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Hibeesmad
05-12-2018, 11:43 PM
Got us promoted to the Premiership at the first time of asking.
Got us to two semi-final’s and gave us one of our main ambitions of playing European football after one season in the premiership.
Got the team playing the best football we have seen in decades.
Only 2 defeats in 8 derby matches. Unbeaten at home.
Unbeaten at Ibrox.

We’ve dropped a lot of points in the last 6 games but Saturday is a new start. I started a thread before the Dundee game saying the next 4 games are vital otherwise we are in trouble. We have taken 1 point out of a possible 9 so far out of those 4 games. But I have faith this man is going to turn this around.

In Lennon we trust.

BegbieHSC
05-12-2018, 11:45 PM
Hear ****ing hear

Hi Heid Yin
05-12-2018, 11:45 PM
Got us promoted to the Premiership at the first time of asking.
Got us to two semi-final’s and gave us one of our main ambitions of playing European football after one season in the premiership.
Got the team playing the best football we have seen in decades.
Only 2 defeats in 8 derby matches. Unbeaten at home.
Unbeaten at Ibrox.

We’ve dropped a lot of points in the last 6 games but Saturday is a new start. I started a thread before the Dundee game saying the next 4 games are vital otherwise we are in trouble. We have taken 1 point out of a possible 9 so far out of those 4 games. But I have faith this man is going to turn this around.

In Lennon we trust.

These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

21.05.2016
05-12-2018, 11:48 PM
I agree, that for now at least, Lennon is still the man for the job. However, he can't live off past acomplishments, thats all very well and good but it's what he can do NOW that matters. ATM the team is performing well below par and we are struggling against teams we really should be comfortably beating, especially at home!

I stand by him now but things need to change and FAST or we are in danger of undoing all the progress we've made in the last 4 years and finding ourselves back to being a mediocre bottom 6 team.

660
05-12-2018, 11:49 PM
Stubbs had us playing in Europe, getting to finals and skelping Hearts.

Best football since...uhhh Mowbray. I suppose 1.2 decades counts as “decades”.

Hibeesmad
05-12-2018, 11:53 PM
Stubbs had us playing in Europe, getting to finals and skelping Hearts.

Best football since...uhhh Mowbray. I suppose 1.2 decades counts as “decades”.

Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
05-12-2018, 11:55 PM
Got us promoted to the Premiership at the first time of asking.
Got us to two semi-final’s and gave us one of our main ambitions of playing European football after one season in the premiership.
Got the team playing the best football we have seen in decades.
Only 2 defeats in 8 derby matches. Unbeaten at home.
Unbeaten at Ibrox.

We’ve dropped a lot of points in the last 6 games but Saturday is a new start. I started a thread before the Dundee game saying the next 4 games are vital otherwise we are in trouble. We have taken 1 point out of a possible 9 so far out of those 4 games. But I have faith this man is going to turn this around.

In Lennon we trust.

In decades? Behave, Mowbrays and McLeishs teams were as good, and both finished higher in the league.

660
05-12-2018, 11:55 PM
Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

I’m not saying Stubbs is the answer, I was just pointing out most of Lennons strengths cited by the OP also applied to Stubbs.

madhatter
05-12-2018, 11:56 PM
These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

“Pro-Neil Lennon” fans choose to ignore his shambolic transfer dealings, that’s a fact as well, most of his signings have been garbage. Stubbs team got us promoted. In seriousness, why not just state your support without labelling other fans.

The gulf between resources when we got promoted...not being funny but I’d expect a seasoned Football Manager player to have been able to get us promoted. Some of the teams we were playing had average attendances of 1-2k...

Quality over quantity has ended up being small levels of dross. Most of our best starting line up is still Stubbs based. We seem to be playing Kamberi, MacLaren, Boyle and Horgan because we simply don’t have other players. Hence why we are also starting Shaw.

Pretty Boy
05-12-2018, 11:56 PM
These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall. I could even accept results not going our way if we were playing well but we are turning in utterly woeful performances week in and week out to go along with the crap results.

The players undoubtedly need to shoulder a chunk of the blame but so does the manager. It's his team, his players, his selections and his tactics that are playing a part in the shambles this season is becoming.

Carheenlea
05-12-2018, 11:57 PM
The latest stats are the most important though, and trusting the manager is all well and good, but everything is pointing towards an alarming break down and undoing of all the previous good work.

AgentDaleCooper
06-12-2018, 12:00 AM
I 100% back him.

we are hibs
06-12-2018, 12:03 AM
Got us promoted to the Premiership at the first time of asking.
Got us to two semi-final’s and gave us one of our main ambitions of playing European football after one season in the premiership.
Got the team playing the best football we have seen in decades.
Only 2 defeats in 8 derby matches. Unbeaten at home.
Unbeaten at Ibrox.

We’ve dropped a lot of points in the last 6 games but Saturday is a new start. I started a thread before the Dundee game saying the next 4 games are vital otherwise we are in trouble. We have taken 1 point out of a possible 9 so far out of those 4 games. But I have faith this man is going to turn this around.

In Lennon we trust.

1- promoted at first time of asking was actually the first time we were favourites to go up. Anything else would have been an embarrassment.

2- got us to 2 semi finals and lost both. That's hardly a great achievement is it?

3- fair enough we got into Europe in our first season back which was a very good achievement

4- best football for one half of a season. We lumped it up to Holt and Graham in the championship, then stokes first half of last and now kamberi this season.

5- 0 wins at tynecastle and his unnessecary tinkering with the team and throwing in players out the blue is a common occurrence when we go to tynecastle.

6- 2 good wins at ibrox. Is that reason enough to keep him when we can't even beat st.johnstone, Dundee and st.mirren at home in the here and now?

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:04 AM
A lot of people saying that Lennon took over Stubbs’s signings. But you could probably agree that those players improved massively under Lennon’s management.

B.H.F.C
06-12-2018, 12:04 AM
These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

We have 6 games between now and the winter break. How many of them do you think we are likely to win? A couple at most maybe?

We’ll be talking about a couple of wins in 13 games.

It’s not just a slump. Something is seriously wrong.

Brooster
06-12-2018, 12:04 AM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

madhatter
06-12-2018, 12:06 AM
A lot of people saying that Lennon took over Stubbs’s signings. But you could probably agree that those players improved massively under Lennon’s management.

Boyle maybe, certainly not at the moment though. Which other player has improved?

660
06-12-2018, 12:07 AM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

Source?

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
06-12-2018, 12:07 AM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

It certainly looks that way to me.

EH54
06-12-2018, 12:07 AM
In lennon I don't trust, the mans up and down like a yoyo just like his team. He can't even face the media when the going gets tough. Unprofessional as a manager comes.

B.H.F.C
06-12-2018, 12:07 AM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

It’s so apparent the way the players are at the moment.

I think it’s a matter of when, not if he goes now.

HibeeHibernian4
06-12-2018, 12:08 AM
Got us promoted to the Premiership at the first time of asking.

In by far the easiest of the three Championships we had to contend with.


Got us to two semi-final’s and gave us one of our main ambitions of playing European football after one season in the premiership.
Stubbs got us to three semi finals, two finals, won us the cup and gave us European football.


Got the team playing the best football we have seen in decades.
Debatable, and with a midfield trio that Stubbs signed (he re-signed Allan and that's it).


Only 2 defeats in 8 derby matches. Unbeaten at home.
Stubbs lost 1 in 6. He was also unbeaten at home. He also had a go at them at Tynecastle, with Hibs scoring in all four derbies we played there, including a memorable 2-2 draw having been 2-0 down with 10 minutes to go. We have scored just once in four derbies there under Lennon, from the penalty spot.


Unbeaten at Ibrox.
A very good achievement from Lennon, Stubbs also managed two, comprehensive victories at Ibrox in his time with us too.


See how anyone can manipulate stats to make a case for almost any manager?

SideBurns
06-12-2018, 12:09 AM
How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall. I could even accept results not going our way if we were playing well but we are turning in utterly woeful performances week in and week out to go along with the crap results.

The players undoubtedly need to shoulder a chunk of the blame but so does the manager. It's his team, his players, his selections and his tactics that are playing a part in the shambles this season is becoming.

I agree. At the moment it is just a "7 game slump"; at what point does the slump become one where a change is necessary? 10? 12? Or, for some, do we just never reach that stage? I desperately hope Lennon can turn this around, starting on Saturday, but if he doesn't there is no reason why he shouldn't meet the same fate as any other manager who is unable to field a winning team.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
06-12-2018, 12:09 AM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

:agree:

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:10 AM
Boyle maybe, certainly not at the moment though. Which other player has improved?

I thought McGeough, Allan and McGinn all improved under Lennon. Which other players would you count as Stubbs signing? Maybe Bartley, arguably could say he has improved also

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:10 AM
Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

Lennon wouldn’t have taken us out the league the seasons we had under Stubbs.

Stubbs and George Craig with the assistance of LD built a football club and an actual team! Stubbs also won us building his own team our holy grail. Lennon recently hasn’t got an actual clue when it’s csme down to bringing his own players in and developing his own team. Not one clue.

Trust Lennon? Based on what? He can’t even trust himself to come out to be interviewed. To say sorry for his actions have spoiled our season up and set us back big time.

I said 8k, got called a drama queen but that’s around the mark it was tonight. We are bottom six and it’s the managers fault and nobody else, nothing to do with Petrie. The guy thinks he’s too good for us and is being found out as tactically rotten and a piss poor man manager.

