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we are hibs
18-02-2019, 08:40 AM
MISSING X-FACTOR*There’s something missing at Hibs these days..and it’s not just 5,000 fans, says Bill Leckie

A ground that, just a few months ago was the most exciting and unpredictable in the land, suddenly feels mired in mediocrity

COMMENT

By Bill Leckie

18th February 2019,*7:44 am

Updated: 18th February 2019,*7:44 am

SOMETHING doesn’t quite add up at Easter Road these days.

And it’s not just the calculator they use to count the gates.

Because, along with about a third of the 16,000-odd the tannoy told us turned up for new manager Paul Heckingbottom’s first game in charge, they were missing an X-factor. A buzz. Their pizzazz.

A ground that, just a few months ago was the most exciting and unpredictable in the land, suddenly feels mired in mediocrity.


From genuinely believing they could be Best Of The Rest, they’re fretting over clambering into the top six by the split.

It’s a dip in* attitude and atmosphere brought into sharp* focus by the comparison between this season’s two home clashes with Accies.

Last time they came calling, on the* first Saturday in October, there* genuinely*WEREclose on 17,000 in the house, rising as one to a 6-0 romp peppered with strikes from all angles, lifting them just two points off early league leaders*Hearts.

That performance summed up all that was good about life under Neil Lennon.

Yet it always felt from the outside like the publicity that came with* him, the controversy, the touch of showbiz, didn’t sit well with the* people who run the club.

The embarrassing way they eventually got him out the door, the ultra-defensiveness of how they mumbled an excuse for an explanation, the uncertainty of attempts to replace him followed by the anti-climax of the new man’s appointment; it all speaks of a regime who don’t*WANT*to be talked about, don’t want to be headline news, to be sexy.

All of which makes you wonder whether a win like this, as ho-hum and humdrum as it’s possible to imagine, is exactly how Leeann Dempster and her colleagues upstairs want it to be — three points without the merest hint of drama.

The nearest thing to a shred of a hint of a talking point came on 16 minutes, when Florian Kamberi stretched for and may or may not have got a toe on to Daryl Horgan’s whipped left-wing cross to leave keeper Gary Woods flat-footed as it nestled low inside his left-hand post.

Was it the striker’s goal or the winger’s? Kamberi claimed it. I reckon he was at it.

But if in the end that’s as sparky as it gets, it’s hardly been scripted by Tarantino, has it?

Kamberi then nipped in front of the nervy Woods to head up and onto the bar, the keeper turning in time to grab the rebound, slip and almost carry the ball over the line, before* left-back Lennard Sowah’s* senseless barge on David Gray with the ball already gone handed Hibs a penalty that Marc McNulty tucked away to pretty much kill the contest.

From there, the home side forced a pile of corners without coming desperately close to a third, while the visitors made an attacking fist of it without ever looking like mounting a proper fightback.

And that was that. No 30- yard rockets, no sweeping moves you could set to music, no bust- ups, not the merest peep of Sunshine On Leith.

Had Lennon still been around, you’re guessing he’d have come in and caned the players for not getting three, four, five.

Then again, that desire of his for more, for better, for the spectacular, was maybe part of the problem.

Feels like too many around this place — be they in dressing room or boardroom — didn’t like being* challenged to improve themselves. That, rather than* Lennon’s voice becoming one of encouragement, he came to sound more like a* nagging wife.

None of this is a criticism of new boy Heckingbottom, who’s only just in the door and seems a perfectly nice, intelligent, positive-thinking coach.



No, it’s more a reflection on those who hired him, a bunch who had* the chance to embrace the swashbuckling and the edgy, but prefer the measured and the safe.

The Yorkshireman came away delighted to have won his first game in charge, to have seen so much hard graft, to have racked up a first league clean sheet in eight.

Asked what he thought he could achieve with this group of players, his answer was simply that he wants better than this.

There were no predictions, no* rallying cries, no promises to put bums back on empty seats.

In truth, opposite number Brian Rice — despite seeing his side slip into the bottom two — was by far the more refreshing to listen to.


He was all about being hell-bent on attacking their way out of trouble, about forgiving* mistakes as long as they come from trying to do things that make people smile.

If you were an Accies fan, you’d be excited and encouraged to hear his take on the task.

If you’re a*Hibee, though, well, maybe I’m wrong, but it must feel like the Scottish Cup win and the whole Lennon circus might as well not have happened.

Even the player who came up to the after-match press conference, Aussie midfielder Mark Milligan, appeared to be doing the same job with words as he does on the park — that is, being the one who protects those around him, who tries to give nothing away.

He said: “The table doesn’t lie.* We are where we are because that’s where we deserve to be at the moment.

“But I don’t think it’s too late to turn that around and that’s what we’re focusing on. We have to keep moving forward.

“It does hurt us as players, knowing we’re in that position. You could look around the dressing room knowing that, individually and as a unit, we had more to give.

“Now’s our shot. We’ve started well and we need to carry it on.

“You look at Flo Kamberi. He’s a great player, but I think his work ethic here was unbelievable."







Who is Bill Leckie? Why is he persisting with the anti hibs and pro Lennon propaganda still? Why is he claiming there were only 11k there on Saturday? Is he cut from the same cloth as that moron keith Jackson?

Jones28
18-02-2019, 08:42 AM
Check BILLYHIBS dead king thread.

Anything from the sun is best left alone.

Hermit Crab
18-02-2019, 08:46 AM
And why is he in the sun claiming there were only 11k there on Saturday? Why is he still firing up the anti hibs and pro Lennon propaganda machine? Another arse wipe of Keith Jackson standards I assume?


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MISSING X-FACTOR*There’s something missing at Hibs these days..and it’s not just 5,000 fans, says Bill Leckie

A ground that, just a few months ago was the most exciting and unpredictable in the land, suddenly feels mired in mediocrity

COMMENT

By Bill Leckie

18th February 2019,*7:44 am

Updated: 18th February 2019,*7:44 am

SOMETHING doesn’t quite add up at Easter Road these days.

And it’s not just the calculator they use to count the gates.

Because, along with about a third of the 16,000-odd the tannoy told us turned up for new manager Paul Heckingbottom’s first game in charge, they were missing an X-factor. A buzz. Their pizzazz.

A ground that, just a few months ago was the most exciting and unpredictable in the land, suddenly feels mired in mediocrity.


From genuinely believing they could be Best Of The Rest, they’re fretting over clambering into the top six by the split.

It’s a dip in* attitude and atmosphere brought into sharp* focus by the comparison between this season’s two home clashes with Accies.

Last time they came calling, on the* first Saturday in October, there* genuinely*WEREclose on 17,000 in the house, rising as one to a 6-0 romp peppered with strikes from all angles, lifting them just two points off early league leaders*Hearts.

That performance summed up all that was good about life under Neil Lennon.

Yet it always felt from the outside like the publicity that came with* him, the controversy, the touch of showbiz, didn’t sit well with the* people who run the club.

The embarrassing way they eventually got him out the door, the ultra-defensiveness of how they mumbled an excuse for an explanation, the uncertainty of attempts to replace him followed by the anti-climax of the new man’s appointment; it all speaks of a regime who don’t*WANT*to be talked about, don’t want to be headline news, to be sexy.

All of which makes you wonder whether a win like this, as ho-hum and humdrum as it’s possible to imagine, is exactly how Leeann Dempster and her colleagues upstairs want it to be — three points without the merest hint of drama.

The nearest thing to a shred of a hint of a talking point came on 16 minutes, when Florian Kamberi stretched for and may or may not have got a toe on to Daryl Horgan’s whipped left-wing cross to leave keeper Gary Woods flat-footed as it nestled low inside his left-hand post.

Was it the striker’s goal or the winger’s? Kamberi claimed it. I reckon he was at it.

But if in the end that’s as sparky as it gets, it’s hardly been scripted by Tarantino, has it?

Kamberi then nipped in front of the nervy Woods to head up and onto the bar, the keeper turning in time to grab the rebound, slip and almost carry the ball over the line, before* left-back Lennard Sowah’s* senseless barge on David Gray with the ball already gone handed Hibs a penalty that Marc McNulty tucked away to pretty much kill the contest.

From there, the home side forced a pile of corners without coming desperately close to a third, while the visitors made an attacking fist of it without ever looking like mounting a proper fightback.

And that was that. No 30- yard rockets, no sweeping moves you could set to music, no bust- ups, not the merest peep of Sunshine On Leith.

Had Lennon still been around, you’re guessing he’d have come in and caned the players for not getting three, four, five.

Then again, that desire of his for more, for better, for the spectacular, was maybe part of the problem.

Feels like too many around this place — be they in dressing room or boardroom — didn’t like being* challenged to improve themselves. That, rather than* Lennon’s voice becoming one of encouragement, he came to sound more like a* nagging wife.

None of this is a criticism of new boy Heckingbottom, who’s only just in the door and seems a perfectly nice, intelligent, positive-thinking coach.



No, it’s more a reflection on those who hired him, a bunch who had* the chance to embrace the swashbuckling and the edgy, but prefer the measured and the safe.

The Yorkshireman came away delighted to have won his first game in charge, to have seen so much hard graft, to have racked up a first league clean sheet in eight.

Asked what he thought he could achieve with this group of players, his answer was simply that he wants better than this.

There were no predictions, no* rallying cries, no promises to put bums back on empty seats.

In truth, opposite number Brian Rice — despite seeing his side slip into the bottom two — was by far the more refreshing to listen to.


He was all about being hell-bent on attacking their way out of trouble, about forgiving* mistakes as long as they come from trying to do things that make people smile.

If you were an Accies fan, you’d be excited and encouraged to hear his take on the task.

If you’re a*Hibee, though, well, maybe I’m wrong, but it must feel like the Scottish Cup win and the whole Lennon circus might as well not have happened.

Even the player who came up to the after-match press conference, Aussie midfielder Mark Milligan, appeared to be doing the same job with words as he does on the park — that is, being the one who protects those around him, who tries to give nothing away.

He said: “The table doesn’t lie.* We are where we are because that’s where we deserve to be at the moment.

“But I don’t think it’s too late to turn that around and that’s what we’re focusing on. We have to keep moving forward.

“It does hurt us as players, knowing we’re in that position. You could look around the dressing room knowing that, individually and as a unit, we had more to give.

“Now’s our shot. We’ve started well and we need to carry it on.

“You look at Flo Kamberi. He’s a great player, but I think his work ethic here was unbelievable.


He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

we are hibs
18-02-2019, 08:49 AM
He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

No hes not. I've sat amongst 11k crowds under fenlon there were far more there than that.

CapitalGreen
18-02-2019, 08:50 AM
No hes not. I've sat amongst 11k crowds under fenlon there were far more there than that.

Don’t argue with HC, he’s the self-appointed head of the Attendance Polis.

Blaster
18-02-2019, 08:52 AM
He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

There’s no way you could have got another 9000 in the stadium

Absolute nonsense

04Sauzee
18-02-2019, 08:53 AM
He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

He's wrong and so are you, there were loads more than 11k

Heisenberg
18-02-2019, 08:53 AM
He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

Nonesense. Crowd was no different to those we normally get for games against Hamilton and the likes. 16k looked about right.

Newhaven
18-02-2019, 08:57 AM
The guy writes for the sun everyone! Along with the daily record (remember there take on 2016) no one should buy the rag or click on their articles

Keith_M
18-02-2019, 09:00 AM
There are t1ts in the media and some t1ts in our own support that can't get over Lennon leaving.

Best ignored

wookie70
18-02-2019, 09:01 AM
There wasn't much more at the last Hamilton game from what I remember. The Lennon love in with the press seems to never stop. Leckie is drawing the line in the wrong place. What about the dismal draws with St Mirren and Dundee and the appalling Derby game. Does he not remember all the games under Lennon where the ball spent most of its time in the air as we launched it aimlessly forward to a striker who is never a target man. There were months where it was more Butcheresque than Nirvana.

