Players Backing Lennon

[Unseen work]

Since he has left a lot of players and pundits appear to be backing Lennon a lot.

Marciano earlier today singing his praises and now McLaren saying Lennon leaving made up his decision to leave also.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-lennon-sacked-thats-left-13950112

What has actually happened at our club? Seems bizarre so many people are singing Lennons praises especially players.

Does anyone have any insight?

[Mango Man]

Surprised to see Maclaren say this, as I thought he'd had some kind of falling out with Lennon himself, hence the lack of game time.

[SaulGoodman]

Mclaren left because he was pish and wasn’t getting a game. He’s just making it sound like Lennon leaving was the reason behind his choice. Seems to me he jumped before he was pushed

[cleanyman]

Lenny is just like most managers.

Popular with many, unpopular with some.

[G15 Hibs]

First of all I know nothing, however I'd imagine if players are asked by journalists, as they're bound to be, how they found working with Lennon they're never going to say anything detrimental. After all, their paths could cross again in future. No one wants to burn bridges.

[Hibbyradge]

They're saying he was a good manager, not that he shouldn't have gone.

Maclaren's one line comment looks like it's been taken wholly out of context.

His transfer to Melbourne was being worked on well before NL lost his job and it was discussed on here.

[Rumble de Thump]

Players saying something positive about Lennon is not the same as 'backing' him. Even the club's directors acknowledged his achievements in their statement.

[Jack]

McLaren was already heavily linked with and itching for a move back to Oz before Black Friday! I'm not sure how that rings true.

I'm not surprised players saying he was good, he was. Particularly when things were going well.

[jacomo]

Football omertà.

Not in anyone’s interest to wash dirty linen in public I guess.

And yes Lenny is a good manager. But it seems like he decided to chuck it rather than work to fix the problems. A great shame.

[oldbutdim]

Since he has left a lot of players and pundits appear to be backing Lennon a lot.

Marciano earlier today singing his praises and now McLaren saying Lennon leaving made up his decision to leave also.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-lennon-sacked-thats-left-13950112

What has actually happened at our club? Seems bizarre so many people are singing Lennons praises especially players.

Does anyone have any insight?


Bit of a scoop in that article. It seems Hibs goal was later chalked off as we were beaten 0-2 by the Sheepies.
:cb

[Wee Effen Bee]

Since he has left a lot of players and pundits appear to be backing Lennon a lot.

Marciano earlier today singing his praises and now McLaren saying Lennon leaving made up his decision to leave also.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-lennon-sacked-thats-left-13950112

What has actually happened at our club? Seems bizarre so many people are singing Lennons praises especially players.

Does anyone have any insight?

Funny how the DR are still promoting the, ‘Lennon was wronged’ agenda...or is it? Any DR story about Hibs at the moment has an anti-board slant. Of course the players are saying Lennon was a good manager, none will go into print saying he is a nightmare. None have said he shouldn’t have gone either. I wonder why they haven’t interviewed Flo with the same questions? His answers wouldn’t suit their agenda obviously.

[BILLYHIBS]

I was under the impression Kamberi and Jamie MAC had a falling out with Lenny

Very surprised but intrigued to read this

Noticed the DR can’t even get Saturdays match result correct

EEN take on things

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/jamie-maclaren-leaves-hibs-and-completes-move-to-melbourne-city-1-4865767

[ScottB]

Ultimately, the rumour was the players complained about him etc as we saw on here and in the media, accusations of them being soft and what not started flying.

So, is it in their interest to come out and say something nice about him? Perhaps they are wanting to ensure they aren’t tarred with any brushes, particularly Maclaren, who being out the door can largely say whatever he wants.

[Peevemor]

In Lennon's last interview (the morning of his suspension) he spoke about trying to bring 2 strikers in. I took that as confirmation of the rumours of McLaren leaving.

[Hibernian32]

McLaren = gob *****

[H18S NX]

Reading between the lines in the Scotsman,Danny Swanson didnae seem too complimentary.

[Hibbyradge]

"Australian striker Maclaren had told Hibs that he wanted to leave following a fall-out with former head coach Neil Lennon and a lack of regular first-team football."

Read more at: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/jamie-maclaren-leaves-hibs-and-completes-move-to-melbourne-city-1-4865767

[oldbutdim]

Leeann must have tipped Jamie off that she was going to suspend Lennon in a couple of weeks, because that's how long he has been negotiating his move to Melbourne.
:confused:

Pretty desperate stories being made up now.

[brog]

Surprised to see Maclaren say this, as I thought he'd had some kind of falling out with Lennon himself, hence the lack of game time.
As per EEN. The DR is a weegie monstrosity.

Australian striker Maclaren had told Hibs that he wanted to leave following a fall-out with former head coach Neil Lennon and a lack of regular first-team football

[The Spaceman]

God I cannot wait for the day when I can toast a beer to the Daily Record and its associated trash papers closing their doors for the final time.

[Sheffhibee]

What a load of nonsense Jamie Mac must have a crystal ball, he was making all the noises about a return to Oz weeks before Lennon went. Face it mate you weren't up to the job. Bit of a pattern developing with him in recent times:flag:

[The 90+2]

McLaren = gob *****

Not really. The media have make up a story to make their pal look good. It also makes it look a lot better for McLaren. Good luck to the guy.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Hibs are lucky to be even mentioned as a crossword clue in the DR normally. The cynic in me, says that playing to the Celtc readers with another all against Lennon story comes with no real risks, and should Brenda leave Celtc Park anytime soon, Lennon would be on the list to replace him, so no harm in getting the tongue in quickly.

[Jim44]

God I cannot wait for the day when I can toast a beer to the Daily Record and its associated trash papers closing their doors for the final time.

Make mine a nice wee malt. :aok:

[BlackSheep]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

[EskbankHibby]

Staggering piece of opportunistic revisionism there.

What a rag that paper is.

[MyJo]

Maclaren's persistent back injury causing him to miss games for us yet still be available when Australia needed him was, I assumed, one of the people Lennon was referring to when he spoke about players not doing enough to recover from their injuries. As has also been mentioned there was talk of MacLaren going back to the A-League before the Lennon situation happened. Seems to me like a bit of face saving from him to say that was a catalyst for him leaving rather than the fact he was a complete waste of a wage for half a season.

I have no doubt that a number of the players will have enjoyed working under Lennon, he's a good manager and probably a good coach. The problem has been his volatile temperament and off-field issues. Whatever has led to Lennon going has been what happened in that meeting with Dempster.

She doesn't strike me as someone incapable of standing up for herself or prone to making rash decisions so the fact that she has decided to immediately suspend Lennon and has, very deliberately IMO, avoided speaking publically on the matter since suggests to me that Lennon's anger and behaviour has been directed towards Dempster in an unacceptable and possibly personal way.

There three scenarios being played out here by the media's coverage of this.

1 - They are simply making stuff up and making it as controversial as possible in order to sell more papers.

2 - They know nothing but are accepting rumours as facts and feel that printing negative stuff about Hibs as a club and the board will go down better with their readership than it would to do the same about Lennon.

3 - They are backing Lennon. Either they have an off-the-record breakdown of what happened from him which will be a very skewed and biased version of events or regardless of what he actually done the journalists and pundits that are friendly with him from his time at Celtic or as a pundit himself are circling the wagons around him and being very deliberate and vindictive in their reporting.

[Peevemor]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

Nonsense. Hibs generally aim to break even. The odd times there's been a profit have been down to good cup runs and/or a decent player sale. The higher the club's turnover, the more money that's put back into the playing budget - as backed up by the annual accounts.

[Rumble de Thump]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

I love how you twisted what was said to meet you own agenda.

[Pretty Boy]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

Does the bit in bold not apply to just about every club in the entire world?

[HoboHarry]

What does it matter? It's over and it's time to move on.....

[FilipinoHibs]

Maclaren's persistent back injury causing him to miss games for us yet still be available when Australia needed him was, I assumed, one of the people Lennon was referring to when he spoke about players not doing enough to recover from their injuries. As has also been mentioned there was talk of MacLaren going back to the A-League before the Lennon situation happened. Seems to me like a bit of face saving from him to say that was a catalyst for him leaving rather than the fact he was a complete waste of a wage for half a season.

I have no doubt that a number of the players will have enjoyed working under Lennon, he's a good manager and probably a good coach. The problem has been his volatile temperament and off-field issues. Whatever has led to Lennon going has been what happened in that meeting with Dempster.

She doesn't strike me as someone incapable of standing up for herself or prone to making rash decisions so the fact that she has decided to immediately suspend Lennon and has, very deliberately IMO, avoided speaking publically on the matter since suggests to me that Lennon's anger and behaviour has been directed towards Dempster in an unacceptable and possibly personal way.

There three scenarios being played out here by the media's coverage of this.

1 - They are simply making stuff up and making it as controversial as possible in order to sell more papers.

2 - They know nothing but are accepting rumours as facts and feel that printing negative stuff about Hibs as a club and the board will go down better with their readership than it would to do the same about Lennon.

3 - They are backing Lennon. Either they have an off-the-record breakdown of what happened from him which will be a very skewed and biased version of events or regardless of what he actually done the journalists and pundits that are friendly with him from his time at Celtic or as a pundit himself are circling the wagons around him and being very deliberate and vindictive in their reporting.

Generally, like to knock down anyone who is a threat to the ugly brothers.

[Hibbyradge]

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.



The budget given to the manager equates to our income after overheads. We've been seeing +/- £200k end if year accounts for several years.

What do you think it should be?

[matty_f]

So there's a report saying that Jamie left because Lennon was sacked, and another saying that he left because of a fall out with Lennon and a lack of game time.

Anyone think players and managers etc don't always tell the whole truth in interviews? :greengin

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.



What is the difference between having a theory and having an agenda?

[matty_f]

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.


With all due respect - this point makes no sense.

From a profit point of view, the single easiest way for the board to drive up profit is to increase revenue (this is easier than cutting costs and siginficantly more effective in the long term).

How does a football club like Hibs increase revenue? Bums on seats and prize money.

What gets bums on seats and prize money?

Doing well on the pitch.

Therefore the priority is (and always will be) getting the best possible team on the pitch.

Petrie (IIRC) was quoted at one point as saying his aim was to have us take in a pound more than we spend (or words to that effect). He didn't mean it literally, but his point was that profit wasn't important - the football club only exists to aim for success on the pitch.

We don't pay dividends to shareholders, so the budgets are only managed to keep the lights on in the building and get the best team we can out on the pitch.

If we're not successful on the field, there's less money to spend and it is harder to take in a pound more than we spend.

[The 90+2]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

Hopefully the board went right through Lennon for the shambles he put on the park in Motherwell to start with.

[Liberal Hibby]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

What's your agenda?

[Newhaven]

God I cannot wait for the day when I can toast a beer to the Daily Record and its associated trash papers closing their doors for the final time.

+1.

[CockneyRebel]

First of all I know nothing, however I'd imagine if players are asked by journalists, as they're bound to be, how they found working with Lennon they're never going to say anything detrimental. After all, their paths could cross again in future. No one wants to burn bridges.

How some folk don't see this is unreal.

[Peevemor]

How some folk don't see this is unreal.

Also a player being too quick to bad mouth a manager could well put other managers off.

[Winston Ingram]

Mclaren left because he was pish and wasn’t getting a game. He’s just making it sound like Lennon leaving was the reason behind his choice. Seems to me he jumped before he was pushed

This

[CockneyRebel]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.


You need a lie down in a dark room.

[monarch]

Bit of a scoop in that article. It seems Hibs goal was later chalked off as we were beaten 0-2 by the Sheepies.
:cb

History has taught us that just because Ollie gets the ball over the line it doesn’t mean to say it’s a goal. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

So there's a report saying that Jamie left because Lennon was sacked, and another saying that he left because of a fall out with Lennon and a lack of game time.

