Biggest budget in history

[Hfc_Since1875]

Can we put this to bed please? See it brought up countless times... LD is quoted and as far as I am led to believe it rmeans biggest football budget overall! For example support staff, scouts and youth coaches!

The playing budget is not the biggest in history!!!

[DetroitHibs]

Can we put this to bed please? See it brought up countless times... LD is quoted and as far as I am led to believe it rmeans biggest football budget overall! For example support staff, scouts and youth coaches!

The playing budget is not the biggest in history!!!

Well the clown behind the scenes are the ones investing the budge, scouting the players, recruiting management. They have failed, P45's all round. LD included.

[Time For Heroes]

Well the clown behind the scenes are the ones investing the budge, scouting the players, recruiting management. They have failed, P45's all round. LD included.

Behave

[HoboHarry]

Well the clown behind the scenes are the ones investing the budge, scouting the players, recruiting management. They have failed, P45's all round. LD included.

Is it normal for you to post rubbish of this calibre or are you just in good form today?

[heidtheba]

I've never worked out what the best tactic would be here. You can appease and enthuse fans by declaring that the club has the biggest budget in its history...but then everyone getting contracts negotiated thinks 'oh heck yeah, I'll have a slice of that'. I call that the 'Leeds United' (circa 1998) approach. The alternative is to make out we don't have the budget, annoy the fans who are clearly supporting the club and ruin the feelgood factor which we had until recently.
Personally, I'd prefer we didn't make statements like this as I think it just increases the price of anyone we are interested in.

[TheHarpy76]

Well the clown behind the scenes are the ones investing the budge, scouting the players, recruiting management. They have failed, P45's all round. LD included.

You can’t beat a derby defeat for bringing out the drama queens.

[Pretty Boy]

I said at the time that was a daft thing to say with no qualification and I stand by that now.

Short term it was probably a decent slogan to keep ST sales ticking over. Longer term it's a big stick to beat the club with when recruitment doesn't work out (as it evidently hasn't in the last window). If we don't pick up in the 2nd half of the season it's the get out clause for those looking not to renew. 'I bought a ST last year and Hibs lied about/wasted the budget.'

[calumhibee1]

It was qualified with the fact it meant overall budget but is it really that much of a leap to suggest that if we’ve got our biggest overall budget that the playing budget is also at least pretty high? Maybe not biggest in history high but I’m sure it’ll be up there (excluding the McLeish years) if the overalll budget is the biggest in history or whatever the exact words were.

[jeffers]

To an extent I don’t think it matters that it was the biggest football budget or biggest transfer budget (I do understand the difference) that was said. Ultimately that budget goes towards the team that we put out every game and not unrealistically fuelled expectation of a far better season than we have had so far. In terms of money made from league position last season, record attendances, record season ticket sales plus transfer fees, in real terms we’ll find it very difficult to top that in coming seasons. I doubt many of us think this “biggest budget” is returning value for money.

[heidtheba]

And I suppose it's worth re-framing it. Lennon had to replace what was probably the best midfield in Scotland last year and two strikers who were both on loan. In other words, we didn't get this budget to enhance the squad, we got it to not even come close to being able to afford similarly valued replacements.

[DetroitHibs]

You can’t beat a derby defeat for bringing out the drama queens.

It's my opinion that I'd empty the lot of them behind the scenes. Definitely not the derby loss that's made me take that stance. I think we were completely mugged off at the start of the season with the lack of money spent on players.

[jeffers]

And I suppose it's worth re-framing it. Lennon had to replace what was probably the best midfield in Scotland last year and two strikers who were both on loan. In other words, we didn't get this budget to enhance the squad, we got it to not even come close to being able to afford similarly valued replacements.

People keep repeating this line about having to replace last seasons midfield and how tough that would be and while I don’t disagree with that his signings haven’t come anywhere close not only in terms of ability, but the type of players they are. Forget their technical ability all three worked hard off the ball, NONE of his signings this season do. We have a midfield of small, weak players who hide when the going gets tough. The one player brought in to provide some dig and composure sadly looks like another Shefki Kuqi or Ray Wilkins - someone who was a player at their peak but those days are long gone.

Bringing in Scott Allan would clearly be a start and someone to provide drive like SJM plus a big target man to play alongside Kamberi.

[DetroitHibs]

Aberdeen have had to replace quality players over the seasons, Killie have assembled a decent squad. We SHOULD have had quality players targeted towards the end of last season to replace Dylan and SJM. Didn't seem like we did any of that.

[Pretty Boy]

And I suppose it's worth re-framing it. Lennon had to replace what was probably the best midfield in Scotland last year and two strikers who were both on loan. In other words, we didn't get this budget to enhance the squad, we got it to not even come close to being able to afford similarly valued replacements.

I said this on the PM board last night and I understand it's an imperfect argument but....

The midfield we lost did not cost a lot of money to build, it was put together for pennies and developed into one worth millions. What it had was potential that was realised and the shrewdness of the signings of McGinn and McGeough was obvious from day one. Given the reported fees for Mallan and Horgan the midfield we fielded last night probably cost more than the one we lost. It's not the current form that particularly troubles me; it's the recognition there doesn't appear to be the potential to develop this midfield much beyond what it is currently.

Some transfers don't work out and I get that. I also get that unearthing a McGinn or McGeough every 2 years is difficult but the managers assertion that the 1st 2/3s are fine after last nights game troubles me. The midfield is 100% the problem area imo and none of the summer signings are showing anywhere near enough on a consistent basis.

[heidtheba]

I said this on the PM board last night and I understand it's an imperfect argument but....

The midfield we lost did not cost a lot of money to build, it was put together for pennies and developed into one worth millions. What it had was potential that was realised and the shrewdness of the signings of McGinn and McGeough was obvious from day one. Given the reported fees for Mallan and Horgan the midfield we fielded last night probably cost more than the one we lost. It's not the current form that particularly troubles me; it's the recognition there doesn't appear to be the potential to develop this midfield much beyond what it is currently.

Some transfers don't work out and I get that. I also get that unearthing a McGinn or McGeough every 2 years is difficult but the managers assertion that the 1st 2/3s are fine after last nights game troubles me. The midfield is 100% the problem area imo and none of the summer signings are showing anywhere near enough on a consistent basis.

True. It's also a worry that we knew we didn't have SA and anyone would know that DM and SJM were offski. The players we brought in don't seem to have been playing as 'like for like' replacements. Which of our new midfield offers us McGinn's running and constant energy? Who has Allan's creative pass? That worries me. We addressed the 'goals from midfield' issue with Mallan, whether he's achieved that or not is a slightly different argument - but you can see the thinking there. The rest? Less so.

[DetroitHibs]

We'll also never know the real reasons for not sealing the deal for the likes of Henderson and Allan. My money's on the board not loosening the purse strings. Just my opinion :wink:

[greenpaper55]

When there are teams above us with smaller budgets and crowds the quarter of our own and i'm being generous here then you must admit that the recruitment has gone seriously wrong.

[Greenworld]

We'll also never know the real reasons for not sealing the deal for the likes of Henderson and Allan. My money's on the board not loosening the purse strings. Just my opinion :wink:Rod still has his hands on the money box and it's frustrating the life out lennon.
You can identify players but what's the point when the board won't go that extra pound

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[southern hibby]

I mentioned on another thread about our basic mistakes that constantly happen this and up to a point last season too that for me haven’t been addressed.

Passing to wingers or wing backs seems to be behind the player and seldom in front for them to run on to. This for me is my biggest bug bare as it allows teams time to reorganise.

Do players actually talk to one another as in man on, time or turn etc? Number of times a player has time to bring the ball down in midfield yet we header it. Back to goal yet time to turn and run at a team and it’s passed backwards.

Throw ins have been absolutely beyond a joke for more than just this season.

So for me the question has to be WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY DO IN TRAINING when we struggle as far as I can see to get the basics right?

I’m not after anyone sacked or a new manager in but I find it annoying week in week out it’s the same mistakes over and over again.

GGTTH

[mcfly]

It has to be the biggest budget
We’ve ever had because the season tickets and the crowds are the biggest we’ve had in years.

Has it been wisely spent ? Are you being entertained? Well we shall have to wait till end of the season.

Hopefully the winter break the injured players come back healthy and fit along with the 3-4 quality signings that we need and that the fans deserve.

Bottom 6 is unnacceptable with this fan base and budget
in this league. It’s over to the board to get the players in we desperately need

[oldbutdim]

We'll also never know the real reasons for not sealing the deal for the likes of Henderson and Allan. My money's on the board not loosening the purse strings. Just my opinion :wink:

Liam said in an interview that he had the option of returning to Hibs but the lure of playing in Italy was the decisive factor.