He might be right that there wasn't much drama on Saturday but that was because we were playing a bottom of the league team and we are mid table, the position the previous manager left us in, and one we look to have a chance of recovering from since his departure. We put out a team with players in the correct positions and clearly had a plan in order to get a result. The team executed that very well and I think the last 10 minutes or so showed that the crowd appreciated that as the singing started and the feel good signs started to return. We can kick on from the mess Lennon left us in and get key players like Flo back to their best. The drama and excitement will return soon enough with a competent manager and a harmonious squad.

B.H.F.C
18-02-2019, 09:02 AM
Nonesense. Crowd was no different to those we normally get for games against Hamilton and the likes. 16k looked about right.

There wasn’t 16k in the ground, not a chance.

I still find it an odd article and one that can only be written with an agenda to talk Lennon up. All his mates in the media obviously haven’t seen many Hibs games in the last four months.

Hibernia&Alba
18-02-2019, 09:06 AM
There wasn’t 16k in the ground, not a chance.

I still find it an odd article and one that can only be written with an agenda to talk Lennon up. All his mates in the media obviously haven’t seen many Hibs games in the last four months.

That was my thought too. It can be hard to tell, but it didn't look like 16,000. Was that tickets sold rather than the number through the gate?

Hermit Crab
18-02-2019, 09:08 AM
There wasn’t 16k in the ground, not a chance.

I still find it an odd article and one that can only be written with an agenda to talk Lennon up. All his mates in the media obviously haven’t seen many Hibs games in the last four months.


No danger there was 16k, that would mean every seat would need to be occupied in all 3 home stands as the South holds just under 4,000 fans. There was about 100 Hamilton fans. Lucky if there was 200 home fans in the South as well.

16k tickets sold maybe, 16k in the ground no way.

green with envy
18-02-2019, 09:09 AM
He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

I'm now like many others wondering what your negative agenda is with Hibs. For someone that makes himself out to be some kind of uber fan, you don't half like having a pop in any other given chance.

Hermit Crab
18-02-2019, 09:12 AM
I'm now like many others wondering what your negative agenda is with Hibs. For someone that makes himself out to be some kind of uber fan, you don't half like having a pop in any other given chance.


Stevie Wonder could have seen there wasn't 16k at the game.

Ah the good old uber fan line, good one...:rolleyes:

Golden Bear
18-02-2019, 09:33 AM
No danger there was 16k, that would mean every seat would need to be occupied in all 3 home stands as the South holds just under 4,000 fans. There was about 100 Hamilton fans. Lucky if there was 200 home fans in the South as well.

16k tickets sold maybe, 16k in the ground no way.

Well I thought 16k was about right.

:na na:

heretoday
18-02-2019, 09:36 AM
Bill Leckie is a hack. Not worth bothering about.

SquashedFrogg
18-02-2019, 09:38 AM
I still find it strange that people are actually bothered about the actual attendance. Seems to be a recurring conversation.

It's really not a big deal if the club announce a figure that you don't agree with. It really isn't.

RIP
18-02-2019, 09:46 AM
Bill Leckie knows hee haw about what happened behind the scenes between club staff and Neil Lennon so in the absence of facts he will make lazy assumptions instead.

That lack of journalistic talent is why he has ended up at the Sun rather than a proper newspaper.

JimBHibees
18-02-2019, 09:50 AM
Nonesense. Crowd was no different to those we normally get for games against Hamilton and the likes. 16k looked about right.

Agree certainly nowhere near 11k.

madhatter
18-02-2019, 09:54 AM
He grew up a St Midden fan did he not? lucky if he ever saw 5000 at a game.

The Modfather
18-02-2019, 09:56 AM
No danger there was 16k, that would mean every seat would need to be occupied in all 3 home stands as the South holds just under 4,000 fans. There was about 100 Hamilton fans. Lucky if there was 200 home fans in the South as well.

16k tickets sold maybe, 16k in the ground no way.

Where are the other 9,000 fitting in? As others have mentioned you seem to revel in any negativity you can find.

Hibernia&Alba
18-02-2019, 09:59 AM
Where are the other 9,000 fitting in? As others have mentioned you seem to revel in any negativity you can find.

HC might be a moaning auld git, but he goes to every match, home and away, so fair play to him.

Jones28
18-02-2019, 09:59 AM
That was my thought too. It can be hard to tell, but it didn't look like 16,000. Was that tickets sold rather than the number through the gate?

Yes, we've been reporting our attendances like this for some time now.

Real Emerald
18-02-2019, 09:59 AM
He’s right about the buzz in the stadium and the lack of swashbuckling football but that happened way before Lennon left. The crowd was no bigger last time Hamilton were here either. I did think the game became a bore fest but I think getting 3 points and over the line with a clean sheet was the start any new manager would like to build on. The stadium has lacked atmosphere since the singing section were moved TBH.

Hibernia&Alba
18-02-2019, 10:02 AM
[/B]

Yes, we've been reporting our attendances like this for some time now.

Yeah, I think many clubs do.

The Modfather
18-02-2019, 10:02 AM
HC might be a moaning auld git, but he goes to every match, home and away, so fair play to him.

Not sure how many games someone attends has any bearing on the quality of their posts.

hibsbollah
18-02-2019, 10:05 AM
So the Leckie argument seems to be Leeann actually wants us to be midtable mediocrity? Yet Leckie doesn't give a reason why this would be in her interests?

Absolute moon howling stuff.

Hibernia&Alba
18-02-2019, 10:05 AM
Not sure how many games someone attends has any bearing on the quality of their posts.

No, I know, but he's often accused of being anti-Hibs, or even a Jambo, when he actually attends every game. It takes all sorts.

My_Wife_Camille
18-02-2019, 10:07 AM
Always find it funny that when Bill Leckie, The Sun and the other 'weegie rags' are gushing praise over us then it's always 'a great wee read' but as soon as it's something we don't want to hear then they're trash with an agenda :cb

Greenbeard
18-02-2019, 10:09 AM
:yawn:

Hibernia&Alba
18-02-2019, 10:10 AM
Always find it funny that when Bill Leckie, The Sun and the other 'weegie rags' are gushing praise over us then it's always 'a great wee read' but as soon as it's something we don't want to hear then they're trash with an agenda :cb

That's the EEN, Scotland's best selling Hearts fanzine :greengrin

hibeerealist
18-02-2019, 10:14 AM
R
There are t1ts in the media and some t1ts in our own support that can't get over Lennon leaving.

Best ignored

Bill Leckie articles are usually good reading, did you read his article post the 2016 SC win?

He lavished praise on our team and our fans in a quite emotional story and that was before NL was anywhere near HFC.

Some of the stuff in this recent story is “dressed up” for effect but I have to say that I found most of it fairly hit the nail.

Prof. Shaggy
18-02-2019, 10:19 AM
Bill Leckie's the guy who phoned me up in about 1988 looking for a quote about the SRU's agreement to support the then-racist South Africa Rugby centenary celebrations. The article on the Herald's front page, got my name completely wrong, made up who I was and missed out the important bits of what I said...

Chuck Rhoades
18-02-2019, 10:26 AM
No danger there was 16k, that would mean every seat would need to be occupied in all 3 home stands as the South holds just under 4,000 fans. There was about 100 Hamilton fans. Lucky if there was 200 home fans in the South as well.

16k tickets sold maybe, 16k in the ground no way.

East/West both looked 80%+ occupied. FF more than half full. 5-600 in South.

It wasn’t 16k through the turnstiles, but neither was it near 11k, as you know.

Hibs should start banning the rags/journalists who are going out their way to stick the boot in at Hibs. **** the lot of them.

Smartie
18-02-2019, 10:29 AM
I quite like Bill Leckie as a journalist.

That article is a steaming turd although if you fork through it there are a couple of lumps of sweetcorn in there.

He has a point about the crowds. I thought the crowd a few weeks ago against Aberdeen was terrible and that it was probably only the decent Aberdeen support that took it into 5 figures. Like HC I've been going along to Hibs games for a number of years and looking out from the East you can see spaces everywhere. There are seats all around me that haven't been used much (on the halfway line, near the back) so I can't imagine the East is anywhere near full either.

What he fails to grasp is that this is largely Lennon's fault rather than the fault of his departure. If Lennon had still been there on Saturday we'd probably have gone with 5 at the back and a defensive midfielder, at least one player woefully out of position, a midfield unit that would have been dominated (instead of dominate which they did for a change) and our main striker would have been up front on his own, a disconsolate figure, and we'd have drawn or lost by the odd goal.

Lennon was good value for journalists. He was open and engaging, good for a story and gave them lots of material to work with. They will miss him a lot more than we will. He did well to get us promoted, last season was immense but this season left so, so much to be desired that it is almost impossible for anyone to inspire us with what has been left behind.

Stubbs created the feel good factor that has been pierced. As it happens we've got a highly-rated coach who put a team out to put on a performance that I'd say 95% of us were satisfied with at the weekend. Leckie might not have got his quote about the Celtic game on Sunday from Heckingbottom like he would have from Lennon, it doesn't mean his first day at the office wasn't a successful one.

The board's next big battle is going to be to convince us to continue to part with cash to support the new man. Leckie might actually have a point with some of his criticisms of them. Can they convince us that we will be ready for the start of a season for a change? Will we have options and cover up front? Will we have a midfield that can do more against the better teams in our league? How do we go about gradually rebuilding an ageing defence? Is it going to be a pile of loans and 30 somethings or are we going to go back to what made Stubbs successful?



The whole Lennon situation is funny. For someone who is hated by so many, he doesn't half have his fans too. I liked him enough as manager but I think everyone, Leckie included, would do well to "move on". And if he, or any other outsider looking in thinks that they are going to find anything at Easter Road other than small (but curious) crowds as a dull season of transition fizzles out then they can think again.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 10:33 AM
R

Bill Leckie articles are usually good reading, did you read his article post the 2016 SC win?

He lavished praise on our team and our fans in a quite emotional story and that was before NL was anywhere near HFC.

Some of the stuff in this recent story is “dressed up” for effect but I have to say that I found most of it fairly hit the nail.

The stuff implying that Hibs somehow got rid of Lennon because he was too ambitious is spiteful nonsense.

He's also slagging Hibs' performance whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that we were 8th when Lennon was suspended and we'd only managed to win twice since the 6-0 game he waxes lyrical about.

James70
18-02-2019, 10:34 AM
Let's face it, Lennon had lost the plot long before the parting of the ways.It was him who led us down the league to 8th position and many a manager would have been dismissed for that record alone. On top of his game Lennon was a great manager for us but sadly something went wrong along the way and nothing to do with player budgets either.

The 90+2
18-02-2019, 10:36 AM
Leckie is usually alright as well.

I would say there was about 13k there on Saturday.

The 90+2
18-02-2019, 10:38 AM
Let's face it, Lennon had lost the plot long before the parting of the ways.It was him who led us down the league to 8th position and many a manager would have been dismissed for that record alone. On top of his game Lennon was a great manager for us but sadly something went wrong along the way and nothing to do with player budgets either.


:agree: either way though it's time to move on FFS.

Rocky
18-02-2019, 10:45 AM
Seems like Leckie might be a Hibby as that article wouldn't look out of place as a post on here...

Peevemor
18-02-2019, 10:55 AM
The local hacks had their noses put out of joint by the information vacuum between NL's suspension and PH's appointment.

In Neil Lennon, they've also lost a contact that they know well and who was always good for easy column inches.

They don't know Paul Heckingbottom so, even though he appears to be media friendly, they'll have to work harder to produce soemthing vaguely of interest which isn't already on the clubs official channels.

The 90+2
18-02-2019, 10:58 AM
Seems like Leckie might be a Hibby as that article wouldn't look out of place as a post on here...

Where about? What's the deal with posters constantly ripping into others :confused:

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 11:01 AM
The local hacks had their noses put out of joint by the information vacuum between NL's suspension and PH's appointment.

In Neil Lennon, they've also lost a contact that they know well and who was always good for easy column inches.

They don't know Paul Heckingbottom so, even though he appears to be media friendly, they'll have to work harder to produce soemthing vaguely of interest which isn't already on the clubs official channels.

Plus, backing Lennon goes down well with ra Sellick fans who buy that rag.

