What's the difference between Scotland and Switzerland ?

[worcesterhibby]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0

So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?

[The Tubs]

The thread on Brexit/immigration is on the Holy Ground. :wink:

[SirDavidsNapper]

It's not just the Swiss though. Iceland, Ireland, Wales, Norway etc have out performed us for years.

[PatHead]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0

So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?

I don't know much about Switzerland other than it is hilly, they make funny chocolate and have lots of banks.

Could their higher seeding in qualification help?

Also do their teams qualify for latter stages of European club tournaments regularly, also how many of their players play abroad.

[superfurryhibby]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0

So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?

Being pedantic, they have a population and tv revenues from the game that are statistically fairly significantly higher than ours.

Better coaching, facilities, more enlightenend sports governance, weather, genetics, attitude and lifestyles, fewer social class obstacles to participating in football......

The Swiss have been, ahem, on a roll for a good few years now. Whatever it is they are getting right, it’s not just a flash in the pan.

As a general rule, I do think we need to look closely at models of football in successful smaller nations. Sustainable success doesn’t just happen by chance.

My personal bugbear is 11 aside football coming in too early for kids who perform at an average level. What is the point of shivering your erchie off at the Jack Kane Centre for ahalf a dozen touches per game? I am guessing, but imagine that drop off rates are quite sharp once children make the step up from 7 or 9’s to 11’s and no wonder.

[Gordy M]

They have also been greatly assisted by players who have decided to play for them from other countries. Im sure Xhaka and Xhakiri are possibly Albanian? There will be others im sure.

[calumhibee1]

They have also been greatly assisted by players who have decided to play for them from other countries. Im sure Xhaka and Xhakiri are possibly Albanian? There will be others im sure.

Sure xhaka is Swiss. Think his brother opted to play for Albania even though he is also Swiss.

You’re right about Shaqiri though although I believe has possibly from Kosovo?

[lyonhibs]

The facilities here absolutely skoosh over what we have back at home, at least when I was growing up.

Speed and technical skills are prioritised over strength and aerial ability. Some of the younger age group teams I see playing on adjacent pitches are slick, quick and accurate, with the ball on the deck most of the time.

I'm not au fait with what the state of play as far as facilities and youth coaching in Scotland go, but we'll be playing catch up with Switzerland for a while I suspect.

[worcesterhibby]

I just realised FIFA headquarters is in Zurich ! it's all a fix !! :greengrin

Seriously though I sometimes wonder if we are too segregated by class in UK for our football teams to succeed internationally. State school children mostly play football, private school kids mostly play rugby. I would suggest that the number of private school educated players who have played for Scotland you could count on one hand. In my opinion a broader mix of backgrounds would benefit the sport. (just for the record I went to Trinity Academy). Private school sports teams and facilities are better funded and I would suggest often have better coaching than state schools. All that resource is pumped into Rugby, not football.

[G B Young]

I don't claim to know anything about the structure of Swiss football, but to cultivate consistent success I'd assume there is a coaching structure in place that lays firm foundations for the future.

In Scotland we bemoan bad luck, tough groups etc and by and large seem to simply hope that one day we'll get lucky when the simple fact is we've been p**h for more than 20 years. Nothing to do with bad luck. What became of Henry McLeish's much-vaunted Project Brave, launched when we'd achieved a decade of failure to qualify for anything? Another decade down the line and we're rattling about with the likes of Albania and Israel. It's pitiful stuff.

As has been the case with England until recently, club football comes first for most players and fans with most club managers desperate to see their players withdraw from national squads at the slightest sign of a sniffle and avoid the risk of injury while on international duty. No surprise really given the pressure club managers operate under. There are also way too many international fixtures throughout the year which turns a lot of folk off due to the disruptive effect on the domestic season.

[Diclonius]

Switzerland don't have two disproportionately wealthy clubs that influence the national organisations so much to the point where everything is leveraged to their benefit at the expense of the rest of the clubs and the national game.

[Bostonhibby]

Switzerland seem to have a modern football structure, decent manager and are not bad at football?