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:12 AM
I thought McGeough, Allan and McGinn all improved under Lennon. Which other players would you count as Stubbs signing? Maybe Bartley, arguably could say he has improved also

No they didn’t 😂😂😂 Almost back to his best. McGinn an Dylan where improving regardless of the manager.

we are hibs
06-12-2018, 12:13 AM
Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

First season Stubbs had to chuck together a team from nothing with hearts and rangers in the league. We ended up 2nd and lost to rangers. Most hibs fans didn't expect us to even make the play offs in September 2014 cause we were poor up until the win at ibrox where everything seemed to click. Second season he had rangers in the league and going for it big time and we matched them until the end of February and maintained a run in both cups. Then the wheels came off in the league a bit but mitigating circumstances like getting to 2 cup finals with a small squad had a lot to do with it.

Let's not make out Stubbs was a complete disaster in the league; because he clearly wasn't.

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:14 AM
In by far the easiest of the three Championships we had to contend with.


Stubbs got us to three semi finals, two finals, won us the cup and gave us European football.


Debatable, and with a midfield trio that Stubbs signed (he re-signed Allan and that's it).


Stubbs lost 1 in 6. He was also unbeaten at home. He also had a go at them at Tynecastle, with Hibs scoring in all four derbies we played there, including a memorable 2-2 draw having been 2-0 down with 10 minutes to go. We have scored just once there under Lennon, from the penalty spot.


A very good achievement from Lennon, Stubbs also managed two, comprehensive victories at Ibrox in his time with us too.


See how anyone can manipulate stats to make a case for almost any manager?

Do you think Neil Lennon has been successful as Hibernian manager?

I did not mention Alan Stubbs at any point in my opening post. I am stating facts of Lennon’s success as manager. Lennon is a winner. He is more successful than Stubbs as a manager and always will be if you are wanting to compare him to Stubbs.

I’m just making point that what he has done at Hibs has been overwhelming and that I trust him to keep achieveing.

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:14 AM
First season Stubbs had to chuck together a team from nothing with hearts and rangers in the league. We ended up 2nd and lost to rangers. Most hibs fans didn't expect us to even make the play offs in September 2014 cause we were poor up until the win at ibrox where everything seemed to click. Second season he had rangers in the league and going for it big time and we matched them until the end of February and maintained a run in both cups. Then the wheels came off in the league a bit but mitigating circumstances like getting to 2 cup finals with a small squad had a lot to do with it.

Let's not make out Stubbs was a complete disaster in the league; because he clearly wasn't.

I’m not, I’m stating facts

HibeeHibernian4
06-12-2018, 12:15 AM
Do you think Neil Lennon has been successful as Hibernian manager?

I did not mention Alan Stubbs at any point in my opening post. I am stating facts of Lennon’s success as manager. Lennon is a winner. He is more successful than Stubbs as a manager and always will be if you are wanting to compare him to Stubbs.

I’m just making point that what he has done at Hibs has been overwhelming and that I trust him to keep achieveing.

Since you only stated Lennon's successes at Hibs, I'm going to take it that you mean "he is more successful than Stubbs as a Hibs manager", in which case that is LAUGHABLE.

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:15 AM
No they didn’t 😂😂😂 Almost back to his best. McGinn an Dylan where improving regardless of the manager.

But they did improve

madhatter
06-12-2018, 12:15 AM
I thought McGeough, Allan and McGinn all improved under Lennon. Which other players would you count as Stubbs signing? Maybe Bartley, arguably could say he has improved also

Allan improved under Lennon, I don’t agree. I felt he was better under Stubbs and influenced games a lot more. Under Lennon he didn’t have as big an influence. McGinn and McGeouch...well McGinn probably did but I think that’s more to do with McGinn maturing and just being a good player. McGeouch improved under Lennon in respect to being able to play most of the season, doubt Lennon is a qualified Doctor or Physio but sure I guess he can have it.

Bartley has improved in what aspect? He is a good player at what he does but he’s the same player we had other Stubbs. He doesn’t have another dimension to his game now...

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:16 AM
Source?

Anyone with a sensible head who can see things clearlg and not willing to blame any other outside sources. I like Neil Lennon but He’s done here. Half Butcher half Collins. He will be away the next couple of weeks. Best manager in what... is mental.

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:16 AM
But they did improve

Because of Lennon? 😂😂

Hermit Crab
06-12-2018, 12:16 AM
I 100% back him.


I can only assume you have not seen us in any of the last half a dozen games or so!

Hermit Crab
06-12-2018, 12:18 AM
Source?


Brooster is one of the most ITK posters on here, no need to question him about a source mate.

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 12:18 AM
Lennon wouldn’t have taken us out the league the seasons we had under Stubbs.

Stubbs and George Craig with the assistance of LD built a football club and an actual team! Stubbs also won us building his own team our holy grail. Lennon recently hasn’t got an actual clue when it’s csme down to bringing his own players in and developing his own team. Not one clue.

Trust Lennon? Based on what? He can’t even trust himself to come out to be interviewed. To say sorry for his actions have spoiled our season up and set us back big time.

I said 8k, got called a drama queen but that’s around the mark it was tonight. We are bottom six and it’s the managers fault and nobody else, nothing to do with Petrie. The guy thinks he’s too good for us and is being found out as tactically rotten and a piss poor man manager.

I agree 100% with your first sentence. Lack of promotion is always the stick used to beat Stubbs with but I highly doubt Lennon would have came in and turned us round in the first season to beat what was a rampant Hearts team and a Rangers team with a budget that dwarfed ours. I also doubt he would have managed to beat the Rangers team in the second season. That's not even a dig at Lennon. We were unlikely to win the league either of they two seasons no matter who was in charge.

Stubbs left Lennon a wonderful set up which he capitalised on by getting us promoted. We probably didn't improve a lot the first half of our first season back up but we were exceptional after January, lead by a magnificent midfield which was again mainly built by Stubbs (two of his players and one who used to be his player who Lennon brought back).

Since the Stubbs squad has started to break up we've started to crumble and Lennon doesn't look to have the answers.

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:19 AM
Since you only stated Lennon's successes at Hibs, I'm going to take it that you mean "he is more successful than Stubbs as a Hibs manager", in which case that is LAUGHABLE.

I clearly did not say “as Hibs manager”.

I stated “as a manager”

Neil Lennon is and always will be a more successful manager

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:19 AM
Because of Lennon? 😂😂

The players have said so themselves

Fergos
06-12-2018, 12:19 AM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

I don’t want this to be the case but my feeling is that it is unfortunately. LD has been quiet of late also, we’ll she what she is made of if she has to act as I don’t think NL will walk, despite maybe wanting too.

Id love to see him turn this around, it’s not too late but it’s heading that way.

GGTTH

we are hibs
06-12-2018, 12:19 AM
Do you think Neil Lennon has been successful as Hibernian manager?

I did not mention Alan Stubbs at any point in my opening post. I am stating facts of Lennon’s success as manager. Lennon is a winner. He is more successful than Stubbs as a manager and always will be if you are wanting to compare him to Stubbs.

I’m just making point that what he has done at Hibs has been overwhelming and that I trust him to keep achieveing.

What has Lennon done that's been so great for hibs? We finished 4th. That's it. Stubbs will be the more successful hibs manager and always will be. What makes Neil Lennon a winner at hibs? Does drawing at home to Dundee and st.mirren make him a winner? Or maybe that loss to st.johnstone makes him One? Lennon's a winner is a myth ridden cliche that gets trotted out every time people question him.

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:20 AM
1- promoted at first time of asking was actually the first time we were favourites to go up. Anything else would have been an embarrassment.

2- got us to 2 semi finals and lost both. That's hardly a great achievement is it?

3- fair enough we got into Europe in our first season back which was a very good achievement

4- best football for one half of a season. We lumped it up to Holt and Graham in the championship, then stokes first half of last and now kamberi this season.

5- 0 wins at tynecastle and his unnessecary tinkering with the team and throwing in players out the blue is a common occurrence when we go to tynecastle.

6- 2 good wins at ibrox. Is that reason enough to keep him when we can't even beat st.johnstone, Dundee and st.mirren at home in the here and now?

Are you not happy with what Hibs have achieved since Lennon has been manager? Yes or no.

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:22 AM
Brooster is one of the most ITK posters on here, no need to question him about a source mate.

It will be the unprofessional players fault though no doubt.

You don’t go against your senior players and get away with it when your other players aren’t playing for you.

we are hibs
06-12-2018, 12:22 AM
Are you not happy with what Hibs have achieved since Lennon has been manager? Yes or no.

What's he achieved? Promotion and getting us into Europe? Is that reason enough to sweep his bad signings, constant threats to leave, constant public attacks on players and our lowly league position under the carpet?

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:22 AM
Are you not happy with what Hibs have achieved since Lennon has been manager? Yes or no.

Bottom six going nowhere but down? Aye delighted.

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 12:23 AM
“Pro-Neil Lennon” fans choose to ignore his shambolic transfer dealings, that’s a fact as well, most of his signings have been garbage. Stubbs team got us promoted. In seriousness, why not just state your support without labelling other fans.

The gulf between resources when we got promoted...not being funny but I’d expect a seasoned Football Manager player to have been able to get us promoted. Some of the teams we were playing had average attendances of 1-2k...

Quality over quantity has ended up being small levels of dross. Most of our best starting line up is still Stubbs based. We seem to be playing Kamberi, MacLaren, Boyle and Horgan because we simply don’t have other players. Hence why we are also starting Shaw.

1. I don't ignore Neil's transfer dealings.
Check my postings you will in fact see me questioning some of his signings: ie Mavrias, Horgan, Nelom, Hyndeman and Agyepong

2. Stubbsy, as much as I love him, failed to take us up against mostly the same "diddy" teams, but, yes, he had an eye for a player and left a wonderful legacy for Neil Lennon.
This said, Neil Lennon managed to achieve something Stubbys couldn't - promotion as champions. Neil Lennon also managed to put Dundee United (our main championship challengers) in our back pocket and clinch promotion with room to spare. Stubbsy on the other hand could not overcome Houston's Falkirk of all clubs!