Anyone think players and managers etc don't always tell the whole truth in interviews? :greengin

Are you looking for this? It's the closest I could find.

https://www.houseofmalt.co.uk/product/the-lakes-elderflower-gin-liqueur-20cl/?gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-35WgsyPqG1u_H1H6-pBOVc9gzPa9J_hMs_cPzIURoIobKLrriPlvBoCmP0QAvD_BwE

[CraigHibee]

Surprised to see Maclaren say this, as I thought he'd had some kind of falling out with Lennon himself, hence the lack of game time.

yeah evening news reported he was unhappy at game time and wanted the move due to a fall out, somehow think the media are doing their usual **** stirring :stirrer:

[matty_f]

Are you looking for this? It's the closest I could find.

https://www.houseofmalt.co.uk/product/the-lakes-elderflower-gin-liqueur-20cl/?gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-35WgsyPqG1u_H1H6-pBOVc9gzPa9J_hMs_cPzIURoIobKLrriPlvBoCmP0QAvD_BwE

Just how bored are you, exactly?

[BlackSheep]

Nonsense. Hibs generally aim to break even. The odd times there's been a profit have been down to good cup runs and/or a decent player sale. The higher the club's turnover, the more money that's put back into the playing budget - as backed up by the annual accounts.

Of course, but the moneymen will never take a risk and speculate to accumulate.


Does the bit in bold not apply to just about every club in the entire world?

Of course it does, the important part of my comment is the part about who sets that budget. Other clubs margins for growth will be better than ours i am certain of that. We, as a club, could invest more but choose not to.

[Hibbyradge]

Just how bored are you, exactly?

A weekend in Edinburgh takes its toll so I'm voluntarily housebound today.

To answer your question, I'm exactly 67.5% bored.

[Hibbyradge]

Of course, but the moneymen will never take a risk and speculate to accumulate.



Of course it does, the important part of my comment is the part about who sets that budget. Other clubs margins for growth will be better than ours i am certain of that. We, as a club, could invest more but choose not to.

Sorry, BS, but that implies we do something else with our money.

What do we do with it instead?

[BlackSheep]

you need a lie down in a dark room.

:rolleyes:

[Mick O'Rourke]

+1.

+2
The DR view/lies (for weeks) on what took place on the pitch at Hampden after the final whistle is as shameful as the 18 month or so campaign from Police Scotland trawling through video footage to identify and arrest as many Hibernian supporters as they could.

[Keith_M]

An article in the DR is always going to put a particular slant on any 'story'.

I honestly don't know why anybody takes them seriously.

[J-C]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

Lennon forgot he was a head coach and not a manager, many of the management aspects he thought he should be doing was not in his remit. We have structures in place and Lennon as you say stepped on too many toes.

[brog]

Of course, but the moneymen will never take a risk and speculate to accumulate.



Of course it does, the important part of my comment is the part about who sets that budget. Other clubs margins for growth will be better than ours i am certain of that. We, as a club, could invest more but choose not to.

It's a bit ironic to say the money men never take a risk given that Lennon's departure, precipitated according to you, by said money men, is almost certainly going to cost us a fair whack.

[BlackSheep]

Sorry, BS, but that implies we do something else with our money.

What do we do with it instead?

This year the money we could be using on players is being ringfenced for the new training pitch... this investment is Dempster’s baby this year and should ultimately be a great asset, but her silence in recent months suggests this is where the money will be going and she knows that not everybody will be happy with that.

[BlackSheep]

It's a bit ironic to say the money men never take a risk given that Lennon's departure, precipitated according to you, by said money men, is almost certainly going to cost us a fair whack.

It’ll cost all right, just cost less than what Lennon obviously wanted to start rebuilding the team again.

[CapitalGreen]

This year the money we could be using on players is being ringfenced for the new training pitch... this investment is Dempster’s baby this year and should ultimately be a great asset, but her silence in recent months suggests this is where the money will be going and she knows that not everybody will be happy with that.

So you have anything to back this up?

[The 90+2]

It’ll cost all right, just cost less than what Lennon obviously wanted to start rebuilding the team again.

He started in the summer. He bought Mallan and Horgan and Kamberi. Got backed with an expensive loan goalie and McLaren to go with the other International goalie he bought.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Love watching as you all twist what was said to meet you own agendas.

Lennon parting company with Hibs was down to the board NOT the players, regardless of what you think or have interpreted.

He stood on too many toes and the opportunity to part ways with him presented itself and Hibs hierarchy took it.

Next manager will toe the line and the success on the field will only be measured in profit made year on year.

This is the reality of it... Our club will finish higher in the league only when we get a manager who can turn mediocrity in to excellence within the budget set by the financial team(s) at Hibs.

Something stinks at Easter Road just now, and the turnover of staff in the past year or so, some of whom I am friends with, only backs this theory.

Absolutely agree.
The comments of every pundit, every journo, every ex-player and every other commentator who is astounded by Lennon's sacking (for that is what it was irrespective of official statements) are being dismissed out of hand as being part of an anti-Hibs conspiracy or as merely sour grapes. Now, if all of those people are in it together then that really is a major conspiracy theory.
The only thing that I'd say in reply to your post is that when you say 'the next manager' I feel that you are understating things. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the next five managers in quick succession- because that's what I am guessing it will take to overcome the inertia at Easter Rd and effect a real change.

[CropleyWasGod]

Absolutely agree.
The comments of every pundit, every journo, every ex-player and every other commentator who is astounded by Lennon's sacking (for that is what it was irrespective of official statements) are being dismissed out of hand as being part of an anti-Hibs conspiracy or as merely sour grapes. Now, if all of those people are in it together then that really is a major conspiracy theory.
The only thing that I'd say in reply to your post is that when you say 'the next manager' I feel that you are understating things. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the next five managers in quick succession- because that's what I am guessing it will take to overcome the inertia at Easter Rd and effect a real change.

Or, option3, which is the most popular opinion on here:-

That no-one outside of the club actually knows what happened.

[BlackSheep]

He started in the summer. He bought Mallan and Horgan and Kamberi. Got backed with an expensive loan goalie and McLaren to go with the other International goalie he bought.

Yes he started in the summer and it hasn’t gone to plan... so he needed more to rethink and adjust the squad... think Oliver asking for more gruel!!

[BlackSheep]

Or, option3, which is the most popular opinion on here:-

That no-one outside of the club actually knows what happened.

And not many inside the club know the exact details as well...

[CropleyWasGod]

And not many inside the club know the exact details as well...

Ergo, how does HM Press know so much? :greengrin

[Rumble de Thump]

It's quite clear that BlackSheep is Chris Sutton.

[BlackSheep]

Ergo, how does HM Press know so much? :greengrin

Most of what is out there is purely speculative, the rest comes from reliable sources... like Lennon himself probably, so many saying it’s all lennon’s pals doing the talking... if thats the case then surely their source is Lennon! While he cannot pas comment himself I’m sure he’s been on the WhatsApp to his mates spilling the beans... one sided most likely but that’s my theory.

[BlackSheep]

It's quite clear that BlackSheep is Chris Sutton.

I’ve been rumbled 😱

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=BlackSheep;5696970]Of course, but the moneymen will never take a risk and speculate to accumulate.


They certainly did that with McLeish and we ended up in deep doo doo. If we filled the stadium for every match then that could increase investment. Nobody looking for a return on their investment puts money into football. The big EPL clubs have investors that want the publicity and kudos associated with football events and actually have money to throw away on their toys (Abramovic at Chelsea springs to mind) You could maybe make money by rescuing a big name club for a small purchase price and building it up (i.e. Fergus McCann at Celtic) then sell up. I don't think there is much in the way of dividends for shareholders in any football club.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Quote from MacLaren - and notice that it IS in quotation marks, not merely 'hearsay'.

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

[BlackSheep]

[QUOTE=BlackSheep;5696970]Of course, but the moneymen will never take a risk and speculate to accumulate.


They certainly did that with McLeish and we ended up in deep doo doo. If we filled the stadium for every match then that could increase investment. Nobody looking for a return on their investment puts money into football. The big EPL clubs have investors that want the publicity and kudos associated with football events and actually have money to throw away on their toys (Abramovic at Chelsea springs to mind) You could maybe make money by rescuing a big name club for a small purchase price and building it up (i.e. Fergus McCann at Celtic) then sell up. I don't think there is much in the way of dividends for shareholders in any football club.

I agree with this viewpoint, but making enough to keep your “toy” in working order is certainly enough for some.

Burnt their fingers with McLeish perhaps.

[CropleyWasGod]

Most of what is out there is purely speculative, the rest comes from reliable sources... like Lennon himself probably, so many saying it’s all lennon’s pals doing the talking... if thats the case then surely their source is Lennon! While he cannot pas comment himself I’m sure he’s been on the WhatsApp to his mates spilling the beans... one sided most likely but that’s my theory.

So you're saying that it's only NL that can be talking... and therefore breaking the NDA?





.... dials Rod....tells him no to sign that cheque....

[Hibbyradge]

Quote from MacLaren - and notice that it IS in quotation marks, not merely 'hearsay'.

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

I think that's been taken out of context or it's a lie.

His move away from Hibs was being worked on before Lennon was suspended.

[The 90+2]

Yes he started in the summer and it hasn’t gone to plan... so he needed more to rethink and adjust the squad... think Oliver asking for more gruel!!

It didn’t go to plan last summer either really.

Lennon was back substantially. What he done with his nugget is another story completely though.

[BlackSheep]

So you're saying that it's only NL that can be talking... and therefore breaking the NDA?





.... dials Rod....tells him no to sign that cheque....

I’ve signed NDAs in the past, and know many who also have and does it stop us talking about it over dinner with my mates, who wouldn’t quote me on it?

If there’s no poet trail then Lennon has nothing to worry about to blab to his pals.

[CapitalGreen]

Yes he started in the summer and it hasn’t gone to plan... so he needed more to rethink and adjust the squad... think Oliver asking for more gruel!!

He actually started 2 summers ago.

He bought Stokes, Murray and Lith Dave, all of whom were out the door by the following winter transfer window.

Last summer he brought in Milligan, McLaren and Mallan who were pursued as top targets all summer and have failed to deliver under his management.

He supplemented the squad with the likes of Mavrias, Nelom and Agyepong. 3 players he tried to sign while Celtic manager who have had little to no game time.

[BlackSheep]

It didn’t go to plan last summer either really.

Lennon was back substantially. What he done with his nugget is another story completely though.

Agreed, doesn’t mean he still didn’t want more! Constantly returning and asking for more will not have gone down well with the moneymen, they have to put their foot down eventually.

[CropleyWasGod]

I’ve signed NDAs in the past, and know many who also have and does it stop us talking about it over dinner with my mates, who wouldn’t quote me on it?

If there’s no poet trail then Lennon has nothing to worry about to blab to his pals.

WhatsApp will have the smoking gun :greengrin

[CapitalGreen]

Quote from MacLaren - and notice that it IS in quotation marks, not merely 'hearsay'.

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

and if the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked was because he was bullying players?

Maclaren is very close to Kamberi

[The 90+2]

Quote from MacLaren - and notice that it IS in quotation marks, not merely 'hearsay'.

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

I’m not sure McLaren would know with any great certainty if Lennon got sacked or not.

[IngolstadtHarry]

I think that's been taken out of context or it's a lie.

His move away from Hibs was being worked on before Lennon was suspended.

I guess that, to paraphrase Donald Trump, MacLaren 'mis-spoke' when he said 'sacking'. He really meant 'exit by mutial consent'.

[The 90+2]

and if the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked was because he was bullying players?

Maclaren is very close to Kamberi

That’s what I took from it. Also have the same agent I think.

[CockneyRebel]

Yes he started in the summer and it hasn’t gone to plan... so he needed more to rethink and adjust the squad... think Oliver asking for more gruel!!

Think "Please sir (Mr Bumble aka Petrie) could I have some more?) Answers on a postcard please.

[CapitalGreen]

Agreed, doesn’t mean he still didn’t want more! Constantly returning and asking for more will not have gone down well with the moneymen, they have to put their foot down eventually.

Based on the crap signings he squandered money on in the past I would have been hesitant in giving him anymore.

[BlackSheep]

Based on the crap signings he squandered money on in the past I would have been hesitant in giving him anymore.

I don’t disagree... but reluctance does show mistrust, which in turn shows where the once rosy relationship between manager/coach and the board begins to tumble.

