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View Full Version : Where are we now ...and where are we going?



belhavenbill
24-01-2019, 12:39 PM
Following the recent disappointing results and performances (let’s not kid ourselves the showing againstbp Elgin was nothing great) I’ve been trying to take a dispassionate look at the season, see where it has gone wrong and what,if anything, can be done about it. As a supporter of over 60 years I’ve been through this many times before, it just seems a bit worse at the moment because we had reach such a high point. Inevitably success attracts the attention of others and the inevitable dismantling of the team has happened. But there have been other factors.

Heres what I think has gone wrong:

1) Loss of our best players. Hibs regulars are used to losing our best players. What has been unfortunate is losing a whole, very talented midfield at one fell swoop. Add to this the subsequent departure of Efe Ambrose and we are a much weaker team than before. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
2) The aging of many of our stalwarts. The guys we could rely on such as Marvin and Daz, even Lewis and Paul aren’t the players they were a few seasons ago.
3) The many injuries to key players- Gray, Hanlon, Stevenson, McGregor, Boyle, McLaren, Marciano, Porteous and the disappearance for a month of our Australians has meant there has been no consistency. The temptation...indeed the clamour.... to get some of these guys back in the team early may have had detrimental repercussions.
4) The failure of some players to live up to last season. I’m thinking particularly of the forwards. The disappearance of the previous midfield must have had some impact, but maybe they are not as good as they appeared last season.
5) The early start to the season. Great as it was the European venture may have cost us energy wise at the end of last calendar year. That resulted in defeats and a collective loss in confidence which hasn’t been overcome yet. December was horrendous with the number of games, many of them against top teams, with a depleted squad.
6) The introduction of too many youngsters too quickly. This , I feel, may be controversial as people say, “ If they are good enough they are old enough “ While this may be true if they are used sparingly it is a lot to ask of young players to carry the team. Porteous and Mackie have done well but the former is now an injury problem and the latter is apt to indulge in the odd rash physical challenge. Shaw is struggling, Murray has been injured and Allan and Gullan have yet to make an impact.
7) Other teams have worked us out. They know if they press us we’ll go nowhere.
8) Recruitment has been patchy. Individually many of these players look impressive but they have failed to blend as a team. Any player signed is a risk to the manager. There are so many factors that can affect performances outside what happens on the pitch or in training.
9) Luck has deserted us. This tends to happen when teams are struggling, perhaps because they are struggling but we need something to go our way soon or else...
10) My lucky socks finally fell apart. I reckon this has been the major cause of our dismal run.

What next?
i fear for us at the moment as the defence looks old and slow, the midfield isn’t functioning and the strikers can’t score. But one good performance, one piece of brilliance could change things.

Youll notice I have steered clear of discussing the manager. I’m not a great fan of his but I don’t know who would do a better job in the present circumstances and we, the fans, don’t know what is going on backstage. If he had all his players fit , healthy and happy maybe we would be soaring but as it is....

Smartie
24-01-2019, 12:44 PM
Good post, and I agree with all but 6 and 9.

We don't have too many youngsters in the squad, and we haven't harmed them by putting them in. The emergence of the youngsters are one of the bright spots of the season, especially Porteous and recently Mackie. Shaw deserved a chance and not be protected forever, he's sort of but sort of not taken that chance. Injuries happen to players when they play the way Porteous does.

You make your own luck. If we sign better players, settle down the crazy frequency with which we alter the starting line-up, get better support up to Flo, drop Mallan, play Gray, get players in who can play better under pressure - we'll get a lot luckier.

Your socks have as much to do with where we are right now as luck.

Doh Rae Me
24-01-2019, 12:46 PM
10) My lucky socks finally fell apart. I reckon this has been the major cause of our dismal run.

Darn it.

Future17
24-01-2019, 12:49 PM
I doubt many people would agree with 6. I think 10 is irrefootable.

Mainstandman
24-01-2019, 12:56 PM
Accepting 10, we have been poor since I bought the third strip.

Col L
24-01-2019, 01:00 PM
Excellent post and you've picked out some of the key reasons we are under-performing.

I also don't entirely agree with 6 - it's been good to see the young guys given a chance, although I suspect that one or two of them aren't simply up to the top-level and time will tell.

I think we are suffering badly from a general lack of pace in the side, and lack of midfielders willing or able to get into the box and make things happen. We relied heavily on Boyle for pace, and were particularly effective last season when we had Brandon Barker on the pitch too. Scott Allan should change our attacking options from midfield, but even if we do get him in this window he's not going to be match-fit the way he was last time he arrived, and realistically it's all about next season for him.

