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Ozyhibby
14-11-2018, 11:40 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/46208944?__twitter_impression=true




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superfurryhibby
14-11-2018, 11:44 AM
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/annual-report-financial-statements

Here they are, hot off the press.

Hibs4185
14-11-2018, 11:47 AM
By the looks of it on kickback they’ve had a £2 million gift from a benefactor towards the stand and a £1 million gift towards playing budget.

£1 million down the drain on absolute drivel and £2 million down the drain on piss poor project management.

The loan facility of £1.75 million was fully drawn down and as many speculated it was Budge herself that provided it at a market rate of interest.

Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if these mysterious benefactors were also Budge and FOH will be paying her back for 6-7 years.

Easier to con the gullibles to keep up their DD’s when all is said and done rather than tell them their club is losing money.

Hibernia&Alba
14-11-2018, 11:52 AM
CWG, where are you? Time to get to work. :greengrin

Moulin Yarns
14-11-2018, 11:54 AM
Doesn't include the players brought in this summer, that will put a wee dent in the figures.

Lago
14-11-2018, 12:15 PM
Doesn't include the players brought in this summer, that will put a wee dent in the figures.
Maybe so, but doing ok.

Wembley67
14-11-2018, 12:21 PM
The yearly Hibs fans pissing themselves thread...us much as I hate to say it they are no lonfer mugs under her stewardship.

Springbank
14-11-2018, 12:26 PM
The yearly Hibs fans pissing themselves thread...us much as I hate to say it they are no lonfer mugs under her stewardship.

Confident words, but I wouldn't speak too soon.

A headline of £1.8m profit that includes a £1.7m loan being drawn down and player sales of circa £400k.

Reports of the death of Yamonomics may be greatly exaggerated I fear...

El Gubbz
14-11-2018, 12:29 PM
A few things stood out to me:

Their cash balance is 200k - £4m less than Hibs'
Their staff costs are £7m - £1.7m more than Hibs
Their revenue is £12m - £2.4m more than hibs but £1.4m is from foundation donations (we really need to up our game here) and they also received another "exceptional" donation of £2m towards the Tynecastle Redevelopment Fund

Obviously there's a hint of bias through my green tinted 20/20 vision but things are NOWHERE near as rosy as they are being reported.

cabbageandribs1875
14-11-2018, 12:29 PM
By the looks of it on kickback they’ve had a £2 million gift from a benefactor towards the stand and a £1 million gift towards playing budget.

£1 million down the drain on absolute drivel and £2 million down the drain on piss poor project management.

The loan facility of £1.75 million was fully drawn down and as many speculated it was Budge herself that provided it at a market rate of interest.

Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if these mysterious benefactors were also Budge and FOH will be paying her back for 6-7 years.

Easier to con the gullibles to keep up their DD’s when all is said and done rather than tell them their club is losing money.



:agree: my thoughts all along :)

Carheenlea
14-11-2018, 12:32 PM
Once Budge’s coffers run dry I’m sure they’ll find someone else willing to prop them up for a few years. They always seem to do.

Bostonhibby
14-11-2018, 12:35 PM
:agree: my thoughts all along :)Someone will be along in a minute to explain how this funding method is light years ahead of our own and what an outstanding result it is as a result of superb financial management of all that cash flow.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

overdrive
14-11-2018, 12:38 PM
Confident words, but I wouldn't speak too soon.

A headline of £1.8m profit that includes a £1.7m loan being drawn down and player sales of circa £400k.

Reports of the death of Yamonomics may be greatly exaggerated I fear...

The £1.7m loan won't make up any part of the £1.8m profit. It is included in the balance sheet, not the P&L.

superfurryhibby
14-11-2018, 12:41 PM
How much mortgage do they have? That’s what I would like to know.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 12:51 PM
Okay, a few thoughts before I have my lunch:greengrin

The profit is struck before donations of £1m towards player costs, and £2m towards the stadium costs. In other words, in trading terms, it's probably a loss of £1.2m.

That loss is after making £400k on the sales of Walker and Goncalves.

The stadium is capitalised at £17.7m at the year-end ie the end of June. That doesn't support AB's statement this week that the final cost will be £18m.

They may have cash-flow issues. Current liabilities were up from £135k last year to £7.8m this year.

However, that will be offset by donations of £3.25m so far this season. They also mention player sales this season.... canny think of who, but someone will know....

To the Budge:-

It is her (presumably personally) who has provided the £1.75m loan facility, of which £1.7m has been drawn down. This is being provided at market rates, and she charged an arrangement fee of £11k. It's repayable in 2 years.

Bidco (her company) also provided a further loan, interest-free, of £170k.

The original loan of £2.4m is now at £2.2m, and the interest-holiday has now ended. Bidco charged them an arrangement fee of £22k during the year... not sure why. :greengrin


FOH now has 35% of the voting rights of the shares owned by Bidco. It is also expected to continue to contribute £120k per month.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 01:06 PM
How much mortgage do they have? That’s what I would like to know.

They don't have a "mortgage" in the traditional sense.

They have a total of £4m ish due to Budge/Bidco. That's unsecured, as far as I can see.

FOH, though, have security over the stadium.

Since90+2
14-11-2018, 01:10 PM
Okay, a few thoughts before I have my lunch:greengrin

The profit is struck before donations of £1m towards player costs, and £2m towards the stadium costs. In other words, in trading terms, it's probably a loss of £1.2m.

That loss is after making £400k on the sales of Walker and Goncalves.

The stadium is capitalised at £17.7m at the year-end ie the end of June. That doesn't support AB's statement this week that the final cost will be £18m.

They may have cash-flow issues. Current liabilities were up from £135k last year to £7.8m this year.

However, that will be offset by donations of £3.25m so far this season. They also mention player sales this season.... canny think of who, but someone will know....

To the Budge:-

It is her (presumably personally) who has provided the £1.75m loan facility, of which £1.7m has been drawn down. This is being provided at market rates, and she charged an arrangement fee of £11k. it's repayable in 2 years.

Bidco (her company) also provided a further loan, interest-free, of £170k.

The original loan of £2.4m is now at £2.2m, and the interest-holiday has now ended. Bidco charged them an arrangment fee of £22k during the year... not sure why. :greengrin


FOH now has 35% of the voting rights of the shares owned by Bidco. It is also expected to continue to contribute £120k per month.

For us simpletons who is in a better financial position Hibs or Hearts? Not sure if that can be answered in such a black and white manner though.

Caversham Green
14-11-2018, 01:11 PM
On a quick look:

Their 1.8m profit is after £3m worth of donations - that turns it into a £1.2m loss. However £1m of those donations was towards staff costs (Naismith/Lafferty?) so arguably they wouldn't have spent it if they hadn't had the donation - that would make them just about break even.

The cost of the stand is shown as £18.26m which means that that amount was already 'spent' by 30 June - the recent revelations are old news.

Something that would alarm me if I was of the pink persuasion is the cash balance of £199k. This is presumably after a large proportion of the STs had been sold and ST money is normally needed for the full season - what are they going to do for cash later on in the season? Deferred income, which generally relates to ST sales is £4.8m but there may be something else in there.

It looks like £170k of the £175k facility has already been drawn - that matches with the full £18m for the stand being in the accounts.

Edit: I see yon other guy has beaten me to it.

They spent £319k on new players. I would assume that most if not all of that was at the beginning of last season given the timing of the transfer window opening.

The bottom line of the balance sheet is a positive £14.7m, but that is inflated by the cost of the stand being included in a fixed asset total of £26.7m meaning a negative 'current' balance sheet of £12m. Again, something that would rather concern me.

I think it's all distorted somewhat by the ongoing stand fiasco but I think there is some cause for concern over in Gorgie. They're either going to have to continue to rely on these benefactors or tighten their belts considerably.

Johnny_Leith
14-11-2018, 01:13 PM
:agree: my thoughts all along :)

It's not Anne Budge.

cabbageandribs1875
14-11-2018, 01:24 PM
It's not Anne Budge.


ok, that's convinced me it's not

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 01:26 PM
ok, that's convinced me it's not

If it were her, or a company related to her, it would have to be disclosed in the accounts.

Since the accounts, though, there have been a further £3.25m donations. We won't know whether that is AB until this time next year.

Hibernia&Alba
14-11-2018, 01:36 PM
Okay, a few thoughts before I have my lunch:greengrin

The profit is struck before donations of £1m towards player costs, and £2m towards the stadium costs. In other words, in trading terms, it's probably a loss of £1.2m.

That loss is after making £400k on the sales of Walker and Goncalves.

The stadium is capitalised at £17.7m at the year-end ie the end of June. That doesn't support AB's statement this week that the final cost will be £18m.

They may have cash-flow issues. Current liabilities were up from £135k last year to £7.8m this year.

However, that will be offset by donations of £3.25m so far this season. They also mention player sales this season.... canny think of who, but someone will know....

To the Budge:-

It is her (presumably personally) who has provided the £1.75m loan facility, of which £1.7m has been drawn down. This is being provided at market rates, and she charged an arrangement fee of £11k. It's repayable in 2 years.

Bidco (her company) also provided a further loan, interest-free, of £170k.

The original loan of £2.4m is now at £2.2m, and the interest-holiday has now ended. Bidco charged them an arrangement fee of £22k during the year... not sure why. :greengrin


FOH now has 35% of the voting rights of the shares owned by Bidco. It is also expected to continue to contribute £120k per month.

First bit strikes me as a huge increase. What are the current liabilities?

Second bit, how are FOH raising £120,000 per month? That sounds a lot.

Kato
14-11-2018, 01:37 PM
The cost of the stand is shown as £18.26m which means that that amount was already 'spent' by 30 June - the recent revelations are old news.

They've coughed up £18.26M already? If so the cost of actually finishing it off is going to be huge.

cabbageandribs1875
14-11-2018, 01:38 PM
If it were her, or a company related to her, it would have to be disclosed in the accounts.

Since the accounts, though, there have been a further £3.25m donations. We won't know whether that is AB until this time next year.


it will be :agree: now away finish yer lunch and this time come back with different answers :greengrin

Alan62
14-11-2018, 01:45 PM
Second bit, how are FOH raising £120,000 per month? That sounds a lot.

The boy'll no' be getting a bike for Christmas again this year. Washing machine will have to keep spinning just a little bit longer. Auld Jimmy will just have to settle for the pine cask, it's what he would have wanted. There's nowt wrong wi' Cleethorpes - thon Spain's over-rated. Rovers are fabulous machines, there's a few thousand miles in the old jalopy yet. And as for that cardigan, well the wife can aye sew on a wee elbow patch. Now, how do I increase my donation so that we can sign wee Stevie on a permanent deal?

Pagan Hibernia
14-11-2018, 01:50 PM
Second bit, how are FOH raising £120,000 per month? That sounds a lot.

It is a lot, and it is accurate. 8000 fans chipping in 15 quid a month (on average) and bingo.

Fair play to them, they answered the call magnificently on that one.

Billy Whizz
14-11-2018, 01:51 PM
Okay, a few thoughts before I have my lunch:greengrin

The profit is struck before donations of £1m towards player costs, and £2m towards the stadium costs. In other words, in trading terms, it's probably a loss of £1.2m.

That loss is after making £400k on the sales of Walker and Goncalves.

The stadium is capitalised at £17.7m at the year-end ie the end of June. That doesn't support AB's statement this week that the final cost will be £18m.

They may have cash-flow issues. Current liabilities were up from £135k last year to £7.8m this year.

However, that will be offset by donations of £3.25m so far this season. They also mention player sales this season.... canny think of who, but someone will know....

To the Budge:-

It is her (presumably personally) who has provided the £1.75m loan facility, of which £1.7m has been drawn down. This is being provided at market rates, and she charged an arrangement fee of £11k. It's repayable in 2 years.

Bidco (her company) also provided a further loan, interest-free, of £170k.

The original loan of £2.4m is now at £2.2m, and the interest-holiday has now ended. Bidco charged them an arrangement fee of £22k during the year... not sure why. :greengrin


FOH now has 35% of the voting rights of the shares owned by Bidco. It is also expected to continue to contribute £120k per month.

Sold Lafferty

hibeerealist
14-11-2018, 01:58 PM
Okay, a few thoughts before I have my lunch:greengrin

The profit is struck before donations of £1m towards player costs, and £2m towards the stadium costs. In other words, in trading terms, it's probably a loss of £1.2m.

That loss is after making £400k on the sales of Walker and Goncalves.

The stadium is capitalised at £17.7m at the year-end ie the end of June. That doesn't support AB's statement this week that the final cost will be £18m.

They may have cash-flow issues. Current liabilities were up from £135k last year to £7.8m this year.

However, that will be offset by donations of £3.25m so far this season. They also mention player sales this season.... canny think of who, but someone will know....

To the Budge:-

It is her (presumably personally) who has provided the £1.75m loan facility, of which £1.7m has been drawn down. This is being provided at market rates, and she charged an arrangement fee of £11k. It's repayable in 2 years.

Bidco (her company) also provided a further loan, interest-free, of £170k.

The original loan of £2.4m is now at £2.2m, and the interest-holiday has now ended. Bidco charged them an arrangement fee of £22k during the year... not sure why. :greengrin


FOH now has 35% of the voting rights of the shares owned by Bidco. It is also expected to continue to contribute £120k per month.

This season? Laught at me only one I can think of

Hibernia&Alba
14-11-2018, 02:00 PM
The boy'll no' be getting a bike for Christmas again this year. Washing machine will have to keep spinning just a little bit longer. Auld Jimmy will just have to settle for the pine cask, it's what he would have wanted. There's nowt wrong wi' Cleethorpes - thon Spain's over-rated. Rovers are fabulous machines, there's a few thousand miles in the old jalopy yet. And as for that cardigan, well the wife can aye sew on a wee elbow patch. Now, how do I increase my donation so that we can sign wee Stevie on a permanent deal?

:hilarious

:top marks


It is a lot, and it is accurate. 8000 fans chipping in 15 quid a month (on average) and bingo.

Fair play to them, they answered the call magnificently on that one.

Yes, it's impressive. Credit where it's due.

broondog
14-11-2018, 02:03 PM
It is a lot, and it is accurate. 8000 fans chipping in 15 quid a month (on average) and bingo.

Fair play to them, they answered the call magnificently on that one.

