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cleanyman
24-11-2018, 04:52 PM
Enough said

Too many passengers who are taking us to a bottom 6 finish

SRHibs
24-11-2018, 04:53 PM
When was the last time we played the same team 2 games in a row?

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 04:54 PM
Enough said

Too many passengers who are taking us to a bottom 6 finish

Can’t argue with that. We’re pish.

murray26
24-11-2018, 04:54 PM
Something definitely not right we have a good squad but are not firing.. 2 points from a possible 15 and a really difficult December on the horizon.. definitely worried

hhibs
24-11-2018, 04:56 PM
Enough said

Too many passengers who are taking us to a bottom 6 finish



Completely unacceptable ,rank performance ,are we now allowed to say how poor we are you happy clappers !

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 04:57 PM
Something definitely not right we have a good squad but are not firing.. 2 points from a possible 15 and a really difficult December on the horizon.. definitely worried

We don’t have a good squad. We’ve got a horribly inbalanced squad with a sprinkling of decent players. The fact we’ve not got any out and out centre midfielders that are good enough is a disgrace. Two decent DMs and one decent number 10 but nobody to play as a proper CM.

AllyF
24-11-2018, 04:57 PM
That second half was pathetic. Offered nothing.

heretoday
24-11-2018, 04:58 PM
Rudderless and lacking inspiration.

Jim44
24-11-2018, 04:58 PM
Something definitely not right we have a good squad but are not firing.. 2 points from a possible 15 and a really difficult December on the horizon.. definitely worried

Worrying about Hibs is relative. We’re used to worrying about not getting relegated, not worrying about getting a top four place. We are very, very ordinary.

HIBERNIAN-0762
24-11-2018, 04:58 PM
Signings required in January for sure.

Heisenberg
24-11-2018, 04:59 PM
I wish he would give up with Horgan as a 10. It’s not his role. For all the stick Maclaren gets Kamberi was 10x worse today but got kept on the park. Awful.

SirDavidsNapper
24-11-2018, 04:59 PM
We are a very poor side

murray26
24-11-2018, 05:00 PM
We don’t have a good squad. We’ve got a horribly inbalanced squad with a sprinkling of decent players. The fact we’ve not got any out and out centre midfielders that are good enough is a disgrace. Two decent DMs and one decent number 10 but nobody to play as a proper CM.

Fair enough but we still have a far better squad than Dundee.. bitterly disappointed

SouthMoroccoStu
24-11-2018, 05:01 PM
We were poor but I genuinely blame the ref

Let Dundee away with everything, fouls and handballs

You get these decisions and you get more chances

Yes we can improve but these useless ****s from the sfa ruin football every ****ing week

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 05:02 PM
Fair enough but we still have a far better squad than Dundee.. bitterly disappointed

Sorry, I wasn’t shooting you down, I don’t agree with it though :greengrin we do have a better squad than Dundee though, I agree with that.

Squirrel 1875
24-11-2018, 05:03 PM
I wish he would give up with Horgan as a 10. It’s not his role. For all the stick Maclaren gets Kamberi was 10x worse today but got kept on the park. Awful.

Maclaren didn’t do anything?

rotherhamrob
24-11-2018, 05:05 PM
There's no getting away from it,we lost a great midfield and the replacements are nowhere near the same standard.
As it stands the table doesn't lie, mid table mediocrity is the best we'll get unless something is done about it in January.

murray26
24-11-2018, 05:05 PM
Sorry, I wasn’t shooting you down, I don’t agree with it though :greengrin we do have a better squad than Dundee though, I agree with that.

No problem pal.. the sad realisation has just set in that this is going to be a crap season.. probably looking at a bottom 6 finish

Heisenberg
24-11-2018, 05:07 PM
Maclaren didn’t do anything?

What did Kamberi offer to get kept on the park? He was shocking. Got bullied by the Dundee defenders all day.

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:09 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

Borderhibbie76
24-11-2018, 05:11 PM
We don’t have a good squad. We’ve got a horribly inbalanced squad with a sprinkling of decent players. The fact we’ve not got any out and out centre midfielders that are good enough is a disgrace. Two decent DMs and one decent number 10 but nobody to play as a proper CM.Agreed woefully inbalanced squad especially in midfield and at least 1 if not 2 decent strikers short

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cleanyman
24-11-2018, 05:11 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

Naw

We're no

Hibs90
24-11-2018, 05:12 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

Not a chance thats serious haha

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 05:12 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

I saw nothing that I would have equated to being very good there.

Borderhibbie76
24-11-2018, 05:13 PM
I wish he would give up with Horgan as a 10. It’s not his role. For all the stick Maclaren gets Kamberi was 10x worse today but got kept on the park. Awful.Because we didn't sign another striker but many of us were called bed wetters or panic merchants on here for commenting ...we are at least 1 if not 2 strikers short. And neither Flo or Jamie Mac look the same players without Scotty Allan in behind ...worrying times at moment

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hhibs
24-11-2018, 05:13 PM
[QUOTE=houstonhibbee;5610833]Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one[/QU

Daft comment,2 points from 15,just when should we get ffing worried

Hibbyradge
24-11-2018, 05:15 PM
Completely unacceptable ,rank performance ,are we now allowed to say how poor we are you happy clappers !

:faf:

Fill your boots.

🎶🎵"If it makes you happy ..."🎵🎶

Borderhibbie76
24-11-2018, 05:15 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is oneIf u think that's acceptable mate u need to seriously re-think it was nowhere and I mean nowhere near the standard required I'm afraid

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hhibs
24-11-2018, 05:15 PM
Because we didn't sign another striker but many of us were called bed wetters or panic merchants on here for commenting ...we are at least 1 if not 2 strikers short. And neither Flo or Jamie Mac look the same players without Scotty Allan in behind ...worrying times at moment


:

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:top marks

we are hibs
24-11-2018, 05:16 PM
No you're wrong and a "pant wetter".


Lets face it; we have a midfield full of hiders and a defence who can't defend crosses. Lennon is the best manager since Turnbull though. Laughable.

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:16 PM
I saw nothing that I would have equated to being very good there.
Nonsense
we still have the best manager we’ve had probably in 30years itt can’t always be smooth sailing so stop greeting

hhibs
24-11-2018, 05:19 PM
:faf:

Fill your boots.

🎶🎵"If it makes you happy ..."🎵🎶




TWO (2) points from FIFTEEN(15) says it all,Mr Clapper.

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:25 PM
If u think that's acceptable mate u need to seriously re-think it was nowhere and I mean nowhere near the standard required I'm afraid

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I didn’t say it was acceptable or met the standard required
im saying we need to work at it and we’re not far off it’s just not quite clicking but Allan andd another center forward could make all the difference
remember last January???

Nakedmanoncrack
24-11-2018, 05:26 PM
Aberdeen and Hearts forums are probably full of similar hysteria tonight.

Tornadoes70
24-11-2018, 05:27 PM
Its completely unacceptable to allow the bottom side in the league to come back from being 2-0 down at Easter Road. Supporters have every right to criticise and ask questions of how it was allowed to happen. Terrible to drop two points in this way. Thankfully the yams were beaten which always slightly lessens the blow but ffs get it sorted Lenny and quickly.

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 05:29 PM
I didn’t say it was acceptable or met the standard required
im saying we need to work at it and we’re not far off it’s just not quite clicking but Allan andd another center forward could make all the difference
remember last January???

You said we were very good for 45 minutes? I genuinely don’t know what 45 that would be by the way because we were crap in both halves imo.

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:30 PM
Its completely unacceptable to allow the bottom side in the league to come back from being 2-0 down at Easter Road. Supporters have every right to criticise and ask questions of how it was allowed to happen. Terrible to drop two points in this way. Thankfully the yams were beaten which always slightly lessens the blow but ffs get it sorted Lenny and quickly.
Objective criticism is one thing but crying like babies is another

Tornadoes70
24-11-2018, 05:32 PM
Objective criticism is one thing but crying like babies is another

Who's crying like a baby?

Springbank
24-11-2018, 05:33 PM
look lads any team with mallan in it gets relegated (f'in passenger see st Mirren and Barnsley for examples) he needs to sort himself the f out at ER or accept he's shxte

But we need to be better than that, with or without a shxtebag midfielder.
who did we get in the cup?

YanYansen
24-11-2018, 05:33 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

Folk seem to think a guy that's not kicked a ball since he last played for us is a) going to be allowed to join us, and b) instantly transform us.


Its completely unacceptable to allow the bottom side in the league to come back from being 2-0 down at Easter Road. Supporters have every right to criticise and ask questions of how it was allowed to happen. Terrible to drop two points in this way. Thankfully the yams were beaten which always slightly lessens the blow but ffs get it sorted Lenny and quickly.

Indeed. If we can't criticise now, when can we? If we'd chucked all three points, folk like the above would still be crying "knee jerk". We are in trouble, and if you can't see that, it's because you don't want to.

CLASS OF 72 -73
24-11-2018, 05:34 PM
Do we have to be 4 up with 10 minutes to go to see a game through even against the worst team in the league? Most of our rivals for a top 4 slip up and we well for the want of using the term ***ked up as we do. Can't understand it we have a decent defence but are we missing the boys that moved on badly.

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:36 PM
You said we were very good for 45 minutes? I genuinely don’t know what 45 that would be by the way because we were crap in both halves imo.
We created at least 5 guilt edged chances in the first half

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 05:38 PM
Indeed. If we can't criticise now, when can we? If we'd chucked all three points, folk like the above would still be crying "knee jerk". We are in trouble, and if you can't see that, it's because you don't want to.

:agree:

People are desperately trying to save face because they shot down anyone who had concerns before so they’re sticking their head in the sand and persisting with the bed wetter (or something similar) patter.

Borderhibbie76
24-11-2018, 05:39 PM
We created at least 5 guilt edged chances in the first halfYour at it...Dundee had loads of the ball in the first 45 and 2 nil flattered us

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houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:41 PM
Who's crying like a baby?
Not aimed at you
we have the right manager and the right nucleus of players
it’s not quite clicking but we’re only a player or two off
ctiticism is one thing but most of the posters are moaning and can’t accept that we’re not winning without offering any objective discussion

skyhibs
24-11-2018, 05:41 PM
They should be ashamed. Terrible performance. Ambrose only one with pass marks

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:44 PM
Aberdeen and Hearts forums are probably full of similar hysteria tonight.
:aok:

skyhibs
24-11-2018, 05:45 PM
Horgan is a waste of a jersey... he is like a man short... he does try but is murder

MSK
24-11-2018, 05:46 PM
look lads any team with mallan in it gets relegated (f'in passenger see st Mirren and Barnsley for examples) he needs to sort himself the f out at ER or accept he's shxte

But we need to be better than that, with or without a shxtebag midfielder.
who did we get in the cup?Dont talk ****ing *****, he played no more than 8 games for Barnsley so how the **** did he contribute to their relegation ? At St Mirren he was a promising youngster and was courted by a few teams before moving to Barnsley. He still has a lot to offer and is by far the finished article, he has big boots to fill so give the lad a ****ing chance before spouting your utter bollox 👍

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 05:46 PM
Your at it...Dundee had loads of the ball in the first 45 and 2 nil flattered us

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I’m at it? So how many good chances did we create in the first half according to you? Pray tell

bookert
24-11-2018, 05:48 PM
Neither striker can hold the ball when played up to them, so we are constantly scrapping for balls in the midfield, an activity the midfield are unsuited for. I also question the wisdom of playing all three Australian players after the break.

Scotty Leither
24-11-2018, 05:53 PM
We can argue all day long about players, i'm particularly critical about our recruitment, where for instance are Marvias (sp?) and Nelom?

For the players on the park though, it's the naivety that does it for me - why is the Dundee full-back not fouled when he collects the ball in the lead up to their goal?

Every other team in the league would have committed a foul, but not us, and that goal changes the whole complexion of the game.

Forget about creativity (which we're sadly lacking in too), there's just not enough hard@sses in that team that would kick their granny to win, and that's surprising with a side managed by Neil Lennon.

Tornadoes70
24-11-2018, 05:54 PM
Not aimed at you
we have the right manager and the right nucleus of players
it’s not quite clicking but we’re only a player or two off
ctiticism is one thing but most of the posters are moaning and can’t accept that we’re not winning without offering any objective discussion

Fair do's mate. We're all in the same boat desperate to see our team win especially at home. Definitely something not quite right in being unable to defend a two goal lead against Dundee and supporters are bound to react and vent their spleen so to speak at such laxity. Here's hoping Lenny can get it sorted rapid style.

SirDavidsNapper
24-11-2018, 05:55 PM
We need our captain back. We've been rank rotten ever since he got injured.

MWHIBBIES
24-11-2018, 06:06 PM
We're just average. Few bad results, few good ones. Few good players, few bad ones. Manager average as well.

Hiber-nation
24-11-2018, 06:08 PM
We're just average. Few bad results, few good ones. Few good players, few bad ones. Manager average as well.

Missing Gray badly....

MWHIBBIES
24-11-2018, 06:09 PM
Missing Gray badly....

Agreed.

Northernhibee
24-11-2018, 06:10 PM
Emperors New Clothes.

Here’s Lucy!
24-11-2018, 06:10 PM
Midfield. We need a midfield.

mcfly
24-11-2018, 06:18 PM
Enough said

Too many passengers who are taking us to a bottom 6 finish

Bit harsh

We are in a bit of a slump at the moment but that’s up to the manager to sort it.

I agree the last 2 home games have been dreadful and on this form I would not be signing Mclaren permanently.

Mallan I thought hid today. Very very poor game and contributed nil he needs dropped and has to up his workload

flash
24-11-2018, 06:18 PM
No problem pal.. the sad realisation has just set in that this is going to be a crap season.. probably looking at a bottom 6 finish

That's a normal season for us.

biscuitersed75
24-11-2018, 06:19 PM
Neither striker can hold the ball when played up to them, so we are constantly scrapping for balls in the midfield, an activity the midfield are unsuited for. I also question the wisdom of playing all three Australian players after the break.Nail on head with your first sentence. Lack of forward hold up play has been a problem all season and this puts pressure on our midfielders who aren't able to deal with it. Was same at Aberdeen until Lewis Allan came on and made a difference. Why Lennon won't give him a run of games escapes me. Give him a chance, let's see if he can make a difference. Instead, he drops him from the squad today and brings in Gullan. Baffling.