[Eyrie]

Can we put this to bed please? See it brought up countless times... LD is quoted and as far as I am led to believe it rmeans biggest football budget overall! For example support staff, scouts and youth coaches!

The playing budget is not the biggest in history!!!

Counter point - all of that should still result in a better squad.

More money spent on scouts should mean finding better players at bargain prices, more money spent on support staff should mean making the players better, more money spent on management should mean better decision making and more money in the overall budget should mean more money available for wages.

At this stage in the season we have a large enough sample size to question whether the largest budget has been spent wisely.

[wookie70]

Rod still has his hands on the money box and it's frustrating the life out lennon.
You can identify players but what's the point when the board won't go that extra pound

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

How are Killi, Livi and St J managing then. They are spending considerably less but are all doing better than us. There are five clubs above us who are spending less or comparable amounts to us. Spending your way out of a crisis is a dangerous game.

To me our woeful form is as much about players knowing their role and buying into a plan as it is about the quality of the players. We bought lightweight tidy midfielders and an ageing, experienced anchorman. What was the plan with the personnel brought in. It is difficult to work out from a supporters point of view as the players dictate we will be poor out of possession and not have huge box to box potential when we have the ball as only Hyndman gets in and around the forwards. The signings say that we are lightweight and lack midfield runners by design so what was the plan.

It also can't be easy for players when the shape of the team and the players on the pitch change quite dramatically from game to game. We also see the formation changed during the game most weeks. We may have a plan but it isn't apparent when you watch the team. It looks fairly similar to the plan Butcher had at times with players not taking responsibility and many hiding or launching the ball as soon as they got it. Mind you the words coming from the manager also mirror those that came from Butcher. Lennon's comments last night that we were fine in the first 2/3rds of the field were baffling. The midfield have been terrible for weeks so there is an issue that needs addressing somewhere.

Part of the problem is the midfield are never breaking sweat and have stopped using that discretional effort that was so apparent in the Celtc game. Mallan in that game was a combative midfielder with energy and strength and Horgan was similar but with added grit. There was far more energy about the midfield in the early part of the season too. That suggests to me that the players are a bit lost in terms of the plan or are not liking or getting the leadership they need.

I said in an earlier thread that Bogdan looked to Lennon to come up for a last minute corner. He gestured and shouted about three times to Lennon who had his head bowed and was looking into the dugout. That was our last chance to get something from the game and instead of giving a clear instruction to our Keeper Lennon wasn't even watching the game. The big issue for me is we lack leadership and fight on the touchline and that is being mirrored on the pitch.

[mcfly]

Can always look on our position in another way and being 8th forces the board to spend and spend big in jan.

They need the fans to keep coming and to do that they need to witness better than what we’ve seen in the first half of the season.

Well here’s hoping anyway

[Ryan69]

Can we put this to bed please? See it brought up countless times... LD is quoted and as far as I am led to believe it rmeans biggest football budget overall! For example support staff, scouts and youth coaches!

The playing budget is not the biggest in history!!!

So we should realistically see improvement in alot of areas then?

I dont see any im afraid.

[greenpaper55]

From the BBC gossip page

Hibs "need robust players", said head coach Neil Lennon following the Edinburgh derby defeat. (Sky Sports) (https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11792/11594609/hibernian-need-major-overhaul-in-january-transfer-window-says-neil-lennon)

Whatever ?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Biggest budget overall, not transfer money though.

Therein lies the problem

[Billy Whizz]

Biggest budget overall, not transfer money though.

Therein lies the problem

Is it not the same thing?

[we are hibs]

From the BBC gossip page

Hibs "need robust players", said head coach Neil Lennon following the Edinburgh derby defeat. (Sky Sports) (https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11792/11594609/hibernian-need-major-overhaul-in-january-transfer-window-says-neil-lennon)

Whatever ?

Maybe he should have done it in the summer.

[danhibees1875]

Biggest budget overall, not transfer money though.

Therein lies the problem

When would we have spent more than we did in the summer?

Horgan, Mallan, Kamberi all came at a cost. I can't remember us ever spending that much before. Our wage bill will also be higher than ever as well I would imagine.

So I'd agree that we have spent our biggest playing budget ever. If it's been spent wisely is still up for debate.

[Baldy Foghorn]

When would we have spent more than we did in the summer?

Horgan, Mallan, Kamberi all came at a cost. I can't remember us ever spending that much before. Our wage bill will also be higher than ever as well I would imagine.

So I'd agree that we have spent our biggest playing budget ever. If it's been spent wisely is still up for debate.

Agree, but we kept a stash back in reserve though......

[Ryan69]

When would we have spent more than we did in the summer?

Horgan, Mallan, Kamberi all came at a cost. I can't remember us ever spending that much before. Our wage bill will also be higher than ever as well I would imagine.

So I'd agree that we have spent our biggest playing budget ever. If it's been spent wisely is still up for debate.

They would only of cost about 100k each.
Weve signed many players for more than that in recent times even.

[Greenwich_Hibby]

Whatever the budget, it wasn't spent well. I'd give current 'staff' another 2 windows to sort, after that changes in the club will need to be made.

[Allant1981]

Is it not the same thing?

No where near the same

[danhibees1875]

They would only of cost about 100k each.
Weve signed many players for more than that in recent times even.

I would have thought more around 200-250k each.


Agree, but we kept a stash back in reserve though......

Not all the budget gets spent immediately in the summer, the wage bill comes from somewhere. The players we've signed will be on a decent wage, we'll be contributing to Maclaren and Bogdan, and players such as Ambrose, Whittaker, Hanlon will be on good wages as well as the rest of the squad.


I genuinely don't think we would have actively chosen to sit with surplus money in the bank that could have been used to acquire players we had targeted and wanted.

[Bostonhibby]

Agree, but we kept a stash back in reserve though......This is where I am on the subject.

A more accurate statement might have been that with the transfer income, HSL and record season ticket sales we have record amounts of cash available but at this time we aren't spending it all on buying football players?



Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[heid the baw]

How are Killi, Livi and St J managing then. They are spending considerably less but are all doing better than us. There are five clubs above us who are spending less or comparable amounts to us. Spending your way out of a crisis is a dangerous game.

Both teams last night have had significant inuries since the start of the season. St Johnsone, livi and Killie have been lucky in that respect. Plus there is no expectation at these clubs to do anything in the league, so no-one starts wetting the bed when they lose an evenly matched game to a screamer of a goal.

[Baldy Foghorn]

This is where I am on the subject.

A more accurate statement might have been that with the transfer income, HSL and record season ticket sales we have record amounts of cash available but at this time we aren't spending it all on buying football players?



Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

Spot on

[Billy Whizz]

No where near the same

Explain. I’ve owned 2 business, and I put money aside for employees, and separate for cap ex etc
Surely we have a football budget that we use to maximise our performance on the field

[Aim Here]

They would only of cost about 100k each.
Weve signed many players for more than that in recent times even.

According to the Global Sports Salaries survey, the average salary of a Hibs player would be £103,376. The actual cost of employing them would probably be about 15% to 20% bigger than that (because of NI contributions and pension costs and admin, etc) By looking at Hibs accounts, that'll be about 2/3 of Hibs entire staff costs.

That's salary, not transfer fees. We're probably talking the same again, or multiples of that £100k for permanent signings from other teams, though that won't apply to every player.

[Allant1981]

Explain. I’ve owned 2 business, and I put money aside for employees, and separate for cap ex etc
Surely we have a football budget that we use to maximise our performance on the field

The budget was explained quite clearly by LD, it covers everything from east mains and what happens there to coaches to playing staff

[B.H.F.C]

The budget was explained quite clearly by LD, it covers everything from east mains and what happens there to coaches to playing staff

I think most appreciate that.

Problem we have, at the moment, is that not enough of it looks to be being directed towards players.

We’re shelling out a lot of money on the ‘support functions’ but we’re not really seeing the benefit of that on the pitch just now.

[Heckys Wheel]

I think most appreciate that.

Problem we have, at the moment, is that not enough of it looks to be being directed towards players.

We’re shelling out a lot of money on the ‘support functions’ but we’re not really seeing the benefit of that on the pitch just now.

Agree with that and would really like to see us put more of said budget into players wages and signing fees.

The squad staying in hotels before every game and swanning off to Dubai to catch some sun, while we’re at best, a striker short doesn’t seem to add up to me.

