

[kaimendhibs]

Bring the points back

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[The Modfather]

I don’t like posters hiding behind other Hibs fans’ low income to use it as an excuse not to go to Perth, Paisley and beyond.

If we want to make football more accessible to our least well off fans, which we hopefully all should, then how about campaigning for cheaper away ticket prices around the country. £26 at Dens for an adult the other night, for example. That’s a disgrace. Our own prices for away fans aren’t that much better.

Let’s just not pretend (this isn’t you specifically) that no Loyalty Points gives these people a chance to scrimp and save for Tynecastle, if that is the case then they could still do it because, and I cannot stress this enough, Hibs’ regular away following would occupy about half of the Roseburn Stand. There would still be 1,500+ tickets up for grabs.

Ach, it’s all been done to death a thousand times. I’ll just never understand where “excuses” come in as to how I choose to spend my money, and more importantly, time. Or who it is i’m meant to be justifying my “excuse” to in any case.

[Sioux]

Feed the rich, to hell with rest then?

And?

You want preferential treatment because you give more money to other clubs than the rest of us?

Those who spend £thousands more then others to Hibs by purchasing tables in hospitality on a season long basis are surely entitled to some preferential treatment because of their substantial spend. Are these folks less deserving than you?

Make no mistake, the loudest voices for the points system are those that want tickets for Hertz, Rangers and Celtic away, and are the same ones that attend away matches more regularly than others, and therefore want to benefit from that. Lets keep the word loyalty out of it. The correct phrase is having access to preferential treatment, ie a benefit.

We've heard talk about Hibs fans being customers. Yes we are when we pay to attend Easter Road, but we are customers of Ranges, Dundee, Partick, Arbroath etc when we visit their grounds. In a financial sense, those that 'deserve' don't do much to deserve anything.

The priority for the club is to maximise its revenue stream, which to a large extent is home gate receipts. If fans want to travel to see a game, they do so after paying the appropriate entry fee to the host club to watch the game. Nowt to do with Hibs.

The loyalty points system benefits a very small proportion of the Hibs support, and I'd have thought it wasn't a priority for the club, and doesn't need to be.

All in my opinion of course.

[blackpoolhibs]

And?

You want preferential treatment because you give more money to other clubs than the rest of us?

Those who spend £thousands more then others to Hibs by purchasing tables in hospitality on a season long basis are surely entitled to some preferential treatment because of their substantial spend. Are these folks less deserving than you?

Make no mistake, the loudest voices for the points system are those that want tickets for Hertz, Rangers and Celtic away, and are the same ones that attend away matches more regularly than others, and therefore want to benefit from that. Lets keep the word loyalty out of it. The correct phrase is having access to preferential treatment, ie a benefit.

We've heard talk about Hibs fans being customers. Yes we are when we pay to attend Easter Road, but we are customers of Ranges, Dundee, Partick, Arbroath etc when we visit their grounds. In a financial sense, those that 'deserve' don't do much to deserve anything.

The priority for the club is to maximise its revenue stream, which to a large extent is home gate receipts. If fans want to travel to see a game, they do so after paying the appropriate entry fee to the host club to watch the game. Nowt to do with Hibs.

The loyalty points system benefits a very small proportion of the Hibs support, and I'd have thought it wasn't a priority for the club, and doesn't need to be.

All in my opinion of course.

:worms::greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

Better to feed those who are rich enough in time and money to go to lots of away games (putting their money into other clubs and transport companies) than those who put a similar amount of money into Hibs directly?

Or those that sacrifice other spending to follow the club?

[Baldy Foghorn]

And?

You want preferential treatment because you give more money to other clubs than the rest of us?

Those who spend £thousands more then others to Hibs by purchasing tables in hospitality on a season long basis are surely entitled to some preferential treatment because of their substantial spend. Are these folks less deserving than you?

Make no mistake, the loudest voices for the points system are those that want tickets for Hertz, Rangers and Celtic away, and are the same ones that attend away matches more regularly than others, and therefore want to benefit from that. Lets keep the word loyalty out of it. The correct phrase is having access to preferential treatment, ie a benefit.

We've heard talk about Hibs fans being customers. Yes we are when we pay to attend Easter Road, but we are customers of Ranges, Dundee, Partick, Arbroath etc when we visit their grounds. In a financial sense, those that 'deserve' don't do much to deserve anything.

The priority for the club is to maximise its revenue stream, which to a large extent is home gate receipts. If fans want to travel to see a game, they do so after paying the appropriate entry fee to the host club to watch the game. Nowt to do with Hibs.

