Scott Allan

[Hibeesmad]

We must of hurt Celtic really bad letting McGinn join Villa 😅😆

[The 90+2]

We didn’t. We accepted Celtics bid for SJ also.

I think we will hear about Allan’s release tomorrow.

[Diclonius]

Well, they can forget about getting Porteous or Kamberi if they're interested.

[DarlingtonHibee]

We didn’t. We accepted Celtics bid for SJ also.

I think we will hear about Allan’s release tomorrow.

No we called celtic bluff, we accept the offer from villa, John likes the club end of story

[Dight]

Celtic are welcome to a loan of Porteous for the next few monthes.

[davhibby]

No we called celtic bluff, we accept the offer from villa, John likes the club end of story

Celtic eventually offered the same as villa and we accepted but by then it was too late

[The 90+2]

No we called celtic bluff, we accept the offer from villa, John likes the club end of story

Once we accepted Villa we accepted them too. We didn’t call their bluff we rightly told them to gtf..

This goes down to Rod and Lawwell who’ve fallen out and ultimately if he’s not been released will cost Celtic money which he won’t even have to be accountable for.

[Hibeesmad]

We didn’t. We accepted Celtics bid for SJ also.

I think we will hear about Allan’s release tomorrow.

Hope so mate. The fact we haven’t released any statement gives me hope

[Hibeesmad]

You’d imagine that Allan must be fuming that a deal couldn’t be agreed. Doubt he will want to spend another 6/7 months without playing football

[The Baldmans Comb]

You’d imagine that Allan must be fuming that a deal couldn’t be agreed. Doubt he will want to spend another 6/7 months without playing football

He is 27 and barely played more than 120 top class games in his puff so a few more months won't bother him in the slightest.

[Nevi_SOL]

Statements out. No Allan 😢

[BegbieHSC]

Hope so mate. The fact we haven’t released any statement gives me hope

If he wasn’t released before midnight, then we won’t be able to sign him.

In saying that, I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if Celtic released him in the morning, knowing that we can’t sign him just to rub it in. Petty *******s!

[HoboHarry]

If he wasn’t released before midnight, then we won’t be able to sign him.

In saying that, I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if Celtic released him in the morning, knowing that we can’t sign him just to rub it in. Petty *******s!
They can't just release him, he's under contract. They would have to give him a pay off........

[BegbieHSC]

They can't just release him, he's under contract. They would have to give him a pay off........

Aye, that’s what I mean. Can genuinely see it, given Lawwell’s apparent attitude towards us.

[Hibeesmad]

Aye, that’s what I mean. Can genuinely see it, given Lawwell’s apparent attitude towards us.

Wouldn’t we then be able to sign him as a free agent though?

[HoboHarry]

Wouldn’t we then be able to sign him as a free agent though?
No. We can only sign him if he was released before the window closed.

[CMurdoch]

Scott Allan will be going nowhere now unless Celtic pay up his contract in full.
He couldn't sign with Hibs if this happened but he could come to the club, train and plan for next season.
Celtic have made their bed on this one. Plain daft.

[Stonewall]

I genuinely feel sorry for Allan in this business.

Pawn in a dick measuring competition between the ugly sisters and now being made to suffer because Lawwel is behaving like a petulant two year old.

just means we’ll be difficult to deal with if they come calling for Porto.

Pathetic.

[Jim44]

I’m the first to put the boot into Celtic and Lawwell for vindictiveness and pettiness but to be honest we don’t know the details of the attempted deal, if there was one. If Lawwell is as big a turd as we think he is and really wants to put us in our place, I wouldn’t be surprised if he decides to pay off SA in full, knowing that he can’t play for us, instead of paying him in wages and have him hang around Parkhead twiddling his thumbs.

[JimBHibees]

The other side of this is that Scott may be happy to be paid a Celtic wage for next few months then join us in the summer. Probably a big difference and amount to give up and the numbers probably didnt stack up for him.

[sean04]

I wonder if hibs and Allan can make a deal, take a pay off from Celtic and we will make up the difference in your wage with a signing on fee. Means Celtic get nothing

[Beefster]

I wonder if hibs and Allan can make a deal, take a pay off from Celtic and we will make up the difference in your wage with a signing on fee. Means Celtic get nothing

The payoff and release would need to have happened before midnight last night. If he’s still contracted, he’s as well sitting tight until the summer now.

Knowing what he’s going to contribute to us, a few months is nothing anyway.

[weecounty hibby]

Wonder what the press will make of this? Remember the headlines when we wouldn't sell him to der Hun? Surely there will be the same hysterical slaughtering of celtic for this? Nah, your right they'll just keep telling everyone that Hibs shafted Neil Lennon and how badly we treated him.

[JimBHibees]

The payoff and release would need to have happened before midnight last night. If he’s still contracted, he’s as well sitting tight until the summer now.

Knowing what he’s going to contribute to us, a few months is nothing anyway.

Agree frustrating as it is we just need to be patient hopefully allows Ryan Gauld to cement his place and show what he can do.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They can't just release him, he's under contract. They would have to give him a pay off........

And he would have to accept it. He’d be better staying there, collecting his wage and using the facilities to keep fit than sitting in the house with a partial settlement.

[The Green Sea]

Really odd situation. Between Hibs, Celtic and Allan I would have thought a sensible deal could be reached. Celtic get a reduced cost, Hibs get Alan and Allan gets to play. Sounds like common sense has been lost somewhere.