[Allant1981]

I think most appreciate that.

Problem we have, at the moment, is that not enough of it looks to be being directed towards players.

We’re shelling out a lot of money on the ‘support functions’ but we’re not really seeing the benefit of that on the pitch just now.

But we also need to invest for the future, the whole budget thing should never have been mentioned IMO as it just gets taken the wrong way constantly

[Billy Whizz]

I think most appreciate that.

Problem we have, at the moment, is that not enough of it looks to be being directed towards players.

We’re shelling out a lot of money on the ‘support functions’ but we’re not really seeing the benefit of that on the pitch just now.

Exactly, although some would argue that having 7 players in yesterday match squad, came through our academy at some point

[neil7908]

Counter point - all of that should still result in a better squad.

More money spent on scouts should mean finding better players at bargain prices, more money spent on support staff should mean making the players better, more money spent on management should mean better decision making and more money in the overall budget should mean more money available for wages.

At this stage in the season we have a large enough sample size to question whether the largest budget has been spent wisely.

This is a good point and more relevant imo than quibbling over biggest playing budget versus spend on the squad.

Ultimately the whole club is geared to success on the pitch. Those additional resources behind the scenes are presumably identifying players, helping coach the players or analyse past games etc.

I dont think LD was wrong to bring this up, the pressure was on the club regardless.

And you know what, that's a good thing. That's how winning teams, players and managers work. They aren't satisfied with being OK. They are relentless in their pursuit of success. That's what is said about Lenny right? That he's a winner?

That is an attitude the club should adopt and the fans should be expecting Hibs to push on. We need to capitalise on the success of the last few years or the fans will drift away. Whether right or wrong that's a simple fact.

[Connollys11]

The idiocy on this forum after a derby defeat is cringeworthy at times. Folk calling for leeann to be sacked is just utterly embarrassing. Never heard anything from the Petrie out brigade last season when we were on fire. You can just tell the ones constantly banging on about changing the board and sacking Lennon are armchair fanatics who probably haven't stood inside our stadium since the days of latapy and sauzee.

[B.H.F.C]

But we also need to invest for the future, the whole budget thing should never have been mentioned IMO as it just gets taken the wrong way constantly

Investing for the future is fine as long as we look after the here and now. If we don’t do that then then the budget will start reducing because season tickets will drop off.

[Allant1981]

Investing for the future is fine as long as we look after the here and now. If we don’t do that then then the budget will start reducing because season tickets will drop off.

We have spent money though, it just hasn't been spent very well according to some, we were never going to spend all the money we got in the summer, clubs like ours don't do that

[Scotty Leither]

Biggest budget overall, not transfer money though.

Therein lies the problem

It sounds like classic accountant-speak to me. Much in the same way as Mavrias morphed from an "international" player to " cover" for David Gray in a matter of weeks.

Corporate BS and spin.

[B.H.F.C]

We have spent money though, it just hasn't been spent very well according to some, we were never going to spend all the money we got in the summer, clubs like ours don't do that

I wasn’t expecting us to shell out a couple of million or anything.

We paid fees for three players which isn’t something we’ve done for a long time. But beyond that did we do enough?

We talk about investing for the future but a lot of those we’ve brought in probably don’t even have a future with us beyond January. The loan players, excluding Bogdan, have been an absolute failure.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If the player recruitment budget is not that big and the string pullers are spinning it, then why didn't Lennon leave in the summer?

[Scotty Leither]

If the player recruitment budget is not that big and the string pullers are spinning it, then why didn't Lennon leave in the summer?

Maybe he didn't have a job to go to? Seemed to be fairly unequivocal in his interview last night that he wanted backed in January, and referenced the transfer monies received for McGinn.

Made much the same points that those of us on here do that are labelled as "bedwetters", actually.

[sorrow sorrow]

We need to find a few mystery benefactors!hearts definitely have a bigger budget than us and that’s all down to the rumoured 3 benefactors

[Hermit Crab]

Well the clown behind the scenes are the ones investing the budge, scouting the players, recruiting management. They have failed, P45's all round. LD included.


Complete rubbish!

[blackpoolhibs]

Pretty sure our playing budget is for the whole year, not just last summer. We will be spending money next week that will come under the biggest budget for this coming season.

It is a building process, and it has to be looked at over the whole season, not just one window.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Pretty sure our playing budget is for the whole year, not just last summer. We will be spending money next week that will come under the biggest budget for this coming season.

It is a building process, and it has to be looked at over the whole season, not just one window.

You're beginning to show some surprising levels of patience G! ☺

[Scotty Leither]

We need to find a few mystery benefactors!hearts definitely have a bigger budget than us and that’s all down to the rumoured 3 benefactors

...and we've got a wealthy owner.

What if he forgives some of the debt or converts the debt to equity to around 74% and challenges HSL to buy the remaining 26℅?

Job done, no?

[Ryan69]

I would have thought more around 200-250k each.



Not all the budget gets spent immediately in the summer, the wage bill comes from somewhere. The players we've signed will be on a decent wage, we'll be contributing to Maclaren and Bogdan, and players such as Ambrose, Whittaker, Hanlon will be on good wages as well as the rest of the squad.


I genuinely don't think we would have actively chosen to sit with surplus money in the bank that could have been used to acquire players we had targeted and wanted.

Kamberi was defo 100k.
Mallan his team wanted rid of.
Horgan maybe 200k....

[H18 SFR]

The impact of losing two permanent players in the shape of McGeough and McGinn has been horrendous. I hope that we can some how ensure that never happens again.

[sadtom]

Well the clown behind the scenes are the ones investing the budge, scouting the players, recruiting management. They have failed, P45's all round. LD included.

WharraTit!

[Heckys Wheel]

The impact of losing two permanent players in the shape of McGeough and McGinn has been hu*****us. I hope that we can some how ensure that never happens again.

Hibs knew we’d be losing McGinn and pre-empted it by signing an international midfielder from Juventus to bed him in, in plenty of time.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

How are Killi, Livi and St J managing then. They are spending considerably less but are all doing better than us. There are five clubs above us who are spending less or comparable amounts to us. Spending your way out of a crisis is a dangerous game.

To me our woeful form is as much about players knowing their role and buying into a plan as it is about the quality of the players. We bought lightweight tidy midfielders and an ageing, experienced anchorman. What was the plan with the personnel brought in. It is difficult to work out from a supporters point of view as the players dictate we will be poor out of possession and not have huge box to box potential when we have the ball as only Hyndman gets in and around the forwards. The signings say that we are lightweight and lack midfield runners by design so what was the plan.

It also can't be easy for players when the shape of the team and the players on the pitch change quite dramatically from game to game. We also see the formation changed during the game most weeks. We may have a plan but it isn't apparent when you watch the team. It looks fairly similar to the plan Butcher had at times with players not taking responsibility and many hiding or launching the ball as soon as they got it. Mind you the words coming from the manager also mirror those that came from Butcher. Lennon's comments last night that we were fine in the first 2/3rds of the field were baffling. The midfield have been terrible for weeks so there is an issue that needs addressing somewhere.

Part of the problem is the midfield are never breaking sweat and have stopped using that discretional effort that was so apparent in the Celtc game. Mallan in that game was a combative midfielder with energy and strength and Horgan was similar but with added grit. There was far more energy about the midfield in the early part of the season too. That suggests to me that the players are a bit lost in terms of the plan or are not liking or getting the leadership they need.

I said in an earlier thread that Bogdan looked to Lennon to come up for a last minute corner. He gestured and shouted about three times to Lennon who had his head bowed and was looking into the dugout. That was our last chance to get something from the game and instead of giving a clear instruction to our Keeper Lennon wasn't even watching the game. The big issue for me is we lack leadership and fight on the touchline and that is being mirrored on the pitch.

Players and agents will be looking for a relative premium to come to Hibs as compared with Killi and the rest however the opportunity to put themselves into the shop window remains the same. They may even be able to say we’ll play you almost every game or how a loan club dictates.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Leeann could half her salary so we could afford another decent player and she'd still be on a very healthy sum of money.

Meanwhile, the club are spending upwards of £350k over the course of the season on hotels for every game but we don’t have the money to go out and buy a player like Scott Allan.

[Billy Whizz]

Leeann could half her salary so we could afford another decent player and she'd still be on a very healthy sum of money.

Meanwhile, the club are spending upwards of £350k over the course of the season on hotels for every game but we don’t have the money to go out and buy a player like Scott Allan.