The other one is Scottish football.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

I just realised FIFA headquarters is in Zurich ! it's all a fix !! :greengrin

Seriously though I sometimes wonder if we are too segregated by class in UK for our football teams to succeed internationally. State school children mostly play football, private school kids mostly play rugby. I would suggest that the number of private school educated players who have played for Scotland you could count on one hand. In my opinion a broader mix of backgrounds would benefit the sport. (just for the record I went to Trinity Academy). Private school sports teams and facilities are better funded and I would suggest often have better coaching than state schools. All that resource is pumped into Rugby, not football.

Take Edinburgh, approximately 20-25% of high school children attend a fee paying school. Football isn’t a high priority and as you say, the numbers of private school educated or even educated footballers has traditionally been very low. Out football culture helps exclude a lot of people from participating.

Totally anecdotal, but I steered my two youngest boys away from playing football. Too many bams involved at coaching, playing and parenting level.

My own eldest was trained from infancy to play football. He did well at boys club, flirted with pro youth and then gave up the game for ten years. He’s back playing and at a good level. When I considered what he experienced as a juvenile player, no way did I want my other boys to deal with it.

Being a bit of a pompous twat, I would say post 5, paragraph 2 of this thread nailed it. The question isn’t really why, it’s what are we going to do about it?

[The_Horde]

Switzerland produces Kamberi.

Scotland produces Simon Murray.

[matty_f]

Our flag's for multiplication, whereas their flag is a big plus.

[FilipinoHibs]

Being pedantic, they have a population and tv revenues from the game that are statistically fairly significantly higher than ours.

Better coaching, facilities, more enlightenend sports governance, weather, genetics, attitude and lifestyles, fewer social class obstacles to participating in football......

The Swiss have been, ahem, on a roll for a good few years now. Whatever it is they are getting right, it’s not just a flash in the pan.

As a general rule, I do think we need to look closely at models of football in successful smaller nations. Sustainable success doesn’t just happen by chance.

My personal bugbear is 11 aside football coming in too early for kids who perform at an average level. What is the point of shivering your erchie off at the Jack Kane Centre for ahalf a dozen touches per game? I am guessing, but imagine that drop off rates are quite sharp once children make the step up from 7 or 9’s to 11’s and no wonder.

World class tennis players too as have we. Down to coaching and culture

[I'm Spartacus]

I'd guess it's because our game and it's Senior figures feed from the ****ty ********s of Celtic and SevCo/Liquidation United

[madsen5]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0
Independence 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳
So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?

Independence.

[overdrive]

Switzerland produces Kamberi.

Scotland produces Simon Murray.

Kamberi is also of Albanian heritage. I really think mass immigration / being a haven for asylum seekers from the former Yugoslavia has helped them massively.

[leithsansiro]

I just realised FIFA headquarters is in Zurich ! it's all a fix !! :greengrin

Seriously though I sometimes wonder if we are too segregated by class in UK for our football teams to succeed internationally. State school children mostly play football, private school kids mostly play rugby. I would suggest that the number of private school educated players who have played for Scotland you could count on one hand. In my opinion a broader mix of backgrounds would benefit the sport. (just for the record I went to Trinity Academy). Private school sports teams and facilities are better funded and I would suggest often have better coaching than state schools. All that resource is pumped into Rugby, not football.

Which is part of the reason why Scotland, proportionally, inch above our weight at rugby.

[Diclonius]

Switzerland produces Kamberi.

Scotland produces Simon Murray.

Not quite the same. We signed Kamberi from Grasshoppers (one of their bigger clubs) and Murray from Dundee Utd. The Scottish equivalent to Kamberi would be someone like Michael O'Halloran.

[JeMeSouviens]

Which is part of the reason why Scotland, proportionally, inch above our weight at rugby.

It's a good point. Scotland has a tiny active rugby population compared to even other small countries like Wales or NZ, and do remarkably well considering, but a huge active footy population and we're pish.

[Keith_M]

The thread on Brexit/immigration is on the Holy Ground. :wink:


When did Switzerland join the EU?

[Bristolhibby]

Switzerland produces Kamberi.

Scotland produces Simon Murray.

Also of Kosovan origin.

Is one of our problem, not enough immigrants?

J

[JeMeSouviens]

When did Switzerland join the EU?

Kosovo hasn't managed to yet either.