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J-C
24-11-2018, 06:35 PM
Stop playing a back 3 and get a rwb that's fit to cover for Gray, allow Boyle the freedom to attack instead of defending also,another strong midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and control a game, zero guile out there today. Disappointed in Horgan, MacLaren and Kamberi, it's like playing 2 men light at times. Our squad is badly imbalanced, the summer window is now beginning to look a poor one. Not convinced with Lennon right now, needs to get this sorted or he could be looking for a new job, after last season this is very poor, it's now his team and they're pish.

Ilovehibs
24-11-2018, 06:43 PM
Stop playing a back 3 and get a rwb that's fit to cover for Gray, allow Boyle the freedom to attack instead of defending also,another strong midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and control a game, zero guile out there today. Disappointed in Horgan, MacLaren and Kamberi, it's like playing 2 men light at times. Our squad is badly imbalanced, the summer window is now beginning to look a poor one. Not convinced with Lennon right now, needs to get this sorted or he could be looking for a new job, after last season this is very poor, it's now his team and they're pish.

100% agree

houstonhibbee
24-11-2018, 06:44 PM
Stop playing a back 3 and get a rwb that's fit to cover for Gray, allow Boyle the freedom to attack instead of defending also,another strong midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and control a game, zero guile out there today. Disappointed in Horgan, MacLaren and Kamberi, it's like playing 2 men light at times. Our squad is badly imbalanced, the summer window is now beginning to look a poor one. Not convinced with Lennon right now, needs to get this sorted or he could be looking for a new job, after last season this is very poor, it's now his team and they're pish.
I think reality is that last season was the exception not the rule
players we had last season in midfield don’t come free
who woukd you replace Lennon with?

wookie70
24-11-2018, 06:52 PM
Nonsense
we still have the best manager we’ve had probably in 30years itt can’t always be smooth sailing so stop greeting

He might be one of the best man managers(have my doubts about that after some of the insipid performance of late) but he doesn't seem to have an eye for a player and struggles to put a formation out that doesn't look disjointed. He has signed loads of ball players so they do click occasionally. That will never carry you through a whole season though.

This is really the fist season he has had more of his players playing than Stubbs' players and it isn't pretty. Most of his signing have to wait for a Stubbs signing to leave or be injured to get ahead of them. We lack drive, leadership, organisation and most of all any competition/options up front. Shaw and Allen look no worse than Flo or McLaren but they are often not even on the bench. The next 5 or 6 weeks are going to be crucial for Lennon and Hibs. Loads of big games where we have been poor this year without the midfield core that Stubbs created. It's football though and a lucky win or good performance can change this very quickly. David Gray is desperately required as that may force Lennon to look at the shape again. Hanlon getting fit again will also make a big difference but he was terrible today. I'd probably get Bartley in the engine room as soon as possible. We need to stop leaking goals and we don't have the players in the squad to fix things up front so have to persevere with Flo and McLaren. They look a shadow of last season's partnership without the midfield we had.

Michael
24-11-2018, 06:56 PM
Get Stubbs in as DoF. Dream team.

HUTCHYHIBBY
24-11-2018, 06:59 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

Just the two aye? 😱

HUTCHYHIBBY
24-11-2018, 07:01 PM
Aberdeen and Hearts forums are probably full of similar hysteria tonight.

Who cares?

EH54
24-11-2018, 07:13 PM
Not even going to defend them l, I thought it was to do with shape, personnel, players missing etc. Nah we are just rank rotten tbh. Midfield is so slow it's unreal. Horgan looks like a 5 aside player. Complete new midfield needed ASAP. And a quality striker. And David gray back. Aye we're crap.

Weegreenman
24-11-2018, 07:19 PM
We’re a team still in transition. We knew we’d lose our midfield and we knew we’d struggle to replace them like for like but we never knew we’d still be at square one midway through the season having tried several new players that just haven’t cut it so far. No bloody wonder the manager was considering his position allegedly :boo hoo:

GreenCastle
24-11-2018, 07:19 PM
We looked tired / unfit today - slightly worrying as so many games coming up.

Another injury but least Hanlon is back.

matty_f
24-11-2018, 07:21 PM
Hibs are not dreadful, but we were today.

Lago
24-11-2018, 07:24 PM
Missing Gray badly....
1 man shouldn't make a team.

emerald green
24-11-2018, 07:29 PM
I'm looking forward to hearing what NL has to say about that performance today. It's a game Hibs could well have lost to the worst team in the league. To lose a goal like that right on the stroke of HT was very naive and gave Dundee all the encouragement they needed.

Even more frustrating was the fact Hearts, Aberdeen, Livingston all lost, and Kilmarnock & St Johnstone drew. We never, or seldom seem to, take advantage when the teams around us drop points.Hibs have gone back badly since last season.

Wheat Hound
24-11-2018, 07:50 PM
I wouldn't say dreadful. Just plain average without SJM, Dylan or SA. Destined for midtable mediocrity.

J-C
24-11-2018, 07:50 PM
I think reality is that last season was the exception not the rule
players we had last season in midfield don’t come free
who woukd you replace Lennon with?


Really haven't thought as far as who would replace him, this is his team and recently we have been rank rotten, we knew replacing that midfield would be hard but he's brought in multiple attacking midfielders without thinking about the nitty gritty bit of midfield, players like Horgan, Mallan, Hyndman and treatment table Agyepong are small weak players who are no good in games like today when you have to get stuck in. Add to that 2 strikers who look like they've just met and 2 new winbacks that are either injured or very unfit and it just looks really bad right now.

EH54
24-11-2018, 07:54 PM
Hibs are not dreadful, but we were today.

And most of the last 13 games. We are dreadful. No defending it.

Captain Trips
24-11-2018, 07:54 PM
Not good enough guys, not good enough at all. 3pts chucked away and really a game that should have been 3pts all day. The fact we were 2 up beggers belief.

Time to start producing guys and fast. Yet again Hibs most dangerous opponent is Hibs.

HappyAsHellas
24-11-2018, 07:56 PM
The second abysmal home performance in a row does not bode well for the rest of the season. We were outplayed for quite a lot of the game today, in much the same way as we were against St Johnstone. Kamberi never held one ball up today that I remember and Horgan is a slower version of Boyle, runs a lot but clearly out of his depth at this level. Why Boyle is undroppable is anyone's guess as their left back never broke into a sweat against him today. Agyepong looked like he can create chances and it's a shame he got injured. Why did Lennon sign Mavrias and Nelom? Seriously? Because if they're behind the likes of Horgan in the football sense then they truly must be woeful. Bitterly disappointing and starting to wonder if Lennon actually knows what he needs to do, apart from buying midfielders and strikers obviously.
This is not a knee jerk reaction to today's performance, just what seems obvious over the last month or so. If that's what Lennon blew the player budget on, then I for one am truly worried.

BSEJVT
24-11-2018, 08:00 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

Other than the first 30 seconds we were far from good at any point today.

That was like a throwback to poorer performances under Stubbs in D1.

I would exempt Bogdan but I thought everyone else was way below par.

Lennon needs to cut out kidding we are like Brazil 70 full of flair and ability and get us competing again.

We have signed so many poor players this season its unreal.

Kamberi & McLaren have been absolutely diabolical this season and after a bright start Horgan is in danger of eclipsing them by being worse.

I haven't seen any pre match stuff so don't know if Nelom and Mavrias are injured but why the hell do we keep signing back up full backs who never get anywhere near the team.

If Kamberi had started like he has played this season he would be getting the same level of grief the Colin Nish's of this world got in the past.

If he isn't fit, get the op to get him fit as right now he is contributing absolutely nothing

gaz1875
24-11-2018, 08:00 PM
Stop playing a back 3 and get a rwb that's fit to cover for Gray, allow Boyle the freedom to attack instead of defending also,another strong midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and control a game, zero guile out there today. Disappointed in Horgan, MacLaren and Kamberi, it's like playing 2 men light at times. Our squad is badly imbalanced, the summer window is now beginning to look a poor one. Not convinced with Lennon right now, needs to get this sorted or he could be looking for a new job, after last season this is very poor, it's now his team and they're pish.

Couldn't agree more, back 3 against a winger doesn't work, Efe gets isolated and gets no support. Mallan is never a playmaker, he needs moved further forward, baffles me why our best striker of a ball is sitting on the half way line, and don't get me started on his feeble efforts to tackle or track players.

EH54
24-11-2018, 08:04 PM
Bit harsh

We are in a bit of a slump at the moment but that’s up to the manager to sort it.

I agree the last 2 home games have been dreadful and on this form I would not be signing Mclaren permanently.

Mallan I thought hid today. Very very poor game and contributed nil he needs dropped and has to up his workload

Mallan doesn't score it makes him look worse. His right foot makes up for a lot. Having said that if we had another grafter with a bit quality behind him to allow him to operate closer to the oppositions box I think it would be better to allow him more shots off.

Fife-Hibee
24-11-2018, 08:45 PM
Average? This was shockingly worse than average. We gave away a 2 goal lead on our own patch to a team rooted at the bottom of the table. Not only that, we just about ended up with nothing.

Something is seriously a miss at the moment and i'm not buying that "just a bad day at the office" gibberish. We've been piss poor for the past several games or so.

Hibernia&Alba
24-11-2018, 08:58 PM
Today was very disheartening. 2-0 up at home against the bottom side - no excuse for not winning. It feels like a defeat.

Tough run of games approaching means we need to dig deep now.

brog
24-11-2018, 08:59 PM
So in this thread I've read that Horgan, Kamberi, MacLaren & Mallan are all garbage. How many on here said that when we resigned K & Mac & how many were disgusted at the signings of Mallan & Horgan? Blackpool was the only poster I saw who questioned Jamie Mac's ability & he was shouted down by the great majority on here. Now everyone's an expert after the fact. As for Kamara, a week or so back people were saying we dodged a bullet by not signing him. Now he's joined Leigh & SA in the pantheon of the ones that got away.
I don't really want to join in the game blame but going from a 6 -0 victory to a barely recogniseable team with Lewis in a back 3 in our next game caused confusion & disruption. Regardless I have absolutely no doubt we'll get back on track & will have a top 6 finish. All sport is confidence & right now we're low on it. One good result & everything changes. It could be worse, we may not have scored & conceded 11 in our last 5 games!!

telford hibbee
24-11-2018, 09:20 PM
We looked tired / unfit today - slightly worrying as so many games coming up.

Another injury but least Hanlon is back.25% of the team must have been jet lagged. I’m not sure why all three were playing to be honest. I really wish kamberi would stop looking for the defender and go and win the ball, it’s the same every week .

One Day Soon
24-11-2018, 10:02 PM
Aberdeen and Hearts forums are probably full of similar hysteria tonight.


And one or two of the posters on here will be regular posters on the Hearts ones too...

Fife-Hibee
24-11-2018, 10:04 PM
And one or two of the posters on here will be regular posters on the Hearts ones too...

The delusional ones who think we've played great when we clearly haven't?

Hermit Crab
24-11-2018, 10:19 PM
We were poor but I genuinely blame the ref

Let Dundee away with everything, fouls and handballs

You get these decisions and you get more chances

Yes we can improve but these useless ****s from the sfa ruin football every ****ing week


:faf:

You're seriously blaming the ref for us bottling it at 2-0 up? Away with you man. Hibs are pish and we have been for weeks now.

Smartie
24-11-2018, 10:49 PM
Mallan doesn't score it makes him look worse. His right foot makes up for a lot. Having said that if we had another grafter with a bit quality behind him to allow him to operate closer to the oppositions box I think it would be better to allow him more shots off.

I think he might be a second striker / number 10.

He's clearly a good player, but I fear that any midfield he plays in will be overrun.

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 10:52 PM
And one or two of the posters on here will be regular posters on the Hearts ones too...

Utterly pish patter.

Hibernia&Alba
24-11-2018, 10:54 PM
It's all a wee big niggly, chaps. Imagine the state the state of this thread if we'd lost from 2-0 up! Total carnage :greengrin

One Day Soon
24-11-2018, 10:59 PM
Utterly pish patter.

You doubt it?

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 11:00 PM
You doubt it?

Yup.

One Day Soon
24-11-2018, 11:01 PM
Yup.

Fair enough. I don't. One or two posters are absolutely honking of it.

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 11:04 PM
Fair enough. I don't. One or two posters are absolutely honking of it.

To be fair I read your post as being having a go at people who have been moaning about our performance today/recently. That doesn’t seem to be the case so apologies.

Hermit Crab
24-11-2018, 11:06 PM
Fair enough. I don't. One or two posters are absolutely honking of it.


Then use the report function for admins to deal with it if you think there are undercover fans on this site/threads, personally I think the site is pretty clean in regards to undercovers. If we have them they're staying incognito.

Crab apple
24-11-2018, 11:07 PM
Ffs. Hardly dreadful. A poor run but we’ll turn it around, particularly with the right signings in January. We’re seven points behind the yams in third and have a game in hand. They haven't scored in four games and I'm confident we’ll be above them season end.

calumhibee1
24-11-2018, 11:09 PM
Ffs. Hardly dreadful. A poor run but we’ll turn it around, particularly with the right signings in January. We’re seven points behind the yams in third and have a game in hand. They haven't scored in four games and I'm confident we’ll be above them season end.

I wouldn’t be particularly confident of the right signings in January. Last January was Lennons only real success out of 4 transfer windows. The evidence would suggest were more likely to have a mediocre/poor window than a repeat of last January which is required.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
24-11-2018, 11:16 PM
We look a very average side as this season develops.

We dont have a settled team, a settled shape, and its not clear what the players are trying to do. And we are soft as ***** at the back again.

I think we are paying the price for a very poor summer of recruitment, and for lennon now not having a clue what his best team is.

Pinning our hopes on January is always the sign of a team in trouble.

One Day Soon
24-11-2018, 11:20 PM
To be fair I read your post as being having a go at people who have been moaning about our performance today/recently. That doesn’t seem to be the case so apologies.


No need to apologise.

