Why are Tory MP Brexiters so ignorant?

[lapsedhibee]

Leaving aside the whole question of how so many know or understand so little about Ireland (see, for example, Andrew 'As an Englishman I'm entitled to an Irish passport' Bridgen)...

The laddie Eustice who resigned yesterday said that postponing the Brexit date would mean that the EU would "literally have us over the barrel of a gun". Shirley if there's a point at all to toffs attending private schools it's to be able to speak The Queen's English? You put someone over a barrel either to flog them or to dry them out after near-drowning, stuff like that. That doesn't work over a rifle. What he probably meant was we would be looking down the barrel of a gun.

If they're going to dribble pish from their mouths for the whole of the rest of this month, which I'm sure they are, at least they might make a bit more effort to make it idiomatically correct pish.

[JeMeSouviens]

Leaving aside the whole question of how so many know or understand so little about Ireland (see, for example, Andrew 'As an Englishman I'm entitled to an Irish passport' Bridgen)...

The laddie Eustice who resigned yesterday said that postponing the Brexit date would mean that the EU would "literally have us over the barrel of a gun". Shirley if there's a point at all to toffs attending private schools it's to be able to speak The Queen's English? You put someone over a barrel either to flog them or to dry them out after near-drowning, stuff like that. That doesn't work over a rifle. What he probably meant was we would be looking down the barrel of a gun.

If they're going to dribble pish from their mouths for the whole of the rest of this month, which I'm sure they are, at least they might make a bit more effort to make it idiomatically correct pish.

An aside - Bridgen made his money in potato farming. Seemingly he is known in parliament as "Spud-u-hate". :greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

Why are tories so arrogant?

Because they have money and can be as arrogant as they want.

[Smartie]

Why are tories so arrogant?

Because they have money and can be as arrogant as they want.

Why would anyone want to be that arrogant though?

There are plenty of people who have plenty of money who choose a path of humility.

[Mantis Toboggan]

Entitlement and arrogance being drummed in to them through schooling from a young age would be one explanation

[Glory Lurker]

Entitlement and arrogance being drummed in to them through schooling from a young age would be one explanation

Exactly.

[stoneyburn hibs]

The class diversity in the UK (stick GB) is disgusting.
Hopefully we move away soon

[Fife-Hibee]

Why would anyone want to be that arrogant though?

There are plenty of people who have plenty of money who choose a path of humility.

Many people make their millions out of being ruthless, arrogant, manipulative and selfish towards others. They suffer from all of the well known symptoms of psychopathy. Their lack of empathy towards other peoples emotions removes what they percieve as a barrier to power, money and success.

Theresa May is a great example. Her emotionless mono tone voice isn't some coincidence. She only knows how to make decisions that advances herself. That's why she's able to keep a straight face when she repeats the same rhetoric time and time again with no regard to how her actions are impacting other people and their lives.

[Don Giovanni]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-46528952

Above is an article from a mid December that highlights Tory arrogance towards Ireland :bitchy:

Below is an article in which a Tory cabinet minister admits she did not know about the political divisions within Northern Ireland. Despite this complete ignorance of the situation Karen Bradley is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland :bitchy:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-admits-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics

[Smartie]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-46528952

Above is an article from a mid December that highlights Tory arrogance towards Ireland :bitchy:

Below is an article in which a Tory cabinet minister admits she did not know about the political divisions within Northern Ireland. Despite this complete ignorance of the situation Karen Bradley is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland :bitchy:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-admits-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics

Devil's advocate here - might it be better having someone in that job who has no pre-conceived notions as to what it is all about over the many tories who will be pro-Union, pro-establishment, triumphalist fuds who will favour one "side" over the other there?

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-46528952

Above is an article from a mid December that highlights Tory arrogance towards Ireland :bitchy:

Below is an article in which a Tory cabinet minister admits she did not know about the political divisions within Northern Ireland. Despite this complete ignorance of the situation Karen Bradley is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland :bitchy:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-admits-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics

Something of a surprise to me that more Tory Brexiters haven't been on the tellybox proclaiming that the correct way round all of the backstop problems is simply for Éire to leave the EU.

[Hibrandenburg]

Something of a surprise to me that more Tory Brexiters haven't been on the tellybox proclaiming that the correct way round all of the backstop problems is simply for Éire to leave the EU.

They have been.

[lapsedhibee]

They have been.

Not much on council telly here, I don't think.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not much on council telly here, I don't think.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/john-humphrys-suggests-ireland-could-quit-eu-and-join-uk

[PeeJay]

Devil's advocate here - might it be better having someone in that job who has no pre-conceived notions as to what it is all about over the many tories who will be pro-Union, pro-establishment, triumphalist fuds who will favour one "side" over the other there?