The loyalty points system benefits a very small proportion of the Hibs support, and I'd have thought it wasn't a priority for the club, and doesn't need to be.

All in my opinion of course.

So someone who attends 100 games should have same chance as someone who attends 10?

[Rocky]

Or those that sacrifice other spending to follow the club?

How people choose to spend their money is none of my business but words like sacrifice are just daft imo. Nobody wakes up on a Monday morning and says 'I could really do with replacing my broken kettle but Hibs need me shouting from the stands at Dens so I'll just need to go without cuppas this week'. It's a choice people make and it's a big benefit to the team to have a noisy away support but let's not make out that folk are making a selfless contribution to the club. They go because they want to.

[Hermit Crab]

And?

You want preferential treatment because you give more money to other clubs than the rest of us?

Those who spend £thousands more then others to Hibs by purchasing tables in hospitality on a season long basis are surely entitled to some preferential treatment because of their substantial spend. Are these folks less deserving than you?

Make no mistake, the loudest voices for the points system are those that want tickets for Hertz, Rangers and Celtic away, and are the same ones that attend away matches more regularly than others, and therefore want to benefit from that. Lets keep the word loyalty out of it. The correct phrase is having access to preferential treatment, ie a benefit.

We've heard talk about Hibs fans being customers. Yes we are when we pay to attend Easter Road, but we are customers of Ranges, Dundee, Partick, Arbroath etc when we visit their grounds. In a financial sense, those that 'deserve' don't do much to deserve anything.

The priority for the club is to maximise its revenue stream, which to a large extent is home gate receipts. If fans want to travel to see a game, they do so after paying the appropriate entry fee to the host club to watch the game. Nowt to do with Hibs.

The loyalty points system benefits a very small proportion of the Hibs support, and I'd have thought it wasn't a priority for the club, and doesn't need to be.

All in my opinion of course.


So those who can afford to plough money into the club get access to away tickets but don't go to away games but then pass these tickets onto non ST holders that has been pointed out in thread already. Is that right?

[Hermit Crab]

How people choose to spend their money is none of my business but words like sacrifice are just daft imo. Nobody wakes up on a Monday morning and says 'I could really do with replacing my broken kettle but Hibs need me shouting from the stands at Dens so I'll just need to go without cuppas this week'. It's a choice people make and it's a big benefit to the team to have a noisy away support but let's not make out that folk are making a selfless contribution to the club. They go because they want to.


I can assure you that here has been occasions I've went without things to ensure there was money in my account to pay for away tickets, thats a sacrifice is it not?

[Rocky]

I can assure you that here has been occasions I've went without things to ensure there was money in my account to pay for away tickets, thats a sacrifice is it not?

I'd call it a choice on how you prioritise your money towards doing the things you want to do but if you see it as a sacrifice then I'd say it must mean you don't actually want to go to the away games but you're doing it for the benefit of the club?

[Speedy]

The language of 'threatening not to renew' is emotive and unhelpful. The fact is that season tickets don't make financial sense for lots of people as they work shifts / can't attend midweek matches / can't attend games that are shifted for TV so they know they'd be cheaper paying walk up prices for the games they can attend. So their decision to buy / renew is based on the additional benefits that come with a ST, i.e. guaranteed their own seat at ER and priority for away sales.

If you essentially take away (or at least drastically dilute) one of those benefits then how many people will make the judgment that it's not worthwhile any more? Let's suppose it's 500 - would we rather have 200k to spend on players in the summer window or loyalty points to satisfy those people who go to quite a lot, but not all, away matches? What's the benefit to the club of the latter, considering those people are clearly still going to those away games to support the team, or they wouldn't be fussed about loyalty points in the first place?

I don't really understand all the language that seems to suggest that away supporters are doing the club some kind of favour either. People go to away games because they WANT to go to away games - they're not making some kind of selfless sacrifice to the club.

Well said

[BoomtownHibees]

With all these differing opinions about what we should do or even what it should be called makes me wonder how other clubs and fans seem to be able to implement there’s without the same issues

[Speedy]

Is that fair? Yes it absolutely is, and your perfornative questioning is absolutely desperate.

Performative questioning? You're going to have to explain that one, no idea what you are talking about.

[Speedy]

With all these differing opinions about what we should do or even what it should be called makes me wonder how other clubs and fans seem to be able to implement there’s without the same issues

Every scheme will have issues but most people will come to accept them over time as the scheme becomes the way it has always been.

[Sioux]

I can assure you that here has been occasions I've went without things to ensure there was money in my account to pay for away tickets, thats a sacrifice is it not?

