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Liberal Hibby
30-01-2019, 04:37 PM
Suspension lifted: http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/9671

Doubles all round (for the lawyers at least).

H18 SFR
30-01-2019, 04:39 PM
Jim Traynor working freelance now or something?

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:41 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

007
30-01-2019, 04:41 PM
That'll be that then.

H18 SFR
30-01-2019, 04:42 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

Interesting, I took it as it had been written by legal eagles to quell any need for rumours and heresay etc.

Northernhibee
30-01-2019, 04:42 PM
Hmmmm.

davym7062
30-01-2019, 04:42 PM
Must be a massive bulge in the carpet with all the muck swept under it

The 90+2
30-01-2019, 04:43 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

Pish. Dempster has acted in the best interests of the club.

BSEJVT
30-01-2019, 04:43 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

I have some magic beans for sale, guaranteed to work, want to buy them?

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:44 PM
Pish. Dempster has acted in the best interests of the club.

If the club just said they done nothing wrong then why were they suspended? They've basically just admitted they were wrong to suspend them.

Northernhibee
30-01-2019, 04:44 PM
Must be a massive bulge in the carpet with all the muck swept under it

Yep. Sad to see a minority on social media blaming the players/Flo.

hibeerealist
30-01-2019, 04:44 PM
Suspension lifted: http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/9671

Doubles all round (for the lawyers at least).

As expected.

We are all still in the dark then. So what happened? Why have we lost a very good manager and his no 2 whilst paying up their contracts in full and now having to find another manager with the transfer window closing?

Whole thing makes no sense and surely HFC should give their paying customers a clear explanation of just what has gone on. All this hiding behind “legal process” etc is very convenient for the club but leaves the fans, once again, in the dark but hey ho who cares eh.

matty_f
30-01-2019, 04:44 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

In what way?

Aim Here
30-01-2019, 04:44 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

I think this is always going to be the path of least resistance for most employers with an expensive, high-profile employee to sack. It's almost always going to be easier to pay them off than to go through a protracted tribunal where, even if you win, it'll still cost you more than just making a settlement.

The ease of sacking someone outright is pretty much inversely proportional to their access to expensive lawyers.

SeanWilson
30-01-2019, 04:45 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending themCouldn't be more obvious that it's a true 'mutual' agreement. He's taken a 'deal' to walk away in return for Hibs not dragging his name through the muck. We've done the right thing in order to avoid further comments and hearsay from a disgruntled man and his pals.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:45 PM
I have some magic beans for sale, guaranteed to work, want to buy them?



Just the way I read it and interpreted it.

matty_f
30-01-2019, 04:46 PM
As expected.

We are all still in the dark then. So what happened? Why have we lost a very good manager and his no 2 whilst paying up their contracts in full and now having to find another manager with the transfer window closing?

Whole thing makes no sense and surely HFC should give their paying customers a clear explanation of just what has gone on. All this hiding behind “legal process” etc is very convenient for the club but leaves the fans, once again, in the dark but hey ho who cares eh.

How do you know that the contracts have been paid up in full?

When did Hibs hide behind "legal process"? I've not seen this mentioned by anyone at the club since Friday. In fact, Hibs didn't say very much at all - they didn't hide behind anything, they just didn't say anything until there was something to say.

HoboHarry
30-01-2019, 04:46 PM
If the club just said they done nothing wrong then why were they suspended? They've basically just admitted they were wrong to suspend them.
You're not a lawyer are you? They didn't say anything of the sort....

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 04:46 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

Only you could interpret it like that.

It's clearly a separation which has been cobbled together by the lawyers which saves NLs reputation, and undoubtedly saves Hibs either an employment tribunal or s costly severance package.

It's how it's done.

The 90+2
30-01-2019, 04:47 PM
Interesting, I took it as it had been written by legal eagles to quell any need for rumours and heresay etc.

Same. And the fact it’s Rod that placed everything on record shows there was a massive fall out and also it gives Lennon a clean slate wherever he goes and has ultimately got the way out I’ve been suspecting he’s wanting for months. Doesn’t do reputation harm couldn’t handle him being “a winner” and results on the pitch this season completely overlooked.

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:47 PM
In what way?

They said that they were cleared of any wrong doing. If that's the case then why were they suspended.

Hibeesmad
30-01-2019, 04:47 PM
My take on it is that Lennon has told the club he doesn’t think he can take us any further forward with what we have. Both parties then agree it’s best if they moved on.

ballengeich
30-01-2019, 04:47 PM
As expected.

We are all still in the dark then. So what happened? Why have we lost a very good manager and his no 2 whilst paying up their contracts in full and now having to find another manager with the transfer window closing?



Do we know that about the contracts? There may have been a compromise to allow things to speed up.

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:48 PM
You're not a lawyer are you? They didn't say anything of the sort....

No I'm not and I didn't claim to be either. They said they were cleared of any wrong doing..Why were they suspended then?

H18 SFR
30-01-2019, 04:48 PM
If the club just said they done nothing wrong then why were they suspended? They've basically just admitted they were wrong to suspend them.

Do you actually believe that statement is in any way a reflection of what has happened? Serious question!

douglashibs
30-01-2019, 04:48 PM
If the club just said they done nothing wrong then why were they suspended? They've basically just admitted they were wrong to suspend them.

Disagree. It’s in everyone’s interests that this doesn’t go to a legal fight.

heid the baw
30-01-2019, 04:49 PM
Mutual consent. He was happy to go (hinted at it last season) Club were happy for him to go (recent pish results and unhappy dressing room)

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:49 PM
Only you could interpret it like that.

It's clearly a separation which has been cobbled together by the lawyers which saves NLs reputation, and undoubtedly saves Hibs either an employment tribunal or s costly severance package.

It's how it's done.


Don't patronise me.

I'm not an expert in employment law. I was giving my interpretation of that statement and the fact they said they done nothing wrong.

I'm Spartacus
30-01-2019, 04:49 PM
"They have not been dismissed and have not resigned"

This made me LOL. How do you break an employment contract without either taking place? Deary me. Anyway, we move on.

The 90+2
30-01-2019, 04:50 PM
They said that they were cleared of any wrong doing. If that's the case then why were they suspended.

No they said it has been lifted as part of the agreement (settlement).

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:50 PM
Do you actually believe that statement is in any way a reflection of what has happened? Serious question!

So the club are lying to the fans then?

Sioux
30-01-2019, 04:50 PM
Same. And the fact it’s Rod that placed everything on record shows there was a massive fall out and also it gives Lennon a clean slate wherever he goes and has ultimately got the way out I’ve been suspecting he’s wanting for months. Doesn’t do reputation harm couldn’t handle him being “a winner” and results on the pitch this season completely overlooked.

There are no facts in this post.

H18 SFR
30-01-2019, 04:50 PM
Don't patronise me.

I'm not an expert in employment law. I was giving my interpretation of that statement and the fact they said they done nothing wrong.

I certainly don't wish to offend or patronise you, it's not my style, but you have to wake up and smell the coffee mate.

WhileTheChief..
30-01-2019, 04:51 PM
They said that they were cleared of any wrong doing. If that's the case then why were they suspended.

Exactly. You don’t just suspend your manager for no reason at all.

The 90+2
30-01-2019, 04:51 PM
"They have not been dismissed and have not resigned"

This made me LOL. How do you break an employment contract without either taking place? Deary me. Anyway, we move on.

With mutual consent?

Ralphy C
30-01-2019, 04:51 PM
I think its quite significant that its Rod and not Leanne that has made that statement on behalf of the board.

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
Okay so we no longer take hibs at face value then. Just so I know

H18 SFR
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
So the club are lying to the fans then?

Mate cmon, seriously, you must appreciate its a statement drafted by lawyers to save face for those involved. You must see that.

BSEJVT
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
Just the way I read it and interpreted it.

Exactly my point

People see what they expect to / want to see

A wee bit thought might lead you to deduce that the issue / fall out is nipped in the bud and everyone moves on with their reputations intact.