There are clearly criticisms to be made of the way we've been playing and of some players. I think we're lacking a metronome in our midfield to control play, both to slow it down when it suits us and to pick the early forward pass when it is on. The sort of player who, when you get the right one, brings everyone else into the game and gets you the full value from their abilities. That could be Scott Allan or it could be someone else altogether.

I think Kamberi and McLaren can be an excellent forward pairing for us but they a) haven't had a lot of game time together b) have had weak to poor service so far and c) one or both of them hasn't been/isn't fully fit.

We also have players taking too many touches and too long to play a forward pass. They need quicker thinking and decision making.

Our defence has been chopped and changed through injury. Hanlon and Porteous will be a rock solid base to build on. Bogdan just gets better and better in my view.

Bottom line: we over performed last year by some distance. Where we finished was probably a couple of years ahead of where I expected us to be in our development post-promotion. So far this year we are under performing on where I would have expected us to be by this stage, but not by much as there are so few points between where we are and second place and the major surgery was always going to be a slow and tough recovery.

Having said all that there are clearly some utter Yam roasters on this and other threads. I say to them, we've been pish and we're still only seven points behind you with a game in hand.

wookie70
24-11-2018, 11:23 PM
I wouldn’t be particularly confident of the right signings in January. Last January was Lennons only real success out of 4 transfer windows. The evidence would suggest were more likely to have a mediocre/poor window than a repeat of last January which is required.

That is what worries me. Allen, Flo and McLaren worked brilliantly last year but maybe that was a result of the way they dropped into the existing team and everyone played well off each other. Most of the windows Lennon has presided over have been poor with few of the players forcing their way into the team against player signed in the Stubbs era. I also worry that there isn't a master plan as many on here suggested that we were very lightweight in midfield and short up front. Injuries haven't helped but that has turned out to be the case imo. There are quite a few teams above us who would say they have had at least as many injuries as us too so I don't think that is an excuse.

Let's hope he manages to find the right formula in January as the team today is probably our strongest line up. It looks weak in the middle and lacks energy. We also look a tired team today but that may be due to the Australian contingent recovering from their trip.

Glory Lurker
24-11-2018, 11:28 PM
I wouldn’t be particularly confident of the right signings in January. Last January was Lennons only real success out of 4 transfer windows. The evidence would suggest were more likely to have a mediocre/poor window than a repeat of last January which is required.

I think this nails it. Although how the windows have been managed is far from just NL's responsibility.

percy veer
24-11-2018, 11:28 PM
Usual knee jerk reactions
bitterly disappointing yes but we were very good for 44 minutes and then lost our way
were just two players short of being a very good team again
scott Allan is one

Usual knee jerk reactions! Been garbage for months actual garbage. Not good enough change needed squad no reacting

Criswell
25-11-2018, 12:17 AM
I have to admit there are definitely worrying signs of a team on the slide. If the perception of opposing teams is to regard us as "soft" I would have to agree with them. We are going to come against many teams, like Dundee today, who are going to turn games into a "battle". We seem to lack the necessary skills and the physicality to overcome them.

NAE NOOKIE
25-11-2018, 01:11 AM
I said on another thread that a failure to win today would get the alarm bells ringing and it has, not only in that we didn't win, but the way we didn't win. To chuck away a two goal lead at home to arguably the worst team in the league has to be unacceptable …. I never expect Hibs to win games as a matter of course no matter who we are playing, but from two nil up against that opposition I do and it has to be a concern that we didn't.

We had far too many players today who weren't up to the challenge of a Dundee team who were IMO far from over physical …. we have a midfield who cant compete physically and its beginning to show in game after game. That could be nullified if they were smart enough to outplay the opposition, but apart from in short bursts they aren't doing that either.

I'm not that impressed with players being tired after international duty either … the top players play international after international and still manage to maintain a level of performance and I expect Hibs to be able to manage that situation. If they are tired now how the hell are they going to cope with 8 matches in a month? You cant have your cake and eat it, there's no point in the club boasting about signing international players and then using it as an excuse for poor performances … not that they have, but its been said on here by more than one poster.

I certainly wasn't complaining when we re signed Kamberi and MacLaren and Mallan and Horgan looked like good signings as well, so this certainly isn't an 'I told you so' …. but so far this season not one of them has reached anywhere like the level they were at last season or has shown the level of performance I wanted to see in the case of Horgan and Mallan … yes Mallan has scored a few goals, but as part of the midfield he doesn't bring that much, certainly not when it comes to doing the dirty work when its required, something Dylan McGeough did bring and he wasn't any bigger than Mallan. As for Horgan …. the more I see him in midfield the more I'm convinced he is a winger being played out of position.

After the trials and tribulations which eventually lead to our demise it was my understanding that the consensus amongst the fans was that two fundamental things were to blame … 1) Poor signings and a lot of the time the wrong signings … 2) The club failing to see or ignoring the warning signs until it was far far too late.

We aren't at that stage yet, but I for one am a lot less prepared to accept results like today … I don't know how Neil Lennon is going to fix this run of decidedly average form, but whatever it is he needs to do I suggest he gets the finger out and starts doing it. Because if we take this run of form into December this place is going to be in meltdown by the first of January.

Borderhibbie76
25-11-2018, 08:52 AM
I said on another thread that a failure to win today would get the alarm bells ringing and it has, not only in that we didn't win, but the way we didn't win. To chuck away a two goal lead at home to arguably the worst team in the league has to be unacceptable …. I never expect Hibs to win games as a matter of course no matter who we are playing, but from two nil up against that opposition I do and it has to be a concern that we didn't.

We had far too many players today who weren't up to the challenge of a Dundee team who were IMO far from over physical …. we have a midfield who cant compete physically and its beginning to show in game after game. That could be nullified if they were smart enough to outplay the opposition, but apart from in short bursts they aren't doing that either.

I'm not that impressed with players being tired after international duty either … the top players play international after international and still manage to maintain a level of performance and I expect Hibs to be able to manage that situation. If they are tired now how the hell are they going to cope with 8 matches in a month? You cant have your cake and eat it, there's no point in the club boasting about signing international players and then using it as an excuse for poor performances … not that they have, but its been said on here by more than one poster.

I certainly wasn't complaining when we re signed Kamberi and MacLaren and Mallan and Horgan looked like good signings as well, so this certainly isn't an 'I told you so' …. but so far this season not one of them has reached anywhere like the level they were at last season or has shown the level of performance I wanted to see in the case of Horgan and Mallan … yes Mallan has scored a few goals, but as part of the midfield he doesn't bring that much, certainly not when it comes to doing the dirty work when its required, something Dylan McGeough did bring and he wasn't any bigger than Mallan. As for Horgan …. the more I see him in midfield the more I'm convinced he is a winger being played out of position.

After the trials and tribulations which eventually lead to our demise it was my understanding that the consensus amongst the fans was that two fundamental things were to blame … 1) Poor signings and a lot of the time the wrong signings … 2) The club failing to see or ignoring the warning signs until it was far far too late.

We aren't at that stage yet, but I for one am a lot less prepared to accept results like today … I don't know how Neil Lennon is going to fix this run of decidedly average form, but whatever it is he needs to do I suggest he gets the finger out and starts doing it. Because if we take this run of form into December this place is going to be in meltdown by the first of January.Excellent post mate nailed it 100%

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

K.Marx
25-11-2018, 08:57 AM
Get Mallan further up the park. Playing off Kamberi if needs be. This deep lying player role he’s in nullifies his main threat - shooting.

Jones28
25-11-2018, 09:06 AM
Get Mallan further up the park. Playing off Kamberi if needs be. This deep lying player role he’s in nullifies his main threat - shooting.

Agree with that

Hibbyradge
25-11-2018, 11:10 AM
We created at least 5 guilt edged chances in the first half

Guilt edged?

Maybe that's why we didn't take them? :wink: :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2018, 11:24 AM
I wouldn’t be particularly confident of the right signings in January. Last January was Lennons only real success out of 4 transfer windows. The evidence would suggest were more likely to have a mediocre/poor window than a repeat of last January which is required.

You keep saying this, which windows under Lennon were failures?

Hermit Crab
25-11-2018, 01:08 PM
Send Agyepong back as well as he just cant stay fit.

Dashing Bob S
25-11-2018, 01:21 PM
Not going to swim in the sea of melodrama on this thread, but there are three things aparant to me:

1. We are underperforming with our current squad.
2. We need more creativity in the midfield
3. Our defense is poor and is transitioning. I’m thinking that Hanlon and Stevenson are probably now past their best and need replaced as first team picks

NAE NOOKIE
25-11-2018, 01:21 PM
Send Agyepong back as well as he just cant stay fit.

Which is a shame, because yesterday he showed he has a lot to offer if he could stay fit, in a couple of cameo performances he has shown that he can be a real handful.

Dashing Bob S
25-11-2018, 01:23 PM
Which is a shame, because yesterday he showed he has a lot to offer if he could stay fit, in a couple of cameo performances he has shown that he can be a real handful.

It is a shame but his career since arriving at ER suggests he’s not going to make it.

Hermit Crab
25-11-2018, 01:23 PM
Which is a shame, because yesterday he showed he has a lot to offer if he could stay fit, in a couple of cameo performances he has shown that he can be a real handful.


It is a shame but he's absolutely no use to us side lined for 6 months of a season.

The 90+2
25-11-2018, 02:16 PM
So in this thread I've read that Horgan, Kamberi, MacLaren & Mallan are all garbage. How many on here said that when we resigned K & Mac & how many were disgusted at the signings of Mallan & Horgan? Blackpool was the only poster I saw who questioned Jamie Mac's ability & he was shouted down by the great majority on here. Now everyone's an expert after the fact. As for Kamara, a week or so back people were saying we dodged a bullet by not signing him. Now he's joined Leigh & SA in the pantheon of the ones that got away.
I don't really want to join in the game blame but going from a 6 -0 victory to a barely recogniseable team with Lewis in a back 3 in our next game caused confusion & disruption. Regardless I have absolutely no doubt we'll get back on track & will have a top 6 finish. All sport is confidence & right now we're low on it. One good result & everything changes. It could be worse, we may not have scored & conceded 11 in our last 5 games!!

Top six is utter failure if 6th or 5th and crowds will descend. It’s not pant wetting either it’s reality.

All summer it was pant wetting this pant wetting that waiting for the “quality” instead of getting players in early. Well now it seems that there’s been no preparation for the departures of Allan McGinn and McGeough as well as Barker. None. Nada. We should have had players scouted our from the middle of last year. What we got was a hefty transfer fee with a loan signing and Stevie Mallan.

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2018, 02:21 PM
Top six is utter failure if 6th or 5th and crowds will descend. It’s not pant wetting either it’s reality.

All summer it was pant wetting this pant wetting that waiting for the “quality” instead of getting players in early. Well now it seems that there’s been no preparation for the departures of Allan McGinn and McGeough as well as Barker. None. Nada. We should have had players scouted our from the middle of last year. What we got was a hefty transfer fee with a loan signing and Stevie Mallan.

What would you have done to replace the three players that left our midfield in the summer, that would have seen us be as good as a 4th place finish, which is still achievable?

The Leith Dutch
25-11-2018, 02:29 PM
If u think that's acceptable mate u need to seriously re-think it was nowhere and I mean nowhere near the standard required I'm afraid

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Except he didn't say he thought it was acceptable.

B.H.F.C
25-11-2018, 02:33 PM
We need more creativity in the midfield


Seen this mentioned quite a lot but I think there are a number of creative players in there who will make chances when played in the right part of the pitch.

I think the midfield is a problem. But I think it a lack of dig and ability to control the game that is the issue. Not the creativity. It’s just unbalanced.

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2018, 02:34 PM
Seen this mentioned quite a lot but I think there are a number of creative players in there who will make chances when played in the right part of the pitch.

I think the midfield is a problem. But I think it a lack of dig and ability to control the game that is the issue. Not the creativity. It’s just unbalanced.

:agree:
going forward we are fine, we just dont defend very well from the front.

The Modfather
25-11-2018, 02:36 PM
You keep saying this, which windows under Lennon were failures?

Probably more relevant for its own thread or one of the recruitment threads as I do think there is a constructive debate to be had around our recruitment under Lennon. I agree with Callum.

IMO the summer and winter windows in Lennons first season weren’t really a success. With the same failings not addressed as we had under Stubbs, namely unable to kill teams off and concede cheap goals. We finished with 1 point more than the previous season in a league without Rangers. It was enough in the end but there was a school of thought at the time we were spending the minimum needed so we could have a bigger budget for the following season. If true, it paid off but was a grim season to watch.

After last summers window we still had the same problems in not killing teams off and conceding cheap goals. We then jettisoned our marquee signing and his strike partner after 6 months. The January window far exceeded all our expectations, but, IMO, due to not properly addressing our issues in the summer we left ourselves too much to do to finish higher than 4th - which was a good finish but a better summer window could have transformed a good season into an excellent one.

This summer, probably still too early to fully judge but the alarm bells are there and major surgery is needed in January. Think we’re all broadly in agreement that as a minimum the recruitment of the midfield has been very poor. Which isn’t to say the individuals are all bad players, but collectively the midfield is very unbalanced and simply not good enough.

wookie70
25-11-2018, 02:38 PM
What would you have done to replace the three players that left our midfield in the summer, that would have seen us be as good as a 4th place finish, which is still achievable?

Aberdeen have managed top replace players and still finish up the league. They are in a better spot to offer more wages but then they are away up in the north with expensive housing. If they can we can. St Johnstone seem to be able to hold a similar level year after year too and Kilmarnock look to be building too. It was never going to be easy to replace like for like with those that departed but we didn't need to do that. We needed to choose a system or choose players that would work in a system. It looks like Lennon has bought players, except Milligan, who are first and foremost good ball players. That is buying players not building a squad or trying to replace a midfield unit. Can anyone see what system we are trying to play with the squad and where the sensible 2 first team players and a development player for every position has went.

Lewis A comes in does well and is nowhere to be seen for months, comes in does well and is nowhere to be seen the next game. We have had at least 6 captains this year. Shaw was playing regularly and doing well last season and is often nowhere to be seen. Porteous drops out for a few games possibly because of injury but is still on the bench. We start games with no recognised centre forward on the bench. Formations and personnel change on a weekly basis and are never given a chance to settle.
We have been a wee bit unlucky with injuries but that is to be expected having been very lucky last year.