I had heard from a few reliable folk after the summer that Lennon and Dempster had fallen out, I didn’t want to believe it but as the season went on the comments didn’t recede and then this mess happened...

[bigwheel]

Based on the crap signings he squandered money on in the past I would have been hesitant in giving him anymore.


Does that mean you wouldn't back George Craig and Graeme Mathie - the football operations & recruitment team either? they were a full part of those transfer & selection processes. Should they go to?

[The 90+2]

Agreed, doesn’t mean he still didn’t want more! Constantly returning and asking for more will not have gone down well with the moneymen, they have to put their foot down eventually.

👍 can’t argue with that. I would have questioned giving him much more in the summer too.

[The 90+2]

Does that mean you wouldn't back George Craig and Graeme Mathie - the football operations & recruitment team either? they were a full part of those transfer & selection processes. Should they go to?

Lennon tells them players he wants, they try to make it happen. Not the other way about.

[bigwheel]

Lennon tells them players he wants, they try to make it happen. Not the other way about.


that's not the case...he may tell them type of players he wants...they go and find them, source them, recommend them...He may have final say - but they are integral part of the process - every bit as much as Lennon. You can't have it both ways. If you don't trust Lennon, then surely you don't trust the other key participants in the process.

[CapitalGreen]

Does that mean you wouldn't back George Craig and Graeme Mathie - the football operations & recruitment team either? they were a full part of those transfer & selection processes. Should they go to?

Yes. I have my doubts in regards to how much influence they had over recruitment during Lennon’s tenure but if the board believe they have been failing in their role their position should also be under review.

[The 90+2]

that's not the case...he may tell them type of players he wants...they go and find them, source them, recommend them...He may have final say - but they are integral part of the process - every bit as much as Lennon. You can't have it both ways. If you don't trust Lennon, then surely you don't trust the other key participants in the process.

He likes of Ambrose, Mallan, Rocky, Horgan, Bogdan all Lennon signings Kamberi not so much given we had him on trial prior to signing which also indicates we sign the players Lennon agrees to.

[BlackSheep]

👍 can’t argue with that. I would have questioned giving him much more in the summer too.

The whole Scott Allan fiasco is a huge element in the breakdown of Hibs and Lennon, which comes down to impatience on Lennon’s part (Hibs’ POV) and lack of ambition on Hib’s part (lennon’s POV).

If this was the catalyst for an argument between Lennon and Leanne and other grievances were aired then who knows how hearted things would become.

[Hibbyradge]

and if the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked was because he was bullying players?

Maclaren is very close to Kamberi

Very good point.

[The 90+2]

Yes. I have my doubts in regards to how much influence they had over recruitment during Lennon’s tenure but if the board believe they have been failing in their role their position should also be under review.

I suspect they gave him a lot of leeway to get the players in himself and possibly weren’t particularly keen on it.

[The 90+2]

The whole Scott Allan fiasco is a huge element in the breakdown of Hibs and Lennon, which comes down to impatience on Lennon’s part (Hibs’ POV) and lack of ambition on Hib’s part (lennon’s POV).

If this was the catalyst for an argument between Lennon and Leanne and other grievances were aired then who knows how hearted things would become.

If the club couldn’t afford Allan in this window and Celtic wouldn’t budge what more could we do? May has already confirmed he thought it was almost over the line last week.

[Hibbyradge]

I guess that, to paraphrase Donald Trump, MacLaren 'mis-spoke' when he said 'sacking'. He really meant 'exit by mutial consent'.

I guess, to paraphrase no-one, that you ignored the point that Maclaren's move was being worked on well in advance of Lennon's suspension.

[bigwheel]

He likes of Ambrose, Mallan, Rocky, Horgan, Bogdan all Lennon signings Kamberi not so much given we had him on trial prior to signing which also indicates we sign the players Lennon agrees to.


Come on. You are just believing your own narrative now. No balance of views?? You blame Lennon for signings, yet not the rest of the recruitment team? Only Ambrose and Bogdan previously worked with Lennon - so not sure why you put in the rest - Although most of those were our better signings by the way. So Lennon has a decent strike rate, if they were his choices. :wink:

ps. I think Lennon would admit disappointment at this summer recruitment - but overall he has done well - and I'd have banked him and the others to correct it again too. That said, he has moved on - so let's look forward. This hindsight changing of history (on either side) doesn't feel right to me though

[Hibbyradge]

I don’t disagree... but reluctance does show mistrust, which in turn shows where the once rosy relationship between manager/coach and the board begins to tumble.

I had heard from a few reliable folk after the summer that Lennon and Dempster had fallen out, I didn’t want to believe it but as the season went on the comments didn’t recede and then this mess happened...

Lennon was at pains to point out that he'd been given full backing from the board.

He signed 33 players in 2 and a half years, plus we brought in McNulty, Gauld, Omeonga and Bigi this window.

He said recently that we were in a good position to sign quality players because we were able to offer higher than normal salaries.

[CockneyRebel]

and if the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked was because he was bullying players?

Maclaren is very close to Kamberi

Exactly! If you read what MacLaren reputedly said it could mean he left because he knew what caused the suspension/sacking/mutual consent. So much being said from all sides yet we all know sweet FA.

[IngolstadtHarry]

I guess, to paraphrase no-one, that you ignored the point that Maclaren's move was being worked on well in advance of Lennon's suspension.

Apparently, MacLaren was weighing his options and the Lennon sacking was the decider. All of that is, of course, according to MacLaren.
You, however, undoubtedly have the inside knowledge on what MacLaren was really thinking.

[The Modfather]

Does that mean you wouldn't back George Craig and Graeme Mathie - the football operations & recruitment team either? they were a full part of those transfer & selection processes. Should they go to?

I don’t have much confidence in Lennon, Craig or Mathie’s recruitment the last 3 years or so. As well as a new manager I think recruitment also needs reviewed and revamped.

[Hibbyradge]

Apparently, MacLaren was weighing his options and the Lennon sacking was the decider. All of that is, of course, according to MacLaren.
You, however, undoubtedly have the inside knowledge on what MacLaren was really thinking.

Where did you read that lot?

You have chosen to believe a one line quote in the daily record, the context of which we do not know.

The circumstances of Lennon's sacking? What does that even mean?

[CapitalGreen]

Apparently, MacLaren was weighing his options and the Lennon sacking was the decider. All of that is, of course, according to MacLaren.
You, however, undoubtedly have the inside knowledge on what MacLaren was really thinking.

Can you provide a quote where MacLaren explicitly says the sacking was the decider please.

[bigwheel]

Yes. I have my doubts in regards to how much influence they had over recruitment during Lennon’s tenure but if the board believe they have been failing in their role their position should also be under review.

I love the fact you are acknowledging they have a key role - but somehow doubt Lennon allowed them to do it... wild theories..:greengrin:greengrin

I don't think they have done a bad job - all of them - This summer has been poor - but most of the signings looked decent . The fact they haven't performed is partly down to management, some of it injuries and also partly down to the players - who have underperformed. All of those are factors. Not sure why people are keen to paint Lennon as the key fault line.

We saw on Saturday what lacking his leadership, tactics and bite gives us - an insipid and poor tactical performance.

I hope we get a top leader and coach in soon - as our season is fading away to way below mediocrity.

[IngolstadtHarry]

A tweet on Sunday from Irvine Welsh. But, no doubt, we will hear that Welsh was misquoted / was lying / was taken out of context / was getting a backhander from the Daily Record / was trying to drum up sales for his latest book.


'And Welsh made his feelings clear on Twitter today with a brutal reply to the club's official account.
Before today's clash with Aberdeen at Easter Road, Hibs posted an image of the pitch, writing: "Game Day! The Easter Road pitch is in perfect condition for the visit of Aberdeen."
Welsh's cutting reply read: "Pity about the boardroom and management team but you can't have everything." '

[CockneyRebel]

Apparently, MacLaren was weighing his options and the Lennon sacking was the decider. All of that is, of course, according to MacLaren.
You, however, undoubtedly have the inside knowledge on what MacLaren was really thinking.

Then how come the Oz club released the signing news before Lennon officially departed?

[Hibbyradge]

A tweet on Sunday from Irvine Welsh. But, no doubt, we will hear that Welsh was misquoted / was lying / was taken out of context / was getting a backhander from the Daily Record / was trying to drum up sales for his latest book.


'And Welsh made his feelings clear on Twitter today with a brutal reply to the club's official account.
Before today's clash with Aberdeen at Easter Road, Hibs posted an image of the pitch, writing: "Game Day! The Easter Road pitch is in perfect condition for the visit of Aberdeen."
Welsh's cutting reply read: "Pity about the boardroom and management team but you can't have everything." '

What's your point?

[bigwheel]

I don’t have much confidence in Lennon, Craig or Mathie’s recruitment the last 3 years or so. As well as a new manager I think recruitment also needs reviewed and revamped.


you could be right - I don't think they have done too bad (other than this summer - which always was going to be tough) - but if the view is that it has been poor - then all of those involved need to be held to account...

[CapitalGreen]

A tweet on Sunday from Irvine Welsh. But, no doubt, we will hear that Welsh was misquoted / was lying / was taken out of context / was getting a backhander from the Daily Record / was trying to drum up sales for his latest book.


'And Welsh made his feelings clear on Twitter today with a brutal reply to the club's official account.
Before today's clash with Aberdeen at Easter Road, Hibs posted an image of the pitch, writing: "Game Day! The Easter Road pitch is in perfect condition for the visit of Aberdeen."
Welsh's cutting reply read: "Pity about the boardroom and management team but you can't have everything." '

What authority does Welsh have on Hibs over any other regular punter on Twitter?

[IngolstadtHarry]

Can you provide a quote where MacLaren explicitly says the sacking was the decider please.

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

[CapitalGreen]

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

So that’s a no then, you can’t. Thanks

[IngolstadtHarry]

What authority does Welsh have on Hibs over any other regular punter on Twitter?

Just another public figure who is going to take a hammering on here for saying the wrong thing - that's all.
So, let's hear it.......

[Hibbyradge]

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

That could mean anything.

It could have been an answer to a completely different question.

It could imply criticism of Neil Lennon.

As has been pointed out, Melbourne announced Maclaren's move before Lennon's suspension.

Why do you insist on ignoring that?

[CockneyRebel]

A tweet on Sunday from Irvine Welsh. But, no doubt, we will hear that Welsh was misquoted / was lying / was taken out of context / was getting a backhander from the Daily Record / was trying to drum up sales for his latest book.


'And Welsh made his feelings clear on Twitter today with a brutal reply to the club's official account.before today's clash with Aberdeen at Easter Road, Hibs posted an image of the pitch, writing: "Game Day! The Easter Road pitch is in perfect condition for the visit of Aberdeen."
Welsh's cutting reply read: "Pity about the boardroom and management team but you can't have everything." '


It's still just his opinion/viewpoint, not evidence of anything. Just because he is famous doesn't mean he has inside info so why do you quote him as if he is the all seeing eye?

[One Day Soon]

We're at the point where tweets from Irvine Welsh are now the barometer by which we judge whats going on at the club? :faf:

[matty_f]

Just another public figure who is going to take a hammering on here for saying the wrong thing - that's all.
So, let's hear it.......

Interesting to see how he's going to get a hammering on here for it.

I'm sure your post is the first mention of it, and the tweet was from Saturday.

[The 90+2]

And the 25-year-old revealed that Lennon's messy exit from the capital club - which was officially mutual consent (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3811725/neil-lennon-hibs-suspension-statement-sacked-resigned-manager-odds/) - made up his mind to leave Scotland and return Down Under.
Maclaren said: "For me it was about the circumstances with Neil Lennon getting sacked."

He blames the circumstances that led to Lennon being sacked that reads then changed by friends in the media.

[BlackSheep]

Lennon was at pains to point out that he'd been given full backing from the board.

He signed 33 players in 2 and a half years, plus we brought in McNulty, Gauld, Omeonga and Bigi this window.

He said recently that we were in a good position to sign quality players because we were able to offer higher than normal salaries.


Do you not think this was cos he was sticking to the company line? Just because he seemed eager to say he had been backed doesn't mean thats exactly how he felt! If he was looking to avoid a conflict he would definitely be spouting rhetoric about being backed, when i reality he was likely pounding on doors at Hibs asking for more!