Hibs play the game and reduce their financial exposure for acquiescing in the mutual consent decision.

Oh and Lennon and Parker leave as they were always going to.

You would have got extremely short odds on this being the way this played out right from the minute it started.

MrRobot
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
As expected.

We are all still in the dark then. So what happened? Why have we lost a very good manager and his no 2 whilst paying up their contracts in full and now having to find another manager with the transfer window closing?

Whole thing makes no sense and surely HFC should give their paying customers a clear explanation of just what has gone on. All this hiding behind “legal process” etc is very convenient for the club but leaves the fans, once again, in the dark but hey ho who cares eh.

Will they have paid their contracts up in full if it’s mutual consent? I wouldn’t have thought so.

lapsedhibee
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
"They have not been dismissed and have not resigned"

This made me LOL. How do you break an employment contract without either taking place?
By mutual consent? :dunno:

bigwheel
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
I know the nosey part of us would like to know what really happened..but frankly:

a) it's none of our business
b) protecting the club and allowing us to move on is much more important


Delighted it is resolved - quicker than it could have been

Hope we see some new players in asap and a new manager soon.

Back to the football!

CapitalGreen
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
Lennon and Parker have accepted a lower pay off in return for a statement absolving them of any blame that could cause them reputational damage.

matty_f
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
Don't patronise me.

I'm not an expert in employment law. I was giving my interpretation of that statement and the fact they said they done nothing wrong.

No offence, but I'm calling BS on that statement about the employment law.

The 90+2
30-01-2019, 04:52 PM
There are no facts in this post.

Why isn’t it the person that appointed him thanking him then?

HoboHarry
30-01-2019, 04:53 PM
So the club are lying to the fans then?
FFS. Get real, the relationship had broken down and they had to come up with a compromise statement so that both parties could move on. This really isn't difficult.

McIntosh
30-01-2019, 04:54 PM
If the Club had a cast iron case which they clearly didn't, they would not have put out that statement. The Chief Executive was not in a strong a position as she believed herself to be in.

BSEJVT
30-01-2019, 04:54 PM
Okay so we no longer take hibs at face value then. Just so I know

You should never take anything at face value

Life is full of compromise, horse trading and hidden agendas

Bangkok Hibby
30-01-2019, 04:54 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them

Doesn't in any way suggest that. This is a "lets all shake hands and walk away deal"
No mud slinging, no protracted arguing over rights, wrongs, money, contracts. It makes perfect sense.

hibeerealist
30-01-2019, 04:54 PM
How do you know that the contracts have been paid up in full?

When did Hibs hide behind "legal process"? I've not seen this mentioned by anyone at the club since Friday. In fact, Hibs didn't say very much at all - they didn't hide behind anything, they just didn't say anything until there was something to say.

What have they said exactly?

Have they told us anything (other than MC)? Whether the contracts were paid in full or even 70% for instance it is a very expensive process and fans should be entitled to be told WHY?

The statement states they did nothing wrong, were not dismissed, did not resign etc etc is that not hiding behind legal process? If not, then tell us why they are not managing HFC anymore and why the club are paying them to leave (they certainly will not be leaving with no pay)?

Why does that sound so unreasonable to you?

matty_f
30-01-2019, 04:54 PM
They said that they were cleared of any wrong doing. If that's the case then why were they suspended.

They were suspended so that an allegation could be investigated.

If the police arrest you on suspicion of a crime, and then investigate and realise they've got the wrong guy, they clear you of any wrong doing and release you.

In this case, an allegation against Lennon needed to be investigated, it was right to suspend him, and after investigation there was found to be no wrongdoing.

It happens a lot.

JeMeSouviens
30-01-2019, 04:55 PM
Don't patronise me.

I'm not an expert in employment law. I was giving my interpretation of that statement and the fact they said they done nothing wrong.

Here's the statement:


The management team of Neil Lennon and Garry Parker has left the club by mutual consent.

They have not been dismissed and have not resigned.

The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement. Despite widespread speculation, the club confirms that neither Neil nor Garry has been guilty of any misconduct or wrongdoing and no disciplinary process has been commenced.

However, Neil, Garry and the club now consider that it would be in the best interests of all parties to part amicably.

It doesn't say they've done nothing wrong. They couldn't be found guilty before a disciplinary process commenced. They have settled with the club and now there won't be one. It's cleverly worded for all sides to save face.

660
30-01-2019, 04:55 PM
They said that they were cleared of any wrong doing. If that's the case then why were they suspended.

They weren’t cleared. They “had never been guilty” of any wrong doing because the investigation that would have found them guilty didn’t take place.

CapitalGreen
30-01-2019, 04:55 PM
If the Club had a cast iron case which they clearly didn't, they would not have put out that statement. The Chief Executive was not in a strong a position as she believed herself to be in.

Alternatively, the club did not want embroiled in a case which would have an adverse effect on our primary objective of winning football matches.

Liberal Hibby
30-01-2019, 04:55 PM
Lennon and Parker have accepted a lower pay off in return for a statement absolving them of any blame that could cause them reputational damage.

That's how I see it too.

BSEJVT
30-01-2019, 04:55 PM
Will they have paid their contracts up in full if it’s mutual consent? I wouldn’t have thought so.

Who says they have?

bigwheel
30-01-2019, 04:55 PM
So the club are lying to the fans then?


come on...you know that isn't the case - they are simply not saying what caused the incident - because frankly fans knowing the details in not important - the club needs to move on, as do the coaches - matter resolved.

The 90+2
30-01-2019, 04:57 PM
They were suspended so that an allegation could be investigated.

If the police arrest you on suspicion of a crime, and then investigate and realise they've got the wrong guy, they clear you of any wrong doing and release you.

In this case, an allegation against Lennon needed to be investigated, it was right to suspend him, and after investigation there was found to be no wrongdoing.

It happens a lot.

Not really. The way it’s worded was the suspension was lifted as per of the settlement.

Pete
30-01-2019, 04:57 PM
I know the nosey part of us would like to know what really happened..but frankly:

a) it's none of our business
b) protecting the club and allowing us to move on is much more important


Delighted it is resolved - quicker than it could have been

Hope we see some new players in asap and a new manager soon.

Back to the football!

Spot on.

No hard feelings and we move onto an exciting new era.

hibsbollah
30-01-2019, 04:57 PM
They were suspended so that an allegation could be investigated.

If the police arrest you on suspicion of a crime, and then investigate and realise they've got the wrong guy, they clear you of any wrong doing and release you.

In this case, an allegation against Lennon needed to be investigated, it was right to suspend him, and after investigation there was found to be no wrongdoing.

It happens a lot.



:agree:...a guy who looked awfy like Lennon but was a merely lookalike clearly threw the chair at Kamberi and threw homophobic abuse at key protagonists. Obviously a case of mistaken identity.

Allegedly.

James70
30-01-2019, 04:59 PM
Maybe certain things were said in the meeting between NL and LD which led to the suspension but at the end of the day it was just one person's word against another's?

GloryGlory
30-01-2019, 04:59 PM
Pish. Dempster has acted in the best interests of the club.

:agree:

"I demand a statement about NL/GP".

Joint statement by Hibs and NL/GP.

"No, that's not the statement I want".

Seriously, you just can't please some people

Malthibby
30-01-2019, 04:59 PM
I know the nosey part of us would like to know what really happened..but frankly:

a) it's none of our business
b) protecting the club and allowing us to move on is much more important


Delighted it is resolved - quicker than it could have been

Hope we see some new players in asap and a new manager soon.

Back to the football!
That'll do for me.:agree:

Bristolhibby
30-01-2019, 04:59 PM
If the club just said they done nothing wrong then why were they suspended? They've basically just admitted they were wrong to suspend them.

Or as happens in the real world, he was going to be sacked pending an investigation and this gave Lenny the opportunity to “fall on his sword” and leave with honour. Jump before you are pushed.

Hibs and Lennon avoid a protracted round of mud slinging and the outcome is the same. Both parties can move on.

