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DetroitHibs
29-12-2018, 08:08 PM
This is a genuine question for anyone really in the know. Last year the Record ran a story/video showing how we target players. I believe it was George Craig and Dempster talking about it and watching videos of players online. What I would like to know is, how exactly is Lennon involved. Do they give him a list that they have targeted? Does Lennon seek out his own targets, do we even have scouts really unearthing potential diamonds in the rough? When I look at players like Milligan, Flo, Maclaren and the two Dutch full backs that signed and left, I don't see any real connection where Lennon will have known much about them.

Unseen work
29-12-2018, 08:09 PM
I think it’s more a case of agents offer us players, videos are then sent to the club who then either offer the player a trial or watch him in person

Ozyhibby
29-12-2018, 08:12 PM
I think an extensive list is put together of targets for each position then we sign the cheapest one.


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madhatter
29-12-2018, 08:25 PM
Sorry to say but it’s becoming evident that it doesn’t work very well. Not when scouting experienced players anyway.

I think we’ve got some great youth players coming through but recent signings only see the club going back in a drastic way. We lose McGinn and McGeouch and have ended up with no midfield. That proves our scouting isn’t right or the Manager isn’t right.

I’m losing a box to box combative midfielder, find me a 5ft7 man who cannot track his man or tackle (Horgan), and a loanee that is virtually the same but a bit taller (Hyndman). I’m losing a player that can drop deep take the ball off the defenders and get the team moving forward, find me a midfielder that can take set pieces and can play a few nice passes here and there but regularly kicks the ball over his shoulder under little pressure (Mallan).

Best two players I’ve seen this season, in terms of filling me with confidence, are Porteous and Mackie. There is not one single signing that’s made me think “wow, we’ve got a decent player there”. Milligan and MacLaren have been criminal.

Diclonius
29-12-2018, 08:27 PM
We identify a player which would add to our team, offer wages under his value, he turns down our offer/goes to Aberdeen or Hearts and we sign a Championship youth player on loan.

My_Wife_Camille
29-12-2018, 08:30 PM
Deary me. Of course it does. Big Dave, Danny Swanson, Frank De Dje Dje, Mavrias, Nelom, Eckersely, Eardley, Jake Sinclair, Islam Feruz and Jamie Insall never put a foot wrong.

The Captain....
29-12-2018, 08:30 PM
We identify a player which would add to our team, offer wages under his value, he turns down our offer/goes to Aberdeen or Hearts and we sign a Championship youth player on loan.Pretty much this..

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loanheadhibby
29-12-2018, 08:51 PM
Deary me. Of course it does. Big Dave, Danny Swanson, Frank De Dje Dje, Mavrias, Nelom, Eckersely, Eardley, Jake Sinclair, Islam Feruz and Jamie Insall never put a foot wrong.

And yet no one calls the recruitment side out? Happy to Tia eplaudits for McGinn/McGeoch (and rightly so) but no where to be seen now. You can add Agyepong, Hyndman, McLaren and Slivka to that list as well.

DetroitHibs
29-12-2018, 08:56 PM
The whole system needs changed by the sounds of it. Agents knocking on our door offering players is never a good sign. If the players were any good, TEAMS would be knocking on the agents door. I'd be more focused on unearthing young players from the first division and even non league football down south. Rather we pay a Dunfermline £200,000 for up and coming players, than persist with loans and unknown foreigners.

wookie70
29-12-2018, 09:16 PM
Has the system changed since Stubbs was in charge. It worked pretty well then. It seems to be excelling at finding good goalkeepers and ex Celtc players but not much else.

cleanyman
29-12-2018, 09:19 PM
It doesn't

It's terrible

Speedway
29-12-2018, 09:23 PM
1. Scouting team identify players that have stats that match what management is looking for when filling a position.

2. Players are submitted to manager to consider alongside agent submitted recommendations.

3. Management team draws up shortlist of three for the position and submits them to the board.

4. Board makes approaches in line with budget.

5. Chairman intervenes, plays silly beggars, argues the toss over pennies in the pound, moves the goalposts and the players agent tells Hibs to **** off.

6. Then we sign a loan player.

Silky
29-12-2018, 09:25 PM
Has the system changed since Stubbs was in charge. It worked pretty well then. It seems to be excelling at finding good goalkeepers and ex Celtc players but not much else.

