Referees joining the statement league

[Eaststandee]

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[Callum_62]

Cant argue that death threats are anything but repulsive

Cant argue that the standard of our officials is appalling and their perceived integrity is shot to bits

Which, interestingly is exactly what happened the last time the went on strike


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[ScottB]

Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

[SideBurns]

Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

It's not the solution to wilful ignorance; I can't believe Beaton witnessed all those incidents involving Morelos and didn't think any of them deserved a red card - it just isn't feasible.

[Callum_62]

It's not the solution to wilful ignorance; I can't believe Beaton witnessed all those incidents involving Morelos and didn't think any of them deserved a red card - it just isn't feasible.

This

And did Bobby Madden really not see Scott “Bruce Lee” Mckennas flying kick on Eduaord of which he was retrospectively punished?




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[hibbysam]

Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Is it not time that referees were obliged to give a TV or radio interview after games to explain why they made certain decisions, at least that might give some clarity regarding their process and way of thinking. … would it not help even more if refs were just now and again willing to admit they had made a mistake, and I don't mean in their memoirs 10 years after retiring but maybe the day after the game.

But the other question regards the process of appointing referees … was there not something on here a few months ago which showed that a massively disproportionate number of grade 1 refs come through the system from in and around Glasgow, no wonder so many of them have, or at least are suspected of having, loyalties to one or other of the two arse cheeks.

If the SFA did something about the west coast referees buddy system which clearly seems to disadvantage refs from elsewhere in Scotland perhaps that would help address the neutrality question.

But the truth is that the standard of refereeing in Scotland is appalling at the moment, with the worst thing being their inconsistent decisions and failing to make decisions which are 'no brainers' but they still seem to get wrong. For example, time wasting … its becoming a bloody epidemic at Easter Road this season and yet when do you ever see anybody booked for it? …. In the Livingston game their keeper delayed taking a bye kick as he picked up his water bottle and made to have a drink from it after the ref had signaled him to restart play … this was with Hibs clearly chasing the game at that point and it was a blatant attempt to waste time … booking him for that action was so obviously appropriate it wasn't true, and yet the ref did nothing apart from to wave at him to get moving.

The other thing is not taking a second to weigh up a situation before making a decision ….. The penalty decision in the League cup final was bad enough, but worse than that was in a recent Hearts game, I cant remember who it was against, where a penalty was given against them which was probably one of the most laughable decisions I think I've ever seen and I'm a bloody Hibs fan. When its gotten so bad that I'm sympathising with sodding Hertz you know its time for refs to shape up.

Each grade 1 ref in this country makes more in a month than over half of our professional footballers do and that includes many players in the premiership .. in view of that I don't think its too much to ask that the standard reaches a far higher level than its currently at and instead of spitting the dummy when the criticism gets a bit heated perhaps they would be better served finding a way to get decisions right.

I would stress that not a single word of this post excuses the utter morons who cant separate football from real life and think its ok to mount personal attacks and make threats to refs either on line or worse in the street …. that is totally unacceptable and I hope the police get a hold of the buggers.

[Beefster]

They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

[lapsedhibee]

"Crises point"? "Bye-standers"? Even The Fat Slug manages to write literate statements. :bitchy:

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

So he’s incompetent/bias/corrupt or all of the above

[James Stephen]

Do they not get paid £1,000 per game too?

[LustForLeith]

What there not supposed to be some official website run by refs where they could post their reasons behind certain decisions but it was never used?

I’d never want to be a ref but some of the decisions they make, with no rationale behind them, are inexcusable.

[Callum_62]

Can someone please explain why morelos was allowed to commit these 3 fouls - of which beaton seen and wasn’t atleast booked - and then compare that to Kamberis first booking at Tynie, which was for persistent fouling (i believe also 3 fouls)

This is the inconsistency that ruins out game
and makes people question the actual integrity of our referees



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[SkintHibby]

Isn’t VAR or similar the obvious solution at this point?

VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

[JimBHibees]

What there not supposed to be some official website run by refs where they could post their reasons behind certain decisions but it was never used?

I’d never want to be a ref but some of the decisions they make, with no rationale behind them, are inexcusable.

They used to post explanations for decisions on the Monday after a game on the sfa website which explained why the ref hadn't sent off an old firm player or given a penalty against the old firm :greengrin.
Joking aside it was called whistleblower and personally thought it was a move in the right direction however for some reason and don't think it was ever communicated they stopped doing it. No one is saying it isn't a difficult job however the apparent notion that a top ref has to come from west central Scotland certainly doesn't help and the apparent lack of governance and responsibility when the same refs keep getting top games after making appalling game changing decisions over and over and over again e.g Collum, gives the impression it isnt as even handed as it should be imo.

[JimBHibees]

VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

That seems to be the current mantra in Scottish football however personally think the game needs it and cant afford not to have it..