First off al not fiarplay to them, they have cheated for years ripping off charities and small businesses without any of their fans batting an eyelid and no repurcussions. they got away with murder literally when they came out the other end unscathed - the luckiest, dirtiest club in the world bar none.

these are the same ****bags that go about edinburgh like they doing ther bit for the community spouting off like they are a proud and successful club - bollocks. if you want to give them credit after everything that´s happened you´re as well not supporting hibs, youre on the wrong forum and suporting the wrong team.

the other thing I highly doubt are the figures. first of all where is this mystery money coming from?i really think something fishy is going on and I started trying to get to the bottom of it sometime ago but haven´t been able to get definitive answers. I think more on here need to make an effort to try and uncover the dodgy dealings that are clearly happening behind the scenes at Hearts. they have cheated many times before and I really think they are trying to give themselves an unfair advantage. can you imagine how far ahead we would be with a level playing field? we have dominated them for the past 4 or 5 years with no advantages, no help from the SFA, SRU or corrupt millionaire donations.

starting to get quite sick of it also highly doubt they have 8000 people paying 15 pounds each every month in the same way that they didn´t have 400,000 fans at the parade the last time they won the cup. don´t take anything coming out of Tynecatle at face value.

Tynie01011973
14-11-2018, 02:06 PM
Sold Lafferty

Accounts are to 30 June 2018,so Lafferty sale will not be included till next year

Ronniekirk
14-11-2018, 02:07 PM
It is a lot, and it is accurate. 8000 fans chipping in 15 quid a month (on average) and bingo.

Fair play to them, they answered the call magnificently on that one.

Why is. IBingo putting money into Hibs and Hearts 😎

Jack
14-11-2018, 02:07 PM
Can someone who knows what they're doing do a Hibs, hearts comparison of the more meaningful figures?

In hate TIA but thanks in advance :-)

Rocky
14-11-2018, 02:12 PM
Could the difference in cash balance be related to Zebra finance terms? If I understand correctly with Hibs arrangement, Zebra hand over the full whack to Hibs up front, then collect DDs from supporters through the year. Perhaps with hearts financial history they're not prepared to do that, and hand over a monthly sum instead after collections have been made?

Smartie
14-11-2018, 02:13 PM
The boy'll no' be getting a bike for Christmas again this year. Washing machine will have to keep spinning just a little bit longer. Auld Jimmy will just have to settle for the pine cask, it's what he would have wanted. There's nowt wrong wi' Cleethorpes - thon Spain's over-rated. Rovers are fabulous machines, there's a few thousand miles in the old jalopy yet. And as for that cardigan, well the wife can aye sew on a wee elbow patch. Now, how do I increase my donation so that we can sign wee Stevie on a permanent deal?

Pish doesn't show on maroon cords, as the well-known phrase goes.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 02:13 PM
First bit strikes me as a huge increase. What are the current liabilities?

Second bit, how are FOH raising £120,000 per month? That sounds a lot.

Sorry, slightly misled you there.

"net" current liabilities are up by that amount.

Most of that increase is due, as CG has said, to the drop in cash of almost £5.5m. And then there's the £170k loan.

And, they don't seem to be paying their bills as quickly as before.... a 33% increase in unpaid bills ...:rolleyes:

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 02:17 PM
Accounts are to 30 June 2018,so Lafferty sale will not be included till next year

Yep, but BW was answering my question about who they sold this season. That money will help ease their apparent cash shortage.

Moulin Yarns
14-11-2018, 02:19 PM
Yep, but BW was answering my question about who they sold this season. That money will help ease their apparent cash shortage.

That will depend on the terms of the deal though. Dead club v imitation dead club would be quite interesting to see who got the best deal on payment terms. :wink:

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 02:20 PM
First off al not fiarplay to them, they have cheated for years ripping off charities and small businesses without any of their fans batting an eyelid and no repurcussions. they got away with murder literally when they came out the other end unscathed - the luckiest, dirtiest club in the world bar none.

these are the same ****bags that go about edinburgh like they doing ther bit for the community spouting off like they are a proud and successful club - bollocks. if you want to give them credit after everything that´s happened you´re as well not supporting hibs, youre on the wrong forum and suporting the wrong team.

the other thing I highly doubt are the figures. first of all where is this mystery money coming from?i really think something fishy is going on and I started trying to get to the bottom of it sometime ago but haven´t been able to get definitive answers. I think more on here need to make an effort to try and uncover the dodgy dealings that are clearly happening behind the scenes at Hearts. they have cheated many times before and I really think they are trying to give themselves an unfair advantage. can you imagine how far ahead we would be with a level playing field? we have dominated them for the past 4 or 5 years with no advantages, no help from the SFA, SRU or corrupt millionaire donations.

starting to get quite sick of it also highly doubt they have 8000 people paying 15 pounds each every month in the same way that they didn´t have 400,000 fans at the parade the last time they won the cup. don´t take anything coming out of Tynecatle at face value.

So, what you're saying is that the auditors are either incompetent, or are complicit in these "dodgy dealings that are clearly happening behind the scenes at Hearts."

By the way, who did they literally murder? :confused:

Hibernia&Alba
14-11-2018, 02:21 PM
Sorry, slightly misled you there.

"net" current liabilities are up by that amount.

Most of that increase is due, as CG has said, to the drop in cash of almost £5.5m. And then there's the £170k loan.

And, they don't seem top be paying their bills as quickly as before.... a 33% increase in unpaid bills ...:rolleyes:

Okay mate, thanks to yourself and Caversham Green for the customary good information for those of us who don't know a balance sheet from a hymn sheet.

Hibernia&Alba
14-11-2018, 02:24 PM
First off al not fiarplay to them, they have cheated for years ripping off charities and small businesses without any of their fans batting an eyelid and no repurcussions. they got away with murder literally when they came out the other end unscathed - the luckiest, dirtiest club in the world bar none.

these are the same ****bags that go about edinburgh like they doing ther bit for the community spouting off like they are a proud and successful club - bollocks. if you want to give them credit after everything that´s happened you´re as well not supporting hibs, youre on the wrong forum and suporting the wrong team.

the other thing I highly doubt are the figures. first of all where is this mystery money coming from?i really think something fishy is going on and I started trying to get to the bottom of it sometime ago but haven´t been able to get definitive answers. I think more on here need to make an effort to try and uncover the dodgy dealings that are clearly happening behind the scenes at Hearts. they have cheated many times before and I really think they are trying to give themselves an unfair advantage. can you imagine how far ahead we would be with a level playing field? we have dominated them for the past 4 or 5 years with no advantages, no help from the SFA, SRU or corrupt millionaire donations.

starting to get quite sick of it also highly doubt they have 8000 people paying 15 pounds each every month in the same way that they didn´t have 400,000 fans at the parade the last time they won the cup. don´t take anything coming out of Tynecatle at face value.

You're right about past dodgy dealings, but, in mitigation, it wasn't the fans who were responsible for that. As is often the case, it was the fans who had to pony up when the keek hit the fan. The Hearts support ensured the club could continue after the mismanagement and criminality of the owners.

One Day Soon
14-11-2018, 02:25 PM
The boy'll no' be getting a bike for Christmas again this year. Washing machine will have to keep spinning just a little bit longer. Auld Jimmy will just have to settle for the pine cask, it's what he would have wanted. There's nowt wrong wi' Cleethorpes - thon Spain's over-rated. Rovers are fabulous machines, there's a few thousand miles in the old jalopy yet. And as for that cardigan, well the wife can aye sew on a wee elbow patch. Now, how do I increase my donation so that we can sign wee Stevie on a permanent deal?

Classic stuff but missing an important element: "Ah'll just hae tae reduce the Ambassador Sauna visits tae every second month."

Pagan Hibernia
14-11-2018, 02:43 PM
First off al not fiarplay to them, they have cheated for years ripping off charities and small businesses without any of their fans batting an eyelid and no repurcussions. they got away with murder literally when they came out the other end unscathed - the luckiest, dirtiest club in the world bar none.

these are the same ****bags that go about edinburgh like they doing ther bit for the community spouting off like they are a proud and successful club - bollocks. if you want to give them credit after everything that´s happened you´re as well not supporting hibs, youre on the wrong forum and suporting the wrong team.

the other thing I highly doubt are the figures. first of all where is this mystery money coming from?i really think something fishy is going on and I started trying to get to the bottom of it sometime ago but haven´t been able to get definitive answers. I think more on here need to make an effort to try and uncover the dodgy dealings that are clearly happening behind the scenes at Hearts. they have cheated many times before and I really think they are trying to give themselves an unfair advantage. can you imagine how far ahead we would be with a level playing field? we have dominated them for the past 4 or 5 years with no advantages, no help from the SFA, SRU or corrupt millionaire donations.

starting to get quite sick of it also highly doubt they have 8000 people paying 15 pounds each every month in the same way that they didn´t have 400,000 fans at the parade the last time they won the cup. don´t take anything coming out of Tynecatle at face value.


I’m pretty certain I’m not supporting the wrong team, but thanks for the advice.

Of course their past behavior has been despicable in all sorts of ways. My observation that 120k coming from supporters every month is impressive is the only credit they’ll ever get from me.

cmcd
14-11-2018, 02:49 PM
I for one don't give a hoot about another club's finances.I just don't understand why anyone other than Hearts fans would want to start a thread about them .Only my opinion

MWHIBBIES
14-11-2018, 02:58 PM
Could Budge not just be lying about it being her giving them money? Recent revelations show Man City been doing it for years. Is there any reason to believe it is definitely not her?

Genuine question, not my area of expertise at all.

MWHIBBIES
14-11-2018, 02:59 PM
I for one don't give a hoot about another club's finances.I just don't understand why anyone other than Hearts fans would want to start a thread about them .Only my opinion

You care enough to open the thread and post 🤔🤔

Keith_M
14-11-2018, 03:01 PM
I think their Mystery Benefactor is Alex Salmond, the one that persuaded the Liquidators to give over the Club without paying off ANY debt. He's quite obviously using the money he receives from Russia Today... funnily enough Russia is where Romanov is now in hiding.

Not that I'm one to start any ludicrous conspiracy theories about any dodgy Russian money being laundered through the UK, via a dodgy football club, and Salmond having inside info to use as leverage for further funds............


:hmmm:

Hibernia&Alba
14-11-2018, 03:03 PM
I for one don't give a hoot about another club's finances.I just don't understand why anyone other than Hearts fans would want to start a thread about them .Only my opinion

1, Given their recent problems, it's an interesting issue.
2, As our biggest rivals, their budget is relevant to us also.

If you aren't interested, fair enough; but it seems a reasonable topic of conversation on a Hibs fan site.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 03:06 PM
Could Budge not just be lying about it being her giving them money? Recent revelations show Man City been doing it for years. Is there any reason to believe it is definitely not her?

Genuine question, not my area of expertise at all.

A few things:-

1. if it were her, IMO she would shouting it from the rooftops. She has, after all, given them loans of over £4m, so why wouldn't she proclaim her saviour status even more?

2. if it were her, she would be charging them "market rates" of interest, rather than throwing it down a vomitorium.

3. the auditors will need to see proof of where the donations came from, both from an audit perspective and a money-laundering perspective. So, to fool them, she would have to concoct some sort of plausible 3rd-party evidence to show it was "someone else". Or, she would have to bring them into her scam. But, again, to what end??

Ozyhibby
14-11-2018, 03:20 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181114/bf843b13253e176ed552916dcf1fd914.jpg

That’s a strong allegation Broondog. [emoji23]


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Ozyhibby
14-11-2018, 03:24 PM
https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1062726402208923648?s=21

More info on this twitter thread.


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CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 03:28 PM
https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1062726402208923648?s=21

More info on this twitter thread.


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He's not comparing like with like when he mentions us.

Hearts have their catering and shop operations in-house. We don't. Therefore it's wrong to just look at Turnover as a relevant measure.

Hibs4185
14-11-2018, 03:29 PM
A few things:-

1. if it were her, would she not be shouting it from the rooftops? She has, after all, given them loans of over £4m, so why wouldn't she proclaim her saviour status even more?

2. if it were her, would she not be charging them "market rates" of interest, rather than throwing it down a vomitorium?

3. the auditors will need to see proof of where the donations came from, both from an audit perspective and a money-laundering perspective. So, to fool them, she would have to concoct some sort of plausible 3rd-party evidence to show it was "someone else". Or, she would have to bring them into her scam. But, again, to what end??

CWG whilst I normally agree with you, in regards to point 1 I disagree. last year when Budge announced they had a facility of £1.75 million, she made no mention that it was herself that was providing the facility. She could have said I’ve made available £1.75 million and rather than dealing with an outside financial institution I am lending the money on market rates. Queue massive praise from the Fans.

Why would she not announce it was her and take the plaudits?

My only concern from their accounts is why we are not matching their turnover. They’ve made actual losses the last 2 years without their mysterious benefactor, and as I argued last year where was this mysterious benefactor when the club nearly died?

I am certain it is Budge. The family that own the Buccleuch estate are tight and wouldn’t fritter millions on a football club.

cmcd
14-11-2018, 03:33 PM
You care enough to open the thread and post 🤔🤔

Nope I have read first two posts only because as I have said they are of no significance to me .

Hi Heid Yin
14-11-2018, 03:42 PM
First off al not fiarplay to them, they have cheated for years ripping off charities and small businesses without any of their fans batting an eyelid and no repurcussions. they got away with murder literally when they came out the other end unscathed - the luckiest, dirtiest club in the world bar none.

these are the same ****bags that go about edinburgh like they doing ther bit for the community spouting off like they are a proud and successful club - bollocks. if you want to give them credit after everything that´s happened you´re as well not supporting hibs, youre on the wrong forum and suporting the wrong team.

the other thing I highly doubt are the figures. first of all where is this mystery money coming from?i really think something fishy is going on and I started trying to get to the bottom of it sometime ago but haven´t been able to get definitive answers. I think more on here need to make an effort to try and uncover the dodgy dealings that are clearly happening behind the scenes at Hearts. they have cheated many times before and I really think they are trying to give themselves an unfair advantage. can you imagine how far ahead we would be with a level playing field? we have dominated them for the past 4 or 5 years with no advantages, no help from the SFA, SRU or corrupt millionaire donations.

starting to get quite sick of it also highly doubt they have 8000 people paying 15 pounds each every month in the same way that they didn´t have 400,000 fans at the parade the last time they won the cup. don´t take anything coming out of Tynecatle at face value.