All the best guys and thank you for getting us back where we belong in the Premier League.

J

matty_f
30-01-2019, 05:00 PM
What have they said exactly?

Have they told us anything (other than MC)? Whether the contracts were paid in full or even 70% for instance it is a very expensive process and fans should be entitled to be told WHY?

The statement states they did nothing wrong, were not dismissed, did not resign etc etc is that not hiding behind legal process? If not, then tell us why they are not managing HFC anymore and why the club are paying them to leave (they certainly will not be leaving with no pay)?

Why does that sound so unreasonable to you?

Sorry, we're not entitled to be told that - someone's earnings and severance package is between that person and their employer.

Hibs haven't said much - they specifically didn't say they couldn't say anything because of "legal process" which was the point that was used.

They're not managing Hibs any more because both parties agreed it was in their best interests to part ways.

It could be that they think the relationship is irreperably damaged, but there's no grounds for dismissal and Lennon didn't want to resign - presumably there would be resignation terms in his contract that neither party wanted to be held to.

Here’s Lucy!
30-01-2019, 05:00 PM
Mate cmon, seriously, you must appreciate its a statement drafted by lawyers to save face for those involved. You must see that.

:aok: Absolutely correct.

MrRobot
30-01-2019, 05:01 PM
Who says they have?

The poster I quoted.

hibeerealist
30-01-2019, 05:02 PM
They were suspended so that an allegation could be investigated.

If the police arrest you on suspicion of a crime, and then investigate and realise they've got the wrong guy, they clear you of any wrong doing and release you.

In this case, an allegation against Lennon needed to be investigated, it was right to suspend him, and after investigation there was found to be no wrongdoing.

It happens a lot.

NL would, rightly, have serious reservations (to put it mildly) about returning had said “investigation” found him innocent. The minute LD suspended him and Parker it was over whichever way you dress it up, guilty until proved innocent????

Whole thing has been a mess and cost the club a very good manager, his no 2 and a shed load of money that could have been spent elsewhere given we are always looking for more money/income.

HoboHarry
30-01-2019, 05:02 PM
Sorry, we're not entitled to be told that - someone's earnings and severance package is between that person and their employer.

Hibs haven't said much - they specifically didn't say they couldn't say anything because of "legal process" which was the point that was used.

They're not managing Hibs any more because both parties agreed it was in their best interests to part ways.

It could be that they think the relationship is irreperably damaged, but there's no grounds for dismissal and Lennon didn't want to resign - presumably there would be resignation terms in his contract that neither party wanted to be held to.
You are too bright to be an admin :greengrin

Tornadoes70
30-01-2019, 05:02 PM
Couldn't be more obvious that it's a true 'mutual' agreement. He's taken a 'deal' to walk away in return for Hibs not dragging his name through the muck. We've done the right thing in order to avoid further comments and hearsay from a disgruntled man and his pals.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

:top marks

Correct.

What occurred has been resolved pragmatically whereby avoiding acrimonious costly dispute.

The outcome is one widely predicted on here by a number of folk who are well aware of this type of process.

Well done to the board and best wishes to Lenny and his team wherever they end up.

Onwards and upwards.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

ginger_rice
30-01-2019, 05:03 PM
Why isn’t it the person that appointed him thanking him then?

If LD was involved with the alleged incident then she couldn't be involved with the investigation process it would have to be investigated by someone above her pay grade I reckon.

matty_f
30-01-2019, 05:03 PM
Not really. The way it’s worded was the suspension was lifted as per of the settlement.

Point remains that it can be the right thing to suspend someone even if they are later found to have done nothing wrong.

we are hibs
30-01-2019, 05:03 PM
:agree:

"I demand a statement about NL/GP".

Joint statement by Hibs and NL/GP.

"No, that's not the statement I want".

Seriously, you just can't please some people

Well firstly I wasn't going about "demanding statements" or anything like that. Secondly I didn't want Lennon as hibs manager so why would I defend him? I'm just saying the way I read it was that they had been guilty of no wrong doing.

hibbyfraelibby
30-01-2019, 05:05 PM
For what its worth my view is that the contract between Lennon and Parker and the club had a break clause in it whereby if both parties agreed then said contract could be terminated on a no blame basis.

The grounds for either party seeking to trigger that clause, and the agreement of the other party accepting those grounds, will be confidential and I would assume has been what has been exercising both sides legal teams over the past few days.

hibeerealist
30-01-2019, 05:05 PM
Sorry, we're not entitled to be told that - someone's earnings and severance package is between that person and their employer.

Hibs haven't said much - they specifically didn't say they couldn't say anything because of "legal process" which was the point that was used.

They're not managing Hibs any more because both parties agreed it was in their best interests to part ways.

It could be that they think the relationship is irreperably damaged, but there's no grounds for dismissal and Lennon didn't want to resign - presumably there would be resignation terms in his contract that neither party wanted to be held to.

I will leave it there you seem to be happy with what you are told, what you are not told and happy to take issue with those who don’t happily accept this.

EVENTUALLY
30-01-2019, 05:05 PM
My take on it is that Lennon has told the club he doesn’t think he can take us any further forward with what we have. Both parties then agree it’s best if they moved on.

Exactly my take on things too. There was clearly a major stooshie when a lot of things were said by various parties but this would be the straw that broke the camel's back. Shame really, as I think Lenny could have a done a lot more with a few decent signings.

BSEJVT
30-01-2019, 05:06 PM
What have they said exactly?

Have they told us anything (other than MC)? Whether the contracts were paid in full or even 70% for instance it is a very expensive process and fans should be entitled to be told WHY?

The statement states they did nothing wrong, were not dismissed, did not resign etc etc is that not hiding behind legal process? If not, then tell us why they are not managing HFC anymore and why the club are paying them to leave (they certainly will not be leaving with no pay)?

Why does that sound so unreasonable to you?

You have probably the least apt user name in history

You are not a realist, maybe an idealist but definitely not a realist

Do we get that info when players are sold / released / bought?

The idea that fans should be told everything down to nut and bolt detail is completely unworkable and absolute fantasy.

The Shareholders appoint the board who appoint the executive management

The management are answerable to the board who in turn are answerable to the shareholders on an extremely broad brush basis.

The idea that folk seem to think they have a right to know everything about anything (especially in a situation that one or all of the parties involved don't want to disclose) and cant get their heads round this staggers me.

It's an absolute certainty that the agreement signed between them specifically precludes all parties from commenting further.

Folk can bleat all they want about need to know and it wont change a single thing

Pete
30-01-2019, 05:06 PM
See if anyone asks for “transparency” I swear to god...

Swedish hibee
30-01-2019, 05:06 PM
Leanne is not one to air stuff in public, and I don't expect her to start now. And let's get behind the new manager whoever it may be.

hibsbollah
30-01-2019, 05:07 PM
See if anyone asks for “transparency” I swear to god...

...You'll do time?:greengrin

oldbutdim
30-01-2019, 05:07 PM
Daily ****** View :

"The Edinburgh club have now confirmed Lennon's tenure as boss is over – and insisted he did nothing wrong in an incredible climbdown."

:rolleyes:

Leith Green
30-01-2019, 05:10 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them



Eh?

Bristolhibby
30-01-2019, 05:10 PM
For what its worth my view is that the contract between Lennon and Parker and the club had a break clause in it whereby if both parties agreed then said contract could be terminated on a no blame basis.

The grounds for either party seeking to trigger that clause, and the agreement of the other party accepting those grounds, will be confidential and I would assume has been what has been exercising both sides legal teams over the past few days.

You can do that with a contract anyway. There doesn’t need to be provision in the contract. Both parties just terminate by mutual consent.

Happens in all walks of life.

J

jacomo
30-01-2019, 05:12 PM
:agree:

"I demand a statement about NL/GP".

Joint statement by Hibs and NL/GP.

"No, that's not the statement I want".

Seriously, you just can't please some people


Hibs have made a total mess of this from a communications point of view. Really awful. Radio silence and then an incoherent statement that raises more questions than it answers.