[JimBHibees]

Can someone please explain why morelos was allowed to commit these 3 fouls - of which beaton seen and wasn’t atleast booked - and then compare that to Kamberis first booking at Tynie, which was for persistent fouling (i believe also 3 fouls)

This is the inconsistency that ruins out game
and makes people question the actual integrity of our referees



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Good comparison. Personally think Flo is one of these players refs give nothing to and are very quick to punish for some reason.

[JimBHibees]

They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

Couldn't agree more. The current compliance process seems farcical and inconsistent and should be changed immediately. A good thing imo is that we currently have a number of managers in the league who are not scared to call out refs which I think is healthy within reason.

[Libby Hibby]

Good comparison. Personally think Flo is one of these players refs give nothing to and are very quick to punish for some reason.

Same rule applies to Bartley.

They both play in green. It’s as simple as that.

[MyJo]

VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

There are already cameras at every premiership game in order to provide highlights to BBC and BT Sport.

Every week Sportscene manage to analyse events and decisions within matches using the footage available, the only thing needed is making this same footage accessible to the referee during the match.

[bingo70]

Good comparison. Personally think Flo is one of these players refs give nothing to and are very quick to punish for some reason.

On the flip side, one of the problems with VAR could be that they may need to start treating all players equally. Currently Berra, Shinnie and Brown play a big role in refereeing games they are involved in and all three get away with far more than any normal player, will they be consulted in the VAR process?

On a more serious note, there surely has to be a middle ground from the VAR we saw at the World Cup compared to what we need and can afford. Surely a monitor at the side of the pitch that the 4th official could review replays on immediately could offer some assistance to the referee.

I hate the phrase already but ‘VAR lite’ surely must be comething that can be considered?!

[Elephant Stone]

Strike incoming?

Permanent hopefully.

[theonlywayisup]

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I'd be interested in seeing and comparing the Celtic Board statement with that of The Rangers immediately after we beat them 1-2 at Ibrox in which they were highly critical of the referee.

I would think that the The Rangers statement was more critical of the referee. Did Prospect put out a statement then. Maybe it's the death threats that is different this time.

I'm actually embarrassed for Scottish Football that a referee and now I'm assuming his Union could watch the three incidents and say that all is ok. Another example of Scottish football being corrupt to the core.

[Fratelli]

Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

Sorry, have to disagree as to how this would have played out had VAR been available.

In this particular instance, yes Beaton allegedly said that he did see all 3 incidents and of course this fits with the narrative of not punishing Morelos retrospectively which will be supported by the Establishment.

However, I simply don’t accept that had Beaton been called to the touch-line on 3 separate occasions to review the incidents that he would have still taken no action.

The current system makes it easy for him to take the easy option and say ‘I saw the incidents but they didn’t warrant any further action’. And make no mistake, all referees know that they can hide behind this...

[cammy1969]

Putting was it a red card to one side for a moment what beggars belief to me was the ref didn’t even give the player a talking to and warn him about his behaviour.


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[theonlywayisup]

Putting was it a red card to one side for a moment what beggars belief to me was the ref didn’t even give the player a talking to and warn him about his behaviour.


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Exactly my thoughts on this as well. If he really did see the incidents then why no talking to the player. Beaton is a cheat.

[Sir David Gray]

They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

Correct.

I'll also add that if Beaton did see all 3 incidents involving Morelos and felt that not even one of them was worthy of a red card then that opens up a whole lot of other issues regarding his integrity and fitness to referee professional football matches.

I would take his statement to the tribunal as an admission that he requires further training and demote him until he undertakes further training and assessments.

[we are hibs]

Same rule applies to Bartley.

They both play in green. It’s as simple as that.

Remember Bartley was sent off about 3 times before Christmas and I'm sure at least 2 of them were overturned our last season in the championship.


Maybe the referees should be made to state which team they support so they aren't allowed to referee games involving those clubs? Or maybe deep down the SFA know the majority of them are Celtic or rangers fans so it will never happen.

[neil7908]

VAR is definitely the way forward but it won't fix the underlying bias displayed by referees in our game.

There is also so much inconsistency and a failure to explain why certain decisions are made.

Handball is the one that gets me the most. I've been watching football for 25 years and still don't understand why some are given, some aren't and when a card is given or not. I've read the official rules on it and they just don't seem to translate into the reality of decisions game to game. For instance, how did the Hearts guy (think it was Harring?) not yet booked in the derby? That was a text book case of hand ball and no booking.

There are other rules though where they seem to be deliberately vague to the point that person A would watch multiple replays and say one thing and person B would say the opposite. What constitutes persistent fouling? Some might say 3-4 but we've had cases of opposition players at ER committing 5-6 and not getting carded.

What about interfering in play around offsides? How do you define interfering?

VAR will ensure the worst calls are caught out and fixed but there must be more transparency in why certain decisions are made and as other posters have said, more openness about mistakes and explaining why they were made.

The current view of refs seems to they are semi-Godlike figures who can't be questioned or admit any failure. That has to end.