My view is we bought poorly in the summer in terms of building the squad. The players are not disastrous but they are very similar and we are lacking in key areas particularly up top. That was obvious before a ball was kicked so did we run out of money, did we miss a key target or were we happy with what we had. If it is the latter then we have clearly made a mistake and that would have been true even if Flo and McLaren were fighting fit every week.

brog
25-11-2018, 02:40 PM
Top six is utter failure if 6th or 5th and crowds will descend. It’s not pant wetting either it’s reality.

All summer it was pant wetting this pant wetting that waiting for the “quality” instead of getting players in early. Well now it seems that there’s been no preparation for the departures of Allan McGinn and McGeough as well as Barker. None. Nada. We should have had players scouted our from the middle of last year. What we got was a hefty transfer fee with a loan signing and Stevie Mallan.

In hindsight you can criticise the signings we've made but its abject nonsense to say there was no prep, nada, to quote you, to prepare for the departures of the 4 players you mention. Its pretty simple really, Agyepong, the loan player from Man C replaced Barker, the loan player from Man C
Hyndman, the loan player & internationalist replaced the loan player Allan. Horgan & Mallan replaced SJM & DM. Are the replacements as good? In the case of SJM obviously not but its far too early to write off the others. To summarise we replaced 4 midfield players with 4 midfield players, 2 internationalists & 2 underage internationalists. That seems to me like top class succession planning. Now all we need is for them to perform better!

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2018, 02:42 PM
Probably more relevant for its own thread or one of the recruitment threads as I do think there is a constructive debate to be had around our recruitment under Lennon. I agree with Callum.

IMO the summer and winter windows in Lennons first season weren’t really a success. With the same failings not addressed as we had under Stubbs, namely unable to kill teams off and concede cheap goals. We finished with 1 point more than the previous season in a league without Rangers. It was enough in the end but there was a school of thought at the time we were spending the minimum needed so we could have a bigger budget for the following season. If true, it paid off but was a grim season to watch.

After last summers window we still had the same problems in not killing teams off and conceding cheap goals. We then jettisoned our marquee signing and his strike partner after 6 months. The January window far exceeded all our expectations, but, IMO, due to not properly addressing our issues in the summer we left ourselves too much to do to finish higher than 4th - which was a good finish but a better summer window could have transformed a good season into an excellent one.

This summer, probably still to early to fully judge but the alarm bells are there and major surgery is needed in January. Think we’re all broadly in agreement that as a minimum the recruitment of the midfield has been very poor. Which isn’t to say the individuals are all bad players, but collectively the midfield is very unbalanced and simply not good enough.

We did enough in all the previous windows to get us further up the league we were in, which in my book is success.

The last window was obviously going to be the hardest because of what needed replaced, and may take in fact will take more than one window to succeed if we even do succeed.

wookie70
25-11-2018, 02:56 PM
In hindsight you can criticise the signings we've made but its abject nonsense to say there was no prep, nada, to quote you, to prepare for the departures of the 4 players you mention. Its pretty simple really, Agyepong, the loan player from Man C replaced Barker, the loan player from Man C
Hyndman, the loan player & internationalist replaced the loan player Allan. Horgan & Mallan replaced SJM & DM. Are the replacements as good? In the case of SJM obviously not but its far too early to write off the others. To summarise we replaced 4 midfield players with 4 midfield players, 2 internationalists & 2 underage internationalists. That seems to me like top class succession planning. Now all we need is for them to perform better!

I don't think we have a box to box midfielder and we are crying out for one. That to me is the biggest part of the plan that failed to be implemented. May well be we missed a target but then there should have been back up targets. Horgan and Mallan are nothing like SJM and Dylan so the plan must have been to play a different way. If so, I can't see what that is at the moment because we are so inconsistent and lack a style of play.

The disallowed goal yesterday is probably the type of sweeping fast style we are aiming for but it is no use doing that if Mallan and Horgan stand and watch runners flood towards our goal. We look imbalanced in midfield and that to me says we have failed to plan properly or it will take more than one window.

The 90+2
25-11-2018, 03:06 PM
What would you have done to replace the three players that left our midfield in the summer, that would have seen us be as good as a 4th place finish, which is still achievable?

I wouldn’t have done anything in the summer. I would have spent the last year prior to the summer scouting and sounding out players to sign on pre contracts in January or bring in as soon as the summer window opened. We didn’t though we brought in Mallan and then done the usual fannying about at the last wee while of the window and when that happened it was because apparently the quality we are looking for where going to be available come the end of the window, which made no sense considering we had a whole year to prepare for the departure, it’s not as if it came as any shock. Look at Aberdeen, knew they where losing their best midfielder, signed the lad Ferguson to replace him as soon as the window opened. We get Hyndman on loan and Horgan.

Fourth? No chance.

calumhibee1
25-11-2018, 03:16 PM
Probably more relevant for its own thread or one of the recruitment threads as I do think there is a constructive debate to be had around our recruitment under Lennon. I agree with Callum.

IMO the summer and winter windows in Lennons first season weren’t really a success. With the same failings not addressed as we had under Stubbs, namely unable to kill teams off and concede cheap goals. We finished with 1 point more than the previous season in a league without Rangers. It was enough in the end but there was a school of thought at the time we were spending the minimum needed so we could have a bigger budget for the following season. If true, it paid off but was a grim season to watch.

After last summers window we still had the same problems in not killing teams off and conceding cheap goals. We then jettisoned our marquee signing and his strike partner after 6 months. The January window far exceeded all our expectations, but, IMO, due to not properly addressing our issues in the summer we left ourselves too much to do to finish higher than 4th - which was a good finish but a better summer window could have transformed a good season into an excellent one.

This summer, probably still too early to fully judge but the alarm bells are there and major surgery is needed in January. Think we’re all broadly in agreement that as a minimum the recruitment of the midfield has been very poor. Which isn’t to say the individuals are all bad players, but collectively the midfield is very unbalanced and simply not good enough.

Saved me typing it.

If the 4 windows he has had have been a success then we’d be in a much better place than we are now regardless of the fact we lost our midfield three. As it is we’re an average team in the Scottish Premiership and our league position probably reflects our current squads standard. Because of the fact that we lost two great players he inherited and one that he brought in during his successful window, we’re now left with the players from the other 3 windows to fit in with the players Stubbs signed and we’re now a mid table team. That to me is a failure.

The 90+2
25-11-2018, 03:23 PM
In hindsight you can criticise the signings we've made but its abject nonsense to say there was no prep, nada, to quote you, to prepare for the departures of the 4 players you mention. Its pretty simple really, Agyepong, the loan player from Man C replaced Barker, the loan player from Man C
Hyndman, the loan player & internationalist replaced the loan player Allan. Horgan & Mallan replaced SJM & DM. Are the replacements as good? In the case of SJM obviously not but its far too early to write off the others. To summarise we replaced 4 midfield players with 4 midfield players, 2 internationalists & 2 underage internationalists. That seems to me like top class succession planning. Now all we need is for them to perform better!

Horgan and Mallan replaced McGinn and McGeough? A winger and a player that doesn’t do much bar set pieces? Really? We spent a whole year replacing them with a winger and someone the opposite of McGinn? How does that make any sense at all? Our new winger from city we just brother in to Hope was near the same level as Barker and Hyndman for 6 months makes no sense replacing Allan, more like, like the boy from city and the faceless wingbacks they are offered to us and we just take them on and hope for the best.

It shouldn’t be left to hindsight either. We should be able to identify replacements or at least players to match a shape the manager wants us to go in the direction he wants us to.

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2018, 03:26 PM
Aberdeen have managed top replace players and still finish up the league. They are in a better spot to offer more wages but then they are away up in the north with expensive housing. If they can we can. St Johnstone seem to be able to hold a similar level year after year too and Kilmarnock look to be building too. It was never going to be easy to replace like for like with those that departed but we didn't need to do that. We needed to choose a system or choose players that would work in a system. It looks like Lennon has bought players, except Milligan, who are first and foremost good ball players. That is buying players not building a squad or trying to replace a midfield unit. Can anyone see what system we are trying to play with the squad and where the sensible 2 first team players and a development player for every position has went.

Aberdeen did not spend 3 seasons in the 2nd division, and built their squad when it was easier without Hibs and Rangers and even Hearts for 1 season, and they have much more money to spend too.

St Johnstone are not a club i'd like us to be compared with, but if we are, they too have kept the same manager through thick and thin, and he's allowed to build his teams over many years.

Killie have done well, it is allowed, lets see how long it lasts?

Our squad is a couple light, but its also had way too many injuries this season to have any cohesion about it. Kamberi McLaren Gray Hanlon McGregor Rocky have all been out for quite a time and throw in Agypong who's hardly played at all, and we as a team have had a stop start season, its no wonder you cant see a system.

Lewis A comes in does well and is nowhere to be seen for months, comes in does well and is nowhere to be seen the next game.

Do you know why he's not in the squad?

We have had at least 6 captains this year.

Completely down to how many injuries we've had.

Shaw was playing regularly and doing well last season and is often nowhere to be seen.

He's picked up injuries, and we signed Kamberi and McLaren who were in front of him all last season when at the club.

Porteous drops out for a few games possibly because of injury but is still on the bench. We start games with no recognised centre forward on the bench. Formations and personnel change on a weekly basis and are never given a chance to settle.
We have been a wee bit unlucky with injuries but that is to be expected having been very lucky last year.

You answered your own question.

My view is we bought poorly in the summer in terms of building the squad. The players are not disastrous but they are very similar and we are lacking in key areas particularly up top.

The players we bought are not as good as the ones we lost, and we are struggling at the moment to find a shape, which will need another window to help sort.

That was obvious before a ball was kicked so did we run out of money, did we miss a key target or were we happy with what we had. If it is the latter then we have clearly made a mistake and that would have been true even if Flo and McLaren were fighting fit every week.

Flo and Kamberi have not been fighting fit, and neither have many others, maybe we did miss out on other targets, can you ever imagine any manager happy with what he has?

How much money do we have to spend?

B.H.F.C
25-11-2018, 03:27 PM
Saved me typing it.

If the 4 windows he has had have been a success then we’d be in a much better place than we are now regardless of the fact we lost our midfield three. As it is we’re an average team in the Scottish Premiership and our league position probably reflects our current squads standard. Because of the fact that we lost two great players he inherited and one that he brought in during his successful window, we’re now left with the players from the other 3 windows to fit in with the players Stubbs signed and we’re now a mid table team. That to me is a failure.

Whilst things aren’t exactly brilliant at the moment, I don’t think we can deem the season to be failure yet. We’re only a third of the way in.

There is still time to turn the league campaign around. Whether we will or not is up for debate but we’re 7 points of third with a game in hand. And we have the most favourable draw you could get in the Scottish.

I happen to think we didn’t recruit as well as we could have in the summer but there is no point in getting hung up on being a ‘mid table’ team when there is 25 games left to play to change that.

cabbageandribs1875
25-11-2018, 03:27 PM
Flo and Kamberi have not been fighting fit, and neither have many others, maybe we did miss out on other targets, can you ever imagine any manager happy with what he has?

How much money do we have to spend?



they're actually both the same player, andy goram however....






:)

Hibbyradge
25-11-2018, 03:28 PM
they're actually both the same player






:)

:tee hee:

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2018, 03:28 PM
they're actually both the same player






:)
:greengrin

I meant McLaren.

Lancs Harp
25-11-2018, 03:29 PM
:greengrin

I meant McLaren.

To replace Flo or Kamberi?:greengrin

brog
25-11-2018, 03:29 PM
I don't think we have a box to box midfielder and we are crying out for one. That to me is the biggest part of the plan that failed to be implemented. May well be we missed a target but then there should have been back up targets. Horgan and Mallan are nothing like SJM and Dylan so the plan must have been to play a different way. If so, I can't see what that is at the moment because we are so inconsistent and lack a style of play.

The disallowed goal yesterday is probably the type of sweeping fast style we are aiming for but it is no use doing that if Mallan and Horgan stand and watch runners flood towards our goal. We look imbalanced in midfield and that to me says we have failed to plan properly or it will take more than one window.

I wouldnt necessarily argue with any of that but that doesnt tell me we failed to prepare properly. It only says to me that we havent been able to replace SJM & lets be honest, we knew that was a very tough ask. On a more general note last season seems to have already become a rosy hued version of the truth. We were torn apart by Hamilton at home & Aberdeen away & threw away a 2 goal lead against Well, which provoked mild hysteria on here, sound familiar? At one stage we also went 9 games where our only 2 victories were against the clubs who were subsequently relegated. Our points per game are currently close to last season's, I suspect we'll be close again at the end of this season.

calumhibee1
25-11-2018, 03:43 PM
Whilst things aren’t exactly brilliant at the moment, I don’t think we can deem the season to be failure yet. We’re only a third of the way in.

There is still time to turn the league campaign around. Whether we will or not is up for debate but we’re 7 points of third with a game in hand. And we have the most favourable draw you could get in the Scottish.

I happen to think we didn’t recruit as well as we could have in the summer but there is no point in getting hung up on being a ‘mid table’ team when there is 25 games left to play to change that.

I’m not so much basing saying we look like a mid table team on the fact that’s where are in the league just now, I’m mostly basing it in the fact that I’d say that’s about the standard we look during games. I think the fact that’s where we are in the league does emphasise the point though.

J-C
25-11-2018, 04:49 PM
In hindsight you can criticise the signings we've made but its abject nonsense to say there was no prep, nada, to quote you, to prepare for the departures of the 4 players you mention. Its pretty simple really, Agyepong, the loan player from Man C replaced Barker, the loan player from Man C
Hyndman, the loan player & internationalist replaced the loan player Allan. Horgan & Mallan replaced SJM & DM. Are the replacements as good? In the case of SJM obviously not but its far too early to write off the others. To summarise we replaced 4 midfield players with 4 midfield players, 2 internationalists & 2 underage internationalists. That seems to me like top class succession planning. Now all we need is for them to perform better!

