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Winston Ingram
09-11-2018, 10:02 PM
Wtf do we play this?

We look more shaky at the back and barely threaten going forward it leaves us short handed up top.

We’ve not got wing backs capable of playing it. Lewis and SDG are good full backs but don’t have the quality going forward.

When Boyle plays there, his threat going forward diminishes greatly and he also usually leaves Efe greatly exposed.

Also we don’t have have McGeouch, McGinn or Allan in there anymore so have little or no creativity.

I like Mallan, Slivka and Milligan but I feel sorry for them as the only forward pass they had tonight was Kamberi. MacLaren is too slow to get in behind, you can’t play it into his feet as it bounces off him or the CB’s just move him out the way.

Get back to 433, bin MacLaren and a centre back and we might look like a football team again.

Hibeesmad
09-11-2018, 10:04 PM
With the international break hopefully we can see Gray and Hanlon back into a back four for the next game

MWHIBBIES
09-11-2018, 10:05 PM
Because we our form last season after Christmas playing it was incredible?

truehibernian
09-11-2018, 10:06 PM
Selection of players and formation was decent tonight, couldn't really criticise it. The players should have been sharp and be pressing from the off and they weren't. That's the bigger worry after Neil Lennon saying he wanted a reaction - the reaction he got first half was lethargy.

B.H.F.C
09-11-2018, 10:12 PM
That wasn’t the problem tonight. I thought it was about our strongest available team.

Play any formation you want, but if players can’t play a ten yard pass what chance do you have? And there were players there tonight, Boyle in particular, who put in nowhere near the required level of effort.

Winston Ingram
09-11-2018, 10:19 PM
Because we our form last season after Christmas playing it was incredible?

I don’t want to point out the blatantly obvious but have you noticed the entirety of that midfield 3 has left?

Stuart93
09-11-2018, 10:32 PM
I don’t want to point out the blatantly obvious but have you noticed the entirety of that midfield 3 has left?

And not been adequately replaced

Real Emerald
09-11-2018, 10:36 PM
With the international break hopefully we can see Gray and Hanlon back into a back four for the next game

Our injuries never seem to clear up quickly, Gray isn’t getting any younger and Hanlon’s continual absence and long term lay offs each season is starting to worry me. Hibs bad form seems to go hand in hand with Hanlon’s absences.

truehibernian
09-11-2018, 10:40 PM
Get Niklas Gunnarson back on loan :greengrin:aok: (only my wish, no info :greengrin loved the big guy).

We really do miss Hanlon, shows every time he is out. SDG injuries are almost accepted, which makes not playing Mavrias or getting an established deputy in sooner very surprising and perplexing.

lyonhibs
09-11-2018, 10:40 PM
With a 4-4-2, which 2 do people play in CM out of interest?

Let's assume everyone's fit. Mallan and Milligan?

SDG needs to get fit rapido or Lennon needs to trust this Greek lad before him and Nelom disappear into the Never Never Land of "loan signings who made no difference whatsoever"

MWHIBBIES
09-11-2018, 10:47 PM
I don’t want to point out the blatantly obvious but have you noticed the entirety of that midfield 3 has left?

I have yes. You know 433 involves 3 players in midfield as well?

Winston Ingram
09-11-2018, 11:03 PM
I have yes. You know 433 involves 3 players in midfield as well?

��

It also involves 1 less defender and one more forward which increases the attacking threat as proven in the games we’ve played it����

beensaidbefore
09-11-2018, 11:06 PM
Get Niklas Gunnarson back on loan :greengrin:aok: (only my wish, no info :greengrin loved the big guy).

We really do miss Hanlon, shows every time he is out. SDG injuries are almost accepted, which makes not playing Mavrias or getting an established deputy in sooner very surprising and perplexing.

We really do miss Hanlon.

Is there someone out there who can tell if we lose less games when Hanlon plays, vs when he hasn't?

My money is on we lose less when he plays.