[Allant1981]

I read yesterday that we approached Celtic on Tuesday and they hadn't replied yesterday, if true then it's a pretty bad way to do business, can't remember what journo reported this

[Rosco86]

It would have been good to use the next few months to find out if Allan, Gauld and Mallan can all play in the same team. Worried it might leave us a bit unsure of our formation again for the start of next season, assuming we try to get Gauld back again.

[villahibs]

Scott Allan might be a bit annoyed with us too.. he didn’t even want to go to Celtic in the first place. Never really ends well dealing with the Glasgow pair.

[jacomo]

The other side of this is that Scott may be happy to be paid a Celtic wage for next few months then join us in the summer. Probably a big difference and amount to give up and the numbers probably didnt stack up for him.


I think this is what has happened. Although, for the clubs not to do a deal, either his Celtc contract is really good or Celtc are still being spiteful.

[Jim44]

And he would have to accept it. He’d be better staying there, collecting his wage and using the facilities to keep fit than sitting in the house with a partial settlement.

Could they still give him a pay off or a partial one, we chip in with a few bob and he could then use our facilities for training, spend his days amongst people who want and appreciate him and get to know his team-mates for a smooth start next season. That’s not the Celtic way, however.

[we are hibs]

Celtic and rangers are absolute children when it comes to domestic transfers. They think Scottish football exists purely to benefit them. It's about time teams started turning round to them and telling them to start paying the going rate rather than their pathetically low offers.

[Speedway]

Celtic also wouldn’t let Hayes join Aberdeen last night so it’s not just us.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Celtic and rangers are absolute children when it comes to domestic transfers. They think Scottish football exists purely to benefit them. It's about time teams started turning round to them and telling them to start paying the going rate rather than their pathetically low offers.

Their strategy has evolved from poaching key players then not playing them to manipulating the competition by supplying the also rans with with players to dilute the competition. It has been one aspect leading to a more competitive potion

[Jim44]

Celtic and rangers are absolute children when it comes to domestic transfers. They think Scottish football exists purely to benefit them. It's about time teams started turning round to them and telling them to start paying the going rate rather than their pathetically low offers.

To be factually accurate, wages, transfer fees etc. are lower in Scotland. Celtic and Rangers therefore expect to pick up the best players for lower prices than elsewhere. The infuriating thing is that they seem to delusionally think that they have first pick and option on any players they fancy.

[Bostonhibby]

Jeez this is petty stuff from Lawell I feel.

You'd think he'd be over it now that most of us have given them the I back and started calling celtc celtic again.[emoji6]

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[J-C]

Scott Allan might be a bit annoyed with us too.. he didn’t even want to go to Celtic in the first place. Never really ends well dealing with the Glasgow pair.


I think he knows his mistake and the main reason he wants to come back where he's appreciated.

[Libby Hibby]

I suppose, if reports of Celtic blanking advances for Allan are true, it boils down to do Celtic need us more than we need Celtic in the future?

Can both clubs afford the fall out? Granted, this has very little to do with Hibs and more to do with Celtics superiority complex.

[Monts]

I can't imagine Rodgers is too happy about it. He wanted to reduce his squad size, and Allan was an easy, no-loss player to get rid of.

[sorrow sorrow]

I think hibs have stood up to Celtic and rangers more than any other team in Scotland over the last 10/15 years.Not ideal not getting Allan in this window but getting him on a pre contract is still a great bit of business

[1van Sprou7e]

Apparently lawell can't stand Petrie - may have been a different story if Lennon was still here

[Hibbyradge]

Scott Allan might be a bit annoyed with us too.. he didn’t even want to go to Celtic in the first place. Never really ends well dealing with the Glasgow pair.

If he didn't want to go there, he didn't have to.

[loanheadhibby]

Or Hibs could have shown some ambition and actually paid Celtic what they wanted for him? Easy to criticise Celtic but if we can't put a deal together, why should they let him go.

[SquashedFrogg]

Or Hibs could have shown some ambition and actually paid Celtic what they wanted for him? Easy to criticise Celtic but if we can't put a deal together, why should they let him go.

How much would we have had to pay?

[Pretty Boy]

Or Hibs could have shown some ambition and actually paid Celtic what they wanted for him? Easy to criticise Celtic but if we can't put a deal together, why should they let him go.

Hibs tried to put a package together to negotiate with Celtic. Celtic didn't even give Hibs the courtesy of a response.

It's nothing to do with ambition and everything to do with Peter Lawells embarrassment at ****ing up the McGinn deal and his subsequent pettiness.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I can't imagine Rodgers is too happy about it. He wanted to reduce his squad size, and Allan was an easy, no-loss player to get rid of.

He's too busy talking about Lennon to anyone who'll listen.

[Jim44]

How much would we have had to pay?

If Lawwell had been willing to play ball, the scenario might have been - say SA was on £8k per week. Celtic could have contributed £5.5k and we could have contributed £2.5k. (SA might have taken a wee pay cut to facilitate the deal) But anyway, win, win win - Celtic pay less in the remainder of the season, we get our man and SA doesn’t lose a significant chunk of his wage.

Lawwell =. :dummytit::dummytit::dummytit:

[loanheadhibby]

Hibs tried to put a package together to negotiate with Celtic. Celtic didn't even give Hibs the courtesy of a response.

It's nothing to do with ambition and everything to do with Peter Lawells embarrassment at ****ing up the McGinn deal and his subsequent embarrassment.

It's everything to do with ambition. Lawell is a money man at the end of the day. If you have an asset you want to off load and someone offers enough, you sell. Simple as that.

[loanheadhibby]

How much would we have had to pay?