All these secret benefactors and the 8,000 FOH should be doing the moral thing and paying off every creditor they shafted during those corrupt years, where the debt ran to 40 plus million.
It grates that they slithered away Scot free from the huge noose around their necks, to continue as though nothing happened.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 03:45 PM
CWG whilst I normally agree with you, in regards to point 1 I disagree. last year when Budge announced they had a facility of £1.75 million, she made no mention that it was herself that was providing the facility. She could have said I’ve made available £1.75 million and rather than dealing with an outside financial institution I am lending the money on market rates. Queue massive praise from the Fans.

Why would she not announce it was her and take the plaudits?

My only concern from their accounts is why we are not matching their turnover. They’ve made actual losses the last 2 years without their mysterious benefactor, and as I argued last year where was this mysterious benefactor when the club nearly died?

I am certain it is Budge. The family that own the Buccleuch estate are tight and wouldn’t fritter millions on a football club.

1. the loan was made this year, though, hence the need to refer to it in this year's accounts. Last year, they referred to a "facility" that was made available after the year-end which hadn't been drawn down at that point.

2. on the turnover, we don't match theirs because we don't have our catering and commercial operations in-house. They do, therefore their turnover is bound to be much higher. However, so are their wages and related overheads. For example, they have 275 employees, as against our 100.

If you're certain it is her, though, I'd be keen to hear the evidence.:agree:

Hibrandenburg
14-11-2018, 03:51 PM
Nope I have read first two posts only because as I have said they are of no significance to me .

You've managed to get to page 2 now though :faf:

The 90+2
14-11-2018, 03:59 PM
Surely without donations they aren’t being ran that well at all?

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 04:01 PM
Surely without donations they aren’t being ran that well at all?

As Cav says, they probably broke even without the donations. That's okay, TBF, and is what we aspire to.

Billy Whizz
14-11-2018, 04:19 PM
Accounts are to 30 June 2018,so Lafferty sale will not be included till next year

Think Crops meant player sales this season

SirDavidsNapper
14-11-2018, 04:22 PM
So what does all this tell us? Both Hearts and Hibs doing well off the park. No seething or talking about ripped off buisnesses will change that. Roll on December so we can pump them.

where'stheslope
14-11-2018, 04:36 PM
All these secret benefactors and the 8,000 FOH should be doing the moral thing and paying off every creditor they shafted during those corrupt years, where the debt ran to 40 plus million.
It grates that they slithered away Scot free from the huge noose around their necks, to continue as though nothing happened.

Really! Was it the fans who shafted the creditors?
Much as I am with you in this, we on here are losing the plot blaming fans for their clubs demise?
They have stood up to be counted, to help get the club back on its feet and move forward!!
Its no more than we did at the time of the Mercer threat, we stood together to stop it in its tracks!

Alan62
14-11-2018, 04:43 PM
I am certain it is Budge. The family that own the Buccleuch estate are tight and wouldn’t fritter millions on a football club.

You may be certain but your certainty may be misplaced. It’s fairly well known that a number of Edinburgh based fund managers made sizeable donations of their personal cash.


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Jack Hackett
14-11-2018, 04:43 PM
What I get from all these numbers is that they are now reliant on these mystery loans and fan donations. They are back to spending more than they actually earn. Just like their big brothers in the west.

I'm beginning to see a pattern :hmmm:

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 04:58 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181114/bf843b13253e176ed552916dcf1fd914.jpg

That’s a strong allegation Broondog. [emoji23]


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Wellll, they did kill us as a club, no?

Jack Hackett
14-11-2018, 05:02 PM
Wellll, they did kill us as a club, no?

No case to answer. Wishful thinking isn't a crime

green&left
14-11-2018, 05:02 PM
The Hibs.Net obsession (verging on love-in) with them continues....

Hibs4185
14-11-2018, 05:11 PM
1. the loan was made this year, though, hence the need to refer to it in this year's accounts. Last year, they referred to a "facility" that was made available after the year-end which hadn't been drawn down at that point.

2. on the turnover, we don't match theirs because we don't have our catering and commercial operations in-house. They do, therefore their turnover is bound to be much higher. However, so are their wages and related overheads. For example, they have 275 employees, as against our 100.

If you're certain it is her, though, I'd be keen to hear the evidence.:agree:

Yes they announced the facility last year and yes it was drawn down this year.

The point I am making is why did she not announce that it was her providing the facility last year?

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
14-11-2018, 05:16 PM
Okay mate, thanks to yourself and Caversham Green for the customary good information for those of us who don't know a balance sheet from a hymn sheet.

Theres really no place for religion fitba...😁

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 05:19 PM
Yes they announced the facility last year and yes it was drawn down this year.

The point I am making is why did she not announce that it was her providing the facility last year?

As I understand the disclosure rules, as it was not actually drawn on at the time the accounts were published, there was no requirement to disclose her name in those accounts.

https://www.ifrs.org/issued-standards/list-of-standards/ias-24-related-party-disclosures/

A related party transaction is a transfer of resources, services or obligations between a reporting entity and a related party, regardless of whether a price is charged. If an entity has had related party transactions during the periods covered by the financial statements, IAS 24 requires it to disclose the nature of the related party relationship as well as information about those transactions and outstanding balances, including commitments, necessary for users to understand the potential effect of the relationship on the financial statements.

There had been no transaction at the date the accounts were published, hence no need to mention its source. Had it been drawn on at all, then yes she would have had to be named.

(And, yeah, I do realise that I have quoted IAS, when Hearts may not have adopted it. But it still reflects good practice.)

Jack Hackett
14-11-2018, 05:21 PM
The Hibs.Net obsession (verging on love-in) with them continues....

Can't quite decide if you're trolling or just a dick. The 'holier than thou' attitude is pure yam

btw... there's a 1,417 page thread about the The Rangers if you want another thread to post about obsession on

Deansy
14-11-2018, 05:49 PM
It is a lot, and it is accurate. 8000 fans chipping in 15 quid a month (on average) and bingo.

Fair play to them, they answered the call magnificently on that one.


Sorry but they're benefitting from 30+ years and a rough £100m+ of cheating - their fans had to answer their call or they had no club !. Fortunately/unfortunately Hibs being honest don't have that 'advantage' !

Their mysterious 'Benefactor(s)' ?? - where were these people, who seem to have an endless stash of cash, when they were on the verge of extinction ?. Surely it couldn't be that if they had intervened then, their 'donations' would've been wasted on the nasty busness of Hearts actually paying their debts/saving jobs & businesses/charities getting their money..................

tamig
14-11-2018, 05:58 PM
First off al not fiarplay to them, they have cheated for years ripping off charities and small businesses without any of their fans batting an eyelid and no repurcussions. they got away with murder literally when they came out the other end unscathed - the luckiest, dirtiest club in the world bar none.

these are the same ****bags that go about edinburgh like they doing ther bit for the community spouting off like they are a proud and successful club - bollocks. if you want to give them credit after everything that´s happened you´re as well not supporting hibs, youre on the wrong forum and suporting the wrong team.

the other thing I highly doubt are the figures. first of all where is this mystery money coming from?i really think something fishy is going on and I started trying to get to the bottom of it sometime ago but haven´t been able to get definitive answers. I think more on here need to make an effort to try and uncover the dodgy dealings that are clearly happening behind the scenes at Hearts. they have cheated many times before and I really think they are trying to give themselves an unfair advantage. can you imagine how far ahead we would be with a level playing field? we have dominated them for the past 4 or 5 years with no advantages, no help from the SFA, SRU or corrupt millionaire donations.

starting to get quite sick of it also highly doubt they have 8000 people paying 15 pounds each every month in the same way that they didn´t have 400,000 fans at the parade the last time they won the cup. don´t take anything coming out of Tynecatle at face value.
Their fans have backed their club extremely well - regardless of what happened beforehand. I just wish more Hibbies would start paying into HSL every month in greater numbers rather than debating reasons why they shouldn’t or won’t sign up. It would help our club massively.

The 90+2
14-11-2018, 06:00 PM
Sorry but they're benefitting from 30+ years and a rough £100m+ of cheating - their fans had to answer their call or they had no club !. Fortunately/unfortunately Hibs being honest don't have that 'advantage' !

Their mysterious 'Benefactor(s)' ?? - where were these people, who seem to have an endless stash of cash, when they were on the verge of extinction ?. Surely it couldn't be that if they had intervened then, their 'donations' would've been wasted on the nasty busness of Hearts actually paying their debts/saving jobs & businesses/charities getting their money..................

Why would they want to plough their money into saving other businesses etc that had **** all to do with them?

I wouldn’t blame them if they sat saying they wouldn’t put a penny in until Romanov buggered off and it looks like that’s what some re doing. While the normal support put over £100k pm into their club.

Are they supposed to sit there and go “sorry I’m not giving a penny because the club was bankrolled by crooks and cheats?

It’s football, they wanted to save their club, they did somehow, they want to fund it further now to be successful and grow which they have every right too. As for plaudits? I’m not sure until our support reach even nearly the amount of money they give their club for **** all every month, not sure how it deserves anything but?

The 90+2
14-11-2018, 06:01 PM
Their fans have backed their club extremely well - regardless of what happened beforehand. I just wish more Hibbies would start paying into HSL every month in greater numbers rather than debating reasons why they shouldn’t or won’t sign up. It would help our club massively.

Yep. There’s no point going “aye but they cheated before so they are still ****s” as their putting **** loads in every single month. The results are there to see.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 06:09 PM
Sorry but they're benefitting from 30+ years and a rough £100m+ of cheating - their fans had to answer their call or they had no club !. Fortunately/unfortunately Hibs being honest don't have that 'advantage' !

Their mysterious 'Benefactor(s)' ?? - where were these people, who seem to have an endless stash of cash, when they were on the verge of extinction ?. Surely it couldn't be that if they had intervened then, their 'donations' would've been wasted on the nasty busness of Hearts actually paying their debts/saving jobs & businesses/charities getting their money..................Why would they? is the short answer.

Putting their money into a black hole where the only beneficiary would have been the administrator of the secured creditor vs putting it into a club where they can see the benefit of their money.

No contest IMO.


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The 90+2
14-11-2018, 06:27 PM
Why would they? is the short answer.

Putting their money into a black hole where the only beneficiary would have been the administrator of the secured creditor vs putting it into a club where they can see the benefit of their money.

No contest IMO.


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Exactly, it’s not as if people that make that sort of money historically do so by being not being as ruthless for their best interests as possible regardless.

Hibees1973
14-11-2018, 06:28 PM
I think their Mystery Benefactor is Alex Salmond, the one that persuaded the Liquidators to give over the Club without paying off ANY debt. He's quite obviously using the money he receives from Russia Today... funnily enough Russia is where Romanov is now in hiding.

Not that I'm one to start any ludicrous conspiracy theories about any dodgy Russian money being laundered through the UK, via a dodgy football club, and Salmond having inside info to use as leverage for further funds............


:hmmm:Sure it is not Alec Salmond....think he will need all his cash for the current ‘issues’ he has.

it is no doubt that Anne Budge is the mystery benefactor.

She is propping them up with her cash and using all ways possible to flower up Hearts bottom line.

Hi Heid Yin
14-11-2018, 06:58 PM
Really! Was it the fans who shafted the creditors?
Much as I am with you in this, we on here are losing the plot blaming fans for their clubs demise?
They have stood up to be counted, to help get the club back on its feet and move forward!!
Its no more than we did at the time of the Mercer threat, we stood together to stop it in its tracks!

If the FOH are the same lot who gloried in and bragged about winning "tainted" silverware, and came out with statements such as: "Hibs are no longer our rivals!" then yes, to hell with the rights and wrongs of whether or not they are responsible for the years of financial doping. If they want their club to gain a modicum of respect again, then paying back creditors would be a good starting point - say 50% of their contributions going towards righting the wrongs of their corrupt past and the other 50% towards helping their club along.
Of course, I'm not stupid enough to believe for a second that even a single Jambo would contemplate this arrangement.

Hi Heid Yin
14-11-2018, 07:01 PM
Sorry but they're benefitting from 30+ years and a rough £100m+ of cheating - their fans had to answer their call or they had no club !. Fortunately/unfortunately Hibs being honest don't have that 'advantage' !

Their mysterious 'Benefactor(s)' ?? - where were these people, who seem to have an endless stash of cash, when they were on the verge of extinction ?. Surely it couldn't be that if they had intervened then, their 'donations' would've been wasted on the nasty busness of Hearts actually paying their debts/saving jobs & businesses/charities getting their money..................

:top marks:aok:

green day
14-11-2018, 07:02 PM
Their fans have backed their club extremely well - regardless of what happened beforehand. I just wish more Hibbies would start paying into HSL every month in greater numbers rather than debating reasons why they shouldn’t or won’t sign up. It would help our club massively.

:top marks:top marks

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 07:03 PM
Sure it is not Alec Salmond....think he will need all his cash for the current ‘issues’ he has.

it is no doubt that Anne Budge is the mystery benefactor.

She is propping them up with her cash and using all ways possible to flower up Hearts bottom line.

Your evidence being?

Genuine question, as they say.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 07:05 PM
f the FOH are thIe same lot who gloried in and bragged about winning "tainted" silverware, and came out with statements such as: "Hibs are no longer our rivals!" then yes, they to hell with the rights and wrongs of whether or not they are responsible for the years of financial doping. If they want their club to gain a modicum of respect again, then paying back creditors would be a good starting point - say 50% of their contributions going towards righting the wrongs of their corrupt past and the other 50% towards helping their club along.
Of course, I'm not stupid enough to believe for a second that even a single Jambo would contemplate this arrangement.

They're not.:greengrin

Hi Heid Yin
14-11-2018, 07:09 PM
I for one don't give a hoot about another club's finances.I just don't understand why anyone other than Hearts fans would want to start a thread about them .Only my opinion

Errr, how about the fact that the Jambo hordes gloried in those corrupt years when their "gangster-led" club bought success on the pitch at the cost of our club - signing players they could not afford (or indeed pay) in order to get one over Hibs. The 1-5 cup final was the ultimate reward for those same Jambos - a day in infamy that they still delight in and get satisfaction from.
Their financially-doped club lorded it over our club for far too long.
Do you now see why some of we Hibbies then take more than a passing interest in their finances - especially when there are a bunch of so-called secret benefactors operating in the shadows?

Keith_M
14-11-2018, 07:29 PM
Your evidence being?

Genuine question, as they say.


Don't listen to him, it's Big Eck!