3. I do believe in quality over quantity, but we were never going to replace McGinn and McGeouch in the summer transfer window. Mallan is a quality signing (16 goals and/or assists) whose confidence and performance is suffering like a lot of his team mates at present. Don't forget that we had to drop McGinn through burn-out and indifferent performances at one time. So even the best can appear "average".

MacGruber
06-12-2018, 12:23 AM
Lennon has done really well managing and taking on the team Stubbs built. As time goes by more and more of the Stubbs team leave and its becoming Lennons task to build a team. This has so far been his failing. He is a great manager if he has the players but he isnt capable of putting together a team himself. We are going backwards.

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:24 AM
Some of the comments on this thread. It’s as if most people would have been happier if we didn’t get promoted and playing European football and instead still be getting beaten away to Dumbarton.

God help us

The Green Goblin
06-12-2018, 12:25 AM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

Wow. Coming from you....that’s a significant post. 👍 Strange times eh?

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 12:25 AM
I clearly did not say “as Hibs manager”.

I stated “as a manager”

Neil Lennon is and always will be a more successful manager

It's not really comparing like for like though is it?

Lennon walked into a job at Celtic where he pretty much couldn't fail to win numerous trophies with what was going on at Rangers. If Stubbs had walked into that job instead of Lennon then he'd be the more successful manager as he'd have won a hatful as well.

When it's came down to either manager having to actually compete with teams on similar or greater budgets then Stubbs managed to win the cup. Lennon has only ever won anything when he's had budgets numerous times any other team he's competing with.

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 12:29 AM
1. I don't ignore Neil's transfer dealings.
Check my postings you will in fact see me questioning some of his signings: ie Mavrias, Horgan, Nelom, Hyndeman and Agyepong

2. Stubbsy, as much as I love him, failed 3 times to take us up against mostly the same "diddy" teams, but, yes, he had an eye for a player and left a wonderful legacy for Neil Lennon.
This said, Neil Lennon managed to achieve something Stubbys couldn't - promotion as champions. Neil Lennon also managed to put Dundee United (our main championship challengers) in our back pocket and clinch promotion with room to spare. Stubbsy on the other hand could not overcome Houston's Falkirk of all clubs!

3. I do believe in quality over quantity, but we were never going to replace McGinn and McGeouch in the summer transfer window. Mallan is a quality signing (16 goals and/or assists) whose confidence and performance is suffering like a lot of his team mates at present. Don't forget that we had to drop McGinn through burn-out and indifferent performances at one time. So even the best can appear "average".

Point 2 - Stubbs failed twice, not three times. Nobody would have stopped Hearts in that first season including Neil Lennon. They absolutely romped to the title and we also had to compete with Rangers. Second season we were competing against a Rangers team with a much higher budget than us. He also had to deal with two runs to cup finals with the Scottish Cup run including two replays for good measure. Impossible to say but it's most likely that we wouldn't have won the league that season had Lennon been in charge either purely due to the fact Rangers had a budget probably around 5 times bigger than ours. Lennon, to his credit, won the league when he was placed against teams on probably half our budget or less. A much easier scenario than the one Stubbs was tasked with.

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:30 AM
Some of the comments on this thread. It’s as if most people would have been happier if we didn’t get promoted and playing European football and instead still be getting beating away to Dumbarton.

God help us

No I’m delighted Stubbs Builth squad to win us the Scottish Cup, the one thing I always dreamed of. I’m delighted Neil Lennon took that squad on to win an easier league but still a decent achievement but I’m overly concerned about the state the squad the team and the club going backwards as a whole is going now. Tonight was a low with a **** crowd poor performance again.

You think people would learn, remembering how **** it was under managers before we went down how crowds fell big time and strive and have passion for that not to happen again. Maybe, possibly probably I’m a drama queen but I’m scared that wlll happen again, when it shouldn’t ever again.

we are hibs
06-12-2018, 12:30 AM
Some of the comments on this thread. It’s as if most people would have been happier if we didn’t get promoted and playing European football and instead still be getting beaten away to Dumbarton.

God help us

We lost to ayr and drew with Dumbarton at home under Lennon just to remind you.

madhatter
06-12-2018, 12:34 AM
1. I don't ignore Neil's transfer dealings.
Check my postings you will in fact see me questioning some of his signings: ie Mavrias, Horgan, Nelom, Hyndeman and Agyepong

2. Stubbsy, as much as I love him, failed 3 times to take us up against mostly the same "diddy" teams, but, yes, he had an eye for a player and left a wonderful legacy for Neil Lennon.
This said, Neil Lennon managed to achieve something Stubbys couldn't - promotion as champions. Neil Lennon also managed to put Dundee United (our main championship challengers) in our back pocket and clinch promotion with room to spare. Stubbsy on the other hand could not overcome Houston's Falkirk of all clubs!

3. I do believe in quality over quantity, but we were never going to replace McGinn and McGeouch in the summer transfer window. Mallan is a quality signing (16 goals and/or assists) whose confidence and performance is suffering like a lot of his team mates at present. Don't forget that we had to drop McGinn through burn-out and indifferent performances at one time. So even the best can appear "average".

You make good points, a few I could reply to with the opposing side. Only one I think that is worthwhile is: do you think Lennon and the recruitment team have done a good job replacing McGinn and McGeouch? I don’t mean in terms of quality, I’m talking balance of the midfield. Mallan is good but he is looking awful at the moment and hasn’t contributed much from open play.

We all knew we’d miss McGinns drive in midfield, out of Hyndman, Milligan, Bartley, Mallan, Slivka...which one of them could you see driving the team forward? I see them doing a lot of sideways passing and lack of movement off the ball. We can’t play 442 or anything similar as we quite simply cannot have 2 midfielders in the centre that can contribute at both ends of the pitch. Mallan is shattered at 70mins and cannot tackle, Milligan barely makes it over the half way line before he has a nose bleed.

We had to wait on 2 work permits for 1 injured player on loan, and 1 Australian international that just looks ok, not great. We then signed a lb and rb that have collectively played 3 games I think even though our club captain is essentially finished.

Reason we cannot put a settled team is because of poor recruitment.

BILLYHIBS
06-12-2018, 12:35 AM
Point 2 - Stubbs failed twice, not three times. Nobody would have stopped Hearts in that first season including Neil Lennon. They absolutely romped to the title and we also had to compete with Rangers. Second season we were competing against a Rangers team with a much higher budget than us. He also had to deal with two runs to cup finals with the Scottish Cup run including two replays for good measure. Impossible to say but it's most likely that we wouldn't have won the league that season had Lennon been in charge either purely due to the fact Rangers had a budget probably around 5 times bigger than ours. Lennon, to his credit, won the league when he was placed against teams on probably half our budget or less. A much easier scenario than the one Stubbs was tasked with.
Good night Callum ! You are starting to give me and everyone on here a Sair heid Tomorrow is another day! 😁

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 12:36 AM
I agree, that for now at least, Lennon is still the man for the job. However, he can't live off past acomplishments, thats all very well and good but it's what he can do NOW that matters. ATM the team is performing well below par and we are struggling against teams we really should be comfortably beating, especially at home!

I stand by him now but things need to change and FAST or we are in danger of undoing all the progress we've made in the last 4 years and finding ourselves back to being a mediocre bottom 6 team.

I totally agree that he can't live off past accomplishments, and I too as one of his staunchest admirers have limited patience.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based mostly on what he has done for our club these past 2 glorious seasons and how he rescued and revived our season by his transfer dealings in the last January transfer window and by the exhilarating football he had us playing.

I just feel that there are some posters attacking our manager prematurely, with some unbalanced and/or exaggerated accusations - in some cases deliberately overlooking the aforementioned.

For me, sacking Neil Lennon at this stage would be utter folly and set us back big time and risk a definite bottom 6 finish.

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:39 AM
Good night Callum ! You are starting to give me and everyone on here a Sair heid Tomorrow is another day! 😁

He’s spot on. None of it can be argued.

The 90+2
06-12-2018, 12:41 AM
I totally agree that he can't live off past accomplishments, and I too as one of his staunchest admirers have limited patience.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based mostly on what he has done for our club these past 2 glorious seasons and how he rescued and revived our season by his transfer dealings in the last January transfer window and by the exhilarating football he had us playing.

I just feel that there are some posters attacking our manager prematurely, with some unbalanced and/or exaggerated accusations - in some cases deliberately overlooking the aforementioned.

For me, sacking Neil Lennon at this stage would be utter folly and set us back big time and risk a definite bottom 6 finish.

Can I ask when does premature become ok? Because right now in the present it’s an absolute shambles from game to game since October and by that, since October it’s got more and more of a shambles with every game.

matty_f
06-12-2018, 12:41 AM
I don't think Lennon trusts himself.

Team selections are bizarre at the moment with players doing in and out of the squad, players getting a game here it there bit without getting a run in the team in many cases.

It's no coincidence we're playing like a team of strangers, were going with new midfields, new defences, and new attacks game to game.

In fact, it seems you're only guaranteed a game if your Boyle, Malam, Ambrose or Bogdan.

BILLYHIBS
06-12-2018, 12:44 AM
He’s spot on. None of it can be argued.

Maybe so but he has hijacked every thread and co -cost another to be closed down I do not know where he gets the energy

madhatter
06-12-2018, 12:45 AM
I totally agree that he can't live off past accomplishments, and I too as one of his staunchest admirers have limited patience.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based mostly on what he has done for our club these past 2 glorious seasons and how he rescued and revived our season by his transfer dealings in the last January transfer window and by the exhilarating football he had us playing.