[calumhibee1]

I'll also add that if Beaton did see all 3 incidents involving Morelos and felt that not even one of them was worthy of a red card then that opens up a whole lot of other issues regarding his integrity and fitness to referee professional football matches.

Or a yellow card... or even a talking to. He’s a cheat, it’s that simple.

[One Day]

Exactly my thoughts on this as well. If he really did see the incidents then why no talking to the player. Beaton is a cheat.

This

[calumhibee1]

Remember Bartley was sent off about 3 times before Christmas and I'm sure at least 2 of them were overturned our last season in the championship.


Maybe the referees should be made to state which team they support so they aren't allowed to referee games involving those clubs? Or maybe deep down the SFA know the majority of them are Celtic or rangers fans so it will never happen.

Or the period a few years ago when we went derby after derby with Hearts getting people retrospectively sent off in derbies with us gaining no advantage whatsoever because they ‘missed’ the incident during the game every time.

[Callum_62]

Or the period a few years ago when we went derby after derby with Hearts getting people retrospectively sent off in derbies with us gaining no advantage whatsoever because they ‘missed’ the incident during the game every time.

Ive always thought retrospective should mean they miss the next match against the team they were playing when they should have been sent off


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[neil7908]

Remember Bartley was sent off about 3 times before Christmas and I'm sure at least 2 of them were overturned our last season in the championship.


Maybe the referees should be made to state which team they support so they aren't allowed to referee games involving those clubs? Or maybe deep down the SFA know the majority of them are Celtic or rangers fans so it will never happen.

Your second paragraph is a great idea. Judges have to recuse themselves from any cases where there might be a conflict of interest. I refuse to believe anyone with enough of an interest in football to become a ref doesn't support a team.

They should have to declare that publicly and be banned from officiating any game directly involving that team, or one that might have a massive impact on their league position.

Refs are ordinary people who don't deserve a lot of the abuse they get. Bur that works both ways. They are getting paid a fair chunk of cash and should be much more accountable for their actions and open about why they have made certain decisions.

[Ringothedog]

Remember Bartley was sent off about 3 times before Christmas and I'm sure at least 2 of them were overturned our last season in the championship.


Maybe the referees should be made to state which team they support so they aren't allowed to referee games involving those clubs? Or maybe deep down the SFA know the majority of them are Celtic or rangers fans so it will never happen.

If referees had to give a club affiliation, you will be stunned by how many would support Dumbarton, Albion Rovers,Annan etc

[Diclonius]

If referees had to give a club affiliation, you will be stunned by how many would support Dumbarton, Albion Rovers,Annan etc

Yup. Even if they aren't going to be biased, a lot of them would put their "wee team" so they wouldn't miss out on big games or the OF derby. I'd be in half a mind to put Arbroath if prompted.

I suppose the SFA could request to have your allegiance verified by 2/3 impartial acquaintances.

[jgl07]

VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

I thought that Hearts were going to pay for it?

[Eyrie]

What there not supposed to be some official website run by refs where they could post their reasons behind certain decisions but it was never used?

I’d never want to be a ref but some of the decisions they make, with no rationale behind them, are inexcusable.
Agreed. If a referee is able to make a decision, he is able to explain that decision in a statement.


VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.
The true cost to the Scottish game would be the number of points that the Ugly Sisters would no longer get through dodgy penalties and players not being banned. I think most of us would willingly pay that price.


Yup. Even if they aren't going to be biased, a lot of them would put their "wee team" so they wouldn't miss out on big games or the OF derby. I'd be in half a mind to put Arbroath if prompted.

I suppose the SFA could request to have your allegiance verified by 2/3 impartial acquaintances.
It would be like job references - the referees would name people who they knew would give a supportive answer.

[weecounty hibby]

I look forward to the statement that says. " after further review of the incidents in question, the Referees Association have decided to downgrade John Beaton as the decisions he made on that day were incorrect. Further more he still continues to assert that the decisions that day did not merit a card of any colour so he will not be officiating at any further top class matches this season. He will have to undergo additional training and assessment before he will be considered for any future matches"

Any chance of that?

[Weststandwanab]

Yup. Even if they aren't going to be biased, a lot of them would put their "wee team" so they wouldn't miss out on big games or the OF derby. I'd be in half a mind to put Arbroath if prompted.

I suppose the SFA could request to have your allegiance verified by 2/3 impartial acquaintances.

Otherwise known as doing a "Chick" !

[Keith_M]

Totally agree that they need to dump the ruling whereby if a referee said he saw the incident, it can't then be retroactively dealt with.

It's quite clear that the judgement of the refs in many incidents is questionable, to say the least. An independent panel should be allowed to assess incidents after the event and take whatever action is necessary.

It should then be the case that if a Ref has had a certain number of calls overturned, in the short term he should be given a private warning and, if it persists, it should affect his Referee Grading.