Please stop naming Horgan as replacing a central midfielder, he's a wide player who's being squeezed into the team as a makeshift midfielder. Lennon did exactly the same last year with Barker, shoehorned him in the number 10 slot to play him when he was most effective coming off the left, the same as Horgan.

If Slivka is not starting we are effectively a man short in the middle because Horgan isn't the answer and neither is Hyndman who looks disinterested when he plays.

Lennon needs to stop play round pegs in square holes.

Lancs Harp
25-11-2018, 05:02 PM
Please stop naming Horgan as replacing a central midfielder, he's a wide player who's being squeezed into the team as a makeshift midfielder. Lennon did exactly the same last year with Barker, shoehorned him in the number 10 slot to play him when he was most effective coming off the left, the same as Horgan.

If Slivka is not starting we are effectively a man short in the middle because Horgan isn't the answer and neither is Hyndman who looks disinterested when he plays.

Lennon needs to stop play round pegs in square holes.

I would tend to agree with that. With the players we have available if Horgan plays he has to play wide. If Slivka plays he has to play in the middle.

brog
25-11-2018, 06:05 PM
Please stop naming Horgan as replacing a central midfielder, he's a wide player who's being squeezed into the team as a makeshift midfielder. Lennon did exactly the same last year with Barker, shoehorned him in the number 10 slot to play him when he was most effective coming off the left, the same as Horgan.

If Slivka is not starting we are effectively a man short in the middle because Horgan isn't the answer and neither is Hyndman who looks disinterested when he plays.

Lennon needs to stop play round pegs in square holes.

I agree your thoughts but im only stating the facts of what we did. Agyepong & Hyndman were the obvious replacements for Bsrker & Allan ergo the other 2 were clearly intended to replace SJM & DM. I also agree about Slivka but NL played him as a winger vs Celtc & others this season

JXM73
25-11-2018, 06:23 PM
Bogdan...a keeper
Need a right back...
Porteous.. potential
Hanlon..get fit..shocker for second goal.
Effe...bombscare but our bombscare...keeper
Stephenson... keeper but can be improved upon
Boyle....keeper
Milligan...keeper
Mallan...keeper but needs to improve wirk rate
Horgan...get tae..heidless chicken
Mclaren... duff season so far
Flo.. needs to man up...

We need a striker and decent playmaker...

Lennon...keeper..

HUTCHYHIBBY
25-11-2018, 06:37 PM
Bogdan...a keeper
Need a right back...
Porteous.. potential
Hanlon..get fit..shocker for second goal.
Effe...bombscare but our bombscare...keeper
Stephenson... keeper but can be improved upon
Boyle....keeper
Milligan...keeper
Mallan...keeper but needs to improve wirk rate
Horgan...get tae..heidless chicken
Mclaren... duff season so far
Flo.. needs to man up...

We need a striker and decent playmaker...

Lennon...keeper..


How many keepers do we need? 😄

Waxy
25-11-2018, 06:43 PM
Bogdan...a keeper
Need a right back...
Porteous.. potential
Hanlon..get fit..shocker for second goal.
Effe...bombscare but our bombscare...keeper
Stephenson... keeper but can be improved upon
Boyle....keeper
Milligan...keeper
Mallan...keeper but needs to improve wirk rate
Horgan...get tae..heidless chicken
Mclaren... duff season so far
Flo.. needs to man up...

We need a striker and decent playmaker...

Lennon...keeper..Leave the goalkepping to Marciano and Bogdan.

BullsCloseHibs
25-11-2018, 06:43 PM
Sounds like we're back to normal again.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
25-11-2018, 06:58 PM
Seen this mentioned quite a lot but I think there are a number of creative players in there who will make chances when played in the right part of the pitch.

I think the midfield is a problem. But I think it a lack of dig and ability to control the game that is the issue. Not the creativity. It’s just unbalanced.

Agree with this.

therealgavmac
25-11-2018, 07:08 PM
To replace Flo or Kamberi?:greengrin

Jamie and McLaren to replace Flo and Kamberi

jeffers
25-11-2018, 07:15 PM
Agree with this.

I disagree.

While his shooting and deadballs are excellent Mallan doesn’t create enough.

Hyndman has offered very little and I hope we send him back in January to free up some wages

I’ve seen so little of Agyepong to form an opinion on his creativity

Horgan looks like he can put in a decent cross but we have no one to attack it, the rest of his game in the main has been disappointing.

I’m not clear who is providing us with the creativity.

familyman
25-11-2018, 08:10 PM
When oh when will Scot Allan come back..there is so little creative imagination and consistency with the new players and Hanlon cleary not ready to play.
Hibs say the buy players that have right attitude...well l et's see it quickly.....

DetroitHibs
25-11-2018, 08:26 PM
When oh when will Scot Allan come back..there is so little creative imagination and consistency with the new players and Hanlon cleary not ready to play.
Hibs say the buy players that have right attitude...well l et's see it quickly.....

Was the same with Kris Commons. He came in and made a huge impact. Didn't get that one either, even though we were crying out for him.

eastmainsmsh
26-11-2018, 10:24 AM
I think it’s new washing powder that they are washing the strips with players are itchy it’s all since rod went to Aldi’s in Tranent and his penny pinching antics have upset not only the players and the laundry staff

NZ Green
26-11-2018, 02:39 PM
I think its just school boy defending that lets us down. I know goal difference isn't the best indicator but it doesn't really reflect our position in the league just now. There's talent there, just no consistency.

southern hibby
27-11-2018, 01:00 AM
Tin hat firmly on. For me NL needs to take responsibility here. He gets lots of praise and rightfully so when it’s due, but this run of form is his responsibility to sort out.

Players being played outside their natural position. For example 3 Centre half’s started on Saturday ( Effe in the right back position ) Natural right back brought in to the squad and not even quoted.

Ended the game with 3 wingers on the pitch. Now I’m sure NL knows that the pitch only has 2 wings so why was Slivka not in midfield?

For anyone who thinks this is a dig, I agree it looks that way but I firmly believe NL will get it sorted and I think if we bring in the correct players to balance the team we can progress as we all want us to.


GGTTH

DetroitHibs
27-11-2018, 01:32 AM
Tin hat firmly on. For me NL needs to take responsibility here. He gets lots of praise and rightfully so when it’s due, but this run of form is his responsibility to sort out.

Players being played outside their natural position. For example 3 Centre half’s started on Saturday ( Effe in the right back position ) Natural right back brought in to the squad and not even quoted.

Ended the game with 3 wingers on the pitch. Now I’m sure NL knows that the pitch only has 2 wings so why was Slivka not in midfield?

For anyone who thinks this is a dig, I agree it looks that way but I firmly believe NL will get it sorted and I think if we bring in the correct players to balance the team we can progress as we all want us to.


GGTTH

I kinda agree, but the game against Dundee, I put squarely on the players. Actually just watched the full game for a second time on Hibs TV, and can't get my head around it. However Lennon set us out worked perfectly. We played them off the park from the first minute until the 42nd. What transpired after Kenny scored completely baffles me. Everything up until that point went out the window and we were murder all second half.

southern hibby
27-11-2018, 02:26 AM
I kinda agree, but the game against Dundee, I put squarely on the players. Actually just watched the full game for a second time on Hibs TV, and can't get my head around it. However Lennon set us out worked perfectly. We played them off the park from the first minute until the 42nd. What transpired after Kenny scored completely baffles me. Everything up until that point went out the window and we were murder all second half.
Before Kenny scored he could have had a goal from his free header. I’m no sure if I want folk to agree with me or not. I’m more interested in watching us sort it out and get players in their natural position and give them a few games there to gel.

Ive read on here that folk think he doesn’t know his best 11, to me it’s like he has his favourites that will play no matter what and we’ll just slot them in somewhere so they play ( I’m not saying that’s what’s happening, that’s what I feel like happens ).

Maybe your right about the players but surely the manager has to manage them. For example last year The Rangers at Easter Road game, we had just drawn with Celtic 2-2 last 20-25 minutes we played Celtic of the field so you would have thought we would start against The Rangers with the same team we finished against Celtic. Nope we went with three up front getting beat from them 2-1 and we take strikers of to move Hanlon up as a centre forward because we had no strikers on the bench to come on.
Now I’m not slaying anyone I’m wondering why we cannot have some consistency in the team and see if the players get in their natural position and take it from there.

GGTTH

MWHIBBIES
27-11-2018, 07:26 AM
Was the same with Kris Commons. He came in and made a huge impact. Didn't get that one either, even though we were crying out for him.

Were you going to pay his enormous wages? Hibs could get 3/4 good players in for what Commons would've been on. We weren't crying out because we got comfortably promoted anyway. Anything for a shot at the board though.

DetroitHibs
27-11-2018, 07:45 AM
Were you going to pay his enormous wages? Hibs could get 3/4 good players in for what Commons would've been on. We weren't crying out because we got comfortably promoted anyway. Anything for a shot at the board though.

I think the board have done a terrible job, that's my opinion. Commons made a huge impact in the few games he played while with us. Most fans and forum members wanted him signed up at the time.

MSK
27-11-2018, 07:58 AM
I think the board have done a terrible job, that's my opinion. Commons made a huge impact in the few games he played while with us. Most fans and forum members wanted him signed up at the time.It was also well known that Commons had a back problem and needed an op (which he had) he possibly agreed with Lennon if he has op and feels up to it he may continue playing, he obviously decided it wasnt worth the risk

MWHIBBIES
27-11-2018, 08:36 AM
I think the board have done a terrible job, that's my opinion. Commons made a huge impact in the few games he played while with us. Most fans and forum members wanted him signed up at the time.

I would like Messi, Modric and Ronaldo picked up. It's obviously that simple, get it sorted Rodders.

It's really not as simple as just wanting a good player, especially a 33 year old on silly wages. He retired 6 months later so I think it was the right decision.

The board have hired a good manager and backed him well, signing multiple players for transfer fees. Not their fault.

blackpoolhibs
27-11-2018, 08:42 AM
Before Kenny scored he could have had a goal from his free header.
GGTTH

Surely if you want to say Dundee could have scored another goal in that first half, you should also balance it with some of the misses we had too?

DetroitHibs
27-11-2018, 08:44 AM
I would like Messi, Modric and Ronaldo picked up. It's obviously that simple, get it sorted Rodders.

It's really not as simple as just wanting a good player, especially a 33 year old on silly wages. He retired 6 months later so I think it was the right decision.

The board have hired a good manager and backed him well, signing multiple players for transfer fees. Not their fault.

I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.

MWHIBBIES
27-11-2018, 08:48 AM
I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.

What club ever invests all of a transfer fee back into the team? The McGinn transfer also happened very late, we can still invest it. It has to be invested in other areas as well.

blackpoolhibs
27-11-2018, 08:48 AM
I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.

Thats absolutely shocking, can you give me a breakdown in what came in and went out please?

oneone73
27-11-2018, 09:05 AM
Tin hat firmly on. For me NL needs to take responsibility here. He gets lots of praise and rightfully so when it’s due, but this run of form is his responsibility to sort out.

Players being played outside their natural position. For example 3 Centre half’s started on Saturday ( Effe in the right back position ) Natural right back brought in to the squad and not even quoted.

Ended the game with 3 wingers on the pitch. Now I’m sure NL knows that the pitch only has 2 wings so why was Slivka not in midfield?

For anyone who thinks this is a dig, I agree it looks that way but I firmly believe NL will get it sorted and I think if we bring in the correct players to balance the team we can progress as we all want us to.


GGTTH

We didn't end the game with three wingers on the pitch. Agepong went off. And when he was on, Horgan was through the middle.

brog
27-11-2018, 09:09 AM
I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.

Do you really understand how the transfer market works? For every penny we save on a fee we end up paying most of it to the player in the form of wages or signing on fees. Do you think the likes of Milligan, Kamberi, Ambrose or Marciano actually cost us nothing or a minimum fee? Do you also really think that NL would stand by & see only 25%, or whatever other number you want to make up, reinvested in the squad? We probably have more internationalists on our books now than at any time in our history & IMO we have arguably the 2nd strongest squad in the league. Now its up to the players & manager to make it work.

Hermit Crab
27-11-2018, 09:14 AM
I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.


Would love to see proof of that.

CropleyWasGod
27-11-2018, 09:15 AM
I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.How do you arrive at that figure?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

flash
27-11-2018, 09:38 AM
I hate seeing this thread title every time I open the forum. It's not appropriate and more worthy of the puddle drinkers.
Not that it wasn't started by one of them.

Captain Trips
27-11-2018, 09:55 AM
I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.

NL has been put in a position of being able to make choices in the transfer window yes they may not be the world superstars but he has been able to choose players he wishes to sign. Previous managers IMO were signing folk in more desperation and sheer hope than anything else.

Could NL be given more money? Possibly, however as it stands he has had the opportunity to sign players and if it fails to work out I would need to look at NL first and foremost before suggesting the board never backed him. These are Neil's players he has to get a tune out of them and nobody else.

southern hibby
27-11-2018, 11:36 AM
Surely if you want to say Dundee could have scored another goal in that first half, you should also balance it with some of the misses we had too?

Blackpool, I’ve been on this forum for a few years now and if I wanted to say Dundee could have scored another goal, I would have and yes Hibs did miss several good chances. But then I’d say that we’ve missed numerous good chances this season and that’s not what my aim is.

All I want is what ALL true Hibs Fans on this forum is to see Hibs playing football, scoring and winning games. We’re not, we’re not even decent in some games over the 90 minutes. If you want to Hide behind the chances we’re making and pretending all is Good, feel free. I on the other hand am trying to be honest on here.

GGTTH

blackpoolhibs
27-11-2018, 11:38 AM
Blackpool, I’ve been on this forum for a few years now and if I wanted to say Dundee could have scored another goal, I would have and yes Hibs did miss several good chances. But then I’d say that we’ve missed numerous good chances this season and that’s not what my aim is.

All I want is what ALL true Hibs Fans on this forum is to see Hibs playing football, scoring and winning games. We’re not, we’re not even decent in some games over the 90 minutes. If you want to Hide behind the chances we’re making and pretending all is Good, feel free. I on the other hand am trying to be honest on here.

GGTTH

What was your aim, was it to paint as black a picture on whats happening without balance?

southern hibby
27-11-2018, 11:44 AM
What was your aim, was it to paint as black a picture on whats happening without balance?