I just feel that there are some posters attacking our manager prematurely, with some unbalanced and/or exaggerated accusations - in some cases deliberately overlooking the aforementioned.

For me, sacking Neil Lennon at this stage would be utter folly and set us back big time and risk a definite bottom 6 finish.

When would sacking Neil Lennon make sense? Relegation battle? Current form and team attitude suggests we’ll be hoping Dundee and St Mirren start to struggle big time. Nothing seems right at the moment. Fans aren’t looking forward to matches as we are expecting a struggle now, Lennon isn’t doing interviews, players are visibly not doing their jobs now (Parker was right: us, the punters could see the players not doing their jobs). Everything stinks now. He deserves a chance to turn it around, of course he does but where is the line drawn?

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 12:46 AM
Maybe so but he has hijacked every thread and co -cost another to be closed down I do not know where he gets the energy

I’ve already admitted to de-railing the deleted thread. I’m not quite sure where I’ve “hijacked” any other thread, they’ve all been kept pretty much on topic?

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 12:46 AM
How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall. I could even accept results not going our way if we were playing well but we are turning in utterly woeful performances week in and week out to go along with the crap results.

The players undoubtedly need to shoulder a chunk of the blame but so does the manager. It's his team, his players, his selections and his tactics that are playing a part in the shambles this season is becoming.

For me, the "slump" has gone on too long already, but I am prepared to accept a continuation (with the odd decent result/ie draws against the big guns) through the rest of December, just so long as our club gives Neil (assuming he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) significant sums to secure better quality players, maybe even a high profile signing in the January transfer window - hopefully kick-starting our season and sending us on the kind of run we all enjoyed last season.

I want to give Neil Lennon every opportunity to fix something that even his staunchest supporters can see is currently and clearly broken.

BILLYHIBS
06-12-2018, 12:47 AM
I’ve already admitted to de-railing the deleted thread. I’m not quite sure where I’ve “hijacked” any other thread, they’ve all been kept pretty much on topic?
You crack on mate 😁

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:49 AM
We lost to ayr and drew with Dumbarton at home under Lennon just to remind you.

I’m just happy we got promoted

Hibeesmad
06-12-2018, 12:51 AM
Let’s hope we beat Hamilton on Saturday :)

madhatter
06-12-2018, 12:54 AM
For me, the "slump" has gone on too long already, but I am prepared to accept a continuation (with the odd decent result/ie draws against the big guns) through the rest of December, just so long as our club gives Neil (assuming he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) significant sums to secure better quality players, maybe even a high profile signing in the January transfer window - hopefully kick-starting our season and sending us on the kind of run we all enjoyed last season.

I want to give Neil Lennon every opportunity to fix something that even his staunchest supporters can see is currently and clearly broken.

What if Lennon signs expensive duds? Even if they are cheap, they might get a 3 year contract and then we are stuck with them. That’s my problem, the “another transfer window to fix it” is not a model I want at Hibs. I want us to be progressing. We’ve declined massively, current football reminds me of Butcher. We are also signing the type of players I’d rather we avoid - 30+ year olds, players who have been out the game for 6months, loans that aren’t just supplementing the squad but pretty much only option we have (MacLaren).

Again, how did we sign Allan, Fyvie, McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship? Something strange about that, we signed talented young players who excelled. Now we are signing seasoned pros or rejects (as Lennon has put it).

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 01:21 AM
Point 2 - Stubbs failed twice, not three times. Nobody would have stopped Hearts in that first season including Neil Lennon. They absolutely romped to the title and we also had to compete with Rangers. Second season we were competing against a Rangers team with a much higher budget than us. He also had to deal with two runs to cup finals with the Scottish Cup run including two replays for good measure. Impossible to say but it's most likely that we wouldn't have won the league that season had Lennon been in charge either purely due to the fact Rangers had a budget probably around 5 times bigger than ours. Lennon, to his credit, won the league when he was placed against teams on probably half our budget or less. A much easier scenario than the one Stubbs was tasked with.

My apologies for the "3 times" comment: now since removed.
But the point of Stubbsy not getting us promoted - especially through the play offs, still stands.
I do agree that we were up against it with both Hearts and Sevco for clinching automatic promotion, but there is no excuse for the play off defeats.

To say what Neil Lennon would have done under similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous and takes us off into the realms of mere conjecture.

HibeeHibernian4
06-12-2018, 01:27 AM
My apologies for the "3 times" comment: now since removed.
But the point of Stubbsy not getting us promoted - especially through the play offs, still stands.
I do agree that we were up against it with both Hearts and Sevco for clinching automatic promotion, but there is no excuse for the play off defeats.

To say what Neil Lennon would have done under similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous and takes us off into the realms of mere conjecture.

I think Lennon might have got us up in 2016 through the play-offs, but he would not have won got us to both cup finals in the same season as Stubbs did. And, in the long term, winning the Scottish Cup will forever be what is remembered and is the most important moment in our club's recent history.

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 01:36 AM
When would sacking Neil Lennon make sense? Relegation battle? Current form and team attitude suggests we’ll be hoping Dundee and St Mirren start to struggle big time. Nothing seems right at the moment. Fans aren’t looking forward to matches as we are expecting a struggle now, Lennon isn’t doing interviews, players are visibly not doing their jobs now (Parker was right: us, the punters could see the players not doing their jobs). Everything stinks now. He deserves a chance to turn it around, of course he does but where is the line drawn?


I would like to see him( providing he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) be given significant funds in the January window to secure "better quality" players, especially in midfield and upfront, and to be given to the end of the season with a revamped squad before his performance as manager is assessed by Leeann and co.

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 02:08 AM
What if Lennon signs expensive duds? Even if they are cheap, they might get a 3 year contract and then we are stuck with them. That’s my problem, the “another transfer window to fix it” is not a model I want at Hibs. I want us to be progressing. We’ve declined massively, current football reminds me of Butcher. We are also signing the type of players I’d rather we avoid - 30+ year olds, players who have been out the game for 6months, loans that aren’t just supplementing the squad but pretty much only option we have (MacLaren).

Again, how did we sign Allan, Fyvie, McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship? Something strange about that, we signed talented young players who excelled. Now we are signing seasoned pros or rejects (as Lennon has put it).

And what if he signs expensive successes and signs them on 3 year contracts? We're back into the land of conjecture with this kind of thinking. The fact is that none of us know in advance how any signing will turn out. We can play the pessimist or the optimist but can't predict the future.

I respect where you are coming from re" another transfer window to fix things", but, for me, Neil Lennon is best placed at this moment in time to know the players at his disposal and the type he needs to replace them. I'd be very surprised if Leeann and co are not thinking along exactly the same lines and keen to ensure they support him all they can.
A new manager is simply coming into the mix completely blind folded with the expectations of the supporters to get it right immediately - This scenario raises the spectre of Butcher all over.

California-Hibs
06-12-2018, 03:37 AM
Since you only stated Lennon's successes at Hibs, I'm going to take it that you mean "he is more successful than Stubbs as a Hibs manager", in which case that is LAUGHABLE.

Stubbs: 2 failed promotion attempts
Scottish Cup

Lennon: Promotion first time
4th place SPFL finish, unlucky not to be 2nd
European football, of which he progressed us 2 rounds.
Much higher win percentage and one of the highest ever for a Hibs manager.


Absolutely love Stubbs for delivering the Scottish cup but I'd much rather, and am much happier, with Lennon than him.

HibeeHibernian4
06-12-2018, 03:53 AM
Stubbs: 2 failed promotion attempts
Scottish Cup

Lennon: Promotion first time
4th place SPFL finish, unlucky not to be 2nd
European football, of which he progressed us 2 rounds.
Much higher win percentage and one of the highest ever for a Hibs manager.

Absolutely love Stubbs for delivering the Scottish cup but I'd much rather, and am much happier, with Lennon than him.

That's so unbelievably arbitrary.

Stubbs' seasons were 'failed' promotion attempts as we were kept down by teams - Hearts in 2014/15, Rangers in 2015/16 - who outperformed and/or had bigger budgets than us. The one letdown in Stubbs' handling of the league was that he finished third behind Falkirk in 2015/16. This was more than made up for by the fact that he led us to both domestic cup finals, an achievement which no other Hibs manager has ever replicated. After suffering the setbacks of the League Cup and Play-Off heartbreak, he led us to our greatest ever day on the 21st May 2016, ending 114 years of torment and winning the Scottish Cup. It revolutionised our club and much of what Lennon has right now/had (the 13k season ticket base, the midfield trio of McGinn, McGeouch and Allan, the funds to sign players) can be attributed directly to the work of Alan Stubbs.

Onto Lennon, promotion first time, in a league where we were odds on favourites to win it, and did so, not at all convincingly I might add. He got one more point (71) in total than Stubbs did in both his seasons (70) with much, much tougher competition, with similarly embarrassing slip ups at home to Ayr, away to bottom club St Mirren, at home to Queen of the South in the League Cup (we'll get to his substandard cup record in a minute).

"4th place SPFL finish, unlucky not to be 2nd". Right, so I'm going to say "Alan Stubbs: 3rd placed SPFL Championship finish, unlucky not to be 1st", and that just absolves Stubbs of finishing 3rd, does it? The fact we didn't finish second had nothing to do with luck, it was down to the first half of the season not being good enough results wise, and the team choking at Tynecastle in the penultimate game when all we needed was a draw. Lennon was too ignorant to actually realise that a draw was all we needed, and admitted so after the match.

