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Keith_M
21-11-2018, 08:54 PM
...was discussed at the Celtc AGM.

HERE (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/6-key-points-celtic-agm-13623201)


(They're the ones that used to term Sectarian, by the way)


For those that don't want to click the Daily Record link...


"Chairman Bankier hit out at fans who he said take Celtic "into the gutter" by continuing to sing sectarian songs.

One shareholder was praised by Lawwell for his "bravery" in raising the controversial subject from the floor. An increase in sectarian singing at games was the claim, specifically the Beautiful Sunday chant with IRA lyrics and a chant directed at Hearts manager Craig Levein calling him an "orange b*****d".

The man said the majority of the sectarian singing comes from the Green Brigade section of Parkhead. He added: “Not putting all blame on the Green Brigade but drums and megaphones bring the beat for these unsavoury songs.

“It's getting worse now and I want the board to open a dialogue.”

Bankier responded by saying Celtic have no time for what is “‘very damaging and that sort of singing takes club to the gutter”. He urged fans to show disapproval during games and says the guilty parties will soon see they are in a small minority.

Lawwell accepted the problem had got worse in recent times. He added: "It is very unfortunate that a small minority is dragging us down."

gillythehibby
21-11-2018, 09:02 PM
What's this got to do with Hibernian FC?

cleanyman
21-11-2018, 09:04 PM
I thought it was Rangers who only sang such things?

:cb

silverhibee
21-11-2018, 09:04 PM
The green brigade will be painting a banner in disapproval for the next game, for f***ing once I hope they get the spelling right.

It's okay saying they dislike this stuff but until they do something about it then it will just continue and get worse, they won't be outdone by the blue bigots.

I see Celtc are considering not taking any tickets for the old firm game at Ibrox at Xmas time for fear of the safety of there fans.

90+2
21-11-2018, 09:04 PM
What's this got to do with Hibernian FC?

I would guess nothing but good to see they are acknowledging their **** support.

90+2
21-11-2018, 09:06 PM
The green brigade will be painting a banner in disapproval for the next game, for f***ing once I hope they get the spelling right.

It's okay saying they dislike this stuff but until they do something about it then it will just continue and get worse, they won't be outdone by the blue bigots.

I see Celtc are considering not taking any tickets for the old firm game at Ibrox at Xmas time for fear of the safety of there fans.

I wouldnít want to go and sit in that corner pumping huns in a Celtic end. Think of the **** launched at us, spit and even the likes of flares and x by 1000.

Keith_M
21-11-2018, 09:16 PM
What's this got to do with Hibernian FC?


When did it become a rule of this site to never discuss other clubs?

May2116
21-11-2018, 09:23 PM
Good, sure some on here will still defend it however. Just because the abuse from rangers fans is directed at us, and Celtic fans abuse is directed in the other direction, doesnít mean one is worse than the other.

One good thing from Stokes leaving was the dropping of the Ďstokesí daí song at ER.

Canít see Celtic doing something properly about it however, they say minority but they play the beautiful Sunday over their tannoy system and the IRA lyrics are clearly audible, telling me itís more than a minority.

brianmc
21-11-2018, 09:34 PM
When did it become a rule of this site to never discuss other clubs?

Might just be the fact it's posted in the Hibs chat section??

Carheenlea
21-11-2018, 09:52 PM
Good, sure some on here will still defend it however. Just because the abuse from rangers fans is directed at us, and Celtic fans abuse is directed in the other direction, doesnít mean one is worse than the other.

One good thing from Stokes leaving was the dropping of the Ďstokesí daí song at ER.

Canít see Celtic doing something properly about it however, they say minority but they play the beautiful Sunday over their tannoy system and the IRA lyrics are clearly audible, telling me itís more than a minority.

The Stokes song was a daft, light hearted effort sung by never more than a handful of Hibs fans at the occasional away game. I`ve never heard it at ER, certainly not from my seat in the West Upper. The song has had more mentions on Hibs.net threads than actual airings at games.