Like many who have posted after last night's game, I am perplexed how Whittaker is chosen in front of David Gray. Whittaker's game in his first spell at ER was all about energy and athleticism - he's not got either now, and he's looking over the hill. Losing Efe was a major blow too - personally, he was my player of the season before he bolted.

This season is proving to be a huge disappointment, but when you look at the reasons outlined in the OP, it's clear to see why it has gone Pete Tong. I still believe in Lennon, but he's got to get his (and the team's) act together fast.

Hibbyradge
24-01-2019, 01:00 PM
1. We're rebuilding after losing the core of our team. It'll take a while.

How much do you think it would cost to replace SJM, Dylan, Scotty and Efe, like for like, in the open market? :dunno:

2. I fully expect to be on another European jaunt in July/August 2020.

Sammy7nil
24-01-2019, 01:05 PM
2. I fully expect to be on another European jaunt in July/August 2020.

Got your holidays booked already :greengrin:wink:

Hibbyradge
24-01-2019, 01:12 PM
Got your holidays booked already :greengrin:wink:

I would do, but I'm not sure if we'll be in qualifying round 3 or straight into the group stages :greengrin

Smartie
24-01-2019, 01:14 PM
1. We're rebuilding after losing the core of our team. It'll take a while.

How much do you think it would cost to replace SJM, Dylan, Scotty and Efe, like for like, in the open market? :dunno:

2. I fully expect to be on another European jaunt in July/August 2020.

A lot more than we have, therefore we shouldn't be trying to do that.

Porteous can be relied upon to be a consistent starter in place of Efe. Of more concern there is the form of Hanlon and McGregor. What are our plans long-term to re-model the centre of defence?

I don't see any sort of succession plan with our midfield. We've now got loads of players and no solid unit formed out of any of them. We have Slivka starting to look the part and regularly being dropped. We have 33 year old signings who miss half the season for whatever reason. We've got the odd 6 month loan, and then we've got the Mallan conundrum.

I'd love to say I saw where this was going but I don't.

Not having the money to replace the old midfield isn't the problem. Not having the ability to use the ample resource we have to form an alternative unit is starting to look to me to be the problem.

Greenbeard
24-01-2019, 01:17 PM
To answer the title question bottom six and bottom six, at least for this season alas.
The optimist in me says if we can sneak into the top six, we have tended to play better v. the top teams than we have against the mid-table teams so if we have a settled team by then maybe we could get a wee boost from a decent end-of-season run.

But I think that is pushing the optimism. The best we can maybe hope for is a good cup run, for which we will need the draw to be kind again, and hopefully again.

wookie70
24-01-2019, 01:57 PM
8th and 8th. Your points are all valid but the main problem to me is that if we had no injuries would Lennon have a formation and 11 players picked from the squad to play in it. Just like team selection I think recruitment has all been a bit like a tombola.

Hi Heid Yin
24-01-2019, 08:02 PM
Following the recent disappointing results and performances (let’s not kid ourselves the showing againstbp Elgin was nothing great) I’ve been trying to take a dispassionate look at the season, see where it has gone wrong and what,if anything, can be done about it. As a supporter of over 60 years I’ve been through this many times before, it just seems a bit worse at the moment because we had reach such a high point. Inevitably success attracts the attention of others and the inevitable dismantling of the team has happened. But there have been other factors.

Heres what I think has gone wrong:

1) Loss of our best players. Hibs regulars are used to losing our best players. What has been unfortunate is losing a whole, very talented midfield at one fell swoop. Add to this the subsequent departure of Efe Ambrose and we are a much weaker team than before. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
2) The aging of many of our stalwarts. The guys we could rely on such as Marvin and Daz, even Lewis and Paul aren’t the players they were a few seasons ago.
3) The many injuries to key players- Gray, Hanlon, Stevenson, McGregor, Boyle, McLaren, Marciano, Porteous and the disappearance for a month of our Australians has meant there has been no consistency. The temptation...indeed the clamour.... to get some of these guys back in the team early may have had detrimental repercussions.
4) The failure of some players to live up to last season. I’m thinking particularly of the forwards. The disappearance of the previous midfield must have had some impact, but maybe they are not as good as they appeared last season.
5) The early start to the season. Great as it was the European venture may have cost us energy wise at the end of last calendar year. That resulted in defeats and a collective loss in confidence which hasn’t been overcome yet. December was horrendous with the number of games, many of them against top teams, with a depleted squad.
6) The introduction of too many youngsters too quickly. This , I feel, may be controversial as people say, “ If they are good enough they are old enough “ While this may be true if they are used sparingly it is a lot to ask of young players to carry the team. Porteous and Mackie have done well but the former is now an injury problem and the latter is apt to indulge in the odd rash physical challenge. Shaw is struggling, Murray has been injured and Allan and Gullan have yet to make an impact.
7) Other teams have worked us out. They know if they press us we’ll go nowhere.
8) Recruitment has been patchy. Individually many of these players look impressive but they have failed to blend as a team. Any player signed is a risk to the manager. There are so many factors that can affect performances outside what happens on the pitch or in training.
9) Luck has deserted us. This tends to happen when teams are struggling, perhaps because they are struggling but we need something to go our way soon or else...
10) My lucky socks finally fell apart. I reckon this has been the major cause of our dismal run.