Its your personal choice, but how does that affect Hibs? The grateful party is the club you visit. Why not ask that club(s) for preferential treatment the next time you visit. Loyalty and all that.

[Sioux]

So those who can afford to plough money into the club get access to away tickets but don't go to away games but then pass these tickets onto non ST holders that has been pointed out in thread already. Is that right?

I don't think it is right if someone obtains two tickets and gives them away or sells them on. But equally if a 'table owner' gets two tickets, he's only got one erse. Is it not right that he chooses to give a ticket to a friend?

Not everything is black and white.

[Hermit Crab]

Its your personal choice, but how does that affect Hibs? The grateful party is the club you visit. Why not ask that club(s) for preferential treatment the next time you visit. Loyalty and all that.


It means I'm there to cheer them on, not in my armchair, Ikea or on my laptop at 3pm...

[Ozyhibby]

It means I'm there to cheer them on, not in my armchair, Ikea or on my laptop at 3pm...

You really do want special treatment don’t you? [emoji23]


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[HibeeHibernian4]

You really do want special treatment don’t you? [emoji23]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do Hearts and Aberdeen fans with more loyalty points get ‘special treatment’, or are their fellow supporters grown up enough not to throw their toys out of the pram because their chance of a ticket has slightly reduced.

The more away games you attend, the more chance you should have when an away game is suddenly in demand.

The above cannot be argued with unless you are going down the same route that rich conservatives do, which is basically an “I’m alright Jack”, keep the status quo because it benefits me even in spite of it being massively unfair and taking the piss out of Hibs’ most regular attendees.

[SHODAN]

And?

You want preferential treatment because you give more money to other clubs than the rest of us?

Those who spend £thousands more then others to Hibs by purchasing tables in hospitality on a season long basis are surely entitled to some preferential treatment because of their substantial spend. Are these folks less deserving than you?

Make no mistake, the loudest voices for the points system are those that want tickets for Hertz, Rangers and Celtic away, and are the same ones that attend away matches more regularly than others, and therefore want to benefit from that. Lets keep the word loyalty out of it. The correct phrase is having access to preferential treatment, ie a benefit.

We've heard talk about Hibs fans being customers. Yes we are when we pay to attend Easter Road, but we are customers of Ranges, Dundee, Partick, Arbroath etc when we visit their grounds. In a financial sense, those that 'deserve' don't do much to deserve anything.

The priority for the club is to maximise its revenue stream, which to a large extent is home gate receipts. If fans want to travel to see a game, they do so after paying the appropriate entry fee to the host club to watch the game. Nowt to do with Hibs.

The loyalty points system benefits a very small proportion of the Hibs support, and I'd have thought it wasn't a priority for the club, and doesn't need to be.

All in my opinion of course.

The current system benefits people who:

Work from home, or have access to a computer & employers who are accommodating of their need to buy tickets for what is essentially an entertainment event a few times a year
Have access to multiple means of acquiring tickets i.e. have multiple PCs, phones, tablets or have a mate who does
Know how to game the online system to increase their chances of getting tickets i.e. via the means above - predominantly younger more technology-savvy people or people who have been buying tickets online for ages either via Hibs or for gigs etc
Have connections with away STs who don't use them all the time i.e. as Tracy mentioned previously
Are part of a certain supporters' club with inside connections to Hibs (or at least used to)
Are part of the singing section - a members only exclusive club (I presume) with their own membership criteria and whom appear to be allocated the best seats at away games early (I used to always try and get the middle lower block at Tynie for derbies - can't get it any more)


Why should any of the above get preferential treatment?

[Speedy]

Do Hearts and Aberdeen fans with more loyalty points get ‘special treatment’, or are their fellow supporters grown up enough not to throw their toys out of the pram because their chance of a ticket has slightly reduced.

The more away games you attend, the more chance you should have when an away game is suddenly in demand.

The above cannot be argued with unless you are going down the same route that rich conservatives do, which is basically an “I’m alright Jack”, keep the status quo because it benefits me even in spite of it being massively unfair and taking the piss out of Hibs’ most regular attendees.