£350k for 38 games, hardly anything like that, near £35k I’d have thought

[tamig]

£350k for 38 games, hardly anything like that, near £35k I’d have thought

Really? How many are in the party staying in the hotel based on your calcs?

[Heckys Wheel]

£350k for 38 games, hardly anything like that, near £35k I’d have thought

How much are hotels charging us for 25-30 staff?

It’s not Premier Inn’s they’re staying at mind.

[Billy Whizz]

How much are hotels charging us for 25-30 staff?

It’s not Premier Inn’s they’re staying at mind.

So you think we’re spending £350k on hotels?

[Hermit Crab]

Leeann could half her salary so we could afford another decent player and she'd still be on a very healthy sum of money.

Meanwhile, the club are spending upwards of £350k over the course of the season on hotels for every game but we don’t have the money to go out and buy a player like Scott Allan.


£350k? No chance!

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd hazard a guess at 10 rooms at @100 a night wont be far off?

[Michael]

Leeann could half her salary so we could afford another decent player and she'd still be on a very healthy sum of money.

Meanwhile, the club are spending upwards of £350k over the course of the season on hotels for every game but we don’t have the money to go out and buy a player like Scott Allan.

You could halve your salary and donate it to HSL.

[GreenOnions]

We'll also never know the real reasons for not sealing the deal for the likes of Henderson and Allan. My money's on the board not loosening the purse strings. Just my opinion :wink:

I would really like to know what happened with Liam Henderson. Did we try to sign him on a permanent deal or not? If we did - were Celtic the problem or, by the time Liam's contract was up, was it him who preferred to move abroad?

If we didn't try to sign him I'd like to know why? He may not have been a first pick every game last season but it would have been forward planning for when McGinn etc left.

I would have considered it a serious error at the time if we didn't give it our all to get Liam permanently. Looking at it now it's even more obvious

[Heckys Wheel]

So you think we’re spending £350k on hotels?

It’ll be closer to £350k than it is to £35k.

£35k is roughly £30 each to feed and sleep 30 people in a top hotel.

[matty_f]

It sounds like classic accountant-speak to me. Much in the same way as Mavrias morphed from an "international" player to " cover" for David Gray in a matter of weeks.

Corporate BS and spin.

You do realise he can be both?

[Pretty Boy]

I would really like to know what happened with Liam Henderson. Did we try to sign him on a permanent deal or not? If we did - were Celtic the problem or, by the time Liam's contract was up, was it him who preferred to move abroad?

If we didn't try to sign him I'd like to know why? He may not have been a first pick every game last season but it would have been forward planning for when McGinn etc left.

I would have considered it a serious error at the time if we didn't give it our all to get Liam permanently. Looking at it now it's even more obvious

I argued on here frequently with those who said we 'didn't need' Henderson as I thought a player of that quality would have been an excellent bit of forward planning. The idea we could pass up someone like Henderson if it was a goer was fanciful to anyone with a bit of foresight and the ability to recognise McGinn and McGeough weren't going to be here forever.

Ultimately though I don't think a deal was ever on. Initially he wanted to give Celtic another go after his loan and he did make a few appearances. Once he went to Italy we were never likely to compete at that point. I think Hibs tried but it wasn't to be.

[matty_f]

I argued on here frequently with those who said we 'didn't need' Henderson as I thought a player of that quality would have been an excellent bit of forward planning. The idea we could pass up someone like Henderson if it was a goer was fanciful to anyone with a bit of foresight and the ability to recognise McGinn and McGeough weren't going to be here forever.

Ultimately though I don't think a deal was ever on. Initially he wanted to give Celtic another go after his loan and he did make a few appearances. Once he went to Italy we were never likely to compete at that point. I think Hibs tried but it wasn't to be.

We definitely needed Henderson, he's a class player and would have been a great addition to the team. I can't reneger people saying we didn't need him, but your memory is better than mine.

You mentioned earlier that the "biggest budget" statement should have been qualified, imho it was - the full quote has been posted on here several times and explains what was meant by the statement.

[DarlingtonHibee]

It's my opinion that I'd empty the lot of them behind the scenes. Definitely not the derby loss that's made me take that stance. I think we were completely mugged off at the start of the season with the lack of money spent on players.

When are you going back to school?

[calumhibee1]

I argued on here frequently with those who said we 'didn't need' Henderson as I thought a player of that quality would have been an excellent bit of forward planning. The idea we could pass up someone like Henderson if it was a goer was fanciful to anyone with a bit of foresight and the ability to recognise McGinn and McGeough weren't going to be here forever.

Ultimately though I don't think a deal was ever on. Initially he wanted to give Celtic another go after his loan and he did make a few appearances. Once he went to Italy we were never likely to compete at that point. I think Hibs tried but it wasn't to be.

Henderson said on BT recently that returning to Hibs was an option but there wasn’t anything realistic left to achieve so he went elsewhere. So sounds like we tried but he fancied something different.

[SeanWilson]

Can we put this to bed please? See it brought up countless times... LD is quoted and as far as I am led to believe it rmeans biggest football budget overall! For example support staff, scouts and youth coaches!

The playing budget is not the biggest in history!!!Lennon is likely to be one of our highest paid managers in our history...

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[DarlingtonHibee]

Lennon is likely to be one of our highest paid managers in history...

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

And one of the best managers.

He could double his money tomorrow.

[SeanWilson]

And one of the best managers.

He could double his money tomorrow.I've no idea whether that's correct or not, however my point is he's likely to be playing his own part in the budget. Probably relatively rare that a manager makes more than most players?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[DarlingtonHibee]

Leeann and Neil are key to the current hibs feel good factor.

Yes been a sticky patch, but look at the stadium, training ground etc.

[Speedway]

Well the clown behind the scenes are the ones investing the budge, scouting the players, recruiting management. They have failed, P45's all round. LD included.

Agreed.

Then let’s put you in charge and give you non-stop abuse from before you take up the post until it hurts your family and then let’s increase the abuse.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Leeann and Neil are key to the current hibs feel good factor.

Yes been a sticky patch, but look at the stadium, training ground etc.

:confused:

[Hibees1973]

Would imagine that there are plenty of questions being asked about recruitment, etc for the last couple of months at Hibs.

I find it disappointing that neither Lennon/Parker/Dempster have admitted this. All we hear from Lennon is that he needs more players in January. Jesus, he has brought in around 12 players since July. Is he talking about replacing the players that have been wrongly recruited.

The preparations made by Hibs when we knew our midfield was going have been lamentable. To be 8th in the table behind the likes of St Johnstone, Livingston and Kilmarnock is not unusual for us. However, it is unacceptable to have fallen so far behind in such a short space of time.

Our spending power in January, given we have signed all these players so far will be limited. So, I for one, don’t expect any huge improvement for the remainder of the season.

Hope we can break into the top 6 with the financial benefits this brings (prize money and gate money against the other top 5). If we are unable to do this it our budget for next season will take a hit.

If we get into the top 6 Lennon may stay and get another transfer window in the summer. If we miss out on top six Lennon will walk.

[Scotty Leither]

You do realise he can be both?

Paraded as an "international" player - notionally half-decent, then?

Reality: Another jersey filler in a long line of duds, but hey, it tossed a bun to the gullible for a while.

Like I said, spin and smoke and mirrors.

[Scotty Leither]

If we get into the top 6 Lennon may stay and get another transfer window in the summer. If we miss out on top six Lennon will walk.

...and if we do miss out on the Top 6, and season ticket numbers fall then that'll be the fault of the fans again, and we can't spend money we've not got, and you'll need to front up more with HSL donations, and so on and so forth.

Same movie with Petrie and co down the years, but the Teflon Don remains the one constant.

[tamig]

Leeann and Neil are key to the current hibs feel good factor.

Yes been a sticky patch, but look at the stadium, training ground etc.

The feel good factor only lasts for as long as things are happening where it really matters - on the pitch. NL and Leeann need to earn their money in the next window if we’re to hang on to what’s left of the post-Cup Final feel good factor. Plenty natives getting restless already if a lot of the comments on here are any kind of measure.

[Allant1981]

Another keyboard warrior fandan, with nothing constructive to add.

Your posts have been constructive?

[tamig]

Another keyboard warrior fandan, with nothing constructive to add.

It’s no more of a fandan comment than your ridiculous post he was replying to. Say your scenario plays out and all the staff are emptied from East Mains. And Leeann too. What then? It’s an outrageous comment you made.

[DetroitHibs]

It’s no more of a fandan comment than your ridiculous post he was replying to. Say your scenario plays out and all the staff are emptied from East Mains. And Leeann too. What then? It’s an outrageous comment you made.