However, the more important thing is that all sides agree it was time to split up and we need to move on.

I am sure the players will be ok. We just need to focus on appointing a new gaffer and getting some signings across the line now.

The Leith Dutch
30-01-2019, 05:13 PM
I know the nosey part of us would like to know what really happened..but frankly:

a) it's none of our business
b) protecting the club and allowing us to move on is much more important


Delighted it is resolved - quicker than it could have been

Hope we see some new players in asap and a new manager soon.

Back to the football!

Spot on post :agree:

matty_f
30-01-2019, 05:14 PM
NL would, rightly, have serious reservations (to put it mildly) about returning had said “investigation” found him innocent. The minute LD suspended him and Parker it was over whichever way you dress it up, guilty until proved innocent????

Whole thing has been a mess and cost the club a very good manager, his no 2 and a shed load of money that could have been spent elsewhere given we are always looking for more money/income.

At no point did Hibs say Lennon was guilty of anything.

In fact, the only time that the suspension was mentioned by Hibs was today to confirm that it had been lifted and that he was specifically not guilty.

If there had been a case to answer, and Hibs wanted to see it through, a disciplinary process would have taken place and at that point Hibs would decide if they considered Lennon guilty of whatever the allegation was.

Simply suspending someone doesn't imply guilt - if folk want to read that into it then there's not much can be done about that, but from an employer's point of view suspending someone doesn't mean that they're guilty.

Allant1981
30-01-2019, 05:15 PM
I know the nosey part of us would like to know what really happened..but frankly:

a) it's none of our business
b) protecting the club and allowing us to move on is much more important


Delighted it is resolved - quicker than it could have been

Hope we see some new players in asap and a new manager soon.

Back to the football!

If you are a shareholder then it is your business

matty_f
30-01-2019, 05:17 PM
I will leave it there you seem to be happy with what you are told, what you are not told and happy to take issue with those who don’t happily accept this.

What?

I'm happy that I can use what I know and have experienced with disciplinary processes to work out what's happened.

You bash on being angry at the world.

hibeerealist
30-01-2019, 05:17 PM
I
You have probably the least apt user name in history

You are not a realist, maybe an idealist but definitely not a realist

Do we get that info when players are sold / released / bought?

The idea that fans should be told everything down to nut and bolt detail is completely unworkable and absolute fantasy.

The Shareholders appoint the board who appoint the executive management

The management are answerable to the board who in turn are answerable to the shareholders on an extremely broad brush basis.

The idea that folk seem to think they have a right to know everything about anything (especially in a situation that one or all of the parties involved don't want to disclose) and cant get their heads round this staggers me.

It's an absolute certainty that the agreement signed between them specifically precludes all parties from commenting further.

Folk can bleat all they want about need to know and it wont change a single thing

You can call it bleating and I have never said nor expect every nut and bolt of the detail, however, the club have told us nothing other than what we know - NL and GP are no longer with us.

IF all this carry on has cost us the services of a very good manager, his no 2 and money we cannot afford to throw away (or pay two people to do the same job) then to expect a bit more than we are being told is fantasy??

This has all the hallmarks of a real mess up

Jones28
30-01-2019, 05:18 PM
:agree:

"I demand a statement about NL/GP".

Joint statement by Hibs and NL/GP.

"No, that's not the statement I want".

Seriously, you just can't please some people

Well said, accept it and move on ffs

GloryGlory
30-01-2019, 05:18 PM
Simply suspending someone doesn't imply guilt - if folk want to read that into it then there's not much can be done about that, but from an employer's point of view suspending someone doesn't mean that they're guilty.

:agree: It could just be two parties needing breathing space to consider the best way forward and whether the relationship is worth continuing.

JeMeSouviens
30-01-2019, 05:19 PM
At no point did Hibs say Lennon was guilty of anything.

In fact, the only time that the suspension was mentioned by Hibs was today to confirm that it had been lifted and that he was specifically not guilty.

If there had been a case to answer, and Hibs wanted to see it through, a disciplinary process would have taken place and at that point Hibs would decide if they considered Lennon guilty of whatever the allegation was.

Simply suspending someone doesn't imply guilt - if folk want to read that into it then there's not much can be done about that, but from an employer's point of view suspending someone doesn't mean that they're guilty.

True, but by the same token lifting a suspension and paying someone off on agreed terms before a disciplinary process has commenced doesn't mean they didn't do anything wrong in the first place. It might just be cheaper/more convenient.

jacomo
30-01-2019, 05:19 PM
Daily ****** View :

"The Edinburgh club have now confirmed Lennon's tenure as boss is over – and insisted he did nothing wrong in an incredible climbdown."

:rolleyes:


There will be more of this to come, no doubt.

matty_f
30-01-2019, 05:22 PM
True, but by the same token lifting a suspension and paying someone off on agreed terms before a disciplinary process has commenced doesn't mean they didn't do anything wrong in the first place. It might just be cheaper/more convenient.

Totally, I've been involved in situations where someone has been suspended and ultimately an agreement to part ways has come about prior to any disciplinary hearings because it was a better outcome all round.

In those cases, it let the person leave on their terms without the stigma of a dismissal on their CV.

BSEJVT
30-01-2019, 05:24 PM
I

You can call it bleating and I have never said nor expect every nut and bolt of the detail, however, the club have told us nothing other than what we know - NL and GP are no longer with us.

IF all this carry on has cost us the services of a very good manager, his no 2 and money we cannot afford to throw away (or pay two people to do the same job) then to expect a bit more than we are being told is fantasy??

This has all the hallmarks of a real mess up

Its no different to the change of any other manager or the sale of any player surplus to requirements

Would you expect to be told anything more then?

Lets suppose that Hibs had simply decided Lennon & Parker simply were no longer up to the job and sacked them, this would be maybe harsh but not unreasonable, but that wasn't what happened.

They would in those circumstances have to pay up the rest of their contracts and you wouldn't be told a thing then.

What's the difference?

With a bit thought and reading between the lines it wouldn't be unreasonable to deduce that both parties want to get out with dignity intact and the quid pro quo from Hibs perspective is that they will have negotiated a reduced pay out if any, in exchange for a few meaningless platitudes.

I really don't get what's so difficult about this.

BILLYHIBS
30-01-2019, 05:29 PM
Its no different to the change of any other manager or the sale of any player surplus to requirements

Would you expect to be told anything more then?

Lets suppose that Hibs had simply decided Lennon & Parker simply were no longer up to the job and sacked them, this would be maybe harsh but not unreasonable, but that wasn't what happened.

They would in those circumstances have to pay up the rest of their contracts and you wouldn't be told a thing then.

What's the difference?

With a bit thought and reading between the lines it wouldn't be unreasonable to deduce that both parties want to get out with dignity intact and the quid pro quo from Hibs perspective is that they will have negotiated a reduced pay out if any, in exchange for a few meaningless platitudes.

I really don't get what's so difficult about this.

This

Mutual consent with a reduced settlement

I would not be surprised if a confidentiality agreement is part of the settlement

The Leith Dutch
30-01-2019, 05:31 PM
Sorry, we're not entitled to be told that - someone's earnings and severance package is between that person and their employer.

Hibs haven't said much - they specifically didn't say they couldn't say anything because of "legal process" which was the point that was used.

They're not managing Hibs any more because both parties agreed it was in their best interests to part ways.

It could be that they think the relationship is irreperably damaged, but there's no grounds for dismissal and Lennon didn't want to resign - presumably there would be resignation terms in his contract that neither party wanted to be held to.

Bit on bold is spot on - there's a lot of folks here who think that employment law and basic confidentiality is somehow suspended because Football club to Supporter mysteriously confers some kind of holy virtue upon what is basically a Business to paying Customer relationship.

If I book for a restaurant because I hear the Chef is a ****ing wizard in the kitchen only to find out at meal time that said Chef is no longer employed I am not suddenly entitled to know the ins and outs of his severance package or the reasons they parted company because I'm springing for the tasting menu and a bottle of red.

