US Government partial shutdown.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This isn't the first time this has happened, I'm sure the same thing happened during Obama's presidency … but my post isn't about the rights or wrongs of what has caused the shutdown.

What I cant believe is that any modern day country would allow a state of affairs where people ( 800,000 of them I understand ) are left without pay for an indeterminate length of time while the politicians argue the toss with each other. According to Trump he is prepared for the stalemate to last for months, even years, until he gets his way, without it would appear a single thought to the folk who cant afford to pay their bills and for some who soon enough wont be able to afford to eat.

Surely to goodness the worlds most powerful democracy can find a system where disputes between its politicians doesn't involve using thousands of its employees, thousands of its citizens, as pawns in such a cold hearted and cynical way and worse causing them real suffering in the process.

Can you imagine if such a thing happened in France for example, the enraged workers would burn down parliament. If I was one of these 800,000 workers being so ill used by their employers I would make sure that during my government imposed period of idleness I would get folk organised into a form of non violent protest, for example showing the politicians what the term 'shut down' really means by blocking every road into Washington DC with cars vans and any amount of random debris they could get their hands on.

I cant for the life of me understand why anybody would want to work for the US government under these Dickensian conditions … I presume its the only work most of these people can get.

[McD]

This isn't the first time this has happened, I'm sure the same thing happened during Obama's presidency … but my post isn't about the rights or wrongs of what has caused the shutdown.

What I cant believe is that any modern day country would allow a state of affairs where people ( 800,000 of them I understand ) are left without pay for an indeterminate length of time while the politicians argue the toss with each other. According to Trump he is prepared for the stalemate to last for months, even years, until he gets his way, without it would appear a single thought to the folk who cant afford to pay their bills and for some who soon enough wont be able to afford to eat.

Surely to goodness the worlds most powerful democracy can find a system where disputes between its politicians doesn't involve using thousands of its employees, thousands of its citizens, as pawns in such a cold hearted and cynical way and worse causing them real suffering in the process.

Can you imagine if such a thing happened in France for example, the enraged workers would burn down parliament. If I was one of these 800,000 workers being so ill used by their employers I would make sure that during my government imposed period of idleness I would get folk organised into a form of non violent protest, for example showing the politicians what the term 'shut down' really means by blocking every road into Washington DC with cars vans and any amount of random debris they could get their hands on.

I cant for the life of me understand why anybody would want to work for the US government under these Dickensian conditions … I presume its the only work most of these people can get.



I think trump is extremely cynically doing this to force through his wall budget, he’ll wait out the democrats knowing they will eventually give in for exactly the reasons you’ve suggested, people ending up starving and potentially homeless if it goes on long enough. Despicable



i totally agree btw, how a nation that loves to style itself as leader of the free world, land of the brave and home of the free, can allow its own people to suffer whilst the well off politicians bicker is beyond me.

[RyeSloan]

While I knew it was shutdown because of budgets I had kind of assumed that the workers were still getting paid!

Do they get back pay once the issue is resolved?

[Just Alf]

While I knew it was shutdown because of budgets I had kind of assumed that the workers were still getting paid!

Do they get back pay once the issue is resolved?

I originally thought that as well!

It's a mixed bag.... Some are laid off on 'furlough' ..... Basically unpaid holiday, others in essential services (border force etc) are made to work as normal but don't get paid, at least not until it's all over then they'll get the back pay.

[Just Jimmy]

answer is simple then; these essential works should just say no pay no work.

they'd soon fix the issue if millions of illegal immigrants were streaming over the board because the US Government wouldn't pay the board force etc.

it's pathetic in 2019 and like a lot of America, it's completely backwards.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[jonty]

Trump has gone from "Mexico will pay for the wall" and "proud to shut down this government" to demanding a budget for taxpayers to pay for the wall and blaming the democrats for the shutdown.

The man is an utter ****-socket.