I also think that if Referees are seen socializing with questionable groups of people that may lead to accusations of impartiality (e.g. in Loyalist or Republican bars), they should be told in no uncertain terms to stop doing so or their careers are at stake.


Finally, the concentration of Grade A Refs in the Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Ayrshire regions is utterly ridiculous.

[The Green Goblin]

Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

Knowing VAR was running might put pressure on him to act? It shouldn’t be necessary, I know.

[jgl07]

Totally agree that they need to dump the ruling whereby if a referee said he saw the incident, it can't then be retroactively dealt with.

It's quite clear that the judgement of the refs in many incidents is questionable, to say the least. An independent panel should be allowed to assess incidents after the event and take whatever action is necessary.

It should then be the case that if a Ref has had a certain number of calls overturned, in the short term he should be given a private warning and, if it persists, it should affect his Referee Grading.

I also think that if Referees are seen socializing with questionable groups of people that may lead to accusations of impartiality (e.g. in Loyalist or Republican bars), they should be told in no uncertain terms to stop doing so or their careers are at stake.


Finally, the concentration of Grade A Refs in the Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Ayrshire regions is utterly ridiculous.
That’s where half the population of Scotland lives.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Ive always thought retrospective should mean they miss the next match against the team they were playing when they should have been sent off


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I've been going on about that for years.

[calumhibee1]

That’s where half the population of Scotland lives.

But nearly the full population of pro referees.

[Keith_M]

That’s where half the population of Scotland lives.


But almost all our Grade A Refs.


Did you know that there was a gap of one hundred years between Scottish Cup Finals that had an Edinburgh Referee?

[Salisbury Hibby]

Appalling grammar and spelling. I'd be surprised if this is genuine. Where was this obtained?

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[Fratelli]

Apologies if this clip has been posted elsewhere but this incident just demonstrates how long Beaton has been cheating clubs that play against Ibrox based teams.

The goalie jumps up mid-way the 6 yard box but ends up over the goal-line and neither Beaton nor the near-side linesman deemed it a foul.

Of course Rangers were losing 1.0 heading into the latter stages of the game.

Beaton isn’t incompetent, he is a blatant cheat but VAR will make it more difficult for these types of officials to influence games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/scotland/26509298

[neil7908]

Apologies if this clip has been posted elsewhere but this incident just demonstrates how long Beaton has been cheating clubs that play against Ibrox based teams.

The goalie jumps up mid-way the 6 yard box but ends up over the goal-line and neither Beaton nor the near-side linesman deemed it a foul.

Of course Rangers were losing 1.0 heading into the latter stages of the game.

Beaton isn’t incompetent, he is a blatant cheat but VAR will make it more difficult for these types of officials to influence games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/scotland/26509298

What a joke.

[cabbageandribs1875]

even moshni is pointing to his own eyes indicating the referee is a blind ****






:)

[cleanyman]

But almost all our Grade A Refs.


Did you know that there was a gap of one hundred years between Scottish Cup Finals that had an Edinburgh Referee?

A large proportion of our assistants are from the East

[J-C]

Don't agree with the numpties threatening anyone but all the criticism they've had recently they must surely take responsibility for their performances over the past few years. Some of these performances have been truly abysmal and understandably many people see them as corrupt, particularly the clear hand ball missed by Muir against Falkirk in the 1st play off game.

[Just Jimmy]

VAR takes forever to make a decision and IMO all it does is give a ref even more excuse to bottle big decisions then listen to someone else tell him in his ear what should happen.

I was at UTD v Reading yesterday. 5 mins to decide to award a penalty, that I said to my mates in real time that Fred was offside and that Mata had been fouled. Yet the ref initially gave the offside, then spoke to the linesman, then stood for five minutes listening to his ear piece.

he got it right in the end; but the point is why didn't he get it right without the video, it was obvious.

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[overdrive]

Agreed. If a referee is able to make a decision, he is able to explain that decision in a statement.


The true cost to the Scottish game would be the number of points that the Ugly Sisters would no longer get through dodgy penalties and players not being banned. I think most of us would willingly pay that price.


It would be like job references - the referees would name people who they knew would give a supportive answer.

I don’t think the SFA would even care. I used to know a current top flight official but back when he was refereeing junior and senior reserve-equivalent matches. He said he declared to the SFA that he had shares in a club in the SPL (as it was at the time) and all he had to do was transfer them over to his wife which isn’t really removing the financial conflict of interest at all. A quick check online of the games he’s been involved in over the last couple seasons show up a disproportionate number of games involving that team he had shares in (edit: no idea if his wife or other family member have since disposed of the shares).

[hibbysam]

Sorry, have to disagree as to how this would have played out had VAR been available.

In this particular instance, yes Beaton allegedly said that he did see all 3 incidents and of course this fits with the narrative of not punishing Morelos retrospectively which will be supported by the Establishment.

However, I simply don’t accept that had Beaton been called to the touch-line on 3 separate occasions to review the incidents that he would have still taken no action.

