What Has Gone wrong at Hibs?

[Pretty Boy]

A few years ago I attended a meeting at ER with our then new Chief Executive. It's fair to say it was a feisty affair; with the noise of a couple of thousand protesting fans outside, a lot of anger at our relegation and the manager who had taken us there still in post. Over the course of the meeting LD started to outline her vision for the club and assured us things would get better and there was a long term vision for sustainable performance at the expected level. Despite the relegation issue being raw I left ER feeling infinitely more positive than when I entered.

The beginning of the following season was tough; an away defeat at Alloa sticks in my mind as our then 1st choice striker went down with an obviously serious injury, some guy from Bristol City looked like Bambi on ice and an unfit midfielder called Scott Allan failed to shine. There was some real vitriolic abuse aimed at the team and Paul Heffernan and Stubbs were the main targets. However we picked up pretty quickly and by the end of the season we had deservedly pipped Rangers to 2nd place and the spontaneous applause that broke out with a minute or so to go in the play off 2nd leg was testament to the effort the team and management had put in that season to build something from nothing. Throughout that season everything coming from the club was positive. The AGM was heated but the club got their point over and seemed to win a majority of fans round, various groups visited East Mains and heard a lot of positive messages about recruitment, fitness, nutrition and so on and were impressed. The one take away I always had was that there would be a clear succession plan in place both for managers and players and never again would we be in a position where we required a complete rebuild.

It's hard to fully describe the next few seasons at Hibs. The 2nd league campaign Stubbs had was undoubtedly disappointing however the sheer volume of fixtures we played between January and May has to be considered as mitigation. The cup runs were unbelievable and we came so close to doing something completely unprecedented for a club outside Glasgow in the last 3 decades, The Scottish Cup win was quite literally a once in a lifetime event and launched the feel good factor into overdrive. Stubbs leaving wasn't entirely unexpected but being able to attract a manager with the profile of Neil Lennon was. He started with a gallant display v Brondby and followed it up with another decent SC run and we got the job done in the league. Our return to the top flight was, for half a season, solid and one we should all have been happy with. Then the 2nd half of the season was sensational as we played some brilliant football and remained in contention for 2nd until defeat at Tynecastle.

That brings us up to now. Losing our midfield trio was always going to be tough but, being totally honest, at least 2 of the 3 going was inevitable. Add to that we had a squad that was slowly ageing together and there was a rebuild to be done. Arguably the 1st real test of our structure since the initial squad build when Stubbs took over, the million dollar question is: has it been successful?

I don't really know where it has all gone wrong. On paper many of our summer signings looked solid business, whilst it was a big ask to kick on again this year I expected us to have a squad capable of consolidating our position as top 6 regulars and be right in the mix for 3rd/4th. That hasn't happened. Some of the narrative seems to suggest we 'don't care' or have 'lost our fight' since Lennon left but that's nonsense imo; we have been insipid and flat for much of the season. We are now at a point where we are without a manager, requiring a massive rebuild and struggling to make the top 6. There are stories of fans fighting among themselves, there's a very noticeable split in the fanbase, the club is silent, much of the media and communication that has been a hallmark of the positivity of recent years has completely dried up and we seem to lack any unity, identity or direction.

So where has it all gone wrong? Any system requires all it's parts to be working to a certain level and there must be a blockage somewhere at Hibs. Is changing the head coach the answer or are the problems far more deep rooted? I suppose it will all become apparent between now and the end of the summer window.

[Leitherhibs]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

[hibsbollah]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

Agree. Our inability to replace our best players is at the root of it all.

There may have been backward steps taken in terms of fans liaison/ communication etc, Im not involved in that so I can only go by what others say, but regardless I think it's just a side issue.

It's all about what happens on the pitch. Our most incisive speedy striker? serious injury, out. Our classiest defender who initiated most of the attacks? Left in the window, out. Midfield trio McGinn McGeough and Scott Allan? Out , and despite we knew they were going, none adequately replaced. Some might say McGinn was always going to be irreplaceable.

No team can survive losing five key players in all areas of the pitch and prosper.

What really grates is the massively increased gate receipts since 2016 should have meant more money for players. The quality of recruitment has clearly been a disappointment since then.

[Ray_]

Agree. Our inability to replace our best players is at the root of it all.

There may have been backward steps taken in terms of fans liaison/ communication etc, Im not involved in that so I can only go by what others say, but regardless I think it's just a side issue.

It's all about what happens on the pitch. Our most incisive speedy striker? serious injury, out. Our classiest defender who initiated most of the attacks? Left in the window, out. Midfield trio McGinn McGeough and Scott Allan? Out , and despite we knew they were going, none adequately replaced. Some might say McGinn was always going to be irreplaceable.

No team can survive losing five key players in all areas of the pitch and prosper.

What really grates is the massively increased gate receipts since 2016 should have meant more money for players. The quality of recruitment has clearly been a disappointment since then.

So called lesser teams have done it and performed far better than what we have done recently.

[lapsedhibee]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.
Yes, and this window lost our best player from this season. Always going to struggle to maintain performance levels in that kind of situation, and Lennon appearing to lose interest hasn't helped. Don't think the whole club is necessarily goosed though. Lennon is gone suddenly and we wait to see if there's an improvement like the one we saw after Butcher was gone suddenly.

[Antifa Hibs]

Leitherhibs wrote...
We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

Yep pretty much. Wereas Aberdeen invested and managed to build on their successes and managed to sustain it, it appears we have penny pinched (looking at the squad and quality we have brought in) and it's cost us dearly. We've went from a historical Scottish Cup win and then promotion to then challenging for 2nd/3rd place up and until the 2nd last game last season to a 3 game run in the Europa - to this - season looking over while we scrap with Motherwell, St Johnstone and Livingston for a top 6 finish.

How do our signings work? I mind after the slander by Keith Jackson and the Daily Ranger Hibs invited them for an exclusive behind the scene tour. Not once can i recall seeing the gaffer talking about players but other members of the footballing department. Who signs the players? The manager or George Craig and his recruitment team and the board? Not a fishing attempt just a genuine interest in how modern football clubs work?

Hibs and Dempster could also help themselves with some communication with the fans. I'm not expecting them to air their's and Lenny's dirty secrets but keeping us in the loop would be nice. No doubt we'll have some generic patronising pish about how its our club and they need us more than ever etc etc in a few weeks time when the season ticket renewal forms starting coming through the door.

[Peevemor]

Yep pretty much. Wereas Aberdeen invested and managed to build on their successes and managed to sustain it, it appears we have penny pinched (looking at the squad and quality we have brought in) and it's cost us dearly. We've went from a historical Scottish Cup win and then promotion to then challenging for 2nd/3rd place up and until the 2nd last game last season to a 3 game run in the Europa - to this - season looking over while we scrap with Motherwell, St Johnstone and Livingston for a top 6 finish.

How do our signings work? I mind after the slander by Keith Jackson and the Daily Ranger Hibs invited them for an exclusive behind the scene tour. Not once can i recall seeing the gaffer talking about players but other members of the footballing department. Who signs the players? The manager or George Craig and his recruitment team and the board? Not a fishing attempt just a genuine interest in how modern football clubs work?

Hibs and Dempster could also help themselves with some communication with the fans. I'm not expecting them to air their's and Lenny's dirty secrets but keeping us in the loop would be nice. No doubt we'll have some generic patronising pish about how its our club and they need us more than ever etc etc in a few weeks time when the season ticket renewal forms starting coming through the door.

Aberdeen
Turnover £15.4m
Wages £8.6m

Hibs
Turnover £9.6m
Wages £5.3m

Where are Hibs penny pinching?

[H18 SFR]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

Totally nailed on, nothing really needs to be said beyond this.

[Ozyhibby]

Aberdeen
Turnover £15.4m
Wages £8.6m

Hibs
Turnover £9.6m
Wages £5.3m

Where are Hibs penny pinching?

Questions need asked of our board why we can’t match the turnover of Aberdeen when we have bigger crowds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HibbyScott]

Aberdeen
Turnover £15.4m
Wages £8.6m

Hibs
Turnover £9.6m
Wages £5.3m

Where are Hibs penny pinching?

Aberdeen's Wage:Turnover ratio is 55.8%
Ours is 55.2%

That 0.6%!!! Petrie!!!!

[Ozyhibby]

Totally nailed on, nothing really needs to be said beyond this.

And we just bought more benchwarmers in this window. 4 midfielders signed and they can’t dislodge Slivka and Milligan from the team.
That is a serious failing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hughio]

Totally nailed on, nothing really needs to be said beyond this.

....except why no anticipation?

[Ozyhibby]

Aberdeen's Wage:Turnover ratio is 55.8%
Ours is 55.2%

That 0.6%!!! Petrie!!!!

Why is our turnover 50% lower on larger crowds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hermit Crab]

Failing to replace the quality players we lost has cost us on the park. Simple as that. Our ageing defence is the next concern.

[Spike Mandela]

We're having a mediocre season. We have lost a high profile manager. The hand wringing has gone in to overdrive and every negative is being highlighted.

Personally if looking at the overall 'project Hibs' this period will be seen as a blip in the positive trend upwards of our club.

In most areas Hibs are in a good position with good people in place and any new manager will hopefully have the desired effect this year and continue our progress next year.

[green day]

Questions need asked of our board why we can’t match the turnover of Aberdeen when we have bigger crowds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty confident that you already know a lot of the extra turnover is because Aberdeen have more "in house" staff than us.

I agree that we need to add outside investment though.

[Peevemor]

Questions need asked of our board why we can’t match the turnover of Aberdeen when we have bigger crowds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that income from advertising, sponsorships, hospitality, etc. will be higher given that they're in a one-team city.

They also have their American director chucking money in.

[HibbyScott]

Why is our turnover 50% lower on larger crowds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aberdeen have someone with considerable wealth pumping money into the club do they not?

[Wakeyhibee]

It's been said for a long time the club have failed to use their resources wisely.

We have unearthed a gem here and there both in management and through the ranks, we've bought the odd player who has been fantastic and sold on for a lot of money.

It's very rarely replaced so it's a continual cycle.

Other clubs on a lot less are reasonably consistent at their level, Hibs have never been as far as I can remember.

It wasn't lost on me that when 3 big clubs find themselves in the Championship at the same time, only one of which was in a reasonable financial state, the other two recovering from huge problems. We were the last to achieve promotion.

The cup win was fantastic and put some crap to bed. But if you roll the dice long enough you'll get a double 6.

Its all down to the running of the club. Lots of teams get decimated of talent it's how managed as to whether you're consistent or not at whatever level.