Iggy Pope
21-11-2018, 10:04 PM
Good, sure some on here will still defend it however. Just because the abuse from rangers fans is directed at us, and Celtic fans abuse is directed in the other direction, doesn’t mean one is worse than the other.

One good thing from Stokes leaving was the dropping of the ‘stokes’ da’ song at ER.

Can’t see Celtic doing something properly about it however, they say minority but they play the beautiful Sunday over their tannoy system and the IRA lyrics are clearly audible, telling me it’s more than a minority.

Terrorism! :paranoid::paranoid:

nonshinyfinish
21-11-2018, 10:06 PM
Might just be the fact it's posted in the Hibs chat section??

In the what?

It's on the main forum, which is described as "The messageboard for all Hibs fans to chat about Hibs and football in general."

May2116
21-11-2018, 10:10 PM
The Stokes song was a daft, light hearted effort sung by never more than a handful of Hibs fans at the occasional away game. I`ve never heard it at ER, certainly not from my seat in the West Upper. The song has had more mentions on Hibs.net threads than actual airings at games.

I agree, Iím not saying it was loud or what have you, but at the likes of tynie and Ibrox you tend to get even more bams singing it on the wind up. Just glad it was dumped before it caught on more.

May2116
21-11-2018, 10:11 PM
Terrorism! :paranoid::paranoid:

Not sure what your point is, however the club canít have a go at the singing of said song, blame the green brigade, yet play it over the tannoy system at parkhead if they are really intent on stopping it.

tamig
21-11-2018, 10:14 PM
What's this got to do with Hibernian FC?

Its a football forum. Donít open the thread if you donít like it. The thread title kind of gives a clue as to the subject matter.

The Modfather
21-11-2018, 10:23 PM
Good, sure some on here will still defend it however. Just because the abuse from rangers fans is directed at us, and Celtic fans abuse is directed in the other direction, doesnít mean one is worse than the other.

One good thing from Stokes leaving was the dropping of the Ďstokesí daí song at ER.

Canít see Celtic doing something properly about it however, they say minority but they play the beautiful Sunday over their tannoy system and the IRA lyrics are clearly audible, telling me itís more than a minority.

Sadly the Stokes song, while not widespread, still gets sung. Also heard, presumably the same knuckledraggers, singing it about Horgans dad at Tynecastle.

Iggy Pope
21-11-2018, 10:24 PM
Not sure what your point is, however the club canít have a go at the singing of said song, blame the green brigade, yet play it over the tannoy system at parkhead if they are really intent on stopping it.

Itís a pop song. Thatís my point.
The point of the thread? Nae idea.

Pete
21-11-2018, 10:40 PM
What's this got to do with Hibernian FC?

Hibs and Celtic are brothers in green.

Haymaker
21-11-2018, 11:07 PM
Hibs and Celtic are brothers in green.

*gets popcorn out*

calumhibee1
21-11-2018, 11:15 PM
Good, sure some on here will still defend it however. Just because the abuse from rangers fans is directed at us, and Celtic fans abuse is directed in the other direction, doesnít mean one is worse than the other.

One good thing from Stokes leaving was the dropping of the Ďstokesí daí song at ER.

Canít see Celtic doing something properly about it however, they say minority but they play the beautiful Sunday over their tannoy system and the IRA lyrics are clearly audible, telling me itís more than a minority.

A bit like when Hearts beat us last season and the first song on after the game was Sweet Caroline so they could all shout **** the pope.. which of course, thousands of them duly obliged.

CentreLine
21-11-2018, 11:36 PM
A bit like when Hearts beat us last season and the first song on after the game was Sweet Caroline so they could all shout **** the pope.. which of course, thousands of them duly obliged.

Didnít take long for the whataboutery to appear. 😏

90+2
21-11-2018, 11:37 PM
Hibs and Celtic are brothers in green.

Sisters also Pete.