The current system makes it easy for him to take the easy option and say ‘I saw the incidents but they didn’t warrant any further action’. And make no mistake, all referees know that they can hide behind this...

He was standing right in front of the brown one as I said it to my mate at the time. He quite clearly seen the full scale of that and decided to ignore (i originally thought as it was so early in the game), id have to look at the other two but the Ralston one he was there very quickly so I presume he was on hand to see that incident too and chose not to penalise. The touchy feely one is a wee bit different as it was sly but I’d say it’s easier for him to say now he missed it than make a huge call during the game. At least now he has no way of affecting the game and could save himself abuse if eh just said ‘I didn’t see it’

[KerPlunk]

The following was posted on ‘another site’ recently :-
By Alan Campbell in The Herald:*https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/16114571.Investigation__Referees_blow_the_whistle_ on_unrest/
IT all got too much for Neil Lennon at Rugby Park last month when a penalty awarded to*Kilmarnock*by referee Kevin Clancy incensed the Hibernian manager and sparked a confrontation with the official.
But while nobody, not even Lennon himself, would have been surprised by his subsequent five-match Scottish FA touchline ban (two of them suspended), what is astonishing is that among the biggest critics of the refereeing system in*Scotland*are many of the officials themselves.
Lennon received the ban for misconduct, but was not further punished for his post-match comments to journalists when he laid into Clancy in particular, and Scottish refereeing standards in general. “Mickey Mouse stuff,” Lennon said contemptuously.
A fortnight earlier Tommy Wright, the*St Johnstonemanager, was more measured when complaining about the performance of another referee, Andrew Dallas, following his dismissal of David Wotherspoon in a league game at Tynecastle.
What linked the two managers’ remarks was that both claimed it was a waste of time phoning the SFA’s head of refereeing operations, John Fleming, on a Monday to complain about his top officials.
“I have probably spoken to John Fleming about Andrew Dallas more than any referee. Nothing seems to change,” Wright said.
Lennon was in agreement. “You ring John Fleming on a Monday and you get the same ‘yeah, yeah’. You go round in circles, and I’ve lost a lot of faith in it to tell you the truth,” he said.
It seems that view is shared in refereeing circles. Clancy and Dallas are regarded by many of their peers as being among a select few in Scotland who wear “bullet-proof vests”. That is because they are Fifa-list referees – the other five in this category being John Beaton, Willie Collum, Bobby Madden, Don Robertson and Nick Walsh.
According to recently- retired referees the Sunday Herald has spoken to, the seven Fifa officials are allocated*Premiership*matches regardless of how many mistakes they are accused of making.
Meanwhile, other Category 1 referees find themselves demoted to the lower leagues if, and when, they make similar errors, losing not only status but the much higher financial payments available in the top league.
Another allegation is that geographical bias is also a factor, according to James Bee, a former Category 2 referee who retired in 2014 and is secretary of the Prospect professional trade union branch of Scottish referees.
“This isn’t just about Fifa referees – it goes wider than that,” said Bee, pictured bottom left. “There are others at Category 1 level who are treated differently [from their colleagues] as well. There appears to be a geographical bias favouring referees from three central belt associations to the detriment of the others.”
Bee points out that of the seven current Fifa referees, three belong to the*Glasgow*association, with Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire each having two. He further states that the last*Edinburgh*Fifa referee was Calum Murray, who came off the list in 2013. The last Ayrshire referee was in 2007, in Fife it was 2000, and*Aberdeen*1999.
“There’s nothing wrong with every country appointing who they believe to be the seven top referees to the Fifa category,” Bee continued. “What has been questioned is how these decisions are arrived at – and what the process is behind them.
“The first Scottish Cup final was in 1873 – and it was 107 years before an Edinburgh referee was appointed to take charge. It is now 145 years since that first final and there has been a total of three. I think that would be reflected in the other associations outwith Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire.”
REMARKABLY, some referees in recent years have been put on the Fifa list without having ever taken charge of a Premiership match.
“The Fifa rules state that a referee can’t be appointed to the list younger than 28,” Bee explained. “The SFA’s referee operations department and referee committee will look at the guys coming up to that age and would hope to identify referees who are good enough.
“That never used to be the case, but the policy for a few years now is the younger the better. As somebody once said to me, if they’re targeting younger guys that’s great – but why does it always seem to be younger guys from the same three associations? Do people from these three areas have a genetic predisposition for refereeing?”
One high-profile former referee, speaking on the guarantee of anonymity, said: “You can pick somebody to grow into a position, but you can’t buy experience. You can pass a fitness test, or a laws of the game examination – but it’s the practical nature and man management of dealing with 22 players and two sets of coaching staff that’s going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not, over time, you’re good enough to do the job.
“To be able to look at somebody [for the Fifa list] without having had that experience just beggars belief.”
THE Scottish Senior Football Referees Association (SSFRA) was formed in 2005 as a vehicle for referees to raise issues, both within the referee department and the SFA. Bee is a former chairman, but, like other ex-referees spoken to, believes it now isn’t fit for purpose.
The current chairman is Lennon’s nemesis Clancy, and it is understood about 50 match officials are members. Prospect have some 65 members, including several Premiership officials, yet the SFA refuse to deal with the union – in contrast with the Football Association in England.
Brian Colvin retired at the end of 2015 and says it is impossible for the SSFRA to properly represent his former colleagues when they feel they need to raise issues.
“The fact that active referees run the SSFRA is fundamentally flawed,” Colvin said. “When I was refereeing at the top level, I would have been very uncomfortable taking a serious matter – such as an issue with appointments – to the SSFRA. It’s easy to argue that it doesn’t have the skill set, or indeed the freedom, to act in the collective best interests of referees.
“I would have felt the opposite approaching experts within Prospect, knowing they would undoubtedly be able to give me sound, confidential and professional advice – as well as taking issues forward to the SFA, should it be required, without any risks or concerns. I didn’t feel this was the case with the current SSFRA model.”
THAT many referees do have concerns was laid bare in a survey conducted by Prospect among 50 of their members. Asked if they believed the match appointments and grading of referees was fair and transparent, a staggering 82 per cent replied they did not.
When asked if they felt the SFA was concerned with their well-being and development, the referees’ replies were also in the negative – 62 per cent said they felt the governing body wasn’t concerned. The survey was conducted 15 months ago, but this is the first time the results have been published and the anecdotal evidence is that the perceived problems very much remain.
The former referee quoted earlier who asked not to be named said: “There was a feeling of ‘them and us’ among the 30 or so Category 1 referees when I was there. Clearly the referees who have the Fifa badge have to be refereeing the top games domestically, but you would want everything to be fair and transparent. Those are two key concepts that I don’t think were ever achieved.
“The 82 per cent negative response [to the survey question on match appointments and the grading of referees being fair and transparent] is extremely high. You would expect there to be a degree of disgruntlement but that’s astronomic. As you’re getting promoted through the ranks you’re flavour of the month, or you must be at some stage to get to Category 1, but what happened within that category was extremely demotivating.
“It just wasn’t fair. You would see high-profile errors being made by some referees without the same repercussions as there were for others.”
THE former official believes that a small number of referee match observers, former referees who grade performances from the stands, contribute hugely to the alleged problems of geographical bias and favouritism.
“The grading clearly had an effect on what fixtures you got over time,” he said. “The vast majority of observers I found to be helpful and trustworthy, but there was a small group who I would say were extremely biased towards their own referee associations.
“Some of their views were so way off the mark from any other feedback you got, and consistently so over a number of years, that what they wrote wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. You just wouldn’t read their reports.
“The vast majority of us are accustomed in our day jobs to being held accountable and appraised. It’s a very similar system in refereeing, but when it’s as unfair in certain quarters as it is, it just stinks.”
THE SFA RESPONSE
A Scottish FA spokesperson said: “The Scottish FA is committed to the development and well-being of match officials – with a recruitment programme that stretches across the country.
“We appreciate the contribution from those across all levels of the domestic game and have an open-door policy to listen to any concerns individuals may have.”
[/quote]