Having someone with no pre-conceived notions is one thing, having someone who desn't have a clue about anything is something else entirely, surely? :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/john-humphrys-suggests-ireland-could-quit-eu-and-join-uk

That's a radio broadcaster making mischief, not a Tory MP making a suggestion. I think I heard Kate Hoey getting pretty close to suggesting it, but so far I've not heard it out loud from a Tory Brexiter, which surprises me.

[JeMeSouviens]

A week before the DPP announces whether there will be prosecutions against former paratroopers involved in Bloody Sunday, the Tory NI secretary Karen Bradley says in the Commons:

"The fewer than 10% that were at the hands of the military and police were not crimes. They were people acting under orders and acting under instruction and fulfilling their duties in a dignified and appropriate way."

The same NI sec who didn't realise that Nationalists and Unionists voted for Nationalist and Unionist political parties. It beggars belief.

[Bristolhibby]

A week before the DPP announces whether there will be prosecutions against former paratroopers involved in Bloody Sunday, the Tory NI secretary Karen Bradley says in the Commons:

"The fewer than 10% that were at the hands of the military and police were not crimes. They were people acting under orders and acting under instruction and fulfilling their duties in a dignified and appropriate way."

The same NI sec who didn't realise that Nationalists and Unionists voted for Nationalist and Unionist political parties. It beggars belief.

Also, orders can be illegal if they don’t follow the rules of engagement.

Which I’m sure murdering 28 civilians is.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

Murdo Fraser managed to make World Book Day comment suggested that reading is not worth it.

https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1103380928158679040?s=19

[Hibrandenburg]

Also, orders can be illegal if they don’t follow the rules of engagement.

Which I’m sure murdering 28 civilians is.

J

It's goes further than that, to carry out an illegal order is also illegal.

[JeMeSouviens]

Karen Bradley's apology:


I want to be very clear – I do not believe what I said, that is not my view

:confused:

Her and Grayling, it's incredible how far they've sunk from such a low starting point.

[lapsedhibee]

Perhaps the stupidest of the lot.

Mark Francois does not understand the difference between All As are B and All Bs are A. He hears them as exactly the same.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47497183/brexit-will-self-and-mark-francois-on-racists-and-anti-semites (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47497183/brexit-will-self-and-mark-francois-on-racists-and-anti-semites)

[lapsedhibee]

But Conservative MP Michael Fabricant leapt to his colleague’s defence, tweeting: “No-one can call ME an anti-semite [sic].

“I voted for #Brexit. @wself just espousing narrow north London ‘metropolitan elite’ view.”

[JeMeSouviens]

Exchange between Eddie Mair and Liz Truss about a 2nd ref on LBC radio this morning:


Eddie: “What about people who have changed their minds on Brexit?”

Liz Truss: “I don’t think people have changed their minds”

Eddie: “You have”

Liz Truss: “I have, thats true…”

:greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Perhaps the stupidest of the lot.

Mark Francois does not understand the difference between All As are B and All Bs are A. He hears them as exactly the same.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47497183/brexit-will-self-and-mark-francois-on-racists-and-anti-semites (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47497183/brexit-will-self-and-mark-francois-on-racists-and-anti-semites)

He really is dense, and wears a poppy ... in March :crazy:

[Hibrandenburg]

Exchange between Eddie Mair and Liz Truss about a 2nd ref on LBC radio this morning:



:greengrin

:faf:

[Colr]

He really is dense, and wears a poppy ... in March :crazy:

Are we sure he’s real? He looks like a Harry Enfield character to me.

[steakbake]

He really is dense, and wears a poppy ... in March :crazy:

Don't know if he's early or late!

On topic - the way we do politics has changed. Political ideas are no longer usually an accumulation of facts, observation and evidence combined with a particular theoretical approach and have become a matter of personal conviction.

Facts and critical analysis are meaningless. Process and procedure, irrelevant. It's all about achieving the personal conviction.

To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail etc.

[JeMeSouviens]

Tweet from Steven Swinford the Deputy Pol Ed of the Telegraph


Latest from Cabinet

Theresa May raised concerns about frequency & scale of leaks from Cabinet

She said there are too many and they are happening too often

:faf:

[Colr]

But Conservative MP Michael Fabricant leapt to his colleague’s defence, tweeting: “No-one can call ME an anti-semite [sic].

“I voted for #Brexit. @wself just espousing narrow north London ‘metropolitan elite’ view.”


I love the idea that I’m in the elite. My mum will be so proud.

Colr
North London

[lapsedhibee]

Even well-educated Tory remainers are talking nonsense now.

Education Secretary Damian Hinds told the BBC that MPs had to "get on with" approving a Brexit deal - although he said another vote would not take place until ministers had "some confidence" of victory.

"You can't keep on kicking the ball further and further down the street," he told Radio 4's Today. "You have to pick up and run with it."


