Neil Lennon, Mental Health & Me

[HFC_NYC]

While the exact diagnosis of NeilLennon’s mental health is something that should only exist between him and his psychiatrist, I feel that I have to make this post due to some of the ill-informed comments I’ve been reading about the current Manager/Head Coach ofour team.


I’m not a Phycologist, but I do have ample personal experience as someone who suffers from mental health issuesto be able to speak with a relative amount of authority on the subject.


Anyway, the point of this post is to highlight the fact that I can see a lot of myself in the way Neil Lennon conducts himself and I think it’s only fair that someone comes out to at least try to provide some justification for the things he says/does.


Following the defeat to Kilmarnock at the weekend, I read on here that Neil Lennon is a coward because he sent Garry Parker out to do the post-match interview. Not only is that insulting, it’s an incredibly ignorant thing to say of someone who has shown incredible bravery by coming out and admitting they suffer from a mental illness. Again, this is me hypothesizing based on my own experience, but I’m pretty sure that Neil catastrophizes the result in his head and is of the belief that he is the biggest loser in the world. In these circumstances, the last thing he wants, or indeed needs, is to have a microphone shoved in his face and then have someone ask, “what went wrong today?” Furthermore, the pressure to keep the language TV friendly along with not saying something he might regret later is reason enough for not doing the interviews. Before anyone comes out and says, “he should be able to control himself from swearing on TV”, it honestly isn’t that simple when you are dealing with mental health issues. The thing about football is that over the course of 90 minutes, you have the ability to become either a hero or a loser and while most people can accept the good with the bad, that is something that those of us with mental health issues struggle with.


Another beauty I read over theweekend was something about his body language indicating that his heart was no longer in the job. Ironically, his body language was quite possibly indicating the complete opposite in that he cares immensely about the job, but the fact that things are not going well on the pitch causes a defense mechanism to kick in which then causes him to project the fact that he couldn’t give a toss. This is something I’ve done many times in my life, much to my detriment and it is extremely difficult to shake. This behavior stems from the unrealistic belief that the world is laughing at you because you failed, so rather than take ownership of the failure, you simply give the impression that you simply don’t care and actually failed on purpose.


Continuing on the theme of body language.When Neil has stated that he is considering his future with the club, this again is him talking out loud and trying to deflect the fact that he feels like the biggest failure football has ever seen. We know that he is an extremely passionate person and is 100% focused on winning and simply doesn’t possess the tools to look beyond the fact that on this occasion, has failed to achieve victory. Let’s be honest, we all let the passion of the Edinburgh Derby get to us, it’s just that in his case, there is no objectivity when it comes to losing to “them”. I think back to the time whenI had just started my first job and was sent through to Glasgow for a three day training class and was just consumed with anxiety the whole time. I was excited to have entered the work force and wanted to do well, but the fear that I could not succeed got the better ofme and I promptly announced to the entire class (including the trainers) that I didn’t know why I was there as I wanted to quit anyway. Upon returning from the class, it took agreat deal of effort on my part to convince the manager that I had been misquoted. Anyway, that was just a little personal example of how those of us with these issues say things that we do not actuallymean.


Now, this one might sound controversial, but I really do see what he was trying to do with that team selection at the weekend. Like I said earlier, I see a lot of myself in Neil and if that is the case, then I knowthat he seeks adulation and in particular, adulation for thinking outside thebox. Let’s be honest, if we had won the game on Saturday, he would have been hailed a tactical genius for fielding ateam containing seven defensive players. Yes, injuries did force his hand somewhat, but I’m pretty sure that in the back of his mind, he was thinking about the potential plaudits for fielding such a unique lineup. Should he be messing with the lineup in the hope of reaping the accolades bestowed upon such a unique lineup….NO, but I once again point to the fact that he probably does not think along the same lines as “normal” people. If Neil is anything like myself (and I believe he is), then he craves the spotlight, he craves the adulation and he lives to win but unfortunately, is unable to accept that you cannot be loved all the time, by all the people. If he is anything like me, the highs are beyond anything you can imagine, but when things are not going well, it is very difficult to escape the darkness.


I’ve rambled on long enough and I’m not even sure any of this makes complete sense, but I just wanted to try and give a bit if insight into what I believe goes on inside Neil Lennon’s head and hopefully instill a bit of compassion for the man.

[tjay]

Well said mate
Long winded but needed some balance to those wanting to jump on the man When things aren’t going well



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SRHibs]

Honestly, there's such a huge spectrum of mental illnesses that it seems to me to be a huge leap of logic to try to transplant your own experiences of mental problems (which I can empathise with) into NL's narrative.