[lyonhibs]

I was thinking this as well. I cannot comprehend how the governmental structure of a country like the USA was set up in such a way that allows for this scenario to arise - it's absolutely mental.

I'm no expert - could this happen in the UK? The Chancellor presents his little red briedfcase, that's the budget and - even if it's ***** - the country and government departments etc work with that right? Or could the opposition side of the house vote that budget down - not possible right?

[NAE NOOKIE]

I was thinking this as well. I cannot comprehend how the governmental structure of a country like the USA was set up in such a way that allows for this scenario to arise - it's absolutely mental.

I'm no expert - could this happen in the UK? The Chancellor presents his little red briedfcase, that's the budget and - even if it's ***** - the country and government departments etc work with that right? Or could the opposition side of the house vote that budget down - not possible right?

No mate, Civil servants and the like work for the crown ( barf ) not the government, so they are paid by the state rather than the government of the day. It looks like in the US the situation is different and the administration in power has to get the money to pay them approved … I presume that money is included along with Trumps wall project, hence no money for the wall, no money to pay the workers.

Its a shameful situation and in view of the fact that this isn't the first time its happened surely to hell its time US government employees got together and took steps to ensure that this cant happen …. If 800,000 folk is a partial shutdown I can only imagine how many folk the US government actually employs ….. time for the whole bloody lot of them to stage a strike until the government comes up with a way to make the budget for their wages a separate stand alone issue. Having said that, if the current administration is happy to see parts of the running of the state grind to a halt for months I cant see anything other than a strike lasting years move the buggers.

As I said in my OP …. perhaps more 'direct' action would be the order of the day … long live the revolution :flag:

[calumhibee1]

No mate, Civil servants and the like work for the crown ( barf ) not the government, so they are paid by the state rather than the government of the day. It looks like in the US the situation is different and the administration in power has to get the money to pay them approved … I presume that money is included along with Trumps wall project, hence no money for the wall, no money to pay the workers.

Its a shameful situation and in view of the fact that this isn't the first time its happened surely to hell its time US government employees got together and took steps to ensure that this cant happen …. If 800,000 folk is a partial shutdown I can only imagine how many folk the US government actually employs ….. time for the whole bloody lot of them to stage a strike until the government comes up with a way to make the budget for their wages a separate stand alone issue. Having said that, if the current administration is happy to see parts of the running of the state grind to a halt for months I cant see anything other than a strike lasting years move the buggers.

As I said in my OP …. perhaps more 'direct' action would be the order of the day … long live the revolution :flag:

I’m sure it’s around 2.5m government employees.

[McD]

Athough it’s happened before, I don’t think it’s ever happened because the president has petulantly demanded his own ridiculous pet project is funded by billions. It’s happened before because the 2 parties have been bickering when the 2 houses have been separately controlled.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Athough it’s happened before, I don’t think it’s ever happened because the president has petulantly demanded his own ridiculous pet project is funded by billions. It’s happened before because the 2 parties have been bickering when the 2 houses have been separately controlled.

As I said though mate …. The point isn't why it happens, but why on earth bickering between politicians no matter who they are and no matter what the reason can be allowed to put hundreds of thousands of people, a lot of whom probably live hand to mouth like workers everywhere, into a position where they aren't getting paid ….. made all the more unpalatable when its a 100% certainty that the folk causing their misery are still getting paid and even if they weren't could probably live off their bank accounts for years.

Perhaps they should introduce a law that the second a government shutdown starts the politicians stop getting paid, and the money they lose stays lost for ever … that might help.

[Haymaker]

I can't complain, through immigration at JFK in record time today with only one geezer on a desk.

[NAE NOOKIE]

As an addendum to my OP.

The other thing I don't get is, when faced with reports of workers struggling to pay their bills and reports that inevitably some of them are going to get to the stage where they cant heat their houses in a city which can get very cold in the winter and that some will even to struggle to feed their families, why isn't there a public outcry from their fellow citizens in support of them?

