The other side of the venezuela story-otherwise known as the truth

[andybev1]

https://therealnews.com/stories/venezuela-us-canadian-attempted-coup-not-about-democracy-paul-jay-pt1-2

[Ozyhibby]

That article offers nothing other than whataboutery in the way the media talks about Chavez.
What does it matter how the US media talk about Chavez? He had full control of Venezuela’s media so it should not have made a difference?
It blames the sanctions but they only began in May 2018 and Venezuela has been in free fall for about 10 years now. They had food shortages in 2010.
10% of the population have fled the country. Is that the sign of a success story?
Venezuela is just the latest sad country to fall for socialism, an ideology that is racking up a fair old body count now.


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[PeeJay]

https://therealnews.com/stories/venezuela-us-canadian-attempted-coup-not-about-democracy-paul-jay-pt1-2

The "truth"?? Just another poorly-written, hardly objective article bashing the USA - "the root of all evil" as those who know the truth keep on assuring us ...

[hibsbollah]

https://nypost.com/2019/02/22/pray-for-venezuela-today/

I know it's the Post, but still. Watch the casual insertion of the word 'legitimate' leader, as if he had ever actually won an election.

When a democratically elected government is overthrown, the way that coup is reported is absolutely vital in how public opinion around the world responds to it. Coups in Venezuela, Ukraine or anywhere else where it is in the US interest to overthrow the government is usually couched in terms of the corrupt/bad/poor murderous nature of whoever came before. The message is that democracy is usually inviolable, unless it's in western interests, when it's just something to skirt over. He becomes legitimate by nature of the press saying he is.

[Ozyhibby]

When a democratically elected government is overthrown, the way that coup is reported is absolutely vital in how public opinion around the world responds to it. Coups in Venezuela, Ukraine or anywhere else where it is in the US interest to overthrow the government is usually couched in terms of the corrupt/bad/poor murderous nature of whoever came before. The message is that democracy is inviolable, unless it's in western interests.

Was Maduro democratically elected? There are not many respected authorities who think that was not a rigged poll.


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[hibsbollah]

Was Maduro democratically elected? There are not many respected authorities who think that was not a rigged poll.


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He won a democratic election, with claims of vote rigging by the other side.

The current guy 'in charge' has no democratic mandate at all. But we are told he is the 'legitimate' leader. Because he's staged a coup. So to answer your earlier question Yes, it matters a lot how the US media reports things.

[Ozyhibby]

He won a democratic election, with claims of vote rigging by the other side.

The current guy 'in charge' has no democratic mandate at all. But we are told he is the 'legitimate' leader. Because he's staged a coup. So to answer your earlier question Yes, it matters a lot how the US media reports things.

The current guy in charge is still Maduro.


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[hibsbollah]

The current guy in charge is still Maduro.


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Guaido has announced himself the leader, the US has demanded he be the leader (precedent? mandate?) with dark threats of military intervention if it doesn't come to pass.

Maduro is in office but not in power. It's only a matter of time.

[ZAGREB RED]

I watched a documentary on the iPlayer recently all about Chavez and his spectacular rise and fall, very interesting but obviously also very sad to see. I think it can only be watched online, doesn't seem to be on Sky catch up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0byvs08/sign/revolution-in-ruins-the-hugo-chavez-story


(https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0byvs08/sign/revolution-in-ruins-the-hugo-chavez-story)

[Ozyhibby]

Guaido has announced himself the leader, the US has demanded he be the leader (precedent? mandate?) with dark threats of military intervention if it doesn't come to pass.

Maduro is in office but not in power. It's only a matter of time.

I hope you are right for the sake of the Venezuelans.
There won’t need to be a military intervention. The Venezuelan people will be the ones who bring about change but until the army switch sides then it is still Maduro in power and the starvation continues.
I see this morning that the army have been attacking people trying to leave for Columbia. Like all other socialist regimes, it eventually becomes a prison camp.


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[hibsbollah]

Like all other socialist regimes, it eventually becomes a prison camp.

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Hmm. I hope there won't 'need' to be an 'intervention' either.

[Fife-Hibee]

You'd be forgiven for thinking that Venezuela had one of the largest oil reseves in the world..... just like Libya, just like Iraq, just like Iran (who are next on the list).

[Glory Lurker]

There's been atrocities in Sudan and Myanmar, and conditions in many central African countries are a disgrace to humanity. They don't really get attention. I'll be honest, I don't know anything about Venezuela, but I'm guessing it's not a new nadir for the human race. Yet the BBC is buzzing about it like a fly.

[Ozyhibby]

There's been atrocities in Sudan and Myanmar, and conditions in many central African countries are a disgrace to humanity. They don't really get attention. I'll be honest, I don't know anything about Venezuela, but I'm guessing it's not a new nadir for the human race. Yet the BBC is buzzing about it like a fly.