[Keith_M]

Kosovo hasn't managed to yet either.


In Switzerland's case, it's more that they don't want to... snobby pwicks the lot of them.



Did I mention I have to deal with the Swiss regularly at work?


Bitter? Moi?


:wink:

[hfc rd]

It's not just the Swiss though. Iceland, Ireland, Wales, Norway etc have out performed us for years.

Norway? They are on a similar boat to ourselves in terms of not qualifying for a major tournament for the last 20 years. Wouldn’t say they have out performed us for years.

[portyfelly]

Our flag's for multiplication, whereas their flag is a big plus.

Toblerone :cb

[worcesterhibby]

We really should ban rugby and make posh boys play and pay for Football facilities...it would make a hell of a difference. I'm not actually joking (well I am about banning Rugby) but I do think we would have a very different structure to football in this country if Rugby didn't exist and Private Schools concentrated on Football. There would be far, far less West coast bias for a start ! #savescottishfootball #banrugby

[Keith_M]

Toblerone :cb


Toblerone v Tunnocks Tea Cakes?


Fight!!!

[hibby6270]

Switzerland have higher mountains than Scotland!!
Toblerone is more widely sold than Tunnocks tea cakes!!
Since the Timex factory closed in Dundee, the Swiss can boast they DO make better watches than us!!
The Swiss have more snow, so are probably better skiers than the Scots!!
Much as it pains me to say but Roger Federer is better than Andy Murray!!

Well. You did ask...........

[hfc rd]

We really should ban rugby and make posh boys play and pay for Football facilities...it would make a hell of a difference. I'm not actually joking (well I am about banning Rugby) but I do think we would have a very different structure to football in this country if Rugby didn't exist and Private Schools concentrated on Football. There would be far, far less West coast bias for a start ! #savescottishfootball #banrugby


Sorry but that’s a load of rubbish. Rugby isn’t the problem. Countries like Wales and Ireland play rugby in fact have more professional rugby clubs and facilities than we do in this sport. It’s Wales’ national sport yet they have outperformed us on the footballing side as well in recent years. Banning it from private schools etc is mad. Surely it’s a kids preference which sport they prefer/enjoy playing. If they want to play rugby, then fair enough if that is what they prefer/enjoy more.

[Keith_M]

Switzerland have higher mountains than Scotland!!
Toblerone is more widely sold than Tunnocks tea cakes!!
Since the Timex factory closed in Dundee, the Swiss can boast they DO make better watches than us!!
The Swiss have more snow, so are probably better skiers than the Scots!!
Much as it pains me to say but Roger Federer is better than Andy Murray!!

Well. You did ask...........


They have snobby bottled water; we have Irn Bru.
They have the corrupt FIFA; we have the bitter and twisted SFA.
They have Lake Zurich; we have Duddingston Loch
They got rich from Nazi Gold and money siphoned off by evil Dictators like Mugabe; we got rich from, ehm, well, I'll have to think about that one.
They have Sepp Blatter; we have the Loch Ness Monster


No contest!

[MWHIBBIES]

Probably helps that their players show a bit of ambition by moving to the big leagues rather than staying comfortable at home winning easy trophies.

[portyfelly]

Toblerone v Tunnocks Tea Cakes?


Fight!!!

What we know for certain .....the fat ******* wins!

[JeMeSouviens]

They have snobby bottled water; we have Irn Bru.
They have the corrupt FIFA; we have the bitter and twisted SFA.
They have Lake Zurich; we have Duddingston Loch
They got rich from Nazi Gold and money siphoned off by evil Dictators like Mugabe; we got rich from, ehm, well, I'll have to think about that one.
They have Sepp Blatter; we have the Loch Ness Monster


No contest!

They have Rivella. If you haven't tried it, don't. :jamboak:

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Also of Kosovan origin.

Is one of our problem, not enough immigrants?

J
I didn’t know Simon Murray was Kosovan

You learn something new every day!

[Spudster]

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

GDP per capita
Swiss $61,360
Scotland $43,740

The gap between them and us in GDP is the same as us to Lithuania, Estonia and Trinidad. I've worked with Swiss companies before who have a huge misunderstanding of Scotland cos they think we should be similar (given population etc). They soon change their tune after seeing an image of Greenock or Hamilton!