I actually think it's unfair to immediately attribute this run of form to mental health issues as well. We don't know anything of what's going on in NL's private life at the moment.

[Babyshamble]

Brilliant post.i suffer from anxiety.wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy.its horrible to live with.Some of the comments aimed at Neil in the past few days have been disgraceful.maybe folk should take a step back and realise what it's like having this horrible illness before they comment.

[matty_f]

The coward post was ridiculous, how anyone can link that word to Lennon is beyond me, absolutely idiotic comment to make.

[FitbaFolkKen]

While the exact diagnosis of NeilLennon’s mental health is something that should only exist between him and his psychiatrist, I feel that I have to make this post due to some of the ill-informed comments I’ve been reading about the current Manager/Head Coach ofour team.


I’m not a Phycologist, but I do have ample personal experience as someone who suffers from mental health issuesto be able to speak with a relative amount of authority on the subject.


Anyway, the point of this post is to highlight the fact that I can see a lot of myself in the way Neil Lennon conducts himself and I think it’s only fair that someone comes out to at least try to provide some justification for the things he says/does.


Following the defeat to Kilmarnock at the weekend, I read on here that Neil Lennon is a coward because he sent Garry Parker out to do the post-match interview. Not only is that insulting, it’s an incredibly ignorant thing to say of someone who has shown incredible bravery by coming out and admitting they suffer from a mental illness. Again, this is me hypothesizing based on my own experience, but I’m pretty sure that Neil catastrophizes the result in his head and is of the belief that he is the biggest loser in the world. In these circumstances, the last thing he wants, or indeed needs, is to have a microphone shoved in his face and then have someone ask, “what went wrong today?” Furthermore, the pressure to keep the language TV friendly along with not saying something he might regret later is reason enough for not doing the interviews. Before anyone comes out and says, “he should be able to control himself from swearing on TV”, it honestly isn’t that simple when you are dealing with mental health issues. The thing about football is that over the course of 90 minutes, you have the ability to become either a hero or a loser and while most people can accept the good with the bad, that is something that those of us with mental health issues struggle with.


Another beauty I read over theweekend was something about his body language indicating that his heart was no longer in the job. Ironically, his body language was quite possibly indicating the complete opposite in that he cares immensely about the job, but the fact that things are not going well on the pitch causes a defense mechanism to kick in which then causes him to project the fact that he couldn’t give a toss. This is something I’ve done many times in my life, much to my detriment and it is extremely difficult to shake. This behavior stems from the unrealistic belief that the world is laughing at you because you failed, so rather than take ownership of the failure, you simply give the impression that you simply don’t care and actually failed on purpose.


Continuing on the theme of body language.When Neil has stated that he is considering his future with the club, this again is him talking out loud and trying to deflect the fact that he feels like the biggest failure football has ever seen. We know that he is an extremely passionate person and is 100% focused on winning and simply doesn’t possess the tools to look beyond the fact that on this occasion, has failed to achieve victory. Let’s be honest, we all let the passion of the Edinburgh Derby get to us, it’s just that in his case, there is no objectivity when it comes to losing to “them”. I think back to the time whenI had just started my first job and was sent through to Glasgow for a three day training class and was just consumed with anxiety the whole time. I was excited to have entered the work force and wanted to do well, but the fear that I could not succeed got the better ofme and I promptly announced to the entire class (including the trainers) that I didn’t know why I was there as I wanted to quit anyway. Upon returning from the class, it took agreat deal of effort on my part to convince the manager that I had been misquoted. Anyway, that was just a little personal example of how those of us with these issues say things that we do not actuallymean.


Now, this one might sound controversial, but I really do see what he was trying to do with that team selection at the weekend. Like I said earlier, I see a lot of myself in Neil and if that is the case, then I knowthat he seeks adulation and in particular, adulation for thinking outside thebox. Let’s be honest, if we had won the game on Saturday, he would have been hailed a tactical genius for fielding ateam containing seven defensive players. Yes, injuries did force his hand somewhat, but I’m pretty sure that in the back of his mind, he was thinking about the potential plaudits for fielding such a unique lineup. Should he be messing with the lineup in the hope of reaping the accolades bestowed upon such a unique lineup….NO, but I once again point to the fact that he probably does not think along the same lines as “normal” people. If Neil is anything like myself (and I believe he is), then he craves the spotlight, he craves the adulation and he lives to win but unfortunately, is unable to accept that you cannot be loved all the time, by all the people. If he is anything like me, the highs are beyond anything you can imagine, but when things are not going well, it is very difficult to escape the darkness.