MWHIBBIES
09-11-2018, 11:09 PM
��

It also involves 1 less defender and one more forward which increases the attacking threat as proven in the games we’ve played it����Depends on how it is played really. Many teams had great success with 352. It has 2 strikers. 433 doesn't. I'm not sure we can really pull either of them off right now. Although 433 worked well away at Dundee.

bookert
09-11-2018, 11:10 PM
We really do miss Hanlon.

Is there someone out there who can tell us games won when Hanlon plays, vs when he hasn't?

My money is on we lose less when he plays.
Agree with this, in a back three need a left sided centre back. Hanlon imho is one of the best, we miss him massively.

beensaidbefore
09-11-2018, 11:14 PM
Agree with this, in a back three need a left sided centre back. Hanlon imho is one of the best, we miss him massively.

I changed my post as I realised I was comparing two different things, games won, and betting on not losing. Doh😂

Maybe both are true?

cabbageandribs1875
09-11-2018, 11:22 PM
3 at the back is fine if our midfield consists of Allan, McGinn and McGeouch, but it doesn't...so stop playing it please :greengrin

Winston Ingram
09-11-2018, 11:24 PM
Depends on how it is played really. Many teams had great success with 352. It has 2 strikers. 433 doesn't. I'm not sure we can really pull either of them off right now. Although 433 worked well away at Dundee.

Who?

Genuinely can only think of Juventus that have ever won anything in recent times.

It was fashionable for a while in the 90’s but can’t think of anyone who won anything with it.

We could easily pull of a 433

Bogdan, Efe, McGregor, Porteous, Lewis. Milligan, Slivka, Mallan. Horgan, Kamberi, Boyle.

Gets Boyle in a position where he is an attacking threat and adds the threat of Horgan.

MWHIBBIES
09-11-2018, 11:30 PM
Who?

Genuinely can only think of Juventus that have ever won anything in recent times.

It was fashionable for a while in the 90’s but can’t think of anyone who won anything with it.

We could easily pull of a 433

Bogdan, Efe, McGregor, Porteous, Lewis. Milligan, Slivka, Mallan. Horgan, Kamberi, Boyle.

Gets Boyle in a position where he is an attacking threat and adds the threat of Horgan.


Yes exactly. Juventus. Chelsea won the league with it. City have played it at times under Pep. Holland at the 2014 world cup. Chile played 3 defenders to win the copa america. Hibs won a Scottish cup starting with 352 in the final and finished 4th last season.

Every formation is about execution. Far too easy to just blame the idea and not the execution of it. If Hibs were playing well and all players playing to their potential and still losing then we can talk about the formation.

Thats pretty much exactly the same team that played dreadfully tonight. It really wouldn't have made a difference.

Criswell
09-11-2018, 11:33 PM
Not sure why people are having a go at the defence. They have only conceded 2 goals in the last 3 games. Hardly a disaster. The real problem is that we haven't scored a single goal!

scotia44
09-11-2018, 11:49 PM
Because we our form last season after Christmas playing it was incredible?

We had 3 midfielders who could control games then
You need a 4 at the back when the midfield aren't contributin

EH54
10-11-2018, 02:41 AM
I don't honestly think we would be any better in another formation. We need better to partner flo. And we need another 2 midfielders to compliment Milligan. We are soft as ***** in there.

Hibeesmad
10-11-2018, 02:48 AM
4-4-2 of Bogdan, Gray, Ambrose, Hanlon, Stevenson, Boyle, Milligan, Mallan, Agyepong, Kamberi, MacLaren would be our strongest 11 imo

EH54
10-11-2018, 02:55 AM
4-4-2 of Bogdan, Gray, Ambrose, Hanlon, Stevenson, Boyle, Milligan, Mallan, Agyepong, Kamberi, MacLaren would be our strongest 11 imo

Honestly don't think it makes much of a difference. We are so slow and tepid in midfield it's unreal. We need better than maclaren. We need a box to box aggressive midfield player to play beside Mallan and Milligan, preferably a left sided player for balance. We looked away with it at the moment. Not much between the sides tonight but Aberdeen are crap Aswell.