[BILLYHIBS]

Brilliant OP from PB as usual a well thought out and balanced post

Nail on the head: failure to replace our midfield compounded by Celtic not playing ball over SA and a Manager that ultimately didnae want to be here

In Lennys defence with the miracle of hindsight a reduced fee for SJM with SA and Christie might have been a better option for us rather than straight cash if that was ever an option?

At the end of the day SJM chose Aston Villa

I agree with the OP how did it ever come to this?

[The Modfather]

A few years ago I attended a meeting at ER with our then new Chief Executive. It's fair to say it was a feisty affair; with the noise of a couple of thousand protesting fans outside, a lot of anger at our relegation and the manager who had taken us there still in post. Over the course of the meeting LD started to outline her vision for the club and assured us things would get better and there was a long term vision for sustainable performance at the expected level. Despite the relegation issue being raw I left ER feeling infinitely more positive than when I entered.

The beginning of the following season was tough; an away defeat at Alloa sticks in my mind as our then 1st choice striker went down with an obviously serious injury, some guy from Bristol City looked like Bambi on ice and an unfit midfielder called Scott Allan failed to shine. There was some real vitriolic abuse aimed at the team and Paul Heffernan and Stubbs were the main targets. However we picked up pretty quickly and by the end of the season we had deservedly pipped Rangers to 2nd place and the spontaneous applause that broke out with a minute or so to go in the play off 2nd leg was testament to the effort the team and management had put in that season to build something from nothing. Throughout that season everything coming from the club was positive. The AGM was heated but the club got their point over and seemed to win a majority of fans round, various groups visited East Mains and heard a lot of positive messages about recruitment, fitness, nutrition and so on and were impressed. The one take away I always had was that there would be a clear succession plan in place both for managers and players and never again would we be in a position where we required a complete rebuild.

It's hard to fully describe the next few seasons at Hibs. The 2nd league campaign Stubbs had was undoubtedly disappointing however the sheer volume of fixtures we played between January and May has to be considered as mitigation. The cup runs were unbelievable and we came so close to doing something completely unprecedented for a club outside Glasgow in the last 3 decades, The Scottish Cup win was quite literally a once in a lifetime event and launched the feel good factor into overdrive. Stubbs leaving wasn't entirely unexpected but being able to attract a manager with the profile of Neil Lennon was. He started with a gallant display v Brondby and followed it up with another decent SC run and we got the job done in the league. Our return to the top flight was, for half a season, solid and one we should all have been happy with. Then the 2nd half of the season was sensational as we played some brilliant football and remained in contention for 2nd until defeat at Tynecastle.

That brings us up to now. Losing our midfield trio was always going to be tough but, being totally honest, at least 2 of the 3 going was inevitable. Add to that we had a squad that was slowly ageing together and there was a rebuild to be done. Arguably the 1st real test of our structure since the initial squad build when Stubbs took over, the million dollar question is: has it been successful?

I don't really know where it has all gone wrong. On paper many of our summer signings looked solid business, whilst it was a big ask to kick on again this year I expected us to have a squad capable of consolidating our position as top 6 regulars and be right in the mix for 3rd/4th. That hasn't happened. Some of the narrative seems to suggest we 'don't care' or have 'lost our fight' since Lennon left but that's nonsense imo; we have been insipid and flat for much of the season. We are now at a point where we are without a manager, requiring a massive rebuild and struggling to make the top 6. There are stories of fans fighting among themselves, there's a very noticeable split in the fanbase, the club is silent, much of the media and communication that has been a hallmark of the positivity of recent years has completely dried up and we seem to lack any unity, identity or direction.

So where has it all gone wrong? Any system requires all it's parts to be working to a certain level and there must be a blockage somewhere at Hibs. Is changing the head coach the answer or are the problems far more deep rooted? I suppose it will all become apparent between now and the end of the summer window.

For me we changed direction after we won the cup. Rather than continue to think long term and look to organically grow a team we looked for short term instant success. I can understand that as getting promoted was an absolute must, which is why we hired Lennon IMO. Someone ready made to get us over the line at the first time of asking by hook or crook, which he did.

For me, that’s where the short termisim should have began to be phased out. However I’m not sure Lennon is the type of manager that wants to get in potential and let them grow into top players or a top team. He has a very short term outlook, possibly similar to Mourinho in that you get him in for quick success but he’s unlikely to build something for the long term.

Under Stubbs it was clear what the direction and strategy was, sign young talented players and those whose career has stalled. It was enjoyable watching a team grow together despite the trade off in terms of consistency. We felt an affinity to the likes of McGinn, Fyvie, McGeough, Boyle etc. That connection to the players has been lost under a revolving door policy of mass turnover of players each season.

The board also have to take the criticism with the praise. They told us all about how the club was run differently to the previous regime and we were always succession planning, be it manager or player. The evidence over the last few windows doesn’t bare that IMO. We seem to take too long identifying targets each window, or spend too much time with tunnel vision trying to get difficult targets over the line. There’s a fine line between waiting for quality and waiting too long for specific players while others targets then become unavailable. I don’t feel we have the balance right. One of the main criticisms of the previous regime was that they were so disconnected from the support and invisible. We’ve hit the first major and sustained bump in the road and the board need to stand up and not retreat into their shell. Whatever is going on, on the park there’s no excuse not to hear what work we’re doing in the community, what’s happening in the youth teams etc, which appears to be at a bare minimum now.

Lennon is also a character that devides opinion and was a gamble for the board I’m not sure fully paid off. From a footballing point of view he took us back up and into Europe, so despite the utter shambles of this season he was a successful appointment. However he has split the fanbase from day 1. I’d be a hypocrite to say I liked Lennon when he arrived, and still not overly keen on him now. I struggled to separate Lennon the Hibs manager from Lennon the niggly, moany abrasive Celtic player and manager. Some of his behaviour while manager of us hasn’t done anything to warn me to him either (fight with Jim Duffy, losing the plot at Killie, threatening to leave, stopping doing media duties, sustained apparent bullying of Kamberi). There wasn’t ever a middle ground with Lennon he was either a fraud (copyright MWC :greengrin) or a winner. We need a new manager who can unite the support and foster a team spirit in the playing squad again.

[Greenworld]

Aberdeen
Turnover £15.4m
Wages £8.6m

Hibs
Turnover £9.6m
Wages £5.3m

Where are Hibs penny pinching?Why is our turnover so much lower

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

IMO and I absolutely loved NL as manager, but he lost the plot. Ok we had horrendous luck with injuries but team selections/formations/tactics this season has beenbaffling – it’s a wonder anybody knew what their role was it always just seemedpunt it towards Flo and blame him when it never came off. No width, nomidfielder within 40 yards. Just no real game plan – how many players haveplayed more than 10-15 games this season? How many have pulled together a runof 5 games in their preferred position, in a row? You look at Aberdeen, Hearts,Rangers, Celtic I bet they have a core of 7/8 players that are performingconsistently and know exactly what is expected of them. Mallan is our topscorer and tbh his contribution outwith dead balls has been minimal. I’m not necessarilyblaming him but if he’s a luxury player then we need players around him to makeup for it

We assembled a very unbalanced squad for whatever reason,and you can question who makes signings all you like but NL will have had amajor final say on signing any given player so he has to take accountabilityfor it. We were never, ever going to replace DM & SJM in the summer, but wespent a fair chunk in the summer that is going largely ignored. Fees for Flo(who had clubs offering him very good wages so we’ve splashed out ) Mallan,Horgan with loan fees for Bogdan/Agyepong and J-Mac so the notion that we’vebeen sitting on money (or siphoning out to STF depending on your agenda) doesn’twash with me – we’ve signed the wrong players and blown our budget on too manyaverage players
To contradict myself slightly though, the squad we have isbetter than shown. I always liken the situation to that at Man Utd. Shockingman-management led to the players going in to a shell. All of a sudden theyhire someone who put’s his arms around them, gives them freedom and they areflying. We need a positive energy to come in to the dressing room and cheer upthe players. Its partially why I wanted us to sign Cummings for hispersonality.
I think the club need to come out and address the fans nowthough, the fantastic work done since 2014 and the feel good factor is fadingbadly, we need our leadership team to step up and show us their plan, theirvision
A huge rebuild is now required in the summer

[Mango Man]

So many valid factors to our decline this season.

-Something not seeming right with Lennon.

-Not the best recruitment, but on paper looked pretty decent, and we actually paid quite a lot in transfer fees for a change.

-Can't express how flat we have been in midfield since SJM left.

-And the biggest one for me this season is injuries, never seen anything like it, you just can't account for the amount we have had, we don't have the squad depth of a Celtic or Rangers to cover it, the key to Hibs success the last few seasons was having mainly the same 11 playing most weeks, I think we have only managed to play the same 11 2 games in a row once this season.

-Ambrose exit has really affected us, massively.

-Other teams being much better this season also.

Just need to see this season out with as little damage as possible, as the teams above us actually play better as teams than us, we have good individuals that are just not clicking together.

It's our first bad season in a few years, we are never going to be a team that will consistently finish top 4, we should be, but we won't.

[The Green Goblin]

Great post PB. Have you sent it to LD as an e-mail? I think you should.

[Ozyhibby]

Pretty confident that you already know a lot of the extra turnover is because Aberdeen have more "in house" staff than us.

I agree that we need to add outside investment though.

Maybe we need to look at exactly how they do it because they are translating it into a much better football team than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[we are hibs]

We have lost our way a bit. Last few years the whole club has had a bit of a swagger and arrogance (not in a bad way) that we can win the big games. We can go to ibrox and win. We don't buckle when Celtic and rangers come calling for our players. It took time but slowly the fans started to trust the club and players again. Trust that if we had our backs against the wall we could still come out with a result.


I get the sense that trust and swagger has gone. We are no longer going to places like parkhead and ibrox with a real belief of winning. If we go 1 down now people don't think we have the belief to get back into the game. Easter road is no longer a hard place to visit. The atmosphere has went massively downward. The players signed are like the pre relegation days of loans and older players looking for a last pay day

[Jones28]

This reeks of a demoralised dressing room sick of being shouted at by the manager. Plain and simple.

We played some terrific football at the start of this season despite having lost our three most influential players.

There isn't a conspiracy, it's not Rod Petrie pulling strings, it's a dip. That's all.

The test now is how do the club respond? Everyone wants answers - myself included - but we need to make our peace with not knowing what happened with Lennon. All we know is that LD considered it serious enough to warrant suspension and Lennon leaving the club.

Given her track record that is absolutely good enough for me.