[The 90+2]

We're at the point where tweets from Irvine Welsh are now the barometer by which we judge whats going on at the club? :faf:

I wonder where his season ticket is about when he’s in the country. Come to think of it I wonder when the last time he stuck money into the club in any shape or form.

[Hibbyradge]

Just another public figure who is going to take a hammering on here for saying the wrong thing - that's all.
So, let's hear it.......

The management team were not in perfect condition for the game against Aberdeen, and I'm sure the directors were rattled by Lennon's departure, so I agree with his remarks in that sense.

[CapitalGreen]

Just another public figure who is going to take a hammering on here for saying the wrong thing - that's all.
So, let's hear it.......

I care about Irvine Welsh’s opinion on Hibs as much as I care about a random guy in the pubs opinion. When it comes to Hibs he’s just a fan like the rest of us.

[matty_f]

Do you not think this was cos he was sticking to the company line? Just because he seemed eager to say he had been backed doesn't mean thats exactly how he felt! If he was looking to avoid a conflict he would definitely be spouting rhetoric about being backed, when i reality he was likely pounding on doors at Hibs asking for more!

Lennon had gone on record to say that he was happy with the backing from the board on several occasions during his time with Hibs.

We also know that managers often don't tell the truth to the media so finding evidence supporting either view is going to be tricky.

[The 90+2]

Come on. You are just believing your own narrative now. No balance of views?? You blame Lennon for signings, yet not the rest of the recruitment team? Only Ambrose and Bogdan previously worked with Lennon - so not sure why you put in the rest - Although most of those were our better signings by the way. So Lennon has a decent strike rate, if they were his choices. :wink:

ps. I think Lennon would admit disappointment at this summer recruitment - but overall he has done well - and I'd have banked him and the others to correct it again too. That said, he has moved on - so let's look forward. This hindsight changing of history (on either side) doesn't feel right to me though

Lennon has already been quoted saying he tried to get Mallan and Horgan before they signed. Some signings he made where good, of course. The team and squad he put together ended up a shambles.

[IngolstadtHarry]

It's still just his opinion/viewpoint, not evidence of anything. Just because he is famous doesn't mean he has inside info so why do you quote him as if he is the all seeing eye?

Not at all, but I put his tweet forward to add to the growing list of commentators, pundits, journos, present and former players and fans who are astounded and bewildered by the events of the last week.
Are you suggesting that I am claiming all of them to be 'all seeing eyes'?

[Hibbyradge]

Do you not think this was cos he was sticking to the company line? Just because he seemed eager to say he had been backed doesn't mean thats exactly how he felt! If he was looking to avoid a conflict he would definitely be spouting rhetoric about being backed, when i reality he was likely pounding on doors at Hibs asking for more!

Neil Lennon wasn't shy at saying what he believed.

If you think he was lying to us, that's up to you, but I think he's trustworthy.

If we didn't have money to spend, he'd have spoken about tight budgets and financial constraints.

His narrative was the exact opposite of that and he was almost effusive to the board.

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=IngolstadtHarry;5697122]Just another public figure who is going to take a hammering on here for saying the wrong thing - that's all.


You quoted him ffs.And only because he is well known. In football terms he is just a punter like us.

[Hibeesmad]

Lennon is a fantastic manager, admired by a lot of former players. From the day he got suspended I highly doubted it was due to issues with players, his ambition was way too high for what the club were willing to offer

[BlackSheep]

Lennon had gone on record to say that he was happy with the backing from the board on several occasions during his time with Hibs.

We also know that managers often don't tell the truth to the media so finding evidence supporting either view is going to be tricky.


Lennon also went 'on record' as saying we hadn't spoken to Jamie MacLaren within days of him signing on loan in the summer, there is never going to be evidence of what has been the truth or not, especially in regard to recent events (due to the likely legal nature of the truth).

But where there's smoke there's fire.... and there seems to be a lot of smoke billowing out of the same place right now.

[bigwheel]

Lennon has already been quoted saying he tried to get Mallan and Horgan before they signed. Some signings he made where good, of course. The team and squad he put together ended up a shambles.

and therefore they were his choices?? Why assume that? Why not part of our search and recruit process?

You seem to be isolating Lennon as the issue - I can sense there is nothing that will change you mind. I actually, would have trusted him (and the football dept) to put it right - he and they would be as likely as anyone else we get in to do so.

If you are right though, and the whole process of building the squad was a shambles (seems hyperbole to me) - exiting Lennon won't be all that is needed. The football department is still functioning as they were supporting him.

[CapitalGreen]

Not at all, but I put his tweet forward to add to the growing list of commentators, pundits, journos, present and former players and fans who are astounded and bewildered by the events of the last week.
Are you suggesting that I am claiming all of them to be 'all seeing eyes'?

It may shock you to learn I have little concern for what commentators, pundits, journos, present and former players have to say on the matter. I form my own opinions based on the evidence available. For me the evidence had been building up for quite some time that it was time for Lennon’s management of Hibs to end.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Lennon had gone on record to say that he was happy with the backing from the board on several occasions during his time with Hibs.

We also know that managers often don't tell the truth to the media so finding evidence supporting either view is going to be tricky.

Absolutely. But both Lennon and the board said many things in the final official statement which we know to be a crock of sh*t - the most blatant lie, of course, being that there had been no sacking.

[The Modfather]

Not at all, but I put his tweet forward to add to the growing list of commentators, pundits, journos, present and former players and fans who are astounded and bewildered by the events of the last week.
Are you suggesting that I am claiming all of them to be 'all seeing eyes'?

I think we’re all astounded and bewildered by last weeks events but I’ve yet to see anyone give a detailed definition of what happened. The truth is that only Lennon and probably a handful of others know first hand what went on. The rest of it is conjecture, sensationalism and working an agenda, whether that be pro or anti Lennon.

[stuart01]

I care about Irvine Welsh’s opinion on Hibs as much as I care about a random guy in the pubs opinion. When it comes to Hibs he’s just a fan like the rest of us.

Virtually never post on here. Just read and watch - after years of watching what is true is that no one knows anything.

If Lennon left and it it was all mutual then fair enough. But only Hibs and Lennon know for sure - the rest is rubbish and heresay!

[BlackSheep]

Neil Lennon wasn't shy at saying what he believed.

If you think he was lying to us, that's up to you, but I think he's trustworthy.

If we didn't have money to spend, he'd have spoken about tight budgets and financial constraints.

His narrative was the exact opposite of that and he was almost effusive to the board.

People can be quite effusive even if it is disingenuous, so why couldn't this be the case with Lennon?

One can be quite complimentary of colleagues when its in a public forum but sometimes what one really thinks can be quite different, this helps to maintain relationships.

[The 90+2]

Lennon is a fantastic manager, admired by a lot of former players. From the day he got suspended I highly doubted it was due to issues with players, his ambition was way too high for what the club were willing to offer

He’s a head coach firstly. Secondly he’s not fantastic.

[CropleyWasGod]

Absolutely. But both Lennon and the board said many things in the final official statement which we know to be a crock of sh*t - the most blatant lie, of course, being that there had been no sacking.

"know"?

or "suspect"?

or "think"?

or "want "?

[IngolstadtHarry]

[QUOTE=IngolstadtHarry;5697122]Just another public figure who is going to take a hammering on here for saying the wrong thing - that's all.


You quoted him ffs.And only because he is well known. In football terms he is just a punter like us.

He happens to be rather a famous punter and one of many who are bewildered by Lennon's sacking.
And don't pretend that if Welsh had praised the sacking that you wouldn't have been gleefully quoting it up and down this thread.

[Hibbyradge]

Lennon is a fantastic manager, admired by a lot of former players. From the day he got suspended I highly doubted it was due to issues with players, his ambition was way too high for what the club were willing to offer

What was his ambition?

[lapsedhibee]

Not at all, but I put his tweet forward to add to the growing list of commentators, pundits, journos, present and former players and fans who are astounded and bewildered by the events of the last week.
Are you suggesting that I am claiming all of them to be 'all seeing eyes'?

Irvine Welsh's tweet didn't make him sound either astounded or bewildered. It read simply as a throwaway line about the messy management situation on the day of the tweet.

[CapitalGreen]

He happens to be rather a famous punter and one of many who are bewildered by Lennon's sacking.
And don't pretend that if Welsh had praised the sacking that you wouldn't have been gleefully quoting it up and down this thread.

He is famous for writing books unrelated to Hibs. What relevance does his level of fame have to the debate. Why is his opinion worth more than the next fans?

[stuart01]

He is famous for writing books unrelated to Hibs. What relevance does his level of fame have to the debate. Why is his opinion worth more than the next fans?

Couldn’t agree more. He knows no more about Hibs than any fan.

The fact that he has sold a few books (and rightly so) doesn’t give him the authority to be a Hibs spokesmen!

[IngolstadtHarry]

He is famous for writing books unrelated to Hibs. What relevance does his level of fame have to the debate. Why is his opinion worth more than the next fans?

Just another figure on the growing list, another figure from my era, who has witnessed, over many years, the pervasive influence of the money men (and women) at Easter Rd.
Would you deny him - and me - and all the others who are unhappy about this crisis, our say in the matter?

[Hibbyradge]

People can be quite effusive even if it is disingenuous, so why couldn't this be the case with Lennon?

One can be quite complimentary of colleagues when its in a public forum but sometimes what one really thinks can be quite different, this helps to maintain relationships.

For your version of events to be correct, Lennon has to have been lying.

Lying about our ability to pay higher salaries to recruit quality players.

Lying about the board being good to him.

Lying about being backed.

The rumours that Kamberi was being bullied and or attacked must be false and the story about personal abuse directed at the CEO must be malicious and untrue.

It also requires us to ignore the fact that Lennon was given the money to sign 33 players in his 2 and a half seasons. And that we signed good quality and expensive players in January.

That's starting to look like quite a conspiracy theory.

[BILLYHIBS]

I half expected a show of solidarity from the fans towards Neil Lennon in the first home game since Lennongate on Saturday versus Aberdeen.... silence!

Poignant or significant?

[Smartie]

He is famous for writing books unrelated to Hibs. What relevance does his level of fame have to the debate. Why is his opinion worth more than the next fans?

It probably isn't - but isn't the opinion of the "next fan" also of interest?

That why we all come on to use a message board is it not?

Welsh will probably not make a less controversial statement in his "puff".

Hibs have had a tough few weeks, we had a temporary management team in place for Saturday's game and our board have been through a bit of turmoil. As far as I'm concerned pointing that out was a matter of fact rather than opinion.

[Hibbyradge]

I half expected a show of solidarity from the fans towards Neil Lennon in the first home game since Lennongate on Saturday versus Aberdeen.... silence!

Poignant or significant?

I don't think there are many people who think NL is the blameless victim that the Daily Record would like us to believe.

I'm massively disappointed in him so I wouldn't have joined in if there had been any show of support.

[CapitalGreen]

Just another figure on the growing list, another figure from my era, who has witnessed, over many years, the pervasive influence of the money men (and women) at Easter Rd.
Would you deny him - and me - and all the others who are unhappy about this crisis, our say in the matter?

Everyone’s allowed an opinion, just not in favour of putting certain people’s opinions on a pedestal for reasons that have no relevance to the debate.

[Rumble de Thump]

Just another figure on the growing list, another figure from my era, who has witnessed, over many years, the pervasive influence of the money men (and women) at Easter Rd.
Would you deny him - and me - and all the others who are unhappy about this crisis, our say in the matter?

You copied and pasted what he tweeted, but what is it you think he's said? Come to think of it, what is it that you're actually saying? What is it that these 'money men (and women)' have done to upset you?

[bigwheel]

I half expected a show of solidarity from the fans towards Neil Lennon in the first home game since Lennongate on Saturday versus Aberdeen.... silence!

Poignant or significant?


Neither tbh..I don't think there was a massive groundswell of anger of what happened - mixed opinion, bewilderment and confusion was more the sense I got..

Many fans are a bit numbed by this season now - both on the pitch and off it. I hope the Board have a strategy to re-ignite us or else attendances and season tickets will crash well below where they are now. A Scottish Cup win is what we need! :wink:

[IngolstadtHarry]

What was his ambition?