He posts on here as Son Of Haggart, and pretends to be level headed and reasonable so he can continue to spy on us. Come on, no Jambo is actually level headed and reasonable.

Famous Fiver
14-11-2018, 07:30 PM
My take on it in simple terms.

They continue to spend more than is coming in which is being covered by donations from whatever source.

This has been going on for decades now, topped up by the avoidance of meeting their liabilities in the administration event.

Not a sound sustainable business model but they have sustained it for a long, long time.

greenginger
14-11-2018, 07:41 PM
Why would they? is the short answer.

Putting their money into a black hole where the only beneficiary would have been the administrator of the secured creditor vs putting it into a club where they can see the benefit of their money.

No contest IMO.


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


I agree it would have been futile to put money in before administration.

But, why not back FoH to buy the club out of administration. No need to take control or responsibility, just provide FoH with the £ 2.5 million.

After all it was 5 to midnight for the Yams when Budge opened her purse .

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 07:52 PM
I agree it would have been futile to put money in before administration.

But, why not back FoH to buy the club out of administration. No need to take control or responsibility, just provide FoH with the £ 2.5 million.

After all it was 5 to midnight for the Yams when Budge opened her purse .

Fair point.

Maybe they just didn't have the cash at that point, though. Or the inclination. Maybe they didn't trust Budge enough, or the FOH model. There was no guarantee at that point that it was going to work. At least, now, there is a reasonable basis for expecting that the cash is going to be used "properly".

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greenginger
14-11-2018, 07:57 PM
Fair point.

Maybe they just didn't have the cash at that point, though. Or the inclination. Maybe they didn't trust Budge enough, or the FOH model. There was no guarantee at that point that it was going to work. At least, now, there is a reasonable basis for expecting that the cash is going to be used "properly".

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


Fair comment :aok:

jacomo
14-11-2018, 07:59 PM
I agree it would have been futile to put money in before administration.

But, why not back FoH to buy the club out of administration. No need to take control or responsibility, just provide FoH with the £ 2.5 million.

After all it was 5 to midnight for the Yams when Budge opened her purse .


This is the biggest question for me.

Maybe they did need someone to commit to putting up the cash first. Maybe Budge is an excellent fundraiser.

The way she tells it, folk are queuing up to put millions in, with no hope of repayment and no public acknowledgement of their generosity.

Such people exist of course, but it is extraordinary.

cmcd
14-11-2018, 08:22 PM
You've managed to get to page 2 now though :faf:

Only the posts aimed at me

Eyrie
14-11-2018, 08:29 PM
So does this mean that they are not financially bankrupt, only morally bankrupt?

Hibs Giant
14-11-2018, 09:03 PM
How come the liquidators didn't sell the stadium to pay the creditors? Never understood that.

Jack Hackett
14-11-2018, 09:08 PM
How come the liquidators didn't sell the stadium to pay the creditors? Never understood that.

Because there were never any liquidators. Hearts were in administration, and the administrators job is to secure a deal, not sell the furniture... unfortunately

The 90+2
14-11-2018, 09:17 PM
Because there were never any liquidators. Hearts were in administration, and the administrators job is to secure a deal, not sell the furniture... unfortunately

How come the huns got away with that **** too? They both should have been made to sell their assets to pay off companies they owe money to.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 09:33 PM
How come the huns got away with that **** too? They both should have been made to sell their assets to pay off companies they owe money to.Rangers were. They were never going to sell their assets for anything like the amount needed to pay off the creditors, though.

The deal that was made, which IMO was not what it should have been, is still being investigated by the liquidators.

As for Hearts, they wouldn't have raised enough to make much of a dent in the ordinary creditors.


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The 90+2
14-11-2018, 09:37 PM
Rangers were. They were never going to sell their assets for anything like the amount needed to pay off the creditors, though.

The deal that was made, which IMO was not what it should have been, is still being investigated by the liquidators.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Yeah I know they where so why didn’t they sell their stadium to give money to the creditors? How much did the new company buy the stadium for? And when it was bought by the newco did that money go to the creditors? It does stick my throat both them and hearts fans talking about what they went through when it was Jack **** in comparison to the companies and people that lost jobs and lots and lots of money.

CropleyWasGod
14-11-2018, 09:40 PM
Yeah I know they where so why didn’t they sell their stadium to give money to the creditors? How much did the new company buy the stadium for? And when it was bought by the newco did that money go to the creditors? It does stick my throat both them and hearts fans talking about what they went through when it was Jack **** in comparison to the companies and people that lost jobs and lots and lots of money.

The Rangers liquidation is ongoing. We're still some way from knowing how much the creditors will get.

The stadium and assets were sold for £5.5m by the administrators. The liquidators are suing the administrators for £28.9m, on the grounds that the sale was undervalued.

Total debts were over £130m.

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The 90+2
14-11-2018, 10:15 PM
The Rangers liquidation is ongoing. We're still some way from knowing how much the creditors will get.

The stadium and assets were sold for £5.5m by the administrators. The liquidators are suing the administrators for £28.9m, on the grounds that the sale was undervalued.

Total debts were over £130m.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

How on earth did they get away with that as the value? On the basis it’s in the middle of undesirable place to stay? If hearts got liquidated or could the likes of a home builders come in and offer more than the 40p they would have got for their *****house? Thanks for replying by the way

Mibbes Aye
14-11-2018, 10:50 PM
How on earth did they get away with that as the value? On the basis it’s in the middle of undesirable place to stay? If hearts got liquidated or could the likes of a home builders come in and offer more than the 40p they would have got for their *****house? Thanks for replying by the way

Had the pleasure of driving along Broomloan Road and the environs a couple of times recently and while there's a fair bit of what could best be described as 'brownfield' there also seems to be plenty signage suggesting lots of housing development is on its way.

The 90+2
14-11-2018, 11:04 PM
Had the pleasure of driving along Broomloan Road and the environs a couple of times recently and while there's a fair bit of what could best be described as 'brownfield' there also seems to be plenty signage suggesting lots of housing development is on its way.

It’s robbery if that’s the case then. Surely the council will have something to say?

Criswell
15-11-2018, 12:03 AM
They might glory in their "5-1" but we have never scuttled into a shameful administration deceit and welched on millions of debt.

Hi Heid Yin
15-11-2018, 12:35 AM
They might glory in their "5-1" but we have never scuttled into a shameful administration deceit and welched on millions of debt.

:top marks

FilipinoHibs
15-11-2018, 02:29 AM
Could Budge not just be lying about it being her giving them money? Recent revelations show Man City been doing it for years. Is there any reason to believe it is definitely not her?

Genuine question, not my area of expertise at all.

Cant see where else these round millions have come from and why they are just appearing now and not when they needed rescued. But overall their finances are in a an utter mess with Budge locked in for years.

FilipinoHibs
15-11-2018, 02:34 AM
How come the liquidators didn't sell the stadium to pay the creditors? Never understood that.

UKIO Bankas creditors could have pushed them into liquidation if they did not accept the CVA. But it was made clear them they would never get the planning permission to build on Tynie. The Edinburgh establishment closed ranks making Tynie effectively worthless.

cocteautwin
15-11-2018, 07:40 AM
Cant see where else these round millions have come from and why they are just appearing now and not when they needed rescued. But overall their finances are in a an utter mess with Budge locked in for years.

The current financing situation definitely needs some further delving SingHibs but I don't think it's that messy, just a bit blurred.

Not saying there's any suggestion of financial impropriety but one idea that's been twirling round my head like a camp/fey maroon and white stripe scarf is the suggested family connection to the stadium construction and the amount paid for that. If the final headline cost is coming in at £18m and more, but the real cost is, say £14m, then there's a £4m family "profit" stripped out by that method. This would priobably be most of what Budge has put in to the project, so she could then waive the loan and come out smelling of roses and a true HMFC hero, without anyone knowing they stripped out some profits by overcharging for a tinpot stadium.

Mere speculation and I don't even know if it's true that there's a Budge family connection, but it is a bit weird that they decided to take on the project themselves without a main contractor. If no-one is there to oversee the project but themselves then there's no-one there to call out any over charging for the stadium. Hmmmmm. Does it smell fishy to you?

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 07:47 AM
The current financing situation definitely needs some further delving SingHibs but I don't think it's that messy, just a bit blurred.

Not saying there's any suggestion of financial impropriety but one idea that's been twirling round my head like a camp/fey maroon and white stripe scarf is the suggested family connection to the stadium construction and the amount paid for that. If the final headline cost is coming in at £18m and more, but the real cost is, say £14m, then there's a £4m family "profit" stripped out by that method. This would priobably be most of what Budge has put in to the project, so she could then waive the loan and come out smelling of roses and a true HMFC hero, without anyone knowing they stripped out some profits by overcharging for a tinpot stadium.

Mere speculation and I don't even know if it's true that there's a Budge family connection, but it is a bit weird that they decided to take on the project themselves without a main contractor. If no-one is there to oversee the project but themselves then there's no-one there to call out any over charging for the stadium. Hmmmmm. Does it smell fishy to you?The accounts are explicit about the family connection. They also explain how issues surrounding charging are dealt with.

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TheHarpy76
15-11-2018, 07:50 AM
How come the liquidators didn't sell the stadium to pay the creditors? Never understood that.

Because they were never in liquidation.
Liquidation and administration are two completely different things.

Dancehibs
15-11-2018, 08:00 AM
They might glory in their "5-1" but we have never scuttled into a shameful administration deceit and welched on millions of debt.
Id rather we pumped them in a Scottish cup final

cocteautwin
15-11-2018, 08:07 AM
The accounts are explicit about the family connection. They also explain how issues surrounding charging are dealt with.

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Yeah, I see that. £4.8m total to the connected company (this year and last). That one line saying the Directors are satisfied the services were purchased on an arms length basis.... Hmmm.... I'll bet.

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 08:20 AM
Yeah, I see that. £4.8m total to the connected company (this year and last). That one line saying the Directors are satisfied the services were purchased on an arms length basis.... Hmmm.... I'll bet.The auditors have to be take steps to ensure that they are satisfied with that as well.

They don't just have an audit responsibility, they also have an anti- money laundering responsibility.

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cocteautwin
15-11-2018, 08:25 AM
Are Hibs financial statements for 2018 available online anywhere?

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 08:33 AM
Are Hibs financial statements for 2018 available online anywhere?Not yet. They should be on the Companies House website quite soon.

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Austinho
15-11-2018, 08:37 AM
Id rather we pumped them in a Scottish cup finalWould you rather Hibs completely squandered over £50 million and won a grand total of 2 major trophies in that time? We've managed the same since 2006 without nearly going extinct.

Tornadoes70
15-11-2018, 08:47 AM
Id rather we pumped them in a Scottish cup final

Not in the way of being financed with multi millions of a (alleged) criminal's loot, being forced into administration and relegated. The cups 'won' under romanov's reign are a stain on Hearts history. There were rumours freely circulating that romanov was crooked long before the stories of financial turbulence began to emerge.

cocteautwin
15-11-2018, 08:47 AM
Since the accounts, though, there have been a further £3.25m donations. We won't know whether that is AB until this time next year.

They've had another £3.25m from anonymous sources since 30 June? Goodness me, their whole model really doesn't stack up without donations. I've lost count of my running total after £18m since Administration.

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 08:49 AM
They've had another £3.25m from anonymous sources since 30 June? Goodness me, their whole model really doesn't stack up without donations. I've lost count of my running total after £18m since Administration.Yes. It's in the accounts.

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cocteautwin
15-11-2018, 08:57 AM
Yes. It's in the accounts.

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What's in their Trade Creditors number of £3.5m, is it payments due for stadium costs. Hibs don't have an equivalent of this high a number.

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 08:59 AM
What's in their Trade Creditors number of £3.5m, is it payments due for stadium costs. Hibs don't have an equivalent of this high a number.Don't know. I have no information other than what is in the public domain.

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cocteautwin
15-11-2018, 09:05 AM
Don't know. I have no information other than what is in the public domain.

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One thing that is in the public domain though is that they are pretty well stuffed without their donations. I guess they are doing what needs to be done to get past the stadium construction.

broondog
15-11-2018, 09:14 AM
You're right about past dodgy dealings, but, in mitigation, it wasn't the fans who were responsible for that. As is often the case, it was the fans who had to pony up when the keek hit the fan. The Hearts support ensured the club could continue after the mismanagement and criminality of the owners.

to say the Hearts fans werent responsible is just wrong.when they knew they were overspending and cheating to win cups, were they protesting against the owner and trying to stop what they knew was going on behind the scenes? answer no they weree lapping it up and gloating about it prasining Romanov.Im not saying they were 100% responsible but they played a big part in what happend and should be punished.horrible some on here want to defend them

broondog
15-11-2018, 09:19 AM
I’m pretty certain I’m not supporting the wrong team, but thanks for the advice.

Of course their past behavior has been despicable in all sorts of ways. My observation that 120k coming from supporters every month is impressive is the only credit they’ll ever get from me.

You and others who want to constantly defend them on here is embarrasing. the 120k figure I really doubt is true, seems quite a lot and it wouldn´t be the first time they falsified accounts for their own benefit.what people don´t seem to realise is they have a track record of this sort of stuff - I could list many examples. it started before romanov, continued when he was there on a scale not seen before, and still continues today.its something that is natural in the Hearts support and club it is nothing to do with who the owner is or who is running the club.

broondog
15-11-2018, 09:24 AM
Sorry but they're benefitting from 30+ years and a rough £100m+ of cheating - their fans had to answer their call or they had no club !. Fortunately/unfortunately Hibs being honest don't have that 'advantage' !

Their mysterious 'Benefactor(s)' ?? - where were these people, who seem to have an endless stash of cash, when they were on the verge of extinction ?. Surely it couldn't be that if they had intervened then, their 'donations' would've been wasted on the nasty busness of Hearts actually paying their debts/saving jobs & businesses/charities getting their money..................

completely agree.the right thing would be for a court to force the foundation of hearts contributions to repay all the debt that has been wiped clean over the last 30 years.of course that won´t happen.the Hearts establishment won´t let it happen.

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 09:26 AM
completely agree.the right thing would be for a court to force the foundation of hearts contributions to repay all the debt that has been wiped clean over the last 30 years.of course that won´t happen.the Hearts establishment won´t let it happen.You mean the law of the land won't let it happen?