[King Dominique]

A few years ago I attended a meeting at ER with our then new Chief Executive. It's fair to say it was a feisty affair; with the noise of a couple of thousand protesting fans outside, a lot of anger at our relegation and the manager who had taken us there still in post. Over the course of the meeting LD started to outline her vision for the club and assured us things would get better and there was a long term vision for sustainable performance at the expected level. Despite the relegation issue being raw I left ER feeling infinitely more positive than when I entered.

The beginning of the following season was tough; an away defeat at Alloa sticks in my mind as our then 1st choice striker went down with an obviously serious injury, some guy from Bristol City looked like Bambi on ice and an unfit midfielder called Scott Allan failed to shine. There was some real vitriolic abuse aimed at the team and Paul Heffernan and Stubbs were the main targets. However we picked up pretty quickly and by the end of the season we had deservedly pipped Rangers to 2nd place and the spontaneous applause that broke out with a minute or so to go in the play off 2nd leg was testament to the effort the team and management had put in that season to build something from nothing. Throughout that season everything coming from the club was positive. The AGM was heated but the club got their point over and seemed to win a majority of fans round, various groups visited East Mains and heard a lot of positive messages about recruitment, fitness, nutrition and so on and were impressed. The one take away I always had was that there would be a clear succession plan in place both for managers and players and never again would we be in a position where we required a complete rebuild.

It's hard to fully describe the next few seasons at Hibs. The 2nd league campaign Stubbs had was undoubtedly disappointing however the sheer volume of fixtures we played between January and May has to be considered as mitigation. The cup runs were unbelievable and we came so close to doing something completely unprecedented for a club outside Glasgow in the last 3 decades, The Scottish Cup win was quite literally a once in a lifetime event and launched the feel good factor into overdrive. Stubbs leaving wasn't entirely unexpected but being able to attract a manager with the profile of Neil Lennon was. He started with a gallant display v Brondby and followed it up with another decent SC run and we got the job done in the league. Our return to the top flight was, for half a season, solid and one we should all have been happy with. Then the 2nd half of the season was sensational as we played some brilliant football and remained in contention for 2nd until defeat at Tynecastle.

That brings us up to now. Losing our midfield trio was always going to be tough but, being totally honest, at least 2 of the 3 going was inevitable. Add to that we had a squad that was slowly ageing together and there was a rebuild to be done. Arguably the 1st real test of our structure since the initial squad build when Stubbs took over, the million dollar question is: has it been successful?

I don't really know where it has all gone wrong. On paper many of our summer signings looked solid business, whilst it was a big ask to kick on again this year I expected us to have a squad capable of consolidating our position as top 6 regulars and be right in the mix for 3rd/4th. That hasn't happened. Some of the narrative seems to suggest we 'don't care' or have 'lost our fight' since Lennon left but that's nonsense imo; we have been insipid and flat for much of the season. We are now at a point where we are without a manager, requiring a massive rebuild and struggling to make the top 6. There are stories of fans fighting among themselves, there's a very noticeable split in the fanbase, the club is silent, much of the media and communication that has been a hallmark of the positivity of recent years has completely dried up and we seem to lack any unity, identity or direction.

So where has it all gone wrong? Any system requires all it's parts to be working to a certain level and there must be a blockage somewhere at Hibs. Is changing the head coach the answer or are the problems far more deep rooted? I suppose it will all become apparent between now and the end of the summer window.



Good Post - I personally believe that the crucial moment where things went wrong was the Summer. A serious lack of investment showed a record support that we don't have ambitions to establish ourselves as a club looking to be a regular in Europe.

[Greencore]

Selling our best players and replacing them with players that are not good enough.

Our defence is stinking too and has been for a long time.
Apart from Porto and the rise of Mackie that is hopeful.

Our midfield no comment

Upfront not good enough.

Would our defenders get into the rangers, Aberdeen, hearts or killie sides?

[Captain Trips]

For me I think Neil Lennon and this is only my opinion just was not into it as much any more at Hibs this term. Yes we lost players but we didnt need to replace like for like we needed to replace players better than some of our peers. It almost felt like an experiment this season and it really for me all came down to the pitch. Injuries didnt help but constant tinkering with formations, players starting or being dropped just for me is really the major factor in this season SPL wise almost a write off in Feburary as far as Europe goes. The tools were there at season start to do better and we haven't.

If Neil didnt think he was getting backed to finish high again at season start then that was the time to say and act on it. For me Neil lennon is the major reason we have struggled this term other teams have lost good players to them.

[My old man]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

Exactly
You can’t lose the 3 amigos and not expect trouble
GGTTH

[BILLYHIBS]

We have lost our way a bit. Last few years the whole club has had a bit of a swagger and arrogance (not in a bad way) that we can win the big games. We can go to ibrox and win. We don't buckle when Celtic and rangers come calling for our players. It took time but slowly the fans started to trust the club and players again. Trust that if we had our backs against the wall we could still come out with a result.


I get the sense that trust and swagger has gone. We are no longer going to places like parkhead and ibrox with a real belief of winning. If we go 1 down now people don't think we have the belief to get back into the game. Easter road is no longer a hard place to visit. The atmosphere has went massively downward. The players signed are like the pre relegation days of loans and older players looking for a last pay day

Agree with most of what you say but in the Cask watching the St Mirren game when we went one nil down I thought to myself “ that’ll be that then” but credit where credit due young Olly came on scored one and made two assists

Never say never!

[Real Emerald]

Good Post - I personally believe that the crucial moment where things went wrong was the Summer. A serious lack of investment showed a record support that we don't have ambitions to establish ourselves as a club looking to be a regular in Europe.

Agree, when the fans turn up in the numbers we did you would think a team like Hibs would have more than two senior strikers (one injured) and a development back up in Shaw. That meant we had to deploy our most potent threat (Boyle) into a strikers position which he was unable to do with any real effect. With the financial backing and record attendances this was a very worrying sign for me. Any injury or suspension to our strikers would leave us in trouble and that turned out to be the case.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why is our turnover so much lower

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Because we subcontract our catering and shop operations. Our turnover only includes our share of the income; Aberdeen's includes 100% of the income.

Consequently, we don't pay wages for those operations; hence why Aberdeeen's wages are so much higher than ours.

[jacomo]

Agree. Our inability to replace our best players is at the root of it all.

There may have been backward steps taken in terms of fans liaison/ communication etc, Im not involved in that so I can only go by what others say, but regardless I think it's just a side issue.

It's all about what happens on the pitch. Our most incisive speedy striker? serious injury, out. Our classiest defender who initiated most of the attacks? Left in the window, out. Midfield trio McGinn McGeough and Scott Allan? Out , and despite we knew they were going, none adequately replaced. Some might say McGinn was always going to be irreplaceable.

No team can survive losing five key players in all areas of the pitch and prosper.

What really grates is the massively increased gate receipts since 2016 should have meant more money for players. The quality of recruitment has clearly been a disappointment since then.


Not for the first time, Hibs failed to properly replace a really important player.

I feel more confident now, because we’ve got more options in central midfield. But it’s 6 months too late.

[G B Young]

It feels as though we've been making steady progress up a mountainside for the last four years and just when it looked as though the peak was in sight we've tumbled almost all the way back down.

Personally I think Lennon wanted a crack at the title. His mentality is such that I think he would have thought that was an outside possibility if he could get the right players in the door, hence the perceived switch in signing strategy. His frustration at not quite making second spot in our first season back up (which let's face it would have been a magnificent achievement) was clear for all to see and as others have pointed out he never quite seemed the same since. He did mention Hibs possibly hitting a 'ceiling' after last season and I'd hazard a guess that the budget restrictions on signings this season led to issues behind the scenes.

I'm all for setting our sights high (something Hibs have been guilty of failing to do far too often), but perhaps we've taken our eye off the ball to some extent when it comes to building, rather than buying, a team. Hearts seem to sign a whole new team pretty much every season to little significant effect, whereas Aberdeen have done their best to build a side over a number of years and have pretty much sewn up second place for a number of seasons.

[ian cruise]

Yes, and this window lost our best player from this season. Always going to struggle to maintain performance levels in that kind of situation, and Lennon appearing to lose interest hasn't helped. Don't think the whole club is necessarily goosed though. Lennon is gone suddenly and we wait to see if there's an improvement like the one we saw after Butcher was gone suddenly.

100% this for me. We lost our 3 most influential players, we replaced them with player who on paper should have the ability to make the difference. Some were prepared to give them time to settle, others not so much. Our manager seemed to be in the latter and hasn't coped with an underperforming team well leading us to where we are now.

I'm a big fan of Lennon's, I thought he did a, good job last season and brought me some great moments as a Hibs fan. That said I was concerned that he would struggle at a club without Celtic's resources and unfortunately looks to be the case. He signed barrow loads of players at Celtic in the hope some of them would be good and we don't have the resources to support that. The volume of players and the type of players (international caps, etc) suggest he was backed but unfortunately we're a club that needs to work with what we have.

I think the frustration of these limitations got to Neil, he's a fiery character and we all know his temperament, and I agree that he lost interest. He talked aloy about being ambitious, both for himself and for the club and that resonates with the fans who want the best for their team so when he walks away a lot feel that is proof the club has no ambition whereas it can be argued that they viewed him as holding the back due to lack of flexibility in regards to working within the structure of a smaller club than Celtic.

Were in a lull, a bad one, but the right man coming in will mean this will all quickly be forgotten about by most with the exception of elements of the fan base who want to club to fail purely so they can say they were right all along.

[The Green Goblin]

Good Post - I personally believe that the crucial moment where things went wrong was the Summer. A serious lack of investment showed a record support that we don't have ambitions to establish ourselves as a club looking to be a regular in Europe.

I would agree completely. It was worrying at the time, but why do you think it happened? What was behind it? Complacency??

The most frustrating thing for me is not just our recent form or league position, it’s that sense of “here we are yet again”, in the seasons immediately following achieving the club’s longest held dream. That is something I find demoralising.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

For me I think Neil Lennon and this is only my opinion just was not into it as much any more at Hibs this term. Yes we lost players but we didnt need to replace like for like we needed to replace players better than some of our peers. It almost felt like an experiment this season and it really for me all came down to the pitch. Injuries didnt help but constant tinkering with formations, players starting or being dropped just for me is really the major factor in this season SPL wise almost a write off in Feburary as far as Europe goes. The tools were there at season start to do better and we haven't.

If Neil didnt think he was getting backed to finish high again at season start then that was the time to say and act on it. For me Neil lennon is the major reason we have struggled this term other teams have lost good players to them.

