Michael Stewart - "This has been coming"

[Hibbyradge]

I saw a tweet from MS this morning which said that Hibs are pleased to have removed Lennon from his post because tensions have been rising for some time.

I can't find the tweet again, so I'm not sure of the exact wording, but if that's the case, maybe we have a successor in mind and any delay will be minimal.

I know we're still trying to recruit players before Thursday, so if we do know who is coming in, we might be in a better position to do so after all.

I have my doubts, but we live in hope.

[JimBHibees]

I saw a tweet from MS this morning which said that Hibs are pleased to have removed Lennon from his post because tensions have been rising for some time.

I can't find the tweet again, so I'm not sure of the exact wording, but if that's the case, maybe we have a successor in mind and any delay will be minimal.

I know we're still trying to recruit players before Thursday, so if we do know who is coming in, we might be in a better position to do so after all.

I have my doubts, but we live in hope.

There are players who have played before and recently linked with us who would assume wouldnt have an issue with Lennon leaving (Efe, Jason, Allan, Barker) in saying that Efe out of that list probably would have an issue if we got the other 3 or 2 and someone else squad would still be reasonable.

[Callum_62]

I saw a tweet from MS this morning which said that Hibs are pleased to have removed Lennon from his post because tensions have been rising for some time.

I can't find the tweet again, so I'm not sure of the exact wording, but if that's the case, maybe we have a successor in mind and any delay will be minimal.

I know we're still trying to recruit players before Thursday, so if we do know who is coming in, we might be in a better position to do so after all.

I have my doubts, but we live in hope.

I also have my doubts - its not really the Hibs way unfortunately


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[JimboHibs]

There are players who have played before and recently linked with us who would assume wouldnt have an issue with Lennon leaving (Efe, Jason, Allan, Barker) in saying that Efe out of that list probably would have an issue if we got the other 3 or 2 and someone else squad would still be reasonable.

What issue would Efe have if we got the other 3 ?

[Sir David Gray]

There are players who have played before and recently linked with us who would assume wouldnt have an issue with Lennon leaving (Efe, Jason, Allan, Barker) in saying that Efe out of that list probably would have an issue if we got the other 3 or 2 and someone else squad would still be reasonable.

I'd be surprised if Ambrose had a problem with Lennon. He played for him for 2 years at Celtic so knew what he was all about but still chose to sign for him again for us.

He was also singled out for praise by Lennon a few weeks ago as being one of only 2 players who had never been injured this season and the inference was that this was down to how well Ambrose had looked after his body.

[J-C]

I had heard Efe had fallen out recently with Lennon, maybe why he triggered his clause.

[JimboHibs]

I had heard Efe had fallen out recently with Lennon, maybe why he triggered his clause.

I heard he had no problems with Lennon,maybe he triggered his release for nothing other than football/financial decisions.

[J-C]

I heard he had no problems with Lennon.

Hence why we never believe everything we hear, I thought it was nonsense when I was told, just trying to piece all this together.

[JimboHibs]

Hence why we never believe everything we hear, I thought it was nonsense when I was told, just trying to piece all this together.

Sometimes theres nothing to piece together 👍

[Pretty Boy]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

[sambajustice]

I heard Lennon was responsible for BREXIT

[overdrive]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Football chnaged. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Pat Bonner was making a similar point on the radio yesterday. Most of the rest of the pundits were having none of it though. They all seemed to have an attitude of good HR procedure and employment law don’t apply in sport. Bonner was making the point that it definitely does and that the modern player wouldn’t put up with the classic bullying approach for long.

He was the only one that seemed to understand that a “sacking” in the football world isn’t a sacking in the normal work world. The rest (other than maybe Stewart) were screaming for Hibs to sack him on the spot, not realising that football “sackings” are more akin to a pay-off.

[StevesFamau5]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Football chnaged. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Absolutely 100% agree. This is the first post that sums up the current situation with the club.

The singling out of players for poor performances (most notably Kamberi) is not good man management. Regardless of how the team perform the role of the manager/head coach is to inspire, encourage and support the team throughout it all. If someone is having a bad time then yelling at them or berating them publicly isn't going to work. I call bollocks on anyone who says they find confidence in being slagged off by their manager.

I am thankful for what he did to get Hibs back to the forefront but no man is bigger than the club. He is finished and we move forward.

We are Hibernian FC and we will continue to march on.

[scooby]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Football chnaged. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

I agree entirely with that. As fans we should be encouraging and supporting the players, and the manager should be too.
I've been very uncomfortable with Lennon singling out Kamberi and questioning his effort.