[The Tubs]

When did Switzerland join the EU?


When did the EU control British immigration policy?

[Kato]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0

So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?



They don't have the Scottish Football Association running their game?

[Jonnyboy]

Our flag's for multiplication, whereas their flag is a big plus.

😂 😂 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇨🇭

[Hibrandenburg]

Switzerland outperforming Scotland at football is a bit like us hammering them at downhill skiing.

[FifeHibs]

Scrabble points
Switzerland 24
Scotland 11

[lyonhibs]

They have Rivella. If you haven't tried it, don't. :jamboak:

Agreed. No good carbonated drink contains milk serum.

[Smartie]

These arguments are a bit more fun when we've not just played very well in winning 4-0 away from home.

Yes, we're a bit hit or miss at the moment but a win tonight (that we should be easily capable of) and we've had a decent campaign (whilst acknowledging the poor result and performance in Israel).

Can we not give ourselves a bit of a break for a change, must we constantly savage everything that we're doing wrong? As far as I can see we have some good young players, some ok facilities, some very good youth coaches and clubs and are in all likelihood we are on track to improve our lot a bit over the next few years, probably ending up roughly where a country of our size could/should expect to be?

[allezsauzee]

Scotland might not be great in football terms at the moment but we compete at a high level in a broad range of sports that other similarly sized nations maybe don't. Rugby, Swimming, Darts, Snooker, Cycling, Boxing, Athletics, Rowing to name a few. While these sports are probably run by reasonably competent people, Football is definitely not so perhaps not surprising that our young athletes end up pursuing other sports.

[Keith_M]

When did the EU control British immigration policy?


Ehm ,wasn't I replying to a post about Brexit?

I get easily confused nowadays, but I could have sworn I did.

:na na:



Anyway, I bet Switzerland aren't forced to have straight Bananas. I think our downfall as a football nation is linked to that disgraceful EU edict.


"Rule, Britannia,
Brittania's straight Bananas!"

[Keith_M]

Scotland might not be great in football terms at the moment but we compete at a high level in a broad range of sports that other similarly sized nations maybe don't. Rugby, Swimming, Darts, Snooker, Cycling, Boxing, Athletics, Rowing to name a few. While these sports are probably run by reasonably competent people, Football is definitely not so perhaps not surprising that our young athletes end up pursuing other sports.



Don't forget Shinty

[worcesterhibby]

Sorry but that’s a load of rubbish. Rugby isn’t the problem. Countries like Wales and Ireland play rugby in fact have more professional rugby clubs and facilities than we do in this sport. It’s Wales’ national sport yet they have outperformed us on the footballing side as well in recent years. Banning it from private schools etc is mad. Surely it’s a kids preference which sport they prefer/enjoy playing. If they want to play rugby, then fair enough if that is what they prefer/enjoy more.

I did say I was joking about banning Rugby..Wales outperform us recently almost entirely due to the Gareth Bale effect. Without him I very much doubt they would have qualified for anything. They went 40 years without qualifying for a single tournament before he came along. It's like suggesting Scotland are doing great at Tennis because of Andy Murray. Once Bale is gone they will be back to square one.

The point I'm making is that almost all Scottish football players, coaches and admin staff come from one socio-economic group..if that pool of players, coaches and admin staff included other socio-economic groups (who are generally educated to a higher standard and have access to a higher income and more lucrative funding streams) then Scottish football would be better for it. That doesn't happen because Rugby takes footballs place for privately educated sportsman. That's not the case in places like Holland, Germany and Switzerland. I'm not actually suggesting we should ban rugby, I'm saying that if it wasn't for Rugby we would be in a far better place.

Scottish footballers don't generally mix with anyone who has been to University, their outlooks tend to be fairly insular and they often struggle to maintain a professional lifestyle when they"make it". They seem to generally prefer to stay in Scotland "with their mates" rather than test themselves and improve themselves by going abroad and developing their careers. They are intimidated by the need to learn a foreign language and adapt to a different culture. To be fair this is true across most of British football. The Chelsea players used to call Pat Nevin "the Professor" because he read the Guardian rather than the sun and the mirror ! I'm delighted to see a smart young guy like Liam Henderson playing out Italy, it can only be a good thing for Scottish football in general.