I’ve rambled on long enough and I’m not even sure any of this makes complete sense, but I just wanted to try and give a bit if insight into what I believe goes on inside Neil Lennon’s head and hopefully instill a bit of compassion for the man.



















While I appreciate the sentiment there are a lot of assumptions here. At the end of the day things are not going well at the club and every support has an element of idiots.

We need to remember that there is a football management team in place and Garry Parker will have worked with him long enough to act in support of him. I think we would all be best focusing on the football or the current lack of it!

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think it’s fair to Neil Lennon to speculate on how his mental health does or doesn’t affect his work. Or how his work affects his health.

I understand depression (I think) but I don’t like the way, where Lennon is concerned, that it only seems to crop up when we have a bad result or a bad run of results. That isn’t meant to be in any way negative towards Lennon because it doesn’t come from him. I remember him talking at the end of his first season about having had an ‘episode’ during the season and the club supporting him through it. Nobody was any the wiser it had happened.

He also tells a story of winning an Old Firm game, as a player, at Ibrox. Everybody was bouncing but he just wanted to get home. Point being nobody knows what his triggers are.

[Inconsequential]

So many experts with a keyboard on this site and are quick to make judgement on others when they don't have a clue. Mental health is nothing to be ashamed of and is very common among men. No one is harder on the sufferer than the sufferer himself. The stigma still exists despite all the campaigns - 'You're not alone' blah, blah, blah. Many can be alone when surrounded by a large group of people. It is a very complicated illness and I too speak from experience.

[jacomo]

While I appreciate the sentiment there are a lot of assumptions here. At the end of the day things are not going well at the club and every support has an element of idiots.

We need to remember that there is a football management team in place and Garry Parker will have worked with him long enough to act in support of him. I think we would all be best focusing on the football or the current lack of it!


There are a lot of assumptions but it made more sense than a lot of the rubbish I’ve read on here the past few days.

[wpj]

I don't think it's appropriate discussing someone's health on a public forum.
IMHO

[The Tubs]

The speculation was fair enough until the penultimate paragraph. If the team selection could really be attributed to the reason you give, then I would say he shouldn’t be managing Hibs.

[Babyshamble]

The speculation was fair enough until the penultimate paragraph. If the team selection could really be attributed to the reason you give, then I would say he shouldn’t be managing Hibs.

Hahahaha you ****ing idiot.

[HFC_NYC]

I should have probably been a bit clearer, but I wasn't trying to say that the team performances have been shocking because of NL's mental health. I was simply trying to qualify some of his behavior based on my own experiences.

Anyway, I just wanted to raise a bit of understanding as to what MIGHT be going through Neil's mind before people accuse him of being a coward etc.

[BILLYHIBS]

I don't think it's appropriate discussing someone's health on a public forum.
IMHO

This!

[LustForLeith]

I don't think it's appropriate discussing someone's health on a public forum.
IMHO

But Lennon himself has spoken out about his mental health battles in the past. Also, the more people that do talk about mental health removes the stigma that’s still attached to it.

[BILLYHIBS]

But Lennon himself has spoken out about his mental health battles in the past. Also, the more people that do talk about mental health removes the stigma that’s still attached to it.

It was a good post by the OP but did he seek Lennys permission?

He appears to compare Lennys behaviour to his own condition but no two mental illnesses are the same

I hear what you are saying but still feel given the circumstances wholly inappropriate let’s stick to the football.

I would not want my many health issues to be openly discussed on a football forum especially without my express permission

[WhileTheChief..]

You should all stop talking his health.

Nowt to do with any of us and anyone trying to offer some kind of diagnosis or explanation is bang out of order.

Its a personal matter that folk are bringing up at every opportunity if they don’t agree with what he says.

Awful behaviour from every single one of you.

[lyonhibs]

Quite a lot of advanced whataboutery there. Does the OP know any more about NL and his mental state/personality than the rest of us?

Makes me a tad uncomfortable hypothesising over the mental health of someone on an anonymous Internet forum when that person can't take part in the conversation tbh.

Obviously, the "coward" comment came from a grade a throbber, on that I agree.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The coward post was ridiculous, how anyone can link that word to Lennon is beyond me, absolutely idiotic comment to make.

The Bolloxometer has gone into overdrive these past few days.
Speqking up on mental health issues is a toughie yet a good number of us will come across it either personally or indirectly through family/friends/colleagues.