Most of us could see this situation coming, it's been clear for some time that things behind the scenes have not been right.

Neil Lennon is fighting his own demons, but has allowed that to affect his judgement at work, and the result is the situation before us.

We need our own 'Ole", someone who gets Hibs and can galvanize and motivate the players.

Over to you Leanne!

[matty_f]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

I agree.

I don't think the players had a problem with being criticised in public when they agreed that they were to blame.

The issue comes when they think it's unfair, and that's amplified if they feel that the person blaming them is responsible.

My take on things is that that point was reached some time back. I think the players feel that they can't win with Lennon (figuratively and literally) so no matter what they do, they're going to be slaughtered by him for it.

At this point, any positive impact that could be gained from harsh criticism (either public or private) is diminished, and the negative impact increased.

I think Lennon lost credibility and respect in the dressing room, nobody likes to see one person singled out repeatedly and so there was always going to come a point where the players would push back.

The all stick and no carrot never works.

I think Lennon is a good manager in general, and I was an advocate of letting him ride or this bad spell, but going by reports a parting of ways of absolutely the right thing to happen now.

[bigwheel]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Can't disagree with any of that....the public berating of players rarely has any positive affect. More likely an excuse from the manager.

I guess the added dimension though is that a number of our players this season have been poor. Kamberi is one of them. Often what Lennon said was true, but it should have been to Kamberi not the media..that said there is a long list of underperforming players...so hopefully We can get a coach in the brings out the best of them..the headache for the board is not only who to bring in, but also the fact they will now have a major transition to fund over the summer...


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[oldbiker]

I heard Lennon was responsible for BREXIT

Yeh and he has been in touch with Trump about building a wall in Ireland together

[WestStandMoaner]

Pat Bonner was making a similar point on the radio yesterday. Most of the rest of the pundits were having none of it though. They all seemed to have an attitude of good HR procedure and employment law don’t apply in sport. Bonner was making the point that it definitely does and that the modern player wouldn’t put up with the classic bullying approach for long.

He was the only one that seemed to understand that a “sacking” in the football world isn’t a sacking in the normal work world. The rest (other than maybe Stewart) were screaming for Hibs to sack him on the spot, not realising that football “sackings” are more akin to a pay-off.

i think football needs to clean up their act as far as employment law is concerned, i listened to Pat Bonner and he was right but there are so many inconsistencies in football around this subject. Many managers are sacked sometimes on the spot, you cannot do that in the real world.
The one thing that I don't get is how a club can fine a player, there is no job I am aware of allows an employer to fine a member of staff for being late for example. I can only assume it's in their contract but i am sure this will be challenged at some point in the near future.

[Danderhall Hibs]

i think football needs to clean up their act as far as employment law is concerned, i listened to Pat Bonner and he was right but there are so many inconsistencies in football around this subject. Many managers are sacked sometimes on the spot, you cannot do that in the real world.
The one thing that I don't get is how a club can fine a player, there is no job I am aware of allows an employer to fine a member of staff for being late for example. I can only assume it's in their contract but i am sure this will be challenged at some point in the near future.

:agree: I’ve never put anyone on a warning or a performance improvement plan and fined them a weeks wages.

[rotherhamrob]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Good Post.
If kamberi was so bad then why keep playing him? And why keep singling him out?
Mallan, with the odd exception, has been missing for months.
Boyle has barely done anything since being mentioned for the aussies.
Mcgregor, hanlon and whittaker have all had bad spells yet they aren't berated in the same way.
For me, this has been coming for months.
Anyway, here's hoping for a comfortable win today to lift some of the gloom around the club.

[WestStandMoaner]

:agree: I’ve never put anyone on a warning or a performance improvement plan and fined them a weeks wages.

i agree neither have I but it seems to be acceptable in football and I just wonder why that is

[Jones28]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Another astute observation PB 👍🏻

[JimBHibees]

I'd be surprised if Ambrose had a problem with Lennon. He played for him for 2 years at Celtic so knew what he was all about but still chose to sign for him again for us.

He was also singled out for praise by Lennon a few weeks ago as being one of only 2 players who had never been injured this season and the inference was that this was down to how well Ambrose had looked after his body.

Apologies my initial message wasn't clear Efe due to his close relationship with Neil may be more likely not to come back if Lennon not there.

[Diclonius]

The only reason Efe signed for us was Lennon. I doubt he'll be back now.