Hibs/Lennon agreed a deal, something that happens all the time in business at senior level, that allows both parties to say there was nothing to see here and move on with their business/career. The usual legal term for the document is a compromise agreement and it has an NDA and a series of legally binding points governing the prohibition of negative comments about the other party.

And as with any example of these deals it often, by it's very nature as a "compromise" agreement, smells of horse**** which in turn causes people to invent their own version of events.
The papers will variously put the boot into us and/or into Lennon depending on what their chosen narrative is - belittling Hibs or belittling Neil Lennon.

At this stage it suited both parties to part company and this is the smartest way to resolve it from a business point of view however much it sticks in the craw of folks on the forum.

Silversand
30-01-2019, 05:35 PM
Well firstly I wasn't going about "demanding statements" or anything like that. Secondly I didn't want Lennon as hibs manager so why would I defend him? I'm just saying the way I read it was that they had been guilty of no wrong doing.Never believe anything from lawyers [emoji6]

This is a joint statement from Hibs & Lennons/Parkers lawyers.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

bigwheel
30-01-2019, 05:37 PM
If you are a shareholder then it is your business


I don't think you understand obligations to shareholders...

McIntosh
30-01-2019, 05:40 PM
It is certain that both parties will have non-discloures written into the settlements.

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 05:41 PM
The most significant words in that statement seem to have been overlooked.

It says, "The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

That suggests that NLs lawyers agreed to go quietly/cheaply, if the suspension was lifted. It suggests they asked for it to be lifted.

It doesn't suggest Hibs were in the wrong to suspend. In fact, it suggests Hibs were in a strong position.

There's every chance that Hibs agreed to lift the suspension so they could get on with recruiting a replacement for NL, without all the distraction of disciplinary proceedings, and the damaging press coverage that would go with it.

Hibs also held NL in high regard. He may have overstepped the mark, but that doesn't mean we had to throw him under a bus.

This is a decent end to an unfortunate period.

Northern Hibby
30-01-2019, 05:45 PM
If the club just said they done nothing wrong then why were they suspended? They've basically just admitted they were wrong to suspend them.

Mutual consent = less money from the club, and we never repeat what was said, everybody happy say aye!

Danderhall Hibs
30-01-2019, 05:46 PM
Totally, I've been involved in situations where someone has been suspended and ultimately an agreement to part ways has come about prior to any disciplinary hearings because it was a better outcome all round.

In those cases, it let the person leave on their terms without the stigma of a dismissal on their CV.

I agree with all of your posts on this. Question though - have you ever let anyone write their own leaving statement saying how good they are just before you kick them out of the door? :greengrin

JohnMcM
30-01-2019, 05:47 PM
The most significant words in that statement seem to have been overlooked.

It says,"The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

That suggests that NLs lawyers agreed to go quietly/cheaply, if the suspension was lifted. It suggests they asked for it to be lifted.

It doesn't suggest Hibs were in the wrong to suspend. In fact, it suggests Hibs were in a strong position.

There's every chance that Hibs agreed to lift the suspension so they could get on with recruiting a replacement for NL, without all the distraction of disciplinary proceedings, and the damaging press coverage that would go with it.

Hibs also held NL in high regard. He may have overstepped the mark, but that doesn't mean we had to throw him under a bus.

This is a decent end to an unfortunate period.

I wonder if it could also mean,,,,,"We've all been hasty, too quick to say some-things and could've handled this better. How about we all step back, take a deep breath and start talking again"?

Danderhall Hibs
30-01-2019, 05:47 PM
The most significant words in that statement seem to have been overlooked.

It says,"The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

That suggests that NLs lawyers agreed to go quietly/cheaply, if the suspension was lifted. It suggests they asked for it to be lifted.

It doesn't suggest Hibs were in the wrong to suspend. In fact, it suggests Hibs were in a strong position.

There's every chance that Hibs agreed to lift the suspension so they could get on with recruiting a replacement for NL, without all the distraction of disciplinary proceedings, and the damaging press coverage that would go with it.

Hibs also held NL in high regard. He may have overstepped the mark, but that doesn't mean we had to throw him under a bus.

This is a decent end to an unfortunate period.

Now I’ve calmed down and re-read it I think you’re right.

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 05:48 PM
I wonder if it could also mean,,,,,"We've all been hasty, too quick to say some-things and could've handled this better. How about we all step back, take a deep breath and start talking again"?

The suspension was lifted as part of the mutual consent agreement.

Liberal Hibby
30-01-2019, 05:48 PM
The most significant words in that statement seem to have been overlooked.

It says,"The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

That suggests that NLs lawyers agreed to go quietly/cheaply, if the suspension was lifted. It suggests they asked for it to be lifted.

It doesn't suggest Hibs were in the wrong to suspend. In fact, it suggests Hibs were in a strong position.

There's every chance that Hibs agreed to lift the suspension so they could get on with recruiting a replacement for NL, without all the distraction of disciplinary proceedings, and the damaging press coverage that would go with it.

Hibs also held NL in high regard. He may have overstepped the mark, but that doesn't mean we had to throw him under a bus.

This is a decent end to an unfortunate period.

Yup and it also allowed the club to go looking for a replacement which they couldn't if he remained in post but suspended (constructive dismissal).

Sammy7nil
30-01-2019, 05:50 PM
"They have not been dismissed and have not resigned"

This made me LOL. How do you break an employment contract without either taking place? Deary me. Anyway, we move on.

:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

matty_f
30-01-2019, 05:50 PM
I agree with all of your posts on this. Question though - have you ever let anyone write their own leaving statement saying how good they are just before you kick them out of the door? :greengrin

Not yet, though I have had one let their team know they were leaving and give their own reason for it. True story.

Allant1981
30-01-2019, 05:51 PM
I don't think you understand obligations to shareholders...

So what obligations do they have to shareholders then?

Danderhall Hibs
30-01-2019, 05:52 PM
So what obligations do they have to shareholders then?

The dividend. Inspection of the accounts. A vote at the AGM.

Any more?

JohnMcM
30-01-2019, 05:54 PM
The suspension was lifted as part of the mutual consent agreement.

Agreed, and I understand that. What I was trying to say (clumsily and in hope), was, maybe this is not the end but there may be a glimmer of hope of a reconciliation. Probably not, but better NL for the rest of the season than a new manager/ head coach perhaps.

I only wish what's best for our club and not individuals.

:flag:

pollution
30-01-2019, 05:55 PM
I think this is always going to be the path of least resistance for most employers with an expensive, high-profile employee to sack. It's almost always going to be easier to pay them off than to go through a protracted tribunal where, even if you win, it'll still cost you more than just making a settlement.

The ease of sacking someone outright is pretty much inversely proportional to their access to expensive lawyers.


Precisely this. One of the directors is a top lawyer specialising in employment law and I imagine has advised this to the board.

bigwheel
30-01-2019, 05:56 PM
So what obligations do they have to shareholders then?

it depends of the types of shares you own but in a limited company, with a majority shareholder (as Hibs are) the rights of other shareholders are very limited...other than voting and voice at an AGM, we have almost no influence over management, and no rights to know the details of day to day executive decisions taken by the board.

tamig
30-01-2019, 05:57 PM
What have they said exactly?

Have they told us anything (other than MC)? Whether the contracts were paid in full or even 70% for instance it is a very expensive process and fans should be entitled to be told WHY?

The statement states they did nothing wrong, were not dismissed, did not resign etc etc is that not hiding behind legal process? If not, then tell us why they are not managing HFC anymore and why the club are paying them to leave (they certainly will not be leaving with no pay)?

Why does that sound so unreasonable to you?
Nonsense. What other clubs disclose the severance terms when a manager leaves/gets sacked?

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 06:02 PM
Agreed, and I understand that. What I was trying to say (clumsily and in hope), was, maybe this is not the end but there may be a glimmer of hope of a reconciliation. Probably not, but better NL for the rest of the season than a new manager/ head coach perhaps.