European football, which Stubbs also delivered, and then left before he had the chance to negotiate us through any rounds. Had he, he'd have been tasked with taking Hibs past Brondby, a much more difficult prospect than Faroese trawlermen and Asteras Tripolis.

Lennon's win percentage at Hibs is 48.7%.
Stubbs' win percentage at Hibs was 58.0%.

Lennon's cup record is also absolutely average in comparison to Stubbs, who took us to (in succession), a League Cup Quarter Final, a Scottish Cup Semi Final, a League Cup Final and then a victorious Scottish Cup Final. Lennon better hope - if he's still here - that he can deliver a visit to Hampden at the very least, because we're not going to have much to play for in the league at this rate unless things improve and fast.

HibeeHibernian4
06-12-2018, 04:00 AM
To clarify my position on this, when things are going well for Hibs, Neil Lennon is a better manager at Hibs than Alan Stubbs ever was. Of that there is no doubt for me.

However, Stubbs could bring Hibs back from the dead in a way that Lennon seems incapable of. When we lost four in a row in the Championship in February/March 2016, and then were cruelly beaten in the League Cup Final, what did Stubbs do? He took us up to Inverness for the Scottish Cup replay three days later and got us through.

Under Lennon, before this dire run, we've had one poor spell last winter (where we lost to St Johnstone, drew with Accies, lost to Rangers and lost 4-1 at Aberdeen in the space of about six games), and it took a winter break and a transfer window for Hibs to properly recover.

I hope I'm wrong, I would love to be proved wrong, but I do not see Lennon pulling Hibs back from this.

Edit: What definitely doesn't help, going forward, is a select few fans on here sticking their head in the sand and insisting that Neil Lennon has a winning mentality despite very little evidence suggesting he does. A 'winner' would've got us to a cup final by now at the very least, surely?

Ronniekirk
06-12-2018, 07:42 AM
Let’s hope we beat Hamilton on Saturday :)

We hoped we would beat St Mirren The reality at present is Teams will relish playing us as we have lost form and don't seem to be able to do anything about it Gives other teams a liftIts also a Plastic Pitch and Boyle in particular doesn't play well on those , some players carrying knocks don't like playing on those surfaces
We really are struggling at the moment one win to my mind isn't going to suddenly change that The players had thier clear the air chat and it's not worked We are chopping and changing team each week as clearly too many players not doing it and Theanagement Yeam have gone Public with this
But yes all we can do is Hope that we turn this Slump around sooner than later as Celtic and Rangers won't.belooking to do us any favours apart from turn us over

pacoluna
06-12-2018, 07:50 AM
Why the **** is Stubbs still getting mentioned in posts. FS he got sacked from bloody st mirren, your a like a bunch of little bairns. People are concerned with Lennon and recent performances that's understandable but gtf with the chronic mentioning of bloody Stubbs.

SirDavidsNapper
06-12-2018, 08:06 AM
Why the **** is Stubbs still getting mentioned in posts. FS he got sacked from bloody st mirren, your a like a bunch of little bairns. People are concerned with Lennon and recent performances that's understandable but gtf with the chronic mentioning of bloody Stubbs.

Couldn't agree more. Couldn't get us promoted and sacked from everywhere else. Rather stick with Lennon if i had a choice between both.

we are hibs
06-12-2018, 08:38 AM
Why the **** is Stubbs still getting mentioned in posts. FS he got sacked from bloody st mirren, your a like a bunch of little bairns. People are concerned with Lennon and recent performances that's understandable but gtf with the chronic mentioning of bloody Stubbs.

Did Stubbs pump your missus or something? You utterly despise him and it's laughable and embarrassing.

Northernhibee
06-12-2018, 08:49 AM
Did Stubbs pump your missus or something? You utterly despise him and it's laughable and embarrassing.

Stubbs was in a much tougher league and despite the fatigue from getting to two cup finals and a horrendous injury list, got only 1pt less than our title winning season.

Both NL and AS picked their jobs down south badly and both were catastrophic.

St Mirren - well, who knows. I don’t know who’s have gone in and met the expectations of their fans. I think Stubbs, Holden and Doolan were a great team and not having the others might not have worked the same.

I don’t think there’s nearly as much between the two managers as people are making out.

pacoluna
06-12-2018, 09:14 AM
Did Stubbs pump your missus or something? You utterly despise him and it's laughable and embarrassing.

No as mentioned before he got sacked by Rotherham and st mirren why the hell anyone would ever even consider him for the role again is mental. It's so chronic and boring the constant chat about him coming back it's like Riordan x1000000. ps I don't despise him.

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 09:16 AM
No as mentioned before he got sacked by Rotherham and st mirren why the hell anyone would ever even consider him for the role again is mental. It's so chronic and boring the constant chat about him coming back it's like Riordan x1000000.

Lennon got sacked by Bolton and the way things are going he will get sacked by Hibs.

pacoluna
06-12-2018, 09:18 AM
Lennon got sacked by Bolton and the way things are going he will get sacked by Hibs.

He's never been sacked by bloody st mirren though.

Northernhibee
06-12-2018, 09:22 AM
He's never been sacked by bloody st mirren though.

I hear the sound of a barrel being scraped...

Nearly everything Lennon has won as a manager has been with the biggest budget in the league. The careers of the two are comparable in many ways, but Stubbs has a SC under his belt.

pacoluna
06-12-2018, 09:29 AM
I hear the sound of a barrel being scraped...

Nearly everything Lennon has won as a manager has been with the biggest budget in the league. The careers of the two are comparable in many ways, but Stubbs has a SC under his belt.
It must have be an extremely difficult couple of seasons for the likes of you even last season, people like yourself couldn't wait to jump on Lennon's back because you have this endless need for the return of stubbs because he won us the Scottish cup. As obvious and predictable as can be, we go though a sticky patch and the name Stubbs is mentioned faster than a drop of a hat. it's pathetic. Criticize Lennon all you want and rightly so ATM but don't use it as an platform for Stubbs to come back it's pathetic.

IGRIGI
06-12-2018, 09:33 AM
Stubbs had us finish behind Falkirk, Falkirk FFS.

Anyone that wants a return to that wants their ****ing heid examined.

Hermit Crab
06-12-2018, 09:38 AM
Stubbs had us finish behind Falkirk, Falkirk FFS.

Anyone that wants a return to that wants their ****ing heid examined.


Aye and look at Falkirk now. 2nd bottom of the championship, -12 goal difference, well and truly spanked out the Scottish cup 4-2 by Stenhousemuir. You don't think we are better than them now?

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 09:42 AM
Stubbs had us finish behind Falkirk, Falkirk FFS.

Anyone that wants a return to that wants their ****ing heid examined.

Lennon has us behind Livingston. Even more of a diddy club than Falkirk. Falkirk were a decent side and picked up nearly as many points (possibly even the same?) as Lennons promotion side did in what was a more difficult league. Let’s not dress them up as utter dross because they weren’t that season.

Northernhibee
06-12-2018, 09:44 AM
It must have be an extremely difficult couple of seasons for the likes of you even last season, people like yourself couldn't wait to jump on Lennon's back because you have this endless need for the return of stubbs because he won us the Scottish cup. As obvious and predictable as can be, we go though a sticky patch and the name Stubbs is mentioned faster than a drop of a hat. it's pathetic. Criticize Lennon all you want and rightly so ATM but don't use it as an platform for Stubbs to come back it's pathetic.

Not as pathetic as constantly having a go at a Scottish cup winning club legend to make up for Lennons many shortfalls, of which those of us who’ve dared mention them (and been proven right) have gotten all sorts of stick.

Slagging off Stubbs is not a defence of Lennon outside his excellent one half of a season.

Stuart93
06-12-2018, 09:45 AM
Lennon has us behind Livingston. Even more of a diddy club than Falkirk. Falkirk were a decent side and picked up nearly as many points (possibly even the same?) as Lennons promotion side did in what was a more difficult league. Let’s not dress them up as utter dross because they weren’t that season.

Stubbs was also juggling to cup runs at the time.

Allan45
06-12-2018, 09:45 AM
I'm backing the manager, I am unhappy at present with our current run of form over the past 2 months like everyone else. Lets hope that Neil has not lost the dressing room (my feeling, he has) and the players can pick up their confidence and play as a team again.

We need a win on Saturday and have some tough games this month, we have injury concerns like most teams and have a really good squad of players, a win could get us out of this very poor run, I never seen this coming, as we were doing really well until now.

Its ridiculous that some fans are calling for Neil Lennons head, lets wait until the end of January and see where we are. Its been a great time to be a Hibs fan over the past 3 years, and we had an excellent season last year, If things start to tick, and the dressing room has not been lost, we can get out of this hole and start to play good football again.

I'm right behind the manager and squad.

pacoluna
06-12-2018, 09:49 AM
Not as pathetic as constantly having a go at a Scottish cup winning club legend to make up for Lennons many shortfalls, of which those of us who’ve dared mention them (and been proven right) have gotten all sorts of stick.

Slagging off Stubbs is not a defence of Lennon outside his excellent one half of a season.

Who's having a go at stubbs? I'm having a go at the likes of posters like you who keep on mentioning him when there's absolutely no reason to do so.

Northernhibee
06-12-2018, 09:51 AM
Who's having a go at stubbs? I'm having a go at the likes of posters like you who keep on mentioning him when there's absolutely no reason to do so.

As soon as there’s justified criticism of Lennon the same arguments pop up on the board - but but but Falkirk/Butcher/Calderwood etc.

we are hibs
06-12-2018, 10:49 AM
No as mentioned before he got sacked by Rotherham and st mirren why the hell anyone would ever even consider him for the role again is mental. It's so chronic and boring the constant chat about him coming back it's like Riordan x1000000. ps I don't despise him.