HFCEighteen75
22-11-2018, 12:08 AM
Didnít take long for the whataboutery to appear. 😏

Well you can call it whatabouttery, but it's a valid point. While singing about the Provisional IRA is ****my and needless, it's not sectarian. Singing "**** the Pope" is. So Hearts aided and abetted sectarianism on that occasion, and Celtic didn't.

However Celtic's insistence on calling Rangers/Hearts managers "sad orange *******s" is their achilles heel on the sectarianism front. If they cut that out then their songbook would be free of sectarian singing, but still riddled with crass chants about Irish republicanism.

gillythehibby
22-11-2018, 12:23 AM
When did it become a rule of this site to never discuss other clubs?

No Rule mate just think we've got better Hibs things to talk about. Personally I couldny give a damn what songs Celtic fans sing.

May2116
22-11-2018, 08:20 AM
Itís a pop song. Thatís my point.
The point of the thread? Nae idea.

Of course it is. But a pop song theyíve clearly just stated they donít want sung, yet play it across their tannoy to encourage it... not exactly difficult to understand.

CropleyWasGod
22-11-2018, 08:29 AM
Of course it is. But a pop song theyíve clearly just stated they donít want sung, yet play it across their tannoy to encourage it... not exactly difficult to understand.Wait until they find out it was written by Rod McQueen..... [emoji849]

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Pretty Boy
22-11-2018, 08:30 AM
Actions will speak louder than words. It's notable the issue was raised by a supporter; it's often the case that fans are most in denial that there is a problem.

The Modfather
22-11-2018, 08:40 AM
Well you can call it whatabouttery, but it's a valid point. While singing about the Provisional IRA is ****my and needless, it's not sectarian. Singing "**** the Pope" is. So Hearts aided and abetted sectarianism on that occasion, and Celtic didn't.

However Celtic's insistence on calling Rangers/Hearts managers "sad orange *******s" is their achilles heel on the sectarianism front. If they cut that out then their songbook would be free of sectarian singing, but still riddled with crass chants about Irish republicanism.

Donít want to turn this thread into a 10 page Groundhog Day thread. However, while on the face of it you might be right about singing about the IRA not being sectarian, surely in the context of Scotland and Scottish football it is intrinsically linked to sectarianism? In the same way when songs about F the Queen etc are sung they are rooted in sectarianism and not anti royalisim, yet without any context an outsider wouldnít understand the sectarian context.

Onceinawhile
22-11-2018, 09:12 AM
Hibs and Celtic are brothers in green.

Bhrothers ihn ghreen.

Sylar
22-11-2018, 09:50 AM
Celtc will do utterly hee-haw about it, because as much as they like to use the word "minority", everyone knows that to be a lie.

And the sectarian/Pro-IRA £ is worth far too much money to them. Celtc have built their empire on it, using that type of financing to get them into a position where they regularly now reap the rewards of Europe.

Much in the same way that Rangers did (and their new incarnation are continuing to do), in exploiting the sectarian/unionist image to bolster their coffers to try and achieve parity.

The pair of them are profiteering, lip-serving ****my *******s.

FilipinoHibs
22-11-2018, 11:36 AM
...was discussed at the Celtc AGM.

HERE (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/6-key-points-celtic-agm-13623201)


(They're the ones that used to term Sectarian, by the way)


For those that don't want to click the Daily Record link...


"Chairman Bankier hit out at fans who he said take Celtic "into the gutter" by continuing to sing sectarian songs.

One shareholder was praised by Lawwell for his "bravery" in raising the controversial subject from the floor. An increase in sectarian singing at games was the claim, specifically the Beautiful Sunday chant with IRA lyrics and a chant directed at Hearts manager Craig Levein calling him an "orange b*****d".

The man said the majority of the sectarian singing comes from the Green Brigade section of Parkhead. He added: ďNot putting all blame on the Green Brigade but drums and megaphones bring the beat for these unsavoury songs.