[SChibs]

Can't disagree with any of that....the public berating of players rarely has any positive affect. More likely an excuse from the manager.

I guess the added dimension though is that a number of our players this season have been poor. Kamberi is one of them. Often what Lennon said was true, but it should have been to Kamberi not the media..that said there is a long list of underperforming players...so hopefully We can get a coach in the brings out the best of them..the headache for the board is not only who to bring in, but also the fact they will now have a major transition to fund over the summer...


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In reply to the underperforming players bit...

We have some good players and some average players at the club just now but I think our squad is worthy of a top 6 place based on ability. I think a lot of our problems this season have came down to tactics as we don't have the ideas to break down teams that play a bit more defensively. There's only so much the players can do if they are being told to play a certain way and it isn't working.

It's difficult to implement an effective high press for an entire came yet we achieved that vs Celtic before Christmas which to me shows the players are capable if played correctly.

I liked Lennon but I feel this season he has been outsmarted by other managers and has ran out of ideas a bit. I think he's tried to play players in positions where they are uncomfortable to suit his tactics rather than changing the tactics to suit the players he has at his disposal.

[highland hibbee]

i think football needs to clean up their act as far as employment law is concerned, i listened to Pat Bonner and he was right but there are so many inconsistencies in football around this subject. Many managers are sacked sometimes on the spot, you cannot do that in the real world.
The one thing that I don't get is how a club can fine a player, there is no job I am aware of allows an employer to fine a member of staff for being late for example. I can only assume it's in their contract but i am sure this will be challenged at some point in the near future.

football is peculiar in a number of ways regarding employment law, but probably because some of these peculiarities don’t appear to be challenged.
however I’m a contractor to offshore companies and within each assignment schedule I sign, there is usually a clause that makes me liable for costs ( up to £1000) should I fail to make a checkin without reasonable or valid reason. So I suppose that’s similar to the player being fined for being late for training?

[Shrekko]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Can you name some of the posters who don’t like fans booing but also don’t mind managers criticising them in public?

Definitely the same ones aye?

[Borderhibbie76]

I saw a tweet from MS this morning which said that Hibs are pleased to have removed Lennon from his post because tensions have been rising for some time.

I can't find the tweet again, so I'm not sure of the exact wording, but if that's the case, maybe we have a successor in mind and any delay will be minimal.

I know we're still trying to recruit players before Thursday, so if we do know who is coming in, we might be in a better position to do so after all.

I have my doubts, but we live in hope.Serious question but until the outcome of his suspension is made public I presume we are unable to appoint anyone??

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[bigwheel]

Serious question but until the outcome of his suspension is made public I presume we are unable to appoint anyone??

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I’d imagine so. On a perm basis anyway - Or else they could claim constructive dismissal

Probably why we are hearing nothing - seeking to agree the exit

[Borderhibbie76]

I’d imagine so. On a perm basis anyway - Or else they could claim constructive dismissal

Probably why we are hearing nothing - seeking to agree the exitThought so...which is Why I find all the critique of yesterday's statement a bit bizarre as clearly the club need to be very careful about what they say in the media/ public domain

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[Keith_M]

I heard Lennon was responsible for BREXIT

Don't forget the Financial Crash of 2008

[BullsCloseHibs]

This season is already finished :agree:

Let the new boss come in and we start AGAIN in August !!

[Northernhibee]

This season is already finished :agree:

Let the new boss come in and we start AGAIN in August !!

Man Utd would have said that when Jose gone - they had sense to get rid of a toxic manager at a manageable time.

We have some very good players in the squad nd the first few games of the season they showed how good they can be. Don’t write the season off yet, someone to raise spirits and confidence may do the world of good.

[superfurryhibby]

This season is already finished :agree:

Let the new boss come in and we start AGAIN in August !!

Here’s me thinking we are still in the cup and have the chance to finish top six, with all the financial benefits that an extended run and imprived league campaign would bring.

I’m not quite ready to write a large chunk of the season off quite yet. Lets see if the players respond positively first.

[Weegreenman]

I had heard Efe had fallen out recently with Lennon, maybe why he triggered his clause.

I was under The impression that Efe was happy to stay in Scotland because his family were settled here. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t that one of the main reasons we managed to sign him in the first place? So for him to activate a get out clause now, it certainly reeks of something not quite right, especially because there seems to be no immediate suitors currently in the offing which I find very strange. I concede that this is all conjecture on my part and a certain bit reading between the lines but it wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibilities for him to have fallen out with Lennon.