No my aim is to say we’re no way near a balanced team, have players playing out of position and need to address it. That’s NL job and for me it needs done soon. We aren’t playing good and I think the fans should demand better because ( if nothing else ) the backing we have given the team.

GGTTH

southern hibby
27-11-2018, 11:45 AM
We didn't end the game with three wingers on the pitch. Agepong went off. And when he was on, Horgan was through the middle.

That’s right we took a winger off to bring on a midfield player. Should we really have 3 wingers on the pitch at the same time, even if one is through the middle?

GGTTH

JimBHibees
27-11-2018, 03:32 PM
I hate seeing this thread title every time I open the forum. It's not appropriate and more worthy of the puddle drinkers.
Not that it wasn't started by one of them.

Totally agree just realised I have put it up to the top of the Board though. :greengrin

Paisley Hibby
27-11-2018, 04:54 PM
Jings. The OP must be pretty young if he/she thinks this is bad. Those of us who've supported Hibs since the 1960s know that the past few seasons (including this one) are good times relatively speaking.

SquashedFrogg
27-11-2018, 05:01 PM
No my aim is to say we’re no way near a balanced team, have players playing out of position and need to address it. That’s NL job and for me it needs done soon. We aren’t playing good and I think the fans should demand better because ( if nothing else ) the backing we have given the team.

GGTTH

Fine margins tbh. I happened to think we played reasonably well in the first half. If the offside goal counts and we defend properly in the 46th minute then it's 3-0 at HT and game over.

Some of the analysis on here is bordering on the embarrassing.

And if by backing you mean thousands streaming out on 85 mins and booing at full time then I'm not sure how that constitutes as 'backing'?

SquashedFrogg
27-11-2018, 05:02 PM
Jings. The OP must be pretty young if he/she thinks this is bad. Those of us who've supported Hibs since the 1960s know that the past few seasons (including this one) are good times relatively speaking.

Here here!

calumhibee1
27-11-2018, 05:09 PM
Fine margins tbh. I happened to think we played reasonably well in the first half. If the offside goal counts and we defend properly in the 46th minute then it's 3-0 at HT and game over.

Some of the analysis on here is bordering on the embarrassing.

And if by backing you mean thousands streaming out on 85 mins and booing at full time then I'm not sure how that constitutes as 'backing'?

You can’t call other people’s analysis embarrassing but then go on and provide your own analysis where there’s an imaginary two goal swing?

DetroitHibs
27-11-2018, 05:55 PM
My figures are very a guesstimate as we very rarely are told what the transfer fees are. Conservatively I'm guessing we ended up with 2 million for McGinn after St Mirren were paid, add another £100,000 for Murray.

Horgan, Mallan and Flo combined probably cost us £500,000 I'd say probably less. What confuses me is all the talk about wages being figured in. Generally our wage bill stays the same. McGinn, Dylan and Murrays wages would have been replaced with the new guys.

Then you add in season ticket money. Now how many times do you hear from the board about buying season tickets so the money can be invested in the squad?

CropleyWasGod
27-11-2018, 05:59 PM
My figures are very a guesstimate as we very rarely are told what the transfer fees are. Conservatively I'm guessing we ended up with 2 million for McGinn after St Mirren were paid, add another £100,000 for Murray.

Horgan, Mallan and Flo combined probably cost us £500,000 I'd say probably less. What confuses me is all the talk about wages being figured in. Generally our wage bill stays the same. McGinn, Dylan and Murrays wages would have been replaced with the new guys.

Then you add in season ticket money. Now how many times do you hear from the board about buying season tickets so the money can be invested in the squad?

How much of that £2m have we actually been paid?

Captain Trips
27-11-2018, 06:22 PM
My figures are very a guesstimate as we very rarely are told what the transfer fees are. Conservatively I'm guessing we ended up with 2 million for McGinn after St Mirren were paid, add another £100,000 for Murray.

Horgan, Mallan and Flo combined probably cost us £500,000 I'd say probably less. What confuses me is all the talk about wages being figured in. Generally our wage bill stays the same. McGinn, Dylan and Murrays wages would have been replaced with the new guys.

Then you add in season ticket money. Now how many times do you hear from the board about buying season tickets so the money can be invested in the squad?

The point of the matter is NL has been given the opportunity to bring in players of his own choosing. It would be great if he was told £3m for SJM have the lot however he has been given something that has allowed him options in the market and enough options to be doing better this term.

We are as far behind as we are due to our own poor performances and that's down to NL and the players. Injuries have not helped either but at this juncture if we do not do well it's the teams fault not the board.

B.H.F.C
27-11-2018, 06:23 PM
My figures are very a guesstimate as we very rarely are told what the transfer fees are. Conservatively I'm guessing we ended up with 2 million for McGinn after St Mirren were paid, add another £100,000 for Murray.

Horgan, Mallan and Flo combined probably cost us £500,000 I'd say probably less. What confuses me is all the talk about wages being figured in. Generally our wage bill stays the same. McGinn, Dylan and Murrays wages would have been replaced with the new guys.

Then you add in season ticket money. Now how many times do you hear from the board about buying season tickets so the money can be invested in the squad?

I think some of the new players will be on better money.

Flo will be on more than Murray. The other two were on English Championship money prior to being here so would command decent wages. Back when McGinn and McGeough signed their contracts their reputation was nothing like what it was when they left. I think players that came in since they signed, the likes of Ambrose and Stokes, would have been on better money than them as well.

green day
27-11-2018, 06:25 PM
My figures are very a guesstimate as we very rarely are told what the transfer fees are. Conservatively I'm guessing we ended up with 2 million for McGinn after St Mirren were paid, add another £100,000 for Murray.

Horgan, Mallan and Flo combined probably cost us £500,000 I'd say probably less. What confuses me is all the talk about wages being figured in. Generally our wage bill stays the same. McGinn, Dylan and Murrays wages would have been replaced with the new guys.

Then you add in season ticket money. Now how many times do you hear from the board about buying season tickets so the money can be invested in the squad?

Have we not also earmarked about £1M for East Mains?

DetroitHibs
27-11-2018, 06:45 PM
I just see a viscous cycle with the club over and over. Have a good season, sell our best assets, then try and rebuild on the cheap. Then it's back to square one and mid table or worse all over again.

I thought this year we should have over spent if anything. The club was on a high, in Europe and season tickets at a record high. If we finish mid-table this year, we'll have lost out on the European money and season ticket sales will drop off.

Its no guarantee spending big money will results in getting in to Europe etc, but it's still a punt the club should have made.

tamig
27-11-2018, 07:18 PM
I just see a viscous cycle with the club over and over. Have a good season, sell our best assets, then try and rebuild on the cheap. Then it's back to square one and mid table or worse all over again.

I thought this year we should have over spent if anything. The club was on a high, in Europe and season tickets at a record high. If we finish mid-table this year, we'll have lost out on the European money and season ticket sales will drop off.

Its no guarantee spending big money will results in getting in to Europe etc, but it's still a punt the club should have made.
Do you not think NL captured most of his top transfer targets? I do. I don’t think too many were complaining at the quality of signings made at the time. For whatever reason it just hasn’t quite gelled yet. To point the finger at the board for perceived underspending is pretty ridiculous imo.

DetroitHibs
27-11-2018, 08:26 PM
Do you not think NL captured most of his top transfer targets? I do. I don’t think too many were complaining at the quality of signings made at the time. For whatever reason it just hasn’t quite gelled yet. To point the finger at the board for perceived underspending is pretty ridiculous imo.

I don't think Neil got all his targets. He wanted Allan and he wanted another player before the window closed. I'm not judging the board solely on this season, I'm taking stock of what's gone down since they have run the club. I hate to keep banging the same drum, but under this board I see far many more negatives than positives. Personally I want Petrie firmly removed from the club and have nothing to do with the running of the club.

MWHIBBIES
27-11-2018, 08:30 PM
I don't think Neil got all his targets. He wanted Allan and he wanted another player before the window closed. I'm not judging the board solely on this season, I'm taking stock of what's gone down since they have run the club. I hate to keep banging the same drum, but under this board I see far many more negatives than positives. Personally I want Petrie firmly removed from the club and have nothing to do with the running of the club.Then why aren't you complaining about the person who employs Petrie?

One Day Soon
27-11-2018, 08:33 PM
I hate seeing this thread title every time I open the forum. It's not appropriate and more worthy of the puddle drinkers.
Not that it wasn't started by one of them.

:agree: It's a complete 5hit show.

AgentDaleCooper
27-11-2018, 08:38 PM
IMO we need one big performance and 3 points against one of the ugly sisters and we'll be rolling. Just needs to click, and i think it will.

One Day Soon
27-11-2018, 08:53 PM
I don't think Neil got all his targets. He wanted Allan and he wanted another player before the window closed. I'm not judging the board solely on this season, I'm taking stock of what's gone down since they have run the club. I hate to keep banging the same drum, but under this board I see far many more negatives than positives. Personally I want Petrie firmly removed from the club and have nothing to do with the running of the club.

We were rescued from near extinction. We have a superb redeveloped stadium - bigger and better than our Edinburgh neighbours, we have a superb training facility at East Mains, we are well down the path of fan ownership and already close to the point where fans will own enough of the club for it to be protected from any predator, we are closing in on being out of any indebtedness and therefore firmly financially secure, we won the Scottish Cup after 114 years of waiting, we got into Europe this season, we have very high season ticket sales, we have the best Chief Executive in the country, we have an excellent manager, we have a good squad despite losing three excellent players in the close season and I would expect it will improve again in January.

I wouldn't swap our Board for anyone else's. I think the club has undergone extraordinary re-invigoration in its physical assets, its balance sheet, its squad and its support.

You've made a ridiculous claim about only reinvesting 25% of the transfer money when you then admit that you know neither what that transfer money was nor how much we actually spent and now you are making ridiculous claims about the Board in the face of a pretty impressive range of achievements to balance out their negatives.

Ryan69
27-11-2018, 09:01 PM
I don't think they backed him well and I don't think they have done a good job in there tenure. They invested about 25% of the McGinn money in transfer fees and that's being generous.

Transfer FEES alone...Not even close too 25%!

brog
27-11-2018, 09:02 PM
Admins can I suggest we close this thread, there's plenty other threads of a similar ilk. The OP posted 1 minute after the end of the game & has been laughing quietly since as we implode. He's had his fun, I suggest thats enough.

calumhibee1
27-11-2018, 09:04 PM
Admins can I suggest we close this thread, there's plenty other threads of a similar ilk. The OP posted 1 minute after the end of the game & has been laughing quietly since as we implode. He's had his fun, I suggest thats enough.

Or we could not go down the road of censoring people from talking about where our problems lie..

brog
27-11-2018, 09:09 PM
Or we could not go down the road of censoring people from talking about where our problems lie..

There's about a dozen other threads if you want to do that. They dont have such an emotive (& IMO inaccurate) title though.

majorhibs
27-11-2018, 09:28 PM
Dreadful, frustratin, mebbes no as much as Man U the nite when needin a result, no that I like them or anything, but when ye reckon ye’ve got players gonna do the biz, & there’s nae business or mair importantly goals, it drains ye!

superfurryhibby
27-11-2018, 10:11 PM
Admins can I suggest we close this thread, there's plenty other threads of a similar ilk. The OP posted 1 minute after the end of the game & has been laughing quietly since as we implode. He's had his fun, I suggest thats enough.

Totally agree with this,

Threads like this and the Lennon is a fraud one on the PM board are really piss poor. Equally, the hardcore negative posters should really reign it in a little. Fine to have a view and make your point but relentlessly making the same point in response to anyone who disagrees is tedious. Doing it on almost every thread....... sad individuals.

It’s possible to be pissed off about what’s happening without indulging in self gratification.

Scotty Leither
27-11-2018, 10:18 PM
Do you not think NL captured most of his top transfer targets? I do. I don’t think too many were complaining at the quality of signings made at the time. For whatever reason it just hasn’t quite gelled yet. To point the finger at the board for perceived underspending is pretty ridiculous imo.

No, some of us think he didn't get his top transfer targets.

Kamberi has been carrying a knock since the start of the season and I for one think he's still toiling.

The manager has had to rotate raw laddies to fill the void up front who he brings in for one/two games then they disappear again; and don't get me started on our international signings who've managed about an hour game time between the two of them.

If we have a patchy season and season tickets fall next year, I'll venture our Board won't be slow to plead poverty when the whole signings argument comes round again.

That mob over by have a centre forward lined up to come in on the first of January 2019.

Do you think we will - somehow I doubt it?

There's "money in the bank" apparently, according to Leeann.

Maybe time to spend some of it?

PatHead
27-11-2018, 10:50 PM
Totally agree with this,

Threads like this and the Lennon is a fraud one on the PM board are really piss poor. Equally, the hardcore negative posters should really reign it in a little. Fine to have a view and make your point but relentlessly making the same point in response to anyone who disagrees is tedious. Doing it on almost every thread....... sad individuals.

It’s possible to be pissed off about what’s happening without indulging in self gratification.

If you think this is bad wait until the transfer window open s.
Bedwetting reaches new levels then.

They are the type of guys who will moan about getting a new Hibs scarf for Christmas as it is a mild winter.

majorhibs
27-11-2018, 11:08 PM
If you think this is bad wait until the transfer window open s.
Bedwetting reaches new levels then.

They are the type of guys who will moan about getting a new Hibs scarf for Christmas as it is a mild winter.

I really, really, hope a lot I can rise up to the level of the ubers who really really know they are not “bedwetters”! Then I will know I’ve really really made it as a Hibs fan!

Hibernia&Alba
27-11-2018, 11:13 PM
I really, really, hope a lot I can rise up to the level of the ubers who really really know they are not “bedwetters”! Then I will know I’ve really really made it as a Hibs fan!

It's compulsory to be either a 'happy clapper' or a 'bed wetter'. Choose your poison. :agree:

CMurdoch
28-11-2018, 01:22 AM
We were rescued from near extinction. We have a superb redeveloped stadium - bigger and better than our Edinburgh neighbours, we have a superb training facility at East Mains, we are well down the path of fan ownership and already close to the point where fans will own enough of the club for it to be protected from any predator, we are closing in on being out of any indebtedness and therefore firmly financially secure, we won the Scottish Cup after 114 years of waiting, we got into Europe this season, we have very high season ticket sales, we have the best Chief Executive in the country, we have an excellent manager, we have a good squad despite losing three excellent players in the close season and I would expect it will improve again in January.