What next?
i fear for us at the moment as the defence looks old and slow, the midfield isn’t functioning and the strikers can’t score. But one good performance, one piece of brilliance could change things.

Youll notice I have steered clear of discussing the manager. I’m not a great fan of his but I don’t know who would do a better job in the present circumstances and we, the fans, don’t know what is going on backstage. If he had all his players fit , healthy and happy maybe we would be soaring but as it is....

Excellent and well-thought-out post :top marks

SteveHFC
24-01-2019, 08:55 PM
Bottom six.

Looking forward to spending our summer watching hibs in the league group stage.

Wakeyhibee
24-01-2019, 08:58 PM
Following the recent disappointing results and performances (let’s not kid ourselves the showing againstbp Elgin was nothing great) I’ve been trying to take a dispassionate look at the season, see where it has gone wrong and what,if anything, can be done about it. As a supporter of over 60 years I’ve been through this many times before, it just seems a bit worse at the moment because we had reach such a high point. Inevitably success attracts the attention of others and the inevitable dismantling of the team has happened. But there have been other factors.

Heres what I think has gone wrong:

1) Loss of our best players. Hibs regulars are used to losing our best players. What has been unfortunate is losing a whole, very talented midfield at one fell swoop. Add to this the subsequent departure of Efe Ambrose and we are a much weaker team than before. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
2) The aging of many of our stalwarts. The guys we could rely on such as Marvin and Daz, even Lewis and Paul aren’t the players they were a few seasons ago.
3) The many injuries to key players- Gray, Hanlon, Stevenson, McGregor, Boyle, McLaren, Marciano, Porteous and the disappearance for a month of our Australians has meant there has been no consistency. The temptation...indeed the clamour.... to get some of these guys back in the team early may have had detrimental repercussions.
4) The failure of some players to live up to last season. I’m thinking particularly of the forwards. The disappearance of the previous midfield must have had some impact, but maybe they are not as good as they appeared last season.
5) The early start to the season. Great as it was the European venture may have cost us energy wise at the end of last calendar year. That resulted in defeats and a collective loss in confidence which hasn’t been overcome yet. December was horrendous with the number of games, many of them against top teams, with a depleted squad.
6) The introduction of too many youngsters too quickly. This , I feel, may be controversial as people say, “ If they are good enough they are old enough “ While this may be true if they are used sparingly it is a lot to ask of young players to carry the team. Porteous and Mackie have done well but the former is now an injury problem and the latter is apt to indulge in the odd rash physical challenge. Shaw is struggling, Murray has been injured and Allan and Gullan have yet to make an impact.
7) Other teams have worked us out. They know if they press us we’ll go nowhere.
8) Recruitment has been patchy. Individually many of these players look impressive but they have failed to blend as a team. Any player signed is a risk to the manager. There are so many factors that can affect performances outside what happens on the pitch or in training.
9) Luck has deserted us. This tends to happen when teams are struggling, perhaps because they are struggling but we need something to go our way soon or else...
10) My lucky socks finally fell apart. I reckon this has been the major cause of our dismal run.

What next?
i fear for us at the moment as the defence looks old and slow, the midfield isn’t functioning and the strikers can’t score. But one good performance, one piece of brilliance could change things.

Youll notice I have steered clear of discussing the manager. I’m not a great fan of his but I don’t know who would do a better job in the present circumstances and we, the fans, don’t know what is going on backstage. If he had all his players fit , healthy and happy maybe we would be soaring but as it is....

Great post, I think point 4 is directly related to point 1. It'll take time to replace that midfield. It also affects the defence too.

I've seen lots of our best players cherry picked/lost over the years but never a complete midfield or any area of a team.

Expectation levels after a cup win, promotion and great 1st season back are totally unrealistic imho.

Outside of a seismic collapse we won't go down. I presume other deals are still in the pipeline. Our games up to the split could be a lot worse. So I don't think top 6 is out of reach.