[Callum_62]

I was under The impression that Efe was happy to stay in Scotland because his family were settled here. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t that one of the main reasons we managed to sign him in the first place? So for him to activate a get out clause now, it certainly reeks of something not quite right, especially because there seems to be no immediate suitors currently in the offing which I find very strange. I concede that this is all conjecture on my part and a certain bit reading between the lines but it wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibilities for him to have fallen out with Lennon.

He stayed in Scotland to get his citizenship sorted

Thats now done


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[Johnny Clash]

After the Livi game, I thought Lennon did well summing up the frustrations most of us felt with Kamberi

"I don't know if it's a confidence thing or a lack of application but he's nowhere near as hungry as he was last season.

"This is a criticism but we've been sitting on this for weeks but we're getting no response from him. We maybe need to look at other avenues to get goals. That's up to him. We've been talking to him in private for a long time.

"It's his all-round work rate which isn't there. If you aren't doing that then we are a man down and that's not acceptable any more."

[Since90+2]

i agree neither have I but it seems to be acceptable in football and I just wonder why that is

I believe Sports Direct dock wages if you are late which is effectively fining them. If it's stated in the contract of employment that lateness ,or continued lateness , will result in a docking of wages then the employee won't have a leg to stand on.

[Crab apple]

Veering slightly off topic but I love how Michael Stewart seems to get under Potter’s skin. Potter now demanding an apology after Stewart claimed Potter tried to get him sacked from the BBC. Sounds just like the kind of cowardly, hypocritical behaviour we’ve come to expect from Potter.

[Radium]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

[emoji106] need a like button. ‘Aye been’ and ‘When I were a lad’ doesn’t wash.


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[matty_f]

Can you name some of the posters who don’t like fans booing but also don’t mind managers criticising them in public?

Definitely the same ones aye?

Even if they're not, it's hardly the key point of the post is it?

[ScottB]

Veering slightly off topic but I love how Michael Stewart seems to get under Potter’s skin. Potter now demanding an apology after Stewart claimed Potter tried to get him sacked from the BBC. Sounds just like the kind of cowardly, hypocritical behaviour we’ve come to expect from Potter.

Caretaker till the end of the season? It’d certainly noise up Levein 😀

[southsider]

Veering slightly off topic but I love how Michael Stewart seems to get under Potter’s skin. Potter now demanding an apology after Stewart claimed Potter tried to get him sacked from the BBC. Sounds just like the kind of cowardly, hypocritical behaviour we’ve come to expect from Potter.

MS just been voted best tv pundit ( and I know that ain’t hard). Potter hates him coz he can’t stand being criticised.

[Weegreenman]

He stayed in Scotland to get his citizenship sorted

Thats now done


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So it had nothing at all to do with his family being settled then? That was what was being said at the time. I stand corrected :not worth

[ScottB]

Football employment, I guess it’s a two way street. Players get guaranteed, multi year contracts that seem largely watertight, if a player turns out to not be very good, tough, they still get their money. The flip side seems to be that they can be fined / docked wages if they don’t fulfill the obligations set out in their contract.

All they can be outright sacked on the spot for seems to be gross misconduct; violence, illegal behaviour and what not. They can be ‘sacked’ for other reasons, but that’d involve paying off the contract.

Managers seem to be closer to regular employees, they can be dismissed if they aren’t good enough, but they still seem to have fixed length contracts, so again, it’s a pay off. Or the gross misconduct again.

In general, it seems they’ve traded some employment rights for those guaranteed contracts and pay offs. Kind of like how contractors can have their contracts ended for no reason, no holiday or sick pay, all traded away for more money.

[Callum_62]

MS just been voted best tv pundit ( and I know that ain’t hard). Potter hates him coz he can’t stand being criticised.

Mikey Stewart is definitely one of the best pundits we have


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[The 90+2]

I actually think we have a better chance of getting players in now Lennon is gone. Players talk and if our players have been unhappy then surely it would influence others coming in?

[The 90+2]

So so it had nothing at all to do with his family being settled then? That was what was being said at the time. I stand corrected :not worth

No, it was it was all about being in th country two more years.

[Callum_62]

So so it had nothing at all to do with his family being settled then? That was what was being said at the time. I stand corrected :not worth

I have a vague recollection of a move breaking down for him due to WP issues - possibly to Blackburn??


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[southsider]

Seems to be a major split in fans regarding Neil. Brining in SA now would work wonders fo moral.

[Weegreenman]

I have a vague recollection of a move breaking down for him due to WP issues - possibly to Blackburn??