Did it really? It didn't get us out of the Championship.

Nakedmanoncrack
29-12-2018, 09:29 PM
This is a genuine question for anyone really in the know. Last year the Record ran a story/video showing how we target players. I believe it was George Craig and Dempster talking about it and watching videos of players online. What I would like to know is, how exactly is Lennon involved. Do they give him a list that they have targeted? Does Lennon seek out his own targets, do we even have scouts really unearthing potential diamonds in the rough? When I look at players like Milligan, Flo, Maclaren and the two Dutch full backs that signed and left, I don't see any real connection where Lennon will have known much about them.

The story had some people salivating over how great George & Leanne and their system is, I always viewed it as more of a dubious, self congratulatory exercise with no substance.

J-C
29-12-2018, 09:39 PM
No matter who scouts the players, Mathie Craig etc the final word is down to Lennon who we sign and at the moment I don't have a lot of confidence in his choice of player.

Smartie
29-12-2018, 09:44 PM
Deary me. Of course it does. Big Dave, Danny Swanson, Frank De Dje Dje, Mavrias, Nelom, Eckersely, Eardley, Jake Sinclair, Islam Feruz and Jamie Insall never put a foot wrong.

Do you judge Fergie's time at Manchester United by this motley crew or do you take all signings into consideration and look at the bigger picture?

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/gallery/ranked-fergies-20-worst-mufc-signings

Scotty Leither
29-12-2018, 10:03 PM
1. Scouting team identify players that have stats that match what management is looking for when filling a position.

2. Players are submitted to manager to consider alongside agent submitted recommendations.

3. Management team draws up shortlist of three for the position and submits them to the board.

4. Board makes approaches in line with budget.

5. Chairman intervenes, plays silly beggars, argues the toss over pennies in the pound, moves the goalposts and the players agent tells Hibs to **** off.

6. Then we sign a loan player.

I've been told this happened in the past regularly, don't know if it's still the case now, but as far as "statement of intent" transfers go, we've been distinctly muted in that regard the last two windows.

Can we just sign players that are a) Fit to play straightaway and b) Are signed to go straight in the first team - i.e. decent signings, and lastly c) If we must persist in signing "cover" such as Mavrias and Rherras can we just call them exactly that and don't herald them as "international signings" and that way I can meekly manage my expectations?

J-C
29-12-2018, 10:11 PM
1. Scouting team identify players that have stats that match what management is looking for when filling a position.

2. Players are submitted to manager to consider alongside agent submitted recommendations.

3. Management team draws up shortlist of three for the position and submits them to the board.

4. Board makes approaches in line with budget.

5. Chairman intervenes, plays silly beggars, argues the toss over pennies in the pound, moves the goalposts and the players agent tells Hibs to **** off.

6. Then we sign a loan player.



SSHHH!! can't say that as we were all told by certain posters on here that Lennon and Co. weren't even interested in that certain midfielder and none of that actually happened. The reason The Cat hasn't been back.

bookert
29-12-2018, 10:19 PM
Did it really? It didn't get us out of the Championship.

It was stubbs team that got us out of the championship and won us the Cup. It was still stubbs team last season to a large extent. It is definitely lennons team now.

wookie70
29-12-2018, 10:51 PM
Did it really? It didn't get us out of the Championship.

It won the Scottish Cup and came very close to winning the league cup while falling a bit short at the end of the season in the league when a big spending The Rangers team pulled away and fatigue set in. I think it also got one point less than Lennon managed despite having stronger teams in the league.

How many Lennon signings displaced Stubbs ones from the team. Efe came in and the goalkeepers. The rest of the defence and midfield stayed the same for our Championship win and good return to the top league. We are now very much a Lennon team(not sure team is the right word though as we don't look like it most weeks, group of 11 individuals would be more accurate) and there is hardly a player in the team he signed that looks a winner.(Efe and GKs excepted).

DetroitHibs
29-12-2018, 10:51 PM
A director of football might not be a bad idea. Someone that's really involved in the recruitment side of things and properly scouting players. Why not be 100% thorough in that side of things, especially with unknown players. I'd go as far as to call previous managers ask them what the players attitude is like, injury concerns etc.

Chorley Hibee
29-12-2018, 11:10 PM
1. Scouting team identify players that have stats that match what management is looking for when filling a position.

