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View Full Version : Why are we signing short-term jersey fillers?



Scotty Leither
10-11-2018, 01:42 AM
The two guys Mavrias and Nelom i don't think have played sixty minutes combined between the two of them. Would we not have been better spending one wage on another striker or a midfield player that links the play up?

I may be paraphrasing her, but did Leeann Dempster not say we wanted two players for every position? If that's the case, then when we have injuries, the manager would replace like-for-like with the new signings, rather than 're-casting the whole defence, which seems to be the way we've approached the whole of the season thus far.

If these guys aren't good enough to step straight in, then they shouldn't be getting signed...it's redolent of selling Kevin Thomson and then signing the likes of Paddy Cregg, Joe Keenan, et al. Purely a numbers game to stop the natives getting restless...does the club not set its sights a bit higher these days?

Hi Heid Yin
10-11-2018, 01:57 AM
The two guys Mavrias and Nelom i don't think have played sixty minutes combined between the two of them. Would we not have been better spending one wage on another striker or a midfield player that links the play up?

I may be paraphrasing her, but did Leeann Dempster not say we wanted two players for every position? If that's the case, then when we have injuries, the manager would replace like-for-like with the new signings, rather than 're-casting the whole defence, which seems to be the way we've approached the whole of the season thus far.

If these guys aren't good enough to step straight in, then they shouldn't be getting signed...it's redolent of selling Kevin Thomson and then signing the likes of Paddy Cregg, Joe Keenan, et al. Purely a numbers game to stop the natives getting restless...does the club not set its sights a bit higher these days?

:top marks

Wheat Hound
10-11-2018, 01:59 AM
Add to the list Eardley, Eckersley, Rherras and several other wastes of wages.

Not convinced by our much vaunted recruitment team.

Scotty Leither
10-11-2018, 02:16 AM
Methinks the wage cap is still very much in play.

The Aberdeen programme tonight actually listed all the "ins" and "outs" at Easter Road since the summer, and we're actually down on numbers (and quality) since last season; tellingly two of our highest earners in Mcginn and Mcgeough left, so surely we've a surplus in wages too, along with the big transfer fees and season ticket sales?

If these guys I've mentioned leave in January having hardly kicked a ball in earnest, then serious questions need asked of our recruitment team/Board as to what our signing policy actually is?

EH54
10-11-2018, 02:58 AM
Methinks the wage cap is still very much in play.

The Aberdeen programme tonight actually listed all the "ins" and "outs" at Easter Road since the summer, and we're actually down on numbers (and quality) since last season; tellingly two of our highest earners in Mcginn and Mcgeough left, so surely we've a surplus in wages too, along with the big transfer fees and season ticket sales?

If these guys I've mentioned leave in January having hardly kicked a ball in earnest, then serious questions need asked of our recruitment team/Board as to what our signing policy actually is?

Now we are back in the premier league, and stable again the foot can come off the peddle. We settle for mediocrity, always have, always will.

DetroitHibs
10-11-2018, 04:53 AM
Under this board we will never go anywhere. It's been the same every single season. There's a reason we constantly have "undisclosed" transfer fees. The board don't want to see exactly what we bring in compared to the cheap fees we pay. Lennon should have had two million to invest in the squad, but ended up with peanuts. Take a look at all our signings. We sign players that aren't good enough and can't get a game for there current clubs. The last time we actually signed a player that was flying and in form for his club was McGinn.

Heisenberg
10-11-2018, 06:06 AM
Under this board we will never go anywhere. It's been the same every single season. There's a reason we constantly have "undisclosed" transfer fees. The board don't want to see exactly what we bring in compared to the cheap fees we pay. Lennon should have had two million to invest in the squad, but ended up with peanuts. Take a look at all our signings. We sign players that aren't good enough and can't get a game for there current clubs. The last time we actually signed a player that was flying and in form for his club was McGinn.

So by that reasoning you wouldn’t want us signing Scott Allan?

DetroitHibs
10-11-2018, 06:19 AM
So by that reasoning you wouldn’t want us signing Scott Allan?

Use some common sense. We know what Scott Allan can do in a Hibs shirt, of course I'd want us to sign Scott Allan. Also I didn't say anywhere that we shouldn't sign players that don't get a game or play for there clubs. I just think a club with our size and stauture should be looking to sign players that are good quality players and are on the up from there current clubs, not the opposite. Reason why we don't is because we'd have to pay a decent transfer fee, and as history goes, Rod and Co don't like paying transfer fees.

Since90+2
10-11-2018, 06:22 AM
So by that reasoning you wouldn’t want us signing Scott Allan?

Or Kamberi or Efe or Mallan?