'If you don't agree with me you're a tory' :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

Well here’s my thrupence worth
I’ve been an away season ticket holder for 2 seasons, and previously was in the 1st dibs section with loyal loyalty points

Current Away season Ticket - Positives
Me and my daughter guaranteed a ticket for every game, this is a major plus for us
Away season Ticket Negatives
1) I take 2 kids to ER for home games, they are season ticket holders, but I’m not allowed to have seats beside me with them at away games. Means they can’t go, and too young to sit on their own

2) If a fixture changes and due to work, weddings etc, you can go, if you can’t sell it to a fellow Hibs fan, usually at a reduced cost, then Hibs fans are giving money to a rival club

Away season ticket solution for me would be
you can opt out of upto 2 away max games per season, and you can add upto 2 Season ticket holders to your away season allocation, for Category B games

Loyalty Scheme -positives of re introduced
1) Tickets sold in trunches, so only around 1000 or so at a time can get on for big away games like Hearts. Would probably stop the site crashing as well. In my case I’d get a ticket for most games, but the little lads can come too, although I might have to wait a bit later in the seat release to get one. They wouldn’t probably get the big game tickets, but that would be upto them to attend more often

2) Loyalty points only added for games that we don’t get small allocation, Gers/Celtic and of course Hearts. Think we’ve only ever sold out Aberdeen once in 20 out years. So no points for Ibrox, Celtic Park and Tynie, which stops the rich getting richer

3) It’s a question, if we’d had loyalty points for the Elgin and Raith Cup games, would we have had a bigger crowd. I think so!

4) Only tickets bought from Hibs would qualify for points. The T&C’s should be made quite clear, if you pay at the gate, you can’t claim

5) Giving points at away games like St Johnstone, Motherwell as an example, would result in larger away attendances, which can only help the team

Loyalty points negatives
The administration side of it, if it takes as long as one director told me recently
Season ticket holders not happy at not getting same rights if they only go away occasionally


Anyway that’s my thoughts and views, anyone got anything to add to this

[Hibbyradge]

Do Hearts and Aberdeen fans with more loyalty points get ‘special treatment’, or are their fellow supporters grown up enough not to throw their toys out of the pram because their chance of a ticket has slightly reduced.

The more away games you attend, the more chance you should have when an away game is suddenly in demand.

The above cannot be argued with unless you are going down the same route that rich conservatives do, which is basically an “I’m alright Jack”, keep the status quo because it benefits me even in spite of it being massively unfair and taking the piss out of Hibs’ most regular attendees.

What do you mean, it can not be argued?

Of course it can be argued. I'd rather there were incentives for people putting money into Hibs, not Dundee or Kilmarnock.

What benefits do people who go to a lot of home games, but don't have STs get?

[hibbyfraelibby]

Loyalty schemes are for the obsessed who need to get a life, have more money than sense or family priority, and stop pumping money into opposition teams coffers.

Bring back the days of the Reserve League on a Saturday playing at home if the first team was away. Turning up for those games was loyalty.

I shall now retire to my bunker and await the incoming...

[marinello59]

I can assure you that here has been occasions I've went without things to ensure there was money in my account to pay for away tickets, thats a sacrifice is it not?

Genuine question, what have you gone without? I have sacrificed nothing to watch Hibs, it’s always been my choice. A few pints or a match ticket? A meal out and a few pints or petrol to get to the game? It’s all my choice and I’ve never felt I should be rewarded for it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Genuine question, what have you gone without? I have sacrificed nothing to watch Hibs, it’s always been my choice. A few pints or a match ticket? A meal out and a few pints or petrol to get to the game? It’s all my choice and I’ve never felt I should be rewarded for it.

I eat worms once, just so i had enough money to go to a Hibs v Alloa game.

[3pm]

I eat worms once, just so i had enough money to go to a Hibs v Alloa game.

Standard meal down your way! 😎

[blackpoolhibs]

Standard meal down your way! 😎

Once i'm better, tripe will be my standard fare while i travel the country following Hibs.:wink:

[Hermit Crab]

Genuine question, what have you gone without? I have sacrificed nothing to watch Hibs, it’s always been my choice. A few pints or a match ticket? A meal out and a few pints or petrol to get to the game? It’s all my choice and I’ve never felt I should be rewarded for it.


Deliberately went without buying food once before to ensure I had money for tickets, my choice I know but thats the kind of sacrifices I'm willing to make, I don't want recognition from the club, just a fair system when it come to away tickets.

[green with envy]

Deliberately went without buying food once before to ensure I had money for tickets, my choice I know but thats the kind of sacrifices I'm willing to make, I don't want recognition from the club, just a fair system when it come to away tickets.

I totally get it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

How people choose to spend their money is none of my business but words like sacrifice are just daft imo. Nobody wakes up on a Monday morning and says 'I could really do with replacing my broken kettle but Hibs need me shouting from the stands at Dens so I'll just need to go without cuppas this week'. It's a choice people make and it's a big benefit to the team to have a noisy away support but let's not make out that folk are making a selfless contribution to the club. They go because they want to.