Rich or formerly rich countries get way more attention than African countries.


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[Ozyhibby]

You'd be forgiven for thinking that Venezuela had one of the largest oil reseves in the world..... just like Libya, just like Iraq, just like Iran (who are next on the list).

The problems in Venezuela are internal. They have been able to sell oil freely until a few weeks ago.


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[lyonhibs]

Does it not cost about 2 grand to buy a loaf of bread in Venezuela, if they even have any on the shelves?

I'm not an expert in the intricacies, but change in the circumstances described above must, at least in principle, be seen a good thing no?

[hibsbollah]

Does it not cost about 2 grand to buy a loaf of bread in Venezuela, if they even have any on the shelves?

I'm not an expert in the intricacies, but change in the circumstances described above must, at least in principle, be seen a good thing no?

The rampant hyperinflation is basically due to mismanagement of oil revenues under Chavez, I don't think there's much argument about that.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/045tkZsvwFgF7T1EHfefBG?si=61dlZuKmQSezbtM8m_9Q-A

[Glory Lurker]

Rich or formerly rich countries get way more attention than African countries.


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Has Venezuela ever been rich? Like first world rich?

Central African Republic, I’ve heard (not researched, so setting myself up here), is possibly the most asset rich country on earth. Impression i’ve got of that place is that it is a horror story, but I take it they generally do what we want. Suspect the two are connected.

Instead, of course, we could stop rating the worthiness of human suffering against how much it’s worth to the rich.

Nah, don’t worry, nurse, I’ll get the screens myself :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

Has Venezuela ever been rich? Like first world rich?

Central African Republic, I’ve heard (not researched, so setting myself up here), is possibly the most asset rich country on earth. Impression i’ve got of that place is that it is a horror story, but I take it they generally do what we want. Suspect the two are connected.

Instead, of course, we could stop rating the worthiness of human suffering against how much it’s worth to the rich.

Nah, don’t worry, nurse, I’ll get the screens myself :rolleyes:

Its not so much the resources that made Venezuela rich, it’s the people. Just having resources without an educated population won’t make a country rich.


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[Tornadoes70]

You'd be forgiven for thinking that Venezuela had one of the largest oil reseves in the world..... just like Libya, just like Iraq, just like Iran (who are next on the list).

I don't think your opinion matters as its purely one of inward looking fascist nationalistic tendencies.

Mon Labour

[stoneyburn hibs]

I don't think your opinion matters as its purely one of inward looking fascist nationalistic tendencies.

Mon Labour

Haha, back to your best. Sadly you forgot the Scottish part, or maybe not my Corbyniesta friend 😁

[Pretty Boy]

In the simplest terms:

If people are starving to death in your country and you close the borders to prevent aid entering thereby placing ideology over life then you are a ****.

On the other side if people are starving to death in a country and dying from preventable diseases and you place sanctions on a country preventing aid, food, medicines entering and assisting in causing hyper inflation thereby using people as pawns in an ideological game then you are also a ****.

[Curried]

If anyone believes this is about anything other than Venezuela's oil reserves, i'd suggest that they are being very naive.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-world-s-largest-oil-reserves-by-country.html

Keep lapping up the MSM.

As Mark Twain prophetically said - "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed".

[Ozyhibby]

In the simplest terms:

If people are starving to death in your country and you close the borders to prevent aid entering thereby placing ideology over life then you are a ****.

On the other side if people are starving to death in a country and dying from preventable diseases and you place sanctions on a country preventing aid, food, medicines entering and assisting in causing hyper inflation thereby using people as pawns in an ideological game then you are also a ****.

There are no sanctions on aid, food, medicines etc. The hyper inflation started a long time before any sanctions began.


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[Fife-Hibee]

If anyone believes this is about anything other than Venezuela's oil reserves, i'd suggest that they are being very naive.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-world-s-largest-oil-reserves-by-country.html

Keep lapping up the MSM.

As Mark Twain prophetically said - "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed".

Of course it's about the oil reserves AND the Rothschild banking network. You don't see the US "bringing democracy" to the Central African Republic.

[RyeSloan]

Those claiming ‘it’s all about oil’ seem to have missed the fact that the US is now an net exporter of oil.

The world doesn’t need Venezuela oil, as has been evidenced by the oil price as their output has slumped.

To put it simply the world is awash with oil and and the US is no longer reliant on external supplies like it was 10 - 20 years ago.

The oil game has changed and so has the geo political forces along with it.

[judas]

The "truth"?? Just another poorly-written, hardly objective article bashing the USA - "the root of all evil" as those who know the truth keep on assuring us ...

Yes it does get tiresome listening to the ‘its all the states fault’ line.