Too much obviously for Hibs

[J-C]

If Lawwell had been willing to play ball, the scenario might have been - say SA was on £8k per week. Celtic could have contributed £5.5k and we could have contributed £2.5k. (SA might have taken a wee pay cut to facilitate the deal) But anyway, win, win win - Celtic pay less in the remainder of the season, we get our man and SA doesn’t lose a significant chunk of his wage.

Lawwell =. :dummytit::dummytit::dummytit:


Or Celtic pay him off at £3k pw and we sign him for the same, he gets £6k till the end of the season and only drops £2k, not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things., Celtic are just being fannies.

[Pretty Boy]

It's everything to do with ambition. Lawell is a money man at the end of the day. If you have an asset you want to off load and someone offers enough, you sell. Simple as that.

So if I am selling an item you want to buy, you make an offer and I refuse to even acknowledge it multiple times that would indicate a lack of ambition on your part rather than show me up as a bit of a dick?

[SquashedFrogg]

Too much obviously for Hibs

So then I don't understand your point.

[loanheadhibby]

So then I don't understand your point.

Sorry mate, can't really really simplify it any further for you.

[Greenworld]

Hibs did not have a barginning point with Celtic as you need two parties to talk.

Celtic did not even have the courtesy of acknowledging hibs.

So pig headed is lawell that he would rather loose more money than deal with hibs

Remeber he will be seething that allan has signed for hibs already.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[loanheadhibby]

So if I am selling an item you want to buy, you make an offer and I refuse to even acknowledge it multiple times that would indicate a lack of ambition on your part rather than show me up as a bit of a dick?

If I am that interested in something you have and I desperately want it, I'll make you an offer you can't refuse. If you're not interested in selling to me, i'll not run about blaming the big guy over there.

[MWHIBBIES]

Why are Celtic getting all the blame, Allan could accept a lower wage?

[SquashedFrogg]

Sorry mate, can't really really simplify it any further for you.

So let me get this.

Celtic wanted more money than Hibs were prepared to pay. And you are upset because Hibs never paid Celtic an amount of money they weren't prepared to pay?

Odd.

[LeithMike]

Kind of agree with LH here. Celtic are perfectly entitled not to sell and it's up to Hibs to make an offer they can't refuse. A lot of us (including me) were perfectly happy when we refused Celtic's offers for McGinn and would have actually preferred to have sold him south no matter what Celtic offered (as they are our direct competitor). Dont see how we can expect it any different when the shoe is on the other foot.

Celtic would have got McGinn if they made an offer we couldn't refuse. Likewise, us for Allan. That is business. I do feel sorry for Allan as he is treated like a commodity but he agreed the contract and is paid well.

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[Beefster]

If I am that interested in something you have and I desperately want it, I'll make you an offer you can't refuse. If you're not interested in selling to me, i'll not run about blaming the big guy over there.

If you are definitely getting that something in a few months for nothing and it’s not critical to get it now, would you really pay over the odds now?

[ScottB]

Why are Celtic getting all the blame, Allan could accept a lower wage?

Because the media reports last night where that we had approached Celtic, but they didn't bother to respond, so there was no negotiation. Maybe Allan would have, Celtic didn't give him the chance.

[loanheadhibby]

So let me get this.

Celtic wanted more money than Hibs were prepared to pay. And you are upset because Hibs never paid Celtic an amount of money they weren't prepared to pay?

Odd.

Maybe too complex for you? They have an asset we supposedly want, we don't offer enough so they refuse to sell. They prefer to keep said asset.

You can't blame Celtic or anyone else. I'm not upset at all. We get Allan in summer but I'm not crying that the big boy would not give us what we want.

[blackpoolhibs]

Could Allan regret signing that pre contract now Lennon is no longer at the club?

Perhaps he's had 2nd thoughts and is looking to get out of it now things have changed at Easter Road?

[Jim44]

Bottom line, despite whichever way Commons, Hartson, Hartley et al might want to interpret the situation, Celtic and particularly Lawwell come out of it smelling of keech.

[SquashedFrogg]

Maybe too complex for you? They have an asset we supposedly want, we don't offer enough so they refuse to sell. They prefer to keep said asset.

You can't blame Celtic or anyone else. I'm not upset at all. We get Allan in summer but I'm not crying that the big boy would not give us what we want.

So why bother bleating on about lack of ambition if you aren't upset?

That's the odd part.

[Jim44]

Could Allan regret signing that pre contract now Lennon is no longer at the club?

Perhaps he's had 2nd thoughts and is looking to get out of it now things have changed at Easter Road?

I don’t think that’s the case. Anyway, I’m pretty certain that with a half decent Lawyer, a player could step away from a pre-contract.

The Enforceability of Pre-Contracts in Football
Posted on 23 July 2014
The advent of the transfer window and the Bosman ruling in 1995, which enables players to agree to join a new club six months before the player’s contract with his present club is due to expire, has meant that pre-contracts between clubs and players have become increasingly common. Pre-contracts come in many different forms but generally speaking, it is an agreement providing for the player to join the club on a future date.

The nature of a pre-contract can often lead to the parties misinterpreting its legal effect and disputes can arise when one party fails to honour its obligations under the pre-contract. For instance in January 2013, Richard Brittain signed a pre-contract with St Johnstone ahead of a move to the club in the summer from Ross County. However, Richard Brittain subsequently changed his mind about the transfer for personal reasons and signed a new contract with Ross County. St Johnstone insisted that Richard Brittain was bound to the pre-contract that he had signed and threatened legal action against Richard Brittain for breach of contract.