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

[The 90+2]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

How do you get he wasn’t backed ffs? He’s a winner who left us in the bottom six. Was he a winner at Bolton also? Sick of hearing this **** with no substance whatsoever.

[Not In The Know]

Aberdeen
Turnover £15.4m
Wages £8.6m

Hibs
Turnover £9.6m
Wages £5.3m

Where are Hibs penny pinching?

This Penny pinching Guff needs to stop we are investing as much of our turnover as is sensibly possible.

[CropleyWasGod]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

How much of the fee have we had?

[SquashedFrogg]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

As has been repeatedly pointed out he signed something like 33 players in 2.5 years. Most of whom have been garbage.

I'm very much a Lennon fan, but if he wasn't 'backed', then why did he waste so much money on dross?

For me he lacked a long-term approach, his signings all seemed to be short-term fixes. Plastering over the cracks. Eventually he was found out.

Board backed him. Unfortunately he failed. It happens.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

How do you get he wasn’t backed ffs? He’s a winner who left us in the bottom six. Was he a winner at Bolton also? Sick of hearing this **** with no substance whatsoever.


well where did the money go in our team? Did we pay transfer fee's?...nope Do we pay big wages ?.... nope.

Who care's what he done at Bolton 5 years ago.

[The 90+2]

well where did the money go in our team? Did we pay transfer fee's?...nope Do we pay big wages ?.... nope.

Who care's what he done at Bolton 5 years ago.

Did we not pay money for Kamberi Mallan and Horgan or am I just imagine that? “Winner” Lennon also bottled all our big games.
You called him a winner, look at what he done at Bolton, look at the mess he left us in.

[Kato]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

A bit simplistic and naive, old chap. Trot off and do some homework.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

Did we not pay money for Kamberi Mallan and Horgan or am I just imagine that? “Winner” Lennon also bottled all our big games.
You called him a winner, look at what he done at Bolton, look at the mess he left us in.

So we spent 3 mill on these players?

[CropleyWasGod]

So we spent 3 mill on these players?

How much of the McGinn money have we received?

[The 90+2]

So we spent 3 mill on these players?

Where’s the £3mil coming from? You said we paid no money for players I just named three. You said Lennon wasn’t backed, he signed over 30 players mainly *****.

[The Green Goblin]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

I’m not a happy hibee at the moment, but the idea that NL wasn’t backed in the transfer market is just silly.

[MWHIBBIES]

Anyone expecting Hibs to recieve 3 million in transfer fees and then spend all of it on replacements is having a laugh.

[green day]

well where did the money go in our team? Did we pay transfer fee's?...nope Do we pay big wages ?.... nope.

Who care's what he done at Bolton 5 years ago.

You know, if you come on a Hibs message board, and pass yourself off as a fan, then attack the club for not spending money on fees and salaries - it might be helpful (i.e. you might last a day or two longer) if you had boned up on wee things like facts.

Your knowledge of Hibs transfer fee spend / finances is pretty much zero.................which might lead a cynical man to question you.:agree:

[Leitherhibs]

Anyone expecting Hibs to recieve 3 million in transfer fees and then spend all of it on replacements is having a laugh.

This. Naivety of the highest degree.

[Hiber-nation]

I’m not a happy hibee at the moment, but the idea that NL wasn’t backed in the transfer market is just silly.

Yep, when he said getting Daryl Horgan was a bit of a coup I assumed he was happy with his budget. You'd have to assume the wages we are paying to new recruits are decent given the huge increase in our home support over the past 3-4 years - e.g 7,900 for the Livi game in 2015 compared to over 17,000 this season....not too much of that increase made up of Livi fans!

[The Modfather]

How much of the McGinn money have we received?

Surely it works both ways though. Transfers these days seem increasingly like the bulk of the fee is paid in instalments. So I’d Imagine the fees we did pay (Horgan, Mallan & Kamberi) would also have been paid some up front some in instalments.

I’m not commenting either way as to whether we invested enough in the squad in the summer, just don’t think not having received the bulk of the McGinn money yet should affect our ability to spend it. We know what is coming in and when in instalments so surely we can structure deals in a similar way based on the instalments schedule Villa are paying us.

[JSR1875]

Anyone expecting Hibs to recieve 3 million in transfer fees and then spend all of it on replacements is having a laugh.

Why can't fans expect the money to be reinvested in the squad? Where else should the £3m be spent?

£3m would cover some relatively big wages for a couple of years.

[SquashedFrogg]

Why can't fans expect the money to be reinvested in the squad? Where else should the £3m be spent?

£3m would cover some relatively big wages for a couple of years.

If only so simple. So we spend 3m on relatively big wages for a couple of years? What happens at the end of the couple of years?

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely it works both ways though. Transfers these days seem increasingly like the bulk of the fee is paid in instalments. So I’d Imagine the fees we did pay (Horgan, Mallan & Kamberi) would also have been paid some up front some in instalments.

I’m not commenting either way as to whether we invested enough in the squad in the summer, just don’t think not having received the bulk of the McGinn money up yet should affect our ability to spend it. We know what is coming in and when in instalments so surely we can structure deals in a similar way based on the instalments schedule Villa are paying us.

I agree, but that's my point.

If we only have x% of the SJM money, we can only commit to x% of any outgoing fees.

I'm trying to point out the naivety of the poster who seems to think we had £3m to go out and spend. Then again, he does think that our chair doesn't have a dick. :greengrin

[Carheenlea]

Failing to replace the quality players we lost has cost us on the park. Simple as that. Our ageing defence is the next concern.

Talked about our aging defence at work this morning. It just seems to have aged very quickly over a short space of time, but losing Porteous for season and Ambrose for good has been detrimental.

[Moulin Yarns]

I agree, but that's my point.

If we only have x% of the SJM money, we can only commit to x% of any outgoing fees.

I'm trying to point out the naivety of the poster who seems to think we had £3m to go out and spend. Then again, he does think that our chair doesn't have a dick. :greengrin

My chair has 4 legs. It's quite possible that the poster's chair doesn't have a dick.

[The 90+2]

Why can't fans expect the money to be reinvested in the squad? Where else should the £3m be spent?

£3m would cover some relatively big wages for a couple of years.

We made a loss of £500k last year for a start.

[JSR1875]

If only so simple. So we spend 3m on relatively big wages for a couple of years? What happens at the end of the couple of years?

I'd like to think the quality of our squad would improve, and we may end up with more 'sporting success', fuelling revenue.

May be a simplistic view, but after years of investing in infrastructure - surely now we can invest all available cash in football players?

[The Modfather]

I agree, but that's my point.

If we only have x% of the SJM money, we can only commit to x% of any outgoing fees.

I'm trying to point out the naivety of the poster who seems to think we had £3m to go out and spend. Then again, he does think that our chair doesn't have a dick. :greengrin

Ah gotcha, we can only pay the upfront fee based on the amount of up front fee we received from Villa/have in our budget. We can commit to the full instalments amount Villa are due. Wasn’t meaning to argue the semantics :aok:

Let’s just give Villa their money back and take McGinn back :greengrin

[The 90+2]

I'd like to think the quality of our squad would improve, and we may end up with more 'sporting success', fuelling revenue.

May be a simplistic view, but after years of investing in infrastructure - surely now we can invest all available cash in football players?

How could the quality of squad improve after losing our three best midfielders including our player of the year for nothing? I would have hoped for better transfer wise but you can’t blame the club failing to back the old manager when he was clearly backed and made a tit of if.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.


Yes and no

If we wanted to replace McGinn, would that not have cost us 3 million pounds? Where do we have that sort of money and resource to pay commensurate wages?

So we lost the quality. Yes it is as simple as that. We failed to replace with equivalent quality. Yes, but not so simple to remedy.

[Real Emerald]

I'd like to think the quality of our squad would improve, and we may end up with more 'sporting success', fuelling revenue.

May be a simplistic view, but after years of investing in infrastructure - surely now we can invest all available cash in football players?

Yes, if we can't get the right quality of players after a basically sold out season and £3m of transfer revenue then when can we ever expect to be able to do it. The recruitment is obviously the problem but who is recruiting, that's where the blame lies? I don't think Lennon was scouting players, just picking the best he was being offered. If this is to continue then we will still have the same problem but I really don't know as the club aren't really communicating anything.

[SquashedFrogg]

I'd like to think the quality of our squad would improve, and we may end up with more 'sporting success', fuelling revenue.

May be a simplistic view, but after years of investing in infrastructure - surely now we can invest all available cash in football players?

All available cash - yes, I agree.

I'd suggest our infrastructure costs a substantial amount to maintain, rather than thinking it's all paid up.

I'd be very nervous however, about lumping £3m on wages because you'd 'like to think' or we 'may end up with'.

Pretty risky strategy. I'd prefer to have a good manager who spends wisely, can develop players and has a succession plan across multple seasons.

[The 90+2]

All available cash - yes, I agree.

I'd suggest our infrastructure costs a substantial amount to maintain, rather than thinking it's all paid up.

I'd be very nervous however, about lumping £3m on wages because you'd 'like to think' or we 'may end up with'.

Pretty risky strategy. I'd prefer to have a good manager who spends wisely, can develop players and has a succession plan across multple seasons.

We didn’t even get £3m. A million I think went to St Mirren.

[green day]

We didn’t even get £3m. A million I think went to St Mirren.

Ach, man - away with you and your facts - its all been siphoned off by Tom Farmer, no :greengrin

[heretoday]

The players are rubbish.

[MWHIBBIES]

Why can't fans expect the money to be reinvested in the squad? Where else should the £3m be spent?

£3m would cover some relatively big wages for a couple of years.Name a club in the world who recieves a big fee and immediately spends all of it, every penny, on new players.


A good bit of the money was reinvested in players. More might've been spent in January had Lennon not fallen to bits.

[JSR1875]

All available cash - yes, I agree.

I'd suggest our infrastructure costs a substantial amount to maintain, rather than thinking it's all paid up.

I'd be very nervous however, about lumping £3m on wages because you'd 'like to think' or we 'may end up with'.

Pretty risky strategy. I'd prefer to have a good manager who spends wisely, can develop players and has a succession plan across multple seasons.

I doubt our stadium and training centre cost a substantial figure in terms of maintenance, certainly no more than our rivals.

Is a little bit of speculation really more risky than searching for the perfect manager as you have alluded to?

[Radium]

Last year was hard to replicate and we wanted to do our business early. This was compromised by the club holding out for what we saw as a fair valuation for JM.

Succession of injuries, too many away during international breaks and a management team that seemed to lose it (team selections and relationships with some of the squad).