[judas]

Does it not cost about 2 grand to buy a loaf of bread in Venezuela, if they even have any on the shelves?


That sounds a lot like my local Margiottas.

[One Day Soon]

Of course it's about the oil reserves AND the Rothschild banking network. You don't see the US "bringing democracy" to the Central African Republic.


I can't wait for further elaboration of this...

[Fife-Hibee]

I can't wait for further elaboration of this...

Are you honestly that unaware?

[lyonhibs]

Are you honestly that unaware?

Yes. I am at least. Feel free to enlighten me.

[Curried]

Those claiming ‘it’s all about oil’ seem to have missed the fact that the US is now an net exporter of oil.

The world doesn’t need Venezuela oil, as has been evidenced by the oil price as their output has slumped.

To put it simply the world is awash with oil and and the US is no longer reliant on external supplies like it was 10 - 20 years ago.

The oil game has changed and so has the geo political forces along with it.


Aye right enough. Just keep you head in the sand. You probably think the US invaded Iraq, Libya, and Kuwait (and is itching to do the same to Iran and Venezuela) because it wants to bring these countries democracy? LOL. All of these countries are ranked as having one of the 10 largest oil reserves on the planet.

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then chances are it probably is a duck!

If you don’t want to open your eyes to what's driving the attempted destabilisation of Venezuela , then here’s another recent example of Petrochemical Geopolitics.

Wait for it……. the war in Syria is about the North Dome gas field between Qatar and Iran, and how these countries can get the gas to market in Europe.

Why are they trying to do this? Well, because it’s very costly to compress it and ship it through the Strait of Hormuz.

What’s the solution? Well, both counties have been planning competing pipelines. The Qatar one was planned to run through Saudi, Jordan and Syria into Turkey, while the Iranian one was planned to go through Iraq, Syria and then sub-sea through the Med to Europe.

How did the war start? Assad signed off on the Iran plan in 2012 and it was due to be completed in 2016 but it was ultimately delayed because of the Arab Spring and the civil war. When Qatar found out they started throwing money and arms at their Sunni brothers in Daesh (under the oversight of the US) to promote a revolution against Assad’s Shia majority regime in Syria. The Russians off-course weighed-in because it was in their interest to regulate the gas supply to Europe. The rest, as they say, is history.

Off-course you won’t read this take in any mainstream UK newspaper. It’s just not a convenient message to send out i.e. that the world superpowers are conducting proxy wars in far-away countries over energy resources.

[Ozyhibby]

Aye right enough. Just keep you head in the sand. You probably think the US invaded Iraq, Libya, and Kuwait (and is itching to do the same to Iran and Venezuela) because it wants to bring these countries democracy? LOL. All of these countries are ranked as having one of the 10 largest oil reserves on the planet.

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then chances are it probably is a duck!

If you don’t want to open your eyes to what's driving the attempted destabilisation of Venezuela , then here’s another recent example of Petrochemical Geopolitics.

Wait for it……. the war in Syria is about the North Dome gas field between Qatar and Iran, and how these countries can get the gas to market in Europe.

Why are they trying to do this? Well, because it’s very costly to compress it and ship it through the Strait of Hormuz.

What’s the solution? Well, both counties have been planning competing pipelines. The Qatar one was planned to run through Saudi, Jordan and Syria into Turkey, while the Iranian one was planned to go through Iraq, Syria and then sub-sea through the Med to Europe.

How did the war start? Assad signed off on the Iran plan in 2012 and it was due to be completed in 2016 but it was ultimately delayed because of the Arab Spring and the civil war. When Qatar found out they started throwing money and arms at their Sunni brothers in Daesh (under the oversight of the US) to promote a revolution against Assad’s Shia majority regime in Syria. The Russians off-course weighed-in because it was in their interest to regulate the gas supply to Europe. The rest, as they say, is history.

Off-course you won’t read this take in any mainstream UK newspaper. It’s just not a convenient message to send out i.e. that the world superpowers are conducting proxy wars in far-away countries over energy resources.

That’s one theory. I personally think the the drought between 2006 and 2010 was much more to blame. It made hundreds of thousands of people unemployed and forced up food prices. The Assad government then started handing out licenses to drill water wells on a sectarian basis which created the perfect conditions for an uprising.
Let’s be clear, America has not invaded Venezuela, it got here all on its own. Sanctions only began a couple of months ago.


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[Curried]

That’s one theory. I personally think the the drought between 2006 and 2010 was much more to blame. It made hundreds of thousands of people unemployed and forced up food prices. The Assad government then started handing out licenses to drill water wells on a sectarian basis which created the perfect conditions for an uprising.
Let’s be clear, America has not invaded Venezuela, it got here all on its own. Sanctions only began a couple of months ago.