ďIt's getting worse now and I want the board to open a dialogue.Ē

Bankier responded by saying Celtic have no time for what is ďĎvery damaging and that sort of singing takes club to the gutterĒ. He urged fans to show disapproval during games and says the guilty parties will soon see they are in a small minority.

Lawwell accepted the problem had got worse in recent times. He added: "It is very unfortunate that a small minority is dragging us down."

Ireland is England's oldest colony. If the English did all the things they did to Scotland that they have done to Ireland I would hope we had a SRA. Siding with oppressed and exploited is not sectarian especially when they offer a non religous and non sectarian state.

The Modfather
22-11-2018, 11:42 AM
Ireland is England's oldest colony. If the English did all the things they did to Scotland that they have done to Ireland I would hope we had a SRA. Siding with oppressed and exploited is not sectarian especially when they offer a non religous and non sectarian state.

What relevance does any of that have to a Scottish football team from Glasgow in 2018?

AgentDaleCooper
22-11-2018, 11:51 AM
Ireland is England's oldest colony. If the English did all the things they did to Scotland that they have done to Ireland I would hope we had a SRA. Siding with oppressed and exploited is not sectarian especially when they offer a non religous and non sectarian state.

and football unequivocally the best forum in which those issues can be dealt with :aok:

this is my last posts on this thread, but this seems to be the pattern of those with a bent for defending singing these songs, waving flags etc - playing semantics with the word 'sectarianism'. it's not about what the word originally meant, what it means now, whether you define this that or the other thing as sectarian, whether you blame this organisation more than that, who is the worst etc etc etc.

people get the ***** kicked out of them because of this issue, and those that perpetrate this don't have a nuanced, educated perspective on what this is all about. to them it's songs, flags, sides and paggering people.

if you want to define your way out of accepting that this is a major problem, then you are part of the problem :aok:

dangermouse
22-11-2018, 12:03 PM
What's this got to do with Hibernian FC?

From my point of view, because we have some seriously dodgy songs of our own, especially those regarding Wallace Mercer. I know he was a bit of a Charlie Uniform November Tango but the songs we sing about him drag us down to the lowest of the low. We should sing songs about celebrating our team like the one at the last Derby about the road to our SC win which was superb. More of these, less of the Mercer type stuff. :tin hat:

superfurryhibby
22-11-2018, 12:12 PM
Actions speak louder than words. Highlighting the issue is a positive, but what are they going to do to try and stop it? The Green Brigade have been a thorn in the flesh for Celtic for a long time.

Maybe they could start by asking the DJ not to play any music which encourages pro IRA singing?

Smartie
22-11-2018, 12:32 PM
From my point of view, because we have some seriously dodgy songs of our own, especially those regarding Wallace Mercer. I know he was a bit of a Charlie Uniform November Tango but the songs we sing about him drag us down to the lowest of the low. We should sing songs about celebrating our team like the one at the last Derby about the road to our SC win which was superb. More of these, less of the Mercer type stuff. :tin hat:

Great post imo.

Part of the problem is that everyone wants to get hung up on definitions to legitimise their own unacceptable conduct and condemn that of others.

Can we really get on our high horse as long as we've got the songs about Mercer, Skacel etc?

Offensive singing is offensive singing whether is is sectarian in nature, celebrating terrorist organisations or the demise of a rival club's chairman, or racist, or homophobic in nature.

What is classed as offensive depends mainly on who is being offended, as the mere existence of Neil Lennon offends some idiots.

I don't like a lot of what comes from fans of Rangers and Celtic but were hardly angels ourselves and debating the definitions of sectarianism are a distraction.

SquashedFrogg
22-11-2018, 12:38 PM
From my point of view, because we have some seriously dodgy songs of our own, especially those regarding Wallace Mercer. I know he was a bit of a Charlie Uniform November Tango but the songs we sing about him drag us down to the lowest of the low. We should sing songs about celebrating our team like the one at the last Derby about the road to our SC win which was superb. More of these, less of the Mercer type stuff. :tin hat:

Just so I'm clear on the rules. It's fine to call Mercer a ****** on a forum, just not in a song?

superfurryhibby
22-11-2018, 12:42 PM
Great post imo.