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CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 11:02 AM
You and others who want to constantly defend them on here is embarrasing. the 120k figure I really doubt is true, seems quite a lot and it wouldn´t be the first time they falsified accounts for their own benefit.what people don´t seem to realise is they have a track record of this sort of stuff - I could list many examples. it started before romanov, continued when he was there on a scale not seen before, and still continues today.its something that is natural in the Hearts support and club it is nothing to do with who the owner is or who is running the club.What makes you think that the £120k a week is false?

And why would they say it was true if it wasn't?



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Dancehibs
15-11-2018, 11:04 AM
Would you rather Hibs completely squandered over £50 million and won a grand total of 2 major trophies in that time? We've managed the same since 2006 without nearly going extinct.
Yup. And were never ever going extinct.

Dancehibs
15-11-2018, 11:06 AM
Not in the way of being financed with multi millions of a (alleged) criminal's loot, being forced into administration and relegated. The cups 'won' under romanov's reign are a stain on Hearts history. There were rumours freely circulating that romanov was crooked long before the stories of financial turbulence began to emerge.
Yeah I bet the gorgie tramps think it’s a stain ... not

lyonhibs
15-11-2018, 11:16 AM
You mean the law of the land won't let it happen?

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Now now, please let hysteria reign :greengrin

Couldn't give a fig about Hearts' finances now that they, regrettably, aren't going to go pop. I'm a Hibs supporter after all.

where'stheslope
15-11-2018, 12:27 PM
You and others who want to constantly defend them on here is embarrasing. the 120k figure I really doubt is true, seems quite a lot and it wouldn´t be the first time they falsified accounts for their own benefit.what people don´t seem to realise is they have a track record of this sort of stuff - I could list many examples. it started before romanov, continued when he was there on a scale not seen before, and still continues today.its something that is natural in the Hearts support and club it is nothing to do with who the owner is or who is running the club.

Listening to CropleyWasGod tells you that any figures that are in the annual accounts will be doubly vetted by auditors and accountants, as they will not want to be party to any underhand dealings!
Much as at the time it was scandalous, now they are trying to get to a level playing field with all monies.
If anything untoward cropped up in the accounts, I feel certain they will be shouted from the rooftops and not just on here!
Most on here, just don't want them to succeed and it causes the bile to rise, and the fact their fans are doing everything they can to rectify what happened to their club!!!!

green day
15-11-2018, 12:49 PM
What makes you think that the £120k a week is false?

And why would they say it was true if it wasn't?



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A month, surely?

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 01:04 PM
One thing that is in the public domain though is that they are pretty well stuffed without their donations. I guess they are doing what needs to be done to get past the stadium construction.

I don’t think they would have built the stand without donations in place though.

WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 01:20 PM
to say the Hearts fans werent responsible is just wrong.when they knew they were overspending and cheating to win cups, were they protesting against the owner and trying to stop what they knew was going on behind the scenes? answer no they weree lapping it up and gloating about it prasining Romanov.Im not saying they were 100% responsible but they played a big part in what happend and should be punished.horrible some on here want to defend them

I wonder if there has ever been a set of fans, anywhere in world football, that has protested against their own club for spending too much on players?!

A load of nonsense. We’d have been exactly the same as them and lapped it up.

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 01:26 PM
A month, surely?Yeah. I got carried away in the heat of the invective [emoji23]

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WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 01:28 PM
Every year the same crap comes up on here about the creditors list.

A pub along the road from me went into administration and stuffed some of their suppliers.

If I buy that pub do you really expect me to pay off the debts of the previous owners? Like seriously? Why would I?

Nowhere in business would this happen but because they’re a rival football team you think Budge and / or the fans should pay Romanov’s debts?

That is wired to the moon mental.

She owes them hee-haw and she doesn’t have previous for dodgy accounts or anything like it.

Time for some of you to move on, the rest of Scottish football did years ago.

Keith_M
15-11-2018, 01:28 PM
Yeah. I got carried away in the heat of the invective [emoji23]

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Stop using big words, we didn't all go to private schools you know!


:tsk tsk:

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 01:30 PM
Stop using big words, we didn't all go to private schools you know!


:tsk tsk:Me neither, ya pleb [emoji6]

The words I wanted to use were caught by the swear filter.....

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Keith_M
15-11-2018, 01:36 PM
I think their Mystery Benefactor is Alex Salmond, the one that persuaded the Liquidators to give over the Club without paying off ANY debt. He's quite obviously using the money he receives from Russia Today... funnily enough Russia is where Romanov is now in hiding.

Not that I'm one to start any ludicrous conspiracy theories about any dodgy Russian money being laundered through the UK, via a dodgy football club, and Salmond having inside info to use as leverage for further funds............


:hmmm:


I've got an update on my conspiracy theory (you know, the one nobody's interested in).

I have it on good authority (a guy down the pub called wee Ivan) that Big Eck's current legal proceedings are direct revenge for blackmailing certain Russians into bankrolling The Yam's overspending (as in my crazy theory above).

It's a typical Kremlin tactic, and if this doesn't work, they plan to annexe Linlithgow.


Remember, you heard it here first!

superfurryhibby
15-11-2018, 01:38 PM
Every year the same crap comes up on here about the creditors list.

A pub along the road from me went into administration and stuffed some of their suppliers.

If I buy that pub do you really expect me to pay off the debts of the previous owners? Like seriously? Why would I?

Nowhere in business would this happen but because they’re a rival football team you think Budge and / or the fans should pay Romanov’s debts?

That is wired to the moon mental.

She owes them hee-haw and she doesn’t have previous for dodgy accounts or anything like it.

Time for some of you to move on, the rest of Scottish football did years ago.

If knocking that pub down and generating cash from the sale of the land meant it could pay off all the debtors, would that make any difference.

I do wonder how the administrators were able to avoid reasonable settlement and allow the failed business to keep it’s main asset whilst bumping it’s many creditors.

Kato
15-11-2018, 01:40 PM
I wonder if there has ever been a set of fans, anywhere in world football, that has protested against their own club for spending too much on players?!

A load of nonsense. We’d have been exactly the same as them and lapped it up.

Romanov would have been given short-shrift if he'd try to buy Hibs.

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 01:48 PM
Romanov would have been given short-shrift if he'd try to buy Hibs.

By Sir Tom, obviously but if we where on the verge of selling Easter road to pay off debts I couldn’t see it.

660
15-11-2018, 01:51 PM
Every year the same crap comes up on here about the creditors list.

A pub along the road from me went into administration and stuffed some of their suppliers.

If I buy that pub do you really expect me to pay off the debts of the previous owners? Like seriously? Why would I?

Nowhere in business would this happen but because they’re a rival football team you think Budge and / or the fans should pay Romanov’s debts?

That is wired to the moon mental.

She owes them hee-haw and she doesn’t have previous for dodgy accounts or anything like it.

Time for some of you to move on, the rest of Scottish football did years ago.

The two arent comparable as running a pub isnt a competitive sport. Clubs who enter administration are docked points in an attempt to negate the sporting advantage gained. I don't really expect anyone to pay the debts of previous owners but I would expect more sporting repercussions for clubs who are guilty of financial doping.

Kato
15-11-2018, 02:10 PM
By Sir Tom, obviously but if we where on the verge of selling Easter road to pay off debts I couldn’t see it.

Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline all recognised what was he was, knocked him back and survived.

If Hearts had sold Tynie and went to play games at Murrayfield who's to say that wouldn't have been a success by now? All that "no other option" stuff was a lie.

BSEJVT
15-11-2018, 02:10 PM
You and others who want to constantly defend them on here is embarrasing. the 120k figure I really doubt is true, seems quite a lot and it wouldn´t be the first time they falsified accounts for their own benefit.what people don´t seem to realise is they have a track record of this sort of stuff - I could list many examples. it started before romanov, continued when he was there on a scale not seen before, and still continues today.its something that is natural in the Hearts support and club it is nothing to do with who the owner is or who is running the club.

Step away from the paranoia

You doubt the £120k is true but accountants whose reputation and ability to continue in business and at liberty confirm it is true, I think I will believe them if you don't mind

Who do you think is responsible for the preparation of the accounts, wee Jimmy from Ardmillan Hearts or the directors to meet their legal obligations?

Who signs the accounts off? The directors of the company

Who appoints the directors? The majority shareholders.

We have not one shred of evidence to suggest that there is any current criminality in the post administration Hearts, gross incompetence yes, but current criminality no.

Accountants and directors who sign these things of know that they risk prison for signing false declarations which accompany the accounts and IMO there isn't a chance they are doing so.

Even the Romanov era accountants slathered the accounts full of warnings about ability to continue as a going concern and that they were relying on information and assurances from the owners.

The past is the past.

If folk want to wallow in the injustices of it all, fine.

But they need to be careful that in doing so they are not asleep at the wheel when that £120k per month hits the playing budget and transforms their team on the park v ours.

If its going to be enough for them to complain about the past when we are getting skelped every game as we have for much of my adult life, continue to do nothing other than repeat its an injustice.

Otherwise fight the ****ers head on by ensuring we match / exceed their efforts.

I guess at that time we can sit back and crow about our moral superiority.

Personally I would rather hammer them on the park and crow about our football superiority,

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 02:12 PM
Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline all recognised what was he was, knocked him back and survived.

If Hearts had sold Tynie and went to play games at Murrayfield who's to say that wouldn't have been a success by now? All that "no other option" stuff was a lie.

They weren’t all on the brink of losing their ground. It wasn’t a bluff either Cala had the agreement on it! Same position we would have done the same in all reality and the guy would have been launder by the support etc too.

WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 02:14 PM
The two arent comparable as running a pub isnt a competitive sport. Clubs who enter administration are docked points in an attempt to negate the sporting advantage gained. I don't really expect anyone to pay the debts of previous owners but I would expect more sporting repercussions for clubs who are guilty of financial doping.

That’s fair enough and you could argue that a 15pt deduction wasn’t a severe enough punishment.

That’s an entirely different conversation to the one here though.

New owners paying off previous owners debts is simply nonsense though.

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 02:14 PM
Step away from the paranoia

You doubt the £120k is true but accountants whose reputation and ability to continue in business and at liberty confirm it is true, I think I will believe them if you don't mind

Who do you think is responsible for the preparation of the accounts, wee Jimmy from Ardmillan Hearts or the directors to meet their legal obligations?

Who signs the accounts off? The directors of the company

Who appoints the directors? The majority shareholders.

We have not one shred of evidence to suggest that there is any current criminality in the post administration Hearts, gross incompetence yes, but current criminality no.

Accountants and directors who sign these things of know that they risk prison for signing false declarations which accompany the accounts and IMO there isn't a chance they are doing so.

Even the Romanov era accountants slathered the accounts full of warnings about ability to continue as a going concern and that they were relying on information and assurances from the owners.

The past is the past.

If folk want to wallow in the injustices of it all, fine.

But they need to be careful that in doing so they are not asleep at the wheel when that £120k per month hits the playing budget and transforms their team on the park v ours.

If its going to be enough for them to complain about the past when we are getting skelped every game as we have for much of my adult life, continue to do nothing other than repeat its an injustice.

Otherwise fight the ****ers head on by ensuring we match / exceed their efforts.

I guess at that time we can sit back and crow about our moral superiority.

Personally I would rather hammer them on the park and crow about our football superiority,

Fantastic post. Spot on.

Not In The Know
15-11-2018, 02:36 PM
step away from the paranoia

you doubt the £120k is true but accountants whose reputation and ability to continue in business and at liberty confirm it is true, i think i will believe them if you don't mind

who do you think is responsible for the preparation of the accounts, wee jimmy from ardmillan hearts or the directors to meet their legal obligations?

Who signs the accounts off? The directors of the company

who appoints the directors? The majority shareholders.

We have not one shred of evidence to suggest that there is any current criminality in the post administration hearts, gross incompetence yes, but current criminality no.

Accountants and directors who sign these things of know that they risk prison for signing false declarations which accompany the accounts and imo there isn't a chance they are doing so.

Even the romanov era accountants slathered the accounts full of warnings about ability to continue as a going concern and that they were relying on information and assurances from the owners.

The past is the past.

If folk want to wallow in the injustices of it all, fine.

But they need to be careful that in doing so they are not asleep at the wheel when that £120k per month hits the playing budget and transforms their team on the park v ours.

If its going to be enough for them to complain about the past when we are getting skelped every game as we have for much of my adult life, continue to do nothing other than repeat its an injustice.

Otherwise fight the ****ers head on by ensuring we match / exceed their efforts.

I guess at that time we can sit back and crow about our moral superiority.

Personally i would rather hammer them on the park and crow about our football superiority,


this!

Ozyhibby
15-11-2018, 02:55 PM
Almost all of the creditors Hearts stiffed when they went into admin will be back working with Hearts and will no doubt be offering them normal trade credit terms. I think if they can move on from their admin then maybe some of us should too.



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WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 03:02 PM
^^Absolutely.

Likewise I’m sure Herriot Watt are happy with their arrangement and even the Lady Haig thing will still be happy getting money from them each year.

The only folk bothered by any of it now are a few Hibs fans stuck in the past.

broondog
15-11-2018, 03:19 PM
Step away from the paranoia

You doubt the £120k is true but accountants whose reputation and ability to continue in business and at liberty confirm it is true, I think I will believe them if you don't mind

Who do you think is responsible for the preparation of the accounts, wee Jimmy from Ardmillan Hearts or the directors to meet their legal obligations?

Who signs the accounts off? The directors of the company

Who appoints the directors? The majority shareholders.

We have not one shred of evidence to suggest that there is any current criminality in the post administration Hearts, gross incompetence yes, but current criminality no.

Accountants and directors who sign these things of know that they risk prison for signing false declarations which accompany the accounts and IMO there isn't a chance they are doing so.

Even the Romanov era accountants slathered the accounts full of warnings about ability to continue as a going concern and that they were relying on information and assurances from the owners.

The past is the past.

If folk want to wallow in the injustices of it all, fine.

But they need to be careful that in doing so they are not asleep at the wheel when that £120k per month hits the playing budget and transforms their team on the park v ours.

If its going to be enough for them to complain about the past when we are getting skelped every game as we have for much of my adult life, continue to do nothing other than repeat its an injustice.

Otherwise fight the ****ers head on by ensuring we match / exceed their efforts.

I guess at that time we can sit back and crow about our moral superiority.