Who has actually said he should cone back? All that's being said is he signed better players for hibs and done more for the club than Lennon has or will.


Stubbs had us finish behind Falkirk, Falkirk FFS.

Anyone that wants a return to that wants their ****ing heid examined.

Bit hard to return to that when we are a league above them isn't it? What are your thoughts on us currently languishing behind Livingston in the league? A smaller club than falkirk btw

The Green Goblin
06-12-2018, 11:21 AM
I'm backing the manager, I am unhappy at present with our current run of form over the past 2 months like everyone else. Lets hope that Neil has not lost the dressing room (my feeling, he has) and the players can pick up their confidence and play as a team again.

We need a win on Saturday and have some tough games this month, we have injury concerns like most teams and have a really good squad of players, a win could get us out of this very poor run, I never seen this coming, as we were doing really well until now.

Its ridiculous that some fans are calling for Neil Lennons head, lets wait until the end of January and see where we are. Its been a great time to be a Hibs fan over the past 3 years, and we had an excellent season last year, If things start to tick, and the dressing room has not been lost, we can get out of this hole and start to play good football again.

I'm right behind the manager and squad.

End of January will be far too late if it doesn’t pick up. And when we get there, and if we are still struggling, we’ll be hearing “ah but who better to get us out of this than someone with Lennon’s experience and mentality”. This is not a go at you btw. My take fwiw is that something is clearly not right. I think this goes beyond the manager or individual players in terms of the approach that is required. If players aren’t being professional and doing their best, then they have to go. If the manager isn’t up for the fight, then he should go too (note: IF). Nobody is bigger than the club and nobody’s individual merits or otherwise are more important than the club’s progress, success and survival.

silverhibee
06-12-2018, 11:27 AM
Who's having a go at stubbs? I'm having a go at the likes of posters like you who keep on mentioning him when there's absolutely no reason to do so.

Just like you mentioned Riordan when there was no need to. :greengrin

BILLYHIBS
06-12-2018, 11:38 AM
Lose on Saturday and I think Leeann will have a decision to make

Do we stick with Lenny and give him our transfer kitty to blow in January or do we cut him loose?

Leeann is a hard nosed business woman and I think she can be quite ruthless if she has to

She will always put the club first

One Day Soon
06-12-2018, 11:42 AM
End of January will be far too late if it doesn’t pick up. And when we get there, and if we are still struggling, we’ll be hearing “ah but who better to get us out of this than someone with Lennon’s experience and mentality”. This is not a go at you btw. My take fwiw is that something is clearly not right. I think this goes beyond the manager or individual players in terms of the approach that is required. If players aren’t being professional and doing their best, then they have to go. If the manager isn’t up for the fight, then he should go too (note: IF). Nobody is bigger than the club and nobody’s individual merits or otherwise are more important than the club’s progress, success and survival.

This is absolutely correct and shouldn't need stating. The question is, what exactly is, or has been, going wrong?

HUTCHYHIBBY
06-12-2018, 11:43 AM
How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall.

Very much this.

JeMeSouviens
06-12-2018, 11:51 AM
Lose on Saturday and I think Leeann will have a decision to make

Do we stick with Lenny and give him our transfer kitty to blow in January or do we cut him loose?

Leeann is a hard nosed business woman and I think she can be quite ruthless if she has to

She will always put the club first

I sort of agree but I think making the decision based on Saturday's result is just stupid. Dempster and the rest of the board should be well aware of exactly what's going on around the club. Either there are problems which NL is doing the right things to fix and they'll see that, or he's not in which case they have to decide if he's going to or not.

emerald green
06-12-2018, 11:55 AM
This is absolutely correct and shouldn't need stating. The question is, what exactly is, or has been, going wrong?

:agree: That's the 64,000 dollar question.

BILLYHIBS
06-12-2018, 12:11 PM
I sort of agree but I think making the decision based on Saturday's result is just stupid. Dempster and the rest of the board should be well aware of exactly what's going on around the club. Either there are problems which NL is doing the right things to fix and they'll see that, or he's not in which case they have to decide if he's going to or not.

We have three points from twenty one lose on Saturday three from twenty four relegation standard maybe not so stupid

Maybe it will be time for everyone to wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late

JeMeSouviens
06-12-2018, 12:21 PM
We have three points from twenty one lose on Saturday three from twenty four relegation standard maybe not so stupid

Maybe it will be time for everyone to wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late

Stupid too strong a word, sorry. But football is a strange game. NL could have totally chucked it and we could still scrape a win on Saturday. Or NL could have renewed determination and laser focus, the team could come storming out on Saturday and lose 1-0 to a fluke goal or a crap ref or whatever.

The Harp
06-12-2018, 12:36 PM
Who'd be a football manager eh? Neil with his high profile was widely regarded as the best thing to happen to us in years. Now he's being castigated for poor signings, not taking interviews, being cowardly etc. Whats that old fickle fitba fans quote again?!?
I'd imagine those of us of a certain vintage have seen much worse than this poor run we're on at present. Iv'e no doubt Neil will turn this around, given the chance. Also, little doubt LD will have been monitoring the situation for a while now and will have plans to implement should the worst happens and the slump doesn't end at Hamilton on Sat.

Beefster
06-12-2018, 12:36 PM
Unfortunately he has lost the dressing room with his eratic behaviours. The end is nigh.

If that's the case then he will have to go soon but the players involved can go **** themselves. The last time a bunch of spoilt ********s masquerading as Hibs players downed tools we ended up spending three years in the Championship. The time before that, we ended up with a succession of pish managers.

matty_f
06-12-2018, 12:38 PM
If that's the case then he will have to go soon but the players involved can go **** themselves. The last time a bunch of spoilt ********s masquerading as Hibs players downed tools we ended up spending three years in the Championship. The time before that, we ended up with a succession of pish managers.

I would certainly hope that Hanlon and Stevenson, who were part of the relegation team, recognise the signs and pull up the rest of the players to let them know in no uncertain terms, that downing tools is unforgivable.

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 12:43 PM
Who'd be a football manager eh? Neil with his high profile was widely regarded as the best thing to happen to us in years. Now he's being castigated for poor signings, not taking interviews, being cowardly etc. Whats that old fickle fitba fans quote again?!?
I'd imagine those of us of a certain vintage have seen much worse than this poor run we're on at present. Iv'e no doubt Neil will turn this around, given the chance. Also, little doubt LD will have been monitoring the situation for a while now and will have plans to implement should the worst happens and the slump doesn't end at Hamilton on Sat.

Obviously we all see things differently but I just cant see anything that leaves people in no doubt that this will be turned round by Lennon. He might well do it and hopefully he does starting Saturday but I just don’t know what people are seeing to be quite so confident of that.

Northernhibee
06-12-2018, 12:50 PM
If that's the case then he will have to go soon but the players involved can go **** themselves. The last time a bunch of spoilt ********s masquerading as Hibs players downed tools we ended up spending three years in the Championship. The time before that, we ended up with a succession of pish managers.

“The players involved can go **** themselves”. Terry Butcher mentality.

Something clearly is wrong and contented cows produce more milk in ANY work environment. Being dropped every second game, constant change of tactics, being hung out to dry in post match interviews- it’s the sort of thing that would get anyone down and downing of tools isn’t a conscious decision, it’s the way the human mind often works if you don’t think there’s likely to be a chance to change things.

Take Steve Clarke for example - smaller budget, lost Mulumbu but is a great man manager and top of the league. Players happy, as much continuity in the team as possible and results come from happy, motivated players.

We’ve had run ins on this before and I admire your staunch defence of him but ffs, stop looking at the smaller Neil Lennon picture and look at the bigger picture of the club. If one man is dragging the dressing room down and it then turns out they can’t turn it round - player or manager - there has to be a point that they are to detriment of our club which will ALWAYS be the most important thing.

BILLYHIBS
06-12-2018, 01:04 PM
Stupid too strong a word, sorry. But football is a strange game. NL could have totally chucked it and we could still scrape a win on Saturday. Or NL could have renewed determination and laser focus, the team could come storming out on Saturday and lose 1-0 to a fluke goal or a crap ref or whatever.
His body language last night in the dug out head bowed unshaven tells me he has chucked it even his trusted side kick Gary Parker is struggling to smoothe over the cracks there is something not right at Easter Road talk of him telling the players he is off in the Changing Room after St Johnstone and Kilmarnock do not fill me with much confidence either

CLASS OF 72 -73
06-12-2018, 01:07 PM
Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

Stubbs had a chance to get into the English Championship and then possibly to the EPL but the worst choice of team so he was on a hiding to at nothing at Rotherham who had the smallest budget and given no time. As for St Mirren it was a disgrace how he was treated.

One Day Soon
06-12-2018, 02:11 PM
If that's the case then he will have to go soon but the players involved can go **** themselves. The last time a bunch of spoilt ********s masquerading as Hibs players downed tools we ended up spending three years in the Championship. The time before that, we ended up with a succession of pish managers.


Absolutely correct. I remember it all vividly and I never, ever want us to go back to that again. IF he's lost the dressing room then he's got a very limited time to either get it back or leave. IF.

But any player downing tools - ANY of them - can GTF as far as I'm concerned.

calumhibee1
06-12-2018, 02:13 PM
Absolutely correct. I remember it all vividly and I never, ever want us to go back to that again. IF he's lost the dressing room then he's got a very limited time to either get it back or leave. IF.

But any player downing tools - ANY of them - can GTF as far as I'm concerned.