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

[CapitalGreen]

It probably isn't - but isn't the opinion of the "next fan" also of interest?

That why we all come on to use a message board is it not?

Welsh will probably not make a less controversial statement in his "puff".

Hibs have had a tough few weeks, we had a temporary management team in place for Saturday's game and our board have been through a bit of turmoil. As far as I'm concerned pointing that out was a matter of fact rather than opinion.

Of course, Welsh is free to come on here and share his opinion. I’m debating the purpose of other people putting his opinion on a pedestal.

[The Modfather]

[QUOTE=gloryhunter;5697145]

He happens to be rather a famous punter and one of many who are bewildered by Lennon's sacking.
And don't pretend that if Welsh had praised the sacking that you wouldn't have been gleefully quoting it up and down this thread.

You’re all over the place on these threads. You keep seeing some bizarre conspiracy theory that no board criticism is allowed on here but haven’t provided any evidence when challenged. You introduce a tweet from a celebratory author who is also a Hibee as some sort of sage then complain about a hypothetical scenario where if he had said something different we’d all have been quoting him.

None of us know what happened, some are glad he’s gone, whatever it was that happened. Some are disappointed he’s gone, whatever it was that happened. That’s about the thick of it.

[Velma Dinkley]

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

So do you think the board were correct to get rid of a head coach who had us 8th in the league?

[CapitalGreen]

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

He probably should have had us higher than 8th place in that case then.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

So, when it's said every year at the AGM that it's the club's ambition to be competing at the top of Scottish football and to be competing regularly in Europe, that's a lie?

[lapsedhibee]

You copied and pasted what he tweeted, but what is it you think he's said? Come to think of it, what is it that you're actually saying? What is it that these 'money men (and women)' have done to upset you?

Outrageous that money men have the influence they do at Hibs. Not sure if Jamie Marwick's replacement has been hired yet, but if not I hope the board go for a fire-eater, or a juggler, something like that, rather than an accountant as Finance Director.

[Hibbyradge]

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

:hilarious

You haven't answered my question.

You've told me what his ambition wasn't.

[CropleyWasGod]

Outrageous that money men have the influence they do at Hibs. Not sure if Jamie Marwick's replacement has been hired yet, but if not I hope the board go for a fire-eater, or a juggler, something like that, rather than an accountant as Finance Director.

Or a lion tamer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azkFz1ZbXyU

[Rumble de Thump]

Has JK Rowling tweeted about this yet?

[BlackSheep]

For your version of events to be correct, Lennon has to have been lying.

Lying about our ability to pay higher salaries to recruit quality players.

Lying about the board being good to him.

Lying about being backed.

The rumours that Kamberi was being bullied and or attacked must be false and the story about personal abuse directed at the CEO must be malicious and untrue.

It also requires us to ignore the fact that Lennon was given the money to sign 33 players in his 2 and a half seasons. And that we signed good quality and expensive players in January.

That's starting to look like quite a conspiracy theory.

HA!

I think lying is a bit far fetched....

He did not have to lie whatsoever to be unhappy with the situation at Hibs!

He could be telling the truth our ability to pay higher salaries to recruit quality players, but not be happy with the level of wages we can offer and therefor the level of quality we can attract... look at the Ambrose situation, if we had been able to offer him a lot more then he may have stayed if money was his motive.

He could be telling the truth about the board being good to him, just not happy that they couldn't offer more.

He could be telling the truth about being backed... but unhappy at just how far they were willing to back him!!!

The rumours that Kamberi was being bullied and or attacked must be false and the story about personal abuse directed at the CEO must be malicious and untrue... well both of these are just what you have said, rumours!
Lennon's criticism of Kamberi this year is well documented but to what extent we don't know? The fact that he was regularly vocal about how he felt about Kamberi's performances coudl be construed as bullying but there is no evidence of anything further than public criticism having happened.

And why does it require us to ignore the fact that Lennon was given the money to sign 33 players in his 2 and a half seasons. And that we signed good quality and expensive players in January.... the point I have made is that despite all of these factors, he still wanted more!!! Its this theory that what he wanted and what he was given led to a breakdown between him and Hibs.....

Your analysis of my theory is more far fetched than the theory itself!

[IngolstadtHarry]

Of course, Welsh is free to come on here and share his opinion. I’m debating the purpose of other people putting his opinion on a pedestal.

I'm not sure exactly where you observed this pedestal.
I've also quoted MacLaren and alluded to the comments of many journalists, pundits and public figures in the game. Was I also putting THEIR opinions on pedestals?
Observing the ever-growing list of public figures astounded by the Lennon sacking, I am surely going to run out of pedestals at this rate.

[BlackSheep]

:hilarious

You haven't answered my question.

You've told me what his ambition wasn't.

Finding it hard to read between the lines or does he have to spell it out for you in simple terms?

[One Day Soon]

Or a lion tamer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azkFz1ZbXyU


What we really need is a poet writing in the magical surrealism style. There's no way we're going to recruit effectively - or sustain a serious European run - without one.

[HappyAsHellas]

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

Which member of our present board are you talking about, and did they tell you this first hand?
Or is it just some more made up nonsense.........where's my gorilla suit, I smell a ponzi scheme.

[One Day Soon]

Which member of our present board are you talking about, and did they tell you this first hand?
Or is it just some more made up nonsense.........where's my gorilla suit, I smell a ponzi scheme.

Just realised I didn't include a Ponzi Scheme clique in my original clique list. Doh!

[CapitalGreen]

I'm not sure exactly where you observed this pedestal.
I've also quoted MacLaren and alluded to the comments of many journalists, pundits and public figures in the game. [BWas I also putting THEIR opinions on pedestals?[/B]
Observing the ever-growing list of public figures astounded by the Lennon sacking, I am surely going to run out of pedestals at this rate.

Yes. Why does the fact someone is a public figure make their opinion more valid than someone who is not?

You seem to use the fact that someone is famous to suggest their opinion is of greater importance than someone who isn’t.

[matty_f]

Lennon also went 'on record' as saying we hadn't spoken to Jamie MacLaren within days of him signing on loan in the summer, there is never going to be evidence of what has been the truth or not, especially in regard to recent events (due to the likely legal nature of the truth).

But where there's smoke there's fire.... and there seems to be a lot of smoke billowing out of the same place right now.

Yes, your first paragraph was exactly the point I was making. So no smoke without fire, if he's saying he was happy with the backing he got then there's the smoke to suggest that he was, that's how it works, right?

[The Modfather]

Finding it hard to read between the lines or does he have to spell it out for you in simple terms?

Not sure about Hibbyradge, but I’d certainly like him to answer a direct question with a direct answer and not be required to “read between the lines”

[Smartie]

Of course, Welsh is free to come on here and share his opinion. I’m debating the purpose of other people putting his opinion on a pedestal.

I'm not on twitter for this very reason.

Irvine Welsh's books are pretty good, I enjoy reading them. I like the way footballers play football, musicians make music and actors act.

I have no desire whatsoever to hear their opinions on politics or see pictures of their dinner.

Most people are different these days. Getting a brief acknowledgment from a celebrity via a thumbs up or whatever can make their week, another week that their grandparents get closer to the grave without anyone bothering their arse going to see them.

And if I want the opinion of a Hibs supporter I'll come on here.

(Apologies for the brief diversion - everyone just carry on).

[BlackSheep]

I'm not sure exactly where you observed this pedestal.
I've also quoted MacLaren and alluded to the comments of many journalists, pundits and public figures in the game. Was I also putting THEIR opinions on pedestals?
Observing the ever-growing list of public figures astounded by the Lennon sacking, I am surely going to run out of pedestals at this rate.

Don't worry... soon we will have unmasked this conspiracy and see that after all this it was one person posing as this list of commenters, so only one pedestal will be needed!! LOLOLOLOLOL.

Amazes me that so many are unwilling to consider that perhaps Hibs got this wrong and Lennon simply said, "F*** It, i don't need this s***! and left.... and his friends and colleagues think that it isnt fair.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Finding it hard to read between the lines or does he have to spell it out for you in simple terms?

Hibbyradge is clearly not very well versed in simple logic - perhaps I should have drawn up a 'wish board' with smiley faces and sad faces for him.

[BILLYHIBS]

I don't think there are many people who think NL is the blameless victim that the Daily Record would like us to believe.

I'm massively disappointed in him so I wouldn't have joined in if there had been any show of support.

Agree! If anyone starting singing “One Neil Lennon!” I think most right thinking hibbies would not join in and there is a general consensus that it is time to move on

With regard to your question regarding ambition I feel that part of this or perhaps all of this goes back to Lennys inability to beat Hearts at Tinycastle especially the last Derby of last season

It was as if he was a “tinkerman” he could not resist playing about with a winning team especially when Hearts were there for the taking

We move on!

[One Day Soon]

I'm not on twitter for this very reason.

Irvine Welsh's books are pretty good, I enjoy reading them. I like the way footballers play football, musicians make music and actors act.

I have no desire whatsoever to hear their opinions on politics or see pictures of their dinner.

Most people are different these days. Getting a brief acknowledgment from a celebrity via a thumbs up or whatever can make their week, another week that their grandparents get closer to the grave without anyone bothering their arse going to see them.

And if I want the opinion of a Hibs supporter I'll come on here.

(Apologies for the brief diversion - everyone just carry on).


What an excellent post.

[matty_f]

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

We were 8th when he left, despite spending much more than St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Livingston, who were all ahead of us.

Would you say that Lennon was matching the board's ambition with that performance?

[IngolstadtHarry]

Outrageous that money men have the influence they do at Hibs. Not sure if Jamie Marwick's replacement has been hired yet, but if not I hope the board go for a fire-eater, or a juggler, something like that, rather than an accountant as Finance Director.

Well, they sure as hell don't have a single PR person - so that might be a good area to begin with.

[Jonnyboy]

I'll answer that. His ambition wasn't to manage a mid-table, decent run in the cup, avoid relegation side.
From my observations he would never have been happy with a draw against the Old Firm or just reaching a cup final.
To that extent, his ambitions were not a match for those of our present board.

Ironic don’t you think that the club’s ambition was to aim for the highest position in the league and have genuine opportunities to land both cups. That is, after all why they went for Neil Lennon. Looks like matching ambitions to me

[The Modfather]

We were 8th when he left, despite spending much more than St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Livingston, who were all ahead of us.

Would you say that Lennon was matching the board's ambition with that performance?

Yep, having ambitions is commendable, but you also have to walk the walk. Which this season he didn’t.

[IngolstadtHarry]

So do you think the board were correct to get rid of a head coach who had us 8th in the league?

You've asked me the kind of question I'd expect from someone with a single-digit IQ so I'll answer it with a single word: No

[Rumble de Thump]

Don't worry... soon we will have unmasked this conspiracy and see that after all this it was one person posing as this list of commenters, so only one pedestal will be needed!! LOLOLOLOLOL.

Amazes me that so many are unwilling to consider that perhaps Hibs got this wrong and Lennon simply said, "F*** It, i don't need this s***! and left.... and his friends and colleagues think that it isnt fair.

It seems that almost everyone is open minded to all possibilities as they're aware that nobody knows what's actually happened other than the individuals involved. The people involved haven't given any interviews, so all we have to go on is the joint statement. There only seems to be a couple of people on this thread who aren't open minded to all possibilities, and are obsessed with making stuff up to attack the Hibs board. Why they are doing that is anyone's guess.

[Hibbyradge]

HA!

I think lying is a bit far fetched....

He did not have to lie whatsoever to be unhappy with the situation at Hibs!

He could be telling the truth our ability to pay higher salaries to recruit quality players, but not be happy with the level of wages we can offer and therefor the level of quality we can attract... look at the Ambrose situation, if we had been able to offer him a lot more then he may have stayed if money was his motive.

He could be telling the truth about the board being good to him, just not happy that they couldn't offer more.

He could be telling the truth about being backed... but unhappy at just how far they were willing to back him!!!