[SChibs]

I don't understand this referee saw the incident rule. I'm sure a Hamilton player was yellow carded in a game this season but was also given a 2 match ban a few days after the game for the challenge after it was reviewed. I think it was Darian MacKinnon.

It's as if there's one rule for some clubs and another rule for others

[The Harp Awakes]

The guys issuing threats are lowlife and actually deflect attention away from the real problem; incompetent and biased refereeing/governing authorities.

Beaton has previous for this stuff, particularly at Ibrox. So why was he allowed to ref a Rangers v Celtic game at Ibrox? That decision goes deeper than Beaton being a biased ref as it calls into question the integrity of the football authorities.

[Ozyhibby]

New Rangers have released about three statements this season criticising referees and we hear nothing. Celtic release one statement and suddenly the SFA, the refs themselves and the media hit back hard.
Interesting.


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[where'stheslope]

VAR is definitely the way forward but it won't fix the underlying bias displayed by referees in our game.

There is also so much inconsistency and a failure to explain why certain decisions are made.

Handball is the one that gets me the most. I've been watching football for 25 years and still don't understand why some are given, some aren't and when a card is given or not. I've read the official rules on it and they just don't seem to translate into the reality of decisions game to game. For instance, how did the Hearts guy (think it was Harring?) not yet booked in the derby? That was a text book case of hand ball and no booking.

There are other rules though where they seem to be deliberately vague to the point that person A would watch multiple replays and say one thing and person B would say the opposite. What constitutes persistent fouling? Some might say 3-4 but we've had cases of opposition players at ER committing 5-6 and not getting carded.

What about interfering in play around offsides? How do you define interfering?

VAR will ensure the worst calls are caught out and fixed but there must be more transparency in why certain decisions are made and as other posters have said, more openness about mistakes and explaining why they were made.