Thing is though I don’t think anyone will ever win a changing room back after losing it. IF he has lost it then we’d be wasting our time trying to allow him to rectify it. As would any club who’s manager has lost the dressing room, not just us.

One Day Soon
06-12-2018, 02:24 PM
Thing is though I don’t think anyone will ever win a changing room back after losing it. IF he has lost it then we’d be wasting our time trying to allow him to rectify it. As would any club who’s manager has lost the dressing room, not just us.


Probably correct but it would depend upon why and which players are the problem. Getting rid of Stokes and his disruptive effect on others seemed to improve things. That's IF the dressing room issue is the case.

I'm not sure he has lost the dressing room, it looks a lot more like they have all pished the confidence out of themselves and the question is how do you get that back. For a team that some are arguing may have downed tools we actually had passages last night that weren't too bad and certainly where the players looked like they had appetite, which is what makes me think the dressing room angle isn't it.

In fact the more I think about it the more I think the contrast between the last seven games and prior to that has been a hellish combination of:

injuries and/or lack of match fitness
inconsistent team selection and formation (whether forced or by choice)
loss of key player confidence/form (Kamberi the most obvious example)
the Tynecastle incident acting as a distraction for Lennon at the worst possible time
genuinely bad luck
meeting teams coming into some seriously good form - eg St Johnstone and Kilmarnock
slapstick defensive error goals

If I'm right then any kind of a win would do wonders. If I'm not it's a whole other scenario...

BOB MARLEYS DUG
06-12-2018, 02:48 PM
Mark Atko: “ I’ve not heard of any unrest in the dressing-room. The players got a 45-minute grilling after the match, but Lennon is respected by the squad. They want to do well for him. The bigger question is whether that continues if the bad results keep coming ... “

Springbank
06-12-2018, 03:00 PM
Who'd be a football manager eh? Neil with his high profile was widely regarded as the best thing to happen to us in years. Now he's being castigated for poor signings, not taking interviews, being cowardly etc. Whats that old fickle fitba fans quote again?!?
I'd imagine those of us of a certain vintage have seen much worse than this poor run we're on at present. Iv'e no doubt Neil will turn this around, given the chance. Also, little doubt LD will have been monitoring the situation for a while now and will have plans to implement should the worst happens and the slump doesn't end at Hamilton on Sat.

complacent AF

unless he has a serious shake, lennon will be heavily outshone by Steven Gerrard in a couple of weeks time

the away end doing aeroplanes & giving him it tight

right now he gives me zéro confidence he can prépare à team to compete at a time when kilmarnock are top of the league,

pacoluna
06-12-2018, 03:28 PM
Probably correct but it would depend upon why and which players are the problem. Getting rid of Stokes and his disruptive effect on others seemed to improve things. That's IF the dressing room issue is the case.

I'm not sure he has lost the dressing room, it looks a lot more like they have all pished the confidence out of themselves and the question is how do you get that back. For a team that some are arguing may have downed tools we actually had passages last night that weren't too bad and certainly where the players looked like they had appetite, which is what makes me think the dressing room angle isn't it.

In fact the more I think about it the more I think the contrast between the last seven games and prior to that has been a hellish combination of:

injuries and/or lack of match fitness
inconsistent team selection and formation (whether forced or by choice)
loss of key player confidence/form (Kamberi the most obvious example)
the Tynecastle incident acting as a distraction for Lennon at the worst possible time
genuinely bad luck
meeting teams coming into some seriously good form - eg St Johnstone and Kilmarnock
slapstick defensive error goals

If I'm right then any kind of a win would do wonders. If I'm not it's a whole other scenario...
Meeting teams in good form.. you mention st Johnstone and rightly so. Would have been easy for them to sack Wright after their more than sticky spell during Jan/Feb though. Just shows you that the simple conclusion of getting ride isn't always the correct decision.

The Harp
06-12-2018, 04:02 PM
complacent AF

unless he has a serious shake, lennon will be heavily outshone by Steven Gerrard in a couple of weeks time

the away end doing aeroplanes & giving him it tight

right now he gives me zéro confidence he can prépare à team to compete at a time when kilmarnock are top of the league,

No, not complacent at all. I'm as concerned as anyone at our recent slump.
Were you happy with NL's appointment and with the performances of the team prior to this period without a win?
How many of us haven't had a time when things have gone wrong for us in the workplace? Pretty damn few I would imagine.
Some of us just want to give him the chance to get us back on track, imho he has the ability to do that.

Beefster
06-12-2018, 06:14 PM
“The players involved can go **** themselves”. Terry Butcher mentality.

Something clearly is wrong and contented cows produce more milk in ANY work environment. Being dropped every second game, constant change of tactics, being hung out to dry in post match interviews- it’s the sort of thing that would get anyone down and downing of tools isn’t a conscious decision, it’s the way the human mind often works if you don’t think there’s likely to be a chance to change things.

Take Steve Clarke for example - smaller budget, lost Mulumbu but is a great man manager and top of the league. Players happy, as much continuity in the team as possible and results come from happy, motivated players.

We’ve had run ins on this before and I admire your staunch defence of him but ffs, stop looking at the smaller Neil Lennon picture and look at the bigger picture of the club. If one man is dragging the dressing room down and it then turns out they can’t turn it round - player or manager - there has to be a point that they are to detriment of our club which will ALWAYS be the most important thing.

You’ve been a bit mean to me on many occasions but I think comparing my mindset to that of Terry Butcher might be the meanest yet. Can you not go back to calling me a **** or a ****er?

Incidentally, most of my posts about Lennon are a response to the over the top opinions of him (on both sides of the extremes tbf). Recently, I’ve posted that he’s ‘fine’, ‘not as clever as he thinks he is’ and needs to go soon.

Ronniekirk
06-12-2018, 06:26 PM
Obviously we all see things differently but I just cant see anything that leaves people in no doubt that this will be turned round by Lennon. He might well do it and hopefully he does starting Saturday but I just don’t know what people are seeing to be quite so confident of that.

I didn't think we eould fail to beat St Mirren so I don't think anyone can really be that confident now if they are being honest We are hoping something changes but the Msnagement Yesm are now getting exacerbated so clearly don't know how to sort things

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 07:01 PM
You make good points, a few I could reply to with the opposing side. Only one I think that is worthwhile is: do you think Lennon and the recruitment team have done a good job replacing McGinn and McGeouch? I don’t mean in terms of quality, I’m talking balance of the midfield. Mallan is good but he is looking awful at the moment and hasn’t contributed much from open play.

We all knew we’d miss McGinns drive in midfield, out of Hyndman, Milligan, Bartley, Mallan, Slivka...which one of them could you see driving the team forward? I see them doing a lot of sideways passing and lack of movement off the ball. We can’t play 442 or anything similar as we quite simply cannot have 2 midfielders in the centre that can contribute at both ends of the pitch. Mallan is shattered at 70mins and cannot tackle, Milligan barely makes it over the half way line before he has a nose bleed.

We had to wait on 2 work permits for 1 injured player on loan, and 1 Australian international that just looks ok, not great. We then signed a lb and rb that have collectively played 3 games I think even though our club captain is essentially finished.

Reason we cannot put a settled team is because of poor recruitment.

1. I am the first to concede that we have not replaced the midfield balance we had last season. Neil Lennon himself has as good as said that.

2. Unfortunately, we do not have a midfielder on our books who can, indeed, wants to "drive us forward" - thus my emphasis on Neil Lennon getting such a player (or two) in the January window

3. I have also been vocal about "poor recruitment" and have been as frustrated as anyone re signing crocks and has-beens (Whittaker) and players who can't get near the first team.

I balance this against Neil Lennon having a successful and season-changing last January transfer window - where he recruited well and got the balance right and where it all came together for us to enjoy football that was right up there along with the best some of us have witnessed in our lifetime...and I go right back to Turnbull's Tornadoes.

Hi Heid Yin
06-12-2018, 07:09 PM
I think Lennon might have got us up in 2016 through the play-offs, but he would not have won got us to both cup finals in the same season as Stubbs did. And, in the long term, winning the Scottish Cup will forever be what is remembered and is the most important moment in our club's recent history.

Again, this is mere conjecture....taking us into the land of hypotheticals and fantasy.

Neil Lennon was not our manager...and if I play your game for a second...then I could equally state that Neil Lennon would have got us promoted at the expense of either Hearts or Sevco, or won us the treble in 2016 of promotion as champions, The League Cup and The Scottish Cup

See how ridiculous it is to fantasise!

HibeeHibernian4
07-12-2018, 10:58 AM
Again, this is mere conjecture....taking us into the land of hypotheticals and fantasy.

Neil Lennon was not our manager...and if I play your game for a second...then I could equally state that Neil Lennon would have got us promoted at the expense of either Hearts or Sevco, or won us the treble in 2016 of promotion as champions, The League Cup and The Scottish Cup

See how ridiculous it is to fantasise!

Neil Lennon would not have got us to both cup finals because he is a poor cup manager. Alan Stubbs is one of the best cup managers in Britain.

Northernhibee
07-12-2018, 12:12 PM
Again, this is mere conjecture....taking us into the land of hypotheticals and fantasy.

Neil Lennon was not our manager...and if I play your game for a second...then I could equally state that Neil Lennon would have got us promoted at the expense of either Hearts or Sevco, or won us the treble in 2016 of promotion as champions, The League Cup and The Scottish Cup

See how ridiculous it is to fantasise!
Lennon only got 1pt more than Stubbs in an easier league. That’s not conjecture.

B.H.F.C
07-12-2018, 12:14 PM
Lennon only got 1pt more than Stubbs in an easier league. That’s not conjecture.

And also got a record points total in a far more difficult league.