The rumours that Kamberi was being bullied and or attacked must be false and the story about personal abuse directed at the CEO must be malicious and untrue... well both of these are just what you have said, rumours!
Lennon's criticism of Kamberi this year is well documented but to what extent we don't know? The fact that he was regularly vocal about how he felt about Kamberi's performances coudl be construed as bullying but there is no evidence of anything further than public criticism having happened.

And why does it require us to ignore the fact that Lennon was given the money to sign 33 players in his 2 and a half seasons. And that we signed good quality and expensive players in January.... the point I have made is that despite all of these factors, he still wanted more!!! Its this theory that what he wanted and what he was given led to a breakdown between him and Hibs.....

Your analysis of my theory is more far fetched than the theory itself!

Ok.

Your theory requires several assumptions which you've made up to suit your chosen version of events.

You're guessing that Neil Lennon said one thing, but that he hid the reality which you have somehow uncovered.

My version needs no guesswork. I just believe what the people involved have said.

If he had said I don't have the money to buy the players I want, I would have believed him.

If he had said, there is money available, but the board won't give it to me, I would have believed him.

But he said the exact opposite. And I believe him.

Let's face it, you want the board to be at fault and no amount of reasoning is going to persuade you otherwise.

And before you suggest that the same applies to me in reverse, your points are not reasoning. You're making things up to create a story.

[Hibbyradge]

Finding it hard to read between the lines or does he have to spell it out for you in simple terms?

We nearly finished 2nd last season and we had a decent run in our first European campaign.

This year we were in 8th position when he was suspended.

I'm not quite sure which if his ambitions weren't supported by the board so yes, simple terms would be good.

[CropleyWasGod]

You've asked me the kind of question I'd expect from someone with a single-digit IQ so I'll answer it with a single word: No

Slight thread hijack, but have you ever considered a career in counselling? :wink:

[Rumble de Thump]

You've asked me the kind of question I'd expect from someone with a single-digit IQ so I'll answer it with a single word: No

How weird. Have you even been reading your posts? :greengrin Your 'thoughts' are all over the place.

[One Day Soon]

I think some of our posters probably had a really bad time being bullied at school. Would account for a lot.

[blackpoolhibs]

We're at the point where tweets from Irvine Welsh are now the barometer by which we judge whats going on at the club? :faf:

Love Irvine and his work, i wonder when he posted that tweet as quite often he's higher than a kite? :party:

Still at least he never posted it on facebook, they let anyone open an account there.

[Rumble de Thump]

Well, they sure as hell don't have a single PR person - so that might be a good area to begin with.

They do, but with your level of knowledge of the board you obviously would have known that.

[The Modfather]

I think some of our posters probably had a really bad time being bullied at school. Would account for a lot.

Life doesn’t get any easier, bullied at school and then bullied by the pro board posse on Hibs.net... 😂

[Hibbyradge]

Hibbyradge is clearly not very well versed in simple logic - perhaps I should have drawn up a 'wish board' with smiley faces and sad faces for him.

If you can explain which of Neil Lennon's ambitions were not matched by the board, you can spell it out in Lego for all I care.

It would be good to know, though.

[BlackSheep]

It seems that almost everyone is open minded to all possibilities as they're aware that nobody knows what's actually happened other than the individuals involved. The people involved haven't given any interviews, so all we have to go on is the joint statement. There only seems to be a couple of people on this thread who aren't open minded to all possibilities, and are obsessed with making stuff up to attack the Hibs board. Why they are doing that is anyone's guess.

I see where you are coming from and I will put it to you like this:-

If somehow all was revealed and it turned out that all of this happened because the board didn't want to stump up more cash to strengthen the first team and were happy to finish midtable this year, both of which Lennon couldnt take and lost his patience and it all came to a head on Friday so he was sacked after a fall out, and asked to sign an NDA to keep the reputation of the club intact and given a golden handshake to do so, would you be happy?

There seems to be alot of commenters in the press and on social media who have back Neil Lennon, and now some current players have also backed him as a manager, in a way subtly backing his integrity, and all of these commenters are being accused of being part of a pro-Lennon / anti-Hibs Board agenda.

I'll repeat my smoke without fire comment and say, its less likely that there is an anti-Hibs board agenda than the truth being closer to the first statement i made.

[One Day Soon]

Life doesn’t get any easier, bullied at school and then bullied by the pro board posse on Hibs.net... 😂

The mental PBP. Scary, scary crew.

[BlackSheep]

If you can explain which of Neil Lennon's ambitions were not matched by the board, you can spell it out in Lego for all I care.

It would be good to know, though.

Without evidence he could only speculate....

Apologies for answering for you Harry but I would speculate that Lennon said, "give me £XXXX and I will get us in the top 4" and the board said, "we don't think that possible Neil, so we will not give you that amount, how about this much, £XXX, its less but see how you get on...."

[CropleyWasGod]

I see where you are coming from and I will put it to you like this:-

If somehow all was revealed and it turned out that all of this happened because the board didn't want to stump up more cash to strengthen the first team and were happy to finish midtable this year, both of which Lennon couldnt take and lost his patience and it all came to a head on Friday so he was sacked after a fall out, and asked to sign an NDA to keep the reputation of the club intact and given a golden handshake to do so, would you be happy?

There seems to be alot of commenters in the press and on social media who have back Neil Lennon, and now some current players have also backed him as a manager, in a way subtly backing his integrity, and all of these commenters are being accused of being part of a pro-Lennon / anti-Hibs Board agenda.

I'll repeat my smoke without fire comment and say, its less likely that there is an anti-Hibs board agenda than the truth being closer to the first statement i made.

You can get smoke without fire.

Smoke also comes from machines, and at the moment one machine seems to be working harder than the other. Why that is, we can only speculate, which after all is what we are all doing.

[Rumble de Thump]

I see where you are coming from and I will put it to you like this:-

If somehow all was revealed and it turned out that all of this happened because the board didn't want to stump up more cash to strengthen the first team and were happy to finish midtable this year, both of which Lennon couldnt take and lost his patience and it all came to a head on Friday so he was sacked after a fall out, and asked to sign an NDA to keep the reputation of the club intact and given a golden handshake to do so, would you be happy?

There seems to be alot of commenters in the press and on social media who have back Neil Lennon, and now some current players have also backed him as a manager, in a way subtly backing his integrity, and all of these commenters are being accused of being part of a pro-Lennon / anti-Hibs Board agenda.

I'll repeat my smoke without fire comment and say, its less likely that there is an anti-Hibs board agenda than the truth being closer to the first statement i made.

Do you not think it's unhealthy to be so obsessed with one idea you've plucked out of your backside? Where has the obsession come from?

[IngolstadtHarry]

We nearly finished 2nd last season and we had a decent run in our first European campaign.

This year we were in 8th position when he was suspended.

I'm not quite sure which if his ambitions weren't supported by the board so yes, simple terms would be good.

You may want to take a look at a list of players who left between last season and this and try to figure out if that could possibly have made a difference, especially in the light of Hibs' budget for replacements.
I'm sure, however, that you have a better 'explanation' involving Lennon suffering some kind of brainstorm.

There seems to be enormous enthusiasm among anti-Lennon posters for alluding to this '8th position' but since when were performance statistics compiled before the end of January?

[Rumble de Thump]

Without evidence he could only speculate....

Apologies for answering for you Harry but I would speculate that Lennon said, "give me £XXXX and I will get us in the top 4" and the board said, "we don't think that possible Neil, so we will not give you that amount, how about this much, £XXX, its less but see how you get on...."

Hibs have a budget, which Neil Lennon said he was happy with.

[CropleyWasGod]

If you can explain which of Neil Lennon's ambitions were not matched by the board, you can spell it out in Lego for all I care.

It would be good to know, though.

At least you're getting answers, in Lego or otherwise.

Maybe I should also play the "talk to me, I'm bored" card. Seems to be working for you. :greengrin

[LeithMike]

[QUOTE=matty_f;5696928]
How does a football club like Hibs increase revenue? Bums on seats and prize money.

What gets bums on seats and prize money?

Doing well on the pitch.

Therefore the priority is (and always will be) getting the best possible team on the pitch.



Normally agree with you Matty but think there are some alternatives which hold weight. I have no insider knowledge but if the rumour is that Hibs were modelling themselves on Southampton then we might be going down the route of developing players with a view to sell them on. This approach might coincide with success on the pitch but not always as we have definitely experienced before and Southampton are too now that the well is running dry.

People seem so polarised on Lennon. I dont know but it strikes me that there were probably problems on a number of fronts. I found Lennon's treatment of Kamberi quite distasteful (which suggested he is not entirely innocent) but I also found it difficult to comprehend why he was being singled out and have yet to hear a plausible explanation.

Perhaps, when it came to signing him Lennon was uncomfortable with the wage Kamberi would get and it was preventing him getting his other targets. Perhaps he wanted an older striker that he had played with before but the recruitment team and board overruled him to get a young player in with a potential windfall sell on value. This might certainly explain Lennon's treatment of Kamberi in that he was actually sending a message to the board. Could be a load of rubbish though!

In any event Hibs are not in a great position and there are signs that this goes deeper than the manager losing the plot. I dont think the facts are clear enough at this stage simply to blame it on Lennon and the Glasgow media, albeit that may turn out to be the reality.



Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Hibbyradge is clearly not very well versed in simple logic - perhaps I should have drawn up a 'wish board' with smiley faces and sad faces for him.


You've asked me the kind of question I'd expect from someone with a single-digit IQ so I'll answer it with a single word: No

There really is no need for personal insults. I'm sure you can carry on making your point without them. Cheers. :thumbsup:

[Hibbyradge]

Without evidence he could only speculate....

Apologies for answering for you Harry but I would speculate that Lennon said, "give me £XXXX and I will get us in the top 4" and the board said, "we don't think that possible Neil, so we will not give you that amount, how about this much, £XXX, its less but see how you get on...."

I think the board said, here's all the money we've received from the sale of SJM and what we had in your original budget.

Please get us into Europe again.

[BlackSheep]

Ok.

Your theory requires several assumptions which you've made up to suit your chosen version of events.

You're guessing that Neil Lennon said one thing, but that he hid the reality which you have somehow uncovered.

My version needs no guesswork. I just believe what the people involved have said.

If he had said I don't have the money to buy the players I want, I would have believed him.

If he had said, there is money available, but the board won't give it to me, I would have believed him.

But he said the exact opposite. And I believe him.

Let's face it, you want the board to be at fault and no amount of reasoning is going to persuade you otherwise.

And before you suggest that the same applies to me in reverse, your points are not reasoning. You're making things up to create a story.

Actually this is correct, as you are saying because he said what you have paraphrases him as saying then its THE TRUTH!!

You accuse me of making assumptions then state that simply because someone said it out loud it must be gospel!

The difference between you and I is that I was taught to question everything and to examine everything from all angles before submitting my hypothesis, I have looked at, read, listened to as much as I can about this subject and my opinion is what I have aired.

We will never know the 100% truth of the matter but that doesn't allow those of you who are adamant you are correct to downplay another pesron's theory.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Life doesn’t get any easier, bullied at school and then bullied by the pro board posse on Hibs.net... 😂

Lol, to quote Denis Healey, being bullied on Hibs.net would rather be like being savaged by a dead sheep.

[BlackSheep]

I think the board said, here's all the money we've received from the sale of SJM and what we had in your original budget.

Please get us into Europe again.

Just as speculative as my theory.... would love to know which of us is closer, but I guess we will never find out.

I can ask my mate at hibs all i want but he wont tell me. I know this because when i spoke to him on Sunday morning after the fact he sent me messages that almost word for word were what David Gray told the press that weekend.

This is where I began to see a pattern at hibs of having quite strong policy on the "company line".

[IngolstadtHarry]

Without evidence he could only speculate....

Apologies for answering for you Harry but I would speculate that Lennon said, "give me £XXXX and I will get us in the top 4" and the board said, "we don't think that possible Neil, so we will not give you that amount, how about this much, £XXX, its less but see how you get on...."

I absolutely agree.

[Hibbyradge]

You may want to take a look at a list of players who left between last season and this and try to figure out if that could possibly have made a difference, especially in the light of Hibs' budget for replacements.
I'm sure, however, that you have a better 'explanation' involving Lennon suffering some kind of brainstorm.