Real Emerald
18-02-2019, 11:05 AM
The local hacks had their noses put out of joint by the information vacuum between NL's suspension and PH's appointment.

In Neil Lennon, they've also lost a contact that they know well and who was always good for easy column inches.

They don't know Paul Heckingbottom so, even though he appears to be media friendly, they'll have to work harder to produce soemthing vaguely of interest which isn't already on the clubs official channels.

Maybe the club and NL would have been better saying something about what happened rather than leaving a void that's inevitably going to be filled with speculation and also leave our club and board open to this sort of attack. Even if they'd said there had been a fall out and in the heat of the moment things were said that maybe shouldn't have and it was thought it better for a split. To say nothing happened and no one was at fault and then the manager leaving for no given reason is only asking for this sort of thing. IMO

Smartie
18-02-2019, 11:08 AM
Maybe the club and NL would have been better saying something about what happened rather than leaving a void that's inevitably going to be filled with speculation and also leave our club and board open to this sort of attack. Even if they'd said there had been a fall out and in the heat of the moment things were said that maybe shouldn't have and it was thought it better for a split. To say nothing happened and no one was at fault and then the manager leaving for no given reason is only asking for this sort of thing. IMO

I don't see why Hibs should give them the satisfaction.

And it would be the end of it - just the start. What was said? By who? To whom? And is it true that the players.....? And? And? And?

It's over, the media need to deal with it and try to make news out of a quietly competent home victory under a highly rated new manager.

SMAXXA
18-02-2019, 11:10 AM
Bill Leckie's the guy who phoned me up in about 1988 looking for a quote about the SRU's agreement to support the then-racist South Africa Rugby centenary celebrations. The article on the Herald's front page, got my name completely wrong, made up who I was and missed out the important bits of what I said...

Maybe he phoned someone else after you and went with their quote 😉

Speedway
18-02-2019, 11:10 AM
There was some lovely football played yesterday.

The press really don’t like not being told what’s going on do they?

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 11:14 AM
Where about? What's the deal with posters constantly ripping into others :confused:

It was clearly a tongue in cheek remark, but he didn't "rip in" to anyone.

Your post is actually more pointed than his.

There have been loads of posts wrongly saying that the board lacks ambition and repeating the nonsense that it was Lennon's desire for success which really was behind his departure.

There have been loads of folk saying that they were embarrassed by the way Hibs got rid of Lennon and there have been loads of folk saying that the game on Saturday was dull.

It's a message board. When people express opinions they have to expect that some people may disagree and criticise.

It's not "ripping in". It's discussion.

matty_f
18-02-2019, 11:16 AM
So the Leckie argument seems to be Leeann actually wants us to be midtable mediocrity? Yet Leckie doesn't give a reason why this would be in her interests?

Absolute moon howling stuff.

It's bonkers.

LD - Hang on, we're doing *too* well, I don't like it - crowds are up, income is up, profit is up, we're doing better than we've done in Europe for years... I know, I'll hijack it.
**phones Lennon**

NL - Hello?

LD - Hi Neil, it's Leeann here. Yes, Dempster. We need to talk, we're being too ambitious and we need to scale it back a bit please. Mid-table mediocrity is what we really want.

NL - Eh?

LD - Yeah, that's why we didn't keep McGinn. Honestly.

NL - Was it not just that it was time for him to go and Villa was a good move for him and us?

LD - that's the story we want to peddle to the masses, but in reality we don't want to do well. At least not that well. Just mediocre.

NL - well you're not matching my ambition. I'm a little upset about that.

LD - to be honest Neil, on the face of it the team's in 8th and we've given you plenty of money to work with so you're not really matching my ambition.

NL - but..

LD - Haha! just kidding, you're totally matching our ambition because mind I just told you that I want mediocrity. It's our new buzz word.

NL - have you been drinking?

LD - No. Must go now anyway, Rod's got these phone bills itemised and it'll come out of my pay if I'm on too long.

NL - Ok, see you later then. I'm off and taking Parker with me.

LD - you're not resigning are you?

NL - No, are you sacking me?

LD - No.

NL - But I am going, right?

LD - remember - ambition. Ssshhhh. Mum's the word.


**hangs up**

Radium
18-02-2019, 11:18 AM
Thanks to the op for putting the text up - less clicks on their site the better.

Felt like the story was written before the match - with details of the match added in.

The revisionism about this season is remarkable. Injuries, international breaks and limited success in the summer window contributed to a sharp fall off in form after the 6-0 but Lennon/ Parker took it upon themselves to rip into players and put out baffling line-ups. All of which are ignored.

Lennon will be remembered for the football in the second half of last season and promotion. Leckie’s article would have you believe that he had us on course for a title whereas he left after a toothless performance at Fir Park.

Now onwards with the already written off PHeckingbottom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Keyser Sauzee
18-02-2019, 11:23 AM
It's bonkers.

LD - Hang on, we're doing *too* well, I don't like it - crowds are up, income is up, profit is up, we're doing better than we've done in Europe for years... I know, I'll hijack it.
**phones Lennon**

NL - Hello?

LD - Hi Neil, it's Leeann here. Yes, Dempster. We need to talk, we're being too ambitious and we need to scale it back a bit please. Mid-table mediocrity is what we really want.

NL - Eh?

LD - Yeah, that's why we didn't keep McGinn. Honestly.

NL - Was it not just that it was time for him to go and Villa was a good move for him and us?

LD - that's the story we want to peddle to the masses, but in reality we don't want to do well. At least not that well. Just mediocre.

NL - well you're not matching my ambition. I'm a little upset about that.

LD - to be honest Neil, on the face of it the team's in 8th and we've given you plenty of money to work with so you're not really matching my ambition.

NL - but..

LD - Haha! just kidding, you're totally matching our ambition because mind I just told you that I want mediocrity. It's our new buzz word.

NL - have you been drinking?

LD - No. Must go now anyway, Rod's got these phone bills itemised and it'll come out of my pay if I'm on too long.

NL - Ok, see you later then. I'm off and taking Parker with me.

LD - you're not resigning are you?

NL - No, are you sacking me?

LD - No.

NL - But I am going, right?

LD - remember - ambition. Ssshhhh. Mum's the word.


**hangs up**

😂😂😂 that’s up there with the best posts I’ve read on here.

Wilson
18-02-2019, 11:23 AM
Maybe the club and NL would have been better saying something about what happened rather than leaving a void that's inevitably going to be filled with speculation and also leave our club and board open to this sort of attack. Even if they'd said there had been a fall out and in the heat of the moment things were said that maybe shouldn't have and it was thought it better for a split. To say nothing happened and no one was at fault and then the manager leaving for no given reason is only asking for this sort of thing. IMO

Thankfully, this sort of thing is poorly thought out, poorly researched, speculative, claptrap.

There may once have been a buzz surrounding Bill Leckie's articles (anything is possible) but now they are transparent. Wordy but empty of any real news.

Any real hibby that doesn't roll their eyes at the inaccuracy of Leckie's portrayal of life under Lennon needs a word.

Was there a buzz during the slow start last season? Was there one in the last few months of Lennon's tenure? Can we seriously write off the new regime as lacking the ability to bring back the excitement after half a week?

Come on Bill. Must try harder.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 11:25 AM
Thankfully, this sort of thing is poorly thought out, poorly researched, speculative, claptrap.

There may once have been a buzz surrounding Bill Leckie's articles (anything is possible) but now they are transparent. Wordy but empty of any real news.

Any real hibby that doesn't roll their eyes at the inaccuracy of Leckie's portrayal of life under Lennon needs a word.

Was there a buzz during the slow start last season? Was there one in the last few months of Lennon's tenure? Can we seriously write the new regime as lacking the ability to bring back the excitement after half a week?

Come on Bill. Must try harder.

I wonder what he wrote about the buzz when The Rangers beat Hamilton 1-0 at Ibrox in December.

Hiber-nation
18-02-2019, 11:27 AM
I quite like Bill Leckie as a journalist.

That article is a steaming turd although if you fork through it there are a couple of lumps of sweetcorn in there.

He has a point about the crowds. I thought the crowd a few weeks ago against Aberdeen was terrible and that it was probably only the decent Aberdeen support that took it into 5 figures. Like HC I've been going along to Hibs games for a number of years and looking out from the East you can see spaces everywhere. There are seats all around me that haven't been used much (on the halfway line, near the back) so I can't imagine the East is anywhere near full either.

What he fails to grasp is that this is largely Lennon's fault rather than the fault of his departure. If Lennon had still been there on Saturday we'd probably have gone with 5 at the back and a defensive midfielder, at least one player woefully out of position, a midfield unit that would have been dominated (instead of dominate which they did for a change) and our main striker would have been up front on his own, a disconsolate figure, and we'd have drawn or lost by the odd goal.

Lennon was good value for journalists. He was open and engaging, good for a story and gave them lots of material to work with. They will miss him a lot more than we will. He did well to get us promoted, last season was immense but this season left so, so much to be desired that it is almost impossible for anyone to inspire us with what has been left behind.

Stubbs created the feel good factor that has been pierced. As it happens we've got a highly-rated coach who put a team out to put on a performance that I'd say 95% of us were satisfied with at the weekend. Leckie might not have got his quote about the Celtic game on Sunday from Heckingbottom like he would have from Lennon, it doesn't mean his first day at the office wasn't a successful one.

The board's next big battle is going to be to convince us to continue to part with cash to support the new man. Leckie might actually have a point with some of his criticisms of them. Can they convince us that we will be ready for the start of a season for a change? Will we have options and cover up front? Will we have a midfield that can do more against the better teams in our league? How do we go about gradually rebuilding an ageing defence? Is it going to be a pile of loans and 30 somethings or are we going to go back to what made Stubbs successful?



The whole Lennon situation is funny. For someone who is hated by so many, he doesn't half have his fans too. I liked him enough as manager but I think everyone, Leckie included, would do well to "move on". And if he, or any other outsider looking in thinks that they are going to find anything at Easter Road other than small (but curious) crowds as a dull season of transition fizzles out then they can think again.

Best post I've seen on here for a while.

Wilson
18-02-2019, 11:28 AM
It's bonkers.

LD - Hang on, we're doing *too* well, I don't like it - crowds are up, income is up, profit is up, we're doing better than we've done in Europe for years... I know, I'll hijack it.
**phones Lennon**

NL - Hello?

LD - Hi Neil, it's Leeann here. Yes, Dempster. We need to talk, we're being too ambitious and we need to scale it back a bit please. Mid-table mediocrity is what we really want.

NL - Eh?

LD - Yeah, that's why we didn't keep McGinn. Honestly.

NL - Was it not just that it was time for him to go and Villa was a good move for him and us?

LD - that's the story we want to peddle to the masses, but in reality we don't want to do well. At least not that well. Just mediocre.

NL - well you're not matching my ambition. I'm a little upset about that.

LD - to be honest Neil, on the face of it the team's in 8th and we've given you plenty of money to work with so you're not really matching my ambition.

NL - but..

LD - Haha! just kidding, you're totally matching our ambition because mind I just told you that I want mediocrity. It's our new buzz word.

NL - have you been drinking?

LD - No. Must go now anyway, Rod's got these phone bills itemised and it'll come out of my pay if I'm on too long.

NL - Ok, see you later then. I'm off and taking Parker with me.

LD - you're not resigning are you?

NL - No, are you sacking me?

LD - No.

NL - But I am going, right?

LD - remember - ambition. Ssshhhh. Mum's the word.


**hangs up**


I hope you haven't just destroyed the confidentiality clause.

Real Emerald
18-02-2019, 11:30 AM
Thankfully, this sort of thing is poorly thought out, poorly researched, speculative, claptrap.

There may once have been a buzz surrounding Bill Leckie's articles (anything is possible) but now they are transparent. Wordy but empty of any real news.

Any real hibby that doesn't roll their eyes at the inaccuracy of Leckie's portrayal of life under Lennon needs a word.

Was there a buzz during the slow start last season? Was there one in the last few months of Lennon's tenure? Can we seriously write off the new regime as lacking the ability to bring back the excitement after half a week?