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I think I also vaguely remember that being mentioned. Sad really but I suppose Efe has got to do what’s best for him. There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of loyalty anymore. I thought he’d have at least seen the season out.

[grunt]

MS just been voted best tv pundit ( and I know that ain’t hard). Potter hates him coz he can’t stand being criticised.

Great tweet from Michael Stewart the other day



Craig urgently needs to learn that power always comes with accountability but I do wish him all the best. I’d love to see Craig taste that elusive success before his career finishes......

[Johnny Clash]

I actually think we have a better chance of getting players in now Lennon is gone. Players talk and if our players have been unhappy then surely it would influence others coming in?

Really? We just sighed Gauld and Allan on a pre contract. Many players have gone out their way to say Lennon at Hibs was a factor in their signing. Players like kamberi’s (on sky sports):

"Kamberi: Lennon key to Hibs Return
I like the success with the gaffer. I like working with him a lot and for me it was clear I wanted to come back.“

[SChibs]

Really? We just sighed Gauld and Allan on a pre contract. Many players have gone out their way to say Lennon at Hibs was a factor in their signing. Players like kamberi’s (on sky sports):

"Kamberi: Lennon key to Hibs Return
I like the success with the gaffer. I like working with him a lot and for me it was clear I wanted to come back.“

It appears that Lennon is a joy to work with when things are going well but a nightmare when things are going badly. The problem is that the issue may be with team selection and tactics which the players can't do much about

[bigwheel]

It appears that Lennon is a joy to work with when things are going well but a nightmare when things are going badly. The problem is that the issue may be with team selection and tactics which the players can't do much about

Yep. To complicate it more..Lennon and his staff have also said some of the players do well when we are winning, and go into their shells when it gets tougher too ... many issues here. However, game day !! Let’s get right into them ! [emoji106][emoji123]

[MyJo]

It appears that Lennon is a joy to work with when things are going well but a nightmare when things are going badly. The problem is that the issue may be with team selection and tactics which the players can't do much about

Sounds about right and what we need is a manager that can galvanise the squad and get them back playing well again when things aren’t going well rather than putting the blame entirely on the players and making things worse

[One Day Soon]

After the Livi game, I thought Lennon did well summing up the frustrations most of us felt with Kamberi

"I don't know if it's a confidence thing or a lack of application but he's nowhere near as hungry as he was last season.

"This is a criticism but we've been sitting on this for weeks but we're getting no response from him. We maybe need to look at other avenues to get goals. That's up to him. We've been talking to him in private for a long time.

"It's his all-round work rate which isn't there. If you aren't doing that then we are a man down and that's not acceptable any more."


This is a key point. It is entirely possible for two things to have happened at the same time: Kamberi to have had his head turned/lost interest/chosen for whatever reason to just phone in his performances and Lennon to have been speaking with him over a lengthy period and then just run our of patience and allowed his frustration to be expressed publicly.

I have a lot of sympathy for the argument that being played as a lone striker with balls hoofed at him isn't ideal for getting the best out of him. Equally this does not look to me like the same Kamberi who played for us last year. Where has the tireless energetic closing down of the opposition gone? Where is the hold-up play?

The hairdryer no doubt doesn't work as effectively now and the quid pro quo is that these are - or ought to be - elite sportsmen who are dedicated to their profession and their performance. Except we know that this isn't always the case from the various examples at differing clubs of players who don't conduct themselves professionally: drink, diet, drugs, bad attitude, negative dressing room influence, endless 'injuries', agitating for moves and so on.

The only really effective card a manager has to play these days is either arm round the shoulder (which won't work with every player) or dropping a player and then shifting them on. What do you do if the player concerned is one of your most expensive, very difficult to replace and has been key to both your first team plans for the season and a core part of your recruitment plan, but isn't responding to anything?

If Lennon is going for gross misconduct - IF it is that reason - then he would have to have been culpable in those circumstances. Let's not pretend though that there hasn't also been a squad problem with a number of our players seriously under performing. There has and they need to stand up and be counted, they've certainly no-one else to hide behind now.

[hibbydog]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Brilliant post

[Arch Stanton]

After the Livi game, I thought Lennon did well summing up the frustrations most of us felt with Kamberi

"I don't know if it's a confidence thing or a lack of application but he's nowhere near as hungry as he was last season.

"This is a criticism but we've been sitting on this for weeks but we're getting no response from him. We maybe need to look at other avenues to get goals. That's up to him. We've been talking to him in private for a long time.