Presumably he was trying to say 'kicking the can down the road', which is actually an expression in English with a meaning, but got all confused with the glory days when he used to play rugger at school and ended up just talking pish.

[lapsedhibee]

"Take the ERG vice-chair, Mark Francois, a sort of inflatable idiot who has spent the past few months bobbing around the broadcast studios like some remnant of the worst ever stag weekend. Can someone please deflate it? Otherwise we will continue to have situations like the one this morning, when Mark explained to Talkradio: “Europe is free because of us.” I mean … I don’t mean to come across as tolerably informed, but Mr Francois’ recent historical interjections have been of such staggering imbecility that they suggest not simply that he has failed to understand the contributions of the Soviet Union and the United States to the second world war – that is a given – but that the very existence of those powers would be news to him."

[Jack Hackett]

"Take the ERG vice-chair, Mark Francois, a sort of inflatable idiot who has spent the past few months bobbing around the broadcast studios like some remnant of the worst ever stag weekend. Can someone please deflate it? Otherwise we will continue to have situations like the one this morning, when Mark explained to Talkradio: “Europe is free because of us.” I mean … I don’t mean to come across as tolerably informed, but Mr Francois’ recent historical interjections have been of such staggering imbecility that they suggest not simply that he has failed to understand the contributions of the Soviet Union and the United States to the second world war – that is a given – but that the very existence of those powers would be news to him."

... Now where have I heard that line before :hmmm:

[JeMeSouviens]

"Take the ERG vice-chair, Mark Francois, a sort of inflatable idiot who has spent the past few months bobbing around the broadcast studios like some remnant of the worst ever stag weekend. Can someone please deflate it? Otherwise we will continue to have situations like the one this morning, when Mark explained to Talkradio: “Europe is free because of us.” I mean … I don’t mean to come across as tolerably informed, but Mr Francois’ recent historical interjections have been of such staggering imbecility that they suggest not simply that he has failed to understand the contributions of the Soviet Union and the United States to the second world war – that is a given – but that the very existence of those powers would be news to him."

The same column calls the ERG “the fellowship of the ringpieces”. :faf:

[JeMeSouviens]

Francois demands another Tory leadership vote as “the situation has changed.”

Irony meters everywhere explode.

[JeMeSouviens]

Meanwhile May pleads with the EU27 to give her an A50 extension. The governments of Ireland, France, Spain, Netherlands and Germany to meet before tomorrow’s summit to decide.

Taking back control, ****** marvellous.

[lapsedhibee]

Meanwhile May pleads with the EU27 to give her an A50 extension. The governments of Ireland, France, Spain, Netherlands and Germany to meet before tomorrow’s summit to decide.

Taking back control, ****** marvellous.

It's a bit of an embarrassment/humiliation, but the prize of becoming Empress of India one minute after midnight on Brexit day will shirley be worth a little suffering just now.

[JeMeSouviens]

Andrew Lilico - chairman of Economists for Brexit, the band of Minford inspired nutters, tweeting about the Cooper-Letwin bill:

"Our constitution needs some equivalent of the constitutional monarchy that *would* intervene in such situations to protect democracy & constitutional procedure against rapacious politicians. If our current monarchy cannot perform the task we will require something new."

:faf:

[JeMeSouviens]

Former UKIP* leadership candidate Suzanne Evans agrees:

"I’m an ardent royalist and love our @RoyalFamily but this is spot on. Bitterly disappointed."



* technically not a current Tory but she is a former Tory councillor and certainly meets the Brexiter and ignorant criteria.

[lapsedhibee]

Andrew Lilico - chairman of Economists for Brexit, the band of Minford inspired nutters, tweeting about the Cooper-Letwin bill:

"Our constitution needs some equivalent of the constitutional monarchy that *would* intervene in such situations to protect democracy & constitutional procedure against rapacious politicians. If our current monarchy cannot perform the task we will require something new."

:faf:

****. Is this going to mean we all have to choose between being Roundheads and Cavaliers? That's going to be divisive. What about a referendum to decide? :dunno:

[cabbageandribs1875]

mon the Roundheids :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

mon the Roundheids :agree:

**** that, ya puritanical short-haired *******. Anything less than full-time pleasure-seeking and merrymaking constitutes betrayal :agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

**** that, ya puritanical short-haired *******. Anything less than full-time pleasure-seeking and merrymaking constitutes betrayal :agree:


that's a cavalier attitude :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1115580477094748161

:greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

At the Bruges Group:

https://twitter.com/johnjohnstonmi/status/1115571554136489986

These guys are gold!