2. Players are submitted to manager to consider alongside agent submitted recommendations.

3. Management team draws up shortlist of three for the position and submits them to the board.

4. Board makes approaches in line with budget.

5. Chairman intervenes, plays silly beggars, argues the toss over pennies in the pound, moves the goalposts and the players agent tells Hibs to **** off.

6. Then we sign a loan player.

Sums up the Petrie tenure perfectly.

Jones28
29-12-2018, 11:36 PM
1. Scouting team identify players that have stats that match what management is looking for when filling a position.

2. Players are submitted to manager to consider alongside agent submitted recommendations.

3. Management team draws up shortlist of three for the position and submits them to the board.

4. Board makes approaches in line with budget.

5. Chairman intervenes, plays silly beggars, argues the toss over pennies in the pound, moves the goalposts and the players agent tells Hibs to **** off.

6. Then we sign a loan player.

You got proof for this aye? Big calls to make if they can't be backed up.

Jones28
29-12-2018, 11:37 PM
Sums up the Petrie tenure perfectly.

It's not his tenure anymore is it though? It's a different era, this is Lennons team. We didn't replace McGinn or Allan and tried to fit square pegs in round holes.

Big big questions are there to be answered in this transfer window.

tamig
29-12-2018, 11:44 PM
A director of football might not be a bad idea. Someone that's really involved in the recruitment side of things and properly scouting players. Why not be 100% thorough in that side of things, especially with unknown players. I'd go as far as to call previous managers ask them what the players attitude is like, injury concerns etc.

George Craig is effectively the DoF. How do you know the recruitment team aren’t doing all of the things you list? I suspect most if not all of them are covered.

The 90+2
29-12-2018, 11:46 PM
Said on the other thread bring back John Park pronto before guessing in January.

Rumble de Thump
29-12-2018, 11:50 PM
Another Hibs.net car crash thread full of people embarrassing themselves.

Danderhall Hibs
29-12-2018, 11:53 PM
I think if we’re winning games the recruitment system is brilliant, revolutionary and another brilliant thing LD has introduced.

If we lose a few games or just a derby then it’s horrendous, doesn’t work and Rod has his hands all over it.

bigwheel
29-12-2018, 11:57 PM
I think if we’re winning games the recruitment system is brilliant, revolutionary and another brilliant thing LD has introduced.

If we lose a few games or just a derby then it’s horrendous, doesn’t work and Rod has his hands all over it.

Think you just summed up internet football forums on any topic [emoji3][emoji6]


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The 90+2
29-12-2018, 11:58 PM
I think if we’re winning games the recruitment system is brilliant, revolutionary and another brilliant thing LD has introduced.

If we lose a few games or just a derby then it’s horrendous, doesn’t work and Rod has his hands all over it.

A few games? Look at where we are at the end of the year. The recruitment and replacements have been a shambles.

Scotty Leither
29-12-2018, 11:58 PM
George Craig is effectively the DoF. How do you know the recruitment team aren’t doing all of the things you list? I suspect most if not all of them are covered.

Same recruitment team that feed us a line on the website of "another international player being signed" only to announce the same player's release as "thanking him for his service" but "he was only signed as cover for David Gray"...

Patronising guff at its worst.

Viva_Palmeiras
29-12-2018, 11:59 PM
A mix of roulette, tarot cards and pin the tail on the donkey ;)

#WotDanderhallSaid

Ozyhibby
30-12-2018, 12:32 AM
I think if we’re winning games the recruitment system is brilliant, revolutionary and another brilliant thing LD has introduced.

If we lose a few games or just a derby then it’s horrendous, doesn’t work and Rod has his hands all over it.

So people are happy when we are winning and not so much when we are losing? Insightful stuff.


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Vault Boy
30-12-2018, 02:03 AM
Certainly much better than it used to.

Gray
Fontaine
McGregor
Allan
Ambrose
Bartley
Kamberi
Bogdan
Marciano
Malonga
Boyle
Stokes
McGinn
Fyvie
McGeouch
Henderson

There's always gonna be a few that don't work out, who are brought in purely for emergency cover or who simply aren't good enough. Happens in every team.

DetroitHibs
30-12-2018, 06:44 AM
And here's the other half, probably missing one or two. We sign more duds than we do good players, hence being 8th in the table.