Saying people are rich to go to lots of games, not the case is it? Don't know many rich fans myself.....

[Rocky]

Saying people are rich to go to lots of games, not the case is it? Don't know many rich fans myself.....

It wasn't me who brought up rich - it was used to describe Edinburgh suite members. Edinburgh suite season ticket costs about £900 more than a regular season ticket. Someone who goes to lots of away games will easy spend that on match tickets / transport / booze, none of which will go to Hibs.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Imagine the team running out to no away fans?

Away fans can be worth their weight in gold.

[oneone73]

Imagine the team running out to no away fans?

Away fans can be worth their weight in gold.

Agreed

[B.H.F.C]

Imagine the team running out to no away fans?

Away fans can be worth their weight in gold.

Seems to get forgotten about these days.

It’s all about how much the club can make out of it, what’s in it for them. Football without fans and all that.....

[blackpoolhibs]

Anyone care to explain to me how we'd have no away fans at our away games? :confused:

[green day]

Seems to get forgotten about these days.

It’s all about how much the club can make out of it, what’s in it for them. Football without fans and all that.....

How much money do you estimate Hibs make out of away tickets?

[B.H.F.C]

How much money do you estimate Hibs make out of away tickets?

Nothing but I wasn’t suggesting they do. One of the counter arguments to a loyalty scheme from some is the fact that the club don’t make anything out of away tickets, therefore shouldn’t bother having any form of scheme that benefits those who travel away..IMO I think that’s wrong.

[HH81]

When these threads pop up, I just imagine Hermit and Baldy to get into their number 1 Hibs fan printed t shirt whilst replying to all posts that don't agree they are the best Hibs fans.

My thoughts on this are Hibs need to have the system that makes them the most money possible. If that means keeping it as it is so be it.

[Billy Whizz]

When these threads pop up, I just imagine Hermit and Baldy to get into their number 1 Hibs fan printed t shirt whilst replying to all posts that don't agree they are the best Hibs fans.

My thoughts on this are Hibs need to have the system that makes them the most money possible. If that means keeping it as it is so be it.

The system is so so slow, and not easy to navigate

[Ozyhibby]

When these threads pop up, I just imagine Hermit and Baldy to get into their number 1 Hibs fan printed t shirt whilst replying to all posts that don't agree they are the best Hibs fans.

My thoughts on this are Hibs need to have the system that makes them the most money possible. If that means keeping it as it is so be it.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Baldy Foghorn]

When these threads pop up, I just imagine Hermit and Baldy to get into their number 1 Hibs fan printed t shirt whilst replying to all posts that don't agree they are the best Hibs fans.

My thoughts on this are Hibs need to have the system that makes them the most money possible. If that means keeping it as it is so be it.

Really? Any need?

[Billy Whizz]

Really? Any need?

Wouldn’t worry, few bell ends on this thread. You keep up supporting the Hibs home and away! We have lots of great supporters who do this!
If it wasn’t for the lines of you and a few others, running buses, a lot less supporters wouldn’t be able to go

[Baldy Foghorn]

Wouldn’t worry, few bell ends on this thread. You keep up supporting the Hibs home and away! We have lots of great supporters who do this!
If it wasn’t for the lines of you and a few others, running buses, a lot less supporters wouldn’t be able to go

Cheers Billy. Boy always try to be a smart Alec, could have got his point over without petty digs imo

[Carheenlea]

It`s interesting to note that while our ST numbers are at record levels, our travelling support has not really increased that much from what it always has been. When our home crowds were at their lowest during bleak times we still took crowds of over 1000 around the country. This suggests that the majority of ST holders enjoy their alternate Saturday Hibs fix at Easter Road and are happy to do what most other football fans do, enjoy the ritual of going along to see their club at home. Away days are not for everyone, for many understandable reasons, and for me this is why I can`t agree that a ST is devalued with a Loyalty Scheme. For a lot of fans, travelling away is just not something they wish to do.

Our travelling support is a small, but regular percentage of our support, and those fans should be catered for when demand is high and tickets are limited, not because they are any better than anyone else but simply out of fairness that the fans who travel the most often to less attractive fixtures are given first chance to buy for the more attractive away games.

Plus, the argument about the cost of such a scheme - a loyalty scheme might be cheaper to run than the extra cost involved of upgrading our contract with Ticketmaster to accommodate the larger volume of fans online at the same time, which has been the main problem since the abolition of the scheme.

[Iggy Pope]

Really? Any need?