Are Pre-Contracts binding?

The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding.

FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber (‘DRC’) has had to determine on a number of occasions whether a pre-contract has binding effect when a dispute between a club and a player has arisen. The DRC has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration and additional benefits. Another factor taken into account by the DRC is whether the pre-contract has come into effect. If the pre-contract has been terminated prior to when it is due to take effect, then the DRC has been reluctant to find that the pre-contract is binding, whilst if the parties have already begun to perform their obligations under the pre-contract prior to any termination, then this is usually evidence to prove that the parties intended to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract.

In an attempt to release themselves from the obligations under a pre-contract, parties have attempted to allege that the validity of a pre-contract was conditional upon a player successfully completing a medical or obtaining a work permit. However, the DRC has rejected all such arguments on the basis that Article 18(4) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players 2012 prevents the validity of a contract between a player and a club being “subject to a successful medical examination and/or the grant of a work permit”.

Conclusion

The dispute involving Richard Brittain was ultimately resolved after Ross County agreed to pay St Johnstone compensation. In order to avoid similar disputes, clubs and players should exercise caution when entering into pre-contracts, as there is a risk of the parties being bound by the pre-contract at an earlier stage than they intended. A breach of a pre-contract without just cause would entitle the innocent party to compensation, and is likely lead to sporting sanctions being imposed on the party in breach in accordance with Article 17 of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players. If the parties do not intend to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract, then they should expressly state that the document is not the final contract and that its terms are not intended to be legally binding.

Clubs that consider signing a player who has signed a pre-contract with another club should also tread carefully, as the club and the player would be jointly and severally liable for any compensation payable if the player is found to have breached the pre-contract without just cause (Article 17(2) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players 2012). Sporting sanctions can also be imposed on the club for inducing the player to breach the pre-contract as there is a presumption, unless established to the contrary, “that any club signing a professional who has terminated his contract without just cause has induced that professional to commit a breach” (Article 17(4) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players).

[18Craig75]

It would’ve been nice to have Allan back in January - but do we really need him right now? Yes build the team around him in the summer, but right now we have Mallan, Gauld, Slivka, Horgan and Omeongya who can all play that no10 role.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

I just can’t see that Celtic would happily pay Allan 8k a week, or whatever it is, for the rest of the season if they had an opportunity to get rid of him.

Could the issue be that Allan didn’t want to drop any of his money over that period and we just couldn’t reach an agreement of what we’d cover and what Celtic would cover?

[blackpoolhibs]

I don’t think that’s the case. Anyway, I’m pretty certain that with a half decent Lawyer, a player could step away from a pre-contract.

The Enforceability of Pre-Contracts in Football
Posted on 23 July 2014
The advent of the transfer window and the Bosman ruling in 1995, which enables players to agree to join a new club six months before the player’s contract with his present club is due to expire, has meant that pre-contracts between clubs and players have become increasingly common. Pre-contracts come in many different forms but generally speaking, it is an agreement providing for the player to join the club on a future date.

The nature of a pre-contract can often lead to the parties misinterpreting its legal effect and disputes can arise when one party fails to honour its obligations under the pre-contract. For instance in January 2013, Richard Brittain signed a pre-contract with St Johnstone ahead of a move to the club in the summer from Ross County. However, Richard Brittain subsequently changed his mind about the transfer for personal reasons and signed a new contract with Ross County. St Johnstone insisted that Richard Brittain was bound to the pre-contract that he had signed and threatened legal action against Richard Brittain for breach of contract.

Are Pre-Contracts binding?

The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding.

FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber (‘DRC’) has had to determine on a number of occasions whether a pre-contract has binding effect when a dispute between a club and a player has arisen. The DRC has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration and additional benefits. Another factor taken into account by the DRC is whether the pre-contract has come into effect. If the pre-contract has been terminated prior to when it is due to take effect, then the DRC has been reluctant to find that the pre-contract is binding, whilst if the parties have already begun to perform their obligations under the pre-contract prior to any termination, then this is usually evidence to prove that the parties intended to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract.

In an attempt to release themselves from the obligations under a pre-contract, parties have attempted to allege that the validity of a pre-contract was conditional upon a player successfully completing a medical or obtaining a work permit. However, the DRC has rejected all such arguments on the basis that Article 18(4) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players 2012 prevents the validity of a contract between a player and a club being “subject to a successful medical examination and/or the grant of a work permit”.

Conclusion

The dispute involving Richard Brittain was ultimately resolved after Ross County agreed to pay St Johnstone compensation. In order to avoid similar disputes, clubs and players should exercise caution when entering into pre-contracts, as there is a risk of the parties being bound by the pre-contract at an earlier stage than they intended. A breach of a pre-contract without just cause would entitle the innocent party to compensation, and is likely lead to sporting sanctions being imposed on the party in breach in accordance with Article 17 of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players. If the parties do not intend to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract, then they should expressly state that the document is not the final contract and that its terms are not intended to be legally binding.

Clubs that consider signing a player who has signed a pre-contract with another club should also tread carefully, as the club and the player would be jointly and severally liable for any compensation payable if the player is found to have breached the pre-contract without just cause (Article 17(2) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players 2012). Sporting sanctions can also be imposed on the club for inducing the player to breach the pre-contract as there is a presumption, unless established to the contrary, “that any club signing a professional who has terminated his contract without just cause has induced that professional to commit a breach” (Article 17(4) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players).

I have no idea either way on this, it was just another suggestion. I personally dont think Allan is innocent in all this either, but would anyone like to lose the money he'd lose?