I only wish what's best for our club and not individuals.

:flag:

I only want the best for Hibs too, but there's more chance of me hitting 180 at darts tonight than seeing NL back in charge.

And I haven't played darts for years and I have no intention of doing so anytime soon!

Brizo
30-01-2019, 06:04 PM
People shouldn't take the phrase "mutual consent" too literally.

Standard wording for a Compromise Agreement arrangement where as the title suggests neither party will want to admit liability or risk a lengthy and costly legal dispute which could also bring details of that dispute into the public domain. Instead they agree a final payment to Lennon with the caveat that he abides by the confidentiality clauses in the document. Id suggest that's the legal outcome here.

Some in general business have been even known to include stipulations that the former employee wont work for competitors for x amount of time. Its also sometimes the case with high profile employees Agreements that the departing managers / CEOs farewell email to the troops is scripted by the lawyers and its a condition of the Agreement that it has to be delivered verbatim to qualify for their pay off.

Hibee Mac
30-01-2019, 06:08 PM
The most significant words in that statement seem to have been overlooked.

It says, "The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

That suggests that NLs lawyers agreed to go quietly/cheaply, if the suspension was lifted. It suggests they asked for it to be lifted.

It doesn't suggest Hibs were in the wrong to suspend. In fact, it suggests Hibs were in a strong position.

There's every chance that Hibs agreed to lift the suspension so they could get on with recruiting a replacement for NL, without all the distraction of disciplinary proceedings, and the damaging press coverage that would go with it.

Hibs also held NL in high regard. He may have overstepped the mark, but that doesn't mean we had to throw him under a bus.

This is a decent end to an unfortunate period.

Sounds bang on to me

Borderhibbie76
30-01-2019, 06:28 PM
The most significant words in that statement seem to have been overlooked.

It says, "The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

That suggests that NLs lawyers agreed to go quietly/cheaply, if the suspension was lifted. It suggests they asked for it to be lifted.

It doesn't suggest Hibs were in the wrong to suspend. In fact, it suggests Hibs were in a strong position.

There's every chance that Hibs agreed to lift the suspension so they could get on with recruiting a replacement for NL, without all the distraction of disciplinary proceedings, and the damaging press coverage that would go with it.

Hibs also held NL in high regard. He may have overstepped the mark, but that doesn't mean we had to throw him under a bus.

This is a decent end to an unfortunate period.Yep bang on with this 100%

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Peevemor
30-01-2019, 06:39 PM
As expected.

We are all still in the dark then. So what happened? Why have we lost a very good manager and his no 2 whilst paying up their contracts in full and now having to find another manager with the transfer window closing?

Whole thing makes no sense and surely HFC should give their paying customers a clear explanation of just what has gone on. All this hiding behind “legal process” etc is very convenient for the club but leaves the fans, once again, in the dark but hey ho who cares eh.

If you're really a realist you'd realise that statement is all about saving time, money and face (NL & GP).

It's the way of the world.

Keith_M
30-01-2019, 06:44 PM
The way I've read that it sounds like hibs made an arse of suspending them


The way I read it is that everybody calmed down, realised it was time for a parting of the ways and an amicable agreement was reached.


Sounds OK to me.

malcolm
30-01-2019, 06:45 PM
Daily ****** View :

"The Edinburgh club have now confirmed Lennon's tenure as boss is over – and insisted he did nothing wrong in an incredible climbdown."

:rolleyes:

Mind you you’d have to be more than a bit dim to think Hibs ‘climbed down’ let alone in incredulous fashion .. or more likely you are a weegie weenie walloper with a west coast audience in mind:greengrin

WhileTheChief..
30-01-2019, 06:47 PM
Discussing it on Sportsound now.

Unsurprisingly they are also asking why LD and George Craig decided to suspend him instead of just sleeping on it until the next day.

If this was Celtic or Hearts this whole board would be laughing at Lawell or Budge.

sean04
30-01-2019, 06:51 PM
Lennon took a lesser pay off so hibs would sign the confidentiality agreement. Lennon defo in the wrong with whatever has happened and couldn't let it come out. Hibs and Lennon go there separate ways with reputations in tact

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 06:52 PM
Discussing it on Sportsound now.

Unsurprisingly they are also asking why LD and George Craig decided to suspend him instead of just sleeping on it until the next day.

If this was Celtic or Hearts this whole board would be laughing at Lawell or Budge.

The suspension was only lifted when the mutual separation agreement was agreed.

It says it clearly in the statement. Then we get the agreed wording i.e. the agreement.

Peevemor
30-01-2019, 06:54 PM
What have they said exactly?

Have they told us anything (other than MC)? Whether the contracts were paid in full or even 70% for instance it is a very expensive process and fans should be entitled to be told WHY?

The statement states they did nothing wrong, were not dismissed, did not resign etc etc is that not hiding behind legal process? If not, then tell us why they are not managing HFC anymore and why the club are paying them to leave (they certainly will not be leaving with no pay)?

Why does that sound so unreasonable to you?Yes.

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 06:55 PM
Lennon took a lesser pay off so hibs would sign the confidentiality agreement. Lennon defo in the wrong with whatever has happened and couldn't let it come out. Hibs and Lennon go there separate ways with reputations in tact

I'm not convinced he received any pay off.

If the rumours are even half true, Lennon's reputation would be hit hard and that's his rep as a person, not just a football manager.

But, as the "agreement" says, he did nothing wrong ...

WhileTheChief..
30-01-2019, 06:55 PM
The suspension was only lifted when the mutual separation agreement was agreed.

It says it clearly in the statement. Then we get the agreed wording i.e. the agreement.

It’s easier following Brexit!

Keith_M
30-01-2019, 06:57 PM
Discussing it on Sportsound now.

Unsurprisingly they are also asking why LD and George Craig decided to suspend him instead of just sleeping on it until the next day.

If this was Celtic or Hearts this whole board would be laughing at Lawell or Budge.


Only if you really believe that Lennon had done nothing wrong, and can't imagine that it was actually just a pragmatic compromise so they could make a financial settlement.

B.H.F.C
30-01-2019, 06:58 PM
Discussing it on Sportsound now.

Unsurprisingly they are also asking why LD and George Craig decided to suspend him instead of just sleeping on it until the next day.

If this was Celtic or Hearts this whole board would be laughing at Lawell or Budge.

Why would we have delayed doing anything when we had a game on the Sunday to prepare for?

We’d all like to know a bit more but they seem to have come to an agreement that suits both parties. What’s to laugh at?

ddoc
30-01-2019, 06:59 PM
Totally, I've been involved in situations where someone has been suspended and ultimately an agreement to part ways has come about prior to any disciplinary hearings because it was a better outcome all round.

In those cases, it let the person leave on their terms without the stigma of a dismissal on their CV.

Management 101. If you can come to a mutually agreed solution it is generally better for all concerned. Luckily for most of us, when we deal with this sort of issue, it is not out there in the public domain for every man and his dog to comment on. For what it is worth I think they have dealt with a bad situation as best they could, and with the best interest of Hibs at the heart of their decisions. Many will disagree, but I am also sure the legal people will have clearly told them not to air the dirty laundry in public and move on.

FitbaFolkKen
30-01-2019, 07:14 PM
Discussing it on Sportsound now.

Unsurprisingly they are also asking why LD and George Craig decided to suspend him instead of just sleeping on it until the next day.

If this was Celtic or Hearts this whole board would be laughing at Lawell or Budge.

You suspend immediately if there has been an incident that may warrant disciplinary action. If you sleep on it then you are showing acceptance of the action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

J-C
30-01-2019, 07:21 PM
Players not happy, bust up with your boss, standard parting of the ways, no point in slagging anyone off and everyone goes away reputation intact.