Jumbo
10-11-2018, 03:05 AM
Get Niklas Gunnarson back on loan :greengrin:aok: (only my wish, no info :greengrin loved the big guy).

I believe his contract at Djurgården finishes on Sunday and he’s not signed new one 😉

Winston Ingram
10-11-2018, 06:29 AM
Not sure why people are having a go at the defence. They have only conceded 2 goals in the last 3 games. Hardly a disaster. The real problem is that we haven't scored a single goal!

I’m not sure people are. They’re having a go at the fact that extra man in there is taking away from our attacking play.

Winston Ingram
11-11-2018, 04:41 PM
Motherwell H 3-0, 3-5-2
St Johnstone A 1-1, 3-5-2
Aberdeen H 1-1, 3-5-2
Linvingston A 1-2, 3-5-2
Kilmarnock H 3-2, 4-3-3
Dundee A 3-0, 4-3-3
St Mirren A 1-0, 4-3-3
Hamilton H 6-0, 4-3-3
Celtic A 2-4, 3-5-2
Hearts A 0-0, 3-5-2
St Johnstone H 0-1, 4-3-3
Aberdeen A 0-1, 3-5-2

4-3-3 P5 W4 L1 D0 F13 A3
3-5-2 P7 W1 L3 D3 F8 A9

Dancehibs
11-11-2018, 04:44 PM
4-4-2 of Bogdan, Gray, Ambrose, Hanlon, Stevenson, Boyle, Milligan, Mallan, Agyepong, Kamberi, MacLaren would be our strongest 11 imo
Milligan and Mallan can’t play as a two. No pace. And can’t link the play

Smartie
11-11-2018, 05:04 PM
From McLeish's team with Sauzee and Latapy through to the team of the second half of last season, I'd say much of the best football I've ever seen Hibs play has been with 3 at the back.

Winston Ingram
11-11-2018, 05:08 PM
Yes exactly. Juventus. Chelsea won the league with it. City have played it at times under Pep. Holland at the 2014 world cup. Chile played 3 defenders to win the copa america. Hibs won a Scottish cup starting with 352 in the final and finished 4th last season.

Every formation is about execution. Far too easy to just blame the idea and not the execution of it. If Hibs were playing well and all players playing to their potential and still losing then we can talk about the formation.

Thats pretty much exactly the same team that played dreadfully tonight. It really wouldn't have made a difference.

Chelsea won nothing with a 3-5-2. They played a 3-4-3 with Hazard and Willian on the wings, which meant the wing backs didn’t have sole responsibility for the flanks. Chelsea moved to 3-5-2 at the start of last season and their form fell off a cliff and they reverted back to 3-4-3.

City use 3 at the back at home very occasionally against the cannon fodder who park the bus and they know won’t attack them. That’s not 3-5-2 either.

Hibs were 2-1 down in the Scottish Cup Final playing 3-5-2 and won the game by taking off Liam Fontaine and replacing him a certain Liam Henderson.

So your many teams that have success with a 3-5-2 appears only to be Juventus👍🏻

MWHIBBIES
11-11-2018, 05:13 PM
Chelsea won nothing with a 3-5-2. They played a 3-4-3 with Hazard and Willian on the wings, which meant the wing backs didn’t have sole responsibility for the flanks. Chelsea moved to 3-5-2 at the start of last season and their form fell off a cliff and they reverted back to 3-4-3.

City use 3 at the back at home very occasionally against the cannon fodder who park the bus and they know won’t attack them. That’s not 3-5-2 either.

Hibs were 2-1 down in the Scottish Cup Final playing 3-5-2 and won the game by taking off Liam Fontaine and replacing him a certain Liam Henderson.

So your many teams that have success with a 3-5-2 appears only to be Juventus👍🏻
The thread is titled 3 defenders 👍 all those teams have had success with 3 defenders 👍

Winston Ingram
11-11-2018, 05:15 PM
The thread is titled 3 defenders 👍 all those teams have had success with 3 defenders 👍

I was replying to your post which said ‘Many teams had great success with 352.’