Fans wise, we have too many that simply don’t support Petrie/ Farmer and are quick to use a downturn in form to put the boot in.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheReg!]

Neil Lennon is ultimately at fault, he signed players that haven’t been that good and imho he lost the dressing room. That’s it, that’s what has gone wrong at Hibs. Time to move on!

[ahibby]

What has gone wrong at Hibs? Quite simply Neil Lennon went wrong in the end and it has been building up for a while, i.e. didn't just happen in the last month or so.

[SquashedFrogg]

I doubt our stadium and training centre cost a substantial figure in terms of maintenance, certainly no more than our rivals.

Is a little bit of speculation really more risky than searching for the perfect manager as you have alluded to?

I wasn't necessarily talking about bricks and mortar. You mentioned infrastructure. There's more to that than leccy bills and a mortgage.

Anyway, throwing cash at a problem is risky IMO.

Hardly the perfect manager. St Johnstone, Motherwell and Kilmarnock have smaller budgets than us. We're 1 point above Livingston.

A good manager will do just fine.

[hibeerealist]

A few years ago I attended a meeting at ER with our then new Chief Executive. It's fair to say it was a feisty affair; with the noise of a couple of thousand protesting fans outside, a lot of anger at our relegation and the manager who had taken us there still in post. Over the course of the meeting LD started to outline her vision for the club and assured us things would get better and there was a long term vision for sustainable performance at the expected level. Despite the relegation issue being raw I left ER feeling infinitely more positive than when I entered.

The beginning of the following season was tough; an away defeat at Alloa sticks in my mind as our then 1st choice striker went down with an obviously serious injury, some guy from Bristol City looked like Bambi on ice and an unfit midfielder called Scott Allan failed to shine. There was some real vitriolic abuse aimed at the team and Paul Heffernan and Stubbs were the main targets. However we picked up pretty quickly and by the end of the season we had deservedly pipped Rangers to 2nd place and the spontaneous applause that broke out with a minute or so to go in the play off 2nd leg was testament to the effort the team and management had put in that season to build something from nothing. Throughout that season everything coming from the club was positive. The AGM was heated but the club got their point over and seemed to win a majority of fans round, various groups visited East Mains and heard a lot of positive messages about recruitment, fitness, nutrition and so on and were impressed. The one take away I always had was that there would be a clear succession plan in place both for managers and players and never again would we be in a position where we required a complete rebuild.

It's hard to fully describe the next few seasons at Hibs. The 2nd league campaign Stubbs had was undoubtedly disappointing however the sheer volume of fixtures we played between January and May has to be considered as mitigation. The cup runs were unbelievable and we came so close to doing something completely unprecedented for a club outside Glasgow in the last 3 decades, The Scottish Cup win was quite literally a once in a lifetime event and launched the feel good factor into overdrive. Stubbs leaving wasn't entirely unexpected but being able to attract a manager with the profile of Neil Lennon was. He started with a gallant display v Brondby and followed it up with another decent SC run and we got the job done in the league. Our return to the top flight was, for half a season, solid and one we should all have been happy with. Then the 2nd half of the season was sensational as we played some brilliant football and remained in contention for 2nd until defeat at Tynecastle.

That brings us up to now. Losing our midfield trio was always going to be tough but, being totally honest, at least 2 of the 3 going was inevitable. Add to that we had a squad that was slowly ageing together and there was a rebuild to be done. Arguably the 1st real test of our structure since the initial squad build when Stubbs took over, the million dollar question is: has it been successful?

I don't really know where it has all gone wrong. On paper many of our summer signings looked solid business, whilst it was a big ask to kick on again this year I expected us to have a squad capable of consolidating our position as top 6 regulars and be right in the mix for 3rd/4th. That hasn't happened. Some of the narrative seems to suggest we 'don't care' or have 'lost our fight' since Lennon left but that's nonsense imo; we have been insipid and flat for much of the season. We are now at a point where we are without a manager, requiring a massive rebuild and struggling to make the top 6. There are stories of fans fighting among themselves, there's a very noticeable split in the fanbase, the club is silent, much of the media and communication that has been a hallmark of the positivity of recent years has completely dried up and we seem to lack any unity, identity or direction.

So where has it all gone wrong? Any system requires all it's parts to be working to a certain level and there must be a blockage somewhere at Hibs. Is changing the head coach the answer or are the problems far more deep rooted? I suppose it will all become apparent between now and the end of the summer window.


Very good post. I think what is troubling a lot of us supporters is IF we cannot compete, in the league and in the securing of young talent for our team after pretty much a season of full houses, when might we be competing in future as the income ain’t going to increase much on what we had coming into this season?

In short, this is as good as it gets for us in terms of income so where do we go from here?

Perhaps NL found the glass ceiling too low who knows.

[ian cruise]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

I'm not sure how Neil Lennon wasn't backed and has been hung out to dry, the man himself claimed he was backed throughout his tenure.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neil-lennon-happier-with-backing-from-hibs-board-vj7snf7ml

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/41188527

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11792/11594609/hibernian-need-major-overhaul-in-january-transfer-window-says-neil-lennon

Edit - apologies posting from phone and not sure how to make links work.

[jacomo]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.


Go away Yam.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

A bit simplistic and naive, old chap. Trot off and do some homework.


"Simplistic" Whats so complicated about it? Why cant we reinvest the money in the team when we are a FOOTBALL TEAM? At least half the money anyways . Where else does the money go? We have a top class stadium and training facilities already.

Can you you tell me where else thee money should be spent?

I'm here to express my opinion, so I will not "trot off" thanks.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

Go away Yam.


is this forum not for debating?

[The 90+2]

I doubt our stadium and training centre cost a substantial figure in terms of maintenance, certainly no more than our rivals.

Is a little bit of speculation really more risky than searching for the perfect manager as you have alluded to?

Hearts rent there's as do Aberdeen. I'm pretty sure maintaining our asset costs more.

[The 90+2]

is this forum not for debating?

You aren't debating though, you're throwing in pipe bombs and when someone gets back to you with actual facts you just ignore them and continue your crusade to rip into the football club we support.

[The 90+2]

"Simplistic" Whats so complicated about it? Why cant we reinvest the money in the team when we are a FOOTBALL TEAM? At least half the money anyways . Where else does the money go? We have a top class stadium and training facilities already.

Can you you tell me where else thee money should be spent?

I'm here to express my opinion, so I will not "trot off" thanks.

We didn't get £3m.
We don't know how much of around £2m was given up front.
We have invested on signing players for actual money plus increasing the wage budget. This has been squandered by our former head coach.

You tell me, what more could we have done?

[SuperSirJMcginn]

I'm not sure how Neil Lennon wasn't backed and has been hung out to dry, the man himself claimed he was backed throughout his tenure.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neil-lennon-happier-with-backing-from-hibs-board-vj7snf7ml

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/41188527

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11792/11594609/hibernian-need-major-overhaul-in-january-transfer-window-says-neil-lennon

Edit - apologies posting from phone and not sure how to make links work.


Yes he may of said this externally, but do you really think that's his real view?

We have the 5th highest wage in the league behind celtic, rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts. Why isn't our wages the same as hearts? They died and spent all there money on a tin stand, but still they out spend us. Its a joke.

These are questions that need to be answered.

[Spudster]

Why is our turnover 50% lower on larger crowds?

I'm amazed someone hasn't suggested (again) that it's because Aberdeen still have in house catering :rolleyes:

[cocteautwin]

Aberdeen
Turnover £15.4m
Wages £8.6m

Hibs
Turnover £9.6m
Wages £5.3m

Where are Hibs penny pinching?

So, Aberdeen spent £3.3m more than Hibs on wages but that £3.3m includes catering staff wages that Hibs don't include. I wonder how much the catering staff wages are for 20 games a season? Can't be more than £1m can it? Are Aberdeen spending £2m more a year on player wages than us? Would be interesting to know but I presume the detail isn't disclosed.

[The 90+2]

Yes he may of said this externally, but do you really think that's his real view?

We have the 5th highest wage in the league behind celtic, rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts. Why isn't our wages the same as hearts? They died and spent all there money on a tin stand, but still they out spend us. Its a joke.

These are questions that need to be answered.

They make more money than us. It's really that simple. They have the foundation of thickos "pledging to "queen anne" every month for Potter to ***** on about 400 players.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

You aren't debating though, you're throwing in pipe bombs and when someone gets back to you with actual facts you just ignore them and continue your crusade to rip into the football club we support.


Fair comment, im trying to take on board what everyone saying. and maybe i'm abit harsh. Im gutted we find ourselves in this position again. I still think questions need to be answered.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

We didn't get £3m.
We don't know how much of around £2m was given up front.
We have invested on signing players for actual money plus increasing the wage budget. This has been squandered by our former head coach.

You tell me, what more could we have done?

Villa had a lot of competition for his signature, why would we agree staggered payments? £3 mill for an English club is nothing, absolute pennies.

"what more could we have done?" Got the money upfront!

[CropleyWasGod]

Villa had a lot of competition for his signature, why would we agree staggered payments? £3 mill for an English club is nothing, absolute pennies.

"what more could we have done?" Got the money upfront!

Did we?

[Cameron1875]

We lost John McGinn and replaced him with a crap winger in Horgan.

We lost Dylan McGeouch and replaced him with Mallan who doesn't track back.

We've not replaced Scott Allan.

Martin Boyle had too many distractions to play well such as becoming a father and holidays (international friendlies) to Australia and Qatar.

Kamberi has had no service from anyone except hoooofs.

Maclaren allegedly wasn't fit yet was fine for the upcoming Asia cup.

Bartley has done his hamstring/groin a couple times.

Milligan came from a semi retirement league to a hectic and difficult league. That must be hard for a 33 year old to adjust to and not really his fault.

Stevenson, Hanlon, Mcgregor and Gray have all been injured.

Efe has left and Porteous is out for the season

Marciano broke his hand so was out for ages including missing pre season.

All in all it's been an absolute disaster! Roll on the summer to sort this utter mess out and I don't envy the new managers task.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

Did we?


Apparently.

[The Harp Awakes]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

Correct + a horrendous injury list hasn't helped.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apparently.

But you don't actually know?

[SuperSirJMcginn]

But you don't actually know?


No, but when I question where the £3 million was spent. ...People in this forum are posting that the money was not received upfront!

so what im saying is ...

If we got 3 mill, where did it go?

If not, why?

[CropleyWasGod]

No, but when I question where the £3 million was spent. ...People in this forum are posting that the money was not received upfront!

so what im saying is ...