Danderhall Hibs
30-01-2019, 07:25 PM
You suspend immediately if there has been an incident that may warrant disciplinary action. If you sleep on it then you are showing acceptance of the action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have the BBC had anyone on with a little bit of knowledge of employment law or are they just relying on ex footballers?

jacomo
30-01-2019, 07:27 PM
You suspend immediately if there has been an incident that may warrant disciplinary action. If you sleep on it then you are showing acceptance of the action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:agree:

That is how it’s done.

truehibernian
30-01-2019, 07:27 PM
The thing that bothers me about pundits and journalists is that they are not giving Neil Lennon's reign as Hibs manager a more rounded analysis and they are focusing on Hibs 'failings' in this incident.

Neil has been good for Hibs and bad. He is a huge figure in Scottish football and has had an excellent career up here (and down south) as a player and manager. But he has never been far away from controversy, some completely unwarranted (threats against him, etc.) but let's not shy away from the fact that whist he has had football success with us, he has ultimately at times appeared to present as bigger than the club. His 'GIRFUY' at Ibrox, his fighting on the touchline v Morton and the Jim Duffy fall out, the abuse he gave to Clancy at Killie, the erratic 'will he do press or will he go awol', his behaviour coming off the pitch at Tynecastle, his reaction last game at Tynecastle (the subsequent coin incident was disgraceful), calling players amateurs when we are sitting high in the league, calling out a certain player more than once and persisting with it (including Parker)..........those are not actions of a manager who can contain his emotions, and these are not a manager who is dignified..........he wears his heart on his sleeve, a very complex and emotional man, a winner.........but sometimes that 'win at all costs' has a damaging and ultimately eroding effect on the club, squad, and fans.

The journalists are circling because they don't know what went on - they may know some of it, but it'll irk them that they don't have the full facts to conjur up a story and portray one or both in a bad light. Because of his reputation and his stature in the game up here it's natural they will start to side with him, after all, he may be back in the game soon and he is good copy and they won't want to burn bridges and they'll be anxious to keep him 'onside'.

It's obvious why they would single out Leeann and in particular Rod - they don't give anything away and are very very guarded. That is what the journalists hate - Hibs (and Lennon) have tried to walk away from this with damage limitation in mind but without dragging it out in public.

We wish Neil and Garry the best, we move on, Hibs will always be here and the club is bigger than any manager - end of story.

Pat Bonner was excellent at the weekend with his appraisal of the situation and gave an insight into the laws and regulations that clubs and management must follow in the modern game. Willie Miller and Michael Stewart were both ignorant and ill-informed and came across as 1980's footballers who thought it's okay to swear, tirade and rant without any sanction or explanation.

For me I think the end result came from a series of incidents which cumulatively have forced the club to take this course of action. Something Tom English and company need to consider when judging the whole tenure. Results, and style of football, was also suffering because of it. It's a results and entertainment business - on the pitch - the sideshow off it should not be should never be the main event and with Neil's behaviour it was becoming so.

I wish them all the very best and hope we get a positive reaction when the new manager comes in. I also hope the club take stock and take an introspective look to see how we get back to where we were only a season ago - in every department. Could be exactly what was needed for all areas of the club and they can focus more on the club as a whole and not an individual.

Frank Moon
30-01-2019, 07:49 PM
I'm not convinced he received any pay off.

If the rumours are even half true, Lennon's reputation would be hit hard and that's his rep as a person, not just a football manager.

But, as the "agreement" says, he did nothing wrong ...

Conversely it could be we are paying by him plenty because he had no wrong doings ? I’ve dealt with and know of plenty similar suspensions pending investigations in my work when they mutually consent but the announcement would never be so glowing about their time in the company as that statement. That’s what makes me question this whole thing.

Hibees1973
30-01-2019, 07:53 PM
What a sorry episode this has been for the club.

All the problems stem from us losing our midfield from last season. It was always going to be a season of transition and likely to take 3 or 4 transfer windows to get a stable squad and one Lennon could have been satisfied with to compete again for the top 4 positions.

We all don’t know what has been going on but my feeling is that transfer policy has been the main issue. We cannot compete with the old firm and even Aberdeen as they have people pumping
a lot of money in. Even Hearts have found some benefactor to fund a whole new squad.

Lennon probably found it hard to stomach not getting the calibre of player he wanted and this has caused tension at the club. There have been plenty of signs things have not been right.

Patience is not a word used in football but I hoped everyone at Hibs, including Lennon and our supporters would have shown more of this this season. With a bit more time there was no reason to doubt we could have been competing at the top of the table next season. The nucleus of a top 4 team is already there.

Instead we have implosion and lost a fantastic manager who had Hibs playing the best football I have seen at ER for 40 years.

I’’m gutted but enjoyed the football Lennon oversaw.

This is Hibs though and we do ups and downs better than any other club.

Hope Dempster can again give us a manager we can get behind and build an attractive, attacking Hibs team we can be proud of.

proud_and_green
30-01-2019, 07:53 PM
The most significant words in that statement seem to have been overlooked.

It says, "The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

That suggests that NLs lawyers agreed to go quietly/cheaply, if the suspension was lifted. It suggests they asked for it to be lifted.

It doesn't suggest Hibs were in the wrong to suspend. In fact, it suggests Hibs were in a strong position.

There's every chance that Hibs agreed to lift the suspension so they could get on with recruiting a replacement for NL, without all the distraction of disciplinary proceedings, and the damaging press coverage that would go with it.

Hibs also held NL in high regard. He may have overstepped the mark, but that doesn't mean we had to throw him under a bus.

This is a decent end to an unfortunate period.

I agree with this, I think that Lenny has said "ok, but when I go, even if you have a case against me, I can force a big pay off but in return for a reduced/nil pay off and my silence I expect your silence and a statement that acts like a reference for us". Hence the great service, list of their achievements and they were great servants of the club.

Time to move on and build the next chapter.

Keith_M
30-01-2019, 07:54 PM
Conversely it could be we are paying by him plenty because he had no wrong doings ? I’ve dealt with and know of plenty similar suspensions pending investigations in my work when they mutually consent but the announcement would never be so glowing about their time in the company as that statement. That’s what makes me question this whole thing.


How many of those would have needed a pay-off in the 100s of thousands?

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 08:23 PM
Conversely it could be we are paying by him plenty because he had no wrong doings ? I’ve dealt with and know of plenty similar suspensions pending investigations in my work when they mutually consent but the announcement would never be so glowing about their time in the company as that statement. That’s what makes me question this whole thing.

Except for the fact that the suspension was lifted because Lennon had accepted the agreement.

Billy Whizz
30-01-2019, 08:26 PM
Except for the fact that the suspension was lifted because Lennon had accepted the agreement.

Hibs never said anything at any stage, before today, that Lennon was suspended, unless I’ve missed something

Greenworld
30-01-2019, 08:27 PM
As expected.

We are all still in the dark then. So what happened? Why have we lost a very good manager and his no 2 whilst paying up their contracts in full and now having to find another manager with the transfer window closing?

Whole thing makes no sense and surely HFC should give their paying customers a clear explanation of just what has gone on. All this hiding behind “legal process” etc is very convenient for the club but leaves the fans, once again, in the dark but hey ho who cares eh.U don't know what was paid so that's just a guess

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Hibbyradge
30-01-2019, 08:31 PM
Hibs never said anything at any stage, before today, that Lennon was suspended, unless I’ve missed something

No, they said nothing.

However, today's statement says; "The suspension, put in place to allow an internal review, was lifted by the club as part of this agreement."

I think that tells us everything we need to know because that wording will have been agreed by Lennon's lawyers.

judas
30-01-2019, 08:32 PM
Lennon took a lesser pay off so hibs would sign the confidentiality agreement. Lennon defo in the wrong with whatever has happened and couldn't let it come out. Hibs and Lennon go there separate ways with reputations in tact

100%

flash
30-01-2019, 08:33 PM
What a sorry episode this has been for the club.

All the problems stem from us losing our midfield from last season. It was always going to be a season of transition and likely to take 3 or 4 transfer windows to get a stable squad and one Lennon could have been satisfied with to compete again for the top 4 positions.