Heisenberg
10-11-2018, 06:29 AM
Use some common sense. We know what Scott Allan can do in a Hibs shirt, of course I'd want us to sign Scott Allan. Also I didn't say anywhere that we shouldn't sign players that don't get a game or play for there clubs. I just think a club with our size and stauture should be looking to sign players that are good quality players and are on the up from there current clubs, not the opposite. Reason why we don't is because we'd have to pay a decent transfer fee, and as history goes, Rod and Co don't like paying transfer fees.

When we initially signed Allan he was a free agent having been an absolute failure down south. Kamberi was also not getting a game for Zurich. Boyle was warming the bench at Dundee.

We need to take a chance on these players because we rarely get the chance to sign a McGinn level of player for 100k. It’s the only market we can afford to operate in. A £1m player would want a £1m players wages. It’s not as easy as just splashing out a big transfer fee. We paid three transfer fees in the summer and at a guess i’d say they were all over 100k, which is big money in our league.

DetroitHibs
10-11-2018, 08:12 AM
When we initially signed Allan he was a free agent having been an absolute failure down south. Kamberi was also not getting a game for Zurich. Boyle was warming the bench at Dundee.

We need to take a chance on these players because we rarely get the chance to sign a McGinn level of player for 100k. It’s the only market we can afford to operate in. A £1m player would want a £1m players wages. It’s not as easy as just splashing out a big transfer fee. We paid three transfer fees in the summer and at a guess i’d say they were all over 100k, which is big money in our league.

I'm not saying we should be spending £1m on players, but investing £400,000-£600,000 should be doable, especially after the money that was brought in this season. You only need to look at our league table average from the past ten years or so to see that this penny pinching attitude achieves nothing. In fact it was one of the main reasons we spent three years in the championship. I have no idea how fans can be happy with our constant underachieving :confused:

Looking at the stats since 2000, and taking away our league positions from the championship, we are an average bottom six club. With the backing of the fans and resources, it's absolutely disgraceful. Yet it's been the same Petrie and Farmer overseeing this constant underachieving.

Beefster
10-11-2018, 08:17 AM
So the question in the op is “why are we not signing a fourth/fifth striker instead of a second left-back?”.

Amazingly, folk are agreeing.

Mr_F
10-11-2018, 08:28 AM
Now we are back in the premier league, and stable again the foot can come off the peddle. We settle for mediocrity, always have, always will.

That’s it there

Scotty Leither
10-11-2018, 08:42 AM
So the question in the op is “why are we not signing a fourth/fifth striker instead of a second left-back?”.

Amazingly, folk are agreeing.

Not quite what I said...oh that we had four or five strikers to call on.

It just seems to me there is, and always has been a stubborn refusal to meet the expectations of the fans in the way of signing players that are at least the equal of, or better than what's already there.

The Board can't have it both ways; we'll not replace Mcginn and McGeough like for like, I accept that, but equally bringing in out of contract, or free agents that the manager patently doesn't rate as first-team starters or they would have been straight in the team isn't a coherent signing policy either.

Leith Green
10-11-2018, 08:46 AM
So the question in the op is “why are we not signing a fourth/fifth striker instead of a second left-back?”.

Amazingly, folk are agreeing.

The big problem we have before we get onto the back up signings, are the players lennon has signed as part of his starting eleven. So far this season none of his signings except bogdan in most his appearances and milligan at times so far look the real deal. Mallan has been hot and cold , yes he scores goals from distance but im unconvinced about what else he offers us. Hyndman looks soft , and generally flatters to deceive his end prudict for a creative player isnt good enough. Horgan has had a good game here and there but generally been ineffective , again not good enough for one of our major summer signings. Agyepong hasnt played enough so it would be harsh to judge. Whilst I understand replacing the midfield we had last season was a ridiculously difficult task, it has to be said that lennon looks to have missed by a mile with his replacements.

Last season i thought the same with his summer recruitment, not good enough and needing fixed by January

Diclonius
10-11-2018, 08:48 AM
Now we are back in the premier league, and stable again the foot can come off the peddle. We settle for mediocrity, always have, always will.

In one.

We only spend when there's an imminent threat of long term loss of money. When we've got safe mid table prospects, it's back to normal.

The Modfather
10-11-2018, 08:49 AM
So the question in the op is “why are we not signing a fourth/fifth striker instead of a second left-back?”.

Amazingly, folk are agreeing.

Beefster, you’re a poster I enjoy reading. You make a lot of good points, particularly in calling out the extremes we get on here after a defeat, or even a win. However your sometimes glib, almost patronising, tone doesn’t always help and at times your point could be made more constructively IMO.