I mean, if it bothers me a person who isn't actually affected by it in the slightest why am I not seeing reports of a public outcry by the American public who are far closer to the situation? Mind you, this is a country where ordinary people were down on a new healthcare system which would have made medical treatment available to far more of their fellow citizens, for no other reason that I could see than they saw it as 'un American' ….. If you don't have to pay through the nose for it and nobody's getting rich, it must be a Commie plot, was that it?

Anyway, perhaps some of our more USA savvy posters could enlighten me as to why folk in the US don't seem very concerned by their fellow citizens being treated like ***** by their own government :dunno:

[lapsedhibee]

As an addendum to my OP.

The other thing I don't get is, when faced with reports of workers struggling to pay their bills and reports that inevitably some of them are going to get to the stage where they cant heat their houses in a city which can get very cold in the winter and that some will even to struggle to feed their families, why isn't there a public outcry from their fellow citizens in support of them?


You shouldn't have to stick up for other people in the USA because everyone should have a gun to defend him/herself - think that's the theory, isn't it?

[Lendo]

I would be very very surprised if Trump fully understood what a Shutdown is and how it affects federal employees in terms of them losing pay.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I would be very very surprised if Trump fully understood what a Shutdown is and how it affects federal employees in terms of them losing pay.

I think he understands just fine. The trouble is that he is a self centred bully whose psychology borders on sociopathic and a guy like that wont give a stuff who suffers or for how long just so long as he gets what he wants.

As I once heard someone say, not about Trump but it applies to him …. 'he would burn down the world if it meant he could rule over the ashes' …. the thought of that nutter with his hand on the button gives me the fear.

[Jack Hackett]

I think he understands just fine. The trouble is that he is a self centred bully whose psychology borders on sociopathic and a guy like that wont give a stuff who suffers or for how long just so long as he gets what he wants.

As I once heard someone say, not about Trump but it applies to him …. 'he would burn down the world if it meant he could rule over the ashes' …. the thought of that nutter with his hand on the button gives me the fear.

No bordering with this guy... he ticks pretty much all the boxes

https://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

[McD]

As I said though mate …. The point isn't why it happens, but why on earth bickering between politicians no matter who they are and no matter what the reason can be allowed to put hundreds of thousands of people, a lot of whom probably live hand to mouth like workers everywhere, into a position where they aren't getting paid ….. made all the more unpalatable when its a 100% certainty that the folk causing their misery are still getting paid and even if they weren't could probably live off their bank accounts for years.

Perhaps they should introduce a law that the second a government shutdown starts the politicians stop getting paid, and the money they lose stays lost for ever … that might help.



:agree: Completely agree mate

[Hibbyradge]

No bordering with this guy... he ticks pretty much all the boxes

https://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

:agree:

That's frightening.

[NAE NOOKIE]

No bordering with this guy... he ticks pretty much all the boxes

https://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Bloody hell, even if your knowledge of Trump is only based on what you have seen of him on the TV and read about him, he ( as you say ) ticks so many of the boxes in that article its bloody scary ….. To me an interesting article, to Donald Trump a mirror :confused:

[Just Alf]

Annoy Trump :-)

https://www.joe.ie/politics/trump-tower-obama-petition-653912


Childish I know but made me smile :greengrin

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

I think he understands just fine. The trouble is that he is a self centred bully whose psychology borders on sociopathic and a guy like that wont give a stuff who suffers or for how long just so long as he gets what he wants.

As I once heard someone say, not about Trump but it applies to him …. 'he would burn down the world if it meant he could rule over the ashes' …. the thought of that nutter with his hand on the button gives me the fear.

In the interest of balance I disagree totally with this.

I see him as someone who is standing up for his county and the people in it. The working class who have had their voices ignored for years as the left has taken over.

Trump has never once said he’s against immigration. He’s against illegal immigration which I would have thought everyone should agree with?