MWHIBBIES
11-11-2018, 05:17 PM
I was replying to your post which said ‘Many teams had great success with 352.’

Well okay, 352 and variants. It's a good formation that we played brilliantly with for months. Form of players doesn't change that.

Winston Ingram
11-11-2018, 05:21 PM
Well okay, 352 and variants. It's a good formation that we played brilliantly with for months. Form of players doesn't change that.

As I said in an earlier post, the entirety of the midfield 3 have left and they were massive contributors to that success. We wouldn’t have gone on a run like that with the 3 we have in there.

We have won 1 league game this season that we have started with a 3-5-2 and that was Motherwell on the opening day.

Gmack7
11-11-2018, 05:29 PM
352 is a good system if your wingbacks constantly beat their opponents to supply good service to the strikers. ours dont unfortunately

Winston Ingram
11-11-2018, 05:32 PM
352 is a good system if your wingbacks constantly beat their opponents to supply good service to the strikers. ours dont unfortunately

Tbf, ours (Lewis & SDG) are great fullbacks but not wing backs and do not have the craft to fulfill the attacking side to any great effect

MWHIBBIES
11-11-2018, 05:34 PM
As I said in an earlier post, the entirety of the midfield 3 have left and they were massive contributors to that success. We wouldn’t have gone on a run like that with the 3 we have in there.

We have won 1 league game this season that we have started with a 3-5-2 and that was Motherwell on the opening day.So the formation is fine, Hibs execution of it isn't?

Winston Ingram
11-11-2018, 05:44 PM
So the formation is fine, Hibs execution of it isn't?

Absolutely not. Hibs used it fairly well for 13 games from February and we won 7 of those games, which isn’t exactly brilliant.

I’m just saying we were more effective than we are now with it.

J-C
11-11-2018, 06:24 PM
Well okay, 352 and variants. It's a good formation that we played brilliantly with for months. Form of players doesn't change that.

It worked ok because we had a superb midfield after January, our midfield this season is weak and lightweight and at the moment not good enough. Celtic have strolled the league with 4 at the back and I'm watching Man C beating United playing 4-3-3.

Iain G
11-11-2018, 06:40 PM
With a 4-4-2, which 2 do people play in CM out of interest?

Let's assume everyone's fit. Mallan and Milligan?

SDG needs to get fit rapido or Lennon needs to trust this Greek lad before him and Nelom disappear into the Never Never Land of "loan signings who made no difference whatsoever"

Being pedantic neither of the two international fullbacks are on loan.

MWHIBBIES
11-11-2018, 06:41 PM
It worked ok because we had a superb midfield after January, our midfield this season is weak and lightweight and at the moment not good enough. Celtic have strolled the league with 4 at the back and I'm watching Man C beating United playing 4-3-3.

What do Celtic and man city have to do with Hibs? Why would 433 work if midfield is our problem? It's the same midfield setup

J-C
11-11-2018, 06:46 PM
What do Celtic and man city have to do with Hibs? Why would 433 work if midfield is our problem? It's the same midfield setup

They're both winning teams who very very seldom play 3 at the back, it's become overly trendy to play this way but it only works when you have the personnel to do so. It suited us last year because Gray got injured and Boyle dropped back into wingback role, this allowed us to have 2 up top but we had an exceptional midfield also.
4-3-3 works because it gives you a solid base at the back which most players are comfortable with, a midfield of Mallan, Milligan and Slivka should work with Boyle right, Horgan left and Kamberi.

JimBHibees
12-11-2018, 07:18 AM
Because we our form last season after Christmas playing it was incredible?

That's what I thought our best run of last season was with that system.

Winston Ingram
12-11-2018, 07:27 AM
That's what I thought our best run of last season was with that system.

As has been said several times on this thread, it was a completely different midfield.

On top of that the way people talk about that period of form, ye'd think we'd won every game. We won 6 out of 12 playing that way. We beat Celtic playing a back 4.