[One Day Soon]

****. Is this going to mean we all have to choose between being Roundheads and Cavaliers? That's going to be divisive. What about a referendum to decide? :dunno:

What we really, really could be doing with right now - rather than the Queen as Head of State - is a Presidential contest between either Farage or Boris Johnson on one side and Galloway or Diane Abbot on the other. What could possibly go wrong?

[JeMeSouviens]

This is brilliant. Someone brought a complaint to IPSO about one of Boris Johnson's columns where he said No Deal was "this future that is by some margin preferred by the British public" based on polls although he didn't actually reference any (surprise!)

This is the Telegraph's defence of their star columnist:


that the writer was entitled to make sweeping generalisations based on his opinions and that the complainant had misconstrued the purpose of the article; it was clearly comically polemical, and could not be reasonably read as a serious, empirical, in-depth analysis of hard factual matters.

Says it all.

[Jack Hackett]

This is brilliant. Someone brought a complaint to IPSO about one of Boris Johnson's columns where he said No Deal was "this future that is by some margin preferred by the British public" based on polls although he didn't actually reference any (surprise!)

This is the Telegraph's defence of their star columnist:



Says it all.

:faf:

So it's OK to lie as long as you're being 'comically polemical'

That one deserves a double :faf:

[lapsedhibee]

:faf:

So it's OK to lie as long as you're being 'comically polemical'

That one deserves a double :faf:

Think it's established that to lead a modern democracy you don't have to even pretend to tell the truth, so I doubt if BoJo gives a hoot about any IPSO conclusion.

[Fife-Hibee]

Says it all.

Could be applied to every article in that rag tbh. The whole thing is one big comedy piece for clowns to read.

[lapsedhibee]

The Saj has described Ireland as "the tail that wags the dog". Nae real, as they say in Aberdeen.

[Moulin Yarns]

Worth a read, and listen to the video 😂. The ignorance of the man.


https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/06/02/street-tories-and-the-precious/

[JeMeSouviens]

Worth a read, and listen to the video 😂. The ignorance of the man.


https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/06/02/street-tories-and-the-precious/

I'm pretty sure I can guess what Adam Smith would've thought of Brexit.

[lapsedhibee]

Worth a read, and listen to the video 😂. The ignorance of the man.


https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/06/02/street-tories-and-the-precious/

Wouldn't have pronounced it like that, but wouldn't have pronounced it like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN4Cv4REPI4) either!

[wakeyhibs]

All as bad as eachother. Every one of them. It’s impossible to vote. I didn’t vote because I knew it would divide everybody. Snp are obsessed with the eu but not once have the eu came out and said anything about Scotland. So F them all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

All as bad as eachother. Every one of them. It’s impossible to vote. I didn’t vote because I knew it would divide everybody. Snp are obsessed with the eu but not once have the eu came out and said anything about Scotland. So F them all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can't suggest that nobody in the Eu support an independent Scotland as a member of the EU. There are literally dozens of European politicians saying exactly that.

[Moulin Yarns]

Wouldn't have pronounced it like that, but wouldn't have pronounced it like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN4Cv4REPI4) either!

Of all the places in Scotland beginning with C he chose that!!!!

Crail, Crieff, Comrie and Callander all come to mind.

[Fife-Hibee]

All as bad as eachother. Every one of them. It’s impossible to vote. I didn’t vote because I knew it would divide everybody. Snp are obsessed with the eu but not once have the eu came out and said anything about Scotland. So F them all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except each and every time they come out and say an independent Scotland would be fully welcomed? :dunno:

[Smartie]

https://i.redd.it/gyyt59bv08p21.jpg

[wakeyhibs]

Except each and every time they come out and say an independent Scotland would be fully welcomed? :dunno:


I ain’t saying this but their is no statement from Brussels saying please Scotland stay in....on another fact the only good thing about brexit is it will destroy tories employment agency’s using innocent people for Slave labour and using free movement to do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

Johnson's usually more suited to the Tory liars thread, but amusing to see him getting telt by a Belgian:

Johnson repeatedly declares that Britain must leave the EU “do or die” by 31 October, but he misquotes the Charge of the Light Brigade by Alfred, Lord Tennyson:

“Theirs not to make reply / Theirs not to reason why / Theirs but to do and die. / Into the valley of death / Rode the six hundred.”

It is telling that these three words, do or die, misrepresent a poem about a famous British military catastrophe. We must not allow an injurious Brexit strategy, wrongly wrapped up in an English flag, to harm us all.

[lapsedhibee]

Not a Tory. Just for balance, to make Francois and Bridgen seem less completely out of their depth.
https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-party-ben-habib-irish-border-northern-ireland-republic-9034036 :faf:

[Future17]

Worth a read, and listen to the video 😂. The ignorance of the man.


https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/06/02/street-tories-and-the-precious/

That's just bizarre. Aside from anything else, in what way is an individual (any individual) an example of the benefit of a union of nations?