There seems to be enormous enthusiasm among anti-Lennon posters for alluding to this '8th position' but since when were performance statistics compiled before the end of January?

I'm not anti Lennon or anyone still at Hibs.

I wanted him to stay although several people wanted him sacked before he was suspended.

I know who left and I know who was injured. So did NL and he acknowledged that it would take time to replace the quality we had lost. I wanted him to have that time.

You're anti board made up stories deserve to be challenged, however.

I have positive faith in the board and in my club.

Your faith is utterly negative.

You still haven't answered my question about which of NL's ambitions weren't matched by the board.

[BlackSheep]

[QUOTE=matty_f;5696928]
How does a football club like Hibs increase revenue? Bums on seats and prize money.

What gets bums on seats and prize money?

Doing well on the pitch.

Therefore the priority is (and always will be) getting the best possible team on the pitch.



Normally agree with you Matty but think there are some alternatives which hold weight. I have no insider knowledge but if the rumour is that Hibs were modelling themselves on Southampton then we might be going down the route of developing players with a view to sell them on. This approach might coincide with success on the pitch but not always as we have definitely experienced before and Southampton are too now that the well is running dry.

People seem so polarised on Lennon. I dont know but it strikes me that there were probably problems on a number of fronts. I found Lennon's treatment of Kamberi quite distasteful (which suggested he is not entirely innocent) but I also found it difficult to comprehend why he was being singled out and have yet to hear a plausible explanation.

Perhaps, when it came to signing him Lennon was uncomfortable with the wage Kamberi would get and it was preventing him getting his other targets. Perhaps he wanted an older striker that he had played with before but the recruitment team and board overruled him to get a young player in with a potential windfall sell on value. This might certainly explain Lennon's treatment of Kamberi in that he was actually sending a message to the board. Could be a load of rubbish though!

In any event Hibs are not in a great position and there are signs that this goes deeper than the manager losing the plot. I dont think the facts are clear enough at this stage simply to blame it on Lennon and the Glasgow media, albeit that may turn out to be the reality.



Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I think this may be close to the truth as well, and I certainly think the "odd" starting lineups of late could form part of that message to the board... which is quite deplorable of Lennon to do if found to be true.

[Hibbyradge]

At least you're getting answers, in Lego or otherwise.

Maybe I should also play the "talk to me, I'm bored" card. Seems to be working for you. :greengrin

Funnily enough, I'm not bored anymore. :greengrin

[IngolstadtHarry]

There really is no need for personal insults. I'm sure you can carry on making your point without them. Cheers. :thumbsup:

Apologies

[matty_f]

Normally agree with you Matty but think there are some alternatives which hold weight. I have no insider knowledge but if the rumour is that Hibs were modelling themselves on Southampton then we might be going down the route of developing players with a view to sell them on. This approach might coincide with success on the pitch but not always as we have definitely experienced before and Southampton are too now that the well is running dry.

People seem so polarised on Lennon. I dont know but it strikes me that there were probably problems on a number of fronts. I found Lennon's treatment of Kamberi quite distasteful (which suggested he is not entirely innocent) but I also found it difficult to comprehend why he was being singled out and have yet to hear a plausible explanation.

Perhaps, when it came to signing him Lennon was uncomfortable with the wage Kamberi would get and it was preventing him getting his other targets. Perhaps he wanted an older striker that he had played with before but the recruitment team and board overruled him to get a young player in with a potential windfall sell on value. This might certainly explain Lennon's treatment of Kamberi in that he was actually sending a message to the board. Could be a load of rubbish though!

In any event Hibs are not in a great position and there are signs that this goes deeper than the manager losing the plot. I dont think the facts are clear enough at this stage simply to blame it on Lennon and the Glasgow media, albeit that may turn out to be the reality.



Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I don't think Hibs' transfer activity backs up an alignment with Southampton's policy, so I think we can safely discount that theory, though it is worth considering.

I don't think I'm especially polarised on Lennon, I loved having him as manager and would 100% have been happy to see him see out the season as a minimum. I think he's a good manager that was going through a bad spell.

[CropleyWasGod]

Funnily enough, I'm not bored anymore. :greengrin

I am.

I'm guessing IH has me on ignore, or maybe my questions are too boring. At least, more boring than the ***** that you've been posting. :greengrin

Still, talking to myself has passed the time.

I'll be off now........

[Hibbyradge]

Actually this is correct, as you are saying because he said what you have paraphrases him as saying then its THE TRUTH!!

You accuse me of making assumptions then state that simply because someone said it out loud it must be gospel!

The difference between you and I is that I was taught to question everything and to examine everything from all angles before submitting my hypothesis, I have looked at, read, listened to as much as I can about this subject and my opinion is what I have aired.

We will never know the 100% truth of the matter but that doesn't allow those of you who are adamant you are correct to downplay another pesron's theory.

Of course we can downplay other people's theories!

It's part and parcel of a football message board.

You're not questioning anything though. You're disbelieving what's in the public domain and replacing it with some made up scenarios.

Your theory just requires you to make up the exact combination of stories to prove that the board didn't back the manager. You're not making up stories which show NL in a bad light, just the board.

I'm not making anything up, but if you prefer a conspiracy theory, crack on.

[matty_f]

I think this may be close to the truth as well, and I certainly think the "odd" starting lineups of late could form part of that message to the board... which is quite deplorable of Lennon to do if found to be true.

I think you only need to look at the injury list (and have some consideration for who is coming back from injury etc) to understand the reasons for the odd starting line-ups.

I don't think managers consistently put a team out to send messages to the board, they don't need to at a club like Hibs because Lennon could sit and speak to the board whenever he wanted.

Ultimately managers are judged on performances, they'll put out teams to win games as best they can. Lennon wouldn't want a bottom 6 finish on his CV at Hibs, and for me it's much more rational to say that the team changes were for reasons of player availability or wanting to play a particular system, rather than deliberately weakening the team to send a message.

[Hibbyradge]

Just as speculative as my theory....

Exactly.

And just as valid, and just as likely.

[Liberal Hibby]

Absolutely agree.
The comments of every pundit, every journo, every ex-player and every other commentator who is astounded by Lennon's sacking (for that is what it was irrespective of official statements) are being dismissed out of hand as being part of an anti-Hibs conspiracy or as merely sour grapes. Now, if all of those people are in it together then that really is a major conspiracy theory.
The only thing that I'd say in reply to your post is that when you say 'the next manager' I feel that you are understating things. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the next five managers in quick succession- because that's what I am guessing it will take to overcome the inertia at Easter Rd and effect a real change.

And you know this how? Interesting you joined in May 2012 - I wondwer what happened then?

[BlackSheep]

Funnily enough, I'm not bored anymore. :greengrin

Heck, its certainly made my slow day at work go a lot quicker!! :greengrin

[jacomo]

Do you not think this was cos he was sticking to the company line? Just because he seemed eager to say he had been backed doesn't mean thats exactly how he felt! If he was looking to avoid a conflict he would definitely be spouting rhetoric about being backed, when i reality he was likely pounding on doors at Hibs asking for more!


I really don’t think so.

Lennon is not a man to hide what he thinks, and on a number of occasions during his tenure the media invited him to criticise the Hibs Board for a lack of backing. He never did.

One thing he did say which annoyed me was that it was ‘impossible’ to sign a proper replacement for SJM. Tricky, sure, but impossible? I’m not sure anyone at Hibs really pushed hard enough to do that.

I just don’t see how you can conclude that Lennon was pushed out by a penny-pinching Board. Other factors were surely at play.

[IngolstadtHarry]

I'm not anti Lennon or anyone still at Hibs.

I wanted him to stay although several people wanted him sacked before he was suspended.

I know who left and I know who was injured. So did NL and he acknowledged that it would take time to replace the quality we had lost. I wanted him to have that time.

You're anti board made up stories deserve to be challenged, however.

I have positive faith in the board and in my club.

Your faith is utterly negative.

You still haven't answered my question about which of NL's ambitions weren't matched by the board.

Lennon's ambitions were obviously to challenge for cups and the league title - that was fairly obvious from his dissatisfaction with last season's results. He had absolutely no fear of taking the game to Celtic - home or away.
The usual suspects will now be screaming '8th position' but Lennon would have had the team back up challenging again.
I am predicting that we will have five new 'head coaches' with the next four years. I would be happy to be proved wrong on this - but nothing short of an upheaval will change that.

[Hibbyradge]

This is where I began to see a pattern at hibs of having quite strong policy on the "company line".

Every club tries to keep to a company line when there is controversy.

[BlackSheep]

I think you only need to look at the injury list (and have some consideration for who is coming back from injury etc) to understand the reasons for the odd starting line-ups.

I don't think managers consistently put a team out to send messages to the board, they don't need to at a club like Hibs because Lennon could sit and speak to the board whenever he wanted.

Ultimately managers are judged on performances, they'll put out teams to win games as best they can. Lennon wouldn't want a bottom 6 finish on his CV at Hibs, and for me it's much more rational to say that the team changes were for reasons of player availability or wanting to play a particular system, rather than deliberately weakening the team to send a message.

I used to argue with my hibs mates that the team selections were down to injuries and availability too, but it was then pointed out to me when on a few occasions players were left out that were fit and raring to play, who probably should be playing but weren't... that made me begin to question things... like perhaps the board are not listening to Lennon when he says, I've made a few bad choices and need some more funds to rectify them....

[matty_f]

Lennon's ambitions were obviously to challenge for cups and the league title - that was fairly obvious from his dissatisfaction with last season's results. He had absolutely no fear of taking the game to Celtic - home or away.
The usual suspects will now be screaming '8th position' but Lennon would have had the team back up challenging again.
I am predicting that we will have five new 'head coaches' with the next four years. I would be happy to be proved wrong on this - but nothing short of an upheaval will change that.

Usual suspects... Screaming 8th position...

Again you've posted something that exists only in your own head.

[BlackSheep]

I really don’t think so.

Lennon is not a man to hide what he thinks, and on a number of occasions during his tenure the media invited him to criticise the Hibs Board for a lack of backing. He never did.

One thing he did say which annoyed me was that it was ‘impossible’ to sign a proper replacement for SJM. Tricky, sure, but impossible? I’m not sure anyone at Hibs really pushed hard enough to do that.

I just don’t see how you can conclude that Lennon was pushed out by a penny-pinching Board. Other factors were surely at play.

Its impossible to sign a ready made replacement if you don't have the funds to do so.... Its clear to all that to replace SJM would take one of two things... Time or Money.

Time to bring in a young player and develop a new SJM.

Money to buy one that fits the mould now.

I think Lennon wanted the latter and was told that the former was preferred.

[Hibbyradge]

Lennon's ambitions were obviously to challenge for cups and the league title - that was fairly obvious from his dissatisfaction with last season's results. He had absolutely no fear of taking the game to Celtic - home or away.
The usual suspects will now be screaming '8th position' but Lennon would have had the team back up challenging again.
I am predicting that we will have five new 'head coaches' with the next four years. I would be happy to be proved wrong on this - but nothing short of an upheaval will change that.

Yes, and those ambitions exactly matched the board's.

I think you will be wrong about the coaches.

[matty_f]

I used to argue with my hibs mates that the team selections were down to injuries and availability too, but it was then pointed out to me when on a few occasions players were left out that were fit and raring to play, who probably should be playing but weren't... that made me begin to question things... like perhaps the board are not listening to Lennon when he says, I've made a few bad choices and need some more funds to rectify them....

That doesn't make sense. The message he'd be sending there would be "Don't trust me to make signings. Or pick teams."

It's also a sure fire way to turn a squad against you, because no player wants to be sent out to lose a football match.

[where'stheslope]

Players backing the manager that's gone is a good sign for any manager coming in!
It will make a new manager feel that if he gets things right, the players will back him all the way.
At the moment we are at a low ebb without a manager, so the sooner one is appointed the better!
We've got to hope the new manager hits the ground running, and we start getting the results I feel we should be getting!!!

[brydekirk]

Since he has left a lot of players and pundits appear to be backing Lennon a lot.