As for the OP trying to relate - that’s called empathy and respect to him for raising the points made. Perhaps it makes us think a little more about things in the process.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Interesting post.

I dont know if his health problems are anything to do with this current slump. But of they are, then this is where Dempster needs to earn her salary.

In the same way that Levein was given time off to recover and convalesce from his recent illness, Lenny should be given the same.

Hibs shpuld support him, but if he isnt capable of doing his job, he should be given a break away from the spotlight and pressure to recover.

The problem is none of us know, and it is im danger of becoming used as excuse - which helps neither hibs nor the wider movement to normalise and de-stigmatise mental health problems.

There is also a risk of this becoming another issue where the lack of leadership and communication from Hibs fuels the problem.

[SirDavidsNapper]

I don't know what Neil Lennon is going through at the moment if anything. Depression is horrible and i feel for him but i think people are getting angry and frustrated at our abysmal form and performances. The man in charge will always bare the brunt from the supporters and i don't think anyone has used his illness against him. It's his woeful team selection and tactics people are annoyed at. People wanted an explanation from Lennon not Parker and it was disappointing. Is he a coward? Not in a million years but i thought it was poor from him on Saturday.

[Spike Mandela]

While the exact diagnosis of NeilLennon’s mental health is something that should only exist between him and his psychiatrist, I feel that I have to make this post due to some of the ill-informed comments I’ve been reading about the current Manager/Head Coach ofour team.


I’m not a Phycologist, but I do have ample personal experience as someone who suffers from mental health issuesto be able to speak with a relative amount of authority on the subject.


Anyway, the point of this post is to highlight the fact that I can see a lot of myself in the way Neil Lennon conducts himself and I think it’s only fair that someone comes out to at least try to provide some justification for the things he says/does.


Following the defeat to Kilmarnock at the weekend, I read on here that Neil Lennon is a coward because he sent Garry Parker out to do the post-match interview. Not only is that insulting, it’s an incredibly ignorant thing to say of someone who has shown incredible bravery by coming out and admitting they suffer from a mental illness. Again, this is me hypothesizing based on my own experience, but I’m pretty sure that Neil catastrophizes the result in his head and is of the belief that he is the biggest loser in the world. In these circumstances, the last thing he wants, or indeed needs, is to have a microphone shoved in his face and then have someone ask, “what went wrong today?” Furthermore, the pressure to keep the language TV friendly along with not saying something he might regret later is reason enough for not doing the interviews. Before anyone comes out and says, “he should be able to control himself from swearing on TV”, it honestly isn’t that simple when you are dealing with mental health issues. The thing about football is that over the course of 90 minutes, you have the ability to become either a hero or a loser and while most people can accept the good with the bad, that is something that those of us with mental health issues struggle with.


Another beauty I read over theweekend was something about his body language indicating that his heart was no longer in the job. Ironically, his body language was quite possibly indicating the complete opposite in that he cares immensely about the job, but the fact that things are not going well on the pitch causes a defense mechanism to kick in which then causes him to project the fact that he couldn’t give a toss. This is something I’ve done many times in my life, much to my detriment and it is extremely difficult to shake. This behavior stems from the unrealistic belief that the world is laughing at you because you failed, so rather than take ownership of the failure, you simply give the impression that you simply don’t care and actually failed on purpose.


Continuing on the theme of body language.When Neil has stated that he is considering his future with the club, this again is him talking out loud and trying to deflect the fact that he feels like the biggest failure football has ever seen. We know that he is an extremely passionate person and is 100% focused on winning and simply doesn’t possess the tools to look beyond the fact that on this occasion, has failed to achieve victory. Let’s be honest, we all let the passion of the Edinburgh Derby get to us, it’s just that in his case, there is no objectivity when it comes to losing to “them”. I think back to the time whenI had just started my first job and was sent through to Glasgow for a three day training class and was just consumed with anxiety the whole time. I was excited to have entered the work force and wanted to do well, but the fear that I could not succeed got the better ofme and I promptly announced to the entire class (including the trainers) that I didn’t know why I was there as I wanted to quit anyway. Upon returning from the class, it took agreat deal of effort on my part to convince the manager that I had been misquoted. Anyway, that was just a little personal example of how those of us with these issues say things that we do not actuallymean.