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A little bit more than a theory i'd suggest. Here's 10 billion reasons:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903591104576467631289250392

[RyeSloan]

Aye right enough. Just keep you head in the sand. You probably think the US invaded Iraq, Libya, and Kuwait (and is itching to do the same to Iran and Venezuela) because it wants to bring these countries democracy? LOL. All of these countries are ranked as having one of the 10 largest oil reserves on the planet.

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then chances are it probably is a duck!

If you don’t want to open your eyes to what's driving the attempted destabilisation of Venezuela , then here’s another recent example of Petrochemical Geopolitics.

Wait for it……. the war in Syria is about the North Dome gas field between Qatar and Iran, and how these countries can get the gas to market in Europe.

Why are they trying to do this? Well, because it’s very costly to compress it and ship it through the Strait of Hormuz.

What’s the solution? Well, both counties have been planning competing pipelines. The Qatar one was planned to run through Saudi, Jordan and Syria into Turkey, while the Iranian one was planned to go through Iraq, Syria and then sub-sea through the Med to Europe.

How did the war start? Assad signed off on the Iran plan in 2012 and it was due to be completed in 2016 but it was ultimately delayed because of the Arab Spring and the civil war. When Qatar found out they started throwing money and arms at their Sunni brothers in Daesh (under the oversight of the US) to promote a revolution against Assad’s Shia majority regime in Syria. The Russians off-course weighed-in because it was in their interest to regulate the gas supply to Europe. The rest, as they say, is history.

Off-course you won’t read this take in any mainstream UK newspaper. It’s just not a convenient message to send out i.e. that the world superpowers are conducting proxy wars in far-away countries over energy resources.

Thanks for the history lesson but as this thread is about the current situation in Venezuela...your post is everything but.

The fact is the Venezuela needs oil revenues not that the US needs Venezuela oil.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2019-02-24/rise-of-shale-oil-and-opec-cuts-leave-supertankers-empty

Maduro has overseen a dramatic slump in oil output which combined with all his other mindless policies and tactics has forced his nation to mass emigration and starvation.

While I’m sure the US (and plenty of other countries around the world excluding those bastions of fair play China and Russia) will happily see him gone it’s simply not correct to blame the situation on US meddling...Maduro has brought this upon himself and the quicker he steps down the better it will be for his people.

[Curried]

Thanks for the history lesson but as this thread is about the current situation in Venezuela...your post is everything but.

The fact is the Venezuela needs oil revenues not that the US needs Venezuela oil.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2019-02-24/rise-of-shale-oil-and-opec-cuts-leave-supertankers-empty (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2019-02-24/rise-of-shale-oil-and-opec-cuts-leave-supertankers-empty)

Maduro has overseen a dramatic slump in oil output which combined with all his other mindless policies and tactics has forced his nation to mass emigration and starvation.

While I’m sure the US (and plenty of other countries around the world excluding those bastions of fair play China and Russia) will happily see him gone it’s simply not correct to blame the situation on US meddling...Maduro has brought this upon himself and the quicker he steps down the better it will be for his people.


OK. I think it’s time now for your hydrocarbon 101 lesson.

Production in Venezuela has dropped since 2015 in consort with most oil producing counties due to the US flooding the market with this finite resource over the same period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Crude_Oil_Production_and_Imports.svg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Crude_Oil_Production_and_Imports.svg)

As a result, thousand of oil workers and downstream businesses were forced to lay-off staff from Scotland to Australia and all points in-between.

I understand your empathy with the people of Venezuela, but their current oil production (and by extension their National economy) has been directly tanked by the US.

The price of oil crashed because the US manipulated the market. In most wealthy oil producing countries it’s simply not economically viable to extract oil at less than $55USD/barrel. There are however other places on the planet (including Venezuela) for Chevron and ExxonMobil to make a good margin.

[McSwanky]

That sounds a lot like my local Margiottas.

:top marks:greengrin

[RyeSloan]

OK. I think it’s time now for your hydrocarbon 101 lesson.

Production in Venezuela has dropped since 2015 in consort with most oil producing counties due to the US flooding the market with this finite resource over the same period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Crude_Oil_Production_and_Imports.svg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Crude_Oil_Production_and_Imports.svg)

As a result, thousand of oil workers and downstream businesses were forced to lay-off staff from Scotland to Australia and all points in-between.

I understand your empathy with the people of Venezuela, but their current oil production (and by extension their National economy) has been directly tanked by the US.

The price of oil crashed because the US manipulated the market. In most wealthy oil producing countries it’s simply not economically viable to extract oil at less than $55USD/barrel. There are however other places on the planet (including Venezuela) for Chevron and ExxonMobil to make a good margin.