I think the opening post has the bones of a point re some of our signings and the apparent reluctance to give them a chance. Not all signings will work out but it is the likes of Rheras & Big Dave type signings that are baffling. Why sign them and never give them a chance. Neleom and Mavrias look like they could be the next two we’ll know nothing about when they leave. Could we not just promote two youngsters, even if they’re not ready, than sign new players who we won’t ever give a chance to?

danhibees1875
10-11-2018, 08:52 AM
We have invested though, around the amount - if not more- that you're asking. Horgan, Maclaren, Kamberi, Mallan all came with a fee this summer - all probably around the 200k mark, so c£800k was spent in the summer as you've requested. We're also going to be paying reasonable wages to these players and a few others.

We don't finish each financial year with millions of pounds worth of profit and think "ah we could have signed someone then" - we'll have a very detailed budgeting process and know what we can spend and do so aiming to break even - slightly over spending over the last few years. There isn't any long term solution there to simply spend more without ending up in trouble.

Our stats looking poor from 2000 was bolstered significantly by taking players who were "doing well" at their current teams that weren't good enough and then them not finding that next gear at Hibs - Craig, Robertson, Nelson, Nish, Heffernan, Van Zantan, John Rankin, Clancy, Cairney, Maybury. They're not all players that done awful at Hibs, but I'd rather have the McGeoch, Mallan, Kamberi, Ambrose, Stokes, Henderson, Cummings, etc who aren't able to get a game for their current clubs.

The team that done well recently only really had McGinn as a player that you've rightly pointed out was doing well and then came to Hibs and pushed on - the others were struggling at their teams or came through our youth. The last time we had a good run 05-08ish was predominantly the same too, our own youth complimented with Jones, Boozy, Stewart, Zemmama, Benji, Stokes who don't fit into the model you've suggested.

We've got the core of a good team at the moment, not every recruitment is going to be brilliant but I think we're more than capable of pushing on and gathering momentum in November and then tackling the "tougher" games in December with confidence. This team will end up in the right part of the table. :aok:

Vini1875
10-11-2018, 08:57 AM
Not quite what I said...oh that we had four or five strikers to call on.

It just seems to me there is, and always has been a stubborn refusal to meet the expectations of the fans in the way of signing players that are at least the equal of, or better than what's already there.

The Board can't have it both ways; we'll not replace Mcginn and McGeough like for like, I accept that, but equally bringing in out of contract, or free agents that the manager patently doesn't rate as first-team starters or they would have been straight in the team isn't a coherent signing policy either.

Unfortunately the fans can't have it both ways either. I doubt that many fans really understand what it costs to run a football club. Every club brings in players who don't work out and we havehad our fair share.

The team is weaker than it was in the second half of last season which most of us expected and now we are on a poor run, however that run has been Celtic away, hearts away, Aberdeen away and St. Johnstone home. Aberdeen and St. Johnstone have both been on great runs recently, Celtic have just hit some form and hearts are top of the league.

Add to that the stop start season and Lenny trying to gel players into a consistent team, which has all sorts of injuries to key players. I still think there is more to come from this squad of players.

Leith Green
10-11-2018, 08:58 AM
In one.

We only spend when there's an imminent threat of long term loss of money. When we've got safe mid table prospects, it's back to normal.

Im not convinced its the budget thats the problem here. Last summer Lennon signed stokes , whittaker , swanson , slivka , murray ... with the exception of murray they were all signed on good money. Its the same this season , poor recruitment by the manager.

Nicho87
10-11-2018, 09:01 AM
For me this season might be the one where our peak begin to comes back down. Scottish cup feeling can only hold fans for so long who didn’t have a season ticket before. A mediocre squad and a poor league finish will make sure there are no more record season tickets

90+2
10-11-2018, 09:04 AM
In one.

We only spend when there's an imminent threat of long term loss of money. When we've got safe mid table prospects, it's back to normal.

I don’t think Lennon would be here if that was the case.

Beefster
10-11-2018, 09:10 AM
Beefster, you’re a poster I enjoy reading. You make a lot of good points, particularly in calling out the extremes we get on here after a defeat, or even a win. However your sometimes glib, almost patronising, tone doesn’t always help and at times your point could be made more constructively IMO.

I think the opening post has the bones of a point re some of our signings and the apparent reluctance to give them a chance. Not all signings will work out but it is the likes of Rheras & Big Dave type signings that are baffling. Why sign them and never give them a chance. Neleom and Mavrias look like they could be the next two we’ll know nothing about when they leave. Could we not just promote two youngsters, even if they’re not ready, than sign new players who we won’t ever give a chance to?

I am deliberately obtuse sometimes (although sometimes not so deliberately!). You are correct though - the whole cycle of ‘we’re amazing/pish’ is difficult for me to comprehend and/or read passively.