In my experience, Grass roots football is plagued by aggressive coaches and the antics of parents on the sidelines that wouldn't be tolerated at Junior Rugby 7's games. Just look at the video of Hibs juniors being booed by the crowd that was circulated this week.

[Bostonhibby]

Switzerland outperforming Scotland at football is a bit like us hammering them at downhill skiing.Agree, and their cows will always wear better bells than ours sadly.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It's not just the Swiss though. Iceland, Ireland, Wales, Norway etc have out performed us for years.

While this is undoubtedly true, scotland also outperformed all of thise countries for decades. Maybe its a cyclical thing? Norway are pretty rubbish again, as are ireland. Switzerland are having a particularly good spell just now.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

We really should ban rugby and make posh boys play and pay for Football facilities...it would make a hell of a difference. I'm not actually joking (well I am about banning Rugby) but I do think we would have a very different structure to football in this country if Rugby didn't exist and Private Schools concentrated on Football. There would be far, far less West coast bias for a start ! #savescottishfootball #banrugby

I akso wonder if this is part of our problenmm with sometimes lacking physique - a lot of naturally big lads will play rugby rather than fotball here?

[superfurryhibby]

I did say I was joking about banning Rugby..Wales outperform us recently almost entirely due to the Gareth Bale effect. Without him I very much doubt they would have qualified for anything. They went 40 years without qualifying for a single tournament before he came along. It's like suggesting Scotland are doing great at Tennis because of Andy Murray. Once Bale is gone they will be back to square one.

The point I'm making is that almost all Scottish football players, coaches and admin staff come from one socio-economic group..if that pool of players, coaches and admin staff included other socio-economic groups (who are generally educated to a higher standard and have access to a higher income and more lucrative funding streams) then Scottish football would be better for it. That doesn't happen because Rugby takes footballs place for privately educated sportsman. That's not the case in places like Holland, Germany and Switzerland. I'm not actually suggesting we should ban rugby, I'm saying that if it wasn't for Rugby we would be in a far better place.

Scottish footballers don't generally mix with anyone who has been to University, their outlooks tend to be fairly insular and they often struggle to maintain a professional lifestyle when they"make it". They seem to generally prefer to stay in Scotland "with their mates" rather than test themselves and improve themselves by going abroad and developing their careers. They are intimidated by the need to learn a foreign language and adapt to a different culture. To be fair this is true across most of British football. The Chelsea players used to call Pat Nevin "the Professor" because he read the Guardian rather than the sun and the mirror ! I'm delighted to see a smart young guy like Liam Henderson playing out Italy, it can only be a good thing for Scottish football in general.

In my experience, Grass roots football is plagued by aggressive coaches and the antics of parents on the sidelines that wouldn't be tolerated at Junior Rugby 7's games. Just look at the video of Hibs juniors being booed by the crowd that was circulated this week.

I agree with much of this and think you raise some points well worth discussion. I’m not buying into the idea that our football would be in a better place without rugby though.

What is more relevant is the broader issues you raise, and I made some very similar ones earlier myself, around football culture, the barriers to participation from all socio- economic groups and behaviours that aren’t that acceptable. Strange how no one wants to discuss this, it seems worthy of consideration.

As I already said, we know why we’re Tom Kite, but we don’t seem to know what to do about it?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I agree with much of this and think you raise some points well worth discussion. I’m not buying into the idea that our football would be in a better place without rugby though.

What is more relevant is the broader issues you raise, and I made some very similar ones earlier myself, around football culture, the barriers to participation from all socio- economic groups and behaviours that aren’t that acceptable. Strange how no one wants to discuss this, it seems worthy of consideration.

As I already said, we know why we’re Tom Kite, but we don’t seem to know what to do about it?

I think its a good point - when you listen to some of the Dutch or spanish players talk about football, they speak in a far more cerebral way than you ever really here scottish footballers talk.

They think about the game more, whereas brains are seen as a bad thing here. Perhaps this is related to the 'class' point?

[The 90+2]

There’s a mountain in difference.