I wouldn't swap our Board for anyone else's. I think the club has undergone extraordinary re-invigoration in its physical assets, its balance sheet, its squad and its support.

You've made a ridiculous claim about only reinvesting 25% of the transfer money when you then admit that you know neither what that transfer money was nor how much we actually spent and now you are making ridiculous claims about the Board in the face of a pretty impressive range of achievements to balance out their negatives.

That is pretty much where i'm at. There is a lot to be thankful for despite the little bit of pain we are feeling at the moment.
This is a transitional season with the rebuild to be completed in the summer.
Can't see us being able to bring in the quality for the long term in January. As usual time will tell.
Long term everything is rosy in the Hibs garden in no short measure to the financial prudence of the board.

lord bunberry
28-11-2018, 01:59 AM
What kind of hibs fan starts a thread with the title hibs are dreadful? My guess is a ****ing idiot.

California-Hibs
28-11-2018, 03:25 AM
What kind of hibs fan starts a thread with the title hibs are dreadful? My guess is a ****ing idiot.

Thought the same thing! Completely idiotic

Viva_Palmeiras
28-11-2018, 04:32 AM
And so the wheel turns...
deja vu thread. Emotive title, view reactions either side. Questioning intentions slating originator, the counters.
Back o work and wining Hibs! Onwards and up.

blackpoolhibs
28-11-2018, 06:49 AM
What kind of hibs fan starts a thread with the title hibs are dreadful? My guess is a ****ing idiot.

The same kind of folk that cant wait to slaughter the team/manager/board whenever there is a poor bit of form.

No forgiveness or thoughts on whats happened and why we've hit a bit of bad form, or that we could turn it round.

No its toys out the pram, and talk of crowds dropping, relegation dog fights and season tickets not renewed, and managers losing the plot.

Where were all these people when we really were pish?

flash
28-11-2018, 09:16 AM
Or we could not go down the road of censoring people from talking about where our problems lie..

Exactly. You would have to stop posting if that happened.

calumhibee1
28-11-2018, 09:20 AM
Exactly. You would have to stop posting if that happened.

Ah of course. Cracking banter wee man, really good stuff. :aok:

PatHead
28-11-2018, 09:22 AM
No, some of us think he didn't get his top transfer targets.

Kamberi has been carrying a knock since the start of the season and I for one think he's still toiling.

The manager has had to rotate raw laddies to fill the void up front who he brings in for one/two games then they disappear again; and don't get me started on our international signings who've managed about an hour game time between the two of them.

If we have a patchy season and season tickets fall next year, I'll venture our Board won't be slow to plead poverty when the whole signings argument comes round again.

That mob over by have a centre forward lined up to come in on the first of January 2019.

Do you think we will - somehow I doubt it?

There's "money in the bank" apparently, according to Leeann.

Maybe time to spend some of it?

The same centre forward they tried and failed all summyto get?

My_Wife_Camille
28-11-2018, 09:38 AM
Ah of course. Cracking banter wee man, really good stuff. :aok:

As usual, he very rarely offers any input on Hibs or even football in general. Instead he prefers to troll the boards by making sarcy digs at people and accusing them of being yams.

lord bunberry
28-11-2018, 09:48 AM
The same kind of folk that cant wait to slaughter the team/manager/board whenever there is a poor bit of form.

No forgiveness or thoughts on whats happened and why we've hit a bit of bad form, or that we could turn it round.

No its toys out the pram, and talk of crowds dropping, relegation dog fights and season tickets not renewed, and managers losing the plot.

Where were all these people when we really were pish?
:agree: A few weeks ago when we played Celtic we could have went top if we’d won. Since then we’ve been on a bad run, but we haven’t suddenly become a bad team with bad players. We need a few players in the January window, but we also need the fans to be behind the team.

J-C
28-11-2018, 11:21 AM
:agree: A few weeks ago when we played Celtic we could have went top if we’d won. Since then we’ve been on a bad run, but we haven’t suddenly become a bad team with bad players. We need a few players in the January window, but we also need the fans to be behind the team.


I don't think they've suddenly became bad but it's noticeable that as soon as we got injuries to key players the squad is very thin on quality. Playing Horgan a wide player in the hole, or using Boyle as a wingback or even using Milligan a natural DM as a makeshift left sided CB and having Porteous on the bench.

Signings that have never been seen and others seemingly fit but not being played ( Mavrias )

All this plus the outbursts from Lennon and the rumours will always have a negative effect on supporters. We've gone from an attacking fluid team to one that seems to like to punt long balls upto our focal striker and all the while changing shape more than the wind changes in Edinburgh. It's only natural that us fans will start to question the team and the management, especially after last season, transition doesn't always go well and can be a slow progress.

lord bunberry
28-11-2018, 12:26 PM
I don't think they've suddenly became bad but it's noticeable that as soon as we got injuries to key players the squad is very thin on quality. Playing Horgan a wide player in the hole, or using Boyle as a wingback or even using Milligan a natural DM as a makeshift left sided CB and having Porteous on the bench.

Signings that have never been seen and others seemingly fit but not being played ( Mavrias )

All this plus the outbursts from Lennon and the rumours will always have a negative effect on supporters. We've gone from an attacking fluid team to one that seems to like to punt long balls upto our focal striker and all the while changing shape more than the wind changes in Edinburgh. It's only natural that us fans will start to question the team and the management, especially after last season, transition doesn't always go well and can be a slow progress.
I’m all for questioning the team and the manager. No one is above criticism, but people like the person that started this thread do nothing but criticise and can’t wait to put the boot in. Starting a thread with the title hibs are dreadful is not something most hibs fans would do. We’ve been brutal in the last two home games, but that doesn’t make us a bad team or dreadful.

jdships
28-11-2018, 01:16 PM
I’m all for questioning the team and the manager. No one is above criticism, but people like the person that started this thread do nothing but criticise and can’t wait to put the boot in. Starting a thread with the title hibs are dreadful is not something most hibs fans would do. We’ve been brutal in the last two home games, but that doesn’t make us a bad team or dreadful.

10/10:aok::flag:

Scotty Leither
28-11-2018, 01:26 PM
The same centre forward they tried and failed all summyto get?

So you've picked up on one isolated point PH...Fact is they've signed more players than we did, and of course all the experts on here slagged off their "scattergun" approach, when the reality is they had an indifferent season last year and they've addressed it...our Board had a chance to really kick the club on, even, or you could say especially, after McGinn left and the transfer fee we received.

Instead they've reverted to type and the squad is light in numbers and quality again, approaching a really testing run of fixtures.

If I can ask you a question: Do you think we'll have players in on the first week of January, or will we wait until the end of the window when the better players become available (apparently) and make our move(s) then?

One Day Soon
28-11-2018, 01:45 PM
So you've picked up on one isolated point PH...Fact is they've signed more players than we did, and of course all the experts on here slagged off their "scattergun" approach, when the reality is they had an indifferent season last year and they've addressed it...our Board had a chance to really kick the club on, even, or you could say especially, after McGinn left and the transfer fee we received.

Instead they've reverted to type and the squad is light in numbers and quality again, approaching a really testing run of fixtures.

If I can ask you a question: Do you think we'll have players in on the first week of January, or will we wait until the end of the window when the better players become available (apparently) and make our move(s) then?

Way too early to say they've addressed it. They finished 6th last season and they're currently third, but just five points off another sixth place. Let's see at the end of the season where they finish, whether they win anything and whether the wisdom of their scattergun spending is borne out by the end result of a whole season.

They are on target to score more goals this time round but with barely a third of the season gone they've already conceded half of the total they conceded last year. I like our chances better.

superfurryhibby
28-11-2018, 02:33 PM
So you've picked up on one isolated point PH...Fact is they've signed more players than we did, and of course all the experts on here slagged off their "scattergun" approach, when the reality is they had an indifferent season last year and they've addressed it...our Board had a chance to really kick the club on, even, or you could say especially, after McGinn left and the transfer fee we received.

Instead they've reverted to type and the squad is light in numbers and quality again, approaching a really testing run of fixtures.

If I can ask you a question: Do you think we'll have players in on the first week of January, or will we wait until the end of the window when the better players become available (apparently) and make our move(s) then?

Any chance of the would be “investors” sticking their hands in their pockets, matching the Hearts benefactors and supporting some bold transfer business in early January?

Scotty Leither
28-11-2018, 02:56 PM
Any chance of the would be “investors” sticking their hands in their pockets, matching the Hearts benefactors and supporting some bold transfer business in early January?

Don't know - maybe the Hibs' directors could find a way to raising some money from people who may want to invest without gaining overall control, much in the same way as Hearts seem to have tapped into their monied supporters?

It seems a good business model to me, and something our two major shareholders might want to pursue, if the asking price/overall buyout price is too high?

It's certainly something i'd be tasking the other Directors with if I were Dempster or Petrie, but given that radio silence once again appears to becoming the communication model of the Hibs, I suspect we'll wait a long time on the answer.

Keith_M
28-11-2018, 02:58 PM
Is it still possible to buy some of the new shares without going through HSL?

I have some already, but wasn't sure if that option was still open.

heretoday
28-11-2018, 03:07 PM
It's compulsory to be either a 'happy clapper' or a 'bed wetter'. Choose your poison. :agree:

It's physically possible to be both.

superfurryhibby
28-11-2018, 03:45 PM
Don't know - maybe the Hibs' directors could find a way to raising some money from people who may want to invest without gaining overall control, much in the same way as Hearts seem to have tapped into their monied supporters?

It seems a good business model to me, and something our two major shareholders might want to pursue, if the asking price/overall buyout price is too high?

It's certainly something i'd be tasking the other Directors with if I were Dempster or Petrie, but given that radio silence once again appears to becoming the communication model of the Hibs, I suspect we'll wait a long time on the answer.

I thought that the wealthy Hearts supporters ( Budge aside) donated with no tangible return? It’s not a cash for shares situation over the road.

Given that HSL and small individual shareholders already own a major chunk of the club, is there any advantage to having more shareholders anyway? If they donated via HSL then the main shareholders stake would be reduced and the money would go towards the playing budget?

The current board are looking to reduce their stake-recoup part of their investment. Stands to reason that the cautious approach isn’t going to change.

Scotty Leither
28-11-2018, 04:02 PM
The current board are looking to reduce their stake-recoup part of their investment. Stands to reason that the cautious approach isn’t going to change.

...and ain't that the truth.

brog
28-11-2018, 04:36 PM
...and ain't that the truth.

Aint that the truth, except it's not the truth! I know it wasn't you who said it originally but someone needs to explain yet again that shares purchased by HSL actually diminish STF & RP's equity in our club rather than helping them recover any original investment.

Scotty Leither
28-11-2018, 05:29 PM
Aint that the truth, except it's not the truth! I know it wasn't you who said it originally but someone needs to explain yet again that shares purchased by HSL actually diminish STF & RP's equity in our club rather than helping them recover any original investment.

My bad: the "ain't that the truth" referred to furry's comment about the cautious approach continuing.

As an HSL contributor I'm aware of how the increasing/reducing equity works.

I don't think it affects the hefty purchase price for any would-be buyer, though.

BSEJVT
28-11-2018, 05:49 PM
My bad: the "ain't that the truth" referred to furry's comment about the cautious approach continuing.

As an HSL contributor I'm aware of how the increasing/reducing equity works.

I don't think it affects the hefty purchase price for any would-be buyer, though.

I think it does

The more shares HSL own the less control any would be purchaser is going to have

That's also without taking into consideration whether any of those supporters who own shares directly or through nominees would be willing to sell.

If you offered me the choice between paying £20m (made up figure) to wholly own a business or £15m (another made up figure) to own 2/3rds, especially one so emotive as a football club, I would far rather pay the £20m and have absolute control with no other shareholders to answer to.

I think folk miss the boat on the idea that not only are STF and Rod giving away 49% of the business they are substantially devaluing the purchase value of the remaining 51% also.

You can bet though that its not lost on them,

Scotty Leither
28-11-2018, 06:26 PM
I think it does

The more shares HSL own the less control any would be purchaser is going to have

That's also without taking into consideration whether any of those supporters who own shares directly or through nominees would be willing to sell.

If you offered me the choice between paying £20m (made up figure) to wholly own a business or £15m (another made up figure) to own 2/3rds, especially one so emotive as a football club, I would far rather pay the £20m and have absolute control with no other shareholders to answer to.

I think folk miss the boat on the idea that not only are STF and Rod giving away 49% of the business they are substantially devaluing the purchase value of the remaining 51% also.

You can bet though that its not lost on them,

...and the price of the fixed assets?

BSEJVT
28-11-2018, 06:30 PM
...and the price of the fixed assets?

The same as any other asset, whatever someone is willing to pay for it and how unfettered their control is of said asset

If you were selling me a car I needed the other owners permission to drive I wouldn't pay as much for it as if I was buying it outright.

One Day Soon
28-11-2018, 06:37 PM
I think it does

The more shares HSL own the less control any would be purchaser is going to have

That's also without taking into consideration whether any of those supporters who own shares directly or through nominees would be willing to sell.

If you offered me the choice between paying £20m (made up figure) to wholly own a business or £15m (another made up figure) to own 2/3rds, especially one so emotive as a football club, I would far rather pay the £20m and have absolute control with no other shareholders to answer to.

I think folk miss the boat on the idea that not only are STF and Rod giving away 49% of the business they are substantially devaluing the purchase value of the remaining 51% also.

You can bet though that its not lost on them,


That's because they have both the best interests of the club at heart and the means to do something about it. Of the very few suitors - largely fantasists - who have sniffed around the scene, none have had enough to buy the club.

It's hard to see any routes for external parties to funding additional spending by the club that aren't one of a) buying the club and then spending your own money on it b) buying the club and then borrowing to spend money on it c) offering the club loans at no or low interest d) making straight up donations to the club or e) investing in HSL to both fund the club and support fan ownership.