Now, this one might sound controversial, but I really do see what he was trying to do with that team selection at the weekend. Like I said earlier, I see a lot of myself in Neil and if that is the case, then I knowthat he seeks adulation and in particular, adulation for thinking outside thebox. Let’s be honest, if we had won the game on Saturday, he would have been hailed a tactical genius for fielding ateam containing seven defensive players. Yes, injuries did force his hand somewhat, but I’m pretty sure that in the back of his mind, he was thinking about the potential plaudits for fielding such a unique lineup. Should he be messing with the lineup in the hope of reaping the accolades bestowed upon such a unique lineup….NO, but I once again point to the fact that he probably does not think along the same lines as “normal” people. If Neil is anything like myself (and I believe he is), then he craves the spotlight, he craves the adulation and he lives to win but unfortunately, is unable to accept that you cannot be loved all the time, by all the people. If he is anything like me, the highs are beyond anything you can imagine, but when things are not going well, it is very difficult to escape the darkness.


I’ve rambled on long enough and I’m not even sure any of this makes complete sense, but I just wanted to try and give a bit if insight into what I believe goes on inside Neil Lennon’s head and hopefully instill a bit of compassion for the man.


















A very interesting and informative post that should give everyone leave to consider some of the comments they post about Neil Lennon or other individuals. Unfortunately I won’t hold my breath as we haven’t won for 6 games and that seems to give some supporters the trigger to unleash hell on everyone.😎

[WhileTheChief..]

^^ which is fine.

It’s if you start to associate results with his health that’s an issue.

Nobody brings it up when we win. Lose a game and all the experts have their say.

[oldbutdim]

You should all stop talking his health.

Nowt to do with any of us and anyone trying to offer some kind of diagnosis or explanation is bang out of order.

Its a personal matter that folk are bringing up at every opportunity if they don’t agree with what he says.

Awful behaviour from every single one of you.



Pretty much this.

:agree:

[Pretty Boy]

I'm all for discussing mental health openly. However when it reaches a stage that people are using it as a justification for team selections or management decisions then it makes me a bit uneasy.

Personal experience or otherwise I'm not comfortable with amateur diagnosis and projecting personal experiences onto others. In the same way that every person with cancer doesn't become an expert Oncologist neither does everyone with mental health issues become an expert mental health professional. Of course it's helpful to share experiences and advice with others but making huge assumptions about another individuals conditions with limited knowledge isn't particularly helpful imo.

[calumhibee1]

I'm all for discussing mental health openly. However when it reaches a stage that people are using it as a justification for team selections or management decisions then it makes me a bit uneasy.

Personal experience or otherwise I'm not comfortable with amateur diagnosis and projecting personal experiences onto others. In the same way that every person with cancer doesn't become an expert Oncologist neither does everyone with mental health issues become an expert mental health professional. Of course it's helpful to share experiences and advice with others but making huge assumptions about another individuals conditions with limited knowledge isn't particularly helpful imo.

:agree:

[Ryan69]

You do realise there are hundreds of mental illnesses...that invariably make you feel in several different ways.
You dont know what his illness is....So will unfortunately have no idea how he feels.

It seems like you want tobe his brother or something...which is abit creepy.

[Elephant Stone]

You do realise there are hundreds of mental illnesses...that invariably make you feel in several different ways.
You dont know what his illness is....So will unfortunately have no idea how he feels.

It seems like you want tobe his brother or something...which is abit creepy.

This forum is going down the pan at quite a pace.

He doesn't know what his illness is? He has depression, he has said this many times. All the OP has said is that he has experienced it as well and believes that some of Lennon's behaviour - which he has been attacked for extensively on this forum - might be in part explained by how he is feeling. Seems pretty straightforward really.

[barcahibs]

As someone who has experienced mental health problems - and who now works in a mental health field -I think we need to be very careful about projecting symptoms or our own experiences onto someone else. There s no such thing as a 'typical' sufferer of illnesses like depression or anxiety (at least at the superficial level we're talking about here), everyone experiences these issues in their own way. Like the OP I can see many of my own symptoms in Neil - but I can see them in a lot of other people too, many of whom don't have any mental health issues. A lot of the 'symptoms' or 'traits' of mental health issues are just everyday human behaviours that everyone displays to a greater or lesser degree - its how the mind deals with these behaviours that's important - and this can change daily.

I think the OP was very well intentioned but I don't think that constantly linking Neil's work performance to his mental health is a positive or healthy thing to do for him as an individual, or for society. Yes Neil has (or has had) a mental health issue. So have 1 in 3 (or 1 in 4 or 1 in 6 depending who's statistics you follow) of the population. It is very possible - even normal - for people to have a mental health issue and for it to have no impact on their work performance whatsoever for 99.9% of the time. It's incredibly brave and positive for Neil to be so open about his issues but it doesn't make him someone to be pointed at or treated as a special case.