If we got 3 mill, where did it go?

If not, why?

No, they're "suggesting", because they... like you.... don't know.

[bigwheel]

No, but when I question where the £3 million was spent. ...People in this forum are posting that the money was not received upfront!

so what im saying is ...

If we got 3 mill, where did it go?

If not, why?

It’s really great you have joined this forum this week and proceeded to cause negativity on the threads you participate in ...it’s almost as if you’re not a Hibs fan .. [emoji102]

[Barman Stanton]

It’s really great you have joined this forum this week and proceeded to cause negativity on the threads you participate in ...it’s almost as if you’re not a Hibs fan .. [emoji102]

Its not even well hidden. Even the user name looks dodgy!

[SuperSirJMcginn]

It’s really great you have joined this forum this week and proceeded to cause negativity on the threads you participate in ...it’s almost as if you’re not a Hibs fan .. [emoji102]


I'm not a fan because i'm raising valid points to debate? Yes I may be negative just now, but its hard to see the positives.

[cocteautwin]

They make more money than us. It's really that simple. They have the foundation of thickos "pledging to "queen anne" every month for Potter to ***** on about 400 players.

They’ve also had an anonymous £10m+ injected in to the club that not many seem to want to question the source of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm not a fan because i'm raising valid points to debate? Yes I may be negative just now, but its hard to see the positives.

I said this yesterday.

Your points become less valid or credible when you mistake our chair's gender.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

They’ve also had an anonymous £10m+ injected in to the club that not many seem to want to question the source of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yea, surely the SFA need to do some sort of digging from a sporting integrity point.

[SuperSirJMcginn]

We lost John McGinn and replaced him with a crap winger in Horgan.

We lost Dylan McGeouch and replaced him with Mallan who doesn't track back.

We've not replaced Scott Allan.

Martin Boyle had too many distractions to play well such as becoming a father and holidays (international friendlies) to Australia and Qatar.

Kamberi has had no service from anyone except hoooofs.

Maclaren allegedly wasn't fit yet was fine for the upcoming Asia cup.

Bartley has done his hamstring/groin a couple times.

Milligan came from a semi retirement league to a hectic and difficult league. That must be hard for a 33 year old to adjust to and not really his fault.

Stevenson, Hanlon, Mcgregor and Gray have all been injured.

Efe has left and Porteous is out for the season

Marciano broke his hand so was out for ages including missing pre season.

All in all it's been an absolute disaster! Roll on the summer to sort this utter mess out and I don't envy the new managers task.

Good post.

Why didn't we replace scott Allan with Scott Allan in January? He could of made all the difference towards the end of this season. This is down the board and not NL.

[Barman Stanton]

Good post.

Why didn't we replace scott Allan with Scott Allan in January? He could of made all the difference towards the end of this season. This is down the board and not NL.

Nothing at all to do with Celtic? Glad we have someone here who was at the discussions. Could you enlighten us how they went??

[cabbageandribs1875]

Good post.

Why didn't we replace scott Allan with Scott Allan in January? He could of made all the difference towards the end of this season. This is down the board and not NL.



there's only two scotty allans






:)

[bigwheel]

I'm not a fan because i'm raising valid points to debate? Yes I may be negative just now, but its hard to see the positives.

lol. This is nothing about your posts. You can have any different view you want. It’s the parody and transparency of your posts that make me laugh - particularly likes the one about flair ..

Perhaps you should talk about how we taught Brazil to play football? Those where the days eh !

I’m betting you last no more than one more week. You’re playing the “I’ll rise above any challenge” tactic just now ..basic opening moves ...

[Peevemor]

Good post.

Why didn't we replace scott Allan with Scott Allan in January? He could of made all the difference towards the end of this season. This is down the board and not NL.

Eddie May said that Celtic would let him go.

Try and wise up on what you're moaning about before coming on here and boring us silly.

[oldbutdim]

Good post.

Why didn't we replace scott Allan with Scott Allan in January? He could of made all the difference towards the end of this season. This is down the board and not NL.

Thanks.

Tried counting sheep but it didn't work for me.
:thumbsup:

[The 90+2]

No, but when I question where the £3 million was spent. ...People in this forum are posting that the money was not received upfront!

so what im saying is ...

If we got 3 mill, where did it go?

If not, why?

We didn't get £3m for McGinn. St Mirren got £1m+

[Ronniekirk]

Failing to replace the quality players we lost has cost us on the park. Simple as that. Our ageing defence is the next concern.

And keeping players who we know have been injury prone over the last few seasons Then signing players on Loan with history of injuries Always a risk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SuperSirJMcginn]

lol. This is nothing about your posts. You can have any different view you want. It’s the parody and transparency of your posts that make me laugh - particularly likes the one about flair ..

Perhaps you should talk about how we taught Brazil to play football? Those where the days eh !

I’m betting you last no more than one more week. You’re playing the “I’ll rise above any challenge” tactic just now ..basic opening moves ...

There's no agenda other than wanting more from the club we all put our money into. I'v been a season ticket holder for 15 odd years and have a right to ask questions. I think I will end my debate on this thread here and im not getting anywhere.

[Keith_M]

For me I think Neil Lennon and this is only my opinion just was not into it as much any more at Hibs this term. Yes we lost players but we didnt need to replace like for like we needed to replace players better than some of our peers. It almost felt like an experiment this season and it really for me all came down to the pitch. Injuries didnt help but constant tinkering with formations, players starting or being dropped just for me is really the major factor in this season SPL wise almost a write off in Feburary as far as Europe goes. The tools were there at season start to do better and we haven't.

If Neil didnt think he was getting backed to finish high again at season start then that was the time to say and act on it. For me Neil lennon is the major reason we have struggled this term other teams have lost good players to them.


Lennon had a tantrum after losing to Hearts at the end of last season and, IMO, seemed to lose a lot of enthusiasm for the club.

Some of his team selections and post match comments this season could only be described as bizarre. Was his heart still in it? Only he could say for definite but there's been a number of hints that it maybe wasn't.

As for replacing our midfield trio: Nobody was expecting a like-for-like replacement but, let's be honest, we should surely have replaced them with better than what we currently have. I honestly don't know who is ultimately responsible for player recruitment but whoever it was hasn't done a particularly good job in the last two windows.

I was happy when we got Flo and McLaren back but Flo hasn't been as productive up front, for whatever reason, as most of us expected and McLaren has been a real disappointment.


As a final comment: I'm not feeling as negative as a lot of others as I think we can, and will, recover from our recent slump. We need to get a decent coach in soon to get the best out of the players we currently have but I'm personally glad the club aren't being hasty about it.

[Diclonius]

What has gone wrong at Hibs?

We're now in our cushy wee safe mid-table position, and the board therefore no longer have to spend big. We invested after relegation because we needed to, everything's fine again. :aok:

[MWHIBBIES]

No, but when I question where the £3 million was spent. ...People in this forum are posting that the money was not received upfront!

so what im saying is ...

If we got 3 mill, where did it go?

If not, why?

Hibs did not just get 3mill into their bank account. We didn't get 3 million in one payment, we haven't spent all of 3 million. We have spent some, paid St Mirren some, are still to recieve some and will still spend some.

[Kato]

"Simplistic" Whats so complicated about it? Why cant we reinvest the money in the team when we are a FOOTBALL TEAM? At least half the money anyways . Where else does the money go? We have a top class stadium and training facilities already.

Can you you tell me where else thee money should be spent?

I'm here to express my opinion, so I will not "trot off" thanks.

Some of that is answered in posts above the one I replying to. Some and all and all and some of these questions are answered on this forum on a weekly basis. If you feel a need to express your opinion you should really do some reading first before writing down all your angry questions as failing to do so just makes your opinion seem, like many opinions on the internet, a loady auld guff coming from either a troll or someone who is permanently angry and can never be reasoned with. So trot off and do some reading before your opinion gets cold.

[SquashedFrogg]

What has gone wrong at Hibs?

We're now in our cushy wee safe mid-table position, and the board therefore no longer have to spend big. We invested after relegation because we needed to, everything's fine again. :aok:

Pathetic effort.

[green day]

I said this yesterday.

Your points become less valid or credible when you mistake our chair's gender.

Aye, spotted the same. The guy isnt even being transparent or bright.

Wonder if the admins are just keeping him for sport? Taking our minds off the crap situation at ER :thumbsup:

[ian cruise]

Yes he may of said this externally, but do you really think that's his real view?

We have the 5th highest wage in the league behind celtic, rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts. Why isn't our wages the same as hearts? They died and spent all there money on a tin stand, but still they out spend us. Its a joke.

These are questions that need to be answered.

I can't tell you if he was lying when he said that, only Neil Lennon can. I took him at his word, as that's all you can do in these situations.

Hearts and rangers dumped their debt while we continue to pay ours off. We invested in infrastructure which Aberdeen still have the pain of doing so. Aberdeen and Hearts seem to have external parties happy to plough money in to the club where as we unfortunately don't and we live off the money we bring in. I think those questions are answered every time we publish our annual accounts are they not?

[ian cruise]

There's no agenda other than wanting more from the club we all put our money into. I'v been a season ticket holder for 15 odd years and have a right to ask questions. I think I will end my debate on this thread here and im not getting anywhere.

The AGM would have been the place to ask these questions, did you not think to do so then?

[SuperSirJMcginn]

The AGM would have been the place to ask these questions, did you not think to do so then?


and not a forum designed for fans to debate?

[houstonhibbee]

We'll probably never know but we must start putting it right by getting the manager appointment right to get the feel good factor back asap

[HibbyScott]

and not a forum designed for fans to debate?

The problem with trying to do a deep dive into financials on a forum is that no-one, not one single person, actually knows any of the answers whatsoever.

It's all conjecture and guess work from everyone. We might have got £3m up front for McGinn and immediately given St Mirren their share. We might have got 50p up front and immediately given St Mirren their 16.5p. The reality is PROBABLY somewhere in the middle.

All we can really know for sure is that our wages/turnover ratio is in the same ballpark as Aberdeen. 55% is a sustainable level for that. And until we can find whatever magic bullet it is to increase our turnover up to Aberdeen's level we are going to have to continue to back whichever manager we have in place to the best of our ability without ending up running the risk of a situation which saw Rangers fans lose their club, and Hearts fans having to chuck endless money at the only show in town to save theirs.

[Captain Trips]

Neil lennon is a winner to say he's "not into as much" is a joke. The bottom line, is that the board have lacked ambition and didn't back him in the transfer market. We have a record amount of season tickets - where has our money gone? Where has Mcginn's money gone? ... a midfielder who doesn't get a game for Mothwerwell?