"It's his all-round work rate which isn't there. If you aren't doing that then we are a man down and that's not acceptable any more."

So, he didn't know if it was a confidence thing but decided to publicly pan him for lack of effort anyway? Looking at his penalty efforts it was obvious his confidence was shot FFS.

Fair enough that fans didn't know what it was but it sure was Lennon's job to know that.

[Hibrandenburg]

How the **** did he know this was coming? Wish he'd said earlier as 3-1 Hibs would have had decent odds.

[Onion]

Thought so...which is Why I find all the critique of yesterday's statement a bit bizarre as clearly the club need to be very careful about what they say in the media/ public domain

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Which, unfortunately, leaves NL free to put his own spin on the events through his media pals and Hibs unable to respond in any meaningful way.

Hope this doesn't get ugly as NL has been good for Hibs and has had a decent relationship with Hibs fans.

[Shrekko]

Even if they're not, it's hardly the key point of the post is it?

It was the whole of the first paragraph and yes it was very much part of the ‘why do people think it’s ok?’ jist of the post.

If theres no evidence they’re not then why post that’s the case?

You’re taking offence because of who’s post i quoted I assume?

[Captain Trips]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

I agree with this. I am really pissed off with NL and hope he just goes. Close to end of a transfer window when we are trying to make some important changes, sorry but NL can do one.

[proud_and_green]

There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Have a quadruple like for that excellent post!

[Pretty Boy]

It was the whole of the first paragraph and yes it was very much part of the ‘why do people think it’s ok?’ jist of the post.

If theres no evidence they’re not then why post that’s the case?

You’re taking offence because of who’s post i quoted I assume?

I've never been a fan of calling people out on a thread that they have either not seen or chosen not to contribute to so I'm not starting now.

In answer to your original question; yes there are a handful of posters I recall taking issue with fans criticising players at games and online who have, over the last few weeks and months, been broadly supportive of Neil Lennons 'home truths'. I'm sure there are many who are fine with both or disapproving of both as well.

I still think the general point stands. The odd ear bashing or stern word works now and again. When it becomes the dominant 'motivation' it is doomed to fail. I find individuals being singled out and, for lack of a better phrase, picked on distasteful in everyday life and I don't make an exception for football even allowing for the pressure and heated environment within the game.

[Leith's finest]

The only reason Efe signed for us was Lennon. I doubt he'll be back now.

This 100%

[Smartie]

I've never been a fan of calling people out on a thread that they have either not seen or chosen not to contribute to so I'm not starting now.

In answer to your original question; yes there are a handful of posters I recall taking issue with fans criticising players at games and online who have, over the last few weeks and months, been broadly supportive of Neil Lennons 'home truths'. I'm sure there are many who are fine with both or disapproving of both as well.

I still think the general point stands. The odd ear bashing or stern word works now and again. When it becomes the dominant 'motivation' it is doomed to fail. I find individuals being singled out and, for lack of a better phrase, picked on distasteful in everyday life and I don't make an exception for football even allowing for the pressure and heated environment within the game.

I'd love to know what happened in the dressing room at half-time today.

I reckon 100 out of 100 Hibs fans would have given them bollocking.

It makes me wonder about this man management stuff and how important the likes of halftime team talks actually are.

Our improvement came from a tactical tweak more than anything, and several of our players found something in themselves that hadn't been there earlier in the game.

[The 90+2]

I'd love to know what happened in the dressing room at half-time today.

I reckon 100 out of 100 Hibs fans would have given them bollocking.

It makes me wonder about this man management stuff and how important the likes of halftime team talks actually are.

Our improvement came from a tactical tweak more than anything, and several of our players found something in themselves that hadn't been there earlier in the game.

Probably told them to go out and play their game and the result will take care of themselves and concentrate on the positives .

[Hibbyradge]

I'd love to know what happened in the dressing room at half-time today.

I reckon 100 out of 100 Hibs fans would have given them bollocking.

It makes me wonder about this man management stuff and how important the likes of halftime team talks actually are.

Our improvement came from a tactical tweak more than anything, and several of our players found something in themselves that hadn't been there earlier in the game.

The cliché about a rocket up the erchie at half time has never rung true for me.

Players try as hard as they can to do well and if anyone is not quite firing on all cylinders, it's the exception so bollocking the entire team seems pointless.

If a player isn't doing what he's been asked to do, not making the correct runs it whatever, then certainly they should be spoken to, but what's the good in giving a player grief if they're doing their job?

That would demotivate me for sure.