It's just 3 parties not being able to reach an agreement.

All 3 would lose money in the deal, we move on and he comes in the summer (hopefully) we probably dont need him as much at the moment with Gauld and Mallan playing in a similar position. :greengrin

[jacomo]

Maybe too complex for you? They have an asset we supposedly want, we don't offer enough so they refuse to sell. They prefer to keep said asset.

You can't blame Celtic or anyone else. I'm not upset at all. We get Allan in summer but I'm not crying that the big boy would not give us what we want.


I think it’s weird, personally.

Someone like Kamara would probably have played most games if he stayed at Dundee until June, so it makes sense that Sevco have compensated Dundee for taking their player now.

Scott Allan’s Celtc career never got going and is already over. Why are Celtc hanging onto him? A loan until the end of his contact would save them some money, or they could have asked for a small fee from us to help offset the cost of paying him off.

Ah well.

[J-C]

I just can’t see that Celtic would happily pay Allan 8k a week, or whatever it is, for the rest of the season if they had an opportunity to get rid of him.

Could the issue be that Allan didn’t want to drop any of his money over that period and we just couldn’t reach an agreement of what we’d cover and what Celtic would cover?


Allan has a contract with Celtic, he's happy to come here in the summer for probably less money than they are giving him, he may have accepted a pay off now to make up for the loss of a potential £160k wage he would've got by staying at Celtic, Celtic didn't even want to do business with us. If we had bought Allan now from Celtic we'd have to offer a large signing on fee to make up for his loss in wages, so in essence we'd be covering his full wage and also giving Celtic money for him, they win we lose.

[GreenPJ]

I have no idea either way on this, it was just another suggestion. I personally dont think Allan is innocent in all this either, but would anyone like to lose the money he'd lose?

It's just 3 parties not being able to reach an agreement.

All 3 would lose money in the deal, we move on and he comes in the summer (hopefully) we probably dont need him as much at the moment with Gauld and Mallan playing in a similar position. :greengrin

Am not sure 3 parties would lose money based on what they are contracted to pay. Celtic pay Allan his contractual entitlement. We pay Celtic some money to release him from his contract therefore offsetting some of what they were contracted to pay anyway and Hibs for their outlay get access to the player for last half of season and Allan actually scores by getting Hibs salary plus full contractual pay out. In theory it would only be Hibs that would be out of pocket by 6 months of wages and some payment to Celtic but on the basis we think that is good value for money as we can play/integrate him earlier.

[BlackSheep]

There is still an emergency loan that could be used to get him for a few months isn’t there??

[malcolm]

He is now a Celtc liability costing them thousands each week for no return. So as they were not going to offer a new contract and knew he was going elsewhere his status as an asset up to 31 Jan was pretty much theoretical not practical.

Hibs were unlikely to pay celtc anything significant to buy him so close to his sell by date. We might have made a contribution to his pay in a loan period that may have come with restrictions on playing against them.

Celtc should have paid off his contract and released him as the best financial option for them - that they did not seems to indicate that they are being petty and pathetic with more money than sense. The pre-contract looks like Hibs knew what to expect.

To use celtc’s pettiness as a stick to beat Hibs seems nonsensical.

[Monts]

There is still an emergency loan that could be used to get him for a few months isn’t there??

I don't think so

[BoomtownHibees]

Surely it would have even made sense for them to have loaned him to us for the rest of the season with us paying a proportion of his wage?

So rather than them paying 50/60% of his wage and us the rest, they keep him and have to pay full whack. Makes no sense

[The Harp Awakes]

Could Allan regret signing that pre contract now Lennon is no longer at the club?

Perhaps he's had 2nd thoughts and is looking to get out of it now things have changed at Easter Road?

Clearly Lennon would have been the one pushing for SA to be signed on a pre-contract. If you believe what's been said in the past, it was the Hibs board that did a U turn on the SA deal last Summer, for whatever reason. As Lennon left before the end of this transfer window, any momentum to get SA in this January would have stalled.

As already mentioned by others, the timing of this act of self-destruction between the Manager and the Board could hardly have been worse. We desperately needed to make significant, lasting signings to give us some stability over the coming seasons, and yet again we end up with last minute 6 month, loanees of questionable ability. Whilst I can understand the angle around not signing players on a longer term basis due to us having no Manager, we are in this situation through self-harm, caused by poor decision making.

[Forza Fred]

There is still an emergency loan that could be used to get him for a few months isn’t there??

I didn’t think emergency loans were allowed in the top division?

[Northernhibee]

Clearly Lennon would have been the one pushing for SA to be signed on a pre-contract. If you believe what's been said in the past, it was the Hibs board that did a U turn on the SA deal last Summer, for whatever reason. As Lennon left before the end of this transfer window, any momentum to get SA in this January would have stalled.

As already mentioned by others, the timing of this act of self-destruction between the Manager and the Board could hardly have been worse. We desperately needed to make significant, lasting signings to give us some stability over the coming seasons, and yet again we end up with last minute 6 month, loanees of questionable ability. Whilst I can understand, the angle about not signing players on a longer term basis due to us having no Manager, we are in this situation through self-harm, caused by poor decision making.

Gauld, McNulty, Johnson and Bigirimana aren’t of questionable quality. Omeonga is less of a known quantity to us but has a better pedigree on paper than Paul Levesque.

We’ve signed well in a tough window despite being let down by two individuals who potentially left us high and dry.

[loanheadhibby]

Surely it would have even made sense for them to have loaned him to us for the rest of the season with us paying a proportion of his wage?