And yet the media there portray him as some kind of bullying white supremacist.

It’s crazy. You want to talk about white supremacy then look at the Democratic Party. The party of the KKK, Andrew Jackson and the Jim Crow laws.

Hell they were in force up until the civil rights movement in the 60s and even then more Democrats opposed the Civil Rights Act than Republicans.

I’d have trump over Clinton every day of the week.

[Rocky]

In the interest of balance I disagree totally with this.

I see him as someone who is standing up for his county and the people in it. The working class who have had their voices ignored for years as the left has taken over.

Trump has never once said he’s against immigration. He’s against illegal immigration which I would have thought everyone should agree with?

And yet the media there portray him as some kind of bullying white supremacist.

It’s crazy. You want to talk about white supremacy then look at the Democratic Party. The party of the KKK, Andrew Jackson and the Jim Crow laws.

Hell they were in force up until the civil rights movement in the 60s and even then more Democrats opposed the Civil Rights Act than Republicans.

I’d have trump over Clinton every day of the week.

Always interested in other perspectives. Could you outline which of his policies are intended to benefit the working class?

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m not massively clued up on internal USA politics but for starters the new trade agreements he’s working on with Canada and Mexico and the trade war with China are all designed to help the Americans economy which in turn benefits the working class.

More jobs have been created there since Trump took over than during the whole of the Obama administration.

I get that a lot of people hate Trump but when you scratch beneath the surface and look at policy decisions he’s doing not bad at all.

North Korea is another example. How many Presidents tried and failed to get them around the table?

Unless the Democrats completly overhaul themselves and work out what they stand for then Trump will easily get re-elected. There’s not another Republican about to step in.

[Rocky]

I’m not massively clued up on internal USA politics but for starters the new trade agreements he’s working on with Canada and Mexico and the trade war with China are all designed to help the Americans economy which in turn benefits the working class.

More jobs have been created there since Trump took over than during the whole of the Obama administration.

I get that a lot of people hate Trump but when you scratch beneath the surface and look at policy decisions he’s doing not bad at all.

North Korea is another example. How many Presidents tried and failed to get them around the table?

Unless the Democrats completly overhaul themselves and work out what they stand for then Trump will easily get re-elected. There’s not another Republican about to step in.

On the trade deals point, if you're arguing that a stronger economy necessarily leads to benefits for the working class I assume you're basically attributing this to trickle down economic theory? I.e. as the rich get richer there'll be more crumbs falling off their plate for the poor. If not could you elaborate in more detail how the strong economy (which is arguable anyway) translates into benefits for the working class?

Have you got some evidence you could point me to on the jobs creation one?

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m at work so don’t have the time to, you could do your own reading and research though!

As for your point about trickle down, surely the bottom line is that if the poor are becoming better off then that’s a good thing?

It matters not a jot what is happening to the wealthiest in society.

The old maxim of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

There is no harm in a wage gap. There’s always been people wealthier than others.

Jeff Bezos’s neighbours earn considerably less than him but I doubt they’re struggling to get by!

[Rocky]

I’m at work so don’t have the time to, you could do your own reading and research though!

As for your point about trickle down, surely the bottom line is that if the poor are becoming better off then that’s a good thing?

It matters not a jot what is happening to the wealthiest in society.

The old maxim of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

There is no harm in a wage gap. There’s always been people wealthier than others.

Jeff Bezos’s neighbours earn considerably less than him but I doubt they’re struggling to get by!


I would do my own research if I was trying to get my opinion across on a forum. I'm not, I'm querying yours hence the onus is on you to back it up if you want me to agree with your opinions. Tbh I don't suppose you care whether I agree with you or not, which is cool. I said I was interested in other perspectives, but only if they have some substance. Not seen any evidence that yours has so I'll dismiss it and move on, I was just genuinely interested.

[WhileTheChief..]

That’s cool.

I don’t get why you need evidence and substance to another perspective but not to your own though?

