Bullying

[Sergio sledge]

Given the events over the past couple of weeks and the rumours and speculation around what has been happening at the club I thought it was interesting that the subject of bullying in the workplace has been raised in some quarters. We don't know if what went on at Hibs amounted to bullying, but if the stories are true, Kamberi and some of the first team certainly thought so.

I thought that in todays society we were more aware of the impact words and actions can have on other people and more aware of how different people can react to different things, but was disappointed and a bit angry see these words from Gordon Strachan in the daily record this week https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gordon-strachan-neil-lennon-hibs-13928489


"I think it’s only a problem if the players themselves aren’t playing well, or if the team is losing. People who are successful talk about managers who drive them to the top, getting the most out of them. The ones that fail are the ones who say they got bullied.

"There’s a correlation between allegations of bullying and failure. I rarely see people who are successful and winning things come out and say they’re being bullied. The other phrase that keeps coming up is “being disrespected”.

"When I was a player, I was too busy working on winning something to justify having someone’s respect.

"Once you’ve done something, then you can worry about being respected."

Maybe I'm reading to much into things, but he's basically saying that if you complain about being bullied you are going to be a failure, which seems like a really irresponsible and insensitive thing to say. He seems to be feeding the narrative, that I've heard from a few people recently, that we are a generation of snowflakes now who can't take any criticism and have to be constantly praised to get anything out of. He also seems to think that most allegations of bullying are false, its just the weak individual not being able to take getting shouted at or "driven on to achieve more." Victim blaming more than anything IMHO.

Bullying is a serious thing and doesn't always involve a bit of shouting, it also doesn't mean that the victim of the bullying is weak or a failure. There are ways of getting the best from your staff without resorting to bullying, but Strachan doesn't seem to make the distinction between a bit of shouting and what is a serious issue.

Thankfully I've never been in a position where I've been bullied at work, but my wife works for NHS highland where there is an investigation ongoing after allegations of deep rooted bullying culture in the hospital and she has been on the receiving end of what has all the hallmarks of bullying from senior staff, even to the point where other colleagues said she should report it. She didn't, for fear of being labelled weak and for fear of the senior member of staff not getting dealt with and making things worse.


What are peoples experiences of workplace bullying, am I over reacting to what Strachan has said? Am I a snowflake?

[Pretty Boy]

When there was the discussion about the new Gillette advert recently it went down the route of a conspiracy about a 'feminist agenda'. I tried to make the point that it went deeper than that and challenged the mob mentality, uber masculine, alpha male attitude of some men; towards women and each other. I'm more than aware there are examples of female bullies as well but I'm making a point from personal experiences.

Let me be clear my group of mates can be absolutely brutal to each other at times. However we are all aware how far we can push it and there's rarely any real malice intended. I think people need to remember though that not everyone is the same and what is a harmless joke to one individual or group could be a far more serious issue or slur to another.

A few years back I worked in a job with a group of guys, one of whom was gay. He was always the target of jokes, smart comments and so on. There was more than a hint of the lynch mob laughter about it and one guy surrounded by 6 or 7 sneering faces must have felt intimidated. To my shame I went along with this and never challenged it even though I felt uncomfortable. He was a great guy though and laughed along with the jokes, took the comments in good spirits and never complained. Then one day he just didn't come back; no notice period, no goodbye, he was just gone. A few weeks later a few of the guys saw him in a pub and he blanked them, when they pursued it he told them to **** off and informed them that they had made his life a misery for a year. The joke didn't seem so funny then.

I don't think equating being bullied with being a failure should be taken lightly, it's a troublimg attitude. Taking issue with is doesn't make anyone a snowflake either.

[Smartie]

Not sure if this is the best place to bring this up, but its a thought that has been rumbling about in my mind over the past week.

It has become popular and acceptable to talk about footballers in a particular way - mollycoddled, namby-pamby, egotistical, overpaid, prima-donna snowflakes (you can come up with many more).

It is the snowflake and bullying part that I want to address. Footballers may be none or all of the above descriptions but what cannot be denied is that they are talented and very fit. To reach the level they do, they spend a lifetime seeing off competition left, right and centre. In my experience you don't manage to get anywhere near that level without being able to understand sacrifice, self-discipline and having the ability to cope with adversity, take blows and keep on fighting and have an ability to understand that some times you need to hear something that you don't want to hear for the good of your career and everyone around you.

I have a great deal of respect for the senior players at our club. A few of them have won medals at Hibs, a few of them have represented massive clubs, some of them have come through the ranks at the world's biggest clubs, some have represented their country on many occasions and some of them have battled the adversity of repeatedly coming back from injury. They are people collectively whose judgment I would trust.