So rather than them paying 50/60% of his wage and us the rest, they keep him and have to pay full whack. Makes no sense

What makes sense is that he is Celtics player and it was entirely their decision if they keep him or not. Maybe Allan was told he could go without settlement from Celtic and he opted to stay. He may be entitled to a loyalty bonus at end of his contract?

[loanheadhibby]

I think it’s weird, personally.

Someone like Kamara would probably have played most games if he stayed at Dundee until June, so it makes sense that Sevco have compensated Dundee for taking their player now.

Scott Allan’s Celtc career never got going and is already over. Why are Celtc hanging onto him? A loan until the end of his contact would save them some money, or they could have asked for a small fee from us to help offset the cost of paying him off.

Ah well.

Possibly is weird. £50k to Dundee is a lot of cash. Whereas £50-£100k to Celtic is a drop in the ocean. As I said earlier, who is to say it was Celtic. Maybe Scott is happy to sit tight and take the dosh. Footballers have a short career.

[The Harp Awakes]

Gauld, McNulty, Johnson and Bigirimana aren’t of questionable quality. Omeonga is less of a known quantity to us but has a better pedigree on paper than Paul Levesque.

We’ve signed well in a tough window despite being let down by two individuals who potentially left us high and dry.

I'm referring to the last minute signings we made post Lennon's departure. McNulty, Johnson and Bigirimana were not getting a game at their respective Clubs. Given their pedigree, McNulty and Johnson may be good enough for the Scottish Premiership, but that is by no means certain. Even if they were, given the pace of the Scottish game, it could take them a good part of their short term contract to adapt. Bigirimana couldn't get a game in a poor Rangers team or regularly feature for Motherwell so looks like the Rherras signing last year; may fill a gap if we're stretched.

In terms of the 2 individuals letting us down, I'm not sure who you are referring to, but there's has been zero information coming from Hibs to know who is to blame. The jury is out unless you have some inside information?

[loanheadhibby]

So why bother bleating on about lack of ambition if aren't upset?

That's the odd part.

My point on this is as others have said. Everyone is blaming Celtic which is an easy get out clause. What about Scott Allan and our role tho. Too easy to blame everyone else. If you want something, go and get it. Make it happen.

[sorrow sorrow]

Possibly is weird. £50k to Dundee is a lot of cash. Whereas £50-£100k to Celtic is a drop in the ocean. As I said earlier, who is to say it was Celtic. Maybe Scott is happy to sit tight and take the dosh. Footballers have a short career.
I think most players at this level would stay an extra 6 months for double the salary,seems obvious Celtic weren’t going to give him a pay off so can totally understand Allan staying till the summer.Can also see hibs point not offering silly money,it’s a pity but at least we have a player signed up that we all wanted

[G B Young]

Could Allan regret signing that pre contract now Lennon is no longer at the club?

Perhaps he's had 2nd thoughts and is looking to get out of it now things have changed at Easter Road?

I'd be surprised if he was having second thoughts. Given that it was Stubbs not Lennon who signed him first time round and he was superb in both spells at the club it seems to me it's Hibs and not one particular manager who brings out the best in him. The fact he's hung about on the fringes at Celtic for so long (albeit picking up a big wage) before finally getting a permanent move to Hibs makes me think he's had his heart set on coming back to this club above any other.

[Allant1981]

My point on this is as others have said. Everyone is blaming Celtic which is an easy get out clause. What about Scott Allan and our role tho. Too easy to blame everyone else. If you want something, go and get it. Make it happen.

Celtic didn't reply to hibs offer to get Allan, we approached them at the start of the week and didn't even bother replying

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm referring to the last minute signings we made post Lennon's departure. McNulty, Johnson and Bigirimana were not getting a game at their respective Clubs. Given their pedigree, McNulty and Johnson may be good enough for the Scottish Premiership, but that is by no means certain. Even if they were, given the pace of the Scottish game, it could take them a good part of their short term contract to adapt. Bigirimana couldn't get a game in a poor Rangers team or regularly feature for Motherwell so looks like the Rherras signing last year; may fill a gap if we're stretched.

In terms of the 2 individuals letting us down, I'm not sure who you are referring to, but there's has been zero information coming from Hibs to know who is to blame. The jury is out unless you have some inside information?

Surely you are not so naive that you just think Hibs decided to get rid of the manager and his assistant for no reason at all?

We will not know the reason for this, we will get rumours and the odd bit of speculation about why they have gone, but you can be 100% sure that the club did not just wake up and say, **** it, lets put the club in turmoil and sack the management team just for the hell of it.

[Jim44]

Possibly is weird. £50k to Dundee is a lot of cash. Whereas £50-£100k to Celtic is a drop in the ocean. As I said earlier, who is to say it was Celtic. Maybe Scott is happy to sit tight and take the dosh. Footballers have a short career.

Even more so when their career involves not even playing. :greengrin

[The Harp Awakes]

Surely you are not so naive that you just think Hibs decided to get rid of the manager and his assistant for no reason at all?

We will not know the reason for this, we will get rumours and the odd bit of speculation about why they have gone, but you can be 100% sure that the club did not just wake up and say, **** it, lets put the club in turmoil and sack the management team just for the hell of it.

Hibs statement states NL was not sacked and had not resigned. I think all you can conclude from that is that there has been a big fall out between the Manager and the Board and they have parted ways. What caused that fall out I have no idea. Only those involved will know.

[Partyraiser]

Could Allan regret signing that pre contract now Lennon is no longer at the club?