Come on Bill. Must try harder.

I agree with this have said so earlier in the thread. the point I'm getting at is we're getting attacked in the press and from our own fans because no explanation was given and it's inevitable people will speculate and make things up. Lennon's time was up IMO and the downturn could definitely be laid, at least in a big part at his door.

green with envy
18-02-2019, 11:31 AM
HC might be a moaning auld git, but he goes to every match, home and away, so fair play to him.

That doesn't give him the right to have a pop or just about give his negativity thoughts on nearly every post.

hibsbollah
18-02-2019, 11:31 AM
It's bonkers.

LD - Hang on, we're doing *too* well, I don't like it - crowds are up, income is up, profit is up, we're doing better than we've done in Europe for years... I know, I'll hijack it.
**phones Lennon**

NL - Hello?

LD - Hi Neil, it's Leeann here. Yes, Dempster. We need to talk, we're being too ambitious and we need to scale it back a bit please. Mid-table mediocrity is what we really want.

NL - Eh?

LD - Yeah, that's why we didn't keep McGinn. Honestly.

NL - Was it not just that it was time for him to go and Villa was a good move for him and us?

LD - that's the story we want to peddle to the masses, but in reality we don't want to do well. At least not that well. Just mediocre.

NL - well you're not matching my ambition. I'm a little upset about that.

LD - to be honest Neil, on the face of it the team's in 8th and we've given you plenty of money to work with so you're not really matching my ambition.

NL - but..

LD - Haha! just kidding, you're totally matching our ambition because mind I just told you that I want mediocrity. It's our new buzz word.

NL - have you been drinking?

LD - No. Must go now anyway, Rod's got these phone bills itemised and it'll come out of my pay if I'm on too long.

NL - Ok, see you later then. I'm off and taking Parker with me.

LD - you're not resigning are you?

NL - No, are you sacking me?

LD - No.

NL - But I am going, right?

LD - remember - ambition. Ssshhhh. Mum's the word.


**hangs up**

:faf::top marks

Swedish hibee
18-02-2019, 11:32 AM
Love to see what he writes when we stuff Celtic in the cup!

Doh Rae Me
18-02-2019, 11:40 AM
What I've read of Leckie I don't mind and usually I agree with him. I don't think there is bias in his reporting and therefore he usually delivers a decent article.
There's nothing in that piece that makes me change my mind.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 11:48 AM
What I've read of Leckie I don't mind and usually I agree with him. I don't think there is bias in his reporting and therefore he usually delivers a decent article.
There's nothing in that piece that makes me change my mind.

Do you think that when Leeann Dempster says that they want Hibs to be challenging at the top end of the table, playing in Europe, and getting to cup finals, that she's misleading us because she really wants mid table mediocrity?

tamig
18-02-2019, 11:52 AM
There wasn’t 16k in the ground, not a chance.

I still find it an odd article and one that can only be written with an agenda to talk Lennon up. All his mates in the media obviously haven’t seen many Hibs games in the last four months.

It was a bit strange. Bill Leckie is normally pretty complimentary but that article could have been penned by some of the posters on here who’ve repeatedly questioned the Board following NLs departure.

green day
18-02-2019, 11:55 AM
That article marks Leckie out as what he is - an apologist for the two sectarian glasgow clubs who cant hide his delight at sticking the boot in elsewhere.

He cant get past the fact that Hibs didnt publicise what happened with Lennon and is doing the usual bully boy journo tactic of "making it up as he goes along" in the hope that someone reacts. He is looking for a response, because he hates the fact that we dont just give him what he wants.

Its laughable.

Plus, lets remember, he works for the Sun - a paper that no football fan should read or click thru after their behaviour post Hillsborough.

The stuff put out by blogs or independent news sources these days is far superior to the garbage the likes of him and Keith Jackson produce.

I look forward to their articles castigating Celtic for the pitch invasion yesterday...........................

green with envy
18-02-2019, 11:56 AM
What I've read of Leckie I don't mind and usually I agree with him. I don't think there is bias in his reporting and therefore he usually delivers a decent article.
There's nothing in that piece that makes me change my mind.

"Was it the striker’s goal or the winger’s? Kamberi claimed it. I reckon he was at it"

What an earth does Leckie mean by saying he thought Kamberi was at it. It seems like he's calling him a liar.

Horrible article from a **** of the earth rag.

Tornadoes70
18-02-2019, 12:05 PM
What I've read of Leckie I don't mind and usually I agree with him. I don't think there is bias in his reporting and therefore he usually delivers a decent article.
There's nothing in that piece that makes me change my mind.

Its clearly a long winded rant aimed at noising up our club and supporters.

I for one am very happy for our club to be stabilised and improvement made behind the scenes quietly and effectively absent of the drama being ratcheted up by those with other agendas.

Delighted to win 2-0 against Hamilton at home. Job done with all three points in the bag.

The icing on the cake was the yams being beaten especially given the last minute howler from their keeper :na na:

Onwards and Upwards.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

Ringothedog
18-02-2019, 12:10 PM
He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

Garbage

hibsbollah
18-02-2019, 12:10 PM
Do you think that when Leeann Dempster says that they want Hibs to be challenging at the top end of the table, playing in Europe, and getting to cup finals, that she's misleading us because she really wants mid table mediocrity?

I demand mediocrity. It's the only thing that supports the Ponzi scheme. Where's my ritalin nurse.

Kato
18-02-2019, 12:13 PM
No danger there was 16k, that would mean every seat would need to be occupied in all 3 home stands as the South holds just under 4,000 fans. There was about 100 Hamilton fans. Lucky if there was 200 home fans in the South as well.

16k tickets sold maybe, 16k in the ground no way.

So was there, as you said, less than 11,000 at the game?

The 90+2
18-02-2019, 12:16 PM
It was clearly a tongue in cheek remark, but he didn't "rip in" to anyone.

Your post is actually more pointed than his.

There have been loads of posts wrongly saying that the board lacks ambition and repeating the nonsense that it was Lennon's desire for success which really was behind his departure.

There have been loads of folk saying that they were embarrassed by the way Hibs got rid of Lennon and there have been loads of folk saying that the game on Saturday was dull.

It's a message board. When people express opinions they have to expect that some people may disagree and criticise.

It's not "ripping in". It's discussion.

Sorry, I didn't notice the "tongue in cheek" patter.

Diclonius
18-02-2019, 12:17 PM
Heckingbottom bad, Kamberi bad, Hibs fans want Lennon back because I said so!

Pretty much the article.

silverhibee
18-02-2019, 12:17 PM
The guy writes for the sun everyone! Along with the daily record (remember there take on 2016) no one should buy the rag or click on their articles

Kenny Millar.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 12:24 PM
Sorry, I didn't notice the "tongue in cheek" patter.

I thought the part where he said that Bill Leckie might be a Hibby was a bit of a giveaway, but obviously not.

You must agree, however, that a lot of what Leckie said has appeared on this forum in one form or another so even though the poster wasn't being entirely serious, there was an element of truth in his remark.

Kato
18-02-2019, 12:26 PM
Lennon was good value for journalists.

Therein lies the rub. Journos are willing to create fake news in ignoring how turgid some of Hibs games have been this season as their ability to get cheap copy is way more important than facts.

Bobby's Cinema
18-02-2019, 12:31 PM
What a crock of *****. High school stuff, easy and lazy statements throughout.

Has all the credentials to make him a strong candidate for the next Rangers Statement writer.

Captain Trips
18-02-2019, 12:37 PM
He has no more valid a point than anyone else but he has a large microphone and I have a tin cup on a string. These are his opinions and they are out there pure and simply because of his position and nothing else. The only people this would concern is hibs fans nobody else is arsed and i do not think any hibs fans are actually that bothered what he thinks. If he had a ST at hibs then yes but i do not believe he does.

The only thing the paper has a use for is wrapping up chips.

silverhibee
18-02-2019, 12:44 PM
No danger there was 16k, that would mean every seat would need to be occupied in all 3 home stands as the South holds just under 4,000 fans. There was about 100 Hamilton fans. Lucky if there was 200 home fans in the South as well.

16k tickets sold maybe, 16k in the ground no way.

Does it matter if there was a 11k 16k or 1k, clubs have been doing this for ages, counting tickets sold rather than bums through the turnstiles, why is Leckie pulling Hibs up for it, I normally don't mind Leckies stuff but this is a pile of s***e from him, it's as if these reporters have forgot how nasty a person Lennon has been in his career, assaulting team mates as a player and wanting to take on the world as a manager, but yeah it's all Hibs fault and and we are soft as s**t, poor stuff from BL.

CockneyRebel
18-02-2019, 12:55 PM
What I've read of Leckie I don't mind and usually I agree with him. I don't think there is bias in his reporting and therefore he usually delivers a decent article.
There's nothing in that piece that makes me change my mind.

Leckie has been a fairly consistent champion of the smaller clubs (he is a Buddie) over the years and written some clever, insightful articles. However, as the relevance of the newspaper has shrunk due to the internet, he like many others has had to revert to the "gutter press" lurid headlines and "sensational revelations" in order get anything published."
I went right off him when, after years of intelligent journalism, he wrote an article condemning the "arrogant English FA officials who had the affrontary to provisionally book hotels, flights and training facilities right through to the end of a WC tournament as if they expected to go all the way to the final. How he got this printed I really don't know as all the countries involved (including Scotland) have done and still do the very same thing. It is called forward planning and as a sports writer he would surely have known this but was just looking for a quick win with the ABE brigade. So, for me, he left his credibilty and his integrity behind when he put his name to that crock.

Like all the other journos I think he has the humpf because he can't get any inside info on Lennongate.

CockneyRebel
18-02-2019, 12:58 PM
He has no more valid a point than anyone else but he has a large microphone and I have a tin cup on a string. These are his opinions and they are out there pure and simply because of his position and nothing else. The only people this would concern is hibs fans nobody else is arsed and i do not think any hibs fans are actually that bothered what he thinks. If he had a ST at hibs then yes but i do not believe he does.

The only thing the paper has a use for is wrapping up chips.

Or wiping your a**e

The 90+2
18-02-2019, 01:00 PM
I thought the part where he said that Bill Leckie might be a Hibby was a bit of a giveaway, but obviously not.

You must agree, however, that a lot of what Leckie said has appeared on this forum in one form or another so even though the poster wasn't being entirely serious, there was an element of truth in his remark.

I thought that was a sarcastic dig at moaners.

I do agree with the other part :agree:

stoneyburn hibs
18-02-2019, 01:03 PM
What I've read of Leckie I don't mind and usually I agree with him. I don't think there is bias in his reporting and therefore he usually delivers a decent article.
There's nothing in that piece that makes me change my mind.

I'm with you on Leckie, he's written some decent stuff about us in the past. However that article is utter tripe, just another journo making things up and giving hibs a press kicking.
The press are pissed off that they didn't get all the facts on Lennongate.

Jim44
18-02-2019, 01:06 PM
Why would any club announce a bigger attendance than was actually there? They would have to pay more VAT and Income Tax.

CropleyWasGod
18-02-2019, 01:07 PM
Why would any club announce a bigger attendance than was actually there? They would have to pay more VAT and Income Tax.

They wouldn't.

They pay VAT on actual income.

green day
18-02-2019, 01:08 PM
Does it matter if there was a 11k 16k or 1k, clubs have been doing this for ages, counting tickets sold rather than bums through the turnstiles, why is Leckie pulling Hibs up for it, I normally don't mind Leckies stuff but this is a pile of s***e from him, it's as if these reporters have forgot how nasty a person Lennon has been in his career, assaulting team mates as a player and wanting to take on the world as a manager, but yeah it's all Hibs fault and and we are soft as s**t, poor stuff from BL.

Agreed - I kinda wouldnt mind him having a pop at the club if he also mentioned that some of the issues were probably rightly laid at the door of the previous manager.

An imbalanced article that almost every Hibby would disagree with - however, as I said earlier he isnt writing this with us in mind. His audience and readership is 90% Sevco/Celtc.