I’m well aware of the oil market dynamics and prices thanks. We can debate all day long if the oil price crash was a result of the US ramping shale production or the Saudi’s trying to force those same producers out of business.

However that action was not the main driver behind Venezuela dropping production, they didn’t do that in a controlled manner on a profit/cost basis but was almost purely due to the chronic mismanagement of PDVSA.

One rather obviously example of that is Maduro placing a National Guard General with zero industry knowledge in charge...just one of many many missteps in how they have managed their resource.

The litany of failure at PDVSA is long, very long. Lack of investment, huge reduction in workers (a third have left in 4 years), more and more military involvement etc etc etc.

So to try and suggest that the output fall to the lowest in over 50 years was a direct result of a deliberate plan from the US just doesn’t hold water.

That fall has of course been exacerbated by the need to pay their creditors in oil (No need to guess who that are: China and Russia of course...both in the hole for many billions to Maduro...billions that are meant to be paid back with oil and thus reducing even further the revenue available to Venezuela for oil sales) and their woeful mismanagement of their refining capability.

To ignore all of the internal self inflicted harm Maduro has caused PDVSA , the cash for oil loan deals with Russia and China and to blame the situation solely on the US can only be described as deliberately misleading.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m well aware of the oil market dynamics and prices thanks. We can debate all day long if the oil price crash was a result of the US ramping shale production or the Saudi’s trying to force those same producers out of business.

However that action was not the main driver behind Venezuela dropping production, they didn’t do that in a controlled manner on a profit/cost basis but was almost purely due to the chronic mismanagement of PDVSA.

One rather obviously example of that is Maduro placing a National Guard General with zero industry knowledge in charge...just one of many many missteps in how they have managed their resource.

The litany of failure at PDVSA is long, very long. Lack of investment, huge reduction in workers (a third have left in 4 years), more and more military involvement etc etc etc.

So to try and suggest that the output fall to the lowest in over 50 years was a direct result of a deliberate plan from the US just doesn’t hold water.

That fall has of course been exacerbated by the need to pay their creditors in oil (No need to guess who that are: China and Russia of course...both in the hole for many billions to Maduro...billions that are meant to be paid back with oil and thus reducing even further the revenue available to Venezuela for oil sales) and their woeful mismanagement of their refining capability.

To ignore all of the internal self inflicted harm Maduro has caused PDVSA , the cash for oil loan deals with Russia and China and to blame the situation solely on the US can only be described as deliberately misleading.

Not to mention the fact that Maduro supplies Cuba with oil for free in return for the Cuban security services propping up his regime.


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[Curried]

I’m well aware of the oil market dynamics and prices thanks. We can debate all day long if the oil price crash was a result of the US ramping shale production or the Saudi’s trying to force those same producers out of business.

However that action was not the main driver behind Venezuela dropping production, they didn’t do that in a controlled manner on a profit/cost basis but was almost purely due to the chronic mismanagement of PDVSA.

One rather obviously example of that is Maduro placing a National Guard General with zero industry knowledge in charge...just one of many many missteps in how they have managed their resource.

The litany of failure at PDVSA is long, very long. Lack of investment, huge reduction in workers (a third have left in 4 years), more and more military involvement etc etc etc.

So to try and suggest that the output fall to the lowest in over 50 years was a direct result of a deliberate plan from the US just doesn’t hold water.

That fall has of course been exacerbated by the need to pay their creditors in oil (No need to guess who that are: China and Russia of course...both in the hole for many billions to Maduro...billions that are meant to be paid back with oil and thus reducing even further the revenue available to Venezuela for oil sales) and their woeful mismanagement of their refining capability.

To ignore all of the internal self inflicted harm Maduro has caused PDVSA , the cash for oil loan deals with Russia and China and to blame the situation solely on the US can only be described as deliberately misleading.

When you're in a hole stop digging.

Oil production in Venezuela has dropped markedly over 4 years but is still close to historical highs. What has changed is the global value of that oil on world markets. That's the simple reason as to why large numbers have lost their jobs in Venezuela and are undoubtedly finding life hard. In your own words "a third have left in 4 years".

[makaveli1875]

OK. I think it’s time now for your hydrocarbon 101 lesson.

Production in Venezuela has dropped since 2015 in consort with most oil producing counties due to the US flooding the market with this finite resource over the same period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Crude_Oil_Production_and_Imports.svg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Crude_Oil_Production_and_Imports.svg)

As a result, thousand of oil workers and downstream businesses were forced to lay-off staff from Scotland to Australia and all points in-between.

I understand your empathy with the people of Venezuela, but their current oil production (and by extension their National economy) has been directly tanked by the US.

The price of oil crashed because the US manipulated the market. In most wealthy oil producing countries it’s simply not economically viable to extract oil at less than $55USD/barrel. There are however other places on the planet (including Venezuela) for Chevron and ExxonMobil to make a good margin.