The obvious answer to your question is ‘acceptable cover’. Better to sign a short-term internationalist than rely on a young player that the club doesn’t think is ready to step up (or may be developmentally detrimental to him if he plays pish and gets crucified for it). Maybe the club have more faith in the likes of Shaw and Lewis Allan to step up/provide cover for Kamberi/MacLaren/Boyle than they do whichever youngsters we have for the fullback positions.

Scotty Leither
10-11-2018, 09:17 AM
Unfortunately the fans can't have it both ways either. I doubt that many fans really understand what it costs to run a football club. Every club brings in players who don't work out and we havehad our fair share.

The team is weaker than it was in the second half of last season which most of us expected and now we are on a poor run, however that run has been Celtic away, hearts away, Aberdeen away and St. Johnstone home. Aberdeen and St. Johnstone have both been on great runs recently, Celtic have just hit some form and hearts are top of the league.

Add to that the stop start season and Lenny trying to gel players into a consistent team, which has all sorts of injuries to key players. I still think there is more to come from this squad of players.

We've had more than our fair share of dross, more than most clubs, and our player churn of bang ordinary players is what culminated in our relegation to the fish and chips league.

In that vein it's a discredited policy, and we run the risk of it repeating itself by signing players that rack up 6-10 games for the club, make zero impact, and then move on again.

I've had a gutful of the Rowan Vines, Kuqis, Agogos, and I thought we'd moved on from there.

We've a heavy programme of games coming up with a light squad; I'll venture that if we have a poor return from these games, then money will be spent in January as our Board have previous there too in all of a sudden funding a bit of cash when the heat's on.

We didn't get to 14k season tickets overnight and a general feeling that the club is at long last on the up, and it was a long road getting there; but the notorious parsimony embedded in the DNA of Petrie and co will be very quickly undone it they're not careful.

...and the day we make a case for a defeat to mighty St Johnstone being acceptable is the day we should all turn it in.

LustForLeith
10-11-2018, 09:21 AM
The two guys Mavrias and Nelom i don't think have played sixty minutes combined between the two of them. Would we not have been better spending one wage on another striker or a midfield player that links the play up?

I may be paraphrasing her, but did Leeann Dempster not say we wanted two players for every position? If that's the case, then when we have injuries, the manager would replace like-for-like with the new signings, rather than 're-casting the whole defence, which seems to be the way we've approached the whole of the season thus far.

If these guys aren't good enough to step straight in, then they shouldn't be getting signed...it's redolent of selling Kevin Thomson and then signing the likes of Paddy Cregg, Joe Keenan, et al. Purely a numbers game to stop the natives getting restless...does the club not set its sights a bit higher these days?

Spot on

Centre Hawf
10-11-2018, 09:22 AM
Im not convinced its the budget thats the problem here. Last summer Lennon signed stokes , whittaker , swanson , slivka , murray ... with the exception of murray they were all signed on good money. Its the same this season , poor recruitment by the manager.

Except for January this year I don’t think Lennon has actually ever used a window to improve our squad properly from what was there before.

When he came in we signed Brian Graham and Shinnie. Neither really did it for us. Only Ofir and Holt we’re capable signings.

Summer last year we signed Murray, Dave, Stokes, Slivka, Swanson, Whittaker, Efe was kept. Except from Efe the rest are either gone for being not good enough, or not contributing anything to making us a better team.

We can’t continue to have shocking summer windows and go mad trying to fix it in January. We’re writing off half a season nearly.

Stuart93
10-11-2018, 09:26 AM
For me this season might be the one where our peak begin to comes back down. Scottish cup feeling can only hold fans for so long who didn’t have a season ticket before. A mediocre squad and a poor league finish will make sure there are no more record season tickets

Have to agree, one mediocre season would be enough to probably ensure we don’t get anywhere near ST records.

JimBHibees
10-11-2018, 09:30 AM
It is called getting cover if we hadn't done it guess what the club would be getting slaughtered also.

Scotty Leither
10-11-2018, 09:35 AM
It is called getting cover if we hadn't done it guess what the club would be getting slaughtered also.

Back in the day, if you signed a player it usually meant they came straight in the team or were signed to put pressure on the guys in possession.

We're nowhere near that just now, and are paying the price for a poor window in August. A bit city club that belies its status more often than not.

Iain G
10-11-2018, 09:41 AM
Spot on

Worth noting that they are both full international players!

B.H.F.C
10-11-2018, 09:56 AM
I’d like to see Nelom get a start, if fit, in our next game.

I thought Stevenson played the best football of his career in the second half of last season. He has been nowhere near that level this season.

I think we could do with freshening it up on that side of the park.

superfurryhibby
10-11-2018, 10:14 AM
Maybe if our would be wealthy investors showed the same benevolence towrds the club as their equivalents at the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen then we could sign better than the jersey fillers?

Talk is cheap, especially on here.