Personally I would rather hammer them on the park and crow about our football superiority,

agree with a lot of that bottom bit especialy but I have every right to doubt the 120k just as i doubted the dodgy dealings and figures being quoted and banded about during the romanov era.it might be true it might not but I make no apologies for assuming the worst when it comes to them

Daydreamer
15-11-2018, 03:35 PM
[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5605235]Almost all of the creditors Hearts stiffed when they went into admin will be back working with Hearts and will no doubt be offering them normal trade credit terms. I think if they can move on from their admin then maybe some of us should too.

The company from Wolverhampton that make the football stadia seats told them straight. Pay your previous debt or get them elsewhere. We all know now that they had to get the seats from South Korea not the pish that someone forgot to order them.

SirDavidsNapper
15-11-2018, 03:46 PM
Some Hibs fans obsess over Hearts finances more than our own. **** Hearts.

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 04:16 PM
agree with a lot of that bottom bit especialy but I have every right to doubt the 120k just as i doubted the dodgy dealings and figures being quoted and banded about during the romanov era.it might be true it might not but I make no apologies for assuming the worst when it comes to themWhy would they lie about the 120k?

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Famous Fiver
15-11-2018, 04:35 PM
While the Chief

I don't consider myself living in the past. I live every day as it comes and have great plans for the future.

My grandfather fought for four years in the First World War (invalided home twice, returned to duty both times, died with shrapnel in his body years later). My father fought for six years in the Second World War. Both came though alive while many of their comrades did not.

In the very real present time it turns my stomach to think of the Lady Haig Poppy Fund being stiffed, even if it was for a relatively small amount in the total administration deficit.

I think it is you who should examine your values.

wallpaperman
15-11-2018, 07:19 PM
In the very real present time it turns my stomach to think of the Lady Haig Poppy Fund being stiffed, even if it was for a relatively small amount in the total administration deficit.

I think it is you who should examine your values.

From the point of view about the Lady Haig Poppy fund being out of pocket, the money was quickly paid back by a group of Hearts supporters, so the charity was not out of pocket for long at all.

While I'm never one for defending Hearts fans, at least in this instance they put the situation right, when the club were in no position to do so as they were in the administration mire at that point.

One Day Soon
15-11-2018, 07:29 PM
^^Absolutely.

Likewise I’m sure Herriot Watt are happy with their arrangement and even the Lady Haig thing will still be happy getting money from them each year.

The only folk bothered by any of it now are a few Hibs fans stuck in the past.


They have never missed an opportunity to do us down or to feather their own nests when possible. Whether legitimately or not.

The attempt to store education department pianos under the stand at old Tynecastle being a case in point. In order to be able to justify paying 'rent' to Hearts from the old Regional Council they wanted to put pianos into completely inappropriate storage under the stand that was damp. That one, I think, was thwarted.

They must have set a world record for the issuing of temporary fire certificates for the old stand. I mean, after how many years can a succession of these things be described as 'temporary'?

The treatment of our club in relation to the proposed development of the Butterfly land adjacent to Easter Road where obstacle after obstacle was put in front of the proposed development. I wonder why?

The gloating attempt to establish the term 'Hibsing it'. The smug 'Docksiders' chat. This is an institution and a fan base with a hugely grand conceit of itself, holier than thou, and ready to try to reinforce its establishment credentials at every opportunity.

Yes, their treatment of the creditors is in the past. But it was disgraceful, it came about because they bent over willingly for Romanov, they knew he was a complete charlatan and they were happy to turn a blind eye to what was going on. They still want to gloat about the benefits they got from it all, while distancing themselves from all the dirty dealings and the impact on people and businesses who were done over to pay for it. Not just here but in Lithuania and elsewhere - including the asset stripped pension funds.

It is quite a feat that they can tirelessly commemorate the heroic actions of Hearts players 100 years ago, but they somehow have complete memory loss over what their club did just 5 years ago.

So I will NEVER tire of reminding them that they are Poppy Thieves and more, that for all their facade of respectable Edinburgh establishment superiority, their club was the lowest of the low - and when it was they were willing accomplices who didn't so much as turn a hair about any of it, then or now. Utterly despicable.

WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 07:31 PM
While the Chief

I don't consider myself living in the past. I live every day as it comes and have great plans for the future.

My grandfather fought for four years in the First World War (invalided home twice, returned to duty both times, died with shrapnel in his body years later). My father fought for six years in the Second World War. Both came though alive while many of their comrades did not.

In the very real present time it turns my stomach to think of the Lady Haig Poppy Fund being stiffed, even if it was for a relatively small amount in the total administration deficit.

I think it is you who should examine your values.

Nah I'm fine thanks.

Hibs fans using that as something to get one over on Hearts though - that's the distasteful part.

Tornadoes70
15-11-2018, 07:46 PM
Nah I'm fine thanks.

Hibs fans using that as something to get one over on Hearts though - that's the distasteful part.

What's really distasteful is Hearts fans who still revel in their 'cup win' in the knowledge it was 'won' using multi millions acquired from a fraudulent (alleged) criminals money and whose club stiffed an army of creditors while using said fraudulent criminally acquired money. That's the real shameful act not supporters of their rivals who call them out on it who had to endure watching their nearest rivals celebrating from ill gained loot. Get real.

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 07:49 PM
Nah I'm fine thanks.

Hibs fans using that as something to get one over on Hearts though - that's the distasteful part.

👍

Tornadoes70
15-11-2018, 07:51 PM
👍

ltyf

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 07:54 PM
What's really distasteful is Hearts fans who still revel in their 'cup win' in the knowledge it was 'won' using multi millions acquired from a fraudulent (alleged) criminals money and whose club stiffed an army of creditors while using said fraudulent criminally acquired money. That's the real shameful act not supporters of their rivals who call them out on it who had to endure watching their nearest rivals celebrating from ill gained loot. Get real.

You genuinely expect a football fan not to celebrate a cup win regardless of how it happens? People really need to get over the bitterness. I thought us winning the cup would do so as it did in many ways for me. It doesn’t look like it though.

As for hearts accounts, all it does is give a red face to hibs fans who don’t want to put money into us as much as they do yet sit beside a wee excuse book.

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 07:54 PM
ltyf

😃😃😃 you’ve not got a clue my friend.

Tornadoes70
15-11-2018, 07:54 PM
You genuinely expect a football fan not to celebrate a cup win regardless of how it happens? People really need to get over the bitterness. I thought us winning the cup would do so as it did in many ways for me. It doesn’t look like it though.

As for hearts accounts, all it does is give a red face to hibs fans who don’t want to put money into us as much as they do yet sit beside a wee excuse book.

ltyf

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 07:55 PM
ltyf

You can say that again. Fancy engaging your brain next time, no?

WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 08:03 PM
What's really distasteful is Hearts fans who still revel in their 'cup win' in the knowledge it was 'won' using multi millions acquired from a fraudulent (alleged) criminals money and whose club stiffed an army of creditors while using said fraudulent criminally acquired money. That's the real shameful act not supporters of their rivals who call them out on it who had to endure watching their nearest rivals celebrating from ill gained loot. Get real.

Nobody cares anymore.

malcolm
15-11-2018, 08:04 PM
From the point of view about the Lady Haig Poppy fund being out of pocket, the money was quickly paid back by a group of Hearts supporters, so the charity was not out of pocket for long at all.

While I'm never one for defending Hearts fans, at least in this instance they put the situation right, when the club were in no position to do so as they were in the administration mire at that point.
First I’ve heard that it was actually their fans.. you’d expect that to be so given their desire to closely associate with such charitable causes but I’d heard more often that it was STF on the quiet :greengrin

truehibernian
15-11-2018, 08:10 PM
You genuinely expect a football fan not to celebrate a cup win regardless of how it happens? People really need to get over the bitterness. I thought us winning the cup would do so as it did in many ways for me. It doesn’t look like it though.

As for hearts accounts, all it does is give a red face to hibs fans who don’t want to put money into us as much as they do yet sit beside a wee excuse book.

Why on earth would any Hibs fan be 'red faced' ? There is way way way more to life than football but as it goes Hibs fans have absolutely turned around the club's fortunes this last 5 years by not only digging deep financially in hard times but by also showing superb positivity - which in turn has had a positive impact on the team and football played, and the success we have had this last wee while in cups and derbies. Hearts are very well run now, Budge has steadied the ship and thankfully has a moral compass which is good to see. But they very nearly went to the wall and an emotional pull rallied their fans - which they are to be be commended for, no doubt about it. But 'red faced' - aye, okay then :aok: Hibs fans have been superb and continue to be.........your post is crass and trust me, there are no 'wee excuse books' on my bedside table :wink:. Sounds like you have 'Robbo's Greatest Goals' on yours mind :greengrin

Tornadoes70
15-11-2018, 08:10 PM
You can say that again. Fancy engaging your brain next time, no?

Whats the point. You've called hibs supporters who rightfully continue to remind us all just how hearts prospered while stiffing an army of creditors 'bitter' while at the same time saying its perfectly fine for hearts fans to revel and celebrate at 'cups won' while financed by a (alleged) fraudster's multi millions and literally criticised us for being 'tight' and to cap that off we've some sort of book with ready made excuses. I wouldn't know where to start.

Tornadoes70
15-11-2018, 08:15 PM
Nobody cares anymore.

Wide sweeping generalisation there. The hearts fans still seem to care they still celebrate their 'cups won' while being financed by the (alleged) criminal and why shouldn't hibs supporters remind them their 'honours' were won while stiffing an army of creditors in the process?

MWHIBBIES
15-11-2018, 08:15 PM
You genuinely expect a football fan not to celebrate a cup win regardless of how it happens? People really need to get over the bitterness. I thought us winning the cup would do so as it did in many ways for me. It doesn’t look like it though.

As for hearts accounts, all it does is give a red face to hibs fans who don’t want to put money into us as much as they do yet sit beside a wee excuse book.Portsmouth fans are the same. Their club was hours from dying because of the FA Cup they bought. They all think it was worth it.

truehibernian
15-11-2018, 08:26 PM
Portsmouth fans are the same. Their club was hours from dying because of the FA Cup they bought. They all think it was worth it.

The fickle nature of sport and football MW - but I've got a good mate who supports Pompey and he'd swap that cup win if it meant not going through the emotional turmoil it caused for years after. Great club and fervent fans :aok:

MWHIBBIES
15-11-2018, 08:27 PM
The fickle nature of sport and football MW - but I've got a good mate who supports Pompey and he'd swap that cup win if it meant not going through the emotional turmoil it caused for years after. Great club and fervent fans :aok:Fair enough, naturally some exceptions. Most I've seen online say it was worth it.

WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 08:33 PM
Wide sweeping generalisation there. The hearts fans still seem to care they still celebrate their 'cups won' while being financed by the (alleged) criminal and why shouldn't hibs supporters remind them their 'honours' were won while stiffing an army of creditors in the process?

How are you reminding Hearts fans of anything when you’re posting on a Hibs forum?

truehibernian
15-11-2018, 08:34 PM
Fair enough, naturally some exceptions. Most I've seen online say it was worth it.

I still celebrate the Tennent's Sixes win mate, despite our predicament back then so I'm a hypocrite too :greengrin

Saturday Boy
15-11-2018, 08:47 PM
How are you reminding Hearts fans of anything when you’re posting on a Hibs forum?

You’d be amazed how many read the forum

And post here...............

Eyrie
15-11-2018, 08:55 PM
Not sure that the Hearts accounts are legit just because they were audited. Didn't Carillion have an audit?

Saturday Boy
15-11-2018, 08:58 PM
Not sure that the Hearts accounts are legit just because they were audited. Didn't Carillion have an audit?

Carillion? That rings a bell.

Joe6-2
15-11-2018, 09:04 PM
[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5605235]Almost all of the creditors Hearts stiffed when they went into admin will be back working with Hearts and will no doubt be offering them normal trade credit terms. I think if they can move on from their admin then maybe some of us should too.

The company from Wolverhampton that make the football stadia seats told them straight. Pay your previous debt or get them elsewhere. We all know now that they had to get the seats from South Korea not the pish that someone forgot to order them.

They must have some brass neck to approach companies that they fleeced to work with again

WhileTheChief..
15-11-2018, 09:15 PM
So not only do they lose the money Hearts owed them, you also want them to miss out on future business from post-admin Hearts?

Should Lady Haig Fund have been saying no thank you for the money raised by Hearts over the last few years? Maybe they should hand it back eh.

Do any of you guys think things through at all?!

wallpaperman
15-11-2018, 09:25 PM
First I’ve heard that it was actually their fans.. you’d expect that to be so given their desire to closely associate with such charitable causes but I’d heard more often that it was STF on the quiet :greengrin

Just got the info from a Herald article;

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13116512.hearts-fans-settle-clubs-debt-for-unpaid-poppy-wreaths/

linlithgowhibbie
15-11-2018, 10:22 PM
I've got an update on my conspiracy theory (you know, the one nobody's interested in).

I have it on good authority (a guy down the pub called wee Ivan) that Big Eck's current legal proceedings are direct revenge for blackmailing certain Russians into bankrolling The Yam's overspending (as in my crazy theory above).

It's a typical Kremlin tactic, and if this doesn't work, they plan to annexe Linlithgow.


Remember, you heard it here first!


I will be giving them a square go on the Peel if they turn up here!!:nlgwa

The 90+2
15-11-2018, 11:07 PM
Portsmouth fans are the same. Their club was hours from dying because of the FA Cup they bought. They all think it was worth it.

Yep, I would have done anything to see us win the Scottish Cup. It yes, makes it a little sweeter in fact a good deal sweeter we won it in our terms as a club the way we did if I’m sitting there at the time prior to that and I knew people who didn’t get to see it, I wouldn’t have given a **** how we win it let alone think it’s some kind of tainted ****. I said before, I would have thought us winning the cup would have stopped the obsession with them.

I will say this though, for a club that shafted lots and lots of companies and guilt tripped their support over and over again - they do have supporters who trust them enough to plough **** loads into them or their foundation etc month after month. Yet many of our support questions and make excuse after excuse for doing similar for us? “Aye but they cheated” simply doesn’t and won’t wash in years to come when some wee fud is telling another he’s a hearts fan for spelling out his pathetic it is.

CropleyWasGod
15-11-2018, 11:41 PM
Not sure that the Hearts accounts are legit just because they were audited. Didn't Carillion have an audit?I'm no great lover of auditors, but there's a world of difference between the audit of a multinational PLC and an owner-managed one-site company.