[Liam978]

[QUOTE=Captain Trips;5683656]I agree with this. I am really pissed off with NL and hope he just goes. Close to end of a transfer window when we are trying to make some important changes, sorry but NL can do o
Please God he keeps the door open for you.

[Itsnoteasy]

The cliché about a rocket up the erchie at half time has never rung true for me.

Players try as hard as they can to do well and if anyone is not quite firing on all cylinders, it's the exception so bollocking the entire team seems pointless.

If a player isn't doing what he's been asked to do, not making the correct runs it whatever, then certainly they should be spoken to, but what's the good in giving a player grief if they're doing their job?

That would demotivate me for sure.

You win as a team you lose as a team. It's not an individual sport they are playing.

[Hibbyradge]

You win as a team you lose as a team. It's not an individual sport they are playing.

Are you suggesting that players who are doing well should be shouted at just because someone else isn't?

[matty_f]

It was the whole of the first paragraph and yes it was very much part of the ‘why do people think it’s ok?’ jist of the post.

If theres no evidence they’re not then why post that’s the case?

You’re taking offence because of who’s post i quoted I assume?
No, I just thought it seemed like needless nit-picking.

I thought the point of the post was about management methods changing from the says when it was ok to bawl at people.

Pretty Boy is more than capable of sticking up for himself, he doesn't need my help.

[hibeerealist]

[QUOTE=Captain Trips;5683656]I agree with this. I am really pissed off with NL and hope he just goes. Close to end of a transfer window when we are trying to make some important changes, sorry but NL can do o
Please God he keeps the door open for you.

Et tu, Brute!

What IF NL has put himself out on a limb to get Kamberi (and at considerable cost to HFC), is not happy with players attitude/work rate/performances and has tried the arm around the shoulder peck on the cheek then tries something else ...... then runs out of ways to get this guy to do what he was bought for?

I am sorry, I may be in a minority but NL is getting hung out to dry here and with little chance of the truth ever emerging. What have HFC not done that NL has requested in terms of securing players?

IF they have pushed the boat out and committed “every penny to the manager” as promised numerous times then there is little more they can do but does anyone on here actually believe they have and has the manager got grounds for feeling frustrated???

I am leaning towards frustration from the scenario above doubled up by the Kamberi situation resulting in him blowing his top. Whilst that might not be the way everyone would deal with it, or is not fair to the snowflakes of today then have some empathy with NL on this. Some of the comments about him have been painful to read.

In his defence I would say he “blew up” because he cares, he “blew up” because a player who is being very well paid by HFC is not giving value and he “blew up” because this all leads to him (and his support team) losing their jobs and the Hibs fans looking at him as a failure!!

He is suffering from many stab wounds today but I will not draw my knife!!!!

Lets all be careful of what we wish for and March is coming soon.......

[Captain Trips]

[QUOTE=Liam978;5683862]

Et tu, Brute!

What IF NL has put himself out on a limb to get Kamberi (and at considerable cost to HFC), is not happy with players attitude/work rate/performances and has tried the arm around the shoulder peck on the cheek then tries something else ...... then runs out of ways to get this guy to do what he was bought for?

I am sorry, I may be in a minority but NL is getting hung out to dry here and with little chance of the truth ever emerging. What have HFC not done that NL has requested in terms of securing players?

IF they have pushed the boat out and committed “every penny to the manager” as promised numerous times then there is little more they can do but does anyone on here actually believe they have and has the manager got grounds for feeling frustrated???

I am leaning towards frustration from the scenario above doubled up by the Kamberi situation resulting in him blowing his top. Whilst that might not be the way everyone would deal with it, or is not fair to the snowflakes of today then have some empathy with NL on this. Some of the comments about him have been painful to read.

In his defence I would say he “blew up” because he cares, he “blew up” because a player who is being very well paid by HFC is not giving value and he “blew up” because this all leads to him (and his support team) losing their jobs and the Hibs fans looking at him as a failure!!

He is suffering from many stab wounds today but I will not draw my knife!!!!

Lets all be careful of what we wish for and March is coming soon.......

I do not care what he was "promised" I am not happy with the league position and not happy he is suspended by somebody who has never been anything but level headed.

It's all as whole not good enough. I will hang him out to dry as much he has with certain players that fair enough?

[Hibbyradge]

[QUOTE=Liam978;5683862]

Et tu, Brute!

What IF NL has put himself out on a limb to get Kamberi (and at considerable cost to HFC), is not happy with players attitude/work rate/performances and has tried the arm around the shoulder peck on the cheek then tries something else ...... then runs out of ways to get this guy to do what he was bought for?