It is too easy to decry "player power". Whoever the senior players involved were (and I'm not saying it was any of the following), Stevenson, Gray, McGregor, Whittaker, Milligan, Ambrose, Bogdan, Marciano and Hanlon will understand where a line is and when it is crossed, therefore whilst I wouldn't necessarily assume from the scant information we have that the Hibs players are a bunch of snowflakes who went greeting to the board when a colleague was faced with some tough words for the first time. (I included the likes of Milligan and Ambrose because they'll have been around our dressing room this season to witness what may or may not be doled out to our players and judge whether or not it is acceptable).

I know how journalists put stories together so I'd take an article in any paper with a pinch of salt. I don't think Strachan is defending bullying, but I do think he is pointing out a link between the ability of an individual to process negative feedback into a positive response. That is different from saying it is ok to carry out relentless, sustained, unacceptable bullying of a young man over a period of time.

I've now heard what went on last week (and over the past few months) from some pretty decent sources, and I'm content the best outcome has been achieved for Hibs. If what happened wasn't bullying, it wasn't far from it, and it certainly wasn't the man management expected of a "winner" in the year 2019, and not getting a positive response from the Hibs players with it certainly does not make them a "boy band".

[Fife-Hibee]

I think when you go into a profession such as this, you have to be prepared to give it absolutely everything and want to be the absolute best you can be. If you fold after some harsh words, then it's the wrong profession to be in.

You never hear the very best openly complain about a telling off. They turn up for their club week in, week out and they perform, regardless of whatever is going on in the background. That's why football is such a huge money game these days. You're expected to be something extraordinary and the only chance you have of reaching that level is through sheer will power and effort.

Are players bullied? More than likely. They have a manager who is also under pressure for them to perform and who will more than likely get harsh words themselves from the board if the players don't perform. Football is a shoogly peg business and it doesn't take much to fail.

[CapitalGreen]

You never hear the very best openly complain about a telling off. They turn up for their club week in, week out and they perform, regardless of whatever is going on in the background. That's why football is such a huge money game these days. You're expected to be something extraordinary and the only chance you have of reaching that level is through sheer will power and effort.

Chelsea in 2015/16 and Man Utd in 2018/19 suggest the are just 2 examples off the top of my head which refute the above.

If we look at players at the very top, Barcelona and Real Madrid both got rid of managers in order to keep Messi and Ronaldo happy.

[Fife-Hibee]

Chelsea in 2015/16 and Man Utd in 2018/19 suggest the are just 2 examples off the top of my head which refute the above.

If we look at players at the very top, Barcelona and Real Madrid both got rid of managers in order to keep Messi and Ronaldo happy.

Well the players we're talking about aren't at the very top and they never will be. They are nothing more than here today, gone tomorrow players who will find themselves either in the lower Scottish divisions or some conference league south or the border as they fade off into obscurity.

That's what happens to players who are unable to take responsibility for their own performances. They'll constantly look to point the finger elsewhere, whether that's at managers or at eachother. They don't really want to be any better than they are.

[Pretty Boy]

Chelsea in 2015/16 and Man Utd in 2018/19 suggest the are just 2 examples off the top of my head which refute the above.

If we look at players at the very top, Barcelona and Real Madrid both got rid of managers in order to keep Messi and Ronaldo happy.

There was a case involving the Miami Dolphins a few years back of some pretty vicious bullying in the dressing room. The NFL is a very cut throat business with big money and big pressure involved. There were sackings, suspensions and players cut. The story ended with the victim of the bullying being arrested after posting a picture of an automatic weapon and bullets on his Instagram and tagging the bullies in it with the caption 'it's either suicide or revenge'.

When you see extremes like that it's hard to understand how anyone can just shrug their shoulders and say players probably do get bullied but it's a high pressure environment.

[CapitalGreen]

Well the players we're talking about aren't at the very top and they never will be. They are nothing more than here today, gone tomorrow players who will find themselves either in the lower Scottish divisions or some conference league south or the border as they fade off into obscurity.

That's what happens to players who are unable to take responsibility for their own performances. They'll constantly look to point the finger elsewhere, whether that's at managers or at eachother. They don't really want to be any better than they are.

Well the managers we're talking about aren't at the very top and they never will be. They are nothing more than here today, gone tomorrow managers who will find themselves either in the lower Scottish divisions or some conference league south or the border as they fade off into obscurity.

That's what happens to managers who are unable to take responsibility for their own performances. They'll constantly look to point the finger elsewhere, whether that's at the board or at players. They don't really want to be any better than they are.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Well the managers we're talking about aren't at the very top and they never will be. They are nothing more than here today, gone tomorrow managers who will find themselves either in the lower Scottish divisions or some conference league south or the border as they fade off into obscurity.

