Current Spanish Foreign Minister on Scottish Independence and the EU

[JeMeSouviens]

Josep Borrell (Who is Catalan but viscerally opposed to Catalan independence.)

https://www.facebook.com/POLITICOeu/videos/658048887922224/?t=2876

"If Westminster agrees why should we be against it?"

Hopefully that clears that up. (Aye, sure it will :rolleyes:).

[lucky]

Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So it’s not looking likely that Spain’s opinion will matter any time soon

[JeMeSouviens]

Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So it’s not looking likely that Spain’s opinion will matter any time soon

Latest poll showing if you throw in a non-standard question people aren't familiar with you get a slightly out of line answer. :rolleyes:

[JeMeSouviens]

Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So it’s not looking likely that Spain’s opinion will matter any time soon

To illustrate just how ridiculous this is, look into the numbers. Versus a standard Yes/No Survation poll done 6 weeks ago, this Remain/Leave poll shows the 16-34 age group going from 68-32 for Yes to 57-43 for "Remain".

Presumably you're not stupid enough to be taken in by this rubbish - did you really think lots of folk on here would be? :rolleyes:

It's this sort of blatant "take posters for idiots" approach that sees people decry the quality of posting on here.

[Callum_62]

Certainly the latest “poll” looks like an outlier , most recent polls have it fairly even - certainly not a cert either way and definitely not by 10% margin


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[James310]

From the Scotsmen.

Polling agency Survation used a wording based on the 2016 EU referendum, asking people how they would vote in response to the question “should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom?”

Question seems reasonable to me, why do you think otherwise?

[Callum_62]

Guess the question is why a 10% or more swing from:

should Scotland be an independent country?

To

Should Scotland leave the united kingdom or remain in the united kingdom?


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[James310]

Guess the question is why a 10% or more swing from:

should Scotland be an independent country?

To

Should Scotland leave the united kingdom or remain in the united kingdom?


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We saying people would vote one way with one of the questions but then another way when asked the other question?

Yes or No and Leave or Remain seem like solid positive or negative answers.

[Callum_62]

We saying people would vote one way with one of the questions but then another way when asked the other question?

Yes or No and Leave or Remain seem like solid positive or negative answers.

Its certainly a massive swing

Cant think if anything super positive thats happened to legitimately cause that to happen

Certainly odd anyway


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[JeMeSouviens]

From the Scotsmen.

Polling agency Survation used a wording based on the 2016 EU referendum, asking people how they would vote in response to the question “should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom?”

Question seems reasonable to me, why do you think otherwise?

Because it requires the respondent to mentally map remain/leave onto their familiar yes/no Scottish independence answer while disregarding their attitude to the question of remain/leave vis a vis Brexit.

Looking at the numbers, you can either believe that some of them answered carelessly or there has been a sudden, massive swing in favour of the Union, strongest among the young (the group most pro-Yes and pro-Brexit-remain) and weakest (actually a slight swing to Yes) among the 55+ age group (the group most pro-No and pro-Brexit-leave).


And, of course, lucky is a pro-Union Labour activist who almost certainly knows all of the above. Disingenuous much?

If you believe the latter, I have a bridge you might be interested in?

[IGRIGI]

Funny how the resident unionists have nothing to say about what was mentioned in the OP.

[Fife-Hibee]

With this now being clearly clarified, perhaps we should have a poll worded:

"Should Scotland be an independent nation within the EU with access to the single market? or should Scotland remain in the UK outwith the EU without access to the single market?"

Wonder what the outcome would be then.

[Fife-Hibee]

Or how about:

"Should Scotland join a union of 27 other member states with equal representation? Or should Scotland remain in a union of 4 member states, where 1 state calls the shots?"

[JeMeSouviens]

Or how about:

"Should Scotland join a union of 27 other member states with equal representation? Or should Scotland remain in a union of 4 member states, where 1 state calls the shots?"

You shouldn't indulge this Unionist fantasy spin about "member states" in the UK. It's 1 state, ruled from the centre.

[CropleyWasGod]

With this now being clearly clarified, perhaps we should have a poll worded:

"Should Scotland be an independent nation within the EU with access to the single market? or should Scotland remain in the UK outwith the EU without access to the single market?"

Wonder what the outcome would be then.

You'd have to add, for balance... "should Scotland be an independent nation, outwith the EU?".

[Fife-Hibee]

You'd have to add, for balance... "should Scotland be an independent nation, outwith the EU?".