Marciano earlier today singing his praises and now McLaren saying Lennon leaving made up his decision to leave also.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-lennon-sacked-thats-left-13950112

What has actually happened at our club? Seems bizarre so many people are singing Lennons praises especially players.

Does anyone have any insight?

Lennon will blame anyone for his own shortcomings.
Full stop. End off.

[Liberal Hibby]

Do you not think this was cos he was sticking to the company line? Just because he seemed eager to say he had been backed doesn't mean thats exactly how he felt! If he was looking to avoid a conflict he would definitely be spouting rhetoric about being backed, when i reality he was likely pounding on doors at Hibs asking for more!

Only the true messiah denies their own divinity...

[Hibbyradge]

I used to argue with my hibs mates that the team selections were down to injuries and availability too, but it was then pointed out to me when on a few occasions players were left out that were fit and raring to play, who probably should be playing but weren't... that made me begin to question things... like perhaps the board are not listening to Lennon when he says, I've made a few bad choices and need some more funds to rectify them....

He was given money.

We signed players, good quality, expensive players. A £million rated striker, a midfielder who has a £60m release clause and a Serie A box to box player.

We got Scott Allan on pre-contract. We tried to lure Efe back.

I really don't know how anyone can say he wasn't backed.

[IngolstadtHarry]

And you know this how? Interesting you joined in May 2012 - I wondwer what happened then?

Know what? Where Hibs are heading?
Because I am sixty years old and have been following the team for 55 of those years.

Why did I join in May 2012?
Because I intended to travel back to Scotland for the cup final and wanted to attempt to get a ticket through the forum.

What happened then?
We were slaughtered by a vastly superior Hearts side - almost a repeat of the 2006 semi.

Is that information okay for you?
Or were you, in fact, not at all interested in any of that but simply wanted to make a sarcastic dig at me?

[Hibbyradge]

Its impossible to sign a ready made replacement if you don't have the funds to do so.... Its clear to all that to replace SJM would take one of two things... Time or Money.

Time to bring in a young player and develop a new SJM.

Money to buy one that fits the mould now.

I think Lennon wanted the latter and was told that the former was preferred.

How much do you think it would cost to replace a £4.5m player with someone who fits the mould now?

[matty_f]

He was given money.

We signed players, good quality, expensive players. A £million rated striker, a midfielder who has a £60m release clause and a Serie A box to box player.

We got Scott Allan on pre-contract. We tried to lure Efe back.

I really don't know how anyone can say he wasn't backed.

33 players were signed in Lennon's time, not including those that came in on deadline day that he had wanted.

We signed and paid fees for players from the English Championship, this is almost unheard of these days.

The argument that he wasn't backed doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.

The ony way you could disagree would be if you considered backing him to be signing players that would cost mutliples of what we have to offer.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Usual suspects... Screaming 8th position...

Again you've posted something that exists only in your own head.

Then examine this thread and all the others about Lennon and you will see how this is being put forward, again and again, in an attempt to demonstrate Lennon's 'failure'.

[Captain Trips]

33 players were signed in Lennon's time, not including those that came in on deadline day that he had wanted.

We signed and paid fees for players from the English Championship, this is almost unheard of these days.

The argument that he wasn't backed doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.

The ony way you could disagree would be if you considered backing him to be signing players that would cost mutliples of what we have to offer.

Indeed he was backed financially more than several teams above us have been he had the tools to do a job at hibs that should see us pushing for cups and for European football. The press have largely discounted the fact we are well off the pace and he "could" have got sacked purely based on results on any other day. I do not believe for one minute he was dismissed for that but there would have been an argument for it.

There is no excuse for Hibs to have been 8th at the time he left his friends in the press would do well to remember that.

[Captain Trips]

Then examine this thread and all the others about Lennon and you will see how this is being put forward, again and again, in an attempt to demonstrate Lennon's 'failure'.

Whats is 8th and well out of European spots in Januaray then "failure" or "success" or "meh"?. 8th with 3 or 4 points in it is fine not with 14/15 pts its not. Its bloody disgraceful so it is.

[matty_f]

Then examine this thread and all the others about Lennon and you will see how this is being put forward, again and again, in an attempt to demonstrate Lennon's 'failure'.

It's not.

I don't think I've seen people calling Lennon a failure at all. I can't think of a single post where that accusation has been levelled at him - and I read most of them.

It's been raised as a point of discussion a couple of times, I've raised it myself and I loved Lennon, thought he was a great manager and would have kept him on board.

I do find it hard to argue that he'd done a great job this season though, and the evidence I have to support that is that we were 8th when he left.

Should this just be ignored?

[BlackSheep]

How much do you think it would cost to replace a £4.5m player with someone who fits the mould now?

Depends on which diamond in the rough Lennon may or may not have found... :wink:

[Liberal Hibby]

Know what? Where Hibs are heading?
Because I am sixty years old and have been following the team for 55 of those years.

Why did I join in May 2012?
Because I intended to travel back to Scotland for the cup final and wanted to attempt to get a ticket through the forum.

What happened then?
We were slaughtered by a vastly superior Hearts side - almost a repeat of the 2006 semi.

Is that information okay for you?
Or were you, in fact, not at all interested in any of that but simply wanted to make a sarcastic dig at me?

Thank you for explaining - perhaps you can post on other threads after we win and be a little more balanced?

[Hibbyradge]

Depends on which diamond in the rough Lennon may or may not have found... :wink:

Stop it, FFS.

Now you're saying that he'd found a rough diamond but wasn't given the money to recruit him.

You should write books, mate. With that imagination you'd be a huge success.

[IngolstadtHarry]

It's not.

I don't think I've seen people calling Lennon a failure at all. I can't think of a single post where that accusation has been levelled at him - and I read most of them.

It's been raised as a point of discussion a couple of times, I've raised it myself and I loved Lennon, thought he was a great manager and would have kept him on board.

I do find it hard to argue that he'd done a great job this season though, and the evidence I have to support that is that we were 8th when he left.

Should this just be ignored?

The post directly above this one is yet another mentioning the 8th position as a mark of failure.
A manager shouldn't be judged by results up to January.
Not ignored - but accepted as a work-in-progress.

[bigwheel]

Indeed he was backed financially more than several teams above us have been he had the tools to do a job at hibs that should see us pushing for cups and for European football. The press have largely discounted the fact we are well off the pace and he "could" have got sacked purely based on results on any other day. I do not believe for one minute he was dismissed for that but there would have been an argument for it.

There is no excuse for Hibs to have been 8th at the time he left his friends in the press would do well to remember that.

I dislike these types of posts the "there really is no excuse" type of stuff..

Football is about people, humans, decisions.nuance, art with a bit of science - It's inconsistent. it's the reason I love it.

You never balance your points by noting his achievements the two years in succession prior, Semi Finals, Championships, Good position in the top league, Record points total, European successes..

You focus only on the negative of this season. You don't even acknowledge that 15 games or so ago we were second having won 4 in the bounce..Do you feel Lennon would be happy with where we are now? He'd be more frustrated and analytical about it than any of us. He has admitted that summer recruitment didn't work. He also acknowledged that at times he has not got it right. He would also balance it by noting the lack of performance from a number of players who he could rely on when things where going well. You give him no chance of turning it around, yet (I'm assuming) think some unknown manager will do better.

Hibs are 8th because collectively we were not good enough - the board, the recruitment team, the manager, the coaches and the players. I can't understand those who now seek to demonise Lennon's performance when very few people at the club (if any) can say they were performing at their best this season. We (Hibs) have to address this - across the board.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Thank you for explaining - perhaps you can post on other threads after we win and be a little more balanced?

'Balanced'? Meaning reflecting your own biased opinions? No.

[Liberal Hibby]

'Balanced'? Meaning reflecting your own biased opinions? No.

No - I mean if you only post negative stories laced with conspiracy theory and unsubstantiated attacks on the people running the club I support and fail ever to post after a win or a good performance then it is no wonder people will think your opinions are unbalanced.

[The Modfather]

The post directly above this one is yet another mentioning the 8th position as a mark of failure.
A manager shouldn't be judged by results up to January.
Not ignored - but accepted as a work-in-progress.

Is it just the term “failure” you object to? Or is it people questioning the managers performance this season at the half way mark? Were we wrong to jettison Stokes and Murray last season as their goal scoring and contribution shouldn’t have been judged up to January?

[matty_f]

The post directly above this one is yet another mentioning the 8th position as a mark of failure.
A manager shouldn't be judged by results up to January.
Not ignored - but accepted as a work-in-progress.

Ok there's one post. Was it one of the usual suspects (whoever they are) that posted it?

Bear in mind that I'm speaking as someone who advocated keeping Lennon until the end of the season (this is verifiable, if you were inclined to check my posts) - it's worth noting that loads of managers are sacked without lasting as late into the season as January for falling below where a club's owners/board feel they should be.

Lennon had something like 3 or 4 wins since October. We're now into February. I might even be being kind there and including the St Mirren win. One of those was against Elgin as well, so the record looks worse if you were of a mind to only include league wins (I'm not, so I'll include it).

It may not be failure, but it could be argued it was failing (if someone wanted to make that arguement).

[matty_f]

No - I mean if you only post negative stories laced with conspiracy theory and unsubstantiated attacks on the people running the club I support and fail ever to post after a win or a good performance then it is no wonder people will think your opinions are unbalanced.

There's also the claims about the users of this site (and the admins) for good measure. :greengrin

[IngolstadtHarry]

Is it just the term “failure” you object to? Or is it people questioning the managers performance this season at the half way mark? Were we wrong to jettison Stokes and Murray last season as their goal scoring and contribution shouldn’t have been judged up to January?

Both.
That wasn't the reason Stokes was sacked - but let's leave that one.
I don't believe a manager's performance or worth can be judged on half a season - it's as simple as that.

[HibeeHibernian4]

The post directly above this one is yet another mentioning the 8th position as a mark of failure.
A manager shouldn't be judged by results up to January.
Not ignored - but accepted as a work-in-progress.

The 'work-in-progress' was us sliding further and further down the table. :rolleyes:

[IngolstadtHarry]

There's also the claims about the users of this site (and the admins) for good measure. :greengrin

That sounds a little paranoid - especially since I made no such generalisation.
Some users, some admins, perhaps.

[Hibbyradge]

Both.
That wasn't the reason Stokes was sacked - but let's leave that one.
I don't believe a manager's performance or worth can be judged on half a season - it's as simple as that.

A number of people, including me, have pointed out that they wanted Lennon to stay, but he wasn't sacked for our team's poor league placing or performance.

He was suspended for doing something(s) not directly related to those issues. Just like Stokes was.

You don't seem to accept that and I suppose that's your perogative, but don't be surprised that others think you're wrong.

[The Modfather]

Both.
That wasn't the reason Stokes was sacked - but let's leave that one.
I don't believe a manager's performance or worth can be judged on half a season - it's as simple as that.

So we can’t judge a managers worth or performance over half a season but we can judge a players?

[silverhibee]

Has JK Rowling tweeted about this yet?

Does she like a night on the town with Lennon as well.

[IngolstadtHarry]

Ok there's one post. 1. Was it one of the usual suspects (whoever they are) that posted it?

2. Bear in mind that I'm speaking as someone who advocated keeping Lennon until the end of the season (this is verifiable, if you were inclined to check my posts) - 3. it's worth noting that loads of managers are sacked without lasting as late into the season as January for falling below where a club's owners/board feel they should be.

Lennon had something like 3 or 4 wins since October. 4. We're now into February. I might even be being kind there and including the St Mirren win. One of those was against Elgin as well, so the record looks worse if you were of a mind to only include league wins (I'm not, so I'll include it).

5. It may not be failure, but it could be argued it was failing (if someone wanted to make that arguement).

1. Possibly, I haven't been keeping track of all of the names.
2. Well, we can agree on that.
3. That neither makes it right nor advisable
4. He was sacked in January - but let's not split hairs.
5. I disagree with that. How do we know what would have happened had Lennon stayed? Could he have pulled off the Scott Allan early transfer? Do we feel more confident going into the game against Celtic with a new guy in charge?

I hope you don't mind my inserting numbers into your post so that I could coordinate my answers.

[Hibbyradge]

Does she like a night on the town with Lennon as well.

:Ummm: