second season syndrome

[RoslinInstHibby]

never really thought this was real until now...... Anyone believe that this is a genuine thing?

[Steve-O]

It’s Lennon’s third.

[RoslinInstHibby]

2nd season in the top division though....

[Hibernian Verse]

2nd season in the top division though....

No, it's losing our top players and not replacing them with anything near good enough syndrome.

[we are hibs]

Dont believe in it. We are where we are due to a lacklustre summer window and a manager who doesn't have a clue what his best team or formation is. If we had recruited better in the summer we would be higher. If Lennon put out a settled team in a settled shape then we might see a bit consistency.

[Slavers]

St Johnstone were pish last season but have come on strong again this season. Last nights team selection was all wrong, he should go with Mackie and Slivka should have started.

[cleanyman]

When have been let down badly this season considering the record backing we have given the team.

We are now stuck with bottom 6 players and if that's where we want to be then fair enough.

When Lennon leaves in the summer I'd punt Mallan, Horgan, Slivka, Whittaker, McGregor and Marv. None of these players are taking us anywhere and considering its pretty much half a team from last night its really poor stuff

[KeithTheHibby]

I don’t believe we have bad players.
Despite losing our midfield trio on paper we have stronger squads than Livi, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone and would like to think the equal of Hearts and Aberdeen.

Where we are going wrong is team selection and formations.
Admittedly injuries have not helped however all teams suffer that.
Selections and formations such as last night have been typical of the whole season. For some reason Lennon continues to chop and change which leads to an unsettled team and players not performing to their best ability.
I think the reason Livi, Killie, St J are performing better is not down to having better players, it’s down to a settled team and players being played in their correct position.

[wookie70]

I don’t believe we have bad players.
Despite losing our midfield trio on paper we have stronger squads than Livi, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone and would like to think the equal of Hearts and Aberdeen.

Where we are going wrong is team selection and formations.
Admittedly injuries have not helped however all teams suffer that.
Selections and formations such as last night have been typical of the whole season. For some reason Lennon continues to chop and change which leads to an unsettled team and players not performing to their best ability.
I think the reason Livi, Killie, St J are performing better is not down to having better players, it’s down to a settled team and players being played in their correct position.

I agree with that. I looked at those around us and their lineups don't change much week to week. They have understandings and partnerships which make the sum of their parts better. We have inconsistent selection, changing tactics and look like a rudderless ship heading for the rocks.

[Steve20]

We don't have as strong a squad as Aberdeen, Hearts or Killie. Sorry but that's just delusion talking.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I don’t believe we have bad players.
Despite losing our midfield trio on paper we have stronger squads than Livi, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone and would like to think the equal of Hearts and Aberdeen.

Where we are going wrong is team selection and formations.
Admittedly injuries have not helped however all teams suffer that.
Selections and formations such as last night have been typical of the whole season. For some reason Lennon continues to chop and change which leads to an unsettled team and players not performing to their best ability.
I think the reason Livi, Killie, St J are performing better is not down to having better players, it’s down to a settled team and players being played in their correct position.

This is where I'm at as well.

Nobody is saying that the loss of SJM, Dylan McGeouch, Scott Allan and now Efe Ambrose from last seasons team makes NL's job any easier and it would be churlish not to recognise that we have been incredibly unlucky with injuries to key players.

But, notwithstanding all of that it is up to the manager to make the best use of what resources he does have and IMO ( and it would appear that of a lot of other fans ) he isn't doing that. Last night was an absolute case in point where he shoehorned Hanlon in at left back when he had a guy on the bench who has been proving he is up to the job. Whittaker is an experienced right back so the decision to put him in there wasn't so controversial … the decision not to substitute or at least move him when it became clear after 20 minutes that he was getting roasted was however baffling.

Then you have Kamberi …. the guy has spent all season proving he isn't a lone front man and certainly not an effective target man, but our tactics appeared to be to lump the ball up to him time and again and leave the one midfielder in Gauld who might have had the wit to run onto any knock down he might manage miles away elsewhere on the pitch.

But my biggest concern, one I have repeated ad nauseum on here for weeks now, is Neil Lennon's apparent lack of information regarding how his opponents are likely to set up and play. If he does have that information he is either ignoring it or doesn't have the savvy to make use of it.

Time after time after time he is forced to change personnel, tactics and formation .. at times all three … during the match. Now that's a valuable trait in a manager that he can see where its going wrong during the 90 minutes and change things. But when it becomes something he has to do in practically every game the question has to be asked, why this is a theme? … why does he never seem able to set his team up at the start to address the problems the other side are going to present. There are few leagues in Europe where you get so much chance to see your opponents in action … that allows teams to set up to nullify us, but it also presents us with ample opportunity to assess how we need to play in each game … an opportunity we seem incapable of making use of.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

never really thought this was real until now...... Anyone believe that this is a genuine thing?

It's really effected Kilmarnock right enough.

[Hibeesmad]

Bogdan/Marciano
Gray/Whittaker
McGregor/Porteous
Hanlon/Milligan
Stevenson/Mackie
Gauld/Slivka
Horgan/Agyepong
Mallan/Murray
Bartley/Omeonga
Kamberi/MacLaren
Boyle/Shaw

On paper that is a very good squad with plenty of options in each position, unfortunately we have been struck down by multiple injuries all season

[Gettin' Auld]

I don’t believe we have bad players.
Despite losing our midfield trio on paper we have stronger squads than Livi, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone and would like to think the equal of Hearts and Aberdeen.

Where we are going wrong is team selection and formations.
Admittedly injuries have not helped however all teams suffer that.
Selections and formations such as last night have been typical of the whole season. For some reason Lennon continues to chop and change which leads to an unsettled team and players not performing to their best ability.
I think the reason Livi, Killie, St J are performing better is not down to having better players, it’s down to a settled team and players being played in their correct position.

I agree with that mate......

Some changes are unavoidable due to injuries and suspensions, but lennon is constantly chopping and changing almost game by game, when there's no need for it.
The players must be as puzzled as the fans.

Does Lennon see himself as some great tactician? I don't know, but how often has he had to make wholesale changes after 20 minutes because he got the line-up and/or tactics wrong?

Hanlon at left back, when proper left backs are on the bench.

Porteous being played when he was clearly struggling with his knee....

McGregor nearing the end of his career but battling on.

Whittaker never could tackle, has lost his athleticism and needlessly gives the ball away, way too often. Yet David Gray sits on the bench.

Then we had Bartley and Mallon sitting way too deep, with Kamberi up front on his own, which hasn't worked everytime we've played that way.

Gauld started off out on the right and the new lad Omeonga was thrown in at the deep end, a few nice touches but he looked a bit lost as if he didn't know where he was meant to be playing.

At the weekend, Lennon will probably make about 4 changes, alter the tactics yet again and still manage to play a couple of guys out of position.

Neither wonder we're struggling........

[Smartie]

I agree with that mate......

Some changes are unavoidable due to injuries and suspensions, but lennon is constantly chopping and changing almost game by game, when there's no need for it.
The players must be as puzzled as the fans.

Does Lennon see himself as some great tactician? I don't know, but how often has he had to make wholesale changes after 20 minutes because he got the line-up and/or tactics wrong?

Hanlon at left back, when proper left backs are on the bench.

Porteous being played when he was clearly struggling with his knee....

McGregor nearing the end of his career but battling on.

Whittaker never could tackle, has lost his athleticism and needlessly gives the ball away, way too often. Yet David Gray sits on the bench.

Then we had Bartley and Mallon sitting way too deep, with Kamberi up front on his own, which hasn't worked everytime we've played that way.

Gauld started off out on the right and the new lad Omeonga was thrown in at the deep end, a few nice touches but he looked a bit lost as if he didn't know where he was meant to be playing.

At the weekend, Lennon will probably make about 4 changes, alter the tactics yet again and still manage to play a couple of guys out of position.

Neither wonder we're struggling........

The worst thing that happened to him was that time we went to Ibrox last season with a depleted squad and he got a result with a wacky, cobbled together team with all sorts on players in funny positions.

It seems to now be his "go to" way to select a team, in spite of having multiple players available to play in their best position.

I think he's being too clever, when he has simpler answers staring him in the face.

Prior to that game at Ibrox I don't remember this being a feature of his selections at all.

Yes, he occasionally got starting line-ups wrong, selections that he has a good habit of correcting during a game, but you didn't normally have the daft stuff he's come up with this season.

His line-ups were actually very consistent during the second half of last season.

[James Stephen]

We don't have as strong a squad as Aberdeen, Hearts or Killie. Sorry but that's just delusion talking.

I would say we easily do.

We definitely dont have as good a manager/coach as those three though.

[James Stephen]

I don’t believe we have bad players.
Despite losing our midfield trio on paper we have stronger squads than Livi, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone and would like to think the equal of Hearts and Aberdeen.

Where we are going wrong is team selection and formations.
Admittedly injuries have not helped however all teams suffer that.
Selections and formations such as last night have been typical of the whole season. For some reason Lennon continues to chop and change which leads to an unsettled team and players not performing to their best ability.
I think the reason Livi, Killie, St J are performing better is not down to having better players, it’s down to a settled team and players being played in their correct position.

Totally agree.

We are massively underperforming.

[Sir David Gray]

Bogdan/Marciano
Gray/Whittaker
McGregor/Porteous
Hanlon/Milligan
Stevenson/Mackie
Gauld/Slivka
Horgan/Agyepong
Mallan/Murray
Bartley/Omeonga
Kamberi/MacLaren
Boyle/Shaw

On paper that is a very good squad with plenty of options in each position, unfortunately we have been struck down by multiple injuries all season

We have been able to play some combination of that squad in most matches this season though. If it's as good as you are saying then we wouldn't be 8th with only 2 league wins in almost 4 months.

I just think that some of our players in key positions just aren't good enough and need replaced in the summer.

[cabbageandribs1875]

When have been let down badly this season considering the record backing we have given the team.

We are now stuck with bottom 6 players and if that's where we want to be then fair enough.

When Lennon leaves in the summer I'd punt Mallan, Horgan, Slivka, Whittaker, McGregor and Marv. None of these players are taking us anywhere and considering its pretty much half a team from last night its really poor stuff


and pay out for a combined total of 6 years contracts ? ermmm..that aint gonna happen

[tamig]

2nd season in the top division though....

Different team this season so don’t think you can really compare this. The midfield and defensive injuries have been the main reasons for this season’s downturn imo.

[scotiaf]

We have good players, but not ones that compliment each other. To a lesser lesser extent it was like when we played, McGeouch, McGinn, fyvie and some one else in the same midfield but all centre mids. We played narrow but still had a lot more class in that 3/4. We are to slow up too and seem to be playing butcher tactics. Tough times

[Captain Trips]

I believe we will do a lot better "hopefully" but if we finish 6th or lower I would have to say NL should go. We are not in a massive rebuild we are in the position to be doing things in the division and in a position we have been waiting years for. We have an infrastructure in place a highly paid and experienced manager and a budget of a very decent level. They should be 100% delivering.

There is no excuse to be where we are just now.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm seriously hoping we cancel this planned full training pitch for East Mains, it will be a total ******* waste of money...just like the annual january jetaway holidays in sunnier climes for our players/staff

[Keith_M]

No, it's losing our top players and not replacing them with anything near good enough syndrome.


That's the one.

[Captain Trips]

i'm seriously hoping we cancel this planned full training pitch for East Mains, it will be a total ******* waste of money...just like the annual january jetaway holidays in sunnier climes for our players/staff

IMO the whole East Mains complex is OTT I said it at the time, however we stand here today with a training complex, lovely stadium, 1000s of ST holders and we are 8th. Not ****ing good enough.

[Captain Trips]

No, it's losing our top players and not replacing them with anything near good enough syndrome.

We will always lose our top players as will most of the other clubs around us as well.

[Hibernian Verse]

We will always lose our top players as will most of the other clubs around us as well.Correct. But we haven't replaced them.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Nicho87]

Whittaker
fraser murray
lewis allan
slivka
nelom
mclaren
shaw

either should be punted or loaned out. Total waste of wages currently

[J-C]

Pick a system and stick to it, there will always be rotation but at least the players will know what they're doing.Look at Spurs generally without fail 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1, only thing that changes is personnel.

[007]

I would say we easily do.

We definitely dont have as good a manager/coach as those three though.

I'd say Levein is a worse manager/coach than Lennon.