[JeMeSouviens]

I did say I was joking about banning Rugby..Wales outperform us recently almost entirely due to the Gareth Bale effect. Without him I very much doubt they would have qualified for anything. They went 40 years without qualifying for a single tournament before he came along. It's like suggesting Scotland are doing great at Tennis because of Andy Murray. Once Bale is gone they will be back to square one.

The point I'm making is that almost all Scottish football players, coaches and admin staff come from one socio-economic group..if that pool of players, coaches and admin staff included other socio-economic groups (who are generally educated to a higher standard and have access to a higher income and more lucrative funding streams) then Scottish football would be better for it. That doesn't happen because Rugby takes footballs place for privately educated sportsman. That's not the case in places like Holland, Germany and Switzerland. I'm not actually suggesting we should ban rugby, I'm saying that if it wasn't for Rugby we would be in a far better place.

Scottish footballers don't generally mix with anyone who has been to University, their outlooks tend to be fairly insular and they often struggle to maintain a professional lifestyle when they"make it". They seem to generally prefer to stay in Scotland "with their mates" rather than test themselves and improve themselves by going abroad and developing their careers. They are intimidated by the need to learn a foreign language and adapt to a different culture. To be fair this is true across most of British football. The Chelsea players used to call Pat Nevin "the Professor" because he read the Guardian rather than the sun and the mirror ! I'm delighted to see a smart young guy like Liam Henderson playing out Italy, it can only be a good thing for Scottish football in general.

In my experience, Grass roots football is plagued by aggressive coaches and the antics of parents on the sidelines that wouldn't be tolerated at Junior Rugby 7's games. Just look at the video of Hibs juniors being booed by the crowd that was circulated this week.

Mine too. My younger son played both football and rugby, the differences are stark - particularly attitude to the refs. My laddie called a football ref "sir" once out of force of habit. The ref looked at him like he was from another planet and his own team fell about laughing.

[EH54]

I think the attitude in this country has a lot to do with our failures on the international stage. Too much of a spoilt wee boy attitude. 'This manager isn't good enough' 'SFA are clueless' I get all that to a point but surely when you get asked to pull on the jersey, if fit and available then you do just that and wear it with pride. Think we make our own excuses and are beat before a ball is kicked a lot of the time. We need to have a siege mentality.

[worcesterhibby]

I agree with much of this and think you raise some points well worth discussion. I’m not buying into the idea that our football would be in a better place without rugby though.



I guess I'm saying that if Rugby didn't exist and private schools had been playing football as their main sport for the last 100 years, I suspect our football infrastructure, culture and success as a nation might be different. Rather than suggesting that if Rugby disappeared football would suddenly be better off.

[Keith_M]

cot and witzer?

[Wilson]

Single malt whisky versus Absinthe.

[superfurryhibby]

I guess I'm saying that if Rugby didn't exist and private schools had been playing football as their main sport for the last 100 years, I suspect our football infrastructure, culture and success as a nation might be different. Rather than suggesting that if Rugby disappeared football would suddenly be better off.

Fair enough.

For me it’s the barriers to participation for people who just don’t buy into football culture. Bampot coaches, unruly parents on the touchline, poor standards of sportsmanship and the cheating, win at all costs mentality at all levels of the game.

It stopped me immersing my two youngest in the game and I’m a passionate football supporter.

[worcesterhibby]

Fair enough.

For me it’s the barriers to participation for people who just don’t buy into football culture. Bampot coaches, unruly parents on the touchline, poor standards of sportsmanship and the cheating, win at all costs mentality at all levels of the game.

It stopped me immersing my two youngest in the game and I’m a passionate football supporter.

Yup I would agree. 20 purpose built indoor facilities, run by professionals who have sports science based degrees aimed at providing a safe, enjoyable place for Scottish kids of all backgrounds to learn to play the game with a skill based culture and 15 years down the line we would be competing.

Quite how we could ever fund that, is another matter. Maybe if we switched about 1% of the £48billion we spend on defence each year, we could get it all sorted by 2020 ! I know where my priorities would lie ! #ballsnotbombs

[houstonhibbee]

witzercot

[Scouse Hibee]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0

So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million


Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896



So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?

Not sure how you can say they have over performed for a decade and a half! They are performing consistently at a level they have reached.