Neil has been hung out to dry by the club and it's really not good enough. Leanne now needs to clear up this mess.

I am going to come back to you on your reply above to my post. IMO after the Hearts game last season for me his comments did not suggest somebody 100% and ready to galvanise and move upward. I have been far from impressed by some team selections and tactics employed at times. If I am the only one fine but keekaboo also eluded to it in an earlier post but for me Neil lennon this season was not the Neil Lennon of previous seasons.

Neil Lennon for me isnt interested in finishing 4th and it being deemed a success that is what I think. He wants to be Number one and if that is not going to happen I believe the interest is lost. We hired him and he had the chance to be No1 and we won the title and he was No1. Ee even pushed on last season but was it really enough for him? Perhaps he thought it was.

Neil Lennon has not been hung out to dry at all by Hibs in fact all the conjecture and nonsense has for me hid the point we were doing badly in the league as people were focused on other things.

Was at the start of this season our budget better than:

Killie?
Motherwell?
Stjohnstone?

If the answer is yes which it will be to all those 3 then there is no excuse to complain about backing. If we were 5th behind Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen and Hearts and pushing you could argue the point that with a bit more investiment we could have pushed more but to not even be above the teams in list above tells me on the park it has not went right and that is down to managers and players.

[judas]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

Yes. More or less agree.

[hibsbollah]

The problem with trying to do a deep dive into financials on a forum is that no-one, not one single person, actually knows any of the answers whatsoever.

It's all conjecture and guess work from everyone. We might have got £3m up front for McGinn and immediately given St Mirren their share. We might have got 50p up front and immediately given St Mirren their 16.5p. The reality is PROBABLY somewhere in the middle.

All we can really know for sure is that our wages/turnover ratio is in the same ballpark as Aberdeen. 55% is a sustainable level for that. And until we can find whatever magic bullet it is to increase our turnover up to Aberdeen's level we are going to have to continue to back whichever manager we have in place to the best of our ability without ending up running the risk of a situation which saw Rangers fans lose their club, and Hearts fans having to chuck endless money at the only show in town to save theirs.

There's a middle ground between being frugal on one hand and doing a Rangers or a Hearts and getting into a catastrophic financial hole on the other, surely you must see that? Making it a binary choice is insulting people's intelligence.

[CropleyWasGod]

The problem with trying to do a deep dive into financials on a forum is that no-one, not one single person, actually knows any of the answers whatsoever.

It's all conjecture and guess work from everyone. We might have got £3m up front for McGinn and immediately given St Mirren their share. We might have got 50p up front and immediately given St Mirren their 16.5p. The reality is PROBABLY somewhere in the middle.

All we can really know for sure is that our wages/turnover ratio is in the same ballpark as Aberdeen. 55% is a sustainable level for that. And until we can find whatever magic bullet it is to increase our turnover up to Aberdeen's level we are going to have to continue to back whichever manager we have in place to the best of our ability without ending up running the risk of a situation which saw Rangers fans lose their club, and Hearts fans having to chuck endless money at the only show in town to save theirs.

I think some stuff has to be made an admin sticky when it comes to the financials. It would help save my knitting being ripped so often 😁

Once again..The only way we can match Aberdeen's turnover is to bring our catering and shop operations in-house. With the consequent hike in wages, stock costs and overheads.

[SRHibs]

How do you get he wasn’t backed ffs? He’s a winner who left us in the bottom six. Was he a winner at Bolton also? Sick of hearing this **** with no substance whatsoever.

He’s a winner because he goes in a huff if he loses. It’s the sign of all great winners!

[Lago]

I think some stuff has to be made an admin sticky when it comes to the financials. It would help save my knitting being ripped so often 😁

Once again..The only way we can match Aberdeen's turnover is to bring our catering and shop operations in-house. With the consequent hike in wages, stock costs and overheads.

And bring an American sugar daddy on board.

[CropleyWasGod]

And bring an American sugar daddy on board.

That wouldny be turnover.....😤

[green day]

That wouldny be turnover.....😤

You could do a PowerPoint presentation, with sections on turnover, Ponzi schemes and the like?🤣

[CropleyWasGod]

You could do a PowerPoint presentation, with sections on turnover, Ponzi schemes and the like?🤣

That'll be well-attended.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think some stuff has to be made an admin sticky when it comes to the financials. It would help save my knitting being ripped so often 😁

Once again..The only way we can match Aberdeen's turnover is to bring our catering and shop operations in-house. With the consequent hike in wages, stock costs and overheads.

Aberdeen’s turnover is roughly £6m more than ours.

I wonder how much they charge for a pie or replica strip if they’re making that much more than us just from this.

They could probably reach Mike Ashley a thing or two about retail.

[ian cruise]

and not a forum designed for fans to debate?

You can only have intelligent debate if the points of view are researched and factually accurate, otherwise its all pure conjecture and just people shouting opinions. However you asked a specific question, one that no one here can give you an accurate answer to but the board at the AGM would have. However let's be honest, we could have provided you with unlimited proof the club had done everything correctly and all money was appropriately spent and you would chose to disbelieve it and claim it was all lies as you're not really looking for a debate you just want to make loud noises and wind up fans

[CropleyWasGod]

Aberdeen’s turnover is roughly £6m more than ours.

I wonder how much they charge for a pie or replica strip if they’re making that much more than us just from this.

They could probably reach Mike Ashley a thing or two about retail.

Their commercial income was £5.8m last season. I can't see what the related costs are.

Using their published wage percentage of 55%, and stock costs of say 25%, that doesn't leave much for overheads and profit.

I've no idea how much Hibs' comparable share is.

[Bangkok Hibby]

We lost John McGinn and replaced him with a crap winger in Horgan.

We lost Dylan McGeouch and replaced him with Mallan who doesn't track back.

We've not replaced Scott Allan.

Martin Boyle had too many distractions to play well such as becoming a father and holidays (international friendlies) to Australia and Qatar.

Kamberi has had no service from anyone except hoooofs.

Maclaren allegedly wasn't fit yet was fine for the upcoming Asia cup.

Bartley has done his hamstring/groin a couple times.

Milligan came from a semi retirement league to a hectic and difficult league. That must be hard for a 33 year old to adjust to and not really his fault.

Stevenson, Hanlon, Mcgregor and Gray have all been injured.

Efe has left and Porteous is out for the season

Marciano broke his hand so was out for ages including missing pre season.

All in all it's been an absolute disaster! Roll on the summer to sort this utter mess out and I don't envy the new managers task.

All this plus despite the Lennon love in I believe we had a manager who's ambition and ability to talk a good job outweighed his actual competence

[bigwheel]

We lost John McGinn and replaced him with a crap winger in Horgan.

We lost Dylan McGeouch and replaced him with Mallan who doesn't track back.

We've not replaced Scott Allan.

Martin Boyle had too many distractions to play well such as becoming a father and holidays (international friendlies) to Australia and Qatar.

Kamberi has had no service from anyone except hoooofs.

Maclaren allegedly wasn't fit yet was fine for the upcoming Asia cup.

Bartley has done his hamstring/groin a couple times.

Milligan came from a semi retirement league to a hectic and difficult league. That must be hard for a 33 year old to adjust to and not really his fault.

Stevenson, Hanlon, Mcgregor and Gray have all been injured.

Efe has left and Porteous is out for the season

Marciano broke his hand so was out for ages including missing pre season.

All in all it's been an absolute disaster! Roll on the summer to sort this utter mess out and I don't envy the new managers task.

Actually not a bad summary this - gives some context to why this season has been really disappointing.....

[Kato]

Aberdeen’s turnover is roughly £6m more than ours.

I wonder how much they charge for a pie or replica strip if they’re making that much more than us just from this.

They could probably reach Mike Ashley a thing or two about retail.


Turnover isn't profit.

[Scotty Leither]

I think some stuff has to be made an admin sticky when it comes to the financials. It would help save my knitting being ripped so often 😁

Once again..The only way we can match Aberdeen's turnover is to bring our catering and shop operations in-house. With the consequent hike in wages, stock costs and overheads.

Or get another company in to improve the catering, Behind the goals and the whole matchday experience for the ordinary punter, and maybe take on or two of the ideas put forward on here and not just look at the bottom line every time and eschew the accountant's mantra of "price of everything and value of nothing" and all that?

Spend a wee bit more on the product and rake in a deal more for bigger take-up of the product?

"Exponential growth" I think they call it in the accountancy manuals...

[CropleyWasGod]

Or get another company in to improve the catering, Behind the goals and the whole matchday experience for the ordinary punter, and maybe take on or two of the ideas put forward on here and not just look at the bottom line every time and eschew the accountant's mantra of "price of everything and value of nothing" and all that?

Spend a wee bit more on the product and rake in a deal more for bigger take-up of the product?

"Exponential growth" I think they call it in the accountancy manuals...

I've no idea what they call it, as I don't read them.

The point of my post was to explain, yet again, why our turnover is so much less than that of Aberdeen and Hearts

[Famous Fiver]

What's gone wrong at Hibs?

Win our next three league matches, beat Raith in the Cup, get another home draw, new manager, Scott Allan on the way and hey ho, we are back in clover.

My glass is half full, not half emopty.

Tin hat firmly on.

[makaveli1875]

Questions need asked of our board why we can’t match the turnover of Aberdeen when we have bigger crowds?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is it not the case that a good chunk of Aberdeens 'turn over' is rich sheep ****gers pumping money in similar to Hearts mystery benefactors

[The Green Goblin]

All this plus despite the Lennon love in I believe we had a manager who's ambition and ability to talk a good job outweighed his actual competence

Agreed.

[Scotty Leither]

Is it not the case that a good chunk of Aberdeens 'turn over' is rich sheep ****gers pumping money in similar to Hearts mystery benefactors

Do HSL do anything like a "HSL 100" club? If anyone puts up a £100 a month you would get hospitality free plus a couple of guests for say, a derby game for instance? Can't be too hard to market something like that surely?

On a wider point, I maintain that our Directors should be getting tasked to tap up the wider business community for investment, otherwise what is the actual function of the directors?

Naming rights for the stadium - has that been explored?

Rock Star North are a mutinational company on our doorstep - have the Board invited them in for a chat?

Any of us on here that recommend the Board think a bit bigger are shot down in flames and asked for ideas as to how we would achieve greater investment - well there's three starters for ten I've given you above - feel free to add.

[ian cruise]

Do HSL do anything like a "HSL 100" club? If anyone puts up a £100 a month you would get hospitality free plus a couple of guests for say, a derby game for instance? Can't be too hard to market something like that surely?