Which would result in a 3 way split, with none of the options getting a majority. Perhaps:

"Should Scotland be an independent country with the option of joining the EU? Or remain part of the UK with no future option to rejoin?"

[JeMeSouviens]

Which would result in a 3 way split, with none of the options getting a majority. Perhaps:

"Should Scotland be an independent country with the option of joining the EU? Or remain part of the UK with no future option to rejoin?"

The UK would have an option to rejoin*, subject to some interesting negotiations I'd imagine.

* but hopefully won't leave in the first place.

[Saturday Boy]

Which would result in a 3 way split, with none of the options getting a majority. Perhaps:

"Should Scotland be an independent country with the option of joining the EU? Or remain part of the UK with no future option to rejoin?"

And I thought the Nations League was complicated 😉

[steakbake]

Because it requires the respondent to mentally map remain/leave onto their familiar yes/no Scottish independence answer while disregarding their attitude to the question of remain/leave vis a vis Brexit.

Looking at the numbers, you can either believe that some of them answered carelessly or there has been a sudden, massive swing in favour of the Union, strongest among the young (the group most pro-Yes and pro-Brexit-remain) and weakest (actually a slight swing to Yes) among the 55+ age group (the group most pro-No and pro-Brexit-leave).


And, of course, lucky is a pro-Union Labour activist who almost certainly knows all of the above. Disingenuous much?

If you believe the latter, I have a bridge you might be interested in?

It’s a daft question and undermines the poll entirely.

Watch for media pressure to change the question to those terms - which are of course, naturally biased towards remain.

Any trick, any gerrymandering will do...

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17236596.scotland-in-union-attempt-to-skew-yes-poll-backfires/?ref=twtrec

[ronaldo7]

Latest poll showing 60% of Scots want to remain part of the UK. So it’s not looking likely that Spain’s opinion will matter any time soon

Oh dear, what have labour become. Pamela Nash would be proud of you.

Mon Scottish slavers.

[lucky]

Oh dear, what have labour become. Pamela Nash would be proud of you.

Mon Scottish slavers.

Lovely response as usual. What this poll proves is that the question being asked is vitally important. In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.

Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotland’s railways in private hands last week.

[JeMeSouviens]

Lovely response as usual. What this poll proves is that the question being asked is vitally important. In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.

Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotland’s railways in private hands last week.

Big sigh - it really doesn't. You can put a short term skew on the numbers by confusing or misleading folk, but it doesn't last once they get used to the new question. So dream on.

And your last line - gonnae start your own petty nat/yoon-bashing thread if that's all your interested in and you can bash away there? :rolleyes:

[lucky]

Big sigh - it really doesn't. You can put a short term skew on the numbers by confusing or misleading folk, but it doesn't last once they get used to the new question. So dream on.

And your last line - gonnae start your own petty nat/yoon-bashing thread if that's all your interested in and you can bash away there? :rolleyes:
I was just responding to the usual crap I get from the payroll Nat. But I think I’ll just bow out from posting as it’s pointless unless your part of the clan

[danhibees1875]

Because it requires the respondent to mentally map remain/leave onto their familiar yes/no Scottish independence answer while disregarding their attitude to the question of remain/leave vis a vis Brexit.

Looking at the numbers, you can either believe that some of them answered carelessly or there has been a sudden, massive swing in favour of the Union, strongest among the young (the group most pro-Yes and pro-Brexit-remain) and weakest (actually a slight swing to Yes) among the 55+ age group (the group most pro-No and pro-Brexit-leave).


And, of course, lucky is a pro-Union Labour activist who almost certainly knows all of the above. Disingenuous much?

If you believe the latter, I have a bridge you might be interested in?

Sorry, I'm maybe totally misreading your post here - are you saying that some Yes&Remain supporters are so engrossed in the "Remain" battle currently that when asked if Scotland should remain in the UK they just instinctively say "Remain"?

It certainly looks like a bit of an outlier in general for a sudden lurch to No compared to all other polls though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence

[James310]

Sorry, I'm maybe totally misreading your post here - are you saying that some Yes&Remain supporters are so engrossed in the "Remain" battle currently that when asked if Scotland should remain in the UK they just instinctively say "Remain"?

It certainly looks like a bit of an outlier in general for a sudden lurch to No compared to all other polls though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence

I did find it a bit odd that there is a suggestion that people are confused between remaining part of the UK and leaving the UK they have answered incorrectly. Suggesting they thought they were being asked about the EU? I mean remain and leave are not easily confused. I find it hard to believe people answered remain in the UK but actually meant remain in the EU when the question never even referenced the EU.