Smartie
18-02-2019, 01:09 PM
I'm with you on Leckie, he's written some decent stuff about us in the past. However that article is utter tripe, just another journo making things up and giving hibs a press kicking.
The press are pissed off that they didn't get all the facts on Lennongate.

We've had good players have bad games for us in the past.

Leckie's ok and tends to be balanced about us, but that article really is a load of rubbish. That's not from a Hibs supporter being unable to take a few home truths, it is an honest appraisal of an article that totally misses the point.

It can probably be put down to an experienced journalist knowing his audience, and his audience is not the Hibs support. It will be to cozy up to the Celtic support who have always been very fond of Lennon and will be happy to buy this rubbish about "one of their own" being mistreated.

Iggy Pope
18-02-2019, 01:09 PM
I'm now like many others wondering what your negative agenda is with Hibs. For someone that makes himself out to be some kind of uber fan, you don't half like having a pop in any other given chance.

He needs to get out for his hole.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 01:10 PM
Why would any club announce a bigger attendance than was actually there? They would have to pay more VAT and Income Tax.

Beat me to it.

Smartie
18-02-2019, 01:12 PM
Or wiping your a**e

I still bear the scars from having to unblock a toilet in a Dundee student flat during the "1997 Bog Roll stand-off" and would really like to make the point that newspaper shouldn't be used for arsewiping for any length of time either.

houstonhibbee
18-02-2019, 01:22 PM
So was there, as you said, less than 11,000 at the game?
Watching on hibs tv it looked like east was about 90% full and north about the same which is more than usual. Coukdntvseecwest butvassuming abount he same 90% of 16k is about 14.5k plus around 350 in the south. So maybe 15k was closer to actual attendance

proud_and_green
18-02-2019, 01:24 PM
The only way any of this continued speculation is going to stop is that we continue the positive results of the last few weeks since Neil went. The signs are positive and let's hope we can do it. Hecky seems like a very good pick and for me there is a noticeable improvement in confidence, work rate and application together with the appearance of a plan on the park.
I watched the warm up and liked the way that it seemed to be more than a simple warm up, Robbie Stockdale was doing coaching as well and from what I saw the players liked his style.
Oh and one for Bill Leckie I don't care if Flo is at it, Hibs got a goal and there was a clear desire to win; something that I think has been missing for a while!

Doh Rae Me
18-02-2019, 01:25 PM
Sorry but I've slowly re-read it and I still don't disagree with anything in it.
Regarding Leeann I have a big question mark over my head, as she's been debatably Hibs best signing in years, but the whole Lennon saga doesn't sit right with me.
I actually thought Horgan scored a wonder goal when I seen it but won't call Flo a liar if he says he touched the ball.
Heckingbottom, extremely early days, but doesn't inspire me like Lennon.

houstonhibbee
18-02-2019, 01:41 PM
Why would any club announce a bigger attendance than was actually there? They would have to pay more VAT and Income Tax.
Are you serious? They pay tax on season tickets sold for the season plus any tickets sold for individual games. Who turns up is irrelevant to paying tax

houstonhibbee
18-02-2019, 01:46 PM
Sorry but I've slowly re-read it and I still don't disagree with anything in it.
Regarding Leeann I have a big question mark over my head, as she's been debatably Hibs best signing in years, but the whole Lennon saga doesn't sit right with me.
I actually thought Horgan scored a wonder goal when I seen it but won't call Flo a liar if he says he touched the ball.
Heckingbottom, extremely early days, but doesn't inspire me like Lennon.
It’s rather hysterical than a balanced view though and on the attendance thing quite incorrect.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 01:47 PM
Heckingbottom, extremely early days, but doesn't inspire me like Lennon.

Whether he indpires you or not, I'm sure you agree, is irrelevant.

Hopefully he'll inspire the players more than Lennon was.

Wilson
18-02-2019, 01:48 PM
Sorry but I've slowly re-read it and I still don't disagree with anything in it.
Regarding Leeann I have a big question mark over my head, as she's been debatably Hibs best signing in years, but the whole Lennon saga doesn't sit right with me.
I actually thought Horgan scored a wonder goal when I seen it but won't call Flo a liar if he says he touched the ball.
Heckingbottom, extremely early days, but doesn't inspire me like Lennon.

Like Lennon when he first came in surely? Not Lennon of late?

Anyway I pity you for your first sentence. You re-read it slowly? I'm sorry I read it at all!

The 90+2
18-02-2019, 01:49 PM
Sorry but I've slowly re-read it and I still don't disagree with anything in it.
Regarding Leeann I have a big question mark over my head, as she's been debatably Hibs best signing in years, but the whole Lennon saga doesn't sit right with me.
I actually thought Horgan scored a wonder goal when I seen it but won't call Flo a liar if he says he touched the ball.
Heckingbottom, extremely early days, but doesn't inspire me like Lennon.

What exactly doesn't sit right with you?

To call a footballer a liar for claiming is over the top and been printed to cause a reaction. Divers are cheats as are football clubs who spend money they don't have then go into admin/liquidation to rip off everyone, not a striker claiming a goal.

What inspired you about Lennon being appointed that Hecky doesn't have considering down south, the only place you can compare them as Head Coaches it looks a lot more favorably for PH?

What about the X-Factor bit that was failed to mention had been gone long before Lennon left?

What about the *****y back to front performances that had been creeping in all season? That the players and fans alike where getting fed up of Lennon being completely blameless while ripping into certain individuals?

Tornadoes70
18-02-2019, 01:49 PM
Sorry but I've slowly re-read it and I still don't disagree with anything in it.
Regarding Leeann I have a big question mark over my head, as she's been debatably Hibs best signing in years, but the whole Lennon saga doesn't sit right with me.
I actually thought Horgan scored a wonder goal when I seen it but won't call Flo a liar if he says he touched the ball.
Heckingbottom, extremely early days, but doesn't inspire me like Lennon.

Lennon's gone now.

A new chapter is being written with Hecky now in charge who has started his reign in fine style with three points in the bag and a better all round team performance.

Capped with the yams being beaten with a howler from their keeper. A fine weekend.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

KWJ
18-02-2019, 01:58 PM
I liked reading Bill Leckie a lot when I was younger and thought his book was a decent read.

To say that the Scottish Cup win and the Lennon circus may not have bothered happening is utter pish. There was the Stubbs chapter, then there was the Lennon chapter all of which have had an upwards trajectory with a dip for the past 4-5 months which PH is now coming into hopefully rectify. Carry on.

silverhibee
18-02-2019, 02:07 PM
Agreed - I kinda wouldnt mind him having a pop at the club if he also mentioned that some of the issues were probably rightly laid at the door of the previous manager.

An imbalanced article that almost every Hibby would disagree with - however, as I said earlier he isnt writing this with us in mind. His audience and readership is 90% Sevco/Celtc.

Yip, we are the nasty team who robbed the the Rangers of there 1st cup win, and then we had the cheek to not sell one of our players to Celtc, to both set of fans we are the most hated club in Scotland at present for these deeds, to not even mention that Lennon had us in the bottom 6 when he left and playing s**t football is poor from Leckie, you would have thought he would have turned his attention to the awful scenes at Rugby Park, where allegations of Celtc fans invading the pitch and allegedly assaulting Killie players, missiles thrown at a Killie player and damage caused to the stadium by Celtc supporters would have been the story of the weekend, but no, poor turn out at ER allegedly and the atmosphere wasn't the best and another chance to put the boot in to our club and we were wrong to get rid of the winner that is Neil Lennon.

green with envy
18-02-2019, 02:21 PM
Sorry but I've slowly re-read it and I still don't disagree with anything in it.
Regarding Leeann I have a big question mark over my head, as she's been debatably Hibs best signing in years, but the whole Lennon saga doesn't sit right with me.
I actually thought Horgan scored a wonder goal when I seen it but won't call Flo a liar if he says he touched the ball.
Heckingbottom, extremely early days, but doesn't inspire me like Lennon.

He clearly touched the ball, but you still don't disagree with anything in it.:confused:

LeithMike
18-02-2019, 02:22 PM
Not sure what to make of the article. It isn't well-balanced and there seems to be a dig at both the players (particularly Kamberi) and the Board. Whatever anyone thinks about them, there is little doubt that Lennon also has some responsibility for where we are today too (something totally disregarded in the opinion piece).

That said, while it is a bit sensationalist, there is some merit in a lot of the points that Hibs' supporters shouldn't just be dismissing out of hand or mocking. While I am sure the Board would plump for success in a straight choice with mid-table mediocrity, it is very rare that we are faced with such simple and stark choices. Albeit in a crude way, I think the piece is suggesting that getting to the top involves a lot of risk and pain and that the Board probably don't have the stomach for it. I'm not too sure where I stand on that just now and think it is probably fairer to say that the jury is still out on that question . . .

Anyway, I think the condemnation of the Board goes too far, but equally, we shouldn't be instantly dismissing or shouting down anyone questioning our Board's ambition. I'd also be very surprised if journalists don't know a lot more than us about what has been going on.

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Waxy
18-02-2019, 02:29 PM
Bill Leckie haha.Most of the SPFL are hardly bouncing with enthusiasm are they. Even Celtic look like they’re a bit bored.

CallumLaidlaw
18-02-2019, 04:32 PM
Key points

*Attendance - Hibs publicise the number of tickets sold. Just like Hearts/Celtic/Rangers. Try looking at some of those teams home games midweek. 50k at Ibrox yet half empty.

*Excitement levels - this didn’t disappear 3 weeks ago when Lennon walked out the door. It happened around October when our small squad (due to not enough numbers brought in in the summer) was depleted further due to injuries and the management tried a number of daft formations and player selections. Lewis Allen starting games to prove a point, guys like Nelom signed and never used, a fit David Gray left on the bench. It isn’t a coincidence we’ve started to see the best of Slivka & Horgan when they’re playing where they’re more natural. We’ve had very few games to get excited about since the European games. Derby performances have been flat, and the swashbuckling style that’s been alluded to has only been seen in small glimpses.

*Lennon and the Media - There’s been a clear attempt to undermine Hibs since Lennon was suspended. Sutton/English/Jackson/Leckie the key culprits. Wasn’t it funny that papers had an exclusive with Lennon the morning we appointed PH. Also they’re far from happy that Hibs have very tightly kept this in house. Leeann nodded to it in her presser when she said she hadn’t been briefing the press behind the scenes. We could’ve brought in Pep and they would’ve undermined it. They know so little that they’re desperate to paint Kamberi as the villain, rather look at the fact he was regularly singled out without taking into account injuries, a different role in the team and way of playing. Leckie continues this theme with his dig at Kamberi.

Lennon left Hibs more than 2 weeks ago officially, yet the media are desperate to keep going with this. I’d love our club to stand up to them but in reality I’m not sure what banning them would do. They could still report on Hibs as they chose.


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Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 04:34 PM
That's a good point about Kamberi, Callum. I hadn't connected the two things.

Bostonhibby
18-02-2019, 04:34 PM
Key points

*Attendance - Hibs publicise the number of tickets sold. Just like Hearts/Celtic/Rangers. Try looking at some of those teams home games midweek. 50k at Ibrox yet half empty.

*Excitement levels - this didn’t disappear 3 weeks ago when Lennon walked out the door. It happened around October when our small squad (due to not enough numbers brought in in the summer) was depleted further due to injuries and the management tried a number of daft formations and player selections. Lewis Allen starting games to prove a point, guys like Nelom signed and never used, a fit David Gray left on the bench. It isn’t a coincidence we’ve started to see the best of Slivka & Horgan when they’re playing where they’re more natural. We’ve had very few games to get excited about since the European games. Derby performances have been flat, and the swashbuckling style that’s been alluded to has only been seen in small glimpses.

*Lennon and the Media - There’s been a clear attempt to undermine Hibs since Lennon was suspended. Sutton/English/Jackson/Leckie the key culprits. Wasn’t it funny that papers had an exclusive with Lennon the morning we appointed PH. Also they’re far from happy that Hibs have very tightly kept this in house. Leeann nodded to it in her presser when she said she hadn’t been briefing the press behind the scenes. We could’ve brought in Pep and they would’ve undermined it. They know so little that they’re desperate to paint Kamberi as the villain, rather look at the fact he was regularly singled out without taking into account injuries, a different role in the team and way of playing. Leckie continues this theme with his dig at Kamberi.