It just means I want to start from scratch with a new chairman and staff behind the scenes. I think a clearout on the board is the only way we move forward.

[matty_f]

Paraded as an "international" player - notionally half-decent, then?

Reality: Another jersey filler in a long line of duds, but hey, it tossed a bun to the gullible for a while.

Like I said, spin and smoke and mirrors.

He was always cover, but a better standard of cover than we had previously when we went for one of the many names listed on another thread.

Nothing to do with tossed buns, smoke, or mirrors - maybe just the club naively thinking that fans would be able to figure that out themselves without needing it broken down for them.

[matty_f]

It just means I want to start from scratch with a new chairman and staff behind the scenes. I think a clearout on the board is the only way we move forward.

Start from scratch because the first half of this season hasn't gone as we'd hoped?

You want to bin the people responsible for our highest points total in years, the cup win, European football twice, and record crowds because we've started the season badly.

That's great logic.

[DetroitHibs]

Start from scratch because the first half of this season hasn't gone as we'd hoped?

You want to bin the people responsible for our highest points total in years, the cup win, European football twice, and record crowds because we've started the season badly.

That's great logic.

No that's not it. Anytime we've had any little success, we never build on it. We have had more downs than ups during the current regime.

[B.H.F.C]

No that's not it. Anytime we've had any little success, we never build on it. We have had more downs than ups during the current regime.

Define the current regime? Because if you’re talking about since we appointed a new CEO, we’ve had more ups than downs.

[Danderhall Hibs]

He was always cover, but a better standard of cover than we had previously when we went for one of the many names listed on another thread.

Nothing to do with tossed buns, smoke, or mirrors - maybe just the club naively thinking that fans would be able to figure that out themselves without needing it broken down for them.

Very naive. They obviously thought we were more intelligent than we are. Or they didn’t factor in the consequences of losing a derby.

[Scotty Leither]

He was always cover, but a better standard of cover than we had previously when we went for one of the many names listed on another thread.

Nothing to do with tossed buns, smoke, or mirrors - maybe just the club naively thinking that fans would be able to figure that out themselves without needing it broken down for them.

A better standard of cover? Is that where we're at?

If so thanks for breaking it down for me - how naive of me to think that an "international" player might be getting signed to go straight into the team, and not providing "cover" for David Gray, who's been injured for most of the time his "cover" was here and who couldn't even get a game in his place.

I think any naivety lies with whoever is writing the puff pieces for the website and expecting the fans to swallow it - too many bargain basement buys/borrows once again which has been a flawed strategy in the past and is proving so once again.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No that's not it. Anytime we've had any little success, we never build on it. We have had more downs than ups during the current regime.

Do you build on success by binning anyone involved and starting again?

[DetroitHibs]

Define the current regime? Because if you’re talking about since we appointed a new CEO, we’ve had more ups than downs.

Petrie, I want rid of him.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I think any naivety lies with whoever is writing the puff pieces for the website and expecting the fans to swallow it

Sounds like you did swallow it and now due to a derby defeat are stomping your feet about how silly it’s made you look.

[matty_f]

A better standard of cover? Is that where we're at?

If so thanks for breaking it down for me - how naive of me to think that an "international" player might be getting signed to go straight into the team, and not providing "cover" for David Gray, who's been injured for most of the time his "cover" was here and who couldn't even get a game in his place.

I think any naivety lies with whoever is writing the puff pieces for the website and expecting the fans to swallow it - too many bargain basement buys/borrows once again which has been a flawed strategy in the past and is proving so once again.

That's fine, people can "swallow" what they like, if it's a "flawed" strategy and "bargain basement" then fair enough.

Interesting that you thought it was you who was being "naive" though, it was the club I was making that accusation of.

[Pretty Boy]

A better standard of cover? Is that where we're at?

If so thanks for breaking it down for me - how naive of me to think that an "international" player might be getting signed to go straight into the team, and not providing "cover" for David Gray, who's been injured for most of the time his "cover" was here and who couldn't even get a game in his place.

I think any naivety lies with whoever is writing the puff pieces for the website and expecting the fans to swallow it - too many bargain basement buys/borrows once again which has been a flawed strategy in the past and is proving so once again.

I think the cover issue you highlight is part of the reason there is a debate about giving David Gray a new contract; his injuries mean it is often an area we are left short in. I think the club realise that has to be handled delicately though.

As an example last season Hibs had no real desire to sign Rherras as cover for Gray wheh he was injured. The plan was to promote Andrew Blake from the development side but in a twist of fate he picked up exactly the same injury as Gray so we had to spend money on what was available outwith the window. Mavrias will be a similar situation. Gray picked up an injury, we needed cover so we brought in what we could. He served a purpose and now he's gone; whilst it's not ideal I don't really see a huge issue either. I don't have a problem with how he was announced either. He is an internationalist and it's unlikely any club unveils a player with 'he's here because we're desperate for a short term fix, sorry.'

[matty_f]

I think the cover issue you highlight is part of the reason there is a debate about giving David Gray a new contract; his injuries mean it is often an area we are left short in. I think the club realise that has to be handled delicately though.

As an example last season Hibs had no real desire to sign Rherras as cover for Gray wheh he was injured. The plan was to promote Andrew Blake from the development side but in a twist of fate he picked up exactly the same injury as Gray so we had to spend money on what was available outwith the window. Mavrias will be a similar situation. Gray picked up an injury, we needed cover so we brought in what we could. He served a purpose and now he's gone; whilst it's not ideal I don't really see a huge issue either.

Very naive mate.

We only got those players in because we don't want to spend any money.


Edit: not really, it's a good post. You're spot on.

[Eyrie]

Very naive mate.

We only got those players in because we don't want to spend any money.

So that explains why they were so poor - we didn't pay them anything for being here.

All makes sense now.

[matty_f]

So that explains why they were so poor - we didn't pay them anything for being here.

All makes sense now.

Penny-pinching Petrie at his worst.

[Captain Trips]

It's all really simple, our budget though not as big as Rangers or Celtic will have been bigger than a good few teams above us.

We didn't use it wisely on this occasion or the players are taking longer to fit in. Add it to NL IMO making some errors and players not working out fully as yet sees us 8th at the moment.

Let's see how this "budget" is used over next few weeks assuming it was not largely spent in summer.

[Scotty Leither]

That's fine, people can "swallow" what they like, if it's a "flawed" strategy and "bargain basement" then fair enough.

Interesting that you thought it was you who was being "naive" though, it was the club I was making that accusation of.

No I was actually being sarcastic in response, and got your point exactly as no-one could never accuse you of criticising the club over anything.

Just an aside though, how do you view Nelom's signing? With Stevenson out injured it seems Mackie is the preferred option at left-back - so is the laddie cover for Lewis, and if so where does that leave Nelom? Is he cover for the cover?

[Billy Whizz]

No I was actually being sarcastic in response, and got your point exactly as no-one could never accuse you of criticising the club over anything.

Just an aside though, how do you view Nelom's signing? With Stevenson out injured it seems Mackie is the preferred option at left-back - so is the laddie cover for Lewis, and if so where does that leave Nelom? Is he cover for the cover?
Nelom’s injured, hence the reason Sean’s stepped in. May convince the staff that he’s the successor for Lewis

[matty_f]

No I was actually being sarcastic in response, and got your point exactly as no-one could never accuse you of criticising the club over anything.

Just an aside though, how do you view Nelom's signing? With Stevenson out injured it seems Mackie is the preferred option at left-back - so is the laddie cover for Lewis, and if so where does that leave Nelom? Is he cover for the cover?

Nelom is injured, iirc.

I know you were being sarcastic, I wouldn't have expected anything else.

You do realise I'm just a fan and not the voice of the club, it's just some of the stuff you seem to be calling up as soon from the club I can't remember seeing them say it.

[tamig]

Petrie, I want rid of him.

So that’s the crux of it then for you. So why should all the others who’ve been appointed within the strucure Leeann has implemented since 2014 be binned also? As others have rightly pointed out, the people who’ve been behind our most successful period in the last 40 odd years. Did you only start following Hibs a couple of years back?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Nelom is injured, iirc.

I know you were being sarcastic, I wouldn't have expected anything else.

You do realise I'm just a fan and not the voice of the club, it's just some of the stuff you seem to be calling up as soon from the club I can't remember seeing them say it.

So Mackie is cover for the cover? Just so happens he grabbing his chance and it could save us money by being able to release Nelom?

I’m sure some won’t be happy that we’d save money by doing this though.