The current view of refs seems to they are semi-Godlike figures who can't be questioned or admit any failure. That has to end.
I take it you never seen the incident when Miller was at Rangers playing the Yams, it was a diagonal crossfield ball going over his head out of play.
He jumped up and caught it then threw it to the ground, the referee just stood and laughed and gave a thrown in, even although the ball never went out of play?

Every player on the park is interfering with play, either by distracting the opposition or trying to gain advantage, the rule is a joke!!!

My bugbear nowadays is obstruction, players walking the ball out of play and obstructing the other player from playing the ball when having no intention of playing it himself????

[Jones28]

VAR takes forever to make a decision and IMO all it does is give a ref even more excuse to bottle big decisions then listen to someone else tell him in his ear what should happen.

I was at UTD v Reading yesterday. 5 mins to decide to award a penalty, that I said to my mates in real time that Fred was offside and that Mata had been fouled. Yet the ref initially gave the offside, then spoke to the linesman, then stood for five minutes listening to his ear piece.

he got it right in the end; but the point is why didn't he get it right without the video, it was obvious.

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Surely as long as the decision is right what does it matter? That's the whole point of the system.

[Just Jimmy]

Surely as long as the decision is right what does it matter? That's the whole point of the system.referees should be getting simple decisions correct. VAR would be fine if it was for difficult or unclear decisions.

we shouldn't be asking for it to cut referee corruption. fact is if corruption exists then they'll find a way even with VAR.

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[Danderhall Hibs]

Surely as long as the decision is right what does it matter? That's the whole point of the system.

Yip - and it was 2 or 3 minutes (BT sport said). Although I do agree that I thought he was offside and a penalty in first view but I had a different angle to the ref.

[Danderhall Hibs]

referees should be getting simple decisions correct. VAR would be fine if it was for difficult or unclear decisions.

we shouldn't be asking for it to cut referee corruption. fact is if corruption exists then they'll find a way even with VAR.

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They could but there’d be more than 1 person involved in the “corruption” so harder to make work.

[Lago]

:top marks
They need to get rid of the ‘if they saw it, nothing can be done’ rule. It’s nonsense. If the referee makes a decision that a panel / the vast majority of right-thinking people consider to be wrong, it should be dealt with.

[Beefster]

New Rangers have released about three statements this season criticising referees and we hear nothing. Celtic release one statement and suddenly the SFA, the refs themselves and the media hit back hard.
Interesting.

Isn’t the reaction more about the subsequent threats to Beaton?

[Radium]

There are 3 different systems.

Goal line technology - simple but cost the EPL about £250k per ground to install with annual fees of £85k. Not likely.

VAR - based on SPFL estimates about £5k per match. About £100k per club

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/45567928

Post Match review - should be easy but has been fubar. Use it to identify cheating and serious foul play and take the match referee out of it as others have suggested.





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[HappyAsHellas]

The threats to Beaton will be used as a deflection tactic when the incredible decisions taken by our top refs need to be seriously looked at. Beaton is a grade A hun, he should never be allowed anywhere near a Rangers game.

[Pretty Boy]

Too much is done behind closed and locked doors and lends itself to cynicism at best, conspiracy theory at worst.

Give the refs the option to talk, publish full details (sensitive info excepted) from appeals, retrospective decision making and so on. The archaic system causes a lot of the problems.

[Just Jimmy]

Yip - and it was 2 or 3 minutes (BT sport said). Although I do agree that I thought he was offside and a penalty in first view but I had a different angle to the ref.there was 5 mins added on at end of first half which I why I said 5 minutes. there wasn't much else happened so I guessed at that.

The refs up here don't appoint themselves, they also don't all decide on coming from one area of the country or what games they referee etc. in that sense there's already plenty complicit.

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[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Sack them all and bring back the Maltese refs

[HoboHarry]

Sack them all and bring back the Maltese refs
Not sure if you are being serious or not but it was a one off thing - who is going to pay for the travelling expenses on a weekly basis? And what happens when one of them makes an error seen on TV?

[marinello59]

Sack them all and bring back the Maltese refs

The Maltese refs only took on one game and were met with a wave of goodwill from supporters. That wouldn’t last over the course of a season, they would be getting the same same abuse we hand out to Scottish refs after just a few games.

[WhileTheChief..]

Just publish the refs match report online.

Folk can then agree or disagree to their hearts content but at least it would be transparent.

Interviewing the refs directly after the match would be painful. Who decides what to ask him for starters!

The conspiracy theories would then be that the reporter avoided the difficult questions etc etc. It would also give the media way too much power.

[cleanyman]

After 5 years away I'm going back to referee school next week

Cannae wait to add to the carnage

[brianmc]

As a slight departure from the OP a thing that's always bothered me is this: The number of players, coaches and managers who say during interviews (usually in reference to a perceived injustice the referee has carried out) - I'm not sure what the rules are regarding that incident but....