Lennon left Hibs more than 2 weeks ago officially, yet the media are desperate to keep going with this. I’d love our club to stand up to them but in reality I’m not sure what banning them would do. They could still report on Hibs as they chose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[emoji106]good post, agree with all of it.

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Kato
18-02-2019, 04:38 PM
Lennon left Hibs more than 2 weeks ago officially, yet the media are desperate to keep going with this.

It took them years to stop going on about Collins' departure, especially the losers on Sportsound who still occasionally bring it up, so this has a long way to go yet.

hibsbollah
18-02-2019, 04:40 PM
Key points

*Attendance - Hibs publicise the number of tickets sold. Just like Hearts/Celtic/Rangers. Try looking at some of those teams home games midweek. 50k at Ibrox yet half empty.

*Excitement levels - this didn’t disappear 3 weeks ago when Lennon walked out the door. It happened around October when our small squad (due to not enough numbers brought in in the summer) was depleted further due to injuries and the management tried a number of daft formations and player selections. Lewis Allen starting games to prove a point, guys like Nelom signed and never used, a fit David Gray left on the bench. It isn’t a coincidence we’ve started to see the best of Slivka & Horgan when they’re playing where they’re more natural. We’ve had very few games to get excited about since the European games. Derby performances have been flat, and the swashbuckling style that’s been alluded to has only been seen in small glimpses.

*Lennon and the Media - There’s been a clear attempt to undermine Hibs since Lennon was suspended. Sutton/English/Jackson/Leckie the key culprits. Wasn’t it funny that papers had an exclusive with Lennon the morning we appointed PH. Also they’re far from happy that Hibs have very tightly kept this in house. Leeann nodded to it in her presser when she said she hadn’t been briefing the press behind the scenes. We could’ve brought in Pep and they would’ve undermined it. They know so little that they’re desperate to paint Kamberi as the villain, rather look at the fact he was regularly singled out without taking into account injuries, a different role in the team and way of playing. Leckie continues this theme with his dig at Kamberi.

Lennon left Hibs more than 2 weeks ago officially, yet the media are desperate to keep going with this. I’d love our club to stand up to them but in reality I’m not sure what banning them would do. They could still report on Hibs as they chose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, nice post.

matty_f
18-02-2019, 04:44 PM
Key points

*Attendance - Hibs publicise the number of tickets sold. Just like Hearts/Celtic/Rangers. Try looking at some of those teams home games midweek. 50k at Ibrox yet half empty.

*Excitement levels - this didn’t disappear 3 weeks ago when Lennon walked out the door. It happened around October when our small squad (due to not enough numbers brought in in the summer) was depleted further due to injuries and the management tried a number of daft formations and player selections. Lewis Allen starting games to prove a point, guys like Nelom signed and never used, a fit David Gray left on the bench. It isn’t a coincidence we’ve started to see the best of Slivka & Horgan when they’re playing where they’re more natural. We’ve had very few games to get excited about since the European games. Derby performances have been flat, and the swashbuckling style that’s been alluded to has only been seen in small glimpses.

*Lennon and the Media - There’s been a clear attempt to undermine Hibs since Lennon was suspended. Sutton/English/Jackson/Leckie the key culprits. Wasn’t it funny that papers had an exclusive with Lennon the morning we appointed PH. Also they’re far from happy that Hibs have very tightly kept this in house. Leeann nodded to it in her presser when she said she hadn’t been briefing the press behind the scenes. We could’ve brought in Pep and they would’ve undermined it. They know so little that they’re desperate to paint Kamberi as the villain, rather look at the fact he was regularly singled out without taking into account injuries, a different role in the team and way of playing. Leckie continues this theme with his dig at Kamberi.

Lennon left Hibs more than 2 weeks ago officially, yet the media are desperate to keep going with this. I’d love our club to stand up to them but in reality I’m not sure what banning them would do. They could still report on Hibs as they chose.


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I don't think the numbers that were brought in in the summer were too low, I think we have had an abnormally high number of significant injuries, which makes it seem like we never brought in enough.

I'm sure someone will have done it but I don't think we had that many more out than came in?

Agree with the post otherwise, by the way. Were you in hospitality on Saturday? Thought I saw you in the posh seats. :greengrin

Davy Mac
18-02-2019, 05:19 PM
There wasn't much more at the last Hamilton game from what I remember. The Lennon love in with the press seems to never stop. Leckie is drawing the line in the wrong place. What about the dismal draws with St Mirren and Dundee and the appalling Derby game. Does he not remember all the games under Lennon where the ball spent most of its time in the air as we launched it aimlessly forward to a striker who is never a target man. There were months where it was more Butcheresque than Nirvana.

He might be right that there wasn't much drama on Saturday but that was because we were playing a bottom of the league team and we are mid table, the position the previous manager left us in, and one we look to have a chance of recovering from since his departure. We put out a team with players in the correct positions and clearly had a plan in order to get a result. The team executed that very well and I think the last 10 minutes or so showed that the crowd appreciated that as the singing started and the feel good signs started to return. We can kick on from the mess Lennon left us in and get key players like Flo back to their best. The drama and excitement will return soon enough with a competent manager and a harmonious squad.

Good post indeed.

ian cruise
18-02-2019, 05:20 PM
It's bonkers.

LD - Hang on, we're doing *too* well, I don't like it - crowds are up, income is up, profit is up, we're doing better than we've done in Europe for years... I know, I'll hijack it.
**phones Lennon**

NL - Hello?

LD - Hi Neil, it's Leeann here. Yes, Dempster. We need to talk, we're being too ambitious and we need to scale it back a bit please. Mid-table mediocrity is what we really want.

NL - Eh?

LD - Yeah, that's why we didn't keep McGinn. Honestly.

NL - Was it not just that it was time for him to go and Villa was a good move for him and us?

LD - that's the story we want to peddle to the masses, but in reality we don't want to do well. At least not that well. Just mediocre.

NL - well you're not matching my ambition. I'm a little upset about that.

LD - to be honest Neil, on the face of it the team's in 8th and we've given you plenty of money to work with so you're not really matching my ambition.

NL - but..

LD - Haha! just kidding, you're totally matching our ambition because mind I just told you that I want mediocrity. It's our new buzz word.

NL - have you been drinking?

LD - No. Must go now anyway, Rod's got these phone bills itemised and it'll come out of my pay if I'm on too long.

NL - Ok, see you later then. I'm off and taking Parker with me.

LD - you're not resigning are you?

NL - No, are you sacking me?

LD - No.

NL - But I am going, right?

LD - remember - ambition. Ssshhhh. Mum's the word.


**hangs up**

Brilliant stuff.

CallumLaidlaw
18-02-2019, 05:28 PM
I don't think the numbers that were brought in in the summer were too low, I think we have had an abnormally high number of significant injuries, which makes it seem like we never brought in enough.

I'm sure someone will have done it but I don't think we had that many more out than came in?

Agree with the post otherwise, by the way. Were you in hospitality on Saturday? Thought I saw you in the posh seats. :greengrin

Haha, yes was indeed in hospitality. Was a cracking afternoon.


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The Modfather
18-02-2019, 05:37 PM
I don't think the numbers that were brought in in the summer were too low, I think we have had an abnormally high number of significant injuries, which makes it seem like we never brought in enough.

I'm sure someone will have done it but I don't think we had that many more out than came in?

Agree with the post otherwise, by the way. Were you in hospitality on Saturday? Thought I saw you in the posh seats. :greengrin

Got to disagree with the bit in bold Matty. Even allowing for a normal amount of injuries and suspensions 3 strikers and 3 wingers, one of which was a known gamble due to his injury record isn’t enough. We started the season short in numbers up front and out wide IMO.

The Harp Awakes
18-02-2019, 05:47 PM
It was a bit strange. Bill Leckie is normally pretty complimentary but that article could have been penned by some of the posters on here who’ve repeatedly questioned the Board following NLs departure.

I agree that Leckie is often complimentary to Hibs and is one of the few pundits/football writers not scared to stand up to the OF and the Rangers in particular.

His article is not balanced though, as he fails to recognise that there have been some very poor performances this season and poor crowds/atmosphere in the ground, when NL was here.

His point about lack of ambition by the Board being the reason Lennon left has been done to death on here, but it is certainly a view speculated on by some supporters, me included. What I would say is, without the benefit of any evidence (from the Club or elsewhere) one way or another, it is difficult to completely rule out that point of view.

That aside, Lennon is history now so we just need to get behind the new coach and prove the media wrong.

HibeeHibernian4
18-02-2019, 05:54 PM
He’s right about the buzz in the stadium and the lack of swashbuckling football but that happened way before Lennon left. The crowd was no bigger last time Hamilton were here either.

:agree:

I can pinpoint the exact game where the enthusiasm and 'buzz' went, and it was Molde at home in August. From that night on, it's been a crowd of expectant fans rather than excited fans.

The Modfather
18-02-2019, 06:02 PM
:agree:

I can pinpoint the exact game where the enthusiasm and 'buzz' went, and it was Molde at home in August. From that night on, it's been a crowd of expectant fans rather than excited fans.

Wasn’t that the first game without McGinn? He was playing at a different level this season and his performances in Europe and Motherwell at home covered a lot of our deficiencies, which became clearer as the the season went on IMO

The 90+2
18-02-2019, 06:07 PM
Wasn’t that the first game without McGinn? He was playing at a different level this season and his performances in Europe and Motherwell at home covered a lot of our deficiencies, which became clearer as the the season went on IMO

McGinn made the rest of the team tick from January onwards. Nothing is more evident after he left. Mallan was class before Soups left for instance a Scott Brown prime player.

h18eeynick
18-02-2019, 06:19 PM
The only way any of this continued speculation is going to stop is that we continue the positive results of the last few weeks since Neil went. The signs are positive and let's hope we can do it. Hecky seems like a very good pick and for me there is a noticeable improvement in confidence, work rate and application together with the appearance of a plan on the park.
I watched the warm up and liked the way that it seemed to be more than a simple warm up, Robbie Stockdale was doing coaching as well and from what I saw the players liked his style.
Oh and one for Bill Leckie I don't care if Flo is at it, Hibs got a goal and there was a clear desire to win; something that I think has been missing for a while!

Yeah I noticed also that one of our coaches on the bench , of which there appeared to be a few , had a folder or something and at every Hamilton substitution he appeared to be referring to this with the rest of them . Hopefully identifying how to deal with the changes - good stuff in my opinion

Brooster
18-02-2019, 06:22 PM
My take on this thread. Hibs announced tickets sold which is fair enough. Bill Leckie is hurting at Hibs lack of engagement with the press (good on Hibs). Kamberi didn't touch the ball at the first goal (he is at it). And finally....a Hibs player turned up at training today with hickies.......have fun guessing who it was lol.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2019, 06:35 PM
I agree that Leckie is often complimentary to Hibs and is one of the few pundits/football writers not scared to stand up to the OF and the Rangers in particular.

His article is not balanced though, as he fails to recognise that there have been some very poor performances this season and poor crowds/atmosphere in the ground, when NL was here.

His point about lack of ambition by the Board being the reason Lennon left has been done to death on here, but it is certainly a view speculated on by some supporters, me included. What I would say is, without the benefit of any evidence (from the Club or elsewhere) one way or another, it is difficult to completely rule out that point of view.

That aside, Lennon is history now so we just need to get behind the new coach and prove the media wrong.

The ambition argument doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they be ambitious?

Leeann has said on more than one occasion that the ambition is to be challenging at the top of the league, playing in Europe regularly and getting to cup finals.

Is that being unambitious?

Hibs spent unwisely when McLeish was here trying to get success.

They have spent every penny of income they received on the club and this season we've been paying significant fees for players.