[matty_f]

So Mackie is cover for the cover? Just so happens he grabbing his chance and it could save us money by being able to release Nelom?

I’m sure some won’t be happy that we’d save money by doing this though.

Remember Nelom played earlier in the season to cover when he was fit and not injured?

Mackie grabbing his chance has properly thrown the cat amongst the pigeons now though, I don't know what to think now.

[Billy Whizz]

So Mackie is cover for the cover? Just so happens he grabbing his chance and it could save us money by being able to release Nelom?

I’m sure some won’t be happy that we’d save money by doing this though.

Academy have great belief in Sean, he’s seen as Lewis long term successor. As I’ve said many times on here, Lennon/Parker go to nearly every Hibs Dev/Reserve game, so they know what’s coming through

Another young lad, Josh Campbell on the bench last night, recently signed a long term deal at Hibs

[DetroitHibs]

So that’s the crux of it then for you. So why should all the others who’ve been appointed within the strucure Leeann has implemented since 2014 be binned also? As others have rightly pointed out, the people who’ve been behind our most successful period in the last 40 odd years. Did you only start following Hibs a couple of years back?

Been following Hibs since the 80's. Since Petrie has been at the helm, we've been relegated twice and been on average a bottom six team. We've had some success, but overall I've seen him as a failure. I'd just prefer a clear out, especially the scouting department.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Academy have great belief in Sean, he’s seen as Lewis long term successor. As I’ve said many times on here, Lennon/Parker go to nearly every Hibs Dev/Reserve game, so they know what’s coming through

Another young lad, Josh Campbell on the bench last night, recently signed a long term deal at Hibs

I like what I’ve seen from Mackie as well and can see why they have no hesitation in playing him.

Does beg the question why they brought Nelom in though?

[Billy Whizz]

I like what I’ve seen from Mackie as well and can see why they have no hesitation in playing him.

Does beg the question why they brought Nelom in though?

Maybe felt at this stage they didn’t want 3 young players in the team at the same time. But with young players, you never know how they’ll step up until they get on the pitch

[Scotty Leither]

Nelom is injured, iirc.

I know you were being sarcastic, I wouldn't have expected anything else.

You do realise I'm just a fan and not the voice of the club, it's just some of the stuff you seem to be calling up as soon from the club I can't remember seeing them say it.

When they released Mavrias the website said he provided "valuable cover at a time when club captain David Gray was sidelined through injury and made two first-team appearances before a hamstring complaint restricted his own involvement".

For "valuable cover" read another unfit stop-gap like Nelom who is now also injured apparently and will probably also be released soon and will be filed alongside Matelevicuis(sp) Rherras, Agogo, Keenan, Cregg et al as mere footnotes in the club's history, signed for pennies to replace guys we sold for big bucks.

I think "flawed strategy" just about covers it with no hint of naivety, either.

[matty_f]

When they released Mavrias the website said he provided "valuable cover at a time when club captain David Gray was sidelined through injury and made two first-team appearances before a hamstring complaint restricted his own involvement".

For "valuable cover" read another unfit stop-gap like Nelom who is now also injured apparently and will probably also be released soon and will be filed alongside Matelevicuis(sp) Rherras, Agogo, Keenan, Cregg et al as mere footnotes in the club's history, signed for pennies to replace guys we sold for big bucks.

I think "flawed strategy" just about covers it with no hint of naivety, either.

So he didn't provide cover? He did feature, albeit briefly, and was available if Lennon had chosen to go with a back four and needed him. Maybe if he hasn't hurt his hamstring he'd have featured more, crazy thought, though.

Nelom wasn't unfit, as far as I'm aware - where did you get that from?

For "valuable cover" I read it as a nice way of saying he was there if we needed him, of course you could soon that the other way and say he was an "unfit stop gap" but why would anyone do that?

[tamig]

Been following Hibs since the 80's. Since Petrie has been at the helm, we've been relegated twice and been on average a bottom six team. We've had some success, but overall I've seen him as a failure. I'd just prefer a clear out, especially the scouting department.
Fair enough. I tend to view it as we’ve made huge strides under Leeann’s spell as CEO.

[B.H.F.C]

Been following Hibs since the 80's. Since Petrie has been at the helm, we've been relegated twice and been on average a bottom six team. We've had some success, but overall I've seen him as a failure. I'd just prefer a clear out, especially the scouting department.

So if you want a total clear out who does the clearing out and new appointments?

[Scotty Leither]

So he didn't provide cover? He did feature, albeit briefly, and was available if Lennon had chosen to go with a back four and needed him. Maybe if he hasn't hurt his hamstring he'd have featured more, crazy thought, though.

Nelom wasn't unfit, as far as I'm aware - where did you get that from?

For "valuable cover" I read it as a nice way of saying he was there if we needed him, of course you could soon that the other way and say he was an "unfit stop gap" but why would anyone do that?

Has the manager not bemoaned the fitness/injury situation?

Nelom is injured now and in the games at Kilmarnock and Hamilton I've never seen a more disinterested player in my puff.

Presumably these guys don't play for nothing, and I would've much preferred their wages to be spent on someone who's going to go straight in the first team or at least be knocking at the door when they arrive, and can maybe stay fit for longer than five minutes as well.

Maybe it's simple things like this that our recruitment team can look at next time they fire up their lap-tops?

[matty_f]

Has the manager not bemoaned the fitness/injury situation?

Nelom is injured now and in the games at Kilmarnock and Hamilton I've never seen a more disinterested player in my puff.

Presumably these guys don't play for nothing, and I would've much preferred their wages to be spent on someone who's going to go straight in the first team or at least be knocking at the door when they arrive, and can maybe stay fit for longer than five minutes as well.

Maybe it's simple things like this that our recruitment team can look at next time they fire up their lap-tops?


The manager has moaned about it, yep. Unfortunately the way that bodies work, having a moan about them doesn't stop injuries happen or make them magically better.


How many of those players do you think are kicking about mid-season mate?

[Scotty Leither]

The manager has moaned about it, yep. Unfortunately the way that bodies work, having a moan about them doesn't stop injuries happen or make them magically better.


How many of those players do you think are kicking about mid-season mate?

It's our lamentable non-dealings in the window in August in the positions we were crying out for that's partly driving us signing these duds.

That and our infamous parsimony that's another ever-present, of course.

[AngloHibs]

So that’s the crux of it then for you. So why should all the others who’ve been appointed within the strucure Leeann has implemented since 2014 be binned also? As others have rightly pointed out, the people who’ve been behind our most successful period in the last 40 odd years. Did you only start following Hibs a couple of years back?
Not having a go, but it's not the most successful period for 40 years.
I don't post much, and when I do I usually get pelters for giving my opinion, but I will anyway. We have just spent 3 years in the second tier, and following a single promotion bounce season we seem to have settled down back into the bottom 6. That's not success.
The Cup win, although fantastic, doesn't gloss over this. I know it was a Holy Grail for many, but I haven't been following Hibs since 1902. Even ICT have won The Cup quite recently, and look at them now.

[matty_f]

It's our lamentable non-dealings in the window in August in the positions we were crying out for that's partly driving us signing these duds.

That and our infamous parsimony that's another ever-present, of course.

Which positions did we not sign for?

Two forwards.
Four midfielders (I think)
Goalkeeper

We didn't sign full backs but I don't think they were a priority in the summer.

The famous parsimony being the biggest football budget that this thread is about?

[Scotty Leither]

Which positions did we not sign for?

Two forwards.
Four midfielders (I think)
Goalkeeper

We didn't sign full backs but I don't think they were a priority in the summer.

The famous parsimony being the biggest football budget that this thread is about?

The ill-defined "biggest football budget"?

Our Board are strangely reticent on just how that manifests itself on the playing side though, eh?

[Mibbes Aye]

It sounds like classic accountant-speak to me. Much in the same way as Mavrias morphed from an "international" player to " cover" for David Gray in a matter of weeks.

Corporate BS and spin.

First in several of your petty digs at my club on this thread alone. You've made tons on other threads too.

What's your agenda? You spout spurious and weak accusations that are ultimately having a go at STF or Petrie, though usually you go 'passive aggressive' and hide behind mealy-mouthed suggestions and cowardly insinuances.

Why not man up, say what you've got to say and back it up with facts?

[matty_f]

The ill-defined "biggest football budget"?

Our Board are strangely reticent on just how that manifests itself on the playing side though, eh?

It really wasn't that ill-defined unless you chose it to be (or didn't understand it, and I don't think that's you because I think we've met before and I think you're significantly more intelligent than that).