The last thing I want as a mental health sufferer is for everyone at my work to be constantly analysing my performance and everyday behaviours for 'signs' of my mental health problem. Believe me, unless you're a trained and experienced mental health professional there is no way you'll pick up on any of my issues and there's no way - outside of a breakdown - that you'll see them affecting my work.

We should all be more open about mental health, but the idea that once you 'come out' as a sufferer everyone will then start treating you differently and analysing your body language, work decisions and conversations for signs or symptoms of your illness is not going to encourage anyone. Mental health issues are a normal part of everyday life for millions of people. My Line manager knows my issues, HR knows my issues, select colleagues know my issues. They all know what I can and can't do and how to deal with an emergency should one ever occur. They are sympathetic and the few allowances I need in my role are catered for. Beyond that I'm expected to get on with my job like everyone else - and that's how it should be.

[Keith_M]

I'm sorry, but if he has an illness that affects his ability to do the job he's being (very well) paid to do, then maybe he should think about taking some time out. Whether that's temporary or permanent is between him, his employers and doctor, as none of us know the exact extent of his illness.

There's a big difference between having empathy for someone (which I'm sure most of us do), and others using an illness as an excuse for poor workplace performance.


Ad yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

[Dashing Bob S]

So many experts with a keyboard on this site and are quick to make judgement on others when they don't have a clue. Mental health is nothing to be ashamed of and is very common among men. No one is harder on the sufferer than the sufferer himself. The stigma still exists despite all the campaigns - 'You're not alone' blah, blah, blah. Many can be alone when surrounded by a large group of people. It is a very complicated illness and I too speak from experience.

This is the crux of it. It's great that mental health is no longer stigmatized and can be discussed in public, but the downside is that there is a tendency now to see any defective issue in terms of a party's mental health. In the case of Gazza, he might just be a drunken sex pest. In the case of Neil Lennon, he might have just got team selection wrong or the players may have just hit a bad run of form with their confidence dipping.

[Lago]

:top marks
I'm sorry, but if he has an illness that affects his ability to do the job he's being (very well) paid to do, then maybe he should think about taking some time out. Whether that's temporary or permanent is between him, his employers and doctor, as none of us know the exact extent of his illness.

There's a big difference between having empathy for someone (which I'm sure most of us do), and others using an illness as an excuse for poor workplace performance.


Ad yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

[silverhibee]

I'm all for discussing mental health openly. However when it reaches a stage that people are using it as a justification for team selections or management decisions then it makes me a bit uneasy.

Personal experience or otherwise I'm not comfortable with amateur diagnosis and projecting personal experiences onto others. In the same way that every person with cancer doesn't become an expert Oncologist neither does everyone with mental health issues become an expert mental health professional. Of course it's helpful to share experiences and advice with others but making huge assumptions about another individuals conditions with limited knowledge isn't particularly helpful imo.

You should close the thread then.

[Ryan69]

This forum is going down the pan at quite a pace.

He doesn't know what his illness is? He has depression, he has said this many times. All the OP has said is that he has experienced it as well and believes that some of Lennon's behaviour - which he has been attacked for extensively on this forum - might be in part explained by how he is feeling. Seems pretty straightforward really.

I had PTSD....and I dont for a second believe I feel what Lennon is feeling.


As all mental illnesses are different.

[Pretty Boy]

You should close the thread then.

The thought crossed my mind. Personally I'm inclined to let it run for the moment as most of the discussion has been relatively sensible.

[silverhibee]

The thought crossed my mind. Personally I'm inclined to let it run for the moment as most of the discussion has been relatively sensible.

Your the boss PB.

Just seems like that each time we hit a wee bad patch or Lennon has a strop over something then it's down to his mental health problems, yes he has spoke about it himself but it is becoming a habit on here, I just don't think we should be discussing his problems on here.

[hibbydog]

I'm all for discussing mental health openly. However when it reaches a stage that people are using it as a justification for team selections or management decisions then it makes me a bit uneasy.

Personal experience or otherwise I'm not comfortable with amateur diagnosis and projecting personal experiences onto others. In the same way that every person with cancer doesn't become an expert Oncologist neither does everyone with mental health issues become an expert mental health professional. Of course it's helpful to share experiences and advice with others but making huge assumptions about another individuals conditions with limited knowledge isn't particularly helpful imo.

This is it. Amateur psychologists and self-appointed experts often do more bad than good.