It’s an easy comment to pass if you only need a ticket once in a while. I’ll get all the **** about staying in Halifax or somewhere and doing what he does is great, blah blah blah, but truth is he’ll attend an away game or two a season if that. Now we are out the cups and we don’t play at Dumfries anymore then probably less. And he’s far from alone. These are the sorts most prolific on these threads. The ones it affects least.

If the club had either retained or adjusted the system they had (like most other clubs of our stature seem to do without bleating about cost or making up stories about abuse of staff) or better still hadn’t screwed around with it like they did at HSL bonanza time, then this wouldn’t be a debate. Not even close.
Ms Dempster ****ed up and won’t turn back. She has no excuse for disenfranchising a lot of travelling fans by forcing them into an occasional online lottery to watch their team.

[Scouse Hibee]

When these threads pop up, I just imagine Hermit and Baldy to get into their number 1 Hibs fan printed t shirt whilst replying to all posts that don't agree they are the best Hibs fans.

My thoughts on this are Hibs need to have the system that makes them the most money possible. If that means keeping it as it is so be it.

Have either of them ever said they were the best Hibs fans? All I see is guys who are extremely passionate about Hibs who devote lots of their time, energy and money into following Hibs. I believe one of them even devotes plenty of his own time to ensure many other Hibs fans can get to away games. I see nothing wrong in either expressing their passion and commitment on here.

[The Modfather]

Have either of them ever said they were the best Hibs fans? All I see is guys who are extremely passionate about Hibs who devote lots of their time, energy and money into following Hibs. I believe one of them even devotes plenty of his own time to ensure many other Hibs fans can get to away games. I see nothing wrong in either expressing their passion and commitment on here.

Can’t disagree with any of that, however phrases like “Johnny Come Lately” don’t do them any favours either in terms of coming across as having an air of superiority IMO.

[Keith_M]

When I was fourteen, I had enough money to get into ER but not enough for a return bus fare. So, I walked from Wallyford to Easter Road, on my own, and got the bus home. The walk took about two and a half hours.

In light of which, I think I'm the ultimate Über Fan!

[Iggy Pope]

When I was fourteen, I had enough money to get into ER but not enough for a return bus fare. So, I walked from Wallyford to Easter Road, on my own. The walk took about two and a half hours.

In light of which, I think I'm the ultimate Über Fan!

Interesting, but in the grand scheme probably not relevant?

PS two and a half hours? Wee legs then, not Uber ones. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Interesting, but in the grand scheme probably not relevant?


Surely it gets me some Loyalty Points?


:dunno:

[Keith_M]

...........

PS two and a half hours? Wee legs then, not Uber ones. :greengrin


I wasn't very tall at fourteen.

Anyway, I'd be willing to bet that even Hermit Crab wasn't there that day!!

[Duncan Smith]

Some great debate on this so far folks with some great ideas on how to improve the way tickets are currently sold.

The survey has had a great response in the first couple of days. I will continue to leave the survey open to allow as many supporters the opportunity to complete it.
If you haven’t completed the survey yet, please take a minute or two to have your say.
Whether you are for or against the reintroduction, its important to give your opinion as a supporter.


https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LoyaltyAttendancePoints

[SideBurns]

When I was fourteen, I had enough money to get into ER but not enough for a return bus fare. So, I walked from Wallyford to Easter Road, on my own, and got the bus home. The walk took about two and a half hours.

In light of which, I think I'm the ultimate Über Fan!

In 1990, skivved work to get the bus tae Milwall for a Friday night 'friendly'.

Got ma heid kicked in and lost a day's wages. Be disingenuous to claim it was a sacrifice mind, since I didnae plan to get filled in or for the boss to find oot! 😁

[Hibbyradge]

I used to hitchhike to away games (when I'd missed the bus cos of hangovers).

I also drove from York to South Gyle to drop her indoors off after a wee trip away and then went to Tannadice to watch Hibs.

I was paying the toll on the Forth Road Bridge when the radio said that the game had kicked off.

I got into the ground before the second half started.

We were losing 5-0 and that's how the game ended.

And don't get me started about London to Edinburgh to Videoton.

How many loyalty points is all that worth?

'Kin uber, me. :agree:

[Hibbyradge]

In 1990, skivved work to get the bus tae Milwall for a Friday night 'friendly'.

Got ma heid kicked in and lost a day's wages. Be disingenuous to claim it was a sacrifice mind, since I didnae plan to get filled in or for the boss to find oot! 😁

I was at that game. We got let in for nothing when it all kicked off.

I still hate Millwall.

[SideBurns]

I was at that game. We got let in for nothing when it all kicked off.

I still hate Millwall.

Me too Hibbyradge. Always happy to hear they've been cuffed.