[ScottB]

The budget being bigger isn’t really surprising, everything costs more than it used to, right across the board.

How big our budget is relative to our rivals is probably more important, and for that I’d be surprised if we were 4th or 5th largest.

[Mibbes Aye]

Academy have great belief in Sean, he’s seen as Lewis long term successor. As I’ve said many times on here, Lennon/Parker go to nearly every Hibs Dev/Reserve game, so they know what’s coming through

Another young lad, Josh Campbell on the bench last night, recently signed a long term deal at Hibs

I knew we were struggling to make up the numbers yesterday but Campbell was a new one on me. Can't recall seeing him though I don't get to as many dev games as I would like.

I think you mentioned in an earlier post but we are doing really well with dev players in the first team squad. For years it was just Hanlon and Lewis. Now we have five or six showing, all of a similar age. When the dev team did the double I don't think we ended up with any of them making the transition - Hanlon was in the age group IIRC but was promoted early. The fact that we have Porteous, Shaw and Mackie all pretty much settled as new players in the squad, plus Murray, Allan and Gullan still knocking at the door is very healthy.

Jury is still out on the latter three but I've seen enough of the former three to be confident they will make a career at a decent level hopefully a very decent career with us.

[One Day Soon]

Bloke on internet knows more than Hibernian specialist recruitment team on which players to sign and how.

Totally, I’m sold on it.

[Bostonhibby]

Bloke on internet knows more than Hibernian specialist recruitment team on which players to sign and how.

Totally, I’m sold on it.Man in pub is still my preferred source on matters like this.

He also does a bit of law, financial and marital advice as well as being an expert on both sides of the great brexit and independence divides.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[The Green Goblin]

Not having a go, but it's not the most successful period for 40 years.
I don't post much, and when I do I usually get pelters for giving my opinion, but I will anyway. We have just spent 3 years in the second tier, and following a single promotion bounce season we seem to have settled down back into the bottom 6. That's not success.
The Cup win, although fantastic, doesn't gloss over this. I know it was a Holy Grail for many, but I haven't been following Hibs since 1902. Even ICT have won The Cup quite recently, and look at them now.

Good post and I think your overview is fair, except I think you also have to acknowledge we came to within a whisker of nicking 2nd place last season and also had a few games in European competition.

[tamig]

Not having a go, but it's not the most successful period for 40 years.
I don't post much, and when I do I usually get pelters for giving my opinion, but I will anyway. We have just spent 3 years in the second tier, and following a single promotion bounce season we seem to have settled down back into the bottom 6. That's not success.
The Cup win, although fantastic, doesn't gloss over this. I know it was a Holy Grail for many, but I haven't been following Hibs since 1902. Even ICT have won The Cup quite recently, and look at them now.
The Cup topped everything for me. It was the culmination of some excellent cup runs under Stubbs - albeit we failed to win promotion at the first two attempts. That was followed by promotion then an excellent first tier back
In the top league. I can’t recall a better consecutive three year run in my time watching Hibs on a regular basis. I started watching when the Tornadoes were in their pomp but that was over 40 years ago and I haven’t included them in my comparison. I guess success is subjective to a point though.

[AngloHibs]

Good post and I think your overview is fair, except I think you also have to acknowledge we came to within a whisker of nicking 2nd place last season and also had a few games in European competition.

Correct, but we actually finished 4th, and that's what counts.
I don't like to use Hearts as a yardstick, but in their first season back up (their bounce season) they finished third. They regressed in the following season but still finished 5th, despite the Cathro debacle.
I don't know what the answer is, but I believe we should be doing better. Surely we should be in the top 6?

[B.H.F.C]

Correct, but we actually finished 4th, and that's what counts.
I don't like to use Hearts as a yardstick, but in their first season back up (their bounce season) they finished third. They regressed in the following season but still finished 5th, despite the Cathro debacle.
I don't know what the answer is, but I believe we should be doing better. Surely we should be in the top 6?

I think you need to look beyond the position last year. We achieved our record points total, we couldn’t have done much more than that in our first season back.

Criticism of what we are seeing this year is totally merited though.

[MWHIBBIES]

Been following Hibs since the 80's. Since Petrie has been at the helm, we've been relegated twice and been on average a bottom six team. We've had some success, but overall I've seen him as a failure. I'd just prefer a clear out, especially the scouting department.Petrie isn't at the helm, he's an employee of Tom Farmer and does what he's told.

[The 90+2]

Petrie isn't at the helm, he's an employee of Tom Farmer and does what he's told.

Petrie does what’s best for Hibernian in his head. He’s made ***** decisions but I don’t think he’s Farmers puppet.

[Forza Fred]

Petrie isn't at the helm, he's an employee of Tom Farmer and does what he's told.

He’s the Chairman of Hibernian FC.

That puts him at the helm for me.

Leeann is the Chief Executive, who is responsible for the day to day operations of the football club, and she reports to the Board, of which RP is chairman of.

[AngloHibs]

I think you need to look beyond the position last year. We achieved our record points total, we couldn’t have done much more than that in our first season back.

Criticism of what we are seeing this year is totally merited though.

I've just looked at our last League Championship in 1952. Under 3 points for a win our 50 points would have been 65, or 2.167 per game over a 30 game season.
Our 67 points during the last 38 game season works out at only 1.76 points per game.
Again. I'm not having a go, but the "record points" would only be relevant if all other conditions remained the same.
I stand by my point that last season was a promotion bounce, but it's this season that's relevant. Not calling for anyone's head, but it's not good enough. I wish I knew the answer.

[B.H.F.C]

I've just looked at our last League Championship in 1952. Under 3 points for a win our 50 points would have been 65, or 2.167 per game over a 30 game season.
Our 67 points during the last 38 game season works out at only 1.76 points per game.
Again. I'm not having a go, but the "record points" would only be relevant if all other conditions remained the same.
I stand by my point that last season was a promotion bounce, but it's this season that's relevant. Not calling for anyone's head, but it's not good enough. I wish I knew the answer.

I get what you’re saying but I think the ‘record points’ thing has only ever been talked about as being in the modern era / set up.

Obvoiously there has been more successful (and better) teams in our history but I think that points total is still worthy of recognition. It puts a different slant on what we achieved last year IMO.

I totally agree about this year though. As I said in my last post criticism of what is going on just now is merited.

[AngloHibs]

I've just looked at our last League Championship in 1952. Under 3 points for a win our 50 points would have been 65, or 2.167 per game over a 30 game season.
Our 67 points during the last 38 game season works out at only 1.76 points per game.
Again. I'm not having a go, but the "record points" would only be relevant if all other conditions remained the same.
I stand by my point that last season was a promotion bounce, but it's this season that's relevant. Not calling for anyone's head, but it's not good enough. I wish I knew the answer.

I've worded this badly.
I'm not suggesting that we should always win the Title. I'm just making the point that our record points total is only relevant over a 38 game season with 3 points for a win. And it only got us to 4th, which really should be the absolute minimum that a club of our size expects.

[Forza Fred]

Correct, but we actually finished 4th, and that's what counts.
I don't like to use Hearts as a yardstick, but in their first season back up (their bounce season) they finished third. They regressed in the following season but still finished 5th, despite the Cathro debacle.
I don't know what the answer is, but I believe we should be doing better. Surely we should be in the top 6?

Agree.

Media articles have consistently suggested we have the fifth biggest budget in Scotland, behind that of
Celtic
Rangers
Aberdeen
Hearts,

To me that simplistically suggests that finish above fifth and we can judge us to have done well, finish below that and we have underperformed.

Not sure what the performance targets would be in the manager’s contract though.

[Captain Trips]

Agree.

Media articles have consistently suggested we have the fifth biggest budget in Scotland, behind that of
Celtic
Rangers
Aberdeen
Hearts,

To me that simplistically suggests that finish above fifth and we can judge us to have done well, finish below that and we have underperformed.

Not sure what the performance targets would be in the manager’s contract though.

Well that would mean no European football via league and I believe Europe is a target mentioned by those above manager.

[The Green Goblin]

Correct, but we actually finished 4th, and that's what counts.
I don't like to use Hearts as a yardstick, but in their first season back up (their bounce season) they finished third. They regressed in the following season but still finished 5th, despite the Cathro debacle.
I don't know what the answer is, but I believe we should be doing better. Surely we should be in the top 6?

We certainly should.

[AngloHibs]

Agree.

Media articles have consistently suggested we have the fifth biggest budget in Scotland, behind that of
Celtic
Rangers
Aberdeen
Hearts,

To me that simplistically suggests that finish above fifth and we can judge us to have done well, finish below that and we have underperformed.