[Captain Trips]

Correct. But we haven't replaced them.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I was not expecting us to replace them however IMO we have brought in good enough players to be better than 8th. Injury, bad play and bad decisions from manager see us 8th far more so than the loss of players.

[Hibernian Verse]

I was not expecting us to replace them however IMO we have brought in good enough players to be better than 8th. Injury, bad play and bad decisions from manager see us 8th far more so than the loss of players.I hope you're right and we kick on

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Forza Fred]

I would say we easily do.

We definitely dont have as good a manager/coach as those three though.

Hmmmmm.

[21.05.2016]

Our midfield was the best in the league last season with McGinn, McGeouch, Allan and Barker. We lost them all in the summer as we very much expected to and we knew that would be very very hard to replace. We haven't replaced that midfield with the same quality.

We've been a bit unfortunate with injuries but nevertheless we really should be doing better. It isn't a bad squad but nothing has been able to settle due to the constant chopping and changing of team selection.

[Bobby's Cinema]

The difference coming away from games is stark. Particularly compared with the top six home games last season killi, Celtic, rangers. Generally frustrating pretty much all season.

Biggest disappointment for me is Flo. Bar 1/2 games he has been brutal to watch a shadow of the guy last season. Most games this season at ER have come Away feeling frustrated.

I do think the pace set by the top4 has been pretty relentless, as that’s not to say we shouldn’t be up there.

Season ticket renewal numbers will be interesting..

[James Stephen]

I'd say Levein is a worse manager/coach than Lennon.

Maybe, its definitely the most contentious.
I dont like him, but his ability to set a team up and get them doing what he wants is undeniable.

Its just hes a negative *****bag and often instructs his teams to be negative - not my cup of tea, but the guy knows how to set up a team.

And i dont think they have better players than us, yet are a stronger team.

[Sir David Gray]

The difference coming away from games is stark. Particularly compared with the top six home games last season killi, Celtic, rangers. Generally frustrating pretty much all season.

Biggest disappointment for me is Flo. Bar 1/2 games he has been brutal to watch a shadow of the guy last season. Most games this season at ER have come Away feeling frustrated.

I do think the pace set by the top4 has been pretty relentless, as that’s not to say we shouldn’t be up there.

Season ticket renewal numbers will be interesting..

The difference is that last season, I genuinely felt like we had a chance of winning every game. Obviously we didn't win every game but I went into each one fairly confident that we at least had a chance.

Over the last couple of months, I genuinely haven't been confident of us beating any side. That is the start of a worrying slide and I'm concerned that we are going in the wrong direction.

[mjhibby]

Dont believe in it. We are where we are due to a lacklustre summer window and a manager who doesn't have a clue what his best team or formation is. If we had recruited better in the summer we would be higher. If Lennon put out a settled team in a settled shape then we might see a bit consistency.

If he had a settled squad I agree but at the moment he is minus a few regulars and has been for the last two months. No Stevenston,Boyle,ayyepong,mclaren. It's been impossible to play the same team and Ambrose going hasn't helped. Unless we either get in a couple of players who will greatly enhance the team like Allan and flo did last January or the injury situation eases then we ate going to be very inconsistent. You only have to look at hertz. If they hadn't got a few lucky breaks at the start of the season they would be probably be on the same points mark. We don't have the squad or finance to cope with seven or eight players out at a time. Last season,very rarely did we have two of the midfield three out so had continuity. It just hasn't been there. No excuse for some of the poor performances but a mitigating aspect of it. Things can only get better as d ream hollered long ago.

[Smartie]

The second season after we went up last time was our excellent season with Sauzee, Latapy etc. That season tailed off when it became clear a few big players wanted to move on.

This season definitely has the feel of the season after that one though. We were never going to replace the quality we'd lost but in spite of that we still brought some decent quality in (Luna, Brewster, De la Cruz) but didn't really appreciate them much at the time.

[Liberal Hibby]

Maybe, its definitely the most contentious.
I dont like him, but his ability to set a team up and get them doing what he wants is undeniable.

Its just hes a negative *****bag and often instructs his teams to be negative - not my cup of tea, but the guy knows how to set up a team.

And i dont think they have better players than us, yet are a stronger team.

Remind me how many trophies Potter has won?