[3pm]

I have had an AST for 2 of the 3 years.

First year and this year. Being honest, I have probably struggled more from an affordability point of view this year but wanted to make sure I got a ticket for the games I missed out on last year at Celtic and Hearts. Had been to Killie and Dundee midweek for example so was disappointed to miss out.

Based on my own experience, I think loyalty points is the way but I don’t think it will happen.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned or not but Hibs have not played at 3pm on a Saturday away from home since December 8. It’s not always convenient to make a game that has been rearranged and when it happens so often I think it’s not great to have to commit to an AST.

Anyways...

[Rocky]

Some great debate on this so far folks with some great ideas on how to improve the way tickets are currently sold.

The survey has had a great response in the first couple of days. I will continue to leave the survey open to allow as many supporters the opportunity to complete it.
If you haven’t completed the survey yet, please take a minute or two to have your say.
Whether you are for or against the reintroduction, its important to give your opinion as a supporter.


https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LoyaltyAttendancePoints

A hypothetical question for you if I may? If you're elected and if your poll shows strong support for the reintroduction of loyalty points and you go along to your first board meeting and Leeann shows you compelling market research that shows we'd sell 500 fewer season tickets if they're brought back in, and therefore we'd have £200k less to spend on players, what would your stance be?

[Hermit Crab]

Really? Any need?


Just another smart arse B

[Hibbyradge]

A hypothetical question for you if I may? If you're elected and if your poll shows strong support for the reintroduction of loyalty points and you go along to your first board meeting and Leeann shows you compelling market research that shows we'd sell 500 fewer season tickets if they're brought back in, and therefore we'd have £200k less to spend on players, what would your stance be?

The survey will show strong support for a reintroduction, but the results are almost meaningless.

There are 13000+ season ticket holders plus walk up fans and folk who only go occasionally. They've not all been asked.

[green with envy]

When I left school aged 16 in '78 I got an apprentice as a carpet fitter. I didn't realise that I would have to work Saturday mornings. For the first couple away games of the season I would get the train one game being Dundee Utd for which I missed the first half and would come back on the Liberton Travel this being the branch that I was a member of. At the start of September the boss pulled me into his office and told me he was giving me the sack due To me always having to ask for time off on a Saturday on away day. My old man threatened to kill me when he found out the reason. Thankfully I got another apprenticeship within a couple of weeks. When I told my old man that I was thinking of going to Strasburg to see Hibs a few weeks later, he told me that if I went and got sacked again from my job I'd be kicked out. I never did go to Strasburg.

[Rocky]

The survey will show strong support for a reintroduction, but the results are almost meaningless.

There are 13000+ season ticket holders plus walk up fans and folk who only go occasionally. They've not all been asked.

I know, but as Duncan is using the loyalty points debate as part of his campaign strategy I'm interested to know how he'd handle the situation I described.

[Hibbyradge]

I know, but as Duncan is using the loyalty points debate as part of his campaign strategy I'm interested to know how he'd handle the situation I described.

Yes, I saw that and I should have acknowledged it.

[ian cruise]

Some great debate on this so far folks with some great ideas on how to improve the way tickets are currently sold.

The survey has had a great response in the first couple of days. I will continue to leave the survey open to allow as many supporters the opportunity to complete it.
If you haven’t completed the survey yet, please take a minute or two to have your say.
Whether you are for or against the reintroduction, its important to give your opinion as a supporter.


https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LoyaltyAttendancePoints

Duncan I know you've made it a pledge to address this point should you be elected as supporters rep but what will happen with this survey if another candidate such as Frank or Kieran were to win, will you be pursuing this through them or still on your own? It's obviously created a large amount of discussion on here and I'd imagine elsewhere also so it would be interesting to know the next steps both should you be or not be elected?

[Hibernian32]

Pledges & election talk this is .net not Westminster Daily.

make .net great again

[Duncan Smith]

A hypothetical question for you if I may? If you're elected and if your poll shows strong support for the reintroduction of loyalty points and you go along to your first board meeting and Leeann shows you compelling market research that shows we'd sell 500 fewer season tickets if they're brought back in, and therefore we'd have £200k less to spend on players, what would your stance be?

My stance would be that our club would have to market the Season Ticket using the loyalty / attendance points scheme as an incentive to purchase a Season Ticket.

Continuing to purchase a Season Ticket for a second season should reward our supporters loyalty, give them more points, a better opportunity to purchase Cat A away tickets with having to stop their working day or even take time off to join in a lottery scheme and still not get a ticket.