Not sure what the performance targets would be in the manager’s contract though.

I agree with this. I understand that it's about more than money, and I recognise that the Glasgow 2 have resources that will usually keep them above everyone else.

But Hibs (and Hearts) are based in one of the most fantastic cities in Europe, and their grounds and training facilities are streets ahead of the rest. Surely they should be able to have their collective pick of the "best of the rest" players, managers and coaches?

Again, I recognise that this is simplistic, but over a period of time I would expect Hibs and Hearts to usually be battling for 3rd and 4th.

Both under-achievers in my opinion.

[Scotty Leither]

First in several of your petty digs at my club on this thread alone. You've made tons on other threads too.

What's your agenda? You spout spurious and weak accusations that are ultimately having a go at STF or Petrie, though usually you go 'passive aggressive' and hide behind mealy-mouthed suggestions and cowardly insinuances.

Why not man up, say what you've got to say and back it up with facts?

It's my club as well pal, and I've no other "agenda" other than wanting to see my club flourish and punch its weight for maybe a sustained period of four/five/ten seasons and I don't think this Board, with the exemption of Dempster are equipped to do that.

I've always found them individually fearful of ever committing to anything approaching a bolder way of doing things, even slightly differently, and are painfully risk-averse, and I've "manned-up" on a number of occasions and told them that to their face too.

My elderly father is personally acquainted with Tom Farmer and I've nothing but admiration for what he did in saving the club all these years ago, but there's a mature and legitimate debate to be had about the club's future in terms of funding/shareholding etc, and I've made numerous suggestions in that vein too on other posts.

It's a fan's forum we're on, QED lots of different opinions; please challenge mine all you want, or put me on "ignore", it's all the same to me.

[Hi Heid Yin]

I agree with this. I understand that it's about more than money, and I recognise that the Glasgow 2 have resources that will usually keep them above everyone else.

But Hibs (and Hearts) are based in one of the most fantastic cities in Europe, and their grounds and training facilities are streets ahead of the rest. Surely they should be able to have their collective pick of the "best of the rest" players, managers and coaches?

Again, I recognise that this is simplistic, but over a period of time I would expect Hibs and Hearts to usually be battling for 3rd and 4th.

Both under-achievers in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more about both Capital clubs being "under achievers".

Many years back I calculated that Hearts had failed to win silverware for approximately 95% of their history...Hibs, were even worse..We had failed to win silverware for approximately 97% of our history.

Like you say, considering our base (Edinburgh) neither club has a history to "gloat about"

[Mibbes Aye]

It's my club as well pal, and I've no other "agenda" other than wanting to see my club flourish and punch its weight for maybe a sustained period of four/five/ten seasons and I don't think this Board, with the exemption of Dempster are equipped to do that.

I've always found them individually fearful of ever committing to anything approaching a bolder way of doing things, even slightly differently, and are painfully risk-averse, and I've "manned-up" on a number of occasions and told them that to their face too.

My elderly father is personally acquainted with Tom Farmer and I've nothing but admiration for what he did in saving the club all these years ago, but there's a mature and legitimate debate to be had about the club's future in terms of funding/shareholding etc, and I've made numerous suggestions in that vein too on other posts.

It's a fan's forum we're on, QED lots of different opinions; please challenge mine all you want, or put me on "ignore", it's all the same to me.

Putting you on 'ignore' as you suggest, would be the the easy option.

You've been very critical of how the how club is run.

What are your views, in length on how we should be run?

[Scotty Leither]

Putting you on 'ignore' as you suggest, would be the the easy option.

You've been very critical of how the how club is run.

What are your views, in length on how we should be run?

I've detailed it in many posts on various threads that you indeed referenced previously, and you seem to be the self-proclaimed barometer of public opinion on here, so why don't you go and have a look for yourself?

[southern hibby]

And one of the best managers.

He could double his money tomorrow.

If he’s one of our best managers, then please answer why we cannot pass a ball in front of wing backs or wingers and it’s constantly passed behind them so they need to stop and get the ball allowing teams to regroup? Why are throw ins abysmal? Why does it seem players don’t talk to one another, for example man on,time, turn etc? These things have not been addressed since he came in and frankly I don’t think they will be.

Just for the record I don’t want him sacked but he’s made out by some to be the best we have had and to be honest he has his faults.

GGTTH

[Ryan69]

A better standard of cover? Is that where we're at?

If so thanks for breaking it down for me - how naive of me to think that an "international" player might be getting signed to go straight into the team, and not providing "cover" for David Gray, who's been injured for most of the time his "cover" was here and who couldn't even get a game in his place.

I think any naivety lies with whoever is writing the puff pieces for the website and expecting the fans to swallow it - too many bargain basement buys/borrows once again which has been a flawed strategy in the past and is proving so once again.

For what they gave...I would of played for free. :)

Probably of offered more and freed up a wage too.

[Ryan69]

I knew we were struggling to make up the numbers yesterday but Campbell was a new one on me. Can't recall seeing him though I don't get to as many dev games as I would like.

I think you mentioned in an earlier post but we are doing really well with dev players in the first team squad. For years it was just Hanlon and Lewis. Now we have five or six showing, all of a similar age. When the dev team did the double I don't think we ended up with any of them making the transition - Hanlon was in the age group IIRC but was promoted early. The fact that we have Porteous, Shaw and Mackie all pretty much settled as new players in the squad, plus Murray, Allan and Gullan still knocking at the door is very healthy.

Jury is still out on the latter three but I've seen enough of the former three to be confident they will make a career at a decent level hopefully a very decent career with us.

Too many of them. A couple are not yet of the standard....and should be nowhere near the first team.
Lennons signings in the transfer window have mainly beem shocking.

[Mibbes Aye]

I've detailed it in many posts on various threads that you indeed referenced previously, and you seem to be the self-proclaimed barometer of public opinion on here, so why don't you go and have a look for yourself?

You've not really done anything except slander Farmer and Petrie.

As for me being the self-proclaimed barometer it sounds like you don't like anyone challenging you.

I'll repeat my previous post.

You've been very critical of how the how club is run.

What are your views, in length on how we should be run?

[My_Wife_Camille]

I knew we were struggling to make up the numbers yesterday but Campbell was a new one on me. Can't recall seeing him though I don't get to as many dev games as I would like.

I think you mentioned in an earlier post but we are doing really well with dev players in the first team squad. For years it was just Hanlon and Lewis. Now we have five or six showing, all of a similar age. When the dev team did the double I don't think we ended up with any of them making the transition - Hanlon was in the age group IIRC but was promoted early. The fact that we have Porteous, Shaw and Mackie all pretty much settled as new players in the squad, plus Murray, Allan and Gullan still knocking at the door is very healthy.

Jury is still out on the latter three but I've seen enough of the former three to be confident they will make a career at a decent level hopefully a very decent career with us.
That development team that won the double had Callum Booth, David Wotherspoon and Kurtis Byrne in it and even after that we had Forster, Stanton, Handling, Harris and Caldwell all as settled players in the squad.

[Mibbes Aye]

That development team that won the double had Callum Booth, David Wotherspoon and Kurtis Byrne in it and even after that we had Forster, Stanton, Handling, Harris and Caldwell all as settled players in the squad.

Who all did what?

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Academy have great belief in Sean, he’s seen as Lewis long term successor. As I’ve said many times on here, Lennon/Parker go to nearly every Hibs Dev/Reserve game, so they know what’s coming through

Another young lad, Josh Campbell on the bench last night, recently signed a long term deal at Hibs

Hi Billy. Can you shed any light on young Josh Campbell? Position, style of play etc?

[blackpoolhibs]

I've worded this badly.
I'm not suggesting that we should always win the Title. I'm just making the point that our record points total is only relevant over a 38 game season with 3 points for a win. And it only got us to 4th, which really should be the absolute minimum that a club of our size expects.

I think the point you make is a good one, although we are getting all uppity after half a season not 38 games, and while we have the biggest budget ever to spend, it wont have been spent all at once last summer.

What we have left will go towards helping us achieve as high a league position as possible this window, and it might mean players who were brought in last summer going out again as quickly as they came.

Sometimes signings dont work, or as good as we all thought they might be, but thats just part of building and getting things better, no manager gets them all right, its recognising that and being ruthless.

We are not that far away, and in my opinion its definitely a midfield problem we need to solve, we will find out very quickly if we can do this.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Who all did what?
Made the ‘transition’, as you put it.