Someone with mental health issues needs care from a trained, qualified professional. Advice and speculation from unqualified people (who automatically assume that they are an authority on the subject just because they've had some limited experience) doesn't count for much.

FWIW, our manager's mental health is merely a convenient assumption for people to use as an explanation for our current form. It's unfair and a bit personal.

Players need to do the business. Simple as.

[WhileTheChief..]

Exactly this.

It’s bad enough that everyone thinks they could do his job but to be offering a diagnosis on his “health issues” is ridiculous.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that he is anything other than fine.

[CropleyWasGod]

This is it. Amateur psychologists and self-appointed experts often do more bad than good.

Someone with mental health issues needs care from a trained, qualified professional. Advice and speculation from unqualified people (who automatically assume that they are an authority on the subject just because they've had some limited experience) doesn't count for much.

FWIW, our manager's mental health is merely a convenient assumption for people to use as an explanation for our current form. It's unfair and a bit personal.

Players need to do the business. Simple as.

Indeed.

There is only one expert on NL's mental health, and that is the man himself.

[HFC_NYC]

Well, this backfired entirely. It was never my intention to provide an expert diagnosis of Neil Lennon's frame of mind, I was trying (however poorly) to highlight that the recent body language and not facing the media etc may be down to issues with mental health given the fact that I can relate entirely to what appears to be going on.

I thought I was doing a good thing by bringing this subject to light, but in hindsight, I've probably done more bad than good.

Feel free to delete the thread.

[bingo70]

Well, this backfired entirely. It was never my intention to provide an expert diagnosis of Neil Lennon's frame of mind, I was trying (however poorly) to highlight that the recent body language and not facing the media etc may be down to issues with mental health given the fact that I can relate entirely to what appears to be going on.

I thought I was doing a good thing by bringing this subject to light, but in hindsight, I've probably done more bad than good.

Feel free to delete the thread.

Not at all, well certainly not from my perspective.

I found it interesting and there were perhaps things i wasn't taking into account. It's generated discussion and while i don't necessarily agree with everything you said i don't think there was any harm in it.

FWIW I don't think it's worth deleting, once people don't want to discuss it any more it will naturally filter down the pages.

[HFC_NYC]

This is it. Amateur psychologists and self-appointed experts often do more bad than good.

Someone with mental health issues needs care from a trained, qualified professional. Advice and speculation from unqualified people (who automatically assume that they are an authority on the subject just because they've had some limited experience) doesn't count for much.

FWIW, our manager's mental health is merely a convenient assumption for people to use as an explanation for our current form. It's unfair and a bit personal.

Players need to do the business. Simple as.

I have to take offence to this part of your statement. I didn't go into details of what my own experience is, but if I did, you probably wouldn't have made that comment.

[MWHIBBIES]

Did anyone ever suggest Terry Butcher was struggling due to his mental health? Or Colin Calderwood?

I think its extremely disrespectful to Lennon to blame to even suggest that is the problem here. I think if he's made a mistake then he should be called hopeless like anyone else would be. If he's made a brilliant decision he should get credit like anyone else. There is nothing to suggest our form or his decisions are in any way related to his mental health.

[Onion]

IMO biggest insult to Lennon would be to start treating him any differently to any other manager. There will always be idiotic and inappropriate posts on a football forum, and these need to be highlighted when they emerge, but I for one will not refrain from criticising him on team selection, substitutions, tactics and public comments when they are clearly wrong. NL is the best we've had at ER in decades and deserves high praise for what he's done, but some of his decisions and comments lately have been poor and undoing a lot of that good work.

[HFC_NYC]

Did anyone ever suggest Terry Butcher was struggling due to his mental health? Or Colin Calderwood?

I think its extremely disrespectful to Lennon to blame to even suggest that is the problem here. I think if he's made a mistake then he should be called hopeless like anyone else would be. If he's made a brilliant decision he should get credit like anyone else. There is nothing to suggest our form or his decisions are in any way related to his mental health.

Terry Butcher and Colin Calderwood never came out and admitted to suffering from mental health issues, so no, that was never suggested.

Maybe I worded the original post badly (quite possible), but I never once stated that the poor run of form we are on is because NL has mental health issues. I was trying to address the comments that were being made about his body language etc.