500 is a lot of ST to lose and as you say £200k from our budget, we have to be proactive here and make sure we do our best to retain ST at these numbers. I think we will see a reduction In ST for next season. It could be a great time to reintroduce the points.

Hypothetically if the survey also showed that supporters who didn’t go to our Scottish Cup matches at home but they would’ve attended if they were to be awarded loyalty / attendance point then the club would realise an opportunity to increase our gate revenue.

[Stairway 2 7]

There should be loyalty points granted, but running on this is a bit like me running and saying elect me and I'll ask the board to get Messi.

[Duncan Smith]

Duncan I know you've made it a pledge to address this point should you be elected as supporters rep but what will happen with this survey if another candidate such as Frank or Kieran were to win, will you be pursuing this through them or still on your own? It's obviously created a large amount of discussion on here and I'd imagine elsewhere also so it would be interesting to know the next steps both should you be or not be elected?

Should I be elected I would hope to engage in further discussion with the supporters on how they would like the scheme proposed to the board.
There have been some great ideas proposed on this thread, for example two year rolling points, how the tickets should be offered to different levels of points.
Purpose of this would to be to build a strong case to present to the board members instead of just advising the supporters would like change.

If I was not elected then I’d certainly be offering the results to Tracey and the newly elected representative and also the working together group. It would be up to the individuals on how they use these results but as a supporter myself I’d hope they would be used to represent our views.
I’d also be delighted to help persue this with both the Supporters Representatives if they required my assistance.

[Rocky]

My stance would be that our club would have to market the Season Ticket using the loyalty / attendance points scheme as an incentive to purchase a Season Ticket.

Continuing to purchase a Season Ticket for a second season should reward our supporters loyalty, give them more points, a better opportunity to purchase Cat A away tickets with having to stop their working day or even take time off to join in a lottery scheme and still not get a ticket.

500 is a lot of ST to lose and as you say £200k from our budget, we have to be proactive here and make sure we do our best to retain ST at these numbers. I think we will see a reduction In ST for next season. It could be a great time to reintroduce the points.

Hypothetically if the survey also showed that supporters who didn’t go to our Scottish Cup matches at home but they would’ve attended if they were to be awarded loyalty / attendance point then the club would realise an opportunity to increase our gate revenue.

I don't actually think that answers the question which was simply if it came down to a choice between cold hard cash to spend on the team or being 'fairer' to people who go to lots of away games then which side would you come down on. I've already voted anyway though so I'll leave it to others to judge.

As an aside, whatever the outcome of the loyalty points thing, I think a ballot system should be explored to help manage demand for high profile games and get away from the issue of wasting time trying to navigate the ticket site at midday when games go on sale.

[Duncan Smith]

The survey will show strong support for a reintroduction, but the results are almost meaningless.

There are 13000+ season ticket holders plus walk up fans and folk who only go occasionally. They've not all been asked.

I hear you on this. That’s why I’d encourage supporters to complete the survey. The more supporters that take part in the survey, the bigger the voice they will have in asking for change. Board won’t listen to a survey of only 100 people. (There’s a lot more than 100 completed so far)

[SChibs]

There should be loyalty points granted, but running on this is a bit like me running and saying elect me and I'll ask the board to get Messi.

He's the wrong side of 30. We should be looking at going hungry players with sell on value.

[Danderhall Hibs]

He's the wrong side of 30. We should be looking at going hungry players with sell on value.

:agree: his legs have gone.

[Stairway 2 7]

He's the wrong side of 30. We should be looking at going hungry players with sell on value.

Will mbappe get me your vote

[hibbyfraelibby]

When I was fourteen, I had enough money to get into ER but not enough for a return bus fare. So, I walked from Wallyford to Easter Road, on my own, and got the bus home. The walk took about two and a half hours.

In light of which, I think I'm the ultimate Über Fan!

Woose getting a bus home. When I were a lad there were no buses...

[SChibs]

Will mbappe get me your vote

I feel like we really need decent players familiar with the league. Has Connor Salmon currently got a club? He could do a job.

[Hermit Crab]

Maybe if this gathers enough pace the LD may at least be willing to discuss it, hopefully the 2019/20 season will be the last season of the AST.

[PatHead]

I feel like we really need decent players familiar with the league. Has Connor Salmon currently got a club? He could do a job.

You fishing?

[Eyrie]

You fishing?

I think you're leaping to a conclusion.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Maybe if this gathers enough pace the LD may at least be willing to discuss it, hopefully the 2019/20 season will be the last season of the AST.

I love the AST

[Keith_M]

Woose getting a bus home. When I were a lad there were no buses...


Horse and cart, was it?


:greengrin