On a wider point, I maintain that our Directors should be getting tasked to tap up the wider business community for investment, otherwise what is the actual function of the directors?

Naming rights for the stadium - has that been explored?

Rock Star North are a mutinational company on our doorstep - have the Board invited them in for a chat?

Any of us on here that recommend the Board think a bit bigger are shot down in flames and asked for ideas as to how we would achieve greater investment - well there's three starters for ten I've given you above - feel free to add.

I think the last few weeks have shown the board have had a lot o their plate over the last few years trying to focus on what's happening on the pitch but you're right the are definitely still other areas we could improve on.

The ideas you've raised are all good, hopefully something one of the fans reps could pick up, or possibly the working together group if it still exists.

We talk a lot about Leeann and what she has/hasn't done but there are other members on the board, surely some of them could step up and pick up the baton for some of this stuff, including the communication we seem to be missing?

[WhileTheChief..]

Turnover isn't profit.

I never mentioned profit.

Are you suggesting that Aberdeen took in £6m more than us in one season from pies and shop merchandise?

If that is true that is flipping amazing on their part.

It means that they sell more through catering and merchandise than a lot of other clubs turnover.

We should be copying them if thats the case no?

[WhileTheChief..]

Their commercial income was £5.8m last season. I can't see what the related costs are.

Using their published wage percentage of 55%, and stock costs of say 25%, that doesn't leave much for overheads and profit.

I've no idea how much Hibs' comparable share is.

Commercial income would include tv money, pitch side advertising, shirt sponsorship etc I’d have thought?

Are you saying that these things are separate?

I’m struggling to accept that £5.8m came from catering and club merchandise.

[CropleyWasGod]

Commercial income would include tv money, pitch side advertising, shirt sponsorship etc I’d have thought?

Are you saying that these things are separate?

I’m struggling to accept that £5.8m came from catering and club merchandise.

Aberdeen show their sponsorship and advertising income separately at £2m


For comparison, their wages are £8.5m, ours are £5.3m.

[WhileTheChief..]

You lost me.

You said that Aberdeen’s turnover is higher cause of in house catering and merchandising.

I’m questioning if that is all it’s down to.

[King Dominique]

Good post.

Why didn't we replace scott Allan with Scott Allan in January? He could of made all the difference towards the end of this season. This is down the board and not NL.

I agree with that point. The failing of not getting Scott Allan back lies at the feet of our board. There are cliques of what I imagine to be balding, Carling drinking brexit supporting middle aged fuds all over this forum who will bleat like the sheep in Animal farm if you question there magnificent leader Petrie. Then cliques will appear calling you a Yam reminiscent to the snarling pups trained by Napoleon who shares several character traits with our chairman. The main one being the are both fat greedy pigs profiting from the labour of others.

[CropleyWasGod]

You lost me.

You said that Aberdeen’s turnover is higher cause of in house catering and merchandising.

I’m questioning if that is all it’s down to.

I didn't say that it's "all" it's down to. They are more successful than us on the park, therefore their playing income is higher. That bit has to be self-evident.

The question was put as to why their turnover is so much more than ours. The fundamental reason for that is the way the respective businesses are structured.

[Caversham Green]

You lost me.

You said that Aberdeen’s turnover is higher cause of in house catering and merchandising.

I’m questioning if that is all it’s down to.

They finished in second place in the league and we finished fourth - that's probably a couple of million. They also had a couple of European ties - another fair chunk there.

[CropleyWasGod]

I agree with that point. The failing of not getting Scott Allan back lies at the feet of our board. There are cliques of what I imagine to be balding, Carling drinking brexit supporting middle aged fuds all over this forum who will bleat like the sheep in Animal farm if you question there magnificent leader Petrie. Then cliques will appear calling you a Yam reminiscent to the snarling pups trained by Napoleon who shares several character traits with our chairman. The main one being the are both fat greedy pigs profiting from the labour of others.

So Rod has a tiny cock?

Who knew?

[Gettin' Auld]

So Rod has a tiny cock?

Who knew?

Mrs Petrie?

[Captain Trips]

I agree with that point. The failing of not getting Scott Allan back lies at the feet of our board. There are cliques of what I imagine to be balding, Carling drinking brexit supporting middle aged fuds all over this forum who will bleat like the sheep in Animal farm if you question there magnificent leader Petrie. Then cliques will appear calling you a Yam reminiscent to the snarling pups trained by Napoleon who shares several character traits with our chairman. The main one being the are both fat greedy pigs profiting from the labour of others.

This has FA to do with Petrie whom I am no fan of at all. Our league position is unacceptable yes it "might" have improved if Allan came in but up until the point we signed him our league form has been not good enough and that is the managers fault. Scott Allan should have been signing for a club pushing for Europe in January not struggling to even be a top 6 side. We need look no further than the manager and players for that.

[Captain Trips]

Neil Lennon just didnt want to manage a team that 3rd or 4th is deemed a success that is what I believe and for me his heart just was not in it like when he first joined when he did have that chance to finish top. A lot of it all just looked half arsed with line ups and imbalance. This has probably led to frustrations etc.

Thats my take anyways.

[CropleyWasGod]

This has FA to do with Petrie whom I am no fan of at all. Our league position is unacceptable yes it "might" have improved if Allan came in but up until the point we signed him our league form has been not good enough and that is the managers fault. Scott Allan should have been signing for a club pushing for Europe in January not struggling to even be a top 6 side. We need look no further than the manager and players for that.

I am hoping that the post you quote was in jest. :greengrin

[Kato]

I never mentioned profit.

Are you suggesting that Aberdeen took in £6m more than us in one season from pies and shop merchandise?

If that is true that is flipping amazing on their part.

It means that they sell more through catering and merchandise than a lot of other clubs turnover.

We should be copying them if thats the case no?

Sorry, bud you said?

"Aberdeen’s turnover is roughly £6m more than ours.

I wonder how much they charge for a pie or replica strip if they’re making that much more than us just from this."


..so you did sort of infer that was profit.

I'm not suggesting anything regarding making more from pies or strips than us, just that Aberdeen have a different working strategy than ours which increases their turnover and that it can't really be compared to our system and that an increased turnover doesn't mean that they automatically made more money than Hibs.

[IWasThere2016]

We lost and failed to replace our 3 best midfielders, and arguably, 3 best players from last season. I really think it's that simple.

Yup.. plus some serious injuries


Aberdeen have someone with considerable wealth pumping money into the club do they not?

And ours have previously, and won't again (understandably)


The true test of income:wages would be income:coaches and playing staff and not all wages

[heid the baw]

It's not so much of a case of "what has gone wrong at Hibs?" more a case of things very occasionally going right. The tornados, the golden generation, the cup win, Lenny and that dynamic midfield in a team that all managed to stayed fit and available for the majority of a season.
Like many I fear that we could be heading for more banality. Hope I'm wrong, but I feel we have lost a spark with lennon's departure.

[WhileTheChief..]

They finished in second place in the league and we finished fourth - that's probably a couple of million. They also had a couple of European ties - another fair chunk there.

Agreed. I’d go further and suggest that that has more baring on their turnover than the catering and merchandise.

[CropleyWasGod]

Agreed. I’d go further and suggest that that has more baring on their turnover than the catering and merchandise.

Not "more". If the difference in turnover is £6m, and the playing income accounts for £2m of that, the commercial side must be £4m.

[Brizo]

[QUOTE=heid the baw;5702159]It's not so much of a case of "what has gone wrong at Hibs?" more a case of things very occasionally going right. The tornados, the golden generation, the cup win, Lenny and that dynamic midfield in a team that all managed to stayed fit and available for the majority of a season.
Like many I fear that we could be heading for more banality. Hope I'm wrong, but I feel we have lost a spark with lennon's departure.[/QUOTE

That's the reality of it and it doesn't seem to matter who the owner or manager is.

In 50 years of watching Hibs, we seem incapable of ever sustaining any success (and by that I mean relative success ie 3 or 4 successive seasons in top 2 or 3)

I caught the Tornadoes as a wee boy, Skol Cup and very occasional good stuff under Miller, McLeish, the CIS Cup,one entertaining season under Yogi, Mowbray, Stubbsy and the Cup, last season under Lennon. To use a weather analogy they have been brief sunny times with a lot more dismal times

Hibs in my lifetime have been consistently inconsistent. How that changes I don't know but its beaten various owners and countless managers.

[Jim44]

[QUOTE=heid the baw;5702159]It's not so much of a case of "what has gone wrong at Hibs?" more a case of things very occasionally going right. The tornados, the golden generation, the cup win, Lenny and that dynamic midfield in a team that all managed to stayed fit and available for the majority of a season.
Like many I fear that we could be heading for more banality. Hope I'm wrong, but I feel we have lost a spark with lennon's departure.[/QUOTE

That's the reality of it and it doesn't seem to matter who the owner or manager is.

In 50 years of watching Hibs, we seem incapable of ever sustaining any success (and by that I mean relative success ie 3 or 4 successive seasons in top 2 or 3)

I caught the Tornadoes as a wee boy, Skol Cup and very occasional good stuff under Miller, McLeish, the CIS Cup,one entertaining season under Yogi, Mowbray, Stubbsy and the Cup, last season under Lennon. To use a weather analogy they have been brief sunny times with a lot more dismal times

Hibs in my lifetime have been consistently inconsistent. How that changes I don't know but its beaten various owners and countless managers.

This is a bit how I feel. We seem to have some sort of congenital malfunction which raises it’s head at regular intervals, no matter how good or poor our players and managers are. Must be something in the Leith water. :greengrin

[Hibs1969]

Our failure to replace our midfield from last year has been by far the biggest, but not the only factor in our current malaise. We've never got the balance right since early season and it's badly affected us. Kamberi and Shaw are getting very poor service and are struggling as a result. MacLaren looked completely off the boil this term.

I'm not buying into this 'the board failed to invest' thing. We splashed out on Mallan and Kamberi for starters. Things had clearly not been right with Lennon for a while, but for me the main factor has been our chronic injury list. At one stage or another all of Marciano, Bogdan, Gray, McGregor, Hanlon, Whittaker, Stevenson, Bartley, Boyle, Porteous, Kamberi, Agpeyong, MacLaren and Horgan (I may have missed some) have been out due to injury. How are we meant to have a settled team or formation with that injury list? We started off ok and there have been some highlights such as the European qualifiers, beating Celtic and putting 6 past Hamilton but they have been few and far between.

We desperately need a new head coach, some stability and some confidence back.