I am sorry, I may be in a minority but NL is getting hung out to dry here and with little chance of the truth ever emerging. What have HFC not done that NL has requested in terms of securing players?

IF they have pushed the boat out and committed “every penny to the manager” as promised numerous times then there is little more they can do but does anyone on here actually believe they have and has the manager got grounds for feeling frustrated???

I am leaning towards frustration from the scenario above doubled up by the Kamberi situation resulting in him blowing his top. Whilst that might not be the way everyone would deal with it, or is not fair to the snowflakes of today then have some empathy with NL on this. Some of the comments about him have been painful to read.

In his defence I would say he “blew up” because he cares, he “blew up” because a player who is being very well paid by HFC is not giving value and he “blew up” because this all leads to him (and his support team) losing their jobs and the Hibs fans looking at him as a failure!!

He is suffering from many stab wounds today but I will not draw my knife!!!!

Lets all be careful of what we wish for and March is coming soon.......

He was given every penny available. He even said that more money was there last year, but he didn't use it.

If he's run out of ideas as how to motivate players, then that's his failing. Compensating for that inadequacy by shouting and bullying is counter productive and really not acceptable.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Football employment, I guess it’s a two way street. Players get guaranteed, multi year contracts that seem largely watertight, if a player turns out to not be very good, tough, they still get their money. The flip side seems to be that they can be fined / docked wages if they don’t fulfill the obligations set out in their contract.

All they can be outright sacked on the spot for seems to be gross misconduct; violence, illegal behaviour and what not. They can be ‘sacked’ for other reasons, but that’d involve paying off the contract.

Managers seem to be closer to regular employees, they can be dismissed if they aren’t good enough, but they still seem to have fixed length contracts, so again, it’s a pay off. Or the gross misconduct again.

In general, it seems they’ve traded some employment rights for those guaranteed contracts and pay offs. Kind of like how contractors can have their contracts ended for no reason, no holiday or sick pay, all traded away for more money.

The same laws apply to football as any other employment, players and managers sign fixed term contracts, and 'not being good enough', 'poor results' etc are not a gross misconduct, so they almost never get sacked (Lennon will possibly be the exception). Unfortunately people talk about managers being 'sacked', which is a completely inaccurate description of what has happened.

Regarding the fining of players, again its not exceptional, it's not a fine, but a witholding of pay, which you've agreed to in contract of employment. This happens to 'regular' employees as well, e.g. suspension without pay as a discplinary measure is not unusual.

[Captain Trips]

[QUOTE=hibeerealist;5683970]

He was given every penny available. He even said that more money was there last year, but he didn't use it.

If he's run out of ideas as how to motivate players, then that's his failing. Compensating for that inadequacy by shouting and bullying is counter productive and really not acceptable.

Indeed and for me he is not bring hung out to dry he has been suspended by somebody whom I have a lot of respect for in their role and who has been nothing but professional to this point which says a lot for me on how this all played out.

[Shrekko]

No, I just thought it seemed like needless nit-picking.

I thought the point of the post was about management methods changing from the says when it was ok to bawl at people.

Pretty Boy is more than capable of sticking up for himself, he doesn't need my help.

Disagree it’s nit picking. Quite often you get people generalising in that way... when there’s no evidence of specific individuals actually contradicting themselves in the way claimed.

He made the point I responded to and then made further general comments about whether or not it’s ok for people to be abused etc.

I don’t think every reply to a post always covers absolutely everything that’s been said in the one quoted.

[Tyler Durden]

After the Livi game, I thought Lennon did well summing up the frustrations most of us felt with Kamberi

"I don't know if it's a confidence thing or a lack of application but he's nowhere near as hungry as he was last season.

"This is a criticism but we've been sitting on this for weeks but we're getting no response from him. We maybe need to look at other avenues to get goals. That's up to him. We've been talking to him in private for a long time.

"It's his all-round work rate which isn't there. If you aren't doing that then we are a man down and that's not acceptable any more."

I don't think this was a good statement at all.

They (Lennon and Parker) hadn't "been sitting on this for weeks". Parker had already slated Kamberi publicly a few weeks prior. Criticism that Kamberi had responded professionally to.

The Livvy game saw Kamberi dropped to the bench after 2 wins and a draw when he'd started. After a solid performance vs Rangers. Made no sense

Also the part about "don't know if it's confidence or application". That was Lennons job to know!