WHY??
How can this be allowed? These guys (if they're managers) have generally been involved in football on a daily basis for over 30 years FFS! And they happily rant about stuff that's happened, decisions that went against them - AND why those decisions were hopelessly wrong - yet in the next breath admit that they don't know the rules....

Dearie, dearie me.

Part of the BASIC coaching qualification, not yer fancy UEFA Pro blahdy blah license, but the very first qualification every coach (and I'd love to include players) should be made to obtain is the Referee Qualification.

This of course wouldn't stop referee corruption but **** me! I widnae half stop a very, very high percentage of the dross we see, hear and read.

Is there any other sport where the competitors, coaches and management happily admit to not knowing what the rules are?

And as for the fans........😭

Three final points to finish with.

1 - They're LAWS of the game not rules 😉
2 - A ten second Google search will take you to the FIFA website where said Laws can be read/downloaded.
3 - FIFA update the Laws every year so it's worth checking during the summer break what's been changed. This helps stop you making a bellend of yourself abusing the ref first game of pre-season.

Edit: No I'm not a ref and/or ever have been!

[HoboHarry]

As a slight departure from the OP a thing that's always bothered me is this: The number of players, coaches and managers who say during interviews (usually in reference to a perceived injustice the referee has carried out) - I'm not sure what the rules are regarding that incident but....

WHY??
How can this be allowed? These guys (if they're managers) have generally been involved in football on a daily basis for over 30 years FFS! And they happily rant about stuff that's happened, decisions that went against them - AND why those decisions were hopelessly wrong - yet in the next breath admit that they don't know the rules....

Dearie, dearie me.

Part of the BASIC coaching qualification, not yer fancy UEFA Pro blahdy blah license, but the very first qualification every coach (and I'd love to include players) should be made to obtain is the Referee Qualification.

This of course wouldn't stop referee corruption but **** me! I widnae half stop a very, very high percentage of the dross we see, hear and read.

Is there any other sport where the competitors, coaches and management happily admit to not knowing what the rules are?

And as for the fans........😭

Three final points to finish with.

1 - They're LAWS of the game not rules 😉
2 - A ten second Google search will take you to the FIFA website where said Laws can be read/downloaded.
3 - FIFA update the Laws every year so it's worth checking during the summer break what's been changed. This helps stop you making a bellend of yourself abusing the ref first game of pre-season.

Edit: No I'm not a ref and/or ever have been!

I'd be happy of some of the bell end ex-player co-commentators would research the laws instead of telling us there was contact so its a penalty.

[where'stheslope]

As a slight departure from the OP a thing that's always bothered me is this: The number of players, coaches and managers who say during interviews (usually in reference to a perceived injustice the referee has carried out) - I'm not sure what the rules are regarding that incident but....

WHY??
How can this be allowed? These guys (if they're managers) have generally been involved in football on a daily basis for over 30 years FFS! And they happily rant about stuff that's happened, decisions that went against them - AND why those decisions were hopelessly wrong - yet in the next breath admit that they don't know the rules....

Dearie, dearie me.

Part of the BASIC coaching qualification, not yer fancy UEFA Pro blahdy blah license, but the very first qualification every coach (and I'd love to include players) should be made to obtain is the Referee Qualification.

This of course wouldn't stop referee corruption but **** me! I widnae half stop a very, very high percentage of the dross we see, hear and read.

Is there any other sport where the competitors, coaches and management happily admit to not knowing what the rules are?

And as for the fans........😭

Three final points to finish with.

1 - They're LAWS of the game not rules 😉
2 - A ten second Google search will take you to the FIFA website where said Laws can be read/downloaded.
3 - FIFA update the Laws every year so it's worth checking during the summer break what's been changed. This helps stop you making a bellend of yourself abusing the ref first game of pre-season.

Edit: No I'm not a ref and/or ever have been!

Great having a go at everyone, but this season the SFA themselves had to ask UEFA to clarify the rules after the season had started?????
To me that is basic!!!!

[McD]

I'd be happy of some of the bell end ex-player co-commentators would research the laws instead of telling us there was contact so its a penalty.


:agree:

The same commentators who criticise the player for going down when there’s contact, then will say that another player didn’t get a foul/penalty because they stayed on their feet - which is it lads? They’re cheats if they go down under minimal contact, but it’s a shame for them if they stay on their feet?

[InchHibby]

It's not the solution to wilful ignorance; I can't believe Beaton witnessed all those incidents involving Morelos and didn't think any of them deserved a red card - it just isn't feasible.

I totally agree with this, the only feasible assumption I take from his decisions is that he was cheating.
There is no other logical answer other than that. He’s admitted he seen all three incidents and even to those who would give the benefit of the doubt rather than use the word cheat, this would even have swayed them.

[Dublin07]

At least this has increased interest in the statement league this year. After the high of 2017/18 this season has been a bore fest. Even the Rangers have been struggling this season after starting it as 1/100 favourites to romp it.