[Keith_M]

Single malt whisky versus Absinthe.


William Tell v Jocky Wilson

Barbegazzi (a gnome like creature wi big feet) v Loch Ness Monster

Kindlifresser (child eater of Bern) v Alex Salmond.

[chrisski33]

Gordon Strachan would say its down to genetics. Personnally we as a nation probably think we are better than we are.

[Keith_M]

We do actually have some things in common.

Tynecastle : W-ankdorf Stadium

[SlickShoes]

Their domestic league is pretty poor. I currently live in Switzerland and outwith FC Basel and Bern, the standard in general is dismal. Outwith those two everyone else is fighting to avoid relegation. Grasshoppers aren't a big side, I saw them play Lausanne last year while we had Kamberi on loan and I couldn't believe they let him go.

Most of the teams are bank rolled by massively rich companies or individuals though, so they can pay higher wages than we can easily.

Sport is part of life here, everyone is always doing something even if it's just running or hill walking. It's culturally active and Scotland sadly is the exact opposite of that now, at least from my experience.

They also have a fairly diverse national team, it's not just all white native Swiss people.

[ekhibee]

Sure xhaka is Swiss. Think his brother opted to play for Albania even though he is also Swiss.

You’re right about Shaqiri though although I believe has possibly from Kosovo?
You're right, Shaquiri is of Kosovan descent. So is Kamberi.

[ekhibee]

Kamberi is also of Albanian heritage. I really think mass immigration / being a haven for asylum seekers from the former Yugoslavia has helped them massively.
Albania was never part of Yugoslavia, it was separate and practiced a kind of Maoist communism that alienated it from virtually every other country in Europe, including the then Soviet Union. But I totally agree that Switzerland has definitely benefitted from the influx of immigrants, no doubt about that at all.

[The_Horde]

Not quite the same. We signed Kamberi from Grasshoppers (one of their bigger clubs) and Murray from Dundee Utd. The Scottish equivalent to Kamberi would be someone like Michael O'Halloran.

Michael O'Halloran is a bad example but I get your point.

[easty]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0

So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?

8.4m and 5.4m isn’t really a similar population. They’ve got more than 50% more people than us.

[worcesterhibby]

8.4m and 5.4m isn’t really a similar population. They’ve got more than 50% more people than us.

That's absolutely true, however I was categorizing European nations into three groups in my head:

(20million plus)Big: Spain 46million, England 54million, France 67million, Germany 82million, Italy 60million, Poland 37million

(10-20million) Medium: Netherland 17million, Portugal 10million, Belgium 11million, Greece 11million sweden 10million

(5- 9.9million) Small: Scotland 5.4million, Norway 5million, Denmark 5million, Finland 5million, Switzerland 8.4million, etc etc

In relative terms compared to the big European nations we are similar. It's obvious why Spain, Germany, Italy, France and England should almost always be amongst the top teams in Europe they all have 10 times our population or more. switzerland isn't anything like as big a jump.

But I take your point it is valid..however they haven't qualified for 50% more tournaments than us in the last 20 years they have qualified for 7 and we have qualified for none.

Let's just hope Scotland can build on the positivity surrounding our promotion and kick on and do well in the proper Euro qualifiers !

[Sammy7nil]

So Switzerland had qualified for the Elite European Semi final thing, by coming back from 2-0 down to beat Belgium 5-2. They are an international side who have over-performed consistently for the last decade and a half. Since 2004 they have qualified for every world cup and have only missed one Euros. That's 7 tournaments to Scotland's 0

So how do they compare as a country ?

Population:
Swiss 8.4million
Scots 5.4million

Home Football TV Deal:
Swiss 25million
Scots 19million

Average attendance at top domestic league games
Swiss 11,181
Scots 15,896

So population wise we are similar, TV deal wise we are similar and attendance wise at football games we are ahead.

If Switzerland can do it, surely Scotland can too ? What are the swiss doing that Scotland is not doing ?

The difference is the same as when we had Souness / King Kenny or Collins and Goram it is just their turn

[superfurryhibby]

The difference is the same as when we had Souness / King Kenny or Collins and Goram it is just their turn

Scotland have never had their level of consistency of qualification. I seem to remember that our first ever Euro group stage was under Roxburgh in 1992. We did do well in qualifying for World Cups from 74- 90 and thenagain in 98. Played in two European Championships ever.