Perhaps he's had 2nd thoughts and is looking to get out of it now things have changed at Easter Road?

I heard chat the other day that if stubbs gets the job full time allan will cancel the precontract as they fell out at Rotherham!

[hibbyfraelibby]

There is still an emergency loan that could be used to get him for a few months isn’t there??

Not in the Premiership

[loanheadhibby]

Celtic didn't reply to hibs offer to get Allan, we approached them at the start of the week and didn't even bother replying

Says who? Have either Hibs or Celtic confirmed this or is it hear say on a message board? And what was our offer? Maybe it was derisory and didn't merit a reply. I have no idea to be honest.

[Allant1981]

Says who? Have either Hibs or Celtic confirmed this or is it hear say on a message board? And what was our offer? Maybe it was derisory and didn't merit a reply. I have no idea to be honest.

Various journalists saying it yesterday so no not hearsay on a message board

[marinello59]

Various journalists saying it yesterday so no not hearsay on a message board

What if those various journalists used the message boards as their source?

[flash]

Amazing how some people, when presented with a choice of who to blame for a situation they don't have a clue about, decide that it must be the team that they supports fault.

[Lago]

Celtic didn't reply to hibs offer to get Allan, we approached them at the start of the week and didn't even bother replying
Where is that information coming from ? I haven't seen anything other than on this forum. Is it a .net rumour?
You say various jurnalist, can you name them?

[matty_f]

Amazing how some people, when presented with a choice of who to blame for a situation they don't have a clue about, decide that it must be the team that they supports fault.

:agree: it's a weird phenomenon.

[flash]

Where is that information coming from ? I haven't seen anything other than on this forum. Is it a .net rumour?
You say various jurnalist, can you name them?

It was definitely reported on Twitter by journalists last night. Sorry as I can't remember who.

[loanheadhibby]

Amazing how some people, when presented with a choice of who to blame for a situation they don't have a clue about, decide that it must be the team that they supports fault.

Amazing how some people who don't have a clue, do not just follow the propaganda but decide to see it from all aspects rather than one that suits their own.

[matty_f]

Amazing how some people who don't have a clue, do not just follow the propaganda but decide to see it from all aspects rather than one that suits their own.

:hilarious

Where is this propaganda?

[loanheadhibby]

:hilarious

Where is this propaganda?

oh oh, speling Nazis are here.

[flash]

Amazing how some people who don't have a clue, do not just follow the propaganda but decide to see it from all aspects rather than one that suits their own.

Hibs haven't said a word about this.

[Allant1981]

Where is that information coming from ? I haven't seen anything other than on this forum. Is it a .net rumour?
You say various jurnalist, can you name them?

Darrel Currie, the sun newspaper, BBC sports website

[Bostonhibby]

I heard chat the other day that if stubbs gets the job full time allan will cancel the precontract as they fell out at Rotherham!Aw naw. Bad news, you're not really a party raiser at all on this one.



Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Allant1981]

What if those various journalists used the message boards as their source?

They quite possibly did but I hadn't seen it on here so the first place I seen it was on my Twitter feed yesterday

[Lago]

Darrel Currie, the sun newspaper, BBC sports website
Thanks for that.:agree:

[Jim44]

I heard chat the other day that if stubbs gets the job full time allan will cancel the precontract as they fell out at Rotherham!

So what? Folk fall out, folk make up. In the unlikely case of this arising, I’m sure it’s a bridge we would cross when we came to it. Handbags at ten paces. :greengrin

[matty_f]

oh oh, speling Nazis are here.

Eh? Who mentioned spelling?

You said people believe the propaganda, I was just asking where that was?

[KWJ]

oh oh, speling Nazis are here.

One of the more bizarre posts on .net.

:hnet:

[Beefster]

oh oh, speling Nazis are here.

Had to happen eventually. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

[yonder1875]

Why are Celtic getting all the blame, Allan could accept a lower wage?

😂

[matty_f]

Had to happen eventually. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

:hilarious

[MWHIBBIES]

😂

Something funny?

[ahibby]

What are the chances if Darnell Johnson has a good half season with us they try and get him in the summer?

[LiviHibee]

Appears that Celtic are still harbouring a grudge, why retain a player they have no intention of playing? Apart from a fee they would also save wages.

[Hibeesmad]

What are the chances if Darnell Johnson has a good half season with us they try and get him in the summer?

They have already got a defender in from Leicester so they are probably aware of him already. If he does have a brilliant half season with us it wouldn’t surprise me. However I think this boy is destined for first team football at Leicester going by some Leicester fans opinions

[Partyraiser]

So what? Folk fall out, folk make up. In the unlikely case of this arising, I’m sure it’s a bridge we would cross when we came to it. Handbags at ten paces. :greengrin

Just passing on what I'd heard! Apparently Lennon and him had been out for dinner before it all kicked off to lay out how allan would fit into future plans and he's not best pleased lennons gone. The same person also said that hibs offered to cover allans wages in full until the end of the season to get him in now and lawell knocked us back, dick!

[Sioux]

Just passing on what I'd heard! Apparently Lennon and him had been out for dinner before it all kicked off to lay out how allan would fit into future plans and he's not best pleased lennons gone. The same person also said that hibs offered to cover allans wages in full until the end of the season to get him in now and lawell knocked us back, dick!

What’s this got to do SA and Stubbs falling out?

You’ve now come up with two totally different reasons why SA will not go through with his pre-contract.

Strange

[Partyraiser]

What’s this got to do SA and Stubbs falling out?