If Neil Lennon's ambitions couldn't be reached by using all the resources we had available, then he was being fanciful.

we are hibs
18-02-2019, 06:39 PM
My take on this thread. Hibs announced tickets sold which is fair enough. Bill Leckie is hurting at Hibs lack of engagement with the press (good on Hibs). Kamberi didn't touch the ball at the first goal (he is at it). And finally....a Hibs player turned up at training today with hickies.......have fun guessing who it was lol.

BT showed an angle from behind the goals and kamberi got a clear touch which changed the direction of the ball.

Captain Trips
18-02-2019, 06:44 PM
Bill Leckie etc do not have a season book and do not pay at the gate to watch Hibs. They are lucky enough to have a job with a "newspaper" his opinion holds less weight than every poster on here. I am more than happy to discuss Hibs with fans of other clubs who are genuine in their views and not putting their own slant.

I am in Glasgow and after we play either Sevco or Celtic I am quite happy to take on board my friends views who hold STs with both clubs opinion on what they thought of Hibs. Some of our Jambo friends who post on here are views I would rather read.

Kamberi is at it? Why is he so interested in him? Kamberi scored the goal get it up ye. I am just getting the vibe these pr1cks are desperate for Hibs to fail.

Keith_M
18-02-2019, 06:50 PM
Watching on hibs tv it looked like east was about 90% full and north about the same which is more than usual. Coukdntvseecwest butvassuming abount he same 90% of 16k is about 14.5k plus around 350 in the south. So maybe 15k was closer to actual attendance


There really wasn't, sadly. I reckon there was between 12-13k actually there.

However, that's nothing new for this season and Leckie was just using it as a rod to beat the club's back with.

BoomtownHibees
18-02-2019, 06:54 PM
There really wasn't, sadly. I reckon there was between 12-13k actually there.

However, that's nothing new for this season and Leckie was just using it as a rod to beat the club's back with.

I don’t believe you could have fit another 8-9000 folk in on Saturday

Brooster
18-02-2019, 06:58 PM
There really wasn't, sadly. I reckon there was between 12-13k actually there.

However, that's nothing new for this season and Leckie was just using it as a rod to beat the club's back with.

So what? We sold over 16k and that's what matters. There was more than 12-13k there in my opinion.

Keith_M
18-02-2019, 06:58 PM
I don’t believe you could have fit another 8-9000 folk in on Saturday


It would be 7-8,000, and I think you could.

I have some photos I took during the game of the East, South and FF but having trouble uploading them.

I'll try again...

HibeeHibernian4
18-02-2019, 06:59 PM
Wasn’t that the first game without McGinn? He was playing at a different level this season and his performances in Europe and Motherwell at home covered a lot of our deficiencies, which became clearer as the the season went on IMO

There had been little-to-no negativity around Easter Road until that Molde game, and then came a run of draws and defeats that meant we went into the international break with 5 points from a possible 12. Combine that with fans feeling we weren't doing enough in the transfer market and you can see exactly where things went wrong. Failure to break down/beat Molde that night may have cost us big time.

Keith_M
18-02-2019, 07:00 PM
So what? We sold over 16k and that's what matters. There was more than 12-13k there in my opinion.


Calm doon, I wasn't attacking anybody except Leckie.

:rolleyes:

brog
18-02-2019, 07:35 PM
Yip, we are the nasty team who robbed the the Rangers of there 1st cup win, and then we had the cheek to not sell one of our players to Celtc, to both set of fans we are the most hated club in Scotland at present for these deeds, to not even mention that Lennon had us in the bottom 6 when he left and playing s**t football is poor from Leckie, you would have thought he would have turned his attention to the awful scenes at Rugby Park, where allegations of Celtc fans invading the pitch and allegedly assaulting Killie players, missiles thrown at a Killie player and damage caused to the stadium by Celtc supporters would have been the story of the weekend, but no, poor turn out at ER allegedly and the atmosphere wasn't the best and another chance to put the boot in to our club and we were wrong to get rid of the winner that is Neil Lennon.

Great post! I've always liked Leckie but this article is a heap of steaming ordure. He contrasts the difference between the last home game vs Hamilton to this one but neglects to point out that in this almost half season we have won 4 league games, 50% of which have come since NL has gone. His singling out of Kamberi is significant, it fits with the current agenda being peddled. John James, yes I know, states that Kamberi was a poor role model for the younger players, conveniently ignoring the fact that Kamberi is one of the younger players! I don't want to go down the route of being critical of a former manager who brought us a degree of success. There's no doubt however that some of NL's selections, tactics & press statements were increasingly bizarre in recent months. I wish him well but I honestly doubt if he'll ever again get a managerial job of comparable status to that at ER.

Smartie
18-02-2019, 07:39 PM
The last few times I've been at ER I'd have been surprised if the crowd broke 5 figures, including Saturday.

Pish away support and a smattering of home fans in the home end of the South, so there is one end gone. Huge spaces in the FF and West stands. I'm on the halfway line near the back of the East and there were plenty of spaces around me (possibly amongst the most in-demand seats in the house?).

I can't believe folk are taking issue with this.

There weren't many more in there imo than when we were getting 8000 or so in the Championship.

Prof. Shaggy
18-02-2019, 07:45 PM
Maybe he phoned someone else after you and went with their quote 😉

Nah, there really wasn't anyone else to phone. 😋

Sammy7nil
18-02-2019, 07:46 PM
Bill Leckie is a hack. Not worth bothering about.

I like BL but that is a tired desperate article.

jgl07
18-02-2019, 07:55 PM
No danger there was 16k, that would mean every seat would need to be occupied in all 3 home stands as the South holds just under 4,000 fans. There was about 100 Hamilton fans. Lucky if there was 200 home fans in the South as well.

16k tickets sold maybe, 16k in the ground no way.

For the umpteenth time, Hibs report ticket sales not people going through the turnstiles.

There is not much that can be done if people buy season tickets and fail to attend.

Well there may be, if action was taken about the 'phantom' season ticket holder in the FF Lower Stand.

brog
18-02-2019, 07:56 PM
The last few times I've been at ER I'd have been surprised if the crowd broke 5 figures, including Saturday.

Pish away support and a smattering of home fans in the home end of the South, so there is one end gone. Huge spaces in the FF and West stands. I'm on the halfway line near the back of the East and there were plenty of spaces around me (possibly amongst the most in-demand seats in the house?).

I can't believe folk are taking issue with this.

There weren't many more in there imo than when we were getting 8000 or so in the Championship.

We had over 9,000 vs Raith the week before. The crowd on Sat was significantly higher. It wasn't 16,000 but it was closer to that number than it was to 8,000.

Keith_M
18-02-2019, 07:56 PM
I don't know if this is high enough resolution to make out but...

That was the East Stand 22 minutes into the first half, i.e. everybody should be in by now and before the rush for half time coffee

21710




EDIT: Nah, can't really make it out...

Billy Whizz
18-02-2019, 07:57 PM
I don't know if this is high enough resolution to make out but...

That was the East Stand 22 minutes into the first half, i.e. everybody sohuld be in by now and before the rush for half time coffee

21710

Pity you didn’t put your flash on😜

Keith_M
18-02-2019, 07:59 PM
Pity you didn’t put your flash on😜


You can get done for that!


:wink:

houstonhibbee
18-02-2019, 08:03 PM
There really wasn't, sadly. I reckon there was between 12-13k actually there.

However, that's nothing new for this season and Leckie was just using it as a rod to beat the club's back with.
Anyway of finding out the actual attendance?

Stevie Reid
18-02-2019, 08:35 PM
The line about us apparently feeling that the Scottish Cup win may as well not have happened is both pitifully ill informed, and an incredible overreaction to Lennon’s departure.

In a football context, it’s up there with the most stupid things I’ve ever read.

Keith_M
18-02-2019, 09:11 PM
Anyway of finding out the actual attendance?


Dunno bud. I expect the club have the exact numbers but they never seem to release them.

basehibby
19-02-2019, 12:06 AM
He's right, lucky if there was 11k at the game.

That is a pure crock of sheight and you know it.

The crowd was decent - as you would expect with a new manager on show. We all know that Hibs have followed the lead of other clubs in reporting tickets sold rather than counting clicks through the turnstile - but if I'm any judge there would have been about 15K there on Sat - a bloody good crowd for a home game to Hamilton.

Leckie is a journo I have enjoyed in the past but this just stinks of a desperate hack scraping around for a story in the gutter - piecing together shards of half truths to come up with a line in fantasy which blatantly seeks to stir up controversy rather than to inform. Maybe all these years at the Sun have lead to him equalising his standards to his surroundings?

Phil MaGlass
19-02-2019, 08:05 AM
Is it just me, or do these writers only put their stories out, in hope they get a mention on here:-)

Hibbyradge
19-02-2019, 10:58 AM
Is it just me, or do these writers only put their stories out, in hope they get a mention on here:-)

I didn't know that you put stories out at all, never mind in the hope that they're picked up by hibs.net.

Wouldn't it be more straightforward just to start a thread?

allezsauzee
19-02-2019, 12:09 PM
I don't read the sun and I only read this piece because a link was posted on twitter by a Hibby. I expected to read it thinking the guy was making some sensationalist dig at Hibs. However aside from exaggerating how overstated the crowd was, there wasn't too much I disagreed with in the article. Lennon noises people up. He didn't always get things right, no manager does. However he has a desire to win and not accept mediocrity from his team. While he was there, I had faith at someone at the club had ambition. I don't get that vibe from Paul Heckingbottom but here's hoping he just keeps it all out of the public eye and just has a more measured way of going about his business. Time will tell.

The 90+2
19-02-2019, 12:11 PM
^^we won 2 in 12 under Lennon and where a shambles. What a will to win. He lost that the end of last season.

allezsauzee
19-02-2019, 12:18 PM
^^we won 2 in 12 under Lennon and where a shambles. What a will to win. He lost that the end of last season.

I'm pretty sure if you cherrypicked a 12 game run of any Hibs manager , you'd be able to find a run like that in their record. Victim of his own success last season that had everyone expecting challenging in the top 4 at a minimum, without taking into account we lost an entire midfield and have had horrendous injuries.

oldbutdim
19-02-2019, 12:20 PM
So, what about the hickies then?


Are we guessing who HAD them, or who GAVE them?
:confused:

HibeeHibernian4
19-02-2019, 12:31 PM
I'm pretty sure if you cherrypicked a 12 game run of any Hibs manager , you'd be able to find a run like that in their record. Victim of his own success last season that had everyone expecting challenging in the top 4 at a minimum, without taking into account we lost an entire midfield and have had horrendous injuries.

No, I would’ve been perfectly content with us sitting in 6th and loooking like we were playing well without getting results. Even in 8th, I was happy to give Lennon until May to turn things around. What cost it for him was his beratement ot his squad (both in public and, one can assume, in private). At the same time, he took almost no responsibility for the horrendous tactics against some truly bottom six dross (2-2 draws at home to Dundee and St Mirren stick out most).

matty_f
19-02-2019, 01:15 PM
So, what about the hickies then?


Are we guessing who HAD them, or who GAVE them?
:confused:

My money's on Mallan, he was all posting to his Instagram that he was out with his other half, so that's who I'm betting on.

WhileTheChief..
19-02-2019, 01:20 PM
5 pages is surprising when none of you read “that rag”.

Keith_M
19-02-2019, 01:20 PM
So, what about the hickies then?


Are we guessing who HAD them, or who GAVE them?
:confused:



Hickey-nbottom?

Hibbyradge
19-02-2019, 01:27 PM
5 pages is surprising when none of you read “that rag”.

You'll have seen the OP?

Hibbyradge
19-02-2019, 01:28 PM
Hickey-nbottom?

Very good 👍

heretoday
19-02-2019, 03:05 PM
I'm delighted to say that in The Scotsman newspaper today there is no mention whatsoever of HFC.
Whether this reflects badly on the paper itself is open to debate but it makes a refreshing change.

Broken Gnome
20-02-2019, 05:40 AM
You've got interviews with Lennon in the press today - nothing untoward said - which are nicely timed with the first utterances from Michael Appleton about HIBS NOT MATCHING HIS AMBITION.

Viva_Palmeiras
20-02-2019, 05:55 AM
I didn't know that you put stories out at all, never mind in the hope that they're picked up by hibs.net.