Farid
Thomson
Dagnall
Carmichael
Mullen
Tudor Jones
Vine
Zoubir
Boateng
Maclean
Eardley
Humphrey
Graham
Swanson
Reharras
Matulviceus
Insall
Nelom
Mavrais
Whittaker 3 year deal :confused:

Pretty Boy
30-12-2018, 07:11 AM
And here's the other half, probably missing one or two. We sign more duds than we do good players, hence being 8th in the table.

Farid
Thomson
Dagnall
Carmichael
Mullen
Tudor Jones
Vine
Zoubir
Boateng
Maclean
Eardley
Humphrey
Graham
Swanson
Reharras
Matulviceus
Insall
Nelom
Mavrais
Whittaker 3 year deal :confused:

A few of those players pre date the current recruitment set up. Someone more cynical than me might think you have just added them to bump up your number and ensure it's bigger than the success list.

DetroitHibs
30-12-2018, 07:26 AM
A few of those players pre date the current recruitment set up. Someone more cynical than me might think you have just added them to bump up your number and ensure it's bigger than the success list.

I was trying to gauge around the time Fonts was signed. Was thinking he was around the time of most these guys, not 100% sure on the likes of Vine and Jones. Thought about listing Hyndman and Mallan, but gave them a pass. Still think they've been pretty woeful though.

Danderhall Hibs
30-12-2018, 07:36 AM
So people are happy when we are winning and not so much when we are losing? Insightful stuff.


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Yes you could boil it down to that. What happens is some folk take everything to extremes, become over emotional and hysterical.

Forza Fred
30-12-2018, 07:39 AM
Not so long ago we used to wait until the last day of the window to sign duds.


That’s all changed.

Now we do it early in the window.

Golden Bear
30-12-2018, 07:45 AM
Not so long ago we used to wait until the last day of the window to sign duds.


That’s all changed.

Now we do it early in the window.

:greengrin

Brooster
30-12-2018, 08:00 AM
You don't achieve 8th in this league with an effective recruitment system and the biggest budget ever.

DetroitHibs
30-12-2018, 08:26 AM
Another issue that should have been closely looked in to, was the Flo and Mac combo from last year. I've not got the time or inclination, but someone at Hibs should be going over this stuff. Was the partnership really that good, or was it more. I just watched MacLaren's goals from last season. He nor Flo really linked up for the goals, it was the midfield supplying the quality. That quality has more or less gone and both players are starved for chances.

Bearders
30-12-2018, 08:54 AM
No matter who scouts the players, Mathie Craig etc the final word is down to Lennon who we sign and at the moment I don't have a lot of confidence in his choice of player.

How do you know NL has the final word?

J-C
30-12-2018, 09:00 AM
How do you know NL has the final word?


He's the manager, he'll tell the scouting team the kind of players he's looking for, they'll come back with a list and Lennon will tell them which ones he's happy with. Craig might be Director of Operations but at Hibs we do not work with a DOF who purchases the players and the manager has to do with what he's given, Lennon will have the final say as to who we get in, it's up to the board to finalise these deals, hence why he wasn't happy when we never got Allan in the summer.

Bearders
30-12-2018, 09:10 AM
He's the manager, he'll tell the scouting team the kind of players he's looking for, they'll come back with a list and Lennon will tell them which ones he's happy with. Craig might be Director of Operations but at Hibs we do not work with a DOF who purchases the players and the manager has to do with what he's given, Lennon will have the final say as to who we get in, it's up to the board to finalise these deals, hence why he wasn't happy when we never got Allan in the summer.

I understand the model but is this what happens for all signings? The unhappiness is not just In relation to Allan - strikers as well.

Forza Fred
30-12-2018, 09:10 AM
Not having a go at Lennie, but I think he has broadened his managerial outlook and learned a few things from his time at Hibs.

At Celtic with basically the biggest budget in Scotland if a player he signed turned out duff, he could simply discard him and sign whomever he wanted to replace him.

The old ‘suck it and see’ philosophy doesn’t quite work at Hibs and most other Scottish clubs.

Much more care has to be taken in the selection of players, as you may very well be stuck with your first choices, as money to simply replace them may not be available.

J-C
30-12-2018, 09:22 AM
I understand the model but is this what happens for all signings? The unhappiness is not just In relation to Allan - strikers as well.