I dont think you can really compare Venezuela to Scotland or Australia . Scotland and Australia could increase production any time they like . Venezuela cant because Chavez and Maduru have ruined their main oil company to the point where it has no money to invest in taking the stuff out the ground .

[RyeSloan]

When you're in a hole stop digging.

Oil production in Venezuela has dropped markedly over 4 years but is still close to historical highs. What has changed is the global value of that oil on world markets. That's the simple reason as to why large numbers have lost their jobs in Venezuela and are undoubtedly finding life hard. In your own words "a third have left in 4 years".

Quote simply you are wrong.

Historical heights were near 3.5mbpd in the 1990’s

Latest figures show that to be 1.15mbpd and still dropping.

Production has cratered for multiple reasons not least non payments to oil service companies, politically motivated firings of staff, military meddling and a severe shortage of investment.

But since you seem unable to accept these well documented facts feel free to link any statistic you want that shows that their oil output ‘is still close to historical highs’ of 3.5mbpd and I’ll happily stand corrected.

[Ozyhibby]

When you're in a hole stop digging.

Oil production in Venezuela has dropped markedly over 4 years but is still close to historical highs. What has changed is the global value of that oil on world markets. That's the simple reason as to why large numbers have lost their jobs in Venezuela and are undoubtedly finding life hard. In your own words "a third have left in 4 years".

That’s absolute rubbish.
This article was written long before any sanctions were imposed.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/09/news/companies/venezuela-oil-industry/index.html



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[One Day Soon]

Are you honestly that unaware?

Please explain.

[RyeSloan]

I can't wait for further elaboration of this...

Here you go [emoji12]

https://jdreport.com/complete-list-banks-owned-or-controlled-by-the-rothschild-family/

[James310]

Here you go [emoji12]

https://jdreport.com/complete-list-banks-owned-or-controlled-by-the-rothschild-family/

The Rothschilds do not own the Bank of England! 😂

The Bank of England is the central bank of the United Kingdom and was established as a corporate body by Royal Charter under the Bank of England Act 1694. The Bank was nationalised on 1 March 1946, and gained operational independence to set interest rates in 1997 (the Bank of England Act 1998 Part II sets out the responsibilities and objectives of the Bank in relation to monetary policy).

The Bank is a public sector institution, wholly-owned by the government, but accountable to Parliament. The entire capital of the Bank is, in fact, held by the Treasury solicitor on behalf of HM Treasury. Each year, the Bank is required to submit its Report and Accounts to Parliament, via the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

[Ozyhibby]

Here you go [emoji12]

https://jdreport.com/complete-list-banks-owned-or-controlled-by-the-rothschild-family/

That’s a fun read.[emoji23]
Sad thing is there will be plenty who believe it.


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[RyeSloan]

That’s a fun read.[emoji23]
Sad thing is there will be plenty who believe it.


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I particularly liked the inclusion of the Central Bank Of Aruba....there has clearly been no stone left unturned by the Rothschilds in their march to global banking supremacy [emoji1787]

[James310]

Are you honestly that unaware?

So as per the article quoted do you believe the Rothchilds own the Bank of England?

[Ozyhibby]

I particularly liked the inclusion of the Central Bank Of Aruba....there has clearly been no stone left unturned by the Rothschilds in their march to global banking supremacy [emoji1787]

I’m shocked that Wakanda is not there.


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[Mibbes Aye]

I particularly liked the inclusion of the Central Bank Of Aruba....there has clearly been no stone left unturned by the Rothschilds in their march to global banking supremacy [emoji1787]

Once you have the Arubans the rest will follow :agree:

[Curried]

That’s absolute rubbish.
This article was written long before any sanctions were imposed.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/09/news/companies/venezuela-oil-industry/index.html



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Stop slaverin!

Oil prices crashed between June 2014 and January 2016 and have remained depressed. Currently WTI oil is $57.26 a barrel. That’s almost half of its value in June 2014 ($111.27). The point at which the US started ramping up production.

BTW I wouldn't put my faith on CNN to provide an impartial line on Venezuela.

[Curried]

Quote simply you are wrong.

Historical heights were near 3.5mbpd in the 1990’s

Latest figures show that to be 1.15mbpd and still dropping.

Production has cratered for multiple reasons not least non payments to oil service companies, politically motivated firings of staff, military meddling and a severe shortage of investment.

But since you seem unable to accept these well documented facts feel free to link any statistic you want that shows that their oil output ‘is still close to historical highs’ of 3.5mbpd and I’ll happily stand corrected.

Historically, production has been zero (0) in Venezuela, and I believe once dropped to this during the early 2000's.
Current production of 1.15mbpd is closer to 3.5mbpd than 0 is, so I don't believe i'm incorrect in saying that current production is close to historical highs.