I’m also just making broad statements, I don’t think any of us really need to go into the minutiae of American economics!

My basic point is that it’s easy just to say Trump’s a nutter and move on. That’s the accepted line right?

Drift off that and you’re in danger of becoming a racist, white supremacist who is ignorant and uneducated. I don’t accept that at all.

[Rocky]

That’s cool.

I don’t get why you need evidence and substance to another perspective but not to your own though?

I’m also just making broad statements, I don’t think any of us really need to go into the minutiae of American economics!

My basic point is that it’s easy just to say Trump’s a nutter and move on. That’s the accepted line right?

Drift off that and you’re in danger of becoming a racist, white supremacist who is ignorant and uneducated. I don’t accept that at all.

I do need evidence and substance before I form my own views. And based on all the evidence and substance I've seen I think Trump is a racist, misogynist sociopath who doesn't give two hoots about the working class. My point is that if I was going in to put that view forward unsolicited on a forum I'd expect to be challenged on it and have my evidence ready to back it up. I didn't, I came in to have a read, saw your post and was interested to hear more about your perspective.

Seeing as I now know you'll ask for evidence I'll quote a few examples I suppose:

- Racism - the 'there are bad guys on both sides' comment was a good example
- Misogynist - 'I grabbed her by the pussy'
- Sociopath - relentless lying and fixation upon his own popularity
- Working class - various examples I've seen of him shafting employees / suppliers. There was one with an architect that was particularly insightful

Those are just the tip of the iceberg of all the things I've seen in the years he's been in power and before and on which I've based my opinion.

[WhileTheChief..]

So are we discussing Trump the man or his policies?

I’ve no time for him personally and think he comes across terribly most of the time.

I agree with a lot of his policies though.

[Rocky]

So are we discussing Trump the man or his policies?

I’ve no time for him personally and think he comes across terribly most of the time.

I agree with a lot of his policies though.

To be honest if I'd seen your post on the other thread first I wouldn't have bothered trying to discuss anything with you at all. Saying that Black Lives matter is a product of the 'evil hard left' and is somehow hugely dangerous is a level of fruit loopery it's impossible to engage with.

Sorry for taking up your time.

[WhileTheChief..]

Fair dos.

[Mibbes Aye]

I was thinking this as well. I cannot comprehend how the governmental structure of a country like the USA was set up in such a way that allows for this scenario to arise - it's absolutely mental.

I'm no expert - could this happen in the UK? The Chancellor presents his little red briedfcase, that's the budget and - even if it's ***** - the country and government departments etc work with that right? Or could the opposition side of the house vote that budget down - not possible right?

The structure of government in the USA came about on purpose. It was very much a child of its times - heavily influenced by the French Revolution and the political thinking of its day.

At the heart of it was the separation between the executive, legislative and judicial branches, with the intent that they would balance each other out, but critically, the executive would not have overreaching power.

It has evolved over the last two hundred plus years but essentially, if the executive is one party and the legislature is another then the only way to enact policy is through negotiation.

What complicates it is that the legislature comprises the Senate and the House of Representatives. They have different powers, different make-ups and different roles.

I guess the whole point at the time was a desire to create a structure that was resistant to absolute power. To an extent it created that, though the executive branch over time found ways to circumvent the legislative branch (Congress) through executive orders and the like. There have been periods in American history where the Senate has been decisively in charge but probably since Theodore Roosevelt, those days have faded.

At its best Congress can still exercise genuine power and policymaking, against whoever is president, but in the 20th century and this century, power has shifted towards the White House.

In answer to your question, the Chancellor presents a budget and it is voted upon. Given they are usually representing the majority party in the House then it's pretty much a done deal. If a budget were to be voted down then I think convention would demand an immediate general election or some sort of reconfiguration in the governing party and a new budget being presented.