Flo and Jamie were recommended by their agent but they'd be scouted afterwards by Mathie and his team, I also think they both worked well in the 2nd half of the season to justify bringing them back to the club, there was a feel good factor and maybe the players were happy to come back but for whatever reason things have turned sour. We have no knowledge what goes on behind the doors at ER but for me something just isn't right and I can't put my finger on it, we have Lennon and Parker putting all the blame on the strikers without acknowledging the fact that our midfield is rank rotten I think they know they've screwed up in the summer and recruited poorly and are now deflecting the criticism away from themselves and onto the players, which if true is poor management indeed.

Greenworld
30-12-2018, 09:45 AM
Flo and Jamie were recommended by their agent but they'd be scouted afterwards by Mathie and his team, I also think they both worked well in the 2nd half of the season to justify bringing them back to the club, there was a feel good factor and maybe the players were happy to come back but for whatever reason things have turned sour. We have no knowledge what goes on behind the doors at ER but for me something just isn't right and I can't put my finger on it, we have Lennon and Parker putting all the blame on the strikers without acknowledging the fact that our midfield is rank rotten I think they know they've screwed up in the summer and recruited poorly and are now deflecting the criticism away from themselves and onto the players, which if true is poor management indeed.You summed it up well ill add this last season NL commented that he knew that he would be loosing John mcginn and mcgeoch and that work was underway to find replacements.
We didn't of course we signed other good players but not good enough.
It is obvious something is not right NL is not the same character he seems flat maybe exasperated perhaps he is not getting the backing he thought he would from the board.
We were so close to moving to a new level as a club and maybe still can but we need to spend big for once and bring in real quality now.

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Ozyhibby
30-12-2018, 11:01 AM
Flo and Jamie were recommended by their agent but they'd be scouted afterwards by Mathie and his team, I also think they both worked well in the 2nd half of the season to justify bringing them back to the club, there was a feel good factor and maybe the players were happy to come back but for whatever reason things have turned sour. We have no knowledge what goes on behind the doors at ER but for me something just isn't right and I can't put my finger on it, we have Lennon and Parker putting all the blame on the strikers without acknowledging the fact that our midfield is rank rotten I think they know they've screwed up in the summer and recruited poorly and are now deflecting the criticism away from themselves and onto the players, which if true is poor management indeed.

I don’t think they are deflecting at all. Lennon said on sky sports that the summer recruitment had failed and that it was his fault.



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Heckys Wheel
30-12-2018, 11:05 AM
And here's the other half, probably missing one or two. We sign more duds than we do good players, hence being 8th in the table.

Farid
Thomson
Dagnall
Carmichael
Mullen
Tudor Jones
Vine
Zoubir
Boateng
Maclean
Eardley
Humphrey
Graham
Swanson
Reharras
Matulviceus
Insall
Nelom
Mavrais
Whittaker 3 year deal :confused:

For me there is question marks over our recruitment but Whittaker is now into his second year of his 3 year deal and he’s performing well.

wookie70
30-12-2018, 11:15 AM
For me there is question marks over our recruitment but Whittaker is now into his second year of his 3 year deal and he’s performing well.

Whittaker is one of Lennon's better signings for me. He has done pretty well since his injury has cleared up and can play in a few positions. Three years was a wee bit of a gamble but if rumours are true that he isn't on a huge wage then I would have Whitts in the success column.

Smartie
30-12-2018, 11:20 AM
Whittaker is one of Lennon's better signings for me. He has done pretty well since his injury has cleared up and can play in a few positions. Three years was a wee bit of a gamble but if rumours are true that he isn't on a huge wage then I would have Whitts in the success column.

We also had our strongest spell of last night's game when he was shifted into central midfield. He actually put a very decent shift in whilst he was played there.

wookie70
30-12-2018, 11:29 AM
We also had our strongest spell of last night's game when he was shifted into central midfield. He actually put a very decent shift in whilst he was played there.

It amazes me that Lennon persists with 3 at the back. Whitts has been pretty decent in the anchor role and we have looked better as a team when playing with 4 at the back. Bartley and Milligan can also play there so there is usually an option to go with a 4 and allow Mallan to be further up the park where his shooting can come more into play.

J-C
30-12-2018, 11:45 AM
I don’t think they are deflecting at all. Lennon said on sky sports that the summer recruitment had failed and that it was his fault.



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Taken him long enough to realise this then.