It’s not just a cyclical thing. Our game is rotten to the core.

[Since90+2]

I think Croatia and Uruguay have busted the myth that football success is down to your population.

[Keith_M]

I think Croatia and Uruguay have busted the myth that football success is down to your population.


Craig Levein would make an ideal Uruguay Manager. They definitely have the same approach to Football.

[Since90+2]

Craig Levein would make an ideal Uruguay Manager. They definitely have the same approach to Football.

Think your giving Levein abit too much credit there. Uruguay are definitely physical but they are also terrific defensively, have a phenomenal workrate, great team cohesion and world class strikers.

Not bad for a country with a population a few million less than Scotland.

[Michael]

Craig Levein would make an ideal Uruguay Manager. They definitely have the same approach to Football.

If Craig Levein had Cavani he'd have done better for Scotland.

[Bostonhibby]

If Craig Levein had Cavani he'd have done better for Scotland.Agreed, with a bit of work Cavani would make an excellent 4th centre half in a 6-4-0 outfield formation.

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[MWHIBBIES]

Craig Levein would make an ideal Uruguay Manager. They definitely have the same approach to Football.30 years ago maybe. Uruguay are an excellent side now with some of the best players in the world.

[superfurryhibby]

30 years ago maybe. Uruguay are an excellent side now with some of the best players in the world.

They are indeed but their gamesmanship and cheating is rank rotten.

[MWHIBBIES]

They are indeed but their gamesmanship and cheating is rank rotten.No different from anyone else these days. Spain, Brazil, Portugal, Chile and Italy can all be just as bad.

[superfurryhibby]

No different from anyone else these days. Spain, Brazil, Portugal, Chile and Italy can all be just as bad.

Debatable, but it’s not a competition. Uruguay pissed me off more than anyone else at the World Cup, that’s all.

[Wilson]

Debatable, but it’s not a competition. Uruguay pissed me off more than anyone else at the World Cup, that’s all.

I think it is more annoying when such talented teams go in for it. If it is a low ranked nation of giant buddies then fair enough - that is all they have in their locker.

[superfurryhibby]

I think it is more annoying when such talented teams go in for it. If it is a low ranked nation of giant buddies then fair enough - that is all they have in their locker.

Exactly, a national side full of huge St Mirren players would have no other option:wink:

I agree, there is very little dignity left in the higher echelons of football. There always been nonsense, dirty tackles etc, but the gamesmanship is on another level in the modern era.

Suarez is a prime example. Magnificent striker, total prick.

[Since90+2]

Exactly, a national side full of huge St Mirren players would have no other option:wink:

I agree, there is very little dignity left in the higher echelons of football. There always been nonsense, dirty tackles etc, but the gamesmanship is on another level in the modern era.

Suarez is a prime example. Magnificent striker, total prick.

Is it really any worse in the modern era or is it just simply highlighted more due to 24/7 football coverage,more cameras , VAR and social media? Certainly from some videos I've seen of football from past decades I'd say that there was definitely more dangerous and dirty tackles flying around.

[Keith_M]

30 years ago maybe. Uruguay are an excellent side now with some of the best players in the world.


They're not the only ones but they have a very long history of ****my style of playing... from Mexico '86 to Luis Suarez and his oversize teeth.

[Hibeesmad]

Switzerland team that beat Belgium the other day consisted players from:

Borussia Mochengladbach x2
Liverpool
Arsenal
Fiorentina
AC Milan
Atalanta
Hoffenheim
Benfica
Young Boys
Norwich

The Scotland team that beat Israel last night consisted of players from:

Rangers
Cardiff City
Celtic x3
Sheffield Wednesday
Aberdeen
Southampton
Bournemouth
Liverpool
Hamburg

I think that explains a lot about the quality of player produced by each nation

[One Day Soon]

Craig Levein would make an ideal Uruguay Manager. They definitely have the same approach to Football.

They'd be unbeatable, but perhaps not unprosecutable.

[GreenLake]

They put bars into vaults whereas we vault into bars.