[staunchhibby]

Bet he is still getting his salary while other workers are going without during this shutdown

[jonty]

US Labor Dept states Obama created more jobs than Trump
Obama 2.2m in 2016, trump 2.1m in 2017

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-02/trump-created-more-jobs-than-previously-reported-so-did-obama

Also
https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/01/news/economy/jobs-trump-vs-obama/index.html
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/sep/20/donald-trump/how-strong-job-growth-been-trumps-watch/

Thanks to quora
https://www.quora.com/Has-Donald-Trump-created-more-jobs-his-first-year-of-President-than-Barack-Obama

[RyeSloan]

Thing is presidents don’t create jobs and it’s a sign of the times that such things are now considered a fact.

Also even if certain policies can be directly linked to job creation they often take time to come to the fore so a president claiming credit for job growth in the formative years of a presidency is almost certainly taking credit for the ground work laid by the predecessor.

Trump was also bust taking credit for the stock market returns before they turned negative when he quickly about faced and blamed the downturn on the Fed.

[easty]

Bet he is still getting his salary while other workers are going without during this shutdown

He donates it doesn’t he? Or was that just something he said he’d do?

[lapsedhibee]

He donates it doesn’t he? Or was that just something he said he’d do?

He's a generous guy. Catering at the White Hoose is affected so out of his own pocket he treated guests to burgers, pizza and French fries, which he described as "all American food". ****wit.

[jonty]

Thing is presidents don’t create jobs and it’s a sign of the times that such things are now considered a fact.

Also even if certain policies can be directly linked to job creation they often take time to come to the fore so a president claiming credit for job growth in the formative years of a presidency is almost certainly taking credit for the ground work laid by the predecessor.

Trump was also bust taking credit for the stock market returns before they turned negative when he quickly about faced and blamed the downturn on the Fed.

That's my take on it.
I was interested in seeing what the facts were - you can almost guarantee its the opposite of what Trump claims.

[Tobias Funke]

The man is such a **** that it wouldn't surprise me if he was using the shutdown to deflect attention away from "this Russier thing", as he calls it. :rolleyes:

[Slavers]

Not a chance Hillary would have purchased everyone a big mac and fries out her own pocket!

[Callum_62]

Not a chance Hillary would have purchased everyone a big mac and fries out her own pocket!

Im doubtful anyone paid for them in money

Publicity maybe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[easty]

Not a chance Hillary would have purchased everyone a big mac and fries out her own pocket!

That's a strange dig at Hilary Clinton. You should get it put on a T-shirt :aok:

[Slavers]

That's a strange dig at Hilary Clinton. You should get it put on a T-shirt :aok:

That catchphrase is going on the back of my Yellow Vest!!

[Lester B]

That catchphrase is going on the back of my Yellow Vest!!

I'm sure we could run a wee competition what to put on your yellow vest. In terms of the suggestions I'm sure you wouldn't wear it: Literally or figuratively.

[Tobias Funke]

I'm sure we could run a wee competition what to put on your yellow vest. In terms of the suggestions I'm sure you wouldn't wear it: Literally or figuratively.

I am sure their yellow vest would look great together with their tinfoil hat. :aok:

[Bristolhibby]

Not a chance Hillary would have purchased everyone a big mac and fries out her own pocket!

Correct as there wouldn’t have been a shutdown.

J

[Smartie]

I'm sure we could run a wee competition what to put on your yellow vest. In terms of the suggestions I'm sure you wouldn't wear it: Literally or figuratively.

I want the following on mine.......




I don’t get why you need evidence and substance

Modern populism in a nutshell.

[Lester B]

I want the following on mine.......



Modern populism in a nutshell.

That's not perfect but...who am I kidding..it is perfect :top marks

[Slavers]

Lefties appear upside down on my tin foil hat!

[Pete]

You can talk about economics and jobs all you want but here's what can Trump also create.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/20/outcry-after-kentucky-students-in-maga-hats-mock-native-american-veteran

Absolutely heartbreaking as it appears like the same stare as the one from 500 odd years ago. The one of cultural and racial superiority.