Wouldn't it be more straightforward just to start a thread?

But that wouldn’t drive traffic / clicks -> advertising revenues for a battered industry

That’s why we have controversy and pundits/journos stirring it up.

green day
20-02-2019, 07:19 AM
You've got interviews with Lennon in the press today - nothing untoward said - which are nicely timed with the first utterances from Michael Appleton about HIBS NOT MATCHING HIS AMBITION.

Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

The Harp Awakes
20-02-2019, 07:59 AM
Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.

bigwheel
20-02-2019, 08:01 AM
Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

His quote Would suggest he felt he is to big / good for us ...if we wouldn’t match his ambition it would only be due to our financial constraints..there would be no use is spending more than we can for any manager..sounds like, regardless how good a coach he may be, he wasn’t the right guy for us

ian cruise
20-02-2019, 08:15 AM
Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

If you thnk your answer will sound as, if you are being arrogant and disrespectful then there's a good chance is that you are being arrogant and disrespectful. It's a bit like someone saying "I don't want to be rude but..."

Sounds like he's trying to cover his back after some of the stories about his requests (I've no idea how true they were) in the hope they haven't put off other suitors. I suspect he fancies himself too big for Scottish football knowing he's not going to win the title and seeing the level of job managers from the SPFL get offered down south. He's possibly right and getting a job as a number 2 at a bigger club is possibly more attractive a CV to other English clubs than managing up here due to the arrogant opinion the leagues have of themselves.

brog
20-02-2019, 08:28 AM
I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.

You will always get one offs such as your example & Leicester but there's a clear &.proven correlation between spend & success. It wss no coincidence that Chelsea & Man C won the league for the 1st time in 50 & 40 years respectively after they were bought by billionaires.

green day
20-02-2019, 08:32 AM
I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.

I know what you are saying, but if he said "I want to challenge for the title within the bounds of the existing financials" do you seriously think Leeann D would say "nah, not for us, see ya"?


His quote Would suggest he felt he is to big / good for us ...if we wouldn’t match his ambition it would only be due to our financial constraints..there would be no use is spending more than we can for any manager..sounds like, regardless how good a coach he may be, he wasn’t the right guy for us

Agreed


If you thnk your answer will sound as, if you are being arrogant and disrespectful then there's a good chance is that you are being arrogant and disrespectful. It's a bit like someone saying "I don't want to be rude but..."

Sounds like he's trying to cover his back after some of the stories about his requests (I've no idea how true they were) in the hope they haven't put off other suitors. I suspect he fancies himself too big for Scottish football knowing he's not going to win the title and seeing the level of job managers from the SPFL get offered down south. He's possibly right and getting a job as a number 2 at a bigger club is possibly more attractive a CV to other English clubs than managing up here due to the arrogant opinion the leagues have of themselves.

I suspect you are right - its interesting, because it could be another negative side effect of the trickle down of EPL tv money - i.e. even out of work coaches have made enough dough at their previous roles that when (what we think is) an attractive job in Scotland comes around, some might just say "nah, the overall salary, transfer kitty etc etc just isnt enough".

Might not be the case, we will never know.

Sammy7nil
20-02-2019, 01:00 PM
Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

Did they ask if he was formally offered the job - I would expect not so perhaps he did not meet Hibs criteria :confused:

Lago
20-02-2019, 01:09 PM
I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.
Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.

bigwheel
20-02-2019, 01:44 PM
Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.


is that implying we lack ambition? Over many years it has shown that money drives success in football, with very very few exceptions - for example: Leicester were still incredibly well funded when they had their "miracle"...

With our level of funding, we can only hope for incredible exceptional silverware achievements...

Stevie Reid
20-02-2019, 05:01 PM
IF Appleton was impressive enough to have been offered the job, then surely he would have been offered the same length of deal (3.5 years) that PH eventually signed. It says a lot about his ambition and mindset if he decided against it due to a disagreement over what he would get if he were sacked.

matty_f
20-02-2019, 05:05 PM
Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.

What do you base that on, and isn't it possible to be a top club that is also rooted in the community?

I don't think your point makes sense, to be honest.

matty_f
20-02-2019, 05:21 PM
IF Appleton was impressive enough to have been offered the job, then surely he would have been offered the same length of deal (3.5 years) that PH eventually signed. It says a lot about his ambition and mindset if he decided against it due to a disagreement over what he would get if he were sacked.

I can't get my head around the 'ambition' argument.

Leeann Dempster said that she wants us to be participating in European football regularly through league position (which I think is top 4) or via winning the Scottish Cup. This would, presumably, be the measure of success and a minimum requirement.

If Appleton is more ambitious than that then he's looking for top 3 at worst, or winning the league at best.

Presumably he would want us to spend to achieve that, but the gap between what we can spend and what Celtic and Rangers can spend (before even considering Hearts and Aberdeen) is so vast as to be absurd to think we could bridge it.

So if he's *more* ambitious than the board, is he just setting himself up to fail? Would it have made a difference if Dempster had said we want to win the league (but he'll have to be good enough to do it on our budget)?

Is that being more ambitious?

The idea that a football club - and I mean pretty much any football club here, not just Hibs, wouldn't be ambitious is absurd.

If you asked the Chairman of St Johnstone if he wants to win the league of course he would say yes, but relative to their spend he would aim for top 6 and consider that ambitious. I'm sure the Hamilton owner would have ambitions to win the league but targetting staying in the league is more realistic to where they are.

What else, other than spend, would limit ambition? Hibs' set up is designed to get the team over-performing (better than the sum of its parts).

The structure that has had so much coverage recently means that we have things in place to do the best we can with recruitment, with analysis, with coaching, with conditioning, with diet and so on.

If you had no ambition, why bother?

The argument does not stand up to any scrutiny?

You can shout about not replacing John McGinn or McGeouch and say that wasn't ambitious, but the reality is that these players aren't readily replacable - if they were then guess what - the bigger teams would be hoovering up the alternatives.

That's not being unambitious. That's just the reality of being a club our size.

If someone could better explain what they mean when they say we aren't ambitious, I'd love to hear it - I genuinely don't understand what people are expecting when they talk about ambition now.

weecounty hibby
20-02-2019, 05:31 PM
Sounds like the excuses of someone who wasn't actually offered the job. I believe Leeann when she says no one else was offered the job except PH. And if true that he asked for 12 month's pay for severance then he didn't really back himself to be successful. His loss not being at our club

Stevie Reid
20-02-2019, 05:56 PM
I can't get my head around the 'ambition' argument.

Leeann Dempster said that she wants us to be participating in European football regularly through league position (which I think is top 4) or via winning the Scottish Cup. This would, presumably, be the measure of success and a minimum requirement.

If Appleton is more ambitious than that then he's looking for top 3 at worst, or winning the league at best.

Presumably he would want us to spend to achieve that, but the gap between what we can spend and what Celtic and Rangers can spend (before even considering Hearts and Aberdeen) is so vast as to be absurd to think we could bridge it.

So if he's *more* ambitious than the board, is he just setting himself up to fail? Would it have made a difference if Dempster had said we want to win the league (but he'll have to be good enough to do it on our budget)?

Is that being more ambitious?

The idea that a football club - and I mean pretty much any football club here, not just Hibs, wouldn't be ambitious is absurd.

If you asked the Chairman of St Johnstone if he wants to win the league of course he would say yes, but relative to their spend he would aim for top 6 and consider that ambitious. I'm sure the Hamilton owner would have ambitions to win the league but targetting staying in the league is more realistic to where they are.

What else, other than spend, would limit ambition? Hibs' set up is designed to get the team over-performing (better than the sum of its parts).

The structure that has had so much coverage recently means that we have things in place to do the best we can with recruitment, with analysis, with coaching, with conditioning, with diet and so on.

If you had no ambition, why bother?

The argument does not stand up to any scrutiny?

You can shout about not replacing John McGinn or McGeouch and say that wasn't ambitious, but the reality is that these players aren't readily replacable - if they were then guess what - the bigger teams would be hoovering up the alternatives.

That's not being unambitious. That's just the reality of being a club our size.

If someone could better explain what they mean when they say we aren't ambitious, I'd love to hear it - I genuinely don't understand what people are expecting when they talk about ambition now.

Totally agree Matty, and I really think Appleton is just trying to deflect from the fact that he wasn't offered the job.

Even the idea of Rangers - whose spending and potential income absolutely dwarfs ours - winning the SPL any time soon is pretty fanciful, which just shows you the level that Celtic are at. Two seasons ago they dropped a sum total of 8 points over a 38 game season, they have won every trophy available in Scotland for the last two seasons, and have a huge cash sum in the bank.

There's nothing wrong with our ambitions, they are both exciting and achievable. Aside from the league championship, the other two trophies were pretty well shared around in the years up until Rodgers arrived at Celtic, and they can't keep winning the treble every year.

bigwheel
20-02-2019, 06:06 PM
I can't get my head around the 'ambition' argument.

Leeann Dempster said that she wants us to be participating in European football regularly through league position (which I think is top 4) or via winning the Scottish Cup. This would, presumably, be the measure of success and a minimum requirement.

If Appleton is more ambitious than that then he's looking for top 3 at worst, or winning the league at best.

Presumably he would want us to spend to achieve that, but the gap between what we can spend and what Celtic and Rangers can spend (before even considering Hearts and Aberdeen) is so vast as to be absurd to think we could bridge it.

So if he's *more* ambitious than the board, is he just setting himself up to fail? Would it have made a difference if Dempster had said we want to win the league (but he'll have to be good enough to do it on our budget)?

Is that being more ambitious?

The idea that a football club - and I mean pretty much any football club here, not just Hibs, wouldn't be ambitious is absurd.

If you asked the Chairman of St Johnstone if he wants to win the league of course he would say yes, but relative to their spend he would aim for top 6 and consider that ambitious. I'm sure the Hamilton owner would have ambitions to win the league but targetting staying in the league is more realistic to where they are.

What else, other than spend, would limit ambition? Hibs' set up is designed to get the team over-performing (better than the sum of its parts).

The structure that has had so much coverage recently means that we have things in place to do the best we can with recruitment, with analysis, with coaching, with conditioning, with diet and so on.

If you had no ambition, why bother?

The argument does not stand up to any scrutiny?

You can shout about not replacing John McGinn or McGeouch and say that wasn't ambitious, but the reality is that these players aren't readily replacable - if they were then guess what - the bigger teams would be hoovering up the alternatives.

That's not being unambitious. That's just the reality of being a club our size.

If someone could better explain what they mean when they say we aren't ambitious, I'd love to hear it - I genuinely don't understand what people are expecting when they talk about ambition now.


good post - can't disagree with any of that..

I wonder if he came with a budget request that Hibs refused to match??

In that case - he wasn't right for us .

If we have more money coming in, we'd spend it - the club don't make much (any) profit , so we don't have an approach that is about being shy of spending what money we have.

Captain Trips
20-02-2019, 06:35 PM
Sounds like the excuses of someone who wasn't actually offered the job. I believe Leeann when she says no one else was offered the job except PH. And if true that he asked for 12 month's pay for severance then he didn't really back himself to be successful. His loss not being at our club

I do not understand this severance part is it actually true? If he signed a 3.5 yr deal and we sacked him after a year due to results then he would get a pay off based on the 2.5yrs remaining? It would only matter if he had 11mths or less to go.

It sounds a very strange to me.

Keith_M
20-02-2019, 06:59 PM
Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.


No one outside the Old Firm have won the league for the last 33 years. They have average attendances of 48k and 58k, with hundreds of thousands of non-attending fans.

I think there may be a link between the two and realism had to kick in at some time.

I admire your optimism thinking we could ever compete with the ugly sisters, but the last time we won the league was 67 years ago and the last time we finished runners-up was 44 years ago.

bigwheel
20-02-2019, 07:15 PM
I do not understand this severance part is it actually true? If he signed a 3.5 yr deal and we sacked him after a year due to results then he would get a pay off based on the 2.5yrs remaining? It would only matter if he had 11mths or less to go.

It sounds a very strange to me.

It would depend on the exit conditions in the contract.