Whilst there are inherent areas of risk in the Hearts audit, they are so obvious that most auditors should be able to deal with them.


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Ozyhibby
16-11-2018, 02:16 AM
[QUOTE=Daydreamer;5605246]

They must have some brass neck to approach companies that they fleeced to work with again

The companies would have approached them. When a debt goes unpaid, usually both the lender and the borrower are at fault. That was certainly the case with the yams. These companies should have stopped extending credit long before they did, especially given the warning signs that were there. Some of them deserved to lose money, such was their lack of awareness.
In business though, a pragmatic approach is usually what is taken and they will have approached the yams the day Budge took over, looking to start making money again. It’s the way the system works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FilipinoHibs
16-11-2018, 06:26 AM
They have never missed an opportunity to do us down or to feather their own nests when possible. Whether legitimately or not.

The attempt to store education department pianos under the stand at old Tynecastle being a case in point. In order to be able to justify paying 'rent' to Hearts from the old Regional Council they wanted to put pianos into completely inappropriate storage under the stand that was damp. That one, I think, was thwarted.

They must have set a world record for the issuing of temporary fire certificates for the old stand. I mean, after how many years can a succession of these things be described as 'temporary'?

The treatment of our club in relation to the proposed development of the Butterfly land adjacent to Easter Road where obstacle after obstacle was put in front of the proposed development. I wonder why?

The gloating attempt to establish the term 'Hibsing it'. The smug 'Docksiders' chat. This is an institution and a fan base with a hugely grand conceit of itself, holier than thou, and ready to try to reinforce its establishment credentials at every opportunity.

Yes, their treatment of the creditors is in the past. But it was disgraceful, it came about because they bent over willingly for Romanov, they knew he was a complete charlatan and they were happy to turn a blind eye to what was going on. They still want to gloat about the benefits they got from it all, while distancing themselves from all the dirty dealings and the impact on people and businesses who were done over to pay for it. Not just here but in Lithuania and elsewhere - including the asset stripped pension funds.

It is quite a feat that they can tirelessly commemorate the heroic actions of Hearts players 100 years ago, but they somehow have complete memory loss over what their club did just 5 years ago.

So I will NEVER tire of reminding them that they are Poppy Thieves and more, that for all their facade of respectable Edinburgh establishment superiority, their club was the lowest of the low - and when it was they were willing accomplices who didn't so much as turn a hair about any of it, then or now. Utterly despicable.

Agree. Will gode them at every opportunity about their thieving or about the batch of latest fantasy profits. Never let them forget.

cocteautwin
16-11-2018, 07:17 AM
the 120k figure I really doubt is true . . . . . . .

The £120k figure is certainly true, it amounts to some £8m injected in to the project since their Admin.

Not wishing to start a conspiracy theory, but I've always wondered if there is any transparency on what makes up this figure? Is it 8000 people contributing £15 a month or perhaps 7999 people contributing £3 a month and one person contributing £96k a month? The whole project seems ripe for money laundering of a sort. Inject a large amount in to a football club one end and take it out at the Korean end with a side invoice for "consultancy" work on the inflated cost purchase of stadium parts. I see this sort of transaction all the time in the past 15 years dealing with factories in Asia and it's not something that could ever be audited. £17m is a lot of money to spend on 3/4 of a stand. Well, that's my conspiracy theory for the day.

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 07:56 AM
Yup, the whole FOH thing is money laundering on a grand scale.

Somehow all the authorities missed it but luckily a couple of fans on a rival message board are on the game to save the day.

Get writing those letters folks.

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 08:10 AM
The £120k figure is certainly true, it amounts to some £8m injected in to the project since their Admin.

Not wishing to start a conspiracy theory, but I've always wondered if there is any transparency on what makes up this figure? Is it 8000 people contributing £15 a month or perhaps 7999 people contributing £3 a month and one person contributing £96k a month? The whole project seems ripe for money laundering of a sort. Inject a large amount in to a football club one end and take it out at the Korean end with a side invoice for "consultancy" work on the inflated cost purchase of stadium parts. I see this sort of transaction all the time in the past 15 years dealing with factories in Asia and it's not something that could ever be audited. £17m is a lot of money to spend on 3/4 of a stand. Well, that's my conspiracy theory for the day.

The money to Hearts comes from FOH, who have different accountants. Both firms of accountants have their Anti Money Laundering responsibilities, which they need to satisfy otherwise they are liable to 7 years' imprisonment.

The bar for reporting ML is very low. The accountant doesn't need proof or evidence that it's going on. All they need is suspicion.

In addition, the bankers and lawyers of both companies have AML responsibilities. If I was wanting to launder money, I'd choose somewhere that was much easier.

cocteautwin
16-11-2018, 08:17 AM
Yup, the whole FOH thing is money laundering on a grand scale.

Somehow all the authorities missed it but luckily a couple of fans on a rival message board are on the game to save the day.

Get writing those letters folks.


Meh. This is a Hibs web site, get with program. It’s not a beacon of impartiality and fairness glowing in the dark.

The sums involved are massive – close to £20m and lacking in clarity of their source for large parts of it. Football clubs are a notorious breeding ground for money laundering. If they are not willing to provide any transparency let’s have a bit of fun speculating on the origin of such. Looney conspiracy theory I know, but this was pointed out in the post.

SirDavidsNapper
16-11-2018, 08:19 AM
Yup, the whole FOH thing is money laundering on a grand scale.

Somehow all the authorities missed it but luckily a couple of fans on a rival message board are on the game to save the day.

Get writing those letters folks.

Hibs.net must have the highest number of chartered accountants on any fans forum in Scotland. Businesses failing left right and centre because they're all on here commenting on Hearts.

green day
16-11-2018, 08:20 AM
I'd choose somewhere that was much easier.

A cash business - tanning salons, nail bars, minicabs?

I'm sure some of the lads involved in distribution and retail based in Gimerton and the Inch could give her tips 😁

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 08:29 AM
A cash business - tanning salons, nail bars, minicabs?

I'm sure some of the lads involved in distribution and retail based in Gimerton and the Inch could give her tips [emoji16]Cash is king ....No pun intended, maybe.... when it comes to money laundering [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 08:32 AM
Hibs.net must have the highest number of chartered accountants on any fans forum in Scotland. Businesses failing left right and centre because they're all on here commenting on Hearts.

Yup. And when Hearts were building their stand these accountants all became building contractors!!!

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 08:39 AM
Hibs.net must have the highest number of chartered accountants on any fans forum in Scotland. Businesses failing left right and centre because they're all on here commenting on Hearts.2 isn't such a high number

And multi-tasking is inherent in the ICAS exams. [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

son of haggart
16-11-2018, 10:03 AM
The £120k figure is certainly true, it amounts to some £8m injected in to the project since their Admin.

Not wishing to start a conspiracy theory, but I've always wondered if there is any transparency on what makes up this figure? Is it 8000 people contributing £15 a month or perhaps 7999 people contributing £3 a month and one person contributing £96k a month? The whole project seems ripe for money laundering of a sort. Inject a large amount in to a football club one end and take it out at the Korean end with a side invoice for "consultancy" work on the inflated cost purchase of stadium parts. I see this sort of transaction all the time in the past 15 years dealing with factories in Asia and it's not something that could ever be audited. £17m is a lot of money to spend on 3/4 of a stand. Well, that's my conspiracy theory for the day.

There's a minimum contribution of I think £10 a month . Most people have upped there's in the time since it's launch. I pay £20 a month, many pay more. I doubt there are any substantial contributors as they would be more likely to go down the benefactor route for tax reasons I would guess.

BILLYHIBS
16-11-2018, 10:08 AM
There's a minimum contribution of I think £10 a month . Most people have upped there's in the time since it's launch. I pay £20 a month, many pay more. I doubt there are any substantial contributors as they would be more likely to go down the benefactor route for tax reasons I would guess.
120k a month is pretty impressive in anyone’s book
I take my hat off to you.

SirDavidsNapper
16-11-2018, 10:12 AM
2 isn't such a high number

And multi-tasking is inherent in the ICAS exams. [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Haha. I've heard the easier ACCA exams are held at Tynecastle... Maybe just a coincidence :wink:

One Day Soon
16-11-2018, 10:46 AM
Yep, I would have done anything to see us win the Scottish Cup. It yes, makes it a little sweeter in fact a good deal sweeter we won it in our terms as a club the way we did if I’m sitting there at the time prior to that and I knew people who didn’t get to see it, I wouldn’t have given a **** how we win it let alone think it’s some kind of tainted ****. I said before, I would have thought us winning the cup would have stopped the obsession with them.

I will say this though, for a club that shafted lots and lots of companies and guilt tripped their support over and over again - they do have supporters who trust them enough to plough **** loads into them or their foundation etc month after month. Yet many of our support questions and make excuse after excuse for doing similar for us? “Aye but they cheated” simply doesn’t and won’t wash in years to come when some wee fud is telling another he’s a hearts fan for spelling out his pathetic it is.


I'm not sure I see why you would think it impossible to both hold the position that they cheated (which they absolutely did) and that we should be driving our own level of supporter donations/share purchase up as high as possible. How are they contradictory?

lapsedhibee
16-11-2018, 12:07 PM
Yup, the whole FOH thing is money laundering on a grand scale.

Somehow all the authorities missed it but luckily a couple of fans on a rival message board are on the game to save the day.

Get writing those letters folks.

'The authorities' either 'missed' or 'turned a blind eye to' or deliberately colluded with some decidedly odd numbers in both Hearts' and the Rangers' recent troubles.

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 12:53 PM
Since Hearts came out of admin?

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 12:58 PM
Haha. I've heard the easier ACCA exams are held at Tynecastle... Maybe just a coincidence :wink:

Always in our shadow :cb

Diclonius
16-11-2018, 01:01 PM
Seven pages.

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 01:06 PM
'The authorities' either 'missed' or 'turned a blind eye to' or deliberately colluded with some decidedly odd numbers in both Hearts' and the Rangers' recent troubles.

It's a fair point.

However, reporting of ML suspicion is done confidentially, and it's then up to the justice system to deal with that report as they see fit.

We therefore can't know whether any reporting was actually done, or indeed if the auditors and lawyers were making reports every single week. If reports were made, and the National Crime Agency thought them worthy of further action, I think we would have known by now. (alternatively, for all we know, the NCA have contributed to Vlad's case in Lithuania, hence the reason for continued silence).

AltheHibby
16-11-2018, 01:07 PM
Haha. I've heard the easier ACCA exams are held at Tynecastle... Maybe just a coincidence :wink:

I thought they were taken at Ladbrokes or is that a different ACCA? 🤔

Kato
16-11-2018, 01:07 PM
Yep, I would have done anything to see us win the Scottish Cup. It yes, makes it a little sweeter in fact a good deal sweeter we won it in our terms as a club the way we did if I’m sitting there at the time prior to that and I knew people who didn’t get to see it, I wouldn’t have given a **** how we win it let alone think it’s some kind of tainted ****. I said before, I would have thought us winning the cup would have stopped the obsession with them.

I guess you don't really understand what sport is then.

Kato
16-11-2018, 01:09 PM
Nah I'm fine thanks.

Hibs fans using that as something to get one over on Hearts though - that's the distasteful part.


Is he doing that?

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 01:17 PM
Go back and read the thread properly.

I said Lady Haig are probably happy to still be getting money from Hearts post admin.

He then tells me to examine my values for some reason?

My point about Hibs fans using this to get one over on Hearts? Are you being serious?

There’s plentty of it on this thread alone. Poppy thieves, never let them forget etc.

There was a story in the EEN once about a poppy collection tin being stolen from a shop. I wonder how many of you are still mad about that?

None, cause you don’t really give a damn about the poppy fund. You want to point score over Hearts.

As I said, distasteful.

Kato
16-11-2018, 01:19 PM
Go back and read the thread properly.

I said Lady Haig are probably happy to still be getting money from Hearts post admin.

He then tells me to examine my values for some reason?

My point about Hibs fans using this to get one over on Hearts? Are you being serious?

There’s plentty of it on this thread alone. Poppy thieves, never let them forget etc.

There was a story in the EEN once about a poppy collection tin being stolen from a shop. I wonder how many of you are still mad about that?

None, cause you don’t really give a damn about the poppy fund. You want to point score over Hearts.

As I said, distasteful.


It's not Hibs fans fault that Heart of Midlothian Football Club stole from a charity.

Is it?

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 01:37 PM
Eh? You know the point I’m making.

Anyways you disagree with pretty much anything I post on any thread so no matter really!

Kato
16-11-2018, 01:41 PM
Eh? You know the point I’m making.

Anyways you disagree with pretty much anything I post on any thread so no matter really!

You think Sectarianism isn't a problem in Scotland - have to disagree there.

You find pointing out that Heart of Midlothian Football Club benefiting on the park from the proceeds of stolen monies belonging to charities is "distasteful" - have to disagree there too.

That about covers it.

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 01:43 PM
We’re talking post admin Hearts here.

What charities have they stuffed?

PatHead
16-11-2018, 02:03 PM
Go back and read the thread properly.

I said Lady Haig are probably happy to still be getting money from Hearts post admin.

He then tells me to examine my values for some reason?

My point about Hibs fans using this to get one over on Hearts? Are you being serious?

There’s plentty of it on this thread alone. Poppy thieves, never let them forget etc.

There was a story in the EEN once about a poppy collection tin being stolen from a shop. I wonder how many of you are still mad about that?

None, cause you don’t really give a damn about the poppy fund. You want to point score over Hearts.

As I said, distasteful.

Thing is, Lady Haig poppy fund never got the money from Hearts, they never ever will.

They did however receive a donation which someone made matching the amount of the money Hearts bumped them for.

Tornadoes70
16-11-2018, 02:03 PM
You think Sectarianism isn't a problem in Scotland - have to disagree there.

You find pointing out that Heart of Midlothian Football Club benefiting on the park from the proceeds of stolen monies belonging to charities is "distasteful" - have to disagree there too.

That about covers it.

Its the twighlight zone.

So called Hibs supporters loudly dictating to other Hibs supporters in a its just not cricket kind of manner to have a jest at hearts of their use of a (alleged) criminals multi millions to 'win' cups one that was 'won' against us and their subsequent downfall. Dearie me.

Danderhall Hibs
16-11-2018, 02:04 PM
Seven pages.

Change your settings if it concerns you. It’s only just started a 3rd page on my phone.