[Greenworld]

This!The problem is Billy you cannot do what is required as a manager if you are suffering prolonged bouts .
It's a tough one but it starts to effect everyone

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[SRHibs]

As someone who has experienced mental health problems - and who now works in a mental health field -I think we need to be very careful about projecting symptoms or our own experiences onto someone else. There s no such thing as a 'typical' sufferer of illnesses like depression or anxiety (at least at the superficial level we're talking about here), everyone experiences these issues in their own way. Like the OP I can see many of my own symptoms in Neil - but I can see them in a lot of other people too, many of whom don't have any mental health issues. A lot of the 'symptoms' or 'traits' of mental health issues are just everyday human behaviours that everyone displays to a greater or lesser degree - its how the mind deals with these behaviours that's important - and this can change daily.

I think the OP was very well intentioned but I don't think that constantly linking Neil's work performance to his mental health is a positive or healthy thing to do for him as an individual, or for society. Yes Neil has (or has had) a mental health issue. So have 1 in 3 (or 1 in 4 or 1 in 6 depending who's statistics you follow) of the population. It is very possible - even normal - for people to have a mental health issue and for it to have no impact on their work performance whatsoever for 99.9% of the time. It's incredibly brave and positive for Neil to be so open about his issues but it doesn't make him someone to be pointed at or treated as a special case.

The last thing I want as a mental health sufferer is for everyone at my work to be constantly analysing my performance and everyday behaviours for 'signs' of my mental health problem. Believe me, unless you're a trained and experienced mental health professional there is no way you'll pick up on any of my issues and there's no way - outside of a breakdown - that you'll see them affecting my work.

We should all be more open about mental health, but the idea that once you 'come out' as a sufferer everyone will then start treating you differently and analysing your body language, work decisions and conversations for signs or symptoms of your illness is not going to encourage anyone. Mental health issues are a normal part of everyday life for millions of people. My Line manager knows my issues, HR knows my issues, select colleagues know my issues. They all know what I can and can't do and how to deal with an emergency should one ever occur. They are sympathetic and the few allowances I need in my role are catered for. Beyond that I'm expected to get on with my job like everyone else - and that's how it should be.

Great post.

[nonshinyfinish]

As someone who has experienced mental health problems - and who now works in a mental health field -I think we need to be very careful about projecting symptoms or our own experiences onto someone else. There s no such thing as a 'typical' sufferer of illnesses like depression or anxiety (at least at the superficial level we're talking about here), everyone experiences these issues in their own way. Like the OP I can see many of my own symptoms in Neil - but I can see them in a lot of other people too, many of whom don't have any mental health issues. A lot of the 'symptoms' or 'traits' of mental health issues are just everyday human behaviours that everyone displays to a greater or lesser degree - its how the mind deals with these behaviours that's important - and this can change daily.

I think the OP was very well intentioned but I don't think that constantly linking Neil's work performance to his mental health is a positive or healthy thing to do for him as an individual, or for society. Yes Neil has (or has had) a mental health issue. So have 1 in 3 (or 1 in 4 or 1 in 6 depending who's statistics you follow) of the population. It is very possible - even normal - for people to have a mental health issue and for it to have no impact on their work performance whatsoever for 99.9% of the time. It's incredibly brave and positive for Neil to be so open about his issues but it doesn't make him someone to be pointed at or treated as a special case.

The last thing I want as a mental health sufferer is for everyone at my work to be constantly analysing my performance and everyday behaviours for 'signs' of my mental health problem. Believe me, unless you're a trained and experienced mental health professional there is no way you'll pick up on any of my issues and there's no way - outside of a breakdown - that you'll see them affecting my work.

We should all be more open about mental health, but the idea that once you 'come out' as a sufferer everyone will then start treating you differently and analysing your body language, work decisions and conversations for signs or symptoms of your illness is not going to encourage anyone. Mental health issues are a normal part of everyday life for millions of people. My Line manager knows my issues, HR knows my issues, select colleagues know my issues. They all know what I can and can't do and how to deal with an emergency should one ever occur. They are sympathetic and the few allowances I need in my role are catered for. Beyond that I'm expected to get on with my job like everyone else - and that's how it should be.

An excellent post.

[BILLYHIBS]

The problem is Billy you cannot do what is required as a manager if you are suffering prolonged bouts .
It's a tough one but it starts to effect everyone

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
I hear you !
Maybe his employer should intervene if that is the case
Still do not think we should be discussing it on here with all due respect

[hibbydog]

I have to take offence to this part of your statement. I didn't go into details of what my own experience is, but if I did, you probably wouldn't have made that comment.

No offence intended. My comment was intended as a general one rather than intending to demean your own experience.

The point still stands though. Everyone has had varying experiences of mental health, but I don’t really understand how anyone can comment knowledgeably without the relevant training, qualifications and experience?