The important point is that much of the recent decline has occurred over the same period in which the US has been flooding the market with cheap oil.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Aye right enough. Just keep you head in the sand. You probably think the US invaded Iraq, Libya, and Kuwait (and is itching to do the same to Iran and Venezuela) because it wants to bring these countries democracy? LOL. All of these countries are ranked as having one of the 10 largest oil reserves on the planet.

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then chances are it probably is a duck!

If you don’t want to open your eyes to what's driving the attempted destabilisation of Venezuela , then here’s another recent example of Petrochemical Geopolitics.

Wait for it……. the war in Syria is about the North Dome gas field between Qatar and Iran, and how these countries can get the gas to market in Europe.

Why are they trying to do this? Well, because it’s very costly to compress it and ship it through the Strait of Hormuz.

What’s the solution? Well, both counties have been planning competing pipelines. The Qatar one was planned to run through Saudi, Jordan and Syria into Turkey, while the Iranian one was planned to go through Iraq, Syria and then sub-sea through the Med to Europe.

How did the war start? Assad signed off on the Iran plan in 2012 and it was due to be completed in 2016 but it was ultimately delayed because of the Arab Spring and the civil war. When Qatar found out they started throwing money and arms at their Sunni brothers in Daesh (under the oversight of the US) to promote a revolution against Assad’s Shia majority regime in Syria. The Russians off-course weighed-in because it was in their interest to regulate the gas supply to Europe. The rest, as they say, is history.

Off-course you won’t read this take in any mainstream UK newspaper. It’s just not a convenient message to send out i.e. that the world superpowers are conducting proxy wars in far-away countries over energy resources.

You completely miss the most important bit of context.

The USA are unapologetic in their highly intervensionist approach to the Americas, and have intervened numerous times in countries without oil.

It is more aboit keeping other global powers' influence away from 'their' hemisphere.

This approach (the Monroe Doctrine, if memory serves) is pretty close to official US policy, and has been for over a century.

[lapsedhibee]

Historically, production has been zero (0) in Venezuela, and I believe once dropped to this during the early 2000's.
Current production of 1.15mbpd is closer to 3.5mbpd than 0 is, so I don't believe i'm incorrect in saying that current production is close to historical highs.

The important point is that much of the recent decline has occurred over the same period in which the US has been flooding the market with cheap oil.

You think it's right that 1.15 is close to 3.5?

In an Ann Budge press release maybe.

[RyeSloan]

Historically, production has been zero (0) in Venezuela, and I believe once dropped to this during the early 2000's.
Current production of 1.15mbpd is closer to 3.5mbpd than 0 is, so I don't believe i'm incorrect in saying that current production is close to historical highs.

The important point is that much of the recent decline has occurred over the same period in which the US has been flooding the market with cheap oil.

Ha ha aye OK then.

1.15 is closer to 3.5 than to zero. With logic like that who can doubt anything you say....

[lapsedhibee]

Ha ha aye OK then.

1.15 is closer to 3.5 than to zero. With logic like that who can doubt anything you say....

Not what he actually claimed.

To claim that 1.15 is close to 3.5 only makes sense if the scale is, say, -50 to +5, not if the scale is 0 to 3.5.

[Ozyhibby]

Stop slaverin!

Oil prices crashed between June 2014 and January 2016 and have remained depressed. Currently WTI oil is $57.26 a barrel. That’s almost half of its value in June 2014 ($111.27). The point at which the US started ramping up production.

BTW I wouldn't put my faith on CNN to provide an impartial line on Venezuela.

So oil prices fell. Non socialist countries coped. Venezuela didn’t.


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[RyeSloan]

Not what he actually claimed.

To claim that 1.15 is close to 3.5 only makes sense if the scale is, say, -50 to +5, not if the scale is 0 to 3.5.

Yes they did claim that:

“Current production of 1.15mbpd is closer to 3.5mbpd than 0”

Anyway the point has been made over and over regarding the reason for their output drop and there is a wealth of reporting on the trials and tribulations of PDVSA that goes all the way back to when Chavez took charge for anyone that cares to look.

If someone wants to continue to ignore all of that and simply blame it on the US shale production (production that btw tends to have significant differences in API to Venezuelan crude) and global prices then there is little point in continuing any discussion.

[lapsedhibee]

Yes they did claim that:

“Current production of 1.15mbpd is closer to 3.5mbpd than 0”



No. The claim was that 1.15 is closer to 3.5 than 0 is.

[RyeSloan]

No. The claim was that 1.15 is closer to 3.5 than 0 is.

Ahh got ya! [emoji2957] My mistake.