We all don’t know what has been going on but my feeling is that transfer policy has been the main issue. We cannot compete with the old firm and even Aberdeen as they have people pumping
a lot of money in. Even Hearts have found some benefactor to fund a whole new squad.

Lennon probably found it hard to stomach not getting the calibre of player he wanted and this has caused tension at the club. There have been plenty of signs things have not been right.

Patience is not a word used in football but I hoped everyone at Hibs, including Lennon and our supporters would have shown more of this this season. With a bit more time there was no reason to doubt we could have been competing at the top of the table next season. The nucleus of a top 4 team is already there.

Instead we have implosion and lost a fantastic manager who had Hibs playing the best football I have seen at ER for 40 years.

I’’m gutted but enjoyed the football Lennon oversaw.

This is Hibs though and we do ups and downs better than any other club.

Hope Dempster can again give us a manager we can get behind and build an attractive, attacking Hibs team we can be proud of.
No offence but "best football in 40 years". Seriously?

wookie70
30-01-2019, 08:34 PM
Seems fairly clear all parties wanted a clean break with no mud slinging. I hope the club have not paid a full settlement and that is the cost of the statement that allows Lennon to leave blemish free. Either way it has been done quietly and professionally and I hope that is the way it remains. We now get the chance to turn our season round but desperately need to get some help for Flo in. Still a chance of top 6 or better now the dark cloud has lifted and players might just start to perform at a better level and maybe those muscle injuries might heal up a bit quicker if training is a happier place to be.

FitbaFolkKen
30-01-2019, 08:36 PM
Have the BBC had anyone on with a little bit of knowledge of employment law or are they just relying on ex footballers?

I’ve honestly not listened as it’s pretty much all wind and pish. Frustrating to listen to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hibsbollah
30-01-2019, 08:37 PM
No offence but "best football in 40 years". Seriously?

Mowbrays first season would be my shout but Lennons side is certainly in the discussion. Since 1973-4 there's not many else I can think of that are better.

Doh Rae Me
30-01-2019, 08:44 PM
No offence but "best football in 40 years". Seriously?

Exactly my opinion also, I very much hope the next manager has us in top 4 every season and going on European runs, however, this season is written off, next season it'll be getting his own team in, the season after that he'll be sacked or away by mutual consent.
Repeat.

macca70
30-01-2019, 08:55 PM
Sacking/Disciplinary never really reflects well for employee or employer and disciplinary/investigations are just a pain for all concerned regardless of whose in right/wrong.

Agree to terminate employment, maybe a small pay off, decent reference provided for potential new employers and all the dirty washing doesn’t have to be aired in public.

HibeeHibernian4
30-01-2019, 09:00 PM
Instead we have implosion and lost a fantastic manager who had Hibs playing the best football I have seen at ER for 40 years.

Did you only make it to the final four months of last season, then? Because the rest of it was somewhere between decent and turgid.

Tornadoes70
30-01-2019, 09:07 PM
Exactly my opinion also, I very much hope the next manager has us in top 4 every season and going on European runs, however, this season is written off, next season it'll be getting his own team in, the season after that he'll be sacked or away by mutual consent.
Repeat.

Neither do we want a 'bombproof' levein situation either where after every defeat half the yams are calling for him to go yet are resigned to him being in post until he and no other decides when its time to go.

Lets look forward to a new broom coming in with very probably new signings coming in and hopefully getting the best out of the squad.

Onwards and Upwards.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

FilipinoHibs
30-01-2019, 09:13 PM
If the club just said they done nothing wrong then why were they suspended? They've basically just admitted they were wrong to suspend them.

Part of the severance deal to reduce the cost of paying them off. If they had done nothing wrong why are they leaving? These mutual consent statements are always bland and non incriminating. When my company sacks someone senior the email reads " X has left the firm to pursue new opportunities ".

Hibees1973
30-01-2019, 09:43 PM
No offence but "best football in 40 years". Seriously?

From a Hibs team.

MWHIBBIES
30-01-2019, 09:50 PM
Mowbray and Collins had peaks that far exceeded any football Lennon played in a much harder league.

Is It On....
30-01-2019, 10:11 PM
No they said it has been lifted as part of the agreement (settlement).

Indeed - and it's actually called a Settle Agreement. Includes both the monetary terms of the "deal" and a standard, pre-agreed reference for future employers.

where'stheslope
30-01-2019, 10:18 PM
Totally transparent! Nothing to see here! Lets just move on!!!
We can read all about it when Lennon brings out his book!!!

IWasThere2016
30-01-2019, 10:30 PM
I understand both paid out, and signed compromise agreements forbidding them to speak publicly on the matter.

Hibs would pay. They would have to - to avoid legal action and moreover to avoid Lenny/Parker running to The Stun or ****** for a six figure+ payment for their story..

greenlex
31-01-2019, 09:01 AM
I understand both paid out, and signed compromise agreements forbidding them to speak publicly on the matter.

Hibs would pay. They would have to - to avoid legal action and moreover to avoid Lenny/Parker running to The Stun or ****** for a six figure+ payment for their story..

Don’t believe it. The record is championing Lennon anyway. Why pay him his contract up instead of just sacking him? Might be somewhere in the middle but if Hibs were in the right and Lennon in the wrong I doubt any money has changed hands. Lennon had to come out if this with some sort of integrity to be able to work in football in any capacity again.

flash
31-01-2019, 09:02 AM
Mowbrays first season would be my shout but Lennons side is certainly in the discussion. Since 1973-4 there's not many else I can think of that are better.

Not Sauzee and Latapy then?

flash
31-01-2019, 09:04 AM
From a Hibs team.

Better than the season we finished 3rd with McLeish?

easty
31-01-2019, 09:04 AM
I understand both paid out, and signed compromise agreements forbidding them to speak publicly on the matter.

Hibs would pay. They would have to - to avoid legal action and moreover to avoid Lenny/Parker running to The Stun or ****** for a six figure+ payment for their story..

Where are you getting that from? That they’ve both been paid out?

I’d be hugely surprised.

Barney McGrew
31-01-2019, 09:04 AM
Mowbray and Collins had peaks that far exceeded any football Lennon played in a much harder league.

:agree:

We we were probably more consistent under Lennon, but we didn’t hammer too many teams like we could do under the other two.

And that’s before you look at what McLeish’s team were capable of.

IWasThere2016
31-01-2019, 09:12 AM
Don’t believe it. The record is championing Lennon anyway. Why pay him his contract up instead of just sacking him? Might be somewhere in the middle but if Hibs were in the right and Lennon in the wrong I doubt any money has changed hands. Lennon had to come out if this with some sort of integrity to be able to work in football in any capacity again.


Where are you getting that from? That they’ve both been paid out?

I’d be hugely surprised.

Agent. Well connected. Had many SPL players and a few managers. Paid to 31 December 2019 I believe.

Jim44
31-01-2019, 09:20 AM
Agent. Well connected. Had many SPL players and a few managers. Paid to 31 December 2019 I believe.

Petrie and Dempster must have held a private conference for agents and hostile media hacks to fill them in on the true turn of events. :rolleyes:

I'm Spartacus
31-01-2019, 09:52 AM
I now picture a discussion along the lines of:

"You're sacked"
"Am I ****, I'm leaving"
"No Neil, you're sacked"
"**** you, I'm leaving"
[both at the same time] "DEAL"

Fergos
31-01-2019, 09:55 AM
I now picture a discussion along the lines of:

"You're sacked"
"Am I ****, I'm leaving"
"No Neil, you're sacked"
"**** you, I'm leaving"
[both at the same time] "DEAL"

Maybe but what rings true here is that Id bet both parties arent exactly disappointed at the outcome.

GGTTH

Brightside
31-01-2019, 09:57 AM
Tom English claiming we have paid them out fully is very poor from him. I hope he is told to bolt next time he fancies coming to a game.

Jim44
31-01-2019, 10:28 AM
Tom English claiming we have paid them out fully is very poor from him. I hope he is told to bolt next time he fancies coming to a game.

He’s just taken delivery of his Daily ****** and is jumping on the bandwagon.