[Fife-Hibee]

In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.

You don't see the problem with that?

You're quite happy for our lords and masters at westminster to dictate the terms of a referendum in our own country? Nothing that comes out of the minds of British Nationalist/Unionists surprises me at this point. :rolleyes:


Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotland’s railways in private hands last week.

Perhaps you can explain why Labour when they were in power in Scotland turned down the opportunity to renationalize Scotland's railways?

Could it have been.... (and this is just a hunch)..... down to a lack of funding?

If the SNP had backed a policy to renationalize the railways, would Labour have supported the budget at Westminster to make it financially possible? :hmmm:

[ronaldo7]

Lovely response as usual. What this poll proves is that the question being asked is vitally important. In the unlikely event of an agreement on a future independence referendum I doubt that the SNP will be the ones choosing the wording.

Great to see the Tartan Tories join up the original Tories to keep Scotland’s railways in private hands last week.

Railway privatisation. Lols.

13 years in power in the UK from 1997, to 2010. Nada, zilch, zip.

Back on track, how are those privatised deals doing in labour run, Wales.

[JeMeSouviens]

Sorry, I'm maybe totally misreading your post here - are you saying that some Yes&Remain supporters are so engrossed in the "Remain" battle currently that when asked if Scotland should remain in the UK they just instinctively say "Remain"?

It certainly looks like a bit of an outlier in general for a sudden lurch to No compared to all other polls though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Remember this wasn't a phone poll so nobody read out the questions to them, they had to read them carefully and then tick the right box. As I said above, it's not a uniform lurch from Y->N. The age group you'd most expect to be Yes (from all other polling) suddenly went to No and the age group you'd most expect to be No moved slightly to Yes. The only plausible explanation is confusion/carelessness by the respondents. If you think about it, it's not a huge stretch to imagine some will have skim read the questions and ticked the wrong box.

For reliable opinion poll results it's best to stick with the well known question. But then, the client in this case has a vested interest in a skewed result.

[JeMeSouviens]

Railway privatisation. Lols.

13 years in power in the UK from 1997, to 2010. Nada, zilch, zip.

Back on track, how are those privatised deals doing in labour run, Wales.

GET YOUR OWN THREAD!! :grr:

[ronaldo7]

GET YOUR OWN THREAD!! :grr:

:greengrin :thumbsup:

Update on Scotsman poll.:wink:

21421

[danhibees1875]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Remember this wasn't a phone poll so nobody read out the questions to them, they had to read them carefully and then tick the right box. As I said above, it's not a uniform lurch from Y->N. The age group you'd most expect to be Yes (from all other polling) suddenly went to No and the age group you'd most expect to be No moved slightly to Yes. The only plausible explanation is confusion/carelessness by the respondents. If you think about it, it's not a huge stretch to imagine some will have skim read the questions and ticked the wrong box.

For reliable opinion poll results it's best to stick with the well known question. But then, the client in this case has a vested interest in a skewed result.

I guess I could maybe see that happening.

With a sample size of 1000 people then it's always likely to fluctuate a bit and have the odd massive outlier too - could just be one of those.

[weecounty hibby]

:greengrin :thumbsup:

Update on Scotsman poll.:wink:

21421
I would be the happiest man in the world if that was really the case. Just don't see it......yet. I do however firmly believe that the Brexit debacle has made even more people see the massive benefits in being in control of your own destiny. Fingers crossed that this numbers are true though

[JeMeSouviens]

I would be the happiest man in the world if that was really the case. Just don't see it......yet. I do however firmly believe that the Brexit debacle has made even more people see the massive benefits in being in control of your own destiny. Fingers crossed that this numbers are true though

It's a self selecting newspaper poll, ie. not worth the paper it's (not) written on.

See Gallup vs the Literary Digest and all available evidence since!

[weecounty hibby]

It's a self selecting newspaper poll, ie. not worth the paper it's (not) written on.

See Gallup vs the Literary Digest and all available evidence since!
Yeah, I know. I do believe that in general in my non scientific method of actually speaking to folk that people who were mild no voters are actually beginning to come round and see the light. There are of course those who will never be persuaded but we just need to work with them when, not if, Scotland does become independent

[ronaldo7]

I would be the happiest man in the world if that was really the case. Just don't see it......yet. I do however firmly believe that the Brexit debacle has made even more people see the massive benefits in being in control of your own destiny. Fingers crossed that this numbers are true though

Heavily weighted with dirty nats sharing on the Twattersphere.