[Curried]

Deary me....how low can you go!

https://twitter.com/SoniaKatiMota/status/1100170014387253249

[Curried]

On a related subject much closer to home......How Scotland was shafted over oil:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17461396.the-big-unionist-cover-up-how-scotlands-future-was-stolen/

[One Day Soon]

Of course it's about the oil reserves AND the Rothschild banking network. You don't see the US "bringing democracy" to the Central African Republic.

Still waiting for your explanation on this one.

[Ozyhibby]

Still waiting for your explanation on this one.

There is no explanation. It’s just conspiracy nonsense.


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[ZAGREB RED]

Watched a good documentary on the rise and fall of Hugo Chavez and the way things went in Venezuela under him on the iPlayer recently, not sure if it's still on or not, worth a watch if it is.
Just checked, it is only for another 10 days :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0byvs08/sign/revolution-in-ruins-the-hugo-chavez-story

[jonty]

On a related subject much closer to home......How Scotland was shafted over oil:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17461396.the-big-unionist-cover-up-how-scotlands-future-was-stolen/

While I don't usually get too bothered about their headlines, to ramp it up as some sort of exclusive when it was first reported 15 years ago, was a bit much.
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1100736555952402432 - in the 30 years since it was published (it was published 45 years ago)

"Makes history" by publishing the report - i assume that's because its the full report and not excerpts (the full report has been available for some time?)

"Two McCrone reports"? - sensationalism - only one was about Scotlands oil. https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1100751655593603072

Disappointing really. That's the kind of nonsense I'd expect from the red tops.

[James310]

While I don't usually get too bothered about their headlines, to ramp it up as some sort of exclusive when it was first reported 15 years ago, was a bit much.
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1100736555952402432 - in the 30 years since it was published (it was published 45 years ago)

"Makes history" by publishing the report - i assume that's because its the full report and not excerpts (the full report has been available for some time?)

"Two McCrone reports"? - sensationalism - only one was about Scotlands oil. https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1100751655593603072

Disappointing really. That's the kind of nonsense I'd expect from the red tops.

Plus McCrone himself said the report was never supressed.

I suspect it was a ploy to sell more copies as they made a big point about how people should buy copies and give to their friends.

[Fife-Hibee]

Still waiting for your explanation on this one.

What kind of "explaination" are you looking for?

They own the banking network that every country in the world with the exception of a handful (i'll let you figure out who) are signed up to. Whether they wanted to be or not.


There is no explanation. It’s just conspiracy nonsense.

A conspiracy is only nonsense in the mind of a fool who doesn't bother to ask questions or look into things further.

[One Day Soon]

What kind of "explaination" are you looking for?

They own the banking network that every country in the world with the exception of a handful (i'll let you figure out who) are signed up to. Whether they wanted to be or not.



A conspiracy is only nonsense in the mind of a fool who doesn't bother to ask questions or look into things further.


Parking my 'reservations' about your assertion that the Rothschilds own the banking network for the moment, what would be their relationship to the present Venezuelan crisis if they did?

[RyeSloan]

What kind of "explaination" are you looking for?

They own the banking network that every country in the world with the exception of a handful (i'll let you figure out who) are signed up to. Whether they wanted to be or not.



A conspiracy is only nonsense in the mind of a fool who doesn't bother to ask questions or look into things further.

What do you mean by ‘banking network’?

[James310]

What kind of "explaination" are you looking for?

They own the banking network that every country in the world with the exception of a handful (i'll let you figure out who) are signed up to. Whether they wanted to be or not.



A conspiracy is only nonsense in the mind of a fool who doesn't bother to ask questions or look into things further.

I asked you before but you never answered. Do you believe the Rothchilds own the Bank of England?

[Lester B]

A conspiracy is only nonsense in the mind of a fool who doesn't bother to ask questions or look into things further.

How profound. What if you do look into things further and find that it is nonsense? Conspiracy theories make those who hold them feel superior and special. They're still abject nonsense. Chemitrails, anti vax, flat earthers, moon landings, GMO, the Rothschilds, Big Pharma, the Deep State....all examples of where people who hold these views use selective unreliable sources and speculative, weak reasoning to prove they are above those 'fools' who believe the more credible view.

[Ozyhibby]

https://capx.co/for-the-few-not-the-many-meet-the-real-beneficiaries-of-venezuelan-socialism/


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[Pete]

https://capx.co/for-the-few-not-the-many-meet-the-real-beneficiaries-of-venezuelan-socialism/


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“CapX was founded to make the case for popular capitalism: now more than ever, it is vital that the case is made for markets, innovation and competition”

🤨

[Ozyhibby]

“CapX was founded to make the case for popular capitalism: now more than ever, it is vital that the case is made for markets, innovation and competition”

[emoji2955]

Yes but is what they say true?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1123225491996016640?s=21

Fighting breaking out now.


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