Anyway - I think more should be made of the fact that STF paid their poppy bill off. Stays true to our clubs charitable foundations. Good for him for trying to keep his name out of it but I think mote should be made of it.

Kato
16-11-2018, 02:22 PM
We’re talking post admin Hearts here.

What charities have they stuffed?

Every version of Heart of Midlothian in my lifetime have been at it in some way during my lifetime. Whether it be selling their ground to the "Corporation" and renting it back, weird little space rental deals with Edinburgh Council whereby the space was never used, wasting the SMG cash they got for youth development on transfers then pretending Riccarton is theirs, Romanov leaving them owing mllions, Mercer leaving them owing millions, the Pieman leaving them owing millions.

If the "mystery benefactors" turned out to be using a scam would anyone be really surprised?

I don't care if it's post-admin Hearts, pre-Admin Hearts, post-modern Hearts or Pre-Crustation Hearts. It's Hearts -and their finances have always ranged from murky to as muddy as a Cramond picnic.

Keith_M
16-11-2018, 02:30 PM
We’re talking post admin Hearts here.

What charities have they stuffed?


So are you saying this is a new Hearts?


:dunno:

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 02:33 PM
So are you saying this is a new Hearts?


:dunno:

Just dinnae :tsk tsk:

Keith_M
16-11-2018, 02:41 PM
Just dinnae :tsk tsk:



How no? :greengrin



Anyway, away back to Gordonstoun and practice yir fancy big words

:na na:

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 03:18 PM
So are you saying this is a new Hearts?


:dunno:

I guess I am :)

Why don’t we call them Bidco!

weecounty hibby
16-11-2018, 03:22 PM
Go back and read the thread properly.

I said Lady Haig are probably happy to still be getting money from Hearts post admin.

He then tells me to examine my values for some reason?

My point about Hibs fans using this to get one over on Hearts? Are you being serious?

There’s plentty of it on this thread alone. Poppy thieves, never let them forget etc.

There was a story in the EEN once about a poppy collection tin being stolen from a shop. I wonder how many of you are still mad about that?

None, cause you don’t really give a damn about the poppy fund. You want to point score over Hearts.

As I said, distasteful.

Chances are that the shop in question in your reply didnt ever make a huge PR effort around any of the shops staff who had served in the armed forces, nor, Im willing to bet, did they encourage the myth that they were a unique shop and that only their staff from the world of shopworkers signed up to fight. All in all a total embarrassment for any other club, but not them they still believe that it was all worth it. Due to their own hubris they should never be allowed to completely sweep that under the carpet

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 03:31 PM
Yeah but everything you mention there is emotional stuff.

My post was in response to the suggestion that the new owners of a business should pay off the debts of the previous owners.

I stand by my point that that is just a ridiculous suggestion.

Administration is the process by which an attempt to pay back the creditors is made. If there’s not enough money to go round then they get bumped.

I’d imagine it happens every day.

The laws of the land appear to agree with me.

Kato
16-11-2018, 03:40 PM
Yeah but everything you mention there is emotional stuff.

My post was in response to the suggestion that the new owners of a business should pay off the debts of the previous owners.

I stand by my point that that is just a ridiculous suggestion.

Administration is the process by which an attempt to pay back the creditors is made. If there’s not enough money to go round then they get bumped.

I’d imagine it happens every day.

The laws of the land appear to agree with me.

I'm not arguing and you are right it is the law of the land. The whole episode does however scream of self-righteousness and back-slapping when real people were bumped out of real money without a backward glance.

In contrast when Hibs came out of receivership after Mercer's attempted asset stripping attempt Tom Farmer paid all of Hibernian FC's debt, despite what the law if land said.

One Day Soon
16-11-2018, 04:08 PM
I'm not arguing and you are right it is the law of the land. The whole episode does however scream of self-righteousness and back-slapping when real people were bumped out of real money without a backward glance.

In contrast when Hibs came out of receivership after Mercer's attempted asset stripping attempt Tom Farmer paid all of Hibernian FC's debt, despite what the law if land said.


Is that so? I never knew that.

I guess debt doesn't show on a maroon shirt.

superfurryhibby
16-11-2018, 04:15 PM
I'm not arguing and you are right it is the law of the land. The whole episode does however scream of self-righteousness and back-slapping when real people were bumped out of real money without a backward glance.

In contrast when Hibs came out of receivership after Mercer's attempted asset stripping attempt Tom Farmer paid all of Hibernian FC's debt, despite what the law if land said.

Did he really? i would be very surprised at that, especially when most of the losses focussed on the doomed business of the ill fated Avon Inn’s leisure chain that was foisted upon us by the “ brains” behind the scam that took us into administration in the first place. Can’t see a shrewd guy like STF being so magnanimous in those circumstances.

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 04:18 PM
Did he really? i would be very surprised at that, especially when most of the losses focussed on the doomed business of the ill fated Avon Inn’s leisure chain that was foisted upon us by the “ brains” behind the scam that took us into administration in the first place. Can’t see a shrewd guy like STF being so magnanimous in those circumstances.

He bought the football club, which was at that time a subsidiary of Avon Inns, from the receiver of that company.

As Kato said, he settled all debts of the football club. But, and I differ slightly from him here, he did have to pay them; he wasn't able to hide behind insolvency.

Kato
16-11-2018, 04:32 PM
He bought the football club, which was at that time a subsidiary of Avon Inns, from the receiver of that company.

As Kato said, he settled all debts of the football club. But, and I differ slightly from him here, he did have to pay them; he wasn't able to hide behind insolvency.

In no position to argue with you, CWG, but that's not how it was reported at the time.

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 04:32 PM
I think STF ensured every Hibs fan who was a share holder didn’t lose out and also small local businesses.

I doubt he paid the debts of Avon Inns and the like.

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 04:34 PM
In no position to argue with you, CWG, but that's not how it was reported at the time.

Have to say it was that long ago that I'm doubting my own foggy memory :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 04:36 PM
I think STF ensured every Hibs fan who was a share holder didn’t lose out and also small local businesses.

I doubt he paid the debts of Avon Inns and the like.

He definitely didn't.

Kato
16-11-2018, 04:36 PM
I doubt he paid the debts of Avon Inns and the like.

He didn't.

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 04:38 PM
Who didn’t what?

Pretty sure there are Hibs shareholders on here who only have their shares cause of STF.

Jack
16-11-2018, 04:57 PM
When next year's yamaccounts (which nearly auto corrected to unaccounted :-) are published instead of doing the history of the yams financial shenanigans can we just stick to that years statement and maybe have another thread that starts off with someone asking, once again, for a list of the businesses they bumped.

TIA.

lapsedhibee
16-11-2018, 05:01 PM
When next year's yamaccounts (which nearly auto corrected to unaccounted :-) are published instead of doing the history of the yams financial shenanigans can we just stick to that years statement and maybe have another thread that starts off with someone asking, once again, for a list of the businesses they bumped.

Is there such a thing?

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 05:02 PM
Who didn’t what?

Pretty sure there are Hibs shareholders on here who only have their shares cause of STF.He didn't pay the debts of Avon Inns

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 05:07 PM
When next year's yamaccounts (which nearly auto corrected to unaccounted :-) are published instead of doing the history of the yams financial shenanigans can we just stick to that years statement and maybe have another thread that starts off with someone asking, once again, for a list of the businesses they bumped.

TIA.

Agreed.


He didn't pay the debts of Avon Inns

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Agreed.

Mibbes Aye
16-11-2018, 05:41 PM
Change your settings if it concerns you. It’s only just started a 3rd page on my phone.

Anyway - I think more should be made of the fact that STF paid their poppy bill off. Stays true to our clubs charitable foundations. Good for him for trying to keep his name out of it but I think mote should be made of it.

:agree:

That's the way he rolls though.

Keith_M
16-11-2018, 06:20 PM
...

Pretty sure there are Hibs shareholders on here who only have their shares cause of STF.


As there would have been no Hibs without him buying the club, I'm sure you're right.

There was some talk at the time of him gifting shares to previous small shareholders, but I'm not sure why that would have been necessary (I honestly don't know, not sure of all the circumstances)

FWIW, he could have put Hibs into Administration (or the equivalent at that time) and dumped Hibs' debts, but he chose not to.

CropleyWasGod
16-11-2018, 06:24 PM
As there would have been no Hibs without him buying the club, I'm sure you're right.

There was some talk at the time of him gifting shares to previous small shareholders, but I'm not sure why that would have been necessary (I honestly don't know, not sure of all the circumstances)

FWIW, he could have put Hibs into Administration (or the equivalent at that time) and dumped Hibs' debts, but he chose not to.He did give shares to those who had previously invested in Edinburgh Hibernian, or whatever the Duff scam was called. Those shares were given in the football club, for nothing.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Famous Fiver
16-11-2018, 06:37 PM
While the Chief may want to consign the Poppy episode to history, trivialise it, and use whataboutery to deflect from the fact that HoMFC stiffed Lady Haig Poppy Fund for £185.

That fact, at the time, turned my stomach and still does.

They have no credibility or morals in trumpeting their contributions to the War effort.

A little humility is in order.

Keith_M
16-11-2018, 06:46 PM
He did give shares to those who had previously invested in Edinburgh Hibernian, or whatever the Duff scam was called. Those shares were given in the football club, for nothing.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


Thanks for clarifying, CWG.

:aok:

wallpaperman
16-11-2018, 08:00 PM
While the Chief may want to consign the Poppy episode to history, trivialise it, and use whataboutery to deflect from the fact that HoMFC stiffed Lady Haig Poppy Fund for £185.

That fact, at the time, turned my stomach and still does.

They have no credibility or morals in trumpeting their contributions to the War effort.

A little humility is in order.

This is getting sillier and sillier, some people need to get a perspective on the important things.

It's not like Vlad swiped £185 from a poppy tin and ran away with it chuckling. It was an order for wreaths, presumably like other businesses HMFC were billed. They obviously owed small amounts all over the place as was shown by the creditors list. I doubt they deliberately stiffed the charity any more than the other creditors, they were just a complete chaotic financial basket case.

I feel slightly dirty defending them in any way, but ultimately the charity did not suffer financially in the end.

WhileTheChief..
16-11-2018, 08:21 PM
:top marks

Danderhall Hibs
16-11-2018, 08:23 PM
This is getting sillier and sillier, some people need to get a perspective on the important things.

It's not like Vlad swiped £185 from a poppy tin and ran away with it chuckling. It was an order for wreaths, presumably like other businesses HMFC were billed. They obviously owed small amounts all over the place as was shown by the creditors list. I doubt they deliberately stiffed the charity any more than the other creditors, they were just a complete chaotic financial basket case.

I feel slightly dirty defending them in any way, but ultimately the charity did not suffer financially in the end.

No it didn’t suffer - and all due to STF. I’m yet to hear one of them give him credit (excuse the pun) for it.

wallpaperman
16-11-2018, 08:34 PM
No it didn’t suffer - and all due to STF it I’m yet to hear one of three give him credit (excuse the pun) for it.

You've lost me there. The report I found online in the Herald said a group of Hearts fans paid the debt (and more on top).

If STF paid the charity a sum of money then all well and good. Ironically the charity may have ended up with more money than was ever owed in this sordid little affair.

Tornadoes70
16-11-2018, 10:17 PM
This is getting sillier and sillier, some people need to get a perspective on the important things.

It's not like Vlad swiped £185 from a poppy tin and ran away with it chuckling. It was an order for wreaths, presumably like other businesses HMFC were billed. They obviously owed small amounts all over the place as was shown by the creditors list. I doubt they deliberately stiffed the charity any more than the other creditors, they were just a complete chaotic financial basket case.

I feel slightly dirty defending them in any way, but ultimately the charity did not suffer financially in the end.

Not forgetting of course the fact they 'won' cups one of which was against us while in receipt of Vlad the (alleged) criminal's ill gained illegal loot. Not simply an innocent 'chaotic financial basket case' but one happily spending eye watering sums of mad Vlad's multi millions that was rumored to be crooked while they were spending it.

The 90+2
16-11-2018, 10:20 PM
No it didn’t suffer - and all due to STF. I’m yet to hear one of them give him credit (excuse the pun) for it.

I would love for it to be made public if Sir Tom paid the debt off and knowing the loving generosity he gives and has I wouldn’t be in the slightest surprised.

Jack
16-11-2018, 10:22 PM
No it didn’t suffer - and all due to STF. I’m yet to hear one of them give him credit (excuse the pun) for it.

The word is STF did it on the QT so no-one would know! Not really a surprise there's no credit. They maybe don't know ;-)


You've lost me there. The report I found online in the Herald said a group of Hearts fans paid the debt (and more on top).

If STF paid the charity a sum of money then all well and good. Ironically the charity may have ended up with more money than was ever owed in this sordid little affair.

Indeed!

The 90+2
16-11-2018, 10:23 PM
Not forgetting of course the fact they 'won' cups one of which was against us while in receipt of Vlad the (alleged) criminal's ill gained illegal loot. Not simply an innocent 'chaotic financial basket case' but one happily spending eye watering sums of mad Vlad's multi millions that was rumored to be crooked while they were spending it.

WE WON THE SCOTTISH CUP. Get over it for fk sake!! How can you sit and be so bitter after the weekend we all had? You need to get yourself attached to reality pal.

Bostonhibby
16-11-2018, 10:24 PM
While the Chief may want to consign the Poppy episode to history, trivialise it, and use whataboutery to deflect from the fact that HoMFC stiffed Lady Haig Poppy Fund for £185.

That fact, at the time, turned my stomach and still does.

They have no credibility or morals in trumpeting their contributions to the War effort.

A little humility is in order.A debate I tend to stay out of these days, but the arrogance at the time and the rush by the hordes subsequently to simultaneously sweep the more embarrassing stuff under the carpet whilst seeming to carry on hijacking the people they shafted makes me think it's worth reminding them. It still hurts the ones I know and it really doesn't take much effort.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

Tornadoes70
16-11-2018, 10:30 PM
WE WON THE SCOTTISH CUP. Get over it for fk sake!! How can you sit and be so bitter after the weekend we all had? You need to get yourself attached to reality pal.

Did you actually attend the one in 2012 or at least in the Green end anyway? I did in the Green end and why should I forget attending there and now knowing that their 'benefactor' who lavished them with multi millions of pounds to spend on their then team turned out to be a (alleged) criminal and that the money was bent?

Who are you to dictate to hibs supporters what to remember and what not to?