That's what happens to managers who are unable to take responsibility for their own performances. They'll constantly look to point the finger elsewhere, whether that's at the board or at players. They don't really want to be any better than they are.

Excellent response. Im sick to death of reading how players should put up with any treatment a manager wishes to dish out and just accept it.

[Sergio sledge]

I don't think equating being bullied with being a failure should be taken lightly, it's a troublimg attitude. Taking issue with is doesn't make anyone a snowflake either.

This is my problem, maybe Strachan wasn't meaning that, but that's how it came across to me. It's pretty much enforcing the idea that if you feel like you are being bullied you shouldn't report it as you'll be seen to be weak and people will immediately tag you as a failure.

I think it may have been Kris Boyd on TV during the game on Sunday who said that Hibs had a culture problem because the players felt like they could go above the managers head to complain about treatment by their manager. He felt that they should be sorting it out with the manager instead. In my view, every workplace should have a route to report bullying, and if you are being bullied by your manager then you don't go to that manager to complain about it.

[Sergio sledge]

Not sure if this is the best place to bring this up, but its a thought that has been rumbling about in my mind over the past week.

It has become popular and acceptable to talk about footballers in a particular way - mollycoddled, namby-pamby, egotistical, overpaid, prima-donna snowflakes (you can come up with many more).

It is the snowflake and bullying part that I want to address. Footballers may be none or all of the above descriptions but what cannot be denied is that they are talented and very fit. To reach the level they do, they spend a lifetime seeing off competition left, right and centre. In my experience you don't manage to get anywhere near that level without being able to understand sacrifice, self-discipline and having the ability to cope with adversity, take blows and keep on fighting and have an ability to understand that some times you need to hear something that you don't want to hear for the good of your career and everyone around you.

I have a great deal of respect for the senior players at our club. A few of them have won medals at Hibs, a few of them have represented massive clubs, some of them have come through the ranks at the world's biggest clubs, some have represented their country on many occasions and some of them have battled the adversity of repeatedly coming back from injury. They are people collectively whose judgment I would trust.

It is too easy to decry "player power". Whoever the senior players involved were (and I'm not saying it was any of the following), Stevenson, Gray, McGregor, Whittaker, Milligan, Ambrose, Bogdan, Marciano and Hanlon will understand where a line is and when it is crossed, therefore whilst I wouldn't necessarily assume from the scant information we have that the Hibs players are a bunch of snowflakes who went greeting to the board when a colleague was faced with some tough words for the first time. (I included the likes of Milligan and Ambrose because they'll have been around our dressing room this season to witness what may or may not be doled out to our players and judge whether or not it is acceptable).

I know how journalists put stories together so I'd take an article in any paper with a pinch of salt. I don't think Strachan is defending bullying, but I do think he is pointing out a link between the ability of an individual to process negative feedback into a positive response. That is different from saying it is ok to carry out relentless, sustained, unacceptable bullying of a young man over a period of time.

I've now heard what went on last week (and over the past few months) from some pretty decent sources, and I'm content the best outcome has been achieved for Hibs. If what happened wasn't bullying, it wasn't far from it, and it certainly wasn't the man management expected of a "winner" in the year 2019, and not getting a positive response from the Hibs players with it certainly does not make them a "boy band".

I hadn't thought of it like that, and it could be what he is trying to say, maybe he just didn't articulate it very well.

Surely as a manager you should be trying to help your staff to be the best they can be and if you see a team member is struggling to cope with that side of things you don't double down on that sort of treatment, you work out what does motivate them and do that instead.

[Sergio sledge]

I think when you go into a profession such as this, you have to be prepared to give it absolutely everything and want to be the absolute best you can be. If you fold after some harsh words, then it's the wrong profession to be in.

You never hear the very best openly complain about a telling off. They turn up for their club week in, week out and they perform, regardless of whatever is going on in the background. That's why football is such a huge money game these days. You're expected to be something extraordinary and the only chance you have of reaching that level is through sheer will power and effort.

Are players bullied? More than likely. They have a manager who is also under pressure for them to perform and who will more than likely get harsh words themselves from the board if the players don't perform. Football is a shoogly peg business and it doesn't take much to fail.

Being under pressure isn't an excuse to bully people though. I accept that there may well be a time for harsh words. It wouldn't be my management style, but I understand that some times may warrant a shouting. That is different from bullying though, bullying isn't right, no matter what environment you are in and what sort of pressure you are under.

[hibsbollah]

In this case, Strachan is being asked about an issue bigger than football, which he's not really qualified to talk about with any authority, and his views deserves no more credence than those of a random bloke in the pub. And the way he's dealt with interviewers from time to time suggests he can be a bit of a bully himself.

[overdrive]

Before my time, so I might be wrong but did Strachan not have similar issues with Ferguson at Man Utd?