However, I'd like some context before going mad as it might not be all it seems.

[Newry Hibs]

You can talk about economics and jobs all you want but here's what can Trump also create.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/20/outcry-after-kentucky-students-in-maga-hats-mock-native-american-veteran

Absolutely heartbreaking as it appears like the same stare as the one from 500 odd years ago. The one of cultural and racial superiority.

However, I'd like some context before going mad as it might not be all it seems.

Indeed it might not be all it seems

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=59696&fbclid=IwAR2zMvO8KVV9WHaYuoja10K_yM8imUY9E1a4ELtDB IEwo7N-HTzKPgFf_DE

[Newry Hibs]

Indeed it might not be all it seems

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=59696&fbclid=IwAR2zMvO8KVV9WHaYuoja10K_yM8imUY9E1a4ELtDB IEwo7N-HTzKPgFf_DE

BBC also reigning back in after they joined the ridiculous band wagon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46943364

Not seen any tweets from the US politicians who were very quick to condemn.

[Callum_62]

BBC also reigning back in after they joined the ridiculous band wagon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46943364

Not seen any tweets from the US politicians who were very quick to condemn.

Motionless and calm diffusing the situation

Puleeese


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

Indeed it might not be all it seems

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=59696&fbclid=IwAR2zMvO8KVV9WHaYuoja10K_yM8imUY9E1a4ELtDB IEwo7N-HTzKPgFf_DE

Information Liberation is an extreme right wing, fake news and propaganda organ.

[Newry Hibs]

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=59696&fbclid=IwAR2zMvO8KVV9WHaYuoja10K_yM8imUY 9E1a4ELtDBIEwo7N-HTzKPgFf_DE
Information Liberation is an extreme right wing, fake news and propaganda organ.

Does that make them wrong in this case though?
There just seem to be a jumping to conclusion in the media - BBC included (fake news and propaganda organ?). Then the twitter keyboard warriors take over with their threats. No condemnation of them though.


(Link corrected)

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=59696&fbclid=IwAR2zMvO8KVV9WHaYuoja10K_yM8imUY 9E1a4ELtDBIEwo7N-HTzKPgFf_DE

Does that make them wrong in this case though?
There just seem to be a jumping to conclusion in the media - BBC included (fake news and propaganda organ?). Then the twitter keyboard warriors take over with their threats. No condemnation of them though.


(Link corrected)

Given that they're the only outlet blaming the Native American, then yes, it probably does mean that they're wrong.

[lapsedhibee]

Given that they're the only outlet blaming the Native American, then yes, it probably does mean that they're wrong.

Telegraph reporting the student's view fairly sympathetically

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/21/teenager-maga-hat-seen-aggressive-encounter-native-american/

[NAE NOOKIE]

Now hearing that some of the affected workers like customs workers and secret service agents are being compelled by the government to continue working, even though they still aren't being paid and wont be until this mess is sorted out.

I know in this country the Tories have made noises in the past about stopping the NHS and Fire service from striking and would love to do it. As I understand the police are in that situation. But I couldn't imagine a scenario where even a right wing Tory government would force folk to work without pay …. who would have thought the folk in charge of the land of the free would be the ones acting like Dickensian mill owners.

[Smartie]

Now hearing that some of the affected workers like customs workers and secret service agents are being compelled by the government to continue working, even though they still aren't being paid and wont be until this mess is sorted out.

I know in this country the Tories have made noises in the past about stopping the NHS and Fire service from striking and would love to do it. As I understand the police are in that situation. But I couldn't imagine a scenario where even a right wing Tory government would force folk to work without pay …. who would have thought the folk in charge of the land of the free would be the ones acting like Dickensian mill owners.

A good few saw this happening as soon as it became clear Trump was going to be president.

Expect full on "Hunger Games" stuff by the end of his tenure.