Part of the problem is that everyone wants to get hung up on definitions to legitimise their own unacceptable conduct and condemn that of others.

Can we really get on our high horse as long as we've got the songs about Mercer, Skacel etc?

Offensive singing is offensive singing whether is is sectarian in nature, celebrating terrorist organisations or the demise of a rival club's chairman, or racist, or homophobic in nature.

What is classed as offensive depends mainly on who is being offended, as the mere existence of Neil Lennon offends some idiots.

I don't like a lot of what comes from fans of Rangers and Celtic but were hardly angels ourselves and debating the definitions of sectarianism are a distraction.

I kind of agree with this and donít join in songs about Mercer etc, but there is a fine line at times.

For example, cheer up Jimmy Jeffries/ Craig Levein. Highly offensive to the fat jambo bassa and fat people/jambo in general, but to my mind acceptable.

Equally, if you want to ask Neil lennon to cheer up whilst calling him a fat ginger bassa, fair enough.

One of the most disgusting songs Iíve heard was from Hibs fans and directed at Darren Jackson, it wasnít sectarian, just plain nasty.

AgentDaleCooper
22-11-2018, 12:50 PM
Just so I'm clear on the rules. It's fine to call Mercer a ****** on a forum, just not in a song?

there aren't really rules, it's an extremely complex topic to pick apart

...not so complex in this case though - the song isn't about him being a see you next tuesday, it's a song celebrating him being dead, and laughing at his wife.

to be honest, there's a part of this song that appeals to my slightly dark/south park style sense of humour, but i still don't think it's ok to sing it.

so if you need a 'rule', calling someone a **** is not as bad as celebrating someone's death. hope that helps :aok:

Keith_M
22-11-2018, 02:41 PM
Itís a pop song. Thatís my point.
The point of the thread? Nae idea.


To raise awareness of a football related article... in particular one that surprised me in the willingness of some at Celtc to admit they had a problem with what they themselves described as Sectarian Songs.


I look forward with interest to the similar issues being raised at The Ranger's AGM.

Diclonius
22-11-2018, 02:44 PM
Can't wait for the Green Brigade's response to this. It will literally be an enormous banner with the phrase "BUT WHAT ABOUT RANGERS?" printed on it.

Game, set and match.

Smartie
22-11-2018, 02:46 PM
I kind of agree with this and don’t join in songs about Mercer etc, but there is a fine line at times.

For example, cheer up Jimmy Jeffries/ Craig Levein. Highly offensive to the fat jambo bassa and fat people/jambo in general, but to my mind acceptable.

Equally, if you want to ask Neil lennon to cheer up whilst calling him a fat ginger bassa, fair enough.

One of the most disgusting songs I’ve heard was from Hibs fans and directed at Darren Jackson, it wasn’t sectarian, just plain nasty.

I also don't want to sanitise it too much.

Mercer was such a divisive character that I would argue some distasteful stuff was fair game at the time of the takeover and even at the time of his death.

It's old news now though, and the longer it goes on for the more irrelevant, distasteful and unnecessary it gets.

I actually accept that there are songs that are unpalatable to some that just should not be banned - Rule Britannia, the Fields of Athenry etc are not sectarian songs, whereas songs about being up to your knees in fenian blood and those that revel in the actions of terrorist organisations are unacceptable.

I remember the song to which you refer, and I remember shuddering when I heard it. There is no way that kind of thing is more acceptable than anything that has come from a Rangers or Celtic end.

Neil Lennon deserves abuse every time he turns up at Tynecastle for the simple reason that he is the Hibs manager. The nature of that abuse shouldn't cross a line though, and should be equivalent to the kind of stuff we happily hurl at Levein or Jefferies.

Stonewall
22-11-2018, 03:56 PM
Can't wait for the Green Brigade's response to this. It will literally be an enormous banner with the phrase "BUT WHAT ABOUT RANGERS?" printed on it.