For those who can't afford to buy Hibernian it would seem that c), d) and e) are pretty straightforward if they are serious.

Scotty Leither
28-11-2018, 06:43 PM
The same as any other asset, whatever someone is willing to pay for it and how unfettered their control is of said asset

If you were selling me a car I needed the other owners permission to drive I wouldn't pay as much for it as if I was buying it outright.


Hmmmm...like a sale and leaseback arrangement then?

I think a deal like that would actually suit the Hibs, but I don't see Petrie and Farmer going for that, it's too imaginative by far.

PatHead
28-11-2018, 06:55 PM
So you've picked up on one isolated point PH...Fact is they've signed more players than we did, and of course all the experts on here slagged off their "scattergun" approach, when the reality is they had an indifferent season last year and they've addressed it...our Board had a chance to really kick the club on, even, or you could say especially, after McGinn left and the transfer fee we received.

Instead they've reverted to type and the squad is light in numbers and quality again, approaching a really testing run of fixtures.

If I can ask you a question: Do you think we'll have players in on the first week of January, or will we wait until the end of the window when the better players become available (apparently) and make our move(s) then?

We will sign the right players as soon as they are available. Hopefully that will be early in the window.

BSEJVT
28-11-2018, 07:01 PM
Hmmmm...like a sale and leaseback arrangement then?

I think a deal like that would actually suit the Hibs, but I don't see Petrie and Farmer going for that, it's too imaginative by far.

What I have outlined is nothing like a sale and leaseback, nothing at all.

I have contrasted what I believe to be the difference in valuations that could be obtained through selling an asset with Unfettered Control v one with Shared Ownership.

A Sale and Leaseback arrangement for STF and Rod or for that matter any owner of a football club would be utterly mental.

Whilst they might get capital out they would be paying over the top to leaseback, wouldn't share in any increase in the asset value and their only return would be the profits achieved by the business.

Hibs trading history over the last 30 years would suggest slim pickings if any from this.

Still as an added bonus they would continue to get the grief they do now.

If they were profit driven, which they clearly are not under the current regime but you would have to assume would be under your proposal or what's the point?

Then they would restrict reinvestment into the team and infrastructure and before you know it the club would be dying on its arse.

I can see why such an arrangement might be attractive to all parties :-)

superfurryhibby
28-11-2018, 08:42 PM
The same as any other asset, whatever someone is willing to pay for it and how unfettered their control is of said asset

If you were selling me a car I needed the other owners permission to drive I wouldn't pay as much for it as if I was buying it outright.

The notional value of Hibs as an on-going footballing entity has got to be substantially less than the potential sale of all assets as seperate market concerns? In addition, the HSL and combined small shareholdings should ensure that that club and assets remain inseparable in perpetuity.

In terms of benefactors. I would urge those with dosh to make a difference to give to HSL. They can do this and claim the accolades for benevolence later. In addition to providing more funds to the team, they also diminish the Farmer/ Petrie stake. Win-win?

One Day Soon
28-11-2018, 09:19 PM
The notional value of Hibs as an on-going footballing entity has got to be substantially less than the potential sale of all assets as seperate market concerns? In addition, the HSL and combined small shareholdings should ensure that that club and assets remain inseparable in perpetuity.

In terms of benefactors. I would urge those with dosh to make a difference to do give to HSL. They can do this and claim the accolades for benevolence later. In addition to providing more funds to the team, they also diminish the Farmer/ Petrie stake. Win-win?

This completely, why wouldn't they do this?

Mixu62
28-11-2018, 10:25 PM
I'm not completely up to date with this thread yet, but here's a thought. This is the season we should have had last year. As a newly promoted side back in the Premier, mid-table would have been OK. Perhaps the McGinn-McGeouch-Allan driven season last year has raised expectations a little bit. Sure it's disappointing but lots of teams struggle a bit in their second season back up. The yams did too.

superfurryhibby
28-11-2018, 10:26 PM
This completely, why wouldn't they do this?

Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. It seems that Hearts have fans rich enough and supportive enough to give large sums of money. In addition, the ordinary fans are backing them to the, ahem, hilt.

I can’t see why anyone eager to see the club progress and dilute the Farmer/ Petrie shareholding wouldn’t do, provided they have the required cash to donate. Maybe our would be investors just don’t have the bucks to walk the walk, who knows?

BSEJVT
29-11-2018, 06:00 AM
Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. It seems that Hearts have fans rich enough and supportive enough to give large sums of money. In addition, the ordinary fans are backing them to the, ahem, hilt.

I can’t see why anyone eager to see the club progress and dilute the Farmer/ Petrie shareholding wouldn’t do, provided they have the required cash to donate. Maybe our would be investors just don’t have the bucks to walk the walk, who knows?

As a long time advocate of HSL I agree completely with your sentiments on that.

I think though you confuse donations and investing?

Contributions to HSL are donations

Unless those wishing to pony up masses of cash were getting shares in exchange, the value of which is debateable anyway, they too would be donating.

Maybe our more wealthy fans are a bit more savvy and less obsessed than those over the road.

No matter how wealthy I was, the last thing I would ever do would be to donate truckloads of money to Hibs. There are so many other causes that I would put first.

I might consider it for a one-off infrastructure product, like building a new indoor facility at East Mains, but I wouldn't consider it to just throw money into the pot.

Its never enough for some folk who then criticise the donor for not giving more and one thing that has always stuck in my craw over the wealthy benefactor angle is that we get (and I don't include you in this) loads of folk on here bitching about how wealthy Hibs supporters don't donate and many of them don't even pay into HSL.

Not because they can't, which is absolutely fair enough, but because they don't think they ought to but then expect someone else to do so and they can reap the benefit.

I never like the idea that folk expect others to pay for their enjoyment, when they proportionally to their income wont.

CropleyWasGod
29-11-2018, 08:28 AM
Hmmmm...like a sale and leaseback arrangement then?

I think a deal like that would actually suit the Hibs, but I don't see Petrie and Farmer going for that, it's too imaginative by far.I think that would be a horrendous idea. Quite apart from the points made above about the cost of the lease, we would no longer have the long-term security of owning the stadium.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Captain Trips
29-11-2018, 09:03 AM
Hibs are not dreadful over the whole piece since NL took over Hibs have played superb, good and poorly but on the whole we have been good and our push for 2nd last season proves that. For me playing badly is the exception and I am confident of a quick turnaround.

This thread reminds me of some folk who post negative reviews on tripadvisor about a restaurant they say they have visited on several occasions and enjoyed then leave a review once they have a crap meal.

calumhibee1
29-11-2018, 09:23 AM
Hibs are not dreadful over the whole piece since NL took over Hibs have played superb, good and poorly but on the whole we have been good and our push for 2nd last season proves that. For me playing badly is the exception and I am confident of a quick turnaround.

This thread reminds me of some folk who post negative reviews on tripadvisor about a restaurant they say they have visited on several occasions and enjoyed then leave a review once they have a crap meal.

But people have started leaving crap reviews after they replaced the steak with Hamburgers and the lobster with fish fingers :greengrin

One Day Soon
29-11-2018, 09:44 AM
But people have started leaving crap reviews after they replaced the steak with Hamburgers and the lobster with fish fingers :greengrin

Well this analogy is a slippery slope...

People have started leaving crap reviews after they had the special last week and are unhappy that the special isn't on the menu this week. Other people seem to want to tell the Chef how to cook and to own the restaurant without paying for it. And some others wouldn't be happy even if they were given exactly what they wanted every day for the rest of their lives. For them the Halibut is always more tender at the restaurant next door.

Others are just happy to get into the restaurant, like the food and hope to eat off the expensive a-la-carte menu from time to time. Maybe we're not discriminating enough. Peasants.

superfurryhibby
29-11-2018, 09:45 AM
As a long time advocate of HSL I agree completely with your sentiments on that.

I think though you confuse donations and investing?

Contributions to HSL are donations

Unless those wishing to pony up masses of cash were getting shares in exchange, the value of which is debateable anyway, they too would be donating.

Maybe our more wealthy fans are a bit more savvy and less obsessed than those over the road.

No matter how wealthy I was, the last thing I would ever do would be to donate truckloads of money to Hibs. There are so many other causes that I would put first.

I might consider it for a one-off infrastructure product, like building a new indoor facility at East Mains, but I wouldn't consider it to just throw money into the pot.

Its never enough for some folk who then criticise the donor for not giving more and one thing that has always stuck in my craw over the wealthy benefactor angle is that we get (and I don't include you in this) loads of folk on here bitching about how wealthy Hibs supporters don't donate and many of them don't even pay into HSL.

Not because they can't, which is absolutely fair enough, but because they don't think they ought to but then expect someone else to do so and they can reap the benefit.

I never like the idea that folk expect others to pay for their enjoyment, when they proportionally to their income wont.

As you say, giving to HSL is a donation and in reality any “investment” is the same, as we all know there is very little chance of seeing a financial return for getting involved in aScottish football club.

However, we have one poster who contributes on here who has fairly regularly criticised the board ( with some legitimacy) about their cautious approach and the detrimental impact this has on the football. They also strongly hint at the current ownership placing obstacles in the way of investment by wealthy fans.

My underlying sentiment is that said wealthy fans will get nothing back from investing, other than the kudos and prestige attached to being a “name” at Hibs. Given the on going move towards fan ownership, even the prospect of new owners having a deciding say in business terms is diminishing all the time?

One Day Soon
29-11-2018, 09:53 AM
As you say, giving to HSL is a donation and in reality any “investment” is the same, as we all know there is very little chance of seeing a financial return for getting involved in aScottish football club.

However, we have one poster who contributes on here who has fairly regularly criticised the board ( with some legitimacy) about their cautious approach and the detrimental impact this has on the football. They also strongly hint at the current ownership placing obstacles in the way of investment by wealthy fans.

My underlying sentiment is that said wealthy fans will get nothing back from investing, other than the kudos and prestige attached to being a “name” at Hibs. Given the on going move towards fan ownership, even the prospect of new owners having a deciding say in business terms is diminishing all the time?

I think it would be correct to say that there is not a shred of evidence to back up this notion. If there is I would be interested and dismayed to learn it.

hibsbollah
29-11-2018, 10:15 AM
As you say, giving to HSL is a donation and in reality any “investment” is the same, as we all know there is very little chance of seeing a financial return for getting involved in aScottish football club.

However, we have one poster who contributes on here who has fairly regularly criticised the board ( with some legitimacy) about their cautious approach and the detrimental impact this has on the football. They also strongly hint at the current ownership placing obstacles in the way of investment by wealthy fans.

My underlying sentiment is that said wealthy fans will get nothing back from investing, other than the kudos and prestige attached to being a “name” at Hibs. Given the on going move towards fan ownership, even the prospect of new owners having a deciding say in business terms is diminishing all the time?

We should be rightly sceptical of the 'investment from wealthy fans' line. There's plenty of evidence that when this happens the results are more often disastrous for the club involved (we need only glance through the net curtains at the smelly neighbours at this point to find a cautionary tale) than anything else, unless it's simply a matter of them handing over the cash, taking a seat in hospitality but leaving the actual decision making to the group of people who know what they're doing.

Captain Trips
29-11-2018, 10:56 AM
NL has enough in the locker just now to have poor performances as there have been some great ones. Over the past 10 years I have seen managers and performances way worse than anything NL has served us they had nothing of note to fall back on.

This all depends on each fans opinion of how good you think we are. I think we are good enough for 2nd so therefore it will bother me more than a fan who thinks we are equipped to finish 4th. I am disappointed we are off the pace but believe we will have a run and others will have bad runs.

blackpoolhibs
29-11-2018, 11:32 AM
NL has enough in the locker just now to have poor performances as there have been some great ones. Over the past 10 years I have seen managers and performances way worse than anything NL has served us they had nothing of note to fall back on.

This all depends on each fans opinion of how good you think we are. I think we are good enough for 2nd so therefore it will bother me more than a fan who thinks we are equipped to finish 4th. I am disappointed we are off the pace but believe we will have a run and others will have bad runs.

Dear god, what on earth makes you think we are good enough to finish 2nd, when last season a much better side couldn't?

One Day Soon
29-11-2018, 11:56 AM
Dear god, what on earth makes you think we are good enough to finish 2nd, when last season a much better side couldn't?

Say Jamie Maclaren, PLEASE say Jamie Maclaren....

Captain Trips
29-11-2018, 11:58 AM
Dear god, what on earth makes you think we are good enough to finish 2nd, when last season a much better side couldn't?

Well let me see I think we have better players than the other teams and a better manager that is probably the reason.

B.H.F.C
29-11-2018, 12:01 PM
Well let me see I think we have better players than the other teams and a better manager that is probably the reason.

We’re weaker than last season and other teams are stronger. If we can finish top four again that would be more than respectable given what we lost in the summer.

The Rangers will finish second this year by a decent margin IMO. And given the money they’ve spent they should.

Captain Trips
29-11-2018, 12:05 PM
We’re weaker than last season and other teams are stronger. If we can finish top four again that would be more than respectable given what we lost in the summer.

The Rangers will finish second this year by a decent margin IMO. And given the money they’ve spent they should.

This is your opinion and I have mine I do not think any of the teams around us are any stronger than before. The Rangers spent a lot more than Aberdeen last season and what happened? Last season is irrelevant and while we have been poor I have seen nothing for me to suggest that The Rangers, Aberdeen are so much better than before for me to be concerned.

I fancy our chances

B.H.F.C
29-11-2018, 12:06 PM
This is your opinion and I have mine I do not think any of the teams around us are any stronger than before. The Rangers spent a lot more than Aberdeen last season and what happened?

You don’t think The Rangers or Hearts are stronger than last year? Killie as well when you remember they only played for half a season last year.

Captain Trips
29-11-2018, 12:09 PM
You don’t think The Rangers or Hearts are stronger than last year? Killie as well when you remember they only played for half a season last year.

Hearts maybe, The Rangers do not look anything special IMO or any better worse, Killie seem to be much the same but we will see them on Saturday again. I do not know how strong we can be I am hoping when all fit and settled we will be better.

I certainly do not think our manager wants to finish in the same position he lost good players but has signed players he believes will do the job I am sure. This has nothing to do with any other clubs IMO Hibs are under performing that is why we are off pace.