Keith_M
07-12-2018, 12:18 PM
Lennon only got 1pt more than Stubbs in an easier league. That’s not conjecture.


And also got a record points total in a far more difficult league.


This is all getting very complicated and is giving me a headache.


I've actually lost track of what the argument was by now anyway

:greengrin

Johnny_Leith
07-12-2018, 12:19 PM
Neil Lennon would not have got us to both cup finals because he is a poor cup manager. Alan Stubbs is one of the best cup managers in Britain.

Haha what? I can't believe stuff like this isn't satirical.

jacomo
07-12-2018, 03:35 PM
Haha what? I can't believe stuff like this isn't satirical.


:agree:

The ‘one of’ qualification is taking the p***.

Stubbs is the greatest cup manager of the past century. Surely no one can disagree with that?

Onion
07-12-2018, 03:46 PM
The silence from our manager is deafening at the moment. Something badly wrong about that in itself.

cleanyman
07-12-2018, 03:55 PM
Neil Lennon would not have got us to both cup finals because he is a poor cup manager. Alan Stubbs is one of the best cup managers in Britain.

Alan Stubbs is a pish league manager who's been sacked at two of the three clubs he's been at it

Northernhibee
07-12-2018, 03:55 PM
And also got a record points total in a far more difficult league.

There’s no comparison to be had with Stubbs in that respect though. I’m taking the two back to back seasons.

I honestly think with the squad we had the team of Stubbs, Holden and Doolan would have done the same. Only top flight team they lost to over 90 minutes was Ross County with a horrendous injury list in midfield.

The 90+2
07-12-2018, 03:55 PM
The silence from our manager is deafening at the moment. Something badly wrong about that in itself.

First things first let’s hope he’s okay!

Has there been a Friday presser?

calumhibee1
07-12-2018, 05:34 PM
First things first let’s hope he’s okay!

Has there been a Friday presser?

Yes. Garry Parker and Oli Shaw done it.

elevengoats
07-12-2018, 06:25 PM
He still has full support from me. I'm optimistic we are going to win tomorrow and start turning things around. Go Hibs!

:flag:

HibeeHibernian4
07-12-2018, 07:06 PM
Haha what? I can't believe stuff like this isn't satirical.

Neil Lennon is regarded as a poor cup manager by Celtic fans, and with good reason.

In 4 full seasons as Celtic manager, he won just two cups. In his first season he lost to second tier Ross County in the semi final too. Given that, for 3 season, Rangers were in financial meltdown, it is shocking that he didn't even come close to a treble once. The nearest he got was 2012, when he lost to Kilmarnock in the Final and Hearts in the Semi Final.

His cup record at Hibs has been similarly underwhelming. An abject defeat at home to Queen of the South in the League Cup, a fourth round exit to Hearts, a penalty shootout defeat to Aberdeen having dominated them. He has reached two semi finals, losing them both. The first with a terribly set up team in a 3-2 defeat against Aberdeen in the semi final (Lennon took no blame for this IIRC), and the second being a 4-2 defeat against Rodgers' Celtic, which is fair enough.

So please, correct me. If I'm as wildly wrong as you claim, it should be easy, right?

HibeeHibernian4
07-12-2018, 07:07 PM
Alan Stubbs is a pish league manager who's been sacked at two of the three clubs he's been at it

Neil Lennon mustered one more point than a "pish league manager" who managed Hibs in two, much stronger Championships. Have a bit of respect for the man who gave us the greatest footballing moment of our lives.

jacomo
07-12-2018, 09:07 PM
Alan Stubbs is a pish league manager who's been sacked at two of the three clubs he's been at it


Wash your mouth out with soap.

green day
07-12-2018, 09:11 PM
Neil Lennon mustered one more point than a "pish league manager" who managed Hibs in two, much stronger Championships. Have a bit of respect for the man who gave us the greatest footballing moment of our lives.

Stop with this "one more point" pish.

Its like matchplay in golf - the score is irrelevant, winning the league is all that counts.

Love Stubbs for winning the cup, but as a league manager he failed, and not just with us.

WeeRussell
07-12-2018, 09:22 PM
Personally, I think the bizarre situation on the forum right now is due in part to people totally over reacting and losing faith too quickly (I.e Lennon still has my full support). But also because of how over the top many people were about him in the first place.

The “enjoy him while he’s here” and “best manager we’ve ever had” thread titles and posts occurred weekly only a couple of months ago.

It could be said that this place recently is one of the best examples of “fickle football fans” you’ll find.

Hi Heid Yin
07-12-2018, 09:23 PM
Haha what? I can't believe stuff like this isn't satirical.

One of the reasons I did not respond to that particular post.

It's hard to argue with an anti-Lennon supporter who turns "conjecture" into "fact" in their own head.

calumhibee1
07-12-2018, 09:24 PM
Stop with this "one more point" pish.

Its like matchplay in golf - the score is irrelevant, winning the league is all that counts.

Love Stubbs for winning the cup, but as a league manager he failed, and not just with us.

While that's absolutely true, the fact we got one more point tells more of a story than just "we won the league".

If a team finishes 2nd on 90 points but then finishes top a few seasons later with 60 points, what ones the better side?

People aren't debating whether Lennon won the league or not, he did, but he only done marginally better over the 36 games than Stubbs did. The other teams just weren't as good as previous seasons.

Will Lennon be looked upon as a failed league manager if he gets sacked by us? That would be two sackings in a row, both of them pretty much based on league form. I wouldn't see him as one btw, but I also wouldn't view Stubbs as one based on taking a job that was a hiding to nothing down south and getting 4 league games at St Mirren.

Hi Heid Yin
07-12-2018, 09:33 PM
To clarify my position on this, when things are going well for Hibs, Neil Lennon is a better manager at Hibs than Alan Stubbs ever was. Of that there is no doubt for me.

However, Stubbs could bring Hibs back from the dead in a way that Lennon seems incapable of. When we lost four in a row in the Championship in February/March 2016, and then were cruelly beaten in the League Cup Final, what did Stubbs do? He took us up to Inverness for the Scottish Cup replay three days later and got us through.

Under Lennon, before this dire run, we've had one poor spell last winter (where we lost to St Johnstone, drew with Accies, lost to Rangers and lost 4-1 at Aberdeen in the space of about six games), and it took a winter break and a transfer window for Hibs to properly recover.

I hope I'm wrong, I would love to be proved wrong, but I do not see Lennon pulling Hibs back from this.

Edit: What definitely doesn't help, going forward, is a select few fans on here sticking their head in the sand and insisting that Neil Lennon has a winning mentality despite very little evidence suggesting he does. A 'winner' would've got us to a cup final by now at the very least, surely?

I remember that abysmal run under Alan Stubbs and have still not got over the fact that his team could not win that damn league cup final against Ross County.
This remains a blot on Stubbsy's copy book.
On that occasion he "Did not bring Hibs back from the dead", nor did he bring Hibs back from the dead against Falkirk in the play offs or, indeed, league placings.
The Scottish Cup win put all these in the shade and he was forgiven by many for that glorious May day.
To now attack Lennon's record by comparing it to Stubbsy's is, frankly, ludicrous.

HibeeHibernian4
08-12-2018, 01:57 AM
Stop with this "one more point" pish.

Its like matchplay in golf - the score is irrelevant, winning the league is all that counts.

Love Stubbs for winning the cup, but as a league manager he failed, and not just with us.

I agree that the "one more point" thing isn't relevant all the time, but it definitely is when somebody has the gall to call Stubbs a "pish league manager" when Lennon did only get one more point.

Johnny_Leith
08-12-2018, 09:37 AM
Neil Lennon is regarded as a poor cup manager by Celtic fans, and with good reason.

In 4 full seasons as Celtic manager, he won just two cups. In his first season he lost to second tier Ross County in the semi final too. Given that, for 3 season, Rangers were in financial meltdown, it is shocking that he didn't even come close to a treble once. The nearest he got was 2012, when he lost to Kilmarnock in the Final and Hearts in the Semi Final.

His cup record at Hibs has been similarly underwhelming. An abject defeat at home to Queen of the South in the League Cup, a fourth round exit to Hearts, a penalty shootout defeat to Aberdeen having dominated them. He has reached two semi finals, losing them both. The first with a terribly set up team in a 3-2 defeat against Aberdeen in the semi final (Lennon took no blame for this IIRC), and the second being a 4-2 defeat against Rodgers' Celtic, which is fair enough.

So please, correct me. If I'm as wildly wrong as you claim, it should be easy, right?

The closest Lennon came to the domestic treble was 2013, when he won the league and Scottish cup against Hibs. That's closer only winning the league.

You state Stubbsy is one of the best cup managers in British, and then list all Lennon's failing as a domestic cup manager (don't forget he has a far more extensive record in European cup formats, including a champs league last 16) but don't list Stubbs failings as a domestic cup manager(not listing knockout formats like the playoffs, in which we were very poor).

I've no idea if Stubbs has even won a cup fixture since that glorious day? Listen, I'll always love Stubbsy for that day, but the accomplishment is as much a statement of the generally poor management of our club over 114 years than it is him being the next guardiola.

For me, Lennon is a cut above in management terms. More experienced (at a higher level), track record of developing players into top class players and had created a winning attitude that hopefully will return soon.

Hibeesmad
08-12-2018, 09:58 PM
We go again next week. In Lenny we trust

Viva_Palmeiras
08-12-2018, 11:52 PM
Lennon only got 1pt more than Stubbs in an easier league. That’s not conjecture.

Leagues apart, literally tho. Euro run doesn’t count and should be ignored in the final analysis.

Hibeesmad
16-12-2018, 02:39 PM
Next please. In Lenny we trust