Game, set and match.

i suspect there will either be a spelling mistake or random apostrophe in there too.

brianmc
22-11-2018, 06:57 PM
In the what?

It's on the main forum, which is described as "The messageboard for all Hibs fans to chat about Hibs and football in general."

Firstly- I was answering a direct question by the OP who was confused as to why posters were commenting 'what's this got to do about hibs?'
Secondly - A discussion about Celtic fans singing sectarian songs has hee haw to do with Hibs QUOTE and football in general QUOTE has it???

The kind of discussion The Holy Ground is meant for...

Sir David Gray
22-11-2018, 07:08 PM
Celtc will do utterly hee-haw about it, because as much as they like to use the word "minority", everyone knows that to be a lie.

And the sectarian/Pro-IRA £ is worth far too much money to them. Celtc have built their empire on it, using that type of financing to get them into a position where they regularly now reap the rewards of Europe.

Much in the same way that Rangers did (and their new incarnation are continuing to do), in exploiting the sectarian/unionist image to bolster their coffers to try and achieve parity.

The pair of them are profiteering, lip-serving ****my *******s.

:agree: Utter filth.

nonshinyfinish
23-11-2018, 10:29 AM
Firstly- I was answering a direct question by the OP who was confused as to why posters were commenting 'what's this got to do about hibs?'
Secondly - A discussion about Celtic fans singing sectarian songs has hee haw to do with Hibs QUOTE and football in general QUOTE has it???

The kind of discussion The Holy Ground is meant for...

That would make sense if your original post had argued that it wasn't a suitable discussion for a football board, rather than a mythical 'Hibs only' board.

(IMO it is to do with football Ė while any thread in this kind of topic is inevitably going to stray into Holy Ground territory, in this case the OP was about the board of Celtic Football Club discussing songs sung at football matches by fans of Celtic Football Club.)

Iggy Pope
23-11-2018, 05:58 PM
Of course it is. But a pop song theyíve clearly just stated they donít want sung, yet play it across their tannoy to encourage it... not exactly difficult to understand.

It reads to me like a shareholder raised the general question from the floor about this song in particular, not Ďtheyí the club as you seem to be implying. Thatís easy enough to understand Iím sure youíll agree.

WhileTheChief..
23-11-2018, 06:03 PM
Ireland is England's oldest colony. If the English did all the things they did to Scotland that they have done to Ireland I would hope we had a SRA. Siding with oppressed and exploited is not sectarian especially when they offer a non religous and non sectarian state.

You mean like during the Highland clearances, or the rape and pillaging across Scotland 700 odd years ago??

Load of pish.

Keith_M
23-11-2018, 06:40 PM
Firstly- I was answering a direct question by the OP who was confused as to why posters were commenting 'what's this got to do about hibs?'
Secondly - A discussion about Celtic fans singing sectarian songs has hee haw to do with Hibs QUOTE and football in general QUOTE has it???

The kind of discussion The Holy Ground is meant for...


Celtc are a Football Club, hence I'd say it was football related.

It shouldn't be, but it's a sad fact of life in Scotland, especially at Cetlc and The Rangers games.


Oh and the people that complained about it being called Sectarian Singing; you need to take that up with the people at the Celtc AGM who used that term to describe it...as I quite clearly pointed out in the original post.

O'Rourke3
23-11-2018, 06:54 PM
I look forward with interest to the similar issues being raised at The Ranger's AGM.

It will be. Someone will point out that Celtc fans have admitted it and leave it at that. They will continue to sing their folk songs with a moral high ground.

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Keith_M
23-11-2018, 07:52 PM
It will be. Someone will point out that Celtc fans have admitted it and leave it at that. They will continue to sing their folk songs with a moral high ground.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk


Probably, yeah.

silverhibee
24-11-2018, 02:43 PM
It will be. Someone will point out that Celtc fans have admitted it and leave it at that. They will continue to sing their folk songs with a moral high ground.

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Green brigade on strike today.