You’ve now come up with two totally different reasons why SA will not go through with his pre-contract.

Strange
Prior to lennon leaving hibs had an offer to cover allans full wages knocked back. Now that lennon has gone, allan would consider cancelling the pre contract if stubbs is named as gaffer full time. Does that make sense or is it still "strange"?

[flash]

One thing puzzles me. If he is reconsidering due to Lennons departure why is he not out on loan or signed for another club?

[BILLYHIBS]

Was at the game yesterday allegedly

[Hibernian Verse]

Was at the game yesterday allegedlyHibs tweeted a pic of him there

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[CMurdoch]

Was shown at yesterdays match during BBC Alba broadcast

[ShadesLongThrow]

What are the chances if Darnell Johnson has a good half season with us they try and get him in the summer?

I agree but he's got to get a game for us first. And we have a bit of a track record of signing defenders that are never seen on the pitch.

[BILLYHIBS]

I thought we missed him badly on Saturday

Does anyone know if we tried to get him in before the window slammed shut or did Celtic still blank us or play hardball?

Yes we we have similiar players on board as Scotty but none with the same quality of touch or eye for the killer pass

My fear is that we might live to regret not getting this deal over the line especially if Stubbsy comes back?

[Peevemor]

I thought we missed him badly on Saturday

Does anyone know if we tried to get him in before the window slammed shut or did Celtic still blank us or play hardball?

Yes we we have similiar players on board as Scotty but none with the same quality of touch or eye for the killer pass

My fear is that we might live to regret not getting this deal over the line especially if Stubbsy comes back?

Eddie May said in an interview at the end of last week that “The one who didn’t come in was Scott [Allan] and we tried desperately until the last minute on that one.

“But Celtic thought he might be better staying there and we have to respect that but Scott will come in for pre-season in July."

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/scott-allan-hibs-transfer-news-15766901

[BILLYHIBS]

Eddie May said in an interview at the end of last week that “The one who didn’t come in was Scott [Allan] and we tried desperately until the last minute on that one.

“But Celtic thought he might be better staying there and we have to respect that but Scott will come in for pre-season in July."

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/scott-allan-hibs-transfer-news-15766901

Thanks for that

At least we tried

Might explain why he was at the match on Saturday at least he wants to be here

[Jim44]

Why do Celtic think SA would be better staying at Parkhead for the moment?

[Peevemor]

Why do Celtic think SA would be better staying at Parkhead for the moment?

For me it can only be spite. A loan deal would definitely have been to their advantage - it would have been better for Celtic if Hibs were stronger against their nearest rivals but not against them given SA wouldn't be playing.

[I'm Spartacus]

Why do Celtic think SA would be better staying at Parkhead for the moment?

VERY strange one for me. He can't play against them but can help take points of those chasing them, guessing something has hurt them behind the scenes!

[BILLYHIBS]

The John McGinn effect!

If they are happy paying SA 10k a week for sitting on his erchie up until 30/6/19 hell mend them!

[Steven79]

For me it can only be spite. A loan deal would definitely have been to their advantage - it would have been better for Celtic if Hibs were stronger against their nearest rivals but not against them given SA wouldn't be playing.

They would rather pay roughly £160,000 than have Scott Allan play against Rangers possibly twice which is bonkers.

I hope we have no more transfer dealings with them as they have shown themselves to be nothing but a spiteful bully

[Unseen work]

Weird how big an effect one player has on our team, seems to completely change things when he plays and will be a huge player for us in the summer for years to come.

Some players just seem to suit certain clubs.

[where'stheslope]

Celtic have previous for this with Christie, he was at Aberdeen on loan, looked to be emptied from Parkhead, now he's one of their top players.
If it comes down to money Scott has only one option if on offer, but if he wants to play football he's welcome here!!!!

[superfurryhibby]

Prior to lennon leaving hibs had an offer to cover allans full wages knocked back. Now that lennon has gone, allan would consider cancelling the pre contract if stubbs is named as gaffer full time. Does that make sense or is it still "strange"?

Strange or *****, does it matter? Hibs would never be covering Allan’s full wage, such obvious bollocks.

Next.......

[beensaidbefore]

Strange or *****, does it matter? Hibs would never be covering Allan’s full wage, such obvious bollocks.

Next.......

No need

[King Dominique]

Shocking he wasn’t brought in over the summer.

[blackpoolhibs]

Shocking he wasn’t brought in over the summer.


:shocked::shocked::shocked:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Shocking he wasn’t brought in over the summer.

With the Timing of Pasquale Bruno... :)

[green day]

Shocking he wasn’t brought in over the summer.

I give you another week, tops

[Heisenberg]

Eddie May chucked in a wee dig at Celtc regarding Allan in his pre match press conference. Someone brought up their injuries and he basically said “aye they’ve got a hell of a lot of injuries, so much so they might actually have to bring back Scott Allan and put him in a squad”

[The 90+2]

Celtic have previous for this with Christie, he was at Aberdeen on loan, looked to be emptied from Parkhead, now he's one of their top players.
If it comes down to money Scott has only one option if on offer, but if he wants to play football he's welcome here!!!!


He's already signed for next season (and 3 after that) :confused:

[hibbysam]

Eddie May chucked in a wee dig at Celtc regarding Allan in his pre match press conference. Someone brought up their injuries and he basically said “aye they’ve got a hell of a lot of injuries, so much so they might actually have to bring back Scott Allan and put him in a squad”

Also had a dig at McInnes saying if Saturday was so comfortable then